Crossing the Line - Exiting the Theme Park Entirely

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am sure some of you are familiar with my extensive post over in the relationship section. It is time I came over to this side.



I have been being strung along and been playing the yo-yo game with my ex for months now, since I was kicked out in September. Details about all of that can be found in my previous post on the other Forum.



They say this is a roller coaster ride, yesterday I chose to get off the roller coaster. Finally.

Now I need to exit the theme park entirely, without being tempted by all of the flashy advertisements to stay in the theme park.



A number of people told me to be  Vigilant and on my guard about push-pull Dynamics and getting pulled back into the drama. I personally don't really think that's going to happen, but I'm sure that many of people have said that before.



Admittedly, the history shows that it's definitely a possibility. My ex and I have broken up twice already. Got together at the end of 2019, broke up in Fall of 2020, got back together in August of 21, kicked out again in September of 22.

So despite the fact that it feels like it is very much dead and behind me, and I'm not going to be hearing from her, history and other people's experience here has shown that that may be the case. I know right now I would be weak to such interactions,  which is why I need to get out of the theme park entirely

[OKrunch]

I am sure some of you are familiar with my extensive post over in the relationship section. It is time I came over to this side.



I have been being strung along and been playing the yo-yo game with my ex for months now, since I was kicked out in September. Details about all of that can be found in my previous post on the other Forum.



They say this is a roller coaster ride, yesterday I chose to get off the roller coaster. Finally.

Now I need to exit the theme park entirely, without being tempted by all of the flashy advertisements to stay in the theme park.



A number of people told me to be  Vigilant and on my guard about push-pull Dynamics and getting pulled back into the drama. I personally don't really think that's going to happen, but I'm sure that many of people have said that before.



Admittedly, the history shows that it's definitely a possibility. My ex and I have broken up twice already. Got together at the end of 2019, broke up in Fall of 2020, got back together in August of 21, kicked out again in September of 22.

So despite the fact that it feels like it is very much dead and behind me, and I'm not going to be hearing from her, history and other people's experience here has shown that that may be the case. I know right now I would be weak to such interactions,  which is why I need to get out of the theme park entirely

[Pook075]

I'm pretty much in the same boat.  Been separated since late July and haven't had much real contact since the winter holidays.  It's easy to say that I'm done when we don't communicate...but what if that changed?  I still have no idea how I'd respond other than to mention counseling and getting help.

The good news is if I got screamed at, I'd just hang up or walk away.  Not doing that anymore.

[OKrunch]

Yea Pook, I think that's one of the first breaking points. I did that yesterday. Didn't pick up the phone that I knew would just be screaming and accusatory bile. Didn't rise to bait in texts. She was angry that she got called out on a failed responsibility.

I know I'm not strong enough to say now if she was being nice and invited me over, if only to see my damn dogs, but the second i catch fury or an obvious attempt to fight, I'm nope-ing the hell out promptly.

[yellowbutterfly]

NO CONTACT is the best thing that ever happened to me. I choose not to respond if there are any attempts to reach out.

"exiting the theme park" as well here. AMAZING line

[OKrunch]

The NOT responding is the main focus for me right now.
I have conquered my need to reach out. That is behind me, but I am almost certain I will have check ins and maybe even spontaneous visits from her.
I know I would still be weak to an attempt by her of this nature, its still too fresh, and she knows I miss her, her daughter, our dogs, etc. She knows me very well, and is a very smart woman.

I still seem to be fixating on dates, patterns, and cycles, which is where my entire journey here on BPD Family began.
Has anyone else experienced an annual pattern like this before?

I know shes almost always depressed and easily triggered during winter.
She pushes people away in late summer early fall (almost in preparation for the above?)
She seems to work in this way.
January - March - Very stressed, depressed and super easily triggered.
April - May - Mood stabilizes, she begins feeling better and takes care of herself better. Is far less negative, but cautious.
June - August - "Dr. Jekyll" in full effect. She is "Normal" during this time of year. Since i Have known her, she has been the woman I "know" and love during this time of year.
September - November - Here, Mr. Eddie Hyde begins to show his face, and her downward turn towards depression, stress anger and paranoia begins again.
December - Usually tries to power through, tries enjoy Christmas and then just dissolves.

Soon, hopefully, I'll be in a place where I don't waste my time thinking about stuff like this,
but knowing these patterns will help with being on my guard to keep myself from being hurt again.

Just kind of getting my thoughts out of my head and into binary code as a mode of catharsis.

[Rev]

NO CONTACT is the best thing that ever happened to me. I choose not to respond if there are any attempts to reach out.

"exiting the theme park" as well here. AMAZING line

Agreed!

Dude - You did awesome.  Welcome to your new thread - aka your new life.

Rev

[OKrunch]

And the waves roll in.
I miss Dr Jekyll.
I wish SO DAMN MUCH she could just be that, be happy, and not stressed.

I hate having to stay angry at her.
When she is not dysregulating she really is a badass. I miss my valkyrie.

[Pook075]

And the waves roll in.
I miss Dr Jekyll.
I wish SO DAMN MUCH she could just be that, be happy, and not stressed.

I hate having to stay angry at her.
When she is not dysregulating she really is a badass. I miss my valkyrie.

I didn't get angry until late in the 3rd month of NC, and once I got there I didn't see any way past hating her for the rest of my life.  But like everything else, that will pass as you accept that she's mentally ill and not doing this to intentionally hurt you.  

The next realization for me (after the anger and acceptance) was that I am better off without her, without all the chaos and confusion in my life.  Sure, there's stuff I miss doing together, but I could do that stuff with almost anyone.  So I'm focused on rebuilding me and finding my passions.  I imagine that you're not too far off from doing that yourself.

I still have days where I wish the same thing- why can't she just hit a reset button and be the loving wife I once had?  The answer is that she's just not that person anymore, she's become consumed with decades of anger and regret.  I thought I'd enjoy watching her burn bridges with others since it proved I was right about her, but mostly it's just sad to me now.  I hope someday she gets treatment and finds true love again.

[OKrunch]

The next realization for me (after the anger and acceptance) was that I am better off without her, without all the chaos and confusion in my life.  Sure, there's stuff I miss doing together, but I could do that stuff with almost anyone.  So I'm focused on rebuilding me and finding my passions.  I imagine that you're not too far off from doing that yourself.

I too think this is around the corner for me Pook. Right now, it sucks to admit and part of me dreads it, but I know its the next step, and the shift in MY attitude, emotions and outlook of late certainly seems to indicate this next step isn't far off.
The waves certainly aren't what they used to be. They used to bowl me over and smash me against the rocks, now, they're thigh high at best and can stumble my footing a bit at their strongest.
Tide is going out.

[Pook075]

I too think this is around the corner for me Pook. Right now, it sucks to admit and part of me dreads it, but I know its the next step, and the shift in MY attitude, emotions and outlook of late certainly seems to indicate this next step isn't far off.
The waves certainly aren't what they used to be. They used to bowl me over and smash me against the rocks, now, they're thigh high at best and can stumble my footing a bit at their strongest.
Tide is going out.

You'll get there in your own time, there's no blueprint or timetable for healing.  But the more you accept that this was outside your control, the more you'll accept that it's time to move on and find your own joy again.

I'm rooting for you!

[tina7868]

Hey OKrunch!

