What happened?

[Phoenixrise]

Hello everyone,

Honestly I don't know where to start except I know I need help.

Anyway, hard to know what to put in here as there is so much to the story but I will try my best to keep it brief.

I was in a relationship for over 4 years, 3 of which we lived together. We meet online (via a dating site) and I was immediately taken in.

I will call my ex unBPD. So my ex was born in a former soviet country but was living in the US and as I am an Aussie I was living in Australia, but the distance did not matter as we just clicked, it was more like a bolt of lighting had struck my heart and stopped me in my tracks. We exchanged personals details and started emailing each other after about two weeks.

The communication increased in the following weeks, to such a point were we exchanged thousands of texts and spent countless hours on Skype and on audio calls to each other. I was sent roses, beautiful bunches of flowers. All of this was over a period of 6 months before we eventually met in person. My ex unBPD came to visit me and I was absolutely besotted. She was real, she turned up and she was even more incredible in person. After our initial meeting, we visited each other a couple a times, I spent new year with my ex in Singapore, along with her aunty and cousin, it was magical. Then I moved to the US, so we could live together. Not long into living together Covid broke out and we were forced to lockdown. So we spent a lot of time together.

As a lesbian, my sexuality has never really been an issue for me, I was confident in who I was and even though I went to a Catholic school, I was able to come out when I was about 20. (We were both in our late 30’s when we first started communicating with each other.) My ex unBPD had told she had married a man when she was younger and had left him not long after because she was gay and could not live a lie. She also told me that she had taken pills at that time in her life and was taken to hospital, as it was just so hard for her to deal with everything. Her mother, who from the many stories my ex told me was very toxic, very immature and quite manipulative. Her mother apparently sent her to doctors to try and get her to stop being gay, it sounded horrific to me and I felt so sorry for my ex. (As mentioned my ex is from a former soviet country and homosexuality was and still is not viewed favourably at all.)

(My ex did not ever hide our relationship, her mother, father, brother, aunty, cousin and the one friend she had, all knew about me and I had met them either in person or via video call.)

My ex also told me that her second major relationship was with a women and they met in her home country and ended up moving to the US and got married. My ex told me that the relationship ended not long after, as her ex cheated on her. I felt so much empathy for my ex after all that she had gone through and was amazed at her strength and courage.

In the beginning there were some red flags that I saw, I stopped contact at one stage for 6 weeks as I though that she may not have been a real person, (maybe a scammer), the connection just felt too good to be true and at other times she would say things that seemed rather odd, things that did not make a lot of sense sometimes. Sometimes saying things that were a little passive aggressive. But I ended up caving in and made contact and we went straight back to the texting, calling etc. But she made it clear that I should not do that ever again etc. (I also thought that maybe because she was native Russian speaking that maybe I misunderstood some things she said.)

The first 12 to 18 months was incredible, my ex unBPD was the one, and I was so grateful that the universe had bought us together from the opposite sides of the world. We adored each other, my ex told me we would get married, that we would have children. I did not ever really consider marriage or children, but with her I started to think yeah maybe I could do that. She was like a dream come true. I was deeply in love and felt I had finally found my soul mate. My confidence was boosted beyond anything I had felt before. I was on cloud nine. (Not that I had a bad self esteem, but the intense focus and countless messages of how beautiful I was, etc was pretty amazing and felt really good.)

Fast forward to a year ago, she moved to Australia with me and we seemed ok for a couple of weeks. We moved to a small country area, near my parents and it was only going to be temporary as we both wanted to live in the city. But we were just having a small break before looking for work and deciding where to live. It was not overly easy and I wondered if we would have moved to the city straight away would things have been different, I blame myself for this and almost everything that went wrong in the relationship by the way.

So a few weeks into living in Australia our relationship started to feel different, it felt strange at times before this too but this time it was getting more and more uncomfortable. I hoped that things would get better. My ex told me one day that she was not happy and did not really go into detail about why, that she was just not happy and felt empty. Then I noticed a few weeks later something on her phone, she had been looking at apartment rentals in the US and when I tried to talk to her about it, she dismissed it, but then the next day she told me she did not know what to do and that she felt not good, like she felt like she was dying.

I was so, so concerned, I tried to see what I could do, offered to get help, but she wanted a therapist that spoke her native language, which was Russian. I was at a loss for what to do and we spent a very tough few months together from that point. I felt like I was a bit numb and had trouble managing my life, I felt so invested in my ex, and was at a loss as what to do. I did not want to provoke her, so just kind of closed up a little. (My ex unBPD would never get extremely angry, she could just get a bit passive aggressive, she said she felt anger at me at times though, for very little things might I add.)

