Who Struggles for Parent to be Proud of Them?

[Turkish]

Ten years ago, even being the primary provider for my family of three, my mom telegraphed that I wasn't good enough as I hadn't reached the educational goals she desired of me. She sabotaged me in multiple ways as I was graduating high school, and kept claiming me as a dependent while telling me to get financial aid (denied), but that's another story.

She's passed on over a year now. Rather than being laid off, I've secured another job internally in another group with a big raise that I wasn't expecting. I've long punched above my weight. The money would blow her mind. Or maybe not, as she entered my room in 2013 and told me that I should go back to school to be a nurse, a profession that as an RN she complained about since I was a child. Then Not-Ex. 2 babies, primary provider. Yeah, right...

I'm thankful that I'm able to land safely. My friends are happy for me. I also feel a hole, like I want my mom to be happy for me to share the news... while at the same time wondering if she'd downplay it and me as still not being good enough or successful.

In 2013, her comments bugged me and hurt me, despite sometimes telling me that she was proud. It was the switches that were confusing, going back to high school when she'd take credit for others telling me that I was a great kid, ans showing up for my awards,, but privately the opposite to me. "Everyone thinks you're so great, but I know the real Turkish!"

Mom: I've "made it," far beyond what you predicted (negatively at the time), and I wish you were still here to talk. I told you in 1996 when I moved to another state that I forgave you, but I wasn't entirely sincere. I'm not sure that I am entirely sincere in 2022, and still resent that you told me that you did the best that you could. Maybe that's true... and I've hoped to do better by my kids, your grandchildren. I wish that you were still here, but despite it all, I've turned out OK, and maybe that's the best that I could do."

[zachira]

The first building block of self esteem is how we are treated by our parents. You have accomplished so many things that most parents would be proud of: being a great father to your children, having many friends, helping others on this site for many years, and being professionally successful. It is normal to want to be seen for who we are by our parents, whether they are dead or alive, and have parents who are proud of the adults we have become. Having parents who could not love us in healthy ways is a lifelong sorrow. The feelings you are having are normal, and these types of feelings come up for many us on PSI from time to time, and for me even though my parents are deceased.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Mom: I've "made it," far beyond what you predicted (negatively at the time), and I wish you were still here to talk. I told you in 1996 when I moved to another state that I forgave you, but I wasn't entirely sincere. I'm not sure that I am entirely sincere in 2022, and still resent that you told me that you did the best that you could. Maybe that's true... and I've hoped to do better by my kids, your grandchildren. I wish that you were still here, but despite it all, I've turned out OK, and maybe that's the best that I could do."

I am touched and moved by those words, by your capacity to still feel hopeful and love toward your mother. I don't feel anger in those words, just compassion and openness. To be able to remain open this way, while still being able to acknowledge those parts of you that are resentful, takes a lot of strength and resilience.

I often let anger consume me when I think of my mother. I don't remember her telling me I wouldn't be able to do things, or that I was a failure or anything, it's more that this is what I got from her constant neglect when I was young, and later in life, from her rolling eyes. My mother doesn't talk much, and to be honest, I am not sure what she truly thinks about me. I think she is proud of us today, but part of me feel it's more about what she can tell others and their reaction about what we do, than what she truly feels.

Example, when I finished top of my class in my chosen field (a men's profession), she didn't understand it and didn't seem to care at all. Then she told my aunt, and my aunt, who is a math teacher, was impressed and told her how wowed she was at my achievements, how hard it actually was to achieve that. And my mom told me : wow, this aunt is really proud of you! My mother wasn't proud but she felt happy that someone else, with whom she competed all her life, was impressed by my achievements. I chalked it up to her not understanding what I was doing in my profession, but now part of me thinks most of her "congratulations" are more about her than about me. And on my side : I didn't even celebrate my achievements. I felt happy, but still lacking somehow. Seeing my name on the honor board felt... Good but also, I was also deeply sad, thinking back on it. I wonder why I felt this pain now... Maybe because part of me knew no one else would truly care?

The only thing she told me she was proud about were my mothering skills, how I paused my career to stay at home and raise my children. She once admitted she thought I was a better mother than she was (not a very high threshold to beat If I am completely honest). But this then gave lieu to competition. Whenever she would visit, she would compete for my daughter's attention. If my daughter came to me for a hug, and I'd make her laugh, she would immediately come and grab the attention, and go overboard to make my daughter laugh, and her attempts were often so intense, that my daughter would actually seems very uncomfortable.