Just wanted to say that I'm rooting for you too

[Red5]

(pook075 wrote)
"I am better off without her, without all the chaos and confusion in my life"

Yes, ... the peace and the quiet, ... the cessation of any further drama, trauma, and chaos is absolutely soul healing, ... the constant; heightened state of (amygdala/hippocampus) emotional response (constant) when she was here, ... that stress is extremely destructive to not only your emotional/mental health, but also your physical health as well (concurrently), ... lady on radio said one time, ... "if you stay in one of these relationships long-term, then be sure to sign yourself up for hypertension - stroke - heart attack" ...

Good luck OKrunch!

Red5

[Pook075]

lady on radio said one time, ... "if you stay in one of these relationships long-term, then be sure to sign yourself up for hypertension - stroke - heart attack"

I checked two of the three boxes in my early 40's (hypertension, heart attack).  Our bodies aren't meant to carry around incredible levels of stress day in/day out.  I was self-employed and working myself to the bone with zero support at home; that's no way to live life.  It literally almost killed me.

[OKrunch]

Ive been going over old posts here about people getting temp checks from their ex's, the topic of recycles and whatnot.

I am FLABBERGHASTED at how many direct quotes from other's BPDex's on here are VERBATIM things she has said to me,
Mostly when we reconciled back in August of 21.
"I know you probably don't want to hear from me but..." was one that stuck out a lot, as i saw it more than once here, and i've heard it more than once from her.

Im so glad to have such a good archive of others experiences to help me stay knowledgeable about what to look for.
I wish I had looked into this type of info on here before. It's making me see the disorder more than I ever have before, in real time, life examples of my own experience, which I though was so unique and clearly is NOT.

I will be keeping a mental notepad of these things so i recognize them when they happen. Not if, because I know she will try eventually. Probably somewhat soon. If past history is any indictor, which it seems to be, I don't think it'll go past late May before I get some sort of check in attempt. I know if it was done the right way, right now, I wouldn't be able to say no to certain things. Seeing the dogs, and intimacy being chief among them. I'll be the first to admit my known weaknesses.

Any common signs to look for ? things to be specifically aware of ?

[OKrunch]

I checked two of the three boxes in my early 40's (hypertension, heart attack).  Our bodies aren't meant to carry around incredible levels of stress day in/day out.  I was self-employed and working myself to the bone with zero support at home; that's no way to live life.  It literally almost killed me.

I've definitely noticed my constantly accelerated heart rate has gone back to mostly normal in the last few weeks. No more all day palm sweating either.
My sleep suffered most, and first, but that recovered a while ago,

[Rev]

.

Any common signs to look for ? things to be specifically aware of ?

That's a great question and I am sure each of us has different things to go through.  So I won't flood you and talk to you about the most common one.

I too experienced an really early calm and spent a fair bit of suppressing anger to make sure I could get my divorce signed.

About six months in I started to ruminate. I was really tough because the ruminations led me to some places that were not so kind - is in no self compassion.

I realized something through them - ruminations are the way that I was finding closure to so many questions that for obvious reasons, I was not going to get the answers from my ex.  So I needed to give them to myself.

The moral of the story - trust your own version of history and be kind to yourself when you speak to yourself. Eventually I stopped second guessing myself.

A bonus - healing takes its own time. Let things run the course they need to run.

Really happy that you have found your way here.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[Couscous]

I have heard that it takes 90 days of no contact to break the trauma bond. I noticed a real shift in myself when I crossed the 90 day mark. Maybe you could start crossing off the days on a calendar to help motivate you to stay the course?

[OKrunch]

I have heard that it takes 90 days of no contact to break the trauma bond. I noticed a real shift in myself when I crossed the 90 day mark. Maybe you could start crossing off the days on a calendar to help motivate you to stay the course?

Way ahead of you ! (5 days in fact!)
Ive been keeping a journal for about 2 months now, and the main focus of it lately has shifted to tracking No Contact and my own healing and improvements.

Possible end to my "homelessness" is very close.

[Couscous]

I know shes almost always depressed and easily triggered during winter.
She pushes people away in late summer early fall (almost in preparation for the above?)
She seems to work in this way.
January - March - Very stressed, depressed and super easily triggered.
April - May - Mood stabilizes, she begins feeling better and takes care of herself better. Is far less negative, but cautious.
June - August - "Dr. Jekyll" in full effect. She is "Normal" during this time of year. Since i Have known her, she has been the woman I "know" and love during this time of year.
September - November - Here, Mr. Eddie Hyde begins to show his face, and her downward turn towards depression, stress anger and paranoia begins again.
December - Usually tries to power through, tries enjoy Christmas and then just dissolves.

This looks like Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) to me. 41-83% (depending on the study) of pwBPD also have major depressive disorder, of which SAD is a subtype. 

[OKrunch]

That tracks, her childhood trauma is very well known to me. It was extensive, I know the BPD tendencies are just one of the many things she has to contend with in her own head. I do not envy her of that.

[OKrunch]

I really hope she does what she needs to, helps herself and her daughter. She was approaching something resembling healing and then the pre-teen parent stressors got her.

I do still believe she can one day manage her disorders, she WAS doing better.

It is still so hard, mostly at night, to let go of the visions of the future together I had
Our kids LOVED each other as soon as they met, that part, and the dogs, makes it all the harder.

Just dumping my thoughts here instead of getting tempted to reach out, or look at anything i shouldn't online.

Hopefully dwelling on the what where why how and when of a "temp check" or "reach out" will occur, will fade sooner now that ive got my head screwed on right.
'Im in an odd place.
I still miss her, want her, etc, but i feel like i finally SEE the disorder, the similarities to others stories here, he repeated behaviors, etc.
Im still hopeful for her improvement, and lament heavily the loss of who i thought would be my wife.
Conversely, Im not experiencing the anxiety i was, I've stood up for myself while remaining polite.
I no longer really care if she's seeing someone else, Im enjoying doing so myself. its been refreshing, and im not taking it too seriously.
Im finally going to be moving, ill get my custody back to 50/50.
Spring is going to be good.

[Couscous]

I thought this was very interesting:

Many experts have noticed that depression often presents differently in patients with BPD than in those without. In other words, the quality of depression seems to be different in BPD. For example, whereas depression is typically associated with feelings of sadness or guilt, depression in BPD has been described as being associated with feelings of anger, deep shame (i.e., feeling emotionally like a bad or evil person)

https://www.verywellmind.com/bpd-and-depression-425421

Since it is the anger and deep shame that triggers their destructive behavior it makes sense that if they are affected by the lack of sunlight during fall and winter then they would have a lot more BPD symptoms during that time of year.

[OKrunch]

We live in the northeast too, so winter is a B***h here

[Couscous]

Has she made the connection between winter and her moods?

[OKrunch]

Yes. She definitely knows about it, has even mentioned wanting to live in warmer climates.
She's very aware she has CPTSD and BPD traits too.

[Couscous]

Yes. She definitely knows about it, has even mentioned wanting to live in warmer climates.
She's very aware she has CPTSD and BPD traits too.

Oh, well then the ball is in her court. There are a lot of resources out there that she could avail herself of, but perhaps she hasn’t yet “hit bottom”, so to speak. Which really is too bad because BPD is supposedly quite amenable to treatment and often goes into remission.

I wish you all the best in your quest to fully exit the theme park.

[OKrunch]

Oh, well then the ball is in her court. There are a lot of resources out there that she could avail herself of, but perhaps she hasn’t yet “hit bottom”, so to speak. Which really is too bad because BPD is supposedly quite amenable to treatment and often goes into remission.

I wish you all the best in your quest to fully exit the theme park.