At this stage she would start to say things out loud sometimes, it was a little strange to me as I did not know what was happening. She would just mutter things under her breath and hen continue doing whatever she was doing. She said once that "I don’t even know if I am gay or straight".

Then another time "I did not even want to go to America", the interesting thing here is that she went to America with her ex who was female and they married in the US. (So I don't know why that came up as it had nothing to do with me.)

Then, "I need to be more empathetic" and other things that just seemed like they came out of nowhere.

Then one day she mentioned again that she felt empty inside and felt like she was dying and that if I loved her unconditionally I would understand and respect whatever decision she made in terms of our relationship. I was just devastated and felt quite shocked and my self esteem plummeted. I spent weeks in a daze, what had I done, why did I not get us a place in the city straight away etc etc, I was blaming myself for what had happened. My ex unBPD eventually made plans to visit her family in her home country (former soviet country) as she had not seen her mother and father (who are separated) for sometime and that she would get some doctor check ups, too while she was there. (My ex felt that something was wrong wth her, as she felt like she was dying. But she did not see a doctor here though, but she could have if she wanted to, I would have organised this immediately.)

Anyway, we agreed that she would return back to Australia, but as yet she has not and that was about three months ago.

Two months ago I received a very, very brief email from my ex BPD saying that she was not a lesbian, that she did not even read lesbian books or watch gay movies. That she loved me like she loved her family. To say the email felt impersonal is an understatement, it felt completely impersonal, very matter of fact and like our relationship was nothing and could easily be discarded like rubbish. It also felt very immature, like she was searching for an excuse for her behaviour or something.

I was shellshocked, absolutely crushed. She tried calling me after sending the email and I did not answer. I texted and told her that I was not ready to talk to her and when I was ready I would let her know, I still have not talked to her as I am still not ready to speak to her.

This is a very short version of events, so there was a lot more to our relationship. I was incredibly supportive and I was always on her side. But as I have had time to reflect on our time together, I see that I overlooked quite a number of red flags, in relation to her mood and personality. She could be a little fickle and distant at times and would change or take something she said back about really important things at other times.

Also as she speaks Russian, my ex could talk to her family without me understanding what was being said. I found out that her brother had asked if she would move to Russia to look after his children, be like a live in nanny, her brother showed obvious narcissistic traits, I had met him on many occasions and just felt uncomfortable being around him and his trophy wife and family. Incredibly fake and very arrogant and obsessed with their appearance and material things. So anyway I said to my ex well what about me, like if you were going to Russia, what about me, she said she wasn't going to do it. But it just seemed odd that conversation would have come upon with her brother and especially after he knew she was living with me. (I was always nice to her brother for her sake and never caused any issues between them, if my ex unBPD wanted a relationship with her brother then that was fine, but what hurt me was how he treated her at times, it was pretty terrible.)

So I have sought a therapist but I may need to find another one as I dont know if she gets it. But since that email, I have not been dealing well with things at all. I have done some research into personality disorders after sharing some things with my therapist as I had wondered if my ex had a personality disorder and my therapist seems to think it is highly likely. I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone that has BDP and apologise in advance if I have offended anyone. I realise that I am not a doctor and can not diagnose someone. But I feel quite honestly that my ex has some sort of personality disorder.

On reflection, my ex mentioned some things early in the relationship around mental issues and I thought she was talking about someone else, but now I think she was actually talking about herself, I just feel horrible about what has happened, I am confused, feel panicked and have got major anxiety now. I did have some anxiety when I was younger, but I was managing life pretty well, had a good level of self esteem, confident in my direction in life etc when I met her. But now I feel incredibly anxious, drained and betrayed somehow.

It has been so hard and what’s more I still care about her. I feel responsible for what has happened and if only I could have insisted that she got professional help here in Australia, if I had of asked more questions about how she was, if I would have organised for us to live somewhere different and so on. I hope what I have written makes sense, because I have so much going around in my head that I am felling quite confused and I am really struggling with what has happened. I have dealt with a long term relationship break up previous to meeting my ex, but it was nothing like what happened here. (Like not as dramatic or confusing by any means.)

My exBPD apparently wants to talk to me, as per her email where she ended it with what should we do? But I just don't feel up to it at the moment. It makes me feel sick in the stomach actually.

Thank you for letting me share this.
 

[Phoenixrise]

I realise my first post was quite long, so some may find it too much to read through.

Basically in short I am feeling absolutely devastated and drained after my undiagnosed ex ended our relationship almost 3 months ago.

I feel anxiety like never before and my confusion is at an all time high.

If anyone has any tips or techniques to help me process what has happened or to help with the anxiety I am feeling, I would be so grateful for.