I now think competition and being proud of someone are not mutually exclusive, especially for someone with BPD. But her own lack of self esteem means that, even when she feels proud about something she understands, she will still be critical, roll her eyes and try to undermine me. Not because she thinks I am not good at what I do, but because she needs to be better, everything is a competition to her...

But then : this is a daughter-mother relationship and it is very different than son-mother relationship.

All this to say: if it wasn't for all the anger I feel, I think the most vulnerable part of me, does indeed, not feel good enough.

[Notwendy]

Turkish,
You've done amazingly well, even if your mother could not acknowledge it.

It's her projection, not you.

My parents encouraged me to do well in school, and seek out a job, something many parents do. Nothing wrong with that. I was also intrinsically motivated to become financially independent of them. However, I understand the wish to be recognized for "making it" from parents.

But for BPD mother, it was less about me and more about validating her. If we did something admirable, she'd feel like she was a good parent. If we didn't, she felt that reflected on her too. Like many kids, we had our ups and downs. Sometimes we'd get a good grade, sometimes not the best grade. Someone with a stable sense of self would not feel threatened by that- they may encourage the child to do better, but that would be for the child's best interest.

My own employment varied with the needs of my kids. I had a career, became a stay at home mom, and then changed to a different type of job. Being a stay at home mother was difficult, ego wise as the external validation from a job helped my self esteem.  One doesn't hear " I am proud of you" for household tasks, carpooling, and the day to day tasks. One outcome of this was that I was able to separate the value of "who I am" from "what I do". To my BPD mother, approval seems contingent on what I could do for her.

Golden Child sibling took a non traditional route to a career. BPD mother at times helped financially (Dad's earnings) but that also seemed to give her license to be critical and verbally abusive. The reality though is that BPD mother has not worked outside the home. She doesn't do housework or cook. It seems ironic that she feels she's in a position to be critical of what we do. It would make more sense to consider constructive criticism from someone who has also done the jobs I do.

So Turkish, no matter what job or how much you earned, you are someone to be proud of. You have a loving relationship with your children. You changed the cycle of abuse that you grew up with. You have a strong sense of ethical values. You overcame so many obstacles. You are also human, and while humans make errors sometimes, and sometimes we get it right, neither of these define our own self worth. This job is the icing on the cake. You have "made it" all along.

[lm1109]

I'm thankful that I'm able to land safely. My friends are happy for me. I also feel a hole, like I want my mom to be happy for me to share the news... while at the same time wondering if she'd downplay it and me as still not being good enough or successful. 

This really got me thinking...I absolutely feel this hole as well. For me...it's a hole of not ever having a parent who was happy for me or proud of me. I think it's just a human need...and it never seems to fully go away when this need is unfulfilled.

This last week or so I have been actively trying to NOT think about my parents...I'm just so exhausted by the grief. Unfortunately, my son and I ended up sick these last few days and I've been forced to stop. I watched a movie that triggered the memory of when I told my Mom that I was engaged. All the movies show women telling their moms, flashing their ring, hugging, and crying happily. I was young enough back then that I believed I had a shot at a "normal" reaction. My Mom acted annoyed that I showed up at her house, acted annoyed by my excitement, told me I was too young, etc. She always had a way of squashing my excitement or happiness in life and she was ALWAYS competing with me and was jealous of everything I had or accomplished.  After reading this post and thinking about it I realized that the closest thing to a "I'm proud of you" came from my Dad. He told my husband and I(when my mom wasn't around) that he was proud of us when we paid off our house. It was the first time I'd EVER heard the word proud come out of either one of my parents mouth. However, all of the praise seemed to be aimed solely at my husband. He looked past the fact that I had started a small business at 21, with a baby, and had saved every penny, that after putting my baby to bed I'd stay up late at night and work on flipping our investment property, or how much energy I put into saving and being responsible with our finances, etc. Looking back, my parents actively tried to convince me that my husband and I would fail. When we purchased our investment property they told us that we were crazy to think we would make money off of it. My mom even tried to convince us to sell it for a loss. We ended up making even more money than we projected off of it and my parents just acted shocked or maybe annoyed that we were acting happy...they never said they were proud. My Mom looks for the worst in people and it's ALL she can see. She lacked the ability to be proud but also lacked the ability to even be happy for me...ever!