This is part of whats hard in detaching right now.
I believe in her ability to do the work, shes incredibly smart and dedicated when she is regulated and on task.
She IS a caring person, I saw that plenty in her parenting, which included my son.
She eventually pushed him away too, but when she was regulated, she was good.
If she can really get a handle on that sometime in the next few years, id find it hard not to have a rational conversation about how we could navigate.
But there's so much damage too, so much that would have to precede this.
Consistency (like, over a LONG period of time), therapy, time, space etc.
It's not something I hope for anymore, but I do still think it is possible.

[tina7868]

This is part of whats hard in detaching right now.
I believe in her ability to do the work, shes incredibly smart and dedicated when she is regulated and on task.
She IS a caring person, I saw that plenty in her parenting, which included my son.
She eventually pushed him away too, but when she was regulated, she was good.
If she can really get a handle on that sometime in the next few years, id find it hard not to have a rational conversation about how we could navigate.
But there's so much damage too, so much that would have to precede this.
Consistency (like, over a LONG period of time), therapy, time, space etc.
It's not something I hope for anymore, but I do still think it is possible. 

There is a sense of balance in these sentences. You express difficulty in detaching, and then remind yourself that there was a lot of damage that occured (so it's not a complete loss).

She is on her own path. Letting her be, being clear on what you would accept from a relationship with her, and focusing on yourself sound like a winning combination. 

[OKrunch]

Tina,
Thank you. The past week has felt like the most clear headed ive been in recolectable memory.
I wish I could say im totally over it, and 100% sure on my ability to say no, set boundaries and whatnot if she were to reach out.
Not yet, but ill get there. There is no use in lying to myself or any of you, it would only stifle my progress.
Ill get there eventually.
I have read some horror stories here, of people that had ex's that did irredeemably horrid things.
She isn't that, but she has done some awfuly hurtful things to me, and I her, but I do honestly believe she can eventually properly manage her triggers and reactions.
In the 4 years I've known her, I've seen her make lots of progress.
She happens to be in a bit of a rut of late, but she has survived A LOT, and will survive this.
Same with me, I have lost far worse than this before. I have skirted the line of homelessness before.
Ive recovered before, and am already well on track to do so again. Both Mentally/Emotionally as well as residentially and financially.
Hopefully someday soon my "intuitive link" will fade and die too. It was once a boon, and is now a distraction
I'm just happy we have nothing left to fight about.
If she finds things to fight about, I have nothing left to fight back about, so I'd ignore that.

[OKrunch]

Man it really does come in waves. It's amazing how you can switch back and forth between being angry and hurt and affronted, to going back to missing them, over analyzing the things that you've said,  and coming up with every what if and if I had in the world.



Although it is outlined on my other post in the fixing Forum, last week I had to reach out to her about money that she owes me, which my therapist and I had very much predicted would turn volatile. It most certainly did. It may have been bad timing, I know she has a lot of parenting and work stress going on right now. Every time I reached out it's been extremely polite and not in the least way accusatory or hostile.  After all up until about a week ago I was still hoping to fix things.

A couple of days after she blew up about me asking about the money that was 2 months late in being repaid,  I had messaged her this past Sunday morning. All I asked was how she was doing and how her daughter was doing. Her daughter has been going through a hard time lately, and I love her daughter very much so I've been concerned.

She immediately started yelling at me about how she's going to pay me the money and to stop harassing her about it. I literally didn't say anything about the money. We ended up getting into a big verbal fight over the phone, She brought up money (that she had told me was forgiven and not to worry about, ages ago) from when she kicked me out the FIRST TIME, because I also had been laid of a few weeks prior then. She hasn't mentioned this money in almost 2 years. It was discussed in August of 2021, and never mentioned again.  and venomous statements were exchanged. She brought up money (that she had told me was forgiven and not to worry about, ages ago) from when she kicked me out the FIRST TIME, because I also had been laid of a few weeks prior then. She hasn't mentioned this money in almost 2 years. It was discussed in August of 2021, and never mentioned again.



Early Monday morning I sent the following message:
"I was just trying to see how you were doing yesterday, to have a normal conversation. That is all.

I had no intention of, or interest in discussing money.
You brought that up. Quite abruptly.
I'm sorry you were having an unpleasant day otherwise, but money is not what I care about and not what I was reaching out about and we both know it.
It hurts to continue to hear that you think I ever had a motive to be with you besides having wanted to love you.
I had a home and job before I met you, I'll have a home and a job when you're just somebody I used to know.
I do not need you to provide for me.
I don't use people that way, and never would. Plain and simple.

I never desire to fight with you.
I won't be in touch. You've made yourself abundantly clear there.
I've approached you with calm and care and I've been met with cruelty or cold rejection enough times. Point taken.

I didn't pay 1100 in backed bills when I left in 2020, because I had no job at the time.
I gave you $200 on Feb 12th.
So, that makes it 900 I owe you.

The 2 assistance repayments you said you'd send me equal 1600 total.
Subtract the 900 I owe you from that $1600, and we get $700 that you would send me.
Then we'd be completely square.
Scales balanced.

Be well. I go in peace."

now we come to the reason that I mentioned all of this.

Over the last few days I have been fine, but somehow today, I randomly began very much stressing over whether or not she received the above message. During our fighting and argument on Sunday she had mentioned "Going back to blocked mode"
which I kind of laughed about at the time because she used it like a threat. She knows it has bothered me in the past and was using it in a manipulative way.
And yet, here I am worrying whether or not she actually received my message that I sent on Monday morning.
I just stopped myself from calling and hanging up. Because I know if I call and it rings I'm not blocked. I shouldn't care about that crap anymore and I came to post here instead.
Just journaling and keeping myself honest with myself.

[OKrunch]

So I have date number three with the woman I have been seeing tonight. I'm really excited and I have been enjoying the time we have been spending together. It has been eye-opening to see the pace at which normal relationships are supposed to start. We have not had any discussions about relationships or exclusivity or anything like that, we're just kind of enjoying the time we're spending together.



With each day of no contact that passes, I worry a little bit more about when my ex is going to come sniffing around to find out what's going on in my life. I've never been good at maintaining no contact, so I know actual periods of Silence from me will seem strange.

I'm sure whatever pretext for reaching out she's going to have is going to involve the dogs, maybe the house, or she might just stop by my work like she did 2 years ago when we were broken up.

Anytime that we don't talk for an extended. Of time, one of the first things she asks me is if I'm seeing anyone. She did it back in November, And she did it more than once during our first break up.

Yet I have been screamed at as invasive and inappropriate when I've asked the same question.

It makes me nervous to get into any sort of new relationship.

I know it will still be a long time before contact from her gives me no emotional response.

I've never wanted to separate like this before, during our entire break up last time I wanted to get back together and I stayed single.

These are odd Waters that I've never swam, and I'll admit that I'm pretty nervous about it.

I'm going to be moving soon, and I'm sure she'll notice that when the camper is gone from my work parking lot.

I know I shouldn't be worrying about what she's thinking or what she might do or think, but it's just damn hard not to.

[OKrunch]

Oh. And ex's birthday is Tuesday. I've never not said something or given her something on her birthday.

I don't like how it's approach feels.

[OKrunch]

Woke up feeling awful today. I don't know why her birthday approaching tomorrow is driving me so nuts.
Temptation to reach out is pretty bad today and I know it will be tomorrow. Not that I should know this, but she's pretty much gone into dark mode as far as social media is concerned.

I don't get why I keep switching back and forth between being happy that we don't have contact and missing it, and wanting it.