Thank you.

[imstillhere89]

Hi Phoenixrise,

I have read your story. I'm very sorry you have to go thru this. I'm not an expert but I will tell you what I think.
First of all you have to stop blaming yourself for things you did or not did. She is not a child and she is fully responsible for herself. I think she knew all those things she wrote in the email to you whilst she was still next to you. But it was easier to send it via email than tell you straight to your face.
You shouldn't force yourself if you aren't ready for conversation with her. But on the other hand you can't move on until you talk to her. I wouldn't be able to wait that long (knowing myself). You know that this conversation will take the place sooner or later so maybe it would be better to consider it done rather sooner than later? For your own sanity. Hugs x

[Rev]

Hi Pheonix Rise,

I just wanted to take a moment to welcome you. 

I'm going to take some time later to really sit with your story and then get back to you.

For now, hang in there. This is a really great place you've come to.

Rev

[Rev]

I realise my first post was quite long, so some may find it too much to read through.

Basically in short I am feeling absolutely devastated and drained after my undiagnosed ex ended our relationship almost 3 months ago.

I feel anxiety like never before and my confusion is at an all time high.

If anyone has any tips or techniques to help me process what has happened or to help with the anxiety I am feeling, I would be so grateful for.

Thank you.

Following my last post - for now - stay close to your friends, keep your diet clean, try and reduce the amount of alcohol you consume and replace that with exercise. 

I'll write back.

Rev

[Phoenixrise]

Hi Phoenixrise,

I have read your story. I'm very sorry you have to go thru this. I'm not an expert but I will tell you what I think.
First of all you have to stop blaming yourself for things you did or not did. She is not a child and she is fully responsible for herself. I think she knew all those things she wrote in the email to you whilst she was still next to you. But it was easier to send it via email than tell you straight to your face.
You shouldn't force yourself if you aren't ready for conversation with her. But on the other hand you can't move on until you talk to her. I wouldn't be able to wait that long (knowing myself). You know that this conversation will take the place sooner or later so maybe it would be better to consider it done rather sooner than later? For your own sanity. Hugs x

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my story and for your kind words, it means a lot.

I am kind of a little hesitant to speak to her for various reasons, I guess partly because I feel sick about what has happened and just an overwhelming sense of pain. But I do think I need to speak to her at some point and hopefully I can find the strength to do that as you said sooner rather than later.

Thanks again. x

[Phoenixrise]

Following my last post - for now - stay close to your friends, keep your diet clean, try and reduce the amount of alcohol you consume and replace that with exercise. 

I'll write back.

Rev

Thank you Rev, for the welcome, I really appreciate it.

They are great tips too, it is just very challenging for me at the moment as I really don't feel like talking to anyone, I just want to go in cocoon and not come out until I feel half human again. So I am grateful for people like you and this forum, a place where I feel safe to vent without fear of judgement.

And I would definitely appreciate any feedback you may have on my story and I am happy to answer any questions to help clarify anything further as well.

I guess apart from wanting to heal, I also want to try and see if I can understand what happened and why. Maybe I will never understand and if that is the case then so be it. But I need to try something as the confusion, pain and anxiety happening within me at the moment is there for a reason and I am trying to to look at ways to work through it as healthily as possible. Thus taking the step to tell my story on this forum.

Thanks so much.

[Phoenixrise]

So a little more to the story.

When my ex unBDP broke up with me via email, she then tried calling me and I texted her and said that I was not ready to talk as I was incredibly distraught from what had just happened. I said that I would let her know when I was ready to talk. (This was about two or three months ago.)

So last week I texted her checking in on her after a few weeks of NC and said that I may be ready to talk soon, but that I was also checking on how she was. She responded that she was ok and that to let her know when I am ready to talk.

Then last night I texted to see if she was still in her hometown and that I may be ready to talk next week sometime. (I asked if she was in her hometown only because we live on opposite sides of the world and I was trying to figure out the time difference to reach out an appropriate time).

She responded with, 'hope you are doing ok, emotionally and mentally I'm not ok. I have therapy sessions and maybe I'll need more time before I could talk to you. I'll let you know. Please tale care of yourself and may angels always protect you. You are always in my prayers'.

Honestly, this whole situation is just heartbreaking.

I am in my 40's but thankfully have a very caring Mum. My mum knows that we have broken up and she does not like to see me in so much pain. She also thinks that my ex unBPD is unstable and that I should not give her anymore of my energy or time.

I understand that this is tearing me apart, but my heart breaks for my ex, her own mother is just not fit emotionally to support her in a healthy way, very judgmental and selfish. Her brother is narcissistic and her father is living in a dreamland.

