Answer or not?

[Tortuga50550]

Hi everyone.

I live with my mother and my BPD father. He's now on vacations, so it's been just me and my mom for a while. I've decided to go NC (or nearly) for the moment, to give me some peace of mind till he comes back. If my father called and wanted to talk to me, I would tell my mother to tell him that I was either at my job or at University.

During a month it has worked. But today he send a very loving text wich I choose to not answer .I felt I wasn't mentally prepared for that, and I'm feeling a little bit sick. But now he send another text, less lovely, and has started to call to my whatsapp.

It triggered me. He's the type to go nots when me or my mother are not answering his calls, and he tends to call you 7 times in a row, leaving angry voice mails each time, and then scolding you for not having answered. He allways did that when I didn't arrive at home at my normal hour (wich means arriving just 5 minutes later than usual). He still does.

It makes me anxious, and sad, and defenetly angry. I don't know if answer him or not. From one hand, I haven't told him clearly that I didn't want to talk to him. After our big fight, I've been keeping my distances, but he doesn't understand why (or doesn't want to). I also live with him, so things could turn sour if I don't answer I guess? But on the other hand, I really, really don't want to talk to him. I don't think I have a good excuse not to, but I really do not want to. It just makes me feel more peaceful.

My mother has told me to either talk to him or tell him that I don't want to because I'm mad at him. But I don't find it that simple. It's not that I'm mad at him. Well, yes, I am, but it's not only that. I fear him too, I think.

I don't know if I'm making any sense. What would you recommend me to do?

[kells76]

Hi Tortuga50550;

It makes me anxious, and sad, and defenetly angry. I don't know if answer him or not. From one hand, I haven't told him clearly that I didn't want to talk to him. After our big fight, I've been keeping my distances, but he doesn't understand why (or doesn't want to). I also live with him, so things could turn sour if I don't answer I guess? But on the other hand, I really, really don't want to talk to him. I don't think I have a good excuse not to, but I really do not want to. It just makes me feel more peaceful.

It can be OK that you don't want to talk on the phone at that moment. It would be very normal -- I'm sure you can imagine yourself calling up a friend, and the friend saying "Sorry, it's not a good time to talk -- I can do 5:30 on Tuesday instead" and that would be just fine with you. Your friend would not have to explain to you the reasons why not.

A way forward for you could be -- you aren't required to tell your father that you don't want to talk to him. Your own personal reasons are good enough for you, and you don't have to JADE about them (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain). You could think about, instead, a "BIFF" statement (Brief, Informative, Friendly, and Firm), perhaps in a text or WhatsApp message:

Hi Dad; Sorry, can't talk right now -- able to do Friday at 3pm

This would be a way where you don't explain anything you don't want to, and you also would have control over when you talk. If you didn't want to talk on Friday at 3pm, you could just say "Sorry, can't talk -- will be away from phone" or "Sorry, can't chat right now" or something that is brief and firm. Notice that you didn't ask things like "Does that work for you?" or "Is that okay?" Those just open doors for more conflict and argument. You are allowed to firmly say what you are able to do, and it's not unkind.

Hope those are some ideas for a way forward;

kells76

[Riv3rW0lf]

My mother has told me to either talk to him or tell him that I don't want to because I'm mad at him. But I don't find it that simple. It's not that I'm mad at him. Well, yes, I am, but it's not only that. I fear him too, I think.

I don't know if I'm making any sense. What would you recommend me to do?

It jumped at me that your mother, knowing your father's reactivity, is still recommending you either :
- push your own needs aside to feed your father's emotional needs by talking to him
Or
- trigger your father by telling him you are mad at him (which is absolutely not how a pwBPD should be handled, and she must know that since she knows him).

I think you ought to reconsider what you will be discussing with your mother in the future... By the sound of it, it looks like if she can send you to the wolf to save herself (classic karpman with you as persecutor and her as rescuer and your father as victim), she will.

Your mother MUST know by now that telling your father you "won't speak to him because you are angry at him" will only cause more problems for you down the road, no?

I know you have had some very nice moments with your mother since your father left, and that you feel closer to her right now... But remember : she is likely ALSO afraid of your father, so if she can direct his attention on you, it is likely she will.

I'm sorry, but I think a lot of people here had to, at one point or another, realize that their codependant parent was never truly looking to protect them either, most time they are also emotionally immature and enmeshed and will throw their children under the bus if they have to to save themselves..

I recommend sticking to your boundary i.e., not speaking with him. But also NOT mentioning your emotional reasons, and just stating something like : "Sorry, I can't speak on the phone right now. I will catch up with you at another moment."

[Couscous]

I agree with RW, and also suggest you tell your mother something like, "Mom, I appreciate your concern, but I would appreciate it if you would let me handle this."

[Tortuga50550]

Thank you all for your posts. I was really anxious at that time, so I really appreciate that you answered me.

kells76, it's really a good advice what you gave me. If he hadn't contact us before, I would have followed it. Unfortunately, I've been using that one since he left. He calls on a regular basis at home, and I told my mother to allways tell him that I was working or doing school projetcs.  But after a month it's very suspicious, and I know that excuse wouldn't have work.

Riv3rW0lf, I do understand your point on view, and I partially agree with it. My mother is afraid of my father, that's true. And I do think she hasn't always be emotionaly there for me, at least not the way I wanted her to. The problem is that I don't think she is sending me to the wolves to save herself. When I confront my father, it usually backfires even more on her, and she knows it. Each time I had a problem with him, he takes it even harder on her, and usually threatens to take legal action (like divorcing and taking custody of me when I was a child). Plus, she was the one who had helped me in the first place to be NC with my dad, by lying to him that I was at work. So I don't think she did it to save herself, but more because she really thinks it's the best thing to do.

As you imagine, I ended up telling him to stop calling. In a normal situation, I would have used the "I can't today, call you another day" excuse. But then he would have asked the date and time. Or he would have wait some days, call again, see me not responding and repeating the same cycle again. I know this patter quite well, and I know it would have stressed me so much for the long run. I also live with him, so it's not like I keep the NC forever. At his return, he would have confronted me about my distance. Even worse, he could perfectly return sooner to confront me for not answering his calls. So I concluded that either way, I would have had a nasty confrontation with him, better choose the one where I stay in peace for a month.

I left him a voice message. I speak politely that I had seen his messages, but that I wanted to go NC for the moment. I told him I was angry after all that has happened, and that I couldn't trust him. And I ended by saying "I think it would be better for the future of our relationship to stop calling each other till your return." I was anxious, but I'm honestly quite proud that I was able to say that phrase. And surprisengly...he listened. He hasn't called me, nor texted me since. He's still in contact with my mom, and asks about how we're doing, but hasn't made any scene at all. At least not to us.

Will he be mad at his return? Not sure. Probably. Am I anxious? Yes. But at least I'll have some more weeks of peace. If there's a confrontation at his return, it wouldn't surprise me. But it was meant to happen sooner or later.

Anyway, I really thank you for your answers. I've always felt terribly alone when navigating my relationship with my BPDfather, so being able to be heard like this really makes me feel less lonely.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Tortuga,

I am glad the course of actions you decided to take worked for the best and brought you some peace.

It happened too, where I said things to my BPD mother that I thought would backfire right away, but it sometimes ended up in her actually giving me space for a while. I could grasp that she was angry, and hurt, but my anxiety was my own, she wasn't adding to it. One of the main characterics of BPD that makes it so hard to work with them is their unpredictability, after all. And I think I forget this unpredictability can go both ways.

Sending support your way. Enjoy your month of respite.