I worry that a new relationship would be boring.

Mostly I guess I just need to admit that I really miss her today and I don't want to not hear from her.

I was painted white very temporarily at the beginning of january. I'm trying to wrap my head around that and understand how and why that happened so fast.

[cranmango]

I hear you friend. I just went through that last week with my ex’s birthday. Your heart is still catching up to your head.

Can you make plans for tomorrow? Something to stay busy?

[OKrunch]

We're getting a Nor'Easter . Ill be in full hermit mode tomorrow.

I had an awesome weekend, which involved seeing other people, and it went well.

Yet, I still wake up, 6 months from Discard, Living in a damn camper, and I still miss her.
Hoping she will reach out. Yet, knowing what will happen if she does and I reply.

WTF.

[cranmango]

Milestones (birthdays, holidays, etc) bring the feelings back. We are grieving the end of our relationships. Grief is nonlinear, and it takes time to work its way out of our system.

If you feel the urge to reach out to her, read some of your earlier posts instead. Remember all the events that led you here.

If you feel the urge to reach out to her, reach out to someone else instead. Call a friend, talk about the weather, anything to take your mind off it for a moment.

If she reaches out to you, remember that you do not have to respond.

Tomorrow is just a Tuesday. It feels big right now. But this time next year, it will feel like just another day.

[OKrunch]

Yea, I should know. Ive been through one major discard already that lasted 9 months. She's sticking to her seasonal pattern pretty well here. Its the next few months that concern me.

[BigEasyHeart]

Ive been through one major discard already that lasted 9 months.

Really? Wow. Were you NC that whole time? What happened to end the discard?

Hang in there. I know it's rough right now but it sounds like you are doing a lot of good things to take care of yourself.

[OKrunch]

Really? Wow. Were you NC that whole time? What happened to end the discard?

Hang in there. I know it's rough right now but it sounds like you are doing a lot of good things to take care of yourself.

We were together from Oct 2019 to Nov 2020 - She split on me hard, kicked my son and I out (we had moved in together at the start of Covid, March 2020) And went right into rebound mode with a guy from December 2020 to June 2021.
We were in touch throughout that period.

I think the longest we've ever been fully NC has been about 6-8 Weeks, Dec/Jan of 2020/21 and More recently, We split in much the same way at the End of Sept. (after getting engaged in June) We were NC All of Oct and into Nov.
All the details are in my other thread in the "fixing" forum.

8/10 times im usually the one who has reached out, but she was the one to do so after both those longer stretches of NC.

[BigEasyHeart]

We were together from Oct 2019 to Nov 2020 - She split on me hard, kicked my son and I out (we had moved in together at the start of Covid, March 2020) And went right into rebound mode with a guy from December 2020 to June 2021.
We were in touch throughout that period.

I think the longest we've ever been fully NC has been about 6-8 Weeks, Dec/Jan of 2020/21 and More recently, We split in much the same way at the End of Sept. (after getting engaged in June) We were NC All of Oct and into Nov.
All the details are in my other thread in the "fixing" forum.

8/10 times im usually the one who has reached out, but she was the one to do so after both those longer stretches of NC.

Wow, it really sounds like you've been through it. It sounds like you're on the path to a better place now though my friend. I know it's tough as I'm around 6 months apart and it is still difficult for me. It is much better than it was at the beginning but I still feel like I have a ways to go.

[OKrunch]

Wow, it really sounds like you've been through it. It sounds like you're on the path to a better place now though my friend. I know it's tough as I'm around 6 months apart and it is still difficult for me. It is much better than it was at the beginning but I still feel like I have a ways to go.

Im feeling much the same. I get to move in a few weeks. New Home, New Start.
I endured a hell of an Autumn and Winter, Spring and Summer are looking much better.

[BigEasyHeart]

Funny, same here, hopefully I'll be moved into a new place in April. I hope it all works out!

[cranmango]

Hey OKrunch—how’s the Nor’easter so far?

[Go3737]

My STBXW's birthday was this past weekend. I had her and the kids (and grandchild) over to my new apartment for a birthday dinner, the first get together since our breakup.
It was a fun time actually. Everyone behaved.
However after they all left, leaving me to clean up the place, I broke down for a few minutes. How could she do this to us? We were best friends for 40 years. The last one was horrendous with her constant drunkin rages.

Over the spring we separated for 3 months in which time I remained totally single. Now I started dating. I've been out with one very nice woman twice and a third date is pending. Yes Ex wife asks regularly if i am seeing someone. It's none of her business.

Everyone says I should be happy. Why dont I feel that way?

[OKrunch]

Length warning hahah - I've got a lot on my mind today, and im stuck inside with the snow, so I'm dumping my brain out here.           

CranMango - Nor'Easter is Rippin' - Already accumulated more than I had expected. Surefire plan to get trapped inside with my invasive thoughts on Ex's BD (When All I'd TRULY like to be doing is being curled up at home with her the kids and the dogs)

It was a fun time actually. Everyone behaved.
However after they all left, leaving me to clean up the place, I broke down for a few minutes. How could she do this to us? We were best friends for 40 years. The last one was horrendous with her constant drunkin rages.
Over the spring we separated for 3 months in which time I remained totally single. Now I started dating. I've been out with one very nice woman twice and a third date is pending. Yes Ex wife asks regularly if i am seeing someone. It's none of her business.
Everyone says I should be happy. Why dont I feel that way?

Go3737 - I couldn't agree more. This is my 2nd Major breakup with her. The first one, I stayed single, and she IMMEDIATLEY got into another relationship, and for months dealt with what I now know was textbook triangulation, for MONTHS. Then she finally left him, and we got back together. This time around, she did the same thing, but didnt make the relationship "public".
Here I am now, 6 months after major discard #2, and ive gone out with a really awesome woman 3 times, and we hooked up last weekend. Shes really great, i like her, were communicating well and the pace is HEALTHY. Yet i Still found mysefl driving home after our date last weekend, comparing her to my ex. Thinking Ex and I have more in common. More shared views, hobbies, opinions.

 However, Here I am still waking up on EX's Birthday wishing for nothing more than a text from her. Just an update, a hello. Even though I was reeled in, recycled, discarded and scammed YET AGAIN back in January.
She still hasnt paid me what I am owed.
She used my care, kindness and concern for her own gain and manipulation.
Yet, i STILL MISS HER.

knowing the cycle would repeat, I still miss her.
Knwowing we would fight and scream. I still miss her.
Logically I know its a bad situation. Emotionally I dont care.

Other days I am resolute, and I refused to be treated this way, and am glad things are done.
Im so tired of the mental back and forth, on her end, and on my own.

I wish I could just be indifferent. wish her well, and not care what she does or if i ever see her again.
but every damn thing reminds me of her, in a good way.
I have to force myself to think of the bad stuff, but the happy memories fly around my head all day, every day.

Im SO AFRAID of her falling in love with someone else (even though I know it wont work out in the long run, or theyll be fighting, and misrable)
It crushed me to think of some othe knob snuggling my dogs.
relaxing in my house.
enjoying OUR  yard.
it makes me F***** sick to think about.
Yet my mind reminds me of these facts EVERY 30 DAMN SECONDS.

I am going to go rip out about 100 pushups and crunches, get my endorphins going.
I took some anxiety meds, and im going to try and just zone out and enjoy winters last gasp.

Not reaching out today is going to be so damn hard.
Please help keep me strong.
Remind me why she doesn't deserve as much as a "hi" from me on her Bday.