I still care about her very much and just want some advice on how to respond to her text. I don't want to add to her trauma, I just want to soothe her in some way. I do not want to get back together with her, so this is not a manipulation thing, I just genuinely care. (Even if it is to the detriment of my own well being, which I am trying to work on at the moment too.)

Thank you.

[SinisterComplex]

I realise my first post was quite long, so some may find it too much to read through.

Basically in short I am feeling absolutely devastated and drained after my undiagnosed ex ended our relationship almost 3 months ago.

I feel anxiety like never before and my confusion is at an all time high.

If anyone has any tips or techniques to help me process what has happened or to help with the anxiety I am feeling, I would be so grateful for.

Thank you.

I am only jumping in to reply to this one specific part..." realise my first post was quite long, so some may find it too much to read through." - Phoenix, no more thinking like this. What I don't want you doing is over analyzing and trying to be the audience and do the thinking for them. No, you have something to say you have to let it fly and you get it out...ok?

It wasn't too much at all. This is a safe haven here. The more you put in and you put out there the more you will get back.

So please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Yes, I am following along. If you have any specific questions please feel free to ask otherwise continue to post and vent and mingle with the community here.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Torimagic]

That is really hard. All of it. I did read your story and you are supported. For my own story I keep telling myself it doesn’t make sense. When I try to gain understanding or become obsessed in the bargaining stage of grief I remind myself it doesn’t make sense and that is the truth. It’s mental illness.  I also remind myself when I’m self-blaming that it takes two in a relationship. I am giving myself to much power. My ex could have also made several choices. It’s horrible and one of the most painful experiences I have ever had. I’m almost to two months post break up.

[Rev]

Hi Pheonixrise

Thanks for your patience. I really wanted to get some distance from the story because I don't want to make my story your story.  The intensity of the love bombing are so similar. My now ex didn't send flowers - she sang to me and talked so much about how I was her soul mate.  By the time I was hooked, it was too late.  So, I am not wanting to assume that you have dodged a bullet.  And yet...

I echo that there are many therapists who have a hard time getting how easy it can be to be hooked into these relationships - to literally grieve the loss of a person that, frankly, doesn't seem to exist. Your ex has told you at least one truth - she is not gay. In fact, pwBPD are known to have very erratic sexual lives. Personally, I think it belies an empathy gap where the actual act is not a means to connect with another person, but to obtain any emotional charge.   And because, if we are attached, these relationships hook into the core of our identity and then the havoc starts. That's where your anxiety is coming from.

As I have journeyed on these boards and come out of my own story, I am starting to wonder if we shouldn't be talking about re-hab from an accident rather than grief per se, when recovering from a break-up. For sure, grief is part of re-hab, but it doesn't start there. And wondering "why we didn't see the red flags" doesn't necessarily help either. (Although we all do it and it does have its place to prevent this from happening again - but that's about future coping mechanisms and anxiety reduction, and less about actual recovery from the emotional injury).

Before I say more, just wanting to check in now. Does what I am saying resonate?

Next exchange, and based on your thoughts, I can share with you what I did to break the hold my ex had on me and how I found healing.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[Phoenixrise]

I am only jumping in to reply to this one specific part..." realise my first post was quite long, so some may find it too much to read through." - Phoenix, no more thinking like this. What I don't want you doing is over analyzing and trying to be the audience and do the thinking for them. No, you have something to say you have to let it fly and you get it out...ok?

It wasn't too much at all. This is a safe haven here. The more you put in and you put out there the more you will get back.

So please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Yes, I am following along. If you have any specific questions please feel free to ask otherwise continue to post and vent and mingle with the community here.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

Hi SC,

Thank you so much for what you wrote, I actually cried when I read it. Cried because it was so kind and also because it really hit home.

I am only just realising how much I have been putting myself down and just how much my confidence has plummeted.

Thank you for your support, I really appreciate it.

[Phoenixrise]

That is really hard. All of it. I did read your story and you are supported. For my own story I keep telling myself it doesn’t make sense. When I try to gain understanding or become obsessed in the bargaining stage of grief I remind myself it doesn’t make sense and that is the truth. It’s mental illness.  I also remind myself when I’m self-blaming that it takes two in a relationship. I am giving myself to much power. My ex could have also made several choices. It’s horrible and one of the most painful experiences I have ever had. I’m almost to two months post break up.

Thank you for your wise words and support.

I am sorry to hear about your situation also and understand how hard and painful it is.

I have been getting stuck obsessing about the good times and then beat myself up, like I am to blame for everything and if only I had of done x, y, and z things would be different.

I minimise the things that did not make sense or the times I felt that something was not quite right. Thanks for helping me see this pattern of thinking.

