Updates and more harassment (joyyy)

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi all! So, first, some good news! My lawyer was FINALLY able to get a settlement offer together after some appraisals we were waiting on came through. So, now the ball is in the court of my uBPDSTBXh and his lawyer (the slimy personal injury guy).

A new judge was assigned to our case, so they had to have audience with him earlier this week. The STBX's lawyer tried to play the, "he was a homemaker" card to try to demonstrate why STBX would be entitled to any additional funds or maintenance. Like the old one, the new judge did not buy it. Add another point to our column there.

That all said, the weekend prior, STBX had requested that he be allowed to use my garage to do a detailing job he scheduled on Sunday. My lawyer advised me to allow it (one, so as not to deny him income; and two, so that he could get some of his stuff out of the house). I agreed and we sent them a reply letter on Friday. His lallygagging lawyer apparently did not communicate with him that day, so STBX popped up unannounced on my doorstep that night to ask me if it was okay. And proceeded to petition me to end the divorce process - of course. I finally got him out of the house after two hours, but then his seeing me kicked off the phone and text harassment again.

I have not replied to anything, but he continues to send me message after message, begging, pleading, and cajoling, claiming he will go to therapy, claiming he will contribute to household finances, etc. I thought we were done with this "phase," but no.

I was gone for most of the day when he came on Sunday, but of course he had to stay late to clean up, and he came in and started haranguing me again. I told him I didn't want to talk about it. He kept trying to touch me and I had to keep forcefully telling him to stop. Funny, though, even when I was upset, it used to feel good to have his hand on my back or shoulder. This time, I felt nothing. I think my body is caught up to my mind.

I also don't feel compelled to answer him or caretake him. He keeps trying to foist the responsibility for his feelings onto me and I just won't accept it. I think that shows progress.

It's unnerving how fixated and obsessed he is with me though. Has anyone else dealt with this kind of relentlessness? He says he isn't on dating sites and isn't looking for anyone else, but I wish he would find someone so he could move on. I don't think it's going to happen any other way.

[WitzEndWife]

Hi all! So, first, some good news! My lawyer was FINALLY able to get a settlement offer together after some appraisals we were waiting on came through. So, now the ball is in the court of my uBPDSTBXh and his lawyer (the slimy personal injury guy).

A new judge was assigned to our case, so they had to have audience with him earlier this week. The STBX's lawyer tried to play the, "he was a homemaker" card to try to demonstrate why STBX would be entitled to any additional funds or maintenance. Like the old one, the new judge did not buy it. Add another point to our column there.

That all said, the weekend prior, STBX had requested that he be allowed to use my garage to do a detailing job he scheduled on Sunday. My lawyer advised me to allow it (one, so as not to deny him income; and two, so that he could get some of his stuff out of the house). I agreed and we sent them a reply letter on Friday. His lallygagging lawyer apparently did not communicate with him that day, so STBX popped up unannounced on my doorstep that night to ask me if it was okay. And proceeded to petition me to end the divorce process - of course. I finally got him out of the house after two hours, but then his seeing me kicked off the phone and text harassment again.

I have not replied to anything, but he continues to send me message after message, begging, pleading, and cajoling, claiming he will go to therapy, claiming he will contribute to household finances, etc. I thought we were done with this "phase," but no.

I was gone for most of the day when he came on Sunday, but of course he had to stay late to clean up, and he came in and started haranguing me again. I told him I didn't want to talk about it. He kept trying to touch me and I had to keep forcefully telling him to stop. Funny, though, even when I was upset, it used to feel good to have his hand on my back or shoulder. This time, I felt nothing. I think my body is caught up to my mind.

I also don't feel compelled to answer him or caretake him. He keeps trying to foist the responsibility for his feelings onto me and I just won't accept it. I think that shows progress.

It's unnerving how fixated and obsessed he is with me though. Has anyone else dealt with this kind of relentlessness? He says he isn't on dating sites and isn't looking for anyone else, but I wish he would find someone so he could move on. I don't think it's going to happen any other way.

[ForeverDad]

... but I wish he would find someone so he could move on. I don't think it's going to happen any other way.

After my divorce was final, a few times back in court and then seeking custody (which I got) and majority time (which I didn't get until a couple years later) this was my conversation with son's lawyer/GAL.

I told GAL I hoped ex would just get married and not focus on me as much.  Gal said, "No one would marry her."  She was right, my ex never got married again.

[BigOof]

Try the "grey rock" method.

[WitzEndWife]

Well that's, I guess, the healthiest thing, ForeverDad, but also doesn't help her move on. Mine keeps doing things, like sending me listings for houses that he wants us to get together and then saying things like, "I know you don't ever want to hear from me again, but..." and promising this fairytale life. That's the most insidious form of emotional blackmail, the enticing form. He will promise all of the things I've been yearning for and say he just wants to be there for me and make a home. But, if that was ever really a possibility, why did he wait for me to want to divorce him to do it?