Krunch is Krushed today :'(

[OKrunch]

I am going to post one of the most recent messages from my Therapist here. I need to remind myself of these words, and more importantly, I think these words can help a lot of the rest of you folks.

"You will miss her. You guys had a strong connection and unfortunately, BPD partners tend to create those connections with their love bombing and they tug at your heartstrings. It can create a very tumultuous relationship as they suck you in and they do it in a very intense way, so when they decide that you are the terrible one, it hits like a ton of bricks then the push and pull dynamic starts. And this cycle continues until they recognize that they are the common denominator and seek and most importantly, PARTICIPATE, in treatment. (EX's NAME) is not there yet. Even though it feels shi**y and it sucks missing the person that they were when they were mostly regulated, it is more healthy for both you and her to be done. As time goes on and you begin your fresh start, the memories will not have as much of an impact and you'll be able to sit with them more objectively rather than be filled with all the emotions all at once."

[tina7868]

Hi OKrunch!

It sounds like you have a lot thoughts pulling you in different directions. It can be difficult when your head and your heart are in different places. Your journey here in this community, filled with honesty and growth, is an inspiration. It's okay to feel however you feel. Be compassionate with yourself, and remember that feelings pass, and they tend pass more quickly when you accept them instead of fighting them.

Remind me why she doesn't deserve as much as a "hi" from me on her Bday.

Keeping yourself as your priority, what would it bring you to text her? Would it bring you peace, or negative feelings? Sending a message could include many components beyond writing out the words. There can be anxiety involved in waiting for a response, and then feelings regarding the content of the response itself. There is a lot of power in making intentional decisions.

Rooting for you

[OKrunch]

Hi OKrunch!

It sounds like you have a lot thoughts pulling you in different directions. It can be difficult when your head and your heart are in different places. Your journey here in this community, filled with honesty and growth, is an inspiration. It's okay to feel however you feel. Be compassionate with yourself, and remember that feelings pass, and they tend pass more quickly when you accept them instead of fighting them.
Keeping yourself as your priority, what would it bring you to text her? Would it bring you peace, or negative feelings? Sending a message could include many components beyond writing out the words. There can be anxiety involved in waiting for a response, and then feelings regarding the content of the response itself. There is a lot of power in making intentional decisions.

Rooting for you

Thank you TIna!
Im honestly relying a bit on selfishness right now.
I know reaching out would just surrender my power, and inform her I am still available.
Silence is loudest, and it's not something I've ever stuck to long.
Things are different this time.

[Couscous]

I would like to encourage you to consider attending an online SMART Recovery meeting or an SLAA twelve step meeting today. I think these could really help in your recovery.

https://www.smartrecovery.org/
https://slaafws.org/onlinemeetings/

[cranmango]

OKrunch—still here, still rooting for you. Agree with what others have said. Hold onto your power. You will get through today, and tonight. Tomorrow will be a new day.

[OKrunch]

I'm doing pretty good, my "gut feeling" intuition has been pretty bonkers all day since about 1pm though. Dunno why. Spidey Sense is tingling.

[Pook075]

I'm doing pretty good, my "gut feeling" intuition has been pretty bonkers all day since about 1pm though. Dunno why. Spidey Sense is tingling.

I'm still lurking as well buddy, just haven't had anything particularly insightful to share lately since you're doing a pretty good job of sticking to NC. 

Today's her birthday, right?  How are you handling it?  I know you don't want to reach out and are fighting it.  And a part of you probably expects that she'll reach out.  How will you handle it if she doesn't?  Maybe thinking it through ahead of time will help you prepare for disappointment either way.

[OKrunch]

I'm still lurking as well buddy, just haven't had anything particularly insightful to share lately since you're doing a pretty good job of sticking to NC. 

Today's her birthday, right?  How are you handling it?  I know you don't want to reach out and are fighting it.  And a part of you probably expects that she'll reach out.  How will you handle it if she doesn't?  Maybe thinking it through ahead of time will help you prepare for disappointment either way.

I think its more along the lines of part of me is hoping that not hearing from me on her birthday will elicit some sort of response from her, whether or not i actually hear from her.
Im not expecting her to reach out, at least not for another month or so.
I think once she knows Ive moved she might get too curious.
I always thoroughly enjoyed getting her birthday gifts, shes a fun and interesting person to shop for.
I bought her a gift well over a month ago, an antique copy of a book. I plan on just reading it myself.
Last time we verbally spoke (3 weeks ago), she called me a leech. So im not terribly inclined to give her a birthday gift.

[Pook075]

I think its more along the lines of part of me is hoping that not hearing from me on her birthday will elicit some sort of response from her, whether or not i actually hear from her.
Im not expecting her to reach out, at least not for another month or so.
I think once she knows Ive moved she might get too curious.
I always thoroughly enjoyed getting her birthday gifts, shes a fun and interesting person to shop for.
I bought her a gift well over a month ago, an antique copy of a book. I plan on just reading it myself.
Last time we verbally spoke (3 weeks ago), she called me a leech. So im not terribly inclined to give her a birthday gift.

I do that too a decent bit, wondering if she doesn't hear from me, will it make her think or feel a certain way? 

I don't think it works like that with BPD though.  For instance, my daughter had two kittens she wanted to keep but couldn't because she was 9 months pregnant.  So my wife volunteered for us to take them, with the thought that our kid would want them after all down the road.  So we did, and my wife left me within a week or two of this incident.

Long story short, every time my wife came over, she's like, "Oh, look at the cute kittens!"  She'd run to them, hold them/hug them, play with them, etc.  Yet once she walked out of the room, I guarantee you that she didn't think about the kittens again until the next time she saw them. 

I have a strong suspicion that our ex's don't think about us except when they have to.  They just compartmentalize the self-induced trauma and forget about us, until something else comes up and they need us.  Or maybe until they see us again.  I do not think they're going thru what we're going thru though because they move on so easily and replace us with a new favorite person.

[OKrunch]

It all depends if reminders pop up i think. When I went over the house in January, she had put away anything that would be considered memorobilia or a reminder of me.
She throws things away, migpies them away in drawers, etc.

When she came back and we got back together in 2021, she was chock full of reminiscent memories and things that made her think of me.
For her, it all really depends on her external stress levels (these cause her to isolate, or be social) and if she is lonely.
So if stress is low, she needs company, if stress is high, she isolates, and if in a R/S and stress is high, she pushes away and villifies.

At least from what ive seen

[OKrunch]

She Just sent me a text.

"Hi. I hope you are doing well. I don't want to fight and I apologize for how Gruff my stress has been. I got my tax return this evening so I sent $1000. On the 30th I can send the rest"

If you look at the message I last sent her on Monday of last week, I told her to only send $700, which would square the balance she had been arguing about. I was also worried she hadn't seen that because I was blocked.
Clearly I was, because she would've only sent $700.

NO COINCIDENCE SHE MESSAGED ME ON HER BIRTHDAY

I have not replied yet.

[cranmango]

Hoo boy. It’s not about the money, not really. Think before you act. You do not have to respond at all.

[OKrunch]

Im taking time to think and chill before I do any responding, if there is even responding to be done.

I do want to be square with money, and not have anyone (least of all her) thinking I stiffed them or didnt pay my dues.

[cranmango]

Agreed, and I did not mean to sound dismissive of your concerns about money. She clearly owes you, and should pay you back what she owes.

But you’re right, the timing here isn’t a coincidence. It’s a pretext to reach out and see if the attachment is still there.

[OKrunch]

Agreed, and I did not mean to sound dismissive of your concerns about money. She clearly owes you, and should pay you back what she owes.