[Phoenixrise]

Hi Pheonixrise

Thanks for your patience. I really wanted to get some distance from the story because I don't want to make my story your story.  The intensity of the love bombing are so similar. My now ex didn't send flowers - she sang to me and talked so much about how I was her soul mate.  By the time I was hooked, it was too late.  So, I am not wanting to assume that you have dodged a bullet.  And yet...

I echo that there are many therapists who have a hard time getting how easy it can be to be hooked into these relationships - to literally grieve the loss of a person that, frankly, doesn't seem to exist. Your ex has told you at least one truth - she is not gay. In fact, pwBPD are known to have very erratic sexual lives. Personally, I think it belies an empathy gap where the actual act is not a means to connect with another person, but to obtain any emotional charge.   And because, if we are attached, these relationships hook into the core of our identity and then the havoc starts. That's where your anxiety is coming from.

As I have journeyed on these boards and come out of my own story, I am starting to wonder if we shouldn't be talking about re-hab from an accident rather than grief per se, when recovering from a break-up. For sure, grief is part of re-hab, but it doesn't start there. And wondering "why we didn't see the red flags" doesn't necessarily help either. (Although we all do it and it does have its place to prevent this from happening again - but that's about future coping mechanisms and anxiety reduction, and less about actual recovery from the emotional injury).

Before I say more, just wanting to check in now. Does what I am saying resonate?

Next exchange, and based on your thoughts, I can share with you what I did to break the hold my ex had on me and how I found healing.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

Thanks so much for your message Rev.

I guess there are a few things I wanted to respond to you about, in terms of things that I resonate with and some things that I don't really resonate with. (It has actually been incredibly helpful to have found somewhere where I can express myself and get things out of my head and into the open, so thank you to you and this forum for the support.)

I understand that our story may have some similarities and I appreciate you sharing that.

My ex also sung to me, she sent a video of herself playing the guitar and singing me happy birthday, I thought it was one of the most romantic things in the world. We would also sing songs back and forth to each other using one of those karaoke apps. I never used to take selfies until I met my ex as she wanted to see pictures of me (a lot might I add) before we had met in person and then whenever we were away from each other. She would comment on my pictures and tell me how beautiful I was. And in person she was initially glued to me and very complimentary of my looks, how smart I was, how talented I was etc.  (I am pretty good looking not in a vain way, but to get told how beautiful I was constantly, felt pretty amazing.)

She would absolutely sweet talk and charm me with compliments and attention for hours and hours at a time in the beginning. But there were also times that I felt is was too much, almost sickly sweet and I just wondered what was going on. Like is she ok? Yes, there were red flags that I just overlooked. I always considered myself as someone that could not be taken in by a cult or other controlling type behaviours, as my BS detector used to be pretty spot on. In the past I had dated someone with unNPD and after some pretty toxic situations, I saw her for what she was and did not feel any major trauma or pain for leaving, It was actually empowering to get out of that relationship. (I did not realise she had NPD at the time, I only realised this after the research I have been doing)

She would also at times not answer questions directly, it was a bit off-putting, but I just accepted it. Another red flag.

I also resonate with how many therapists have a hard time getting how easy it can be to be hooked into these relationships. I just don’t think some of them have actually studied BPD or NPD in depth or even much at all. It is an area that I feel needs addressing on a rather large scale, people need to be aware of theses disorders. Not to make villains of those that are diagnosed with these disorders but to educate and inform the wider community.

Imagine the amount of heartache that cold be avoided if those that crossed passed with these people and could make an informed choice about whether or not to pursue a relationship or friendship etc. Clearly we have people with personality disorders in areas of influence that are incredibly damaging to our society.
This is why this forum is incredibly helpful for our communities and society as a whole. Perhaps also if more people knew about them, we could really start holding these people accountable for the damage they do and perhaps at some other level these folks may get the help they need.

In terms of my ex, I am wondering if she has a combination of BPD and CNPD (covert narcissistic personality disorder). Seems to be quite a few things that overlap too, so as I am still researching these disorders the more I find out the more that seems to point to this.

I also question whether my ex is really gay (or perhaps just bisexual). And so I am not sure I actually agree with what you said about her telling the truth about her not being gay, because there is just a lot more to this. There is a lot more to sexuality in general and being gay myself I have a pretty good sense of who is or isn’t, hard to explain and I don’t want to spend too much time on this as it is quite personal. But on an intuitive level feel/know that my ex is definitely not straight. I do think now though after some reflection that she has issues around true intimacy and what that means exactly. I did think she let her guard drop on occasion, but I think this kind of scared her.