He needs to just imagine a life with someone else. I don't know if he ever will, but I want him to. Even though the illusion of it, especially at the beginning, will sting.

[Notwendy]

It's not a possibility. He can't offer you stability and a home together. He's not emotionally stable and can't hold a job. He didn't wait until you divorced him to do these things you wished for. He didn't do them because he can't. Not then and not now.

What he can do is appeal to your emotions and that works for him. He's doing what has worked for him in the past, but it doesn't work for him any more. Words are just that, words.

Stay the course.

[PeteWitsend]

It's not a possibility. He can't offer you stability and a home together. He's not emotionally stable and can't hold a job. He didn't wait until you divorced him to do these things you wished for. He didn't do them because he can't. Not then and not now.

What he can do is appeal to your emotions and that works for him. He's doing what has worked for him in the past, but it doesn't work for him any more. Words are just that, words.

Stay the course.

Yep, talk is cheap.  And anyways, given the way BPDers say whatever comes to mind immediately, with no filter or concern, you should know better than to put any stock in any of their promises.

WEW it does sound like you're managing your feelings a lot better, and you handled a really awkward situation well.  I'm sure there ups and downs ahead, but remember this when you need to reassure yourself.  

[WitzEndWife]

He showed up with flowers, chocolates, and sparkling wine last night, all dressed up in a suit. Valentine's Day is also his birthday. I had spent the past couple of days up all night long with a sick dog, so I was beyond wiped out and did not want to fight or be forceful in any way because I knew I could not psychologically handle his big displays of emotion (sobbing and wailing, splitting, etc.).

I told him he wasn't supposed to just show up at my house and asked him to keep his distance from me in the house (he likes to crowd me and corner me and touch me a lot). I steered the conversation about us onto different topics several times and then he did end up leaving of his own accord, but of course I just ended up still feeling violated and depressed afterward.

Why does he always put me in a position where I feel I have to be absolutely mean to him in order to get my point across? I've told him not to come over unannounced. His lawyer has presumably told him this. Yet, he still does. I've told him I don't want to be with him or discuss the relationship. Yet, he still tries. He still pushes and pushes. He waits for me to have a vulnerable moment and then pulverizes me. I hate this.

[GaGrl]

You feel violated because you were violated.

Is it time for a restraining order?

[ForeverDad]

Why does he always put me in a position where I feel I have to be absolutely mean to him in order to get my point across?

Because it works for him, and it's easier to show up with candy and beg to get you to support him than to get a job.


I've told him not to come over unannounced. His lawyer has presumably told him this. Yet, he still does.

Because he knows you will probably let him in.


I've told him I don't want to be with him or discuss the relationship. Yet, he still tries.

Because he knows you will probably respond.

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 He still pushes and pushes.

Please don't let him in and avoid answering him.

He's violating your boundaries.  He's finding ways to violate them.

Lawyer said to let him work in your garage so he can make money.  That ought to be a one-time event.  Did lawyer tell you to let him into your home?  If he needs a restroom, let him go somewhere to a use one.  If he wants to come in to get a few things, tell him No, not without advance notice so you can have someone trusted with you, someone you know will support you sticking to your boundaries.

Sure you've been caught off guard.  We all were caught off guard, too often many times.  But "live and learn" and be more determined to stick to your boundaries.  They will surely need to be adjusted over time because once he realizes you're determined then he will slickly try to make end runs around them, just as happens in football games.  (I'm virtually clueless about football, but I at least know about the "end runs" and "moving goalposts" tactics.)

About restraining and protection orders, their purpose is to stop someone from violating your life and crossing the line.  Ask your lawyer whether you can set such limits.  He/she will know how to phrase it and list examples for a need to get one.

I recall my lawyer telling me about some of his prior clients.

My lawyer told me these examples.  He had a client who drove the interstate highway to and from work.  His order said not to go within 1000 feet or so of his ex.  Well, she worked in a building near the interstate and she claimed he was violating the order by driving past in the limited access highway. (I don't think that claim worked?)

Another client, described as nice but clueless, had a contrived restraining order against him but his divorce decree said he had to deliver wood to his ex's home.  So he was required to do something that his other order prohibited.  He would have been better just not doing it (better to violate by inaction rather than by action) but since she needed wood, he delivered it.  Maybe it would have worked if he had someone else deliver it, I don't know.  His reward for compliance with the divorce decree?  He was jailed for the violation of the other order.

This is a problem with one-sided orders.  It would have been best if you could convince the court that without any finding then BOTH of you should stay away from each other.  At least that would have put you on somewhat equal footing.