But you’re right, the timing here isn’t a coincidence. It’s a pretext to reach out and see if the attachment is still there.

I didnt take it as dismissive at all, but thank you for clarifying.

She's fishing for info, a Happy Birthday, and probably would eventually ask if im seeing anyone, but that's speculation on my part.

[cranmango]

It’s taken me a long time to realize that my uBPDex mostly reaches out to reassure herself that I’m still here. It’s never really about me. It’s never about whatever she says at the surface. It’s reassurance. And when I do respond, she gets that reassurance from me and disappears again.

I respond a lot less these days. For her sake, I hope that she can learn to self-soothe.

[OKrunch]

I replied - "Thanks, Its ok, i Understand. Don't worry about that other $600, we're square.
Thanks, and Happy Bday"

She just replied

"Thanks"
"Good Luck. Be Well"
_______

I read a number of other peoples recycle experiences and the repeated "goodbye" "Good luck" "Be Well" seems to be a common thing they do.
Anyone else experience that?

[Pook075]

I replied - "Thanks, Its ok, i Understand. Don't worry about that other $600, we're square.
Thanks, and Happy Bday"

She just replied

"Thanks"
"Good Luck. Be Well"
_______

I read a number of other peoples recycle experiences and the repeated "goodbye" "Good luck" "Be Well" seems to be a common thing they do.
Anyone else experience that?

Good for you.  Feels like a good message as well- you expressed happy birthday like you wanted to and she got rid of some guilt on her birthday.  I'm guessing if you messaged that this morning, she never would have sent the money.

At least you got some closure and got paid...that's a win.

[OKrunch]

She messaged again this morning. I havent yet replied.

"I'm doing well, taking it one day at a time and enjoying the small wins when i get them. I hope you are doing well also"

All i said last night was "thanks, You too"

Shes asked me twice in 24 hours How I am doing.
I was under the assumption you very much didnt care Dear.

[Pook075]

She messaged again this morning. I havent yet replied.

"I'm doing well, taking it one day at a time and enjoying the small wins when i get them. I hope you are doing well also"

All i said last night was "thanks, You too"

Shes asked me twice in 24 hours How I am doing.
I was under the assumption you very much didnt care Dear.

Be careful, she didn't ask how you're doing...she said that she hopes you're doing well.  Not the same thing.

[OKrunch]

Well, im done texting, so i guess its moot.
Yes, Pook, she didn't directly ask. She never does. Always hints at things instead,

[Couscous]

Shes asked me twice in 24 hours How I am doing.
I was under the assumption you very much didnt care Dear.

Your assumption is likely accurate. Her reaching out it just part of the game. If she did care about you, or if she had any empathy, she wouldn’t toy with you the way she has been.

But her not caring about you is not a reflection of your worth as a human being. Just because she doesn’t love you doesn’t mean you are unlovable.

[SinisterComplex]

Your assumption is likely accurate. Her reaching out it just part of the game. If she did care about you, or if she had any empathy, she wouldn’t toy with you the way she has been.

But her not caring about you is not a reflection of your worth as a human being. Just because she doesn’t love you doesn’t mean you are unlovable.

I'll be more definitive in saying the assumption is spot on and add in not only is it a part of the game it is ultimately narcissistic as well. Why? The asking how you are doing sounds innocent enough and like there is some caring involved, but that is by design...it is ultimately disguised as a vehicle to elicit a response from you just to validate her and show she still has control.

^^^Sometimes this is tough to hear for people, but unfortunately this is more common than many people want it to be.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

Im sure that was it for now.
I don't imagine ill hear from her again for some time. A month at least id say.

[Couscous]

Im sure that was it for now.
I don't imagine ill hear from her again for some time. A month at least id say.

So what do you think it might be that is preventing you from blocking her?

[OKrunch]

So what do you think it might be that is preventing you from blocking her?

If anything happens with the dogs. The possibility of mail showing up at her house.
I am still technically on the lease.
So, business crap, to answer your question.

[Pook075]

Im sure that was it for now.
I don't imagine ill hear from her again for some time. A month at least id say.

The problem here is that you keep anticipating when she'll reach out, which means she's still in control of your feelings and emotions.  Somehow you have to break that bond to let that go.

Quick story.  I met my half-brother (same dad, different birth moms) for the first time in our 40's.  Both of us were adopted, but couldn't have grown up more different.  He's always had anger management problems, etc. and had a "hood mentality"...if you insult him, he's coming at you and he's probably going to end up in jail.  That's the story of his life- good enough guy at heart, but explosive temper.

After finding him thru a DNA site, I found out he was homeless in Florida.  Brought him up to my state and helped him turn his life around. and he was doing well until my BPD daughter picked a fight with him over something dumb.  Words were said, they both got heated, then she threw a coffee cup at his head.  Then he completely lost it and probably would have killed her if my BPD wife and I weren't home.

We got them separated, I took my brother since he was the bigger of the two, and I'm trying to talk him down.  He'd calm some and then you'd see something click in his head, where he'd repeat what she said/did and want to go after her all over again.  And I finally said, "Look, she's crazy.  Why do you value a crazy person's opinion?  Do you think she knows you better than you know yourself?  Because your anger is validating her words- your actions give her words power and prove them to be correct."

And just like that, all the anger faded from him.  He realized I was right- why defend yourself from someone else's lies that are said only to provoke you?

From that day forward, my brother's life changed.  Someone would insult him, he'd start to get angry, catch himself, and then laugh in their face while he walked away.  He'd say something like, "You're an idiot and a bad person- why would I care what you think of me?"

Since my wife left, since I found out about her BPD, etc., I often find myself going back to that conversation and asking myself why I don't follow some of the best advice I've ever given.  I no longer care what she's thinking, what she's doing, or what she says about me.  Chances are, it's not truthful and I refuse to validate it with a reaction or a response.

That's my advice to you as well- stop worrying about what your ex may or may not say, do, think, etc.  I know it's very hard, but there's a reason why you don't want to return to that relationship.  That should be your priority here, remembering that bad people don't deserve your validation.

[OKrunch]

The problem here is that you keep anticipating when she'll reach out, which means she's still in control of your feelings and emotions.  Somehow you have to break that bond to let that go.


That's my advice to you as well- stop worrying about what your ex may or may not say, do, think, etc.  I know it's very hard, but there's a reason why you don't want to return to that relationship.  That should be your priority here, remembering that bad people don't deserve your validation.

Pook, Yes, I am still anticipating that. I cannot honestly say i fully don't want this relationship. Just not anytime soon. It would need so much work and time.
That said, Im working on breaking that bond.
Im surprised at how much my emotions stayed calm yesterday when she reached out, and again this morning.
That wouldve sent me into an anxious tailspin 2 months ago.
I asked a lot of questions and scrutinized it a lot, but my heart wasnt pounding in my throat all day.
I said what I did because she is such a habitual creature.

Im happy with the fact that I didnt ask about her "Small wins" or really any other tidbits of conversation.
Im open to talk with her, but im not carrying the conversation. If she wants to talk about more than clerical crap, she will.
Otherwise, Im just doing me

[Couscous]

I cannot honestly say i fully don't want this relationship.

So this is probably what is holding you back. Understanding the reason for this is quite likely what you will need to get to the bottom of if you are ever going to be able to exit the theme park — and this may entail needing to get assistance from a therapist or from a 12 step recovery group. Wishing you all the best.