Her excuse for breaking up with me saying that she was not a lesbian, seems like just a very convenient excuse. An excuse to shirk any responsibility whatsoever for her behaviour.  Perhaps an easy way to shut me down in her mind. It is becoming clearer and clearer to me, just how incredibly emotionally immature my ex is and how she just could not handle being held accountable for anything in her life.

Which brings me to her having issues with responsibilities and her ability to plan for the future. It seemed like she was not able to be responsible for herself, for her actions and had issues with commitment of any kind. Even work commitments seemed too much for her. I also realise that she did not know what she wanted to do wth her life, it changed constantly, one day a sommelier, another day a reiki teacher, the next to own a restaurant etc.

She also had no real goals and nothing to show financially speaking. I own property etc and have done this myself and she has never even considered doing this herself. (She has sponged off her narcissistic brother and her mother’s latest husband who is loaded, in the past.) We did share financial responsibilities while together well mostly anyway, (I did pay for the Australian partner visa outright which was over $7,000 though). People are different of course and I don't condemn people at all for not wanting to but property or anything and so that is not what I am saying here. It is just that she did not seem to have the capacity for setting goals or committing to things.

The more I reflect on the relationship, the more I see how much she had me focused on her and not her behaviours if that makes sense. I would worry and obsess about her and if she was ok. She would make me feel bad for not cooking, I don’t like cooking and this is really the only thing that I did very little of in the relationship. I cleaned house and did the washing mostly. Anyway, she is really good cook and at times if I offered to cook, she would just say that she would do it, but then she would punish me for not doing more of it.

What I also realise is that, did we ever have proper conversations about how to resolve things, like with the example of cooking. If she wanted a break from cooking I would have happily organised getting meals prepared or some other alternative but saying that I didn’t cook and that she would be tired of it at times just made me feel bad.

Hopefully as I heal and share my story more it can help someone else who may be going through something similar. It is actually really cathartic and I am seeing how much I was just so under her spell. I still feel like I was to blame for things not working out, that it was all my fault so to speak.

But I do hope I can build myself up enough and heal enough, to accept that I was not the one to blame for everything and to ease my incredible pain.

It is important for me to learn more and read about other people’s experiences as it helps me to on my road to recovery too.

Thanks again for your support.

And Rev would love to hear how you broke the hold your ex had on you...!

[Phoenixrise]

And you know what, at the moment I actually feel really terrible for saying anything that could be perceived as negative about my ex.

I understand I need to realise and accept the toxicity of the relationship. But I am finding it really hard to do so. It is like I have been conditioned to think a certain way over and over again almost daily for about 4 years in total and trying to break away from that feels devastating.

[Phoenixrise]

I also wanted to add that I had told my ex via text a couple of times that I needed time before I could speak to her and she said a number of times that she would wait for when I was ready and for me to let her know when I was.

The latest update is that I mentioned I may be ready to talk in a week or two and she has now turned around and said that she was seeing a therapist and that she was not ready to talk to me and that she would let me know when she was.

Gosh, like ok sure, just another thing that is messing with my head.

[Rev]

And you know what, at the moment I actually feel really terrible for saying anything that could be perceived as negative about my ex.

I understand I need to realise and accept the toxicity of the relationship. But I am finding it really hard to do so. It is like I have been conditioned to think a certain way over and over again almost daily for about 4 years in total and trying to break away from that feels devastating.

Just on this note - Recognizing that the relationship is toxic and speaking negatively about your ex - although could be connected - are not entirely the same thing.  That part, at least for me, was key in breaking free. In fact, for me it became very important for me to be careful in the early days to not get angry until it was safe for me to do so because I was worried about "becoming anger itself".

Also - thank you for correcting my perception about your ex's sexual orientation. For one, it puts boundaries around what for you is personal and what is available for discussion here. And that is a healthy thing.  And for two, it gives you the opportunity to affirm what you do know as opposed to searching for answers to questions that will be difficult to find.  I would concurr that that part of the sexual toxicity has to do with intimacy issues that run deep. Especially true if you suspect BPD with NPD traits.  This was truly the case for me, and as I write this, I am aware that in my words lie some of my own projections. My ex is an adopted child, found her brother through a DNA service and ended up having a full-blown relationship with him.  So, thanks again.  You are likely correct that sexual orientation is not the issue.

It will most certainly share with you what step by step process I followed to break my ex.

Talk soon.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[Phoenixrise]

Just on this note - Recognizing that the relationship is toxic and speaking negatively about your ex - although could be connected - are not entirely the same thing.  That part, at least for me, was key in breaking free. In fact, for me it became very important for me to be careful in the early days to not get angry until it was safe for me to do so because I was worried about "becoming anger itself".