Regarding that last paragraph, I wrote that (where the man was the disadvantaged party) because most orders generally treat one as the aggressor and the other as the target or victim.  If you do end up facing an order anyway based on her unsubstantiated claims, then a last ditch solution could be to ask the court to order you BOTH to stay away from each other.  Effectively it appears the same (and avoids the abuser/victim perception), but it (also) puts her under the same restrictions as you.  Why?  Besides making the order an equal stay away order, there's a real possibility she may reach out to you (contrite), try to get you to violate the order and then report you (when triggered/angered again).  With her also required to keep her distance then it can be a protection for you.

[WitzEndWife]

I've told my lawyer what happened, but haven't heard back from her yet. Meanwhile, he's been texting nonstop. He's now back to the "I was wronged" phase, wherein I'm a cruel backstabber who traumatized him and clearly wants him dead because there is no way he can survive on his own.

I'm just going to stay silent and if he shows up again, try to block him from coming in.

This week has been rough. I have discussed with both of my vets (behaviorist and general) and said that I'm not willing to put my rescue dog through much more poking and prodding when he is so incredibly fearful. He's on enough medication to kill an elephant and he's still having all kinds of anxiety and physical problems. We're basically taking one last go at helping him out and if that doesn't work, I'm going to put him out of his misery. It's interesting how these two experiences in my life are kind of parallel. But the dog isn't manipulating me, so I can see clearly what the kindest thing for him is, even though it's painful for me.

I guess we kind of have to keep going through the same lessons over and over until we've learned them.

[Cat Familiar]

Like you, I’m a sucker for lost causes. Unrealized potential often remains just so, regardless (or in spite of) our efforts to support it.

Right now I’m surrendering to the fact that I can do nothing at this point to help my youngest cat with lymphoma.

A fixer personality is always looking for a project. As for me, I’m going to focus now upon fixing some of those FOO patterns that are so ingrained within me that I don’t even notice when they’re operating.

[WitzEndWife]

I think with me it's a lot of externalized/projected self care. Like, somewhere, I learned that focusing on my toys, animals, etc. was a way to weirdly get my needs met because I couldn't care for myself and I couldn't get my needs met by my FOO because they were busy and everything else was more important than me.

When I think of codependents, I don't consider myself to be overly mothering or nurturing, but I do like solving problems. However, I also don't feel compelled to fix everything. I think it's just feeling so much empathy for people and animals and even inanimate objects, outside of myself, to where I feel compelled to help in some way. But, really, deep down, it's about me. I have needs that need to be met that I often numb out and instead focus on someone else.

[Harv]

I understand about the animals. I believe my cats and dogs filled the void for me over the last year or two. I am also sorry for the situation with both the cat and the dog. I have lost 2 of my furry friends in the last year, both due to cancer.  Pets can be very beneficial, but they don't really make up for the intimacy and bond with another human. Sorry you are going through such tough times.

[Notwendy]

I think with me it's a lot of externalized/projected self care.

I have needs that need to be met that I often numb out and instead focus on someone else.

That is an aspect of co-dependency- doing for others what we wish for ourselves. I think it would be great to give some more of that care to yourself.

Please do not let your ex in if he shows up. Let your door be a boundary. Also your phone- don't reply.

[WitzEndWife]

Update: So, I discussed this with my lawyer and she told me to text him, "Please stop contacting me." He replied once, plaintively, saying, "Don't do this," but then the texts stopped. He did, however, revert back to posting (for my eyes only) Instagram stories. In them, he's this sad, pitiful soul, with the dog as his only companion. He will post video of himself sobbing and sobbing, same old song and dance.

Did I feel horrible and guilty at first? Yes, I did. But, also, I started thinking about how unkind it was to throw his survival and feelings onto me, as if the entire reason he had to exist was this relationship and I was the only person responsible for his happiness. That's mean to do to another person, right?

I remember years ago, when I was discarded by a boyfriend. Were there times when I wished that they knew how badly they'd hurt me? Yes. But would I have sent image after image of me sobbing my eyes out? No, of course not.

And, okay, let's pretend that worked. Okay, so I saw the sobbing videos, took pity on him, and took him back. Does a person really want someone who came back out of guilt or pity? Ew.

I guess I'll never understand it. I do still feel like a mean person for not wanting him, but I hope with time that will fade.

[ForeverDad]

If you'd rather not view his instagram stories and moods, do you have a trusted friend or family to monitor it, reducing the guilt trips you're exposed to?

Others here have done that when the negative contact (negative engagement) was just too much, whether emails, texts or in this case posts on social sites.

[PeteWitsend]

Not sure if this is good advice generally, but whenever I feel guilt over ending a r/s, or have gotten emotional pleas not to end it, or to reconsider my decision to end a relationship, I think of the worst thing(s) that person has said or done to me.

And after that, I find I really don't care that they're sad or crying, or whatever. 

In fact, while I remind myself that they were so manipulative, I have no way of knowing whether their tears are genuine or not, after I think about what they put me through, I usually hope they are.