[Pook075]

Pook, Yes, I am still anticipating that. I cannot honestly say i fully don't want this relationship. Just not anytime soon. It would need so much work and time.
That said, Im working on breaking that bond.
Im surprised at how much my emotions stayed calm yesterday when she reached out, and again this morning.
That wouldve sent me into an anxious tailspin 2 months ago.
I asked a lot of questions and scrutinized it a lot, but my heart wasnt pounding in my throat all day.
I said what I did because she is such a habitual creature.

Im happy with the fact that I didnt ask about her "Small wins" or really any other tidbits of conversation.
Im open to talk with her, but im not carrying the conversation. If she wants to talk about more than clerical crap, she will.
Otherwise, Im just doing me

I agree with Couscous- you're not out of the theme park quite yet.  Maybe you're out in the parking lot, but you still haven't pulled away.  I think you're doing great though compared to a month ago, you've made a lot of progress and self-growth. 

And I'm right there in the parking lot with you...knowing it's time to leave, but still glancing back and not driving onto my next destination.

[OKrunch]

I Agree. The birthday and contact were setbacks, and started easing in some old habits, and I have you all to thank for keeping me honest with myself about what this is.
I got excited about contact that was strictly business. It was foolish.

[OKrunch]

I wanted the conversation to continue and it didnt. It sucks, and its why i need to stop having those conversations in the first place.

[Couscous]

This might help give you the impetus to exit for good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8wylByoCMs

[cranmango]

I wanted the conversation to continue and it didnt. It sucks, and its why i need to stop having those conversations in the first place.

Exactly. If each interaction is giving you hope for something more, it is bound to cause more hurt and disappointment.

I’ve been on those ride so many times with my uBPDex. Every random text message gave me hope that we were reconnecting,  but it never went anywhere. And they are still with my replacement. Getting my hopes up every time and then having them dashed was causing me serious hurt. I had to break the cycle. So I stopped responding. It’s only been a couple weeks and there’s a part of me that feels really guilty. But at this point I have to protect my heart from further damage.

[Pook075]

Exactly. If each interaction is giving you hope for something more, it is bound to cause more hurt and disappointment.

I’ve been on those ride so many times with my uBPDex. Every random text message gave me hope that we were reconnecting,  but it never went anywhere. And they are still with my replacement. Getting my hopes up every time and then having them dashed was causing me serious hurt. I had to break the cycle. So I stopped responding. It’s only been a couple weeks and there’s a part of me that feels really guilty. But at this point I have to protect my heart from further damage.

It's funny, isn't it?  You feel guilty for not responding.  But if you do respond and it doesn't go well, you feel like a failure.  No matter what you choose, it seems to backfire on our subconscious. It reminds me of that 80's movie War Games where at the end, they realize the only way to win is by not playing the game at all.

What gets me through this most days is remembering that I'm dealing with a sick individual that can't be relied on.  For me, compassion for her is a lot more calming than anger and hate.  While it's fun to hate, it's just not productive so I try to avoid it.

[OKrunch]

Okay, so I got confirmation that I'm getting my apartment in 2 weeks. I've got a lot to focus on and a lot to say in this post, then my goal is to really switch my full focus on my now home, life and moving forward into an awesome summer.

Firstly I want to say thank you to everyone that has joined me here on the detaching post, when I first started posting here I didn't really want to be here. I still wanted her back fully, in some ways I still do,  but thanks to all of you I have a much more rational view of the situation now.

She messaged this morning, "Hey, I know you asked about the  dogs a couple days back and I never got back to you. I haven't quite been sure how to approach things like that with you so I wasn't sure how to answer. I don't have to go to work for another half an hour you can call and chat if you'd like"

I'll admit that I hesitated for quite a while, I got up made a cup of coffee, went out for a cigarette. Then I called her.

The conversation started off nice enough, she told me funny stories about the dogs, some of which she had told me before. She doesn't seem to remember the things she tells me a lot of times lately.  I eventually asked how things with her daughter had been going, she went on to tell me more stories she had already told me, and then mentioned how she had been getting her daughter into therapy and was looking at a different School Etc. She seemed so genuinely stressed out over it but seemed like things were improving.

Then she began over there questions about me, asked me if I had found an apartment, where I would be moving, I told her that nothing was set in stone and I didn't know what the deal was with the apartment but I was looking somewhere about a half an hour away. She went on to ask me about my son, and then complained about her daughter's father a bit. She said things like "I never wanted you guys to be homeless" "I would've prefered if we could have figured something out, but look how long its been that you havent found a place. We would have driven eachother nuts, its good your boss gave you a place to live"
I replied "A camper in a parking lot without my normal custody of my son is hardly a place to live, but I am making the best of it"
 Finally the conversation switched to our level of communication, during all of the previous conversation she was mostly in a good mood got upset a few times when talking about her daughter. It seemed like she had been crying before we got on the phone as well which I thought was odd. However once we began talking about the way that we've been communicating lately, basically not communicating I could tell she got a little guarded. She also mentioned she stopped going to therapy/psyc.  because she couldnt afford it.

Then she asked me the following question " would you still be okay talking like this if you knew I was seeing someone",  to which I promptly replied "No".
 I will admit my own weakness here, because the next thing out of my mouth was "Why, Are you seeing someone?"
 to which she replied that she was,  I said "oh okay,  well I hope you have an awesome day and a great weekend"
She got pissed and cut me off, saying i was only fishing to see if she was single, then asked me if I was seeing anyone, I said I had been on some dates.
She then called my hypocritical, because I had proposed continuing to talk, and I could talk while I was seeing someone but she couldnt talk to me when she was seeing someone. Said I had double standards and called me a liar.

Long story short - She flipped out when I said I had gone on dates.
Rules for me but not for thee.

Admittedly I did not respond very well to my character being attacked and being called a hypocrite and a liar, I told her that if anything she was the hypocrite because what she was getting angry about was exactly what she did in January knowingly for weeks on end. I also called the guy she was dating "Another cardboard cutout replacement, don't call me when you get bored and ruin this one too". Not my proudest moment.

She probably said goodbye and that she would never speak to me again about a hundred times each and then told me to be well about 50 times.

When I told her that she was being hypocritical she simply said I understand your view on it and will not continue to defend my opposing view.

I said that's fine and that I hope that she was happy and that things went well for her. I said goodbye, and to be kind to the dogs. (Im going to miss them SO DAMN MUCH)

I blocked all social media I could, that she didnt already have blocked on her end, blocked her phone number and deleted it.
Everything will always be my fault. Her life will ALWAYS be in shambles. She will always have some new assache, and woe be to the man who can't automatically solve every problem (Such a human doesn't exist)
twice in my life now she has robbed both my son and I of a roof over our head, I have had to couch Surf and Scramble for a place to live.  That crap is never going to happen again.

Looking at myself: I Did really good  with no contact from September through most of November. The exception being when she contacted me about the pregnancy thing. It was not until late December and into January that we started spending time and hanging out, and I've really struggled since then. I had been thinking of it as her just being unsure of things and getting cold feet, but that was straight up a recycle. It was very quick recycle. She got bored with the guy she was seeing after she left me stopped seeing him and found somebody else right when her and I were hanging out. So I was just a Band-Aid for her loneliness in between two other people. Ever since January I have been struggling with no contact and struggling with my emotions yet again. I've been trying to think about where my resolve in October came from, and I'm going to find it and tap back into it. This phone call certainly helped because it was so God damn ludicrous. She was crying when she called me because she was upset that she hadn't spoken to me and then I might be mad. She just wants me to stay sitting on my nice little shelf waiting.