Also - thank you for correcting my perception about your ex's sexual orientation. For one, it puts boundaries around what for you is personal and what is available for discussion here. And that is a healthy thing.  And for two, it gives you the opportunity to affirm what you do know as opposed to searching for answers to questions that will be difficult to find.  I would concurr that that part of the sexual toxicity has to do with intimacy issues that run deep. Especially true if you suspect BPD with NPD traits.  This was truly the case for me, and as I write this, I am aware that in my words lie some of my own projections. My ex is an adopted child, found her brother through a DNA service and ended up having a full-blown relationship with him.  So, thanks again.  You are likely correct that sexual orientation is not the issue.

It will most certainly share with you what step by step process I followed to break my ex.

Talk soon.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

Thank you so much Rev, I am grateful for your support and validation, it means so very much and has been incredibly helpful.

I also thank you for sharing some very personal parts of your story. I am so sorry that you went through what you did and I am so proud to see you using your experience to support people that obviously need it so much.

I am certainly ok to talk about aspects of my sexual orientation so no worries there, but there are parts about the sexual relationship between me and my ex that I just don't feel comfortable sharing, so thank you for validating and respecting my boundaries on this.

I can relate to sexual intimacy toxicity as I previously said. My ex mentioned some very strange and rather tragic/sick things in the beginning about some experiences in her younger years, that had me feeling very upset, very angry towards her parents and just so sorry for her. 

For instance when she was little, she said that they shared a house with a heap of relatives for a period of time, so as there were limited bedrooms, she had to share her room with her brother, mother and father. And apparently another man (not the father) went into their room to have sex with her mother, (while they were all in the same room). This is obviously just horrendous and unfortunately there were other stories that she shared that were just so off and wrong, that would have caused her further sexual trauma, no doubt about it.

Knowing this happened to her, makes it particularly hard to just write her off as I know she has had a very toxic upbringing. It is pretty heart breaking stuff.

[Rev]

A

[Rev]

A note about making that "subjective" list.

The things that I listed objectively happened. The subjective part was in the evaluation of why they happened, who was at fault, etc...  For those early times, I was caught in such a shame spiral that I needed to keep things pretty black and white in my head until I healed enough to start looking at myself, why I had reacted the way I had in certain situations, especially where I had suppressed numerous reg flags.

[Rev]

I will most certainly share with you what step by step process I followed to break my ex.

Talk soon.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

Don't know what happened to my list - seems to have disappeared. So I am going to put it up again.

Here is what I did.  As a preamble, I was in such rough shape that I couch surfed with two different friends for a total of six weeks while I got the process of divorce started. At no time was I feeling confident to even let my ex know where I was and who I was staying with. In the first month, I drove a total of 5000 kms (3500 miles) in during the night time listening to music.
Thankfully, I had an entire month of vacation and did not need to go in to work during that time.

1) I gave myself 72 hours to have a pity party. And at the end of that, I told myself that getting on with my life was a project.

2) I made a list of all the things that had happened during the relationship - see the above note about the list itself. Every time I felt like I had lost something, and then started to miss her, I read the list.

3) I enlisted three friends to keep me accountable to my promises - kind of like how a person in AA has a sponsor. These people were supportive and yet could speak to me openly if they felt like I was slipping.

4) I did CBT with a therapist who had experience with abused men.

5) I consumed all the crappy YouTube videos and podcasts I could find until such time as I stopped ruminating about the breakup and could focus more on what I could do to heal. Then I moved to reading more legitimate stuff. For YouTube, Dr. Ramini was really good.

6) Throughout this time, I stayed off of alcohol for the most part. I am not an alcoholic, but I also told myself that now was not the time to become one.

7) I kept my conversations with my ex to a strict minimum while negotiating my separation and as soon as she signed it, I blocked her and went completely no contact. A month later, when she showed up at my place of work with her brother and some personal effects in hand, I had my lawyer write a cease and desist.

8) When I later suffered PTSD, I did trauma work to better understand the impact of the relationship on my nervous system.

9) I enlisted a life-coach who helped me focus on my own personal talents and goals, things that my ex had continually worked to erode in me.

10) I started dating again, but only to be friends first - that was very clear on my dating site profile. In fact, the person I am with now was in fact an existing friend (not one of the three) who was my "dating coach". She eventually came to me and said, "You know Rev, have you ever thought..."  We are getting married next year.  There is life after these relationships.

If I can think of anything else, I'll let you know. Hopefully this is helpful in some way.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[SinisterComplex]

Don't know what happened to my list - seems to have disappeared. So I am going to put it up again.