Mom: I've "made it," far beyond what you predicted (negatively at the time), and I wish you were still here to talk. I told you in 1996 when I moved to another state that I forgave you, but I wasn't entirely sincere. I'm not sure that I am entirely sincere in 2022, and still resent that you told me that you did the best that you could. Maybe that's true... and I've hoped to do better by my kids, your grandchildren. I wish that you were still here, but despite it all, I've turned out OK, and maybe that's the best that I could do."

These words really moved me as well! I recently read that you should stop striving for forgiveness and instead strive for acceptance. Acceptance of my childhood and current situation with my parents is my goal... I'm not sure if I will ever reach forgiveness...and I am OK with that. I KNOW that they will never be proud of me...and I accept it and am ok with that as well. I have overcome so much and I am learning to be proud of myself.

So Turkish, no matter what job or how much you earned, you are someone to be proud of. You have a loving relationship with your children. You changed the cycle of abuse that you grew up with. You have a strong sense of ethical values. You overcame so many obstacles. You are also human, and while humans make errors sometimes, and sometimes we get it right, neither of these define our own self worth. This job is the icing on the cake. You have "made it" all along.

I wholeheartedly agree with this! Changing the cycle of abuse IS what I'm most proud of and I truly hope that you are proud of yourself for this as well! I know that you mentioned that your mother passed on...I would never try to push my beliefs upon anyone...but for me...I truly believe that once someone crosses over they are no longer suffering in their mental illness and they can finally "see" the truth and be proud and love...this belief is what gives me hope...I suppose that one day there will be healing even for those who couldn't find it in life.

I'm proud of everyone who is here helping one another and working hard at getting better 

[Methuen]

My mom’s not proud of me.  She doesn’t show nor feel any pride of me.  She is only proud of herself because anything I accomplished was because of her (of course). 

The irony is that while she tricks herself into believing this in the moment, inside she feels empty.

[Notwendy]

Methuen, you summed it up well.

[Notwendy]

I think every child - at any age- wants this from their parents. I think at some point, I stopped seeking approval from my BPD mother, but still- always- wanted it from my father.

At one point though, I stopped telling my parents about my achievements and achievements my own children's achievements because, I did not want the kids to be used as narcissistic supply in the way we felt we were. As Methuen said- it's about BPD mother, not us or the kids. I don't think she was ever really proud of us.

Kids aren't circus pets to perform on demand. Like most kids, we had our achievements, we had times we didn't achieve. Unconditional love isn't contingent on a child achieving to please a parent. Hopefully we want kids to achieve their goals for their own sense of accomplishment.

[Methuen]

NW, I have read about you talk about your father's role in the whole complicated dynamic many times.  Today after reading your post, I did a little exercise.  I imagined it was my father who did that to me.  The impact was instant.  It was disbelief and betrayal.  I saw my father as being such a good person, as did everyone who knew him, that if he had done to me what you have described your father did to you, and there was no resolution before his passing,  I would probably never be able to get over it.  Does that ring true?

As it is, my father had Lewy Bodies and passed over 17 years ago.  The dynamic you have described with your father demanding you support your mother never materialized for me.  In fact in my case, it was my father who asked me to drive him to a "secret" doctor's appointment, where he disclosed to his family doctor how his wife was treating him in the early stages of his illness.  The doctor listened and said, "it sounds like your wife has borderline personality disorder".  That my father invited me into that appointment to be with him was a gift.

I am so sorry for what happened to you.  The ripple effect and destructive effects of this disorder is stunning.  I genuinely feel for you. 

[Notwendy]

Thanks, Methuen. It was harder to deal with emotionally than with my mother.


The ripple effect and destructive effects of this disorder is stunning.

Yes and it was a shock to see what kind of power this dysfunction has. I can break up families. It doesn't seem fair that such a dysfunctional person can do this.

I wish my father would have told his health care providers what was going on, but also I think he was too enmeshed to do that. Due to the abuse he endured, I don't hold him accountable for his actions. He was imperfect like we all are, but I credit him for the good in our lives growing up. We'd have been far worse off without him.

To cope, I became more existential about "wanting a parent to be proud of me". I believe there's a higher judge and that judge sees things. Truth has to prevail in the long run.

[WalkbyFaith]

Do I struggle for my parent(s) to be proud of me? Oh, yes. Since I got married and moved away for a husband and job in another state, my parents hardly want to talk about my life or what I do. They have frequently changed the subject when I try to share something about my work or my life here -- unless it's something semi-negative that they can rally behind complaining about (an annoying neighbor, a over-booked schedule, etc).

Now, when I brought this up recently -- sharing that it's hurtful that they don't seem to care about my life or my job -- my mom was VERY offended, and turned the blame on me for "never sharing anything or answering her questions," so why would she continue to ask questions if I "obviously" didn't want to talk about it. Since then, she keeps sending me screenshots of her "facebook memories" of posts where (10 or 12 years ago) she bragged about me and my work. She just sent me another one this morning. Trying to prove her point that she is interested in and proud of me. I feel like those original bragging posts were more for attention than anything. They certainly don't make me feel any better now.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Since then, she keeps sending me screenshots of her "facebook memories" of posts where (10 or 12 years ago) she bragged about me and my work. She just sent me another one this morning. Trying to prove her point that she is interested in and proud of me. I feel like those original bragging posts were more for attention than anything. They certainly don't make me feel any better now.

Using the fact she was (maybe) proud of you 10 or 12 years ago to gain in the upper hand on you today and make you feel guilty is a new kind of low.

[Turkish]

Now, when I brought this up recently -- sharing that it's hurtful that they don't seem to care about my life or my job -- my mom was VERY offended, and turned the blame on me for "never sharing anything or answering her questions," so why would she continue to ask questions if I "obviously" didn't want to talk about it

I felt something similar with my then not ex who called me a "bad communicator." I remember once trying to share something about my childhood and she walked away throwing up her hands saying,  "too negative! I don't want to hear about it!" To which I thought, she's not a safe person with whom to share.

In about 2011, I was doing my budget in the office and my mom walked in. Apropos of nothing, she said, "you should go back to school, maybe for nursing," her career about which I'd heard nothing but negativity since I was a small child. I was the primary provider with two babies and a mortgage.

 I tabbed over and said, "here's my retirement account balance so far." I'd been contributing for almost 20 years by then. She looked, her mouth dropping open, and backed out of the room without another comment.

No, "wow, that's quite an accomplishment especially considering where you came from! Which was largely my fault, well done!"

To be fair, I think that she was proud on some level, but unable to verbalize it mostly. Revenge might be my kids throwing something in my face in a decade or so I guess...

[Notwendy]

Revenge might be my kids throwing something in my face in a decade or so I guess...

Possibly so, but then, they may be parents one day too and have their kids do that. It's degrees though- you didn't behave like your mother. So my kids say things like " I can't believe you didn't let me watch this movie when I was younger" or some other "transgression" . No parent is perfect. We have all likely made some mistakes. But I think we can say we did it differently.

[Teabunny]

Yes, I'm also not sure if my parents are proud of me.

Why I'm confused is the mixed messages. They've often said they're proud of me and proud of my accomplishments as a kid and now as an adult. But I constantly have a sense that they don't know who I am and are disappointed in me or Mom is angry at me and Dad might be going along with it.

For example, I celebrated a huge wedding anniversary milestone with my husband, we're very happily married. After we returned from a local vacation, I sent my parents an email describing our trip and attached photos of activities. I didn't get any response at all from either parent and it's been weeks since I sent it. That's happened before, but sometimes they do respond. The way I perceive their lengthy silence during and after our anniversary is to feel like they are not happy about it.

Because of my history with them, I guess maybe they're not responding because they got in another fight - Mom saw us being happy and blamed Dad or me (again) for their marriage being unhappy, or maybe she's jealous, or she might be mad that I included Dad's email so he could hear about our trip too (she deletes emails before he can read them so I added his work email) or the most likely, she doesn't like to hear that I travel to places instead of visiting her. Or my most hopeful guess, neither of them are mad at me and are too preoccupied with Mom's issues to have time to reply congrats. Regardless of their reasons (and I wish I could stop speculating, but I feel unsafe when my parents are angry with me, so it comes from that place) - both of my parents independently decided to remain silent about my wedding anniversary and to not reply to my email describing our trip. It was awesome and super fun, by the way. 