Here is what I did.  As a preamble, I was in such rough shape that I couch surfed with two different friends for a total of six weeks while I got the process of divorce started. At no time was I feeling confident to even let my ex know where I was and who I was staying with. In the first month, I drove a total of 5000 kms (3500 miles) in during the night time listening to music.
Thankfully, I had an entire month of vacation and did not need to go in to work during that time.

1) I gave myself 72 hours to have a pity party. And at the end of that, I told myself that getting on with my life was a project.

2) I made a list of all the things that had happened during the relationship - see the above note about the list itself. Every time I felt like I had lost something, and then started to miss her, I read the list.

3) I enlisted three friends to keep me accountable to my promises - kind of like how a person in AA has a sponsor. These people were supportive and yet could speak to me openly if they felt like I was slipping.

4) I did CBT with a therapist who had experience with abused men.

5) I consumed all the crappy YouTube videos and podcasts I could find until such time as I stopped ruminating about the breakup and could focus more on what I could do to heal. Then I moved to reading more legitimate stuff. For YouTube, Dr. Ramini was really good.

6) Throughout this time, I stayed off of alcohol for the most part. I am not an alcoholic, but I also told myself that now was not the time to become one.

7) I kept my conversations with my ex to a strict minimum while negotiating my separation and as soon as she signed it, I blocked her and went completely no contact. A month later, when she showed up at my place of work with her brother and some personal effects in hand, I had my lawyer write a cease and desist.

8) When I later suffered PTSD, I did trauma work to better understand the impact of the relationship on my nervous system.

9) I enlisted a life-coach who helped me focus on my own personal talents and goals, things that my ex had continually worked to erode in me.

10) I started dating again, but only to be friends first - that was very clear on my dating site profile. In fact, the person I am with now was in fact an existing friend (not one of the three) who was my "dating coach". She eventually came to me and said, "You know Rev, have you ever thought..."  We are getting married next year.  There is life after these relationships.

If I can think of anything else, I'll let you know. Hopefully this is helpful in some way.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

You may have got a helping hand from a sinister dude as well who just so happens to appear on this board like a super hero when a homie is down and out...I kid I kid. 

Hijack and humor over... ;-)

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Rev]

You may have got a helping hand from a sinister dude as well who just so happens to appear on this board like a super hero when a homie is down and out...I kid I kid. 

Hijack and humor over... ;-)

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

LOLOLOL... Entirely possible.  Entirely possible.

[Phoenixrise]

A note about making that "subjective" list.

The things that I listed objectively happened. The subjective part was in the evaluation of why they happened, who was at fault, etc...  For those early times, I was caught in such a shame spiral that I needed to keep things pretty black and white in my head until I healed enough to start looking at myself, why I had reacted the way I had in certain situations, especially where I had suppressed numerous reg flags.

Thanks so much for sharing what you did to move on with your life Rev, very inspiring.

I too feel I have been in a shame spiral and thanks for naming this. So now I am really seeing that I just need to take some time to build myself back up, let myself do the things I want to do, like go to the beach, watch a movie that I want to watch, like lots of positive experiences. Not beat myself up or shame myself anymore, or perhaps start with not shaming myself as much and building on that.

I need to speak to people that are good for me, find a therapist that is aware of what CNPD and BPD are and the affects they have on people in relationship to them. At the moment I need lots of non judgement from others and myself, because I am feeling unusually high sensitivity on perceived judgments from others and from myself, which can set off my shame spiral and so it goes on, any reason really to shame myself. At least I can see this now, very clearly and how this type of behaviour is hurting me and my chances to progress.

Then once I am feeling like I have built myself up more then I can look at why this happened with a bit more depth, look at triggers, trauma etc, but not just yet, it will come though. My resilience will also be strengthened in time and I won't be so concerned about being judged by others. That I can choose to take on board constructive criticism as need be, but not being so sensitive to judgemental people. Because people that really care about you are not judgemental and that also includes myself, I need to take care of myself and self-love is another big aspect of healing.

So this is going to be a healing journey, not an over night fix, I hope to try and take things a day at a time though, be in the moment more.

I am feeling a little bit better about myself though. I actually said no to a job yesterday (I am a freelancer) because I just felt too depleted, it would have been an incredible opportunity but I put my health first which is a big thing for me.

Some days are better than others still, but that's ok, I will get there.

I want to include some of your tips on my healing journey too Rev, so thanks again for sharing.

It really has been so helpful to be able to speak about it here.

[Phoenixrise]

LOLOLOL... Entirely possible.  Entirely possible.

Thanks for the laugh you two, Rev and SC.  

[Phoenixrise]

Thanks for the laugh you two, Rev and SC.