It's nice to have other people in my life who consistently encourage me and react as though they truly are proud of me, happy for me and actively supportive of what I do. I've never doubted whether such people are proud of me, I instinctively know that if I share something joyful with them, it will be a mutually enjoyable moment. But I doubt whether my parents mean it when they say they're proud of me, and I'm actually a little afraid to share anything, even the great things. Ultimately, it may always hurt from our parents, but having those other healthy relationships is key.

[todayistheday]

I try not to, but it is really frustrating being the scapegoated kid.  She does not scapegoat me like when I was a kid.  I'm now 60 years old.   I actually find myself being jealous of my nephews, her grandchildren for the attention.

She makes out like every one of their achievements, no matter how small is the grandest thing in the world.  Things that I achieved myself at those ages, but in my case, it was never enough.

If I have an achievement at work she doesn't care.

I was trying to learn piano as a a kid.  Not well enough for her.  She took me out of lessons for various reasons while my sister continued for another eight or so years.  I was not even allowed to touch the piano (when she was home).   So as an adult, I restarted taking piano and have become quite good.  She still does not want to hear me play it.  She goes on and on about how good the kids are.  They are on-track for their ages.  Neither bad nor virtuoso.  I am actually pretty good now.  But if I play around her at my hose(taking care to play well), she wants one of the kids to play instead.

Several videos of me playing, solo and ensemble piano have been posted on Facebook -- from the studio I attend.  Also videos of me playing bells in church.  Both have me tagged, so she sees them.  My sister and my friends, including our mutual friends, almost always has something polite to say.

She has NEVER ONCE clicked a like or commented on one, although they usually get lots of reactions.  Yet she will re-post ANY time she gets a chance of one of the kids playing piano or another instrument.  And she re-posts videos of my sister's best friend's husband playing in their church all the time and talks about what a wonderful musician he is.   

If I talk about my music -- I play several instruments, she rolls her eyes to the back of her head and immediately changes the subject to nephews or sister's friend and sister's friend's husband.  She doesn't even acknowledge it.   

At 60, I should not be jealous of my beloved nephews or of people who she knows third-hand.  However, our emotions are our emotions and real.   I don't expect accolades.  Just acknowledgement.  I am aware that I will never get that.

[Turkish]

todayistheday

The invalidation of your musical talents and lack of acknowledging the work you put into that is whacked!

I don't even know you, but I'm proud of you, or at least that's admirable. You should be proud of your work.

[Methuen]

She took me out of lessons for various reasons while my sister continued for another eight or so years.  I was not even allowed to touch the piano (when she was home).   So as an adult, I restarted taking piano and have become quite good.  She still does not want to hear me play it.

This is messed up.

It bothers you - for good reason.  Is it possible that she is getting some satisfaction knowing it bothers you?  And that’s why she keeps doing it? Cause it gives her power over your emotions?

Like you say-you have a right to your emotions and to feel them.  

How’s your acting?  What  if you took away her power by not letting her see or perceive that it bothers you?  Is it possible to not telegraph to her it bothers you?

I don’t know if this makes any sense, but I’m trying to think of how to take away the satisfaction this behavior brings her.  

She’s minimizing your accomplishments because she feels so small inside.  To make herself feel better she needs a scapegoat.  

Is it possible to spend less time around her?

I’m so happy for you that you returned to the piano.  The enjoyment of playing must be for yourself.  You don’t need her approval.  Congratulations on your accomplishment!  That’s amazing!

[Notwendy]

That's a wonderful talent!

A phrase that I have thought about is the Biblical "Don't cast your pearls before swine" quote.

Not to insinuate that anyone is a swine, but to me, it's a statement to not share something valuable to me with someone who doesn't value it. "Pearls" can be feelings.

You have a talent that can bring joy and satisfaction to you, and happiness to people who enjoy your playing. Your mother's inability to perceive the value of this has nothing to do with you. This is her issue and it's sad that she can't, but that doesn't diminish the value of you or your talent. A pearl is still a pearl.

Your mother can't validate you. I know it's difficult to not wish for it. I think we all do wish for validation from our parents. But it may be that she just can't do this for you.

Please keep on playing and  sharing your talent. It's a gift.