The cognitive dissonance is really such a crazy thing, well I think most BPD exes will spend a lot of time dwelling on the reasons that they devalued and discarded and split black, all of the negative things recur and Bubble Up and remind them of why they made the decision that they did. I on the other hand have the opposite problem, the memories that bubble up for me are the happy ones. The ones that make me want to stay, I remember  Dr Jekyll a lot easier and a lot more frequently than I remember Eddie Hyde.  It really is fascinating and frustrating to see the difference in how different brains are wired and how they recollect things differently.

This morning's conversation was the last example of her self-serving behaviors that I think I needed to see.

Everything else in my life is turning around. My job is going well I finally found a place to live, I'm getting my custody back. I just paid off my car, my credit score is improving, I'm dating healthily and long awaited spring has arrived.

I recognize that these Behavior patterns and relationship types are an addiction I have and I am not going to feed it any longer.

Vae Victis

[OKrunch]

It's funny, isn't it?  You feel guilty for not responding.  But if you do respond and it doesn't go well, you feel like a failure. 

Like you failed in your chivalrous duties right? Its quite the dichotemy. I totally relate

What gets me through this most days is remembering that I'm dealing with a sick individual that can't be relied on.  For me, compassion for her is a lot more calming than anger and hate.  While it's fun to hate, it's just not productive so I try to avoid it.

I agree Pook. I have times when i get angry, but I dont hate her. Can't, it would be like hating a child for an emotional outburst. They cant help it, but i don't need crap like that in my life either. I struggled with the "In sickness and in health" clause for quite a while, we were engaged, How could I just give up on her, even though she gave up on me?
Well, that only lasts so long.

It took me so long to see how much she triangulates. It's quite astonishing how blind we can make ourselves.

[Pook075]

This morning's conversation was the last example of her self-serving behaviors that I think I needed to see.

Everything else in my life is turning around. My job is going well I finally found a place to live, I'm getting my custody back. I just paid off my car, my credit score is improving, I'm dating healthily and long awaited spring has arrived.

Hey buddy.  It's good that you got a little closure this morning and I'm not going to comment on that because there's some clear mixed messages in there- the push/pull is clearly still obvious.  I honestly think I'm lucky that I've barely talked to my ex over the past 5 months.

I did want to comment on everything else though- the job, the apartment, the new potential girlfriend, getting custody, etc.  It's your choice on what to focus on in life- the negative past, or a very positive present.  You're doing awesome overall and your ex does not have to define you anymore.  

I'm sure you miss her, just like I miss my wife, and that's normal.  It just doesn't have to define your mood and emotions anymore.

[OKrunch]

Hey buddy.  It's good that you got a little closure this morning and I'm not going to comment on that because there's some clear mixed messages in there- the push/pull is clearly still obvious.

I'd love to hear your two cents on this, man

But thank you, yes. Forward facing all the way

[Pook075]

I'd love to hear your two cents on this, man

But thank you, yes. Forward facing all the way

Well, she baited you with the boyfriend line, then used it to probe on whether or not you were dating.  I imagine that sent her into a tailspin to realize that she wasn't the center of your universe still.  It's just sad, really.  You have feelings for her, she has feelings for you, but the BPD game is still being played.  We can all relate.

[OKrunch]

Well, she baited you with the boyfriend line, then used it to probe on whether or not you were dating.  I imagine that sent her into a tailspin to realize that she wasn't the center of your universe still.  It's just sad, really.  You have feelings for her, she has feelings for you, but the BPD game is still being played.  We can all relate.

You're spot on Pook. the change in her tone of voice tells me she was not expecting me to have gone on dates, and I would still be waiting for her.
Yes, Queue up some Forigner on the Jukebox, because I for one am done with the Head Games.
its taken me a long time to get to the point of blocking her, but I needed to do it.

[Rev]

You're spot on Pook. the change in her tone of voice tells me she was not expecting me to have gone on dates, and I would still be waiting for her.
Yes, Queue up some Forigner on the Jukebox, because I for one am done with the Head Games.
its taken me a long time to get to the point of blocking her, but I needed to do it.

Well done Crunch... You're growing in leaps and bounds.

Rev

[OKrunch]

I just got another message, via email this time saying goodbye.

Sent ✌️ in reply, which feels snarky now. But I was pissed.

[Red5]

OKrunch wrote//

Everything will always be my fault. Her life will ALWAYS be in shambles. She will always have some new assache, and woe be to the man who can't automatically solve every problem (Such a human doesn't exist)

 BINGO

Red5

[OKrunch]

She still sent more messages,

"My phone was on work silent mode from 9-5, I just wanted you to know I wasnt ignoring you"

... she was emailing me at 415pm?

I can make no sense of this.

Was being told I'm seeing someone this much of a surprise? I'm so confused.

[Pook075]

Was being told I'm seeing someone this much of a surprise? I'm so confused.

I don't think you're confused at all; you just broke the cycle and she doesn't know how to deal with it.  My guess would be the love bombing will soon follow and it's your decision on how to handle that.

[OKrunch]

I have my doubts, but we shall see!

[Couscous]

she has feelings for you

Perhaps I may have missed something, but I have seen zero evidence for this statement.

[OKrunch]

Perhaps I may have missed something, but I have seen zero evidence for this statement.

I don't know. Is it "feelings"?
I'm not sure, but something causes her to never completely let go.
The several times she could've NOT reached out but chose to.
Whether or not she has FEELINGS I cannot say, but she has some reason to stay in touch, if only to argue or attempt for validation.

That last message was very confusing. It made no sense

[Rev]

I don't know. Is it "feelings"?
I'm not sure, but something causes her to never completely let go.
The several times she could've NOT reached out but chose to.
Whether or not she has FEELINGS I cannot say, but she has some reason to stay in touch, if only to argue or attempt for validation.

That last message was very confusing. It made no sense

There's a common answer to this.  pwBPD NEED a reaction from certain people like you and I need to breathe, drink water and eat. 

pwBPD have trouble generating or being in touch with their own emotions. This is why in pop psychology people in your position are referred to as "supply".

Choose not to be that person for her.

Hope this helps.

Rev

[OKrunch]

There's a common answer to this.  pwBPD NEED a reaction from certain people like you and I need to breathe, drink water and eat. 

pwBPD have trouble generating or being in touch with their own emotions. This is why in pop psychology people in your position are referred to as "supply".

Choose not to be that person for her.

Hope this helps.

Rev

I ended up asking what she meant. Why she said that. Why she would care if I thought she was ignoring me.

"It's just how I am, there's nothing to read into here, have a good weekend "

If anything, I'm now more confused.

[Rev]

I ended up asking what she meant. Why she said that. Why she would care if I thought she was ignoring me.

"It's just how I am, there's nothing to read into here, have a good weekend "

If anything, I'm now more confused.

Here's an existential question: What are the typical answers that emotionally immature children offer when they are trying to avoid something?

Your ex's response ticks on of those boxes. On the detaching board each of us has had to come to grips with reframing that the adult relationship we thought we had was really a relationship with a child in an adult body.

For some of us this can be difficult to process.  It was for me at least.

What do you think about this?

Rev

[OKrunch]

Here's an existential question: What are the typical answers that emotionally immature children offer when they are trying to avoid something?

Can you give an example?

Your ex's response ticks on of those boxes.

Which?

 On the detaching board each of us has had to come to grips with reframing that the adult relationship we thought we had was really a relationship with a child in an adult body.

For some of us this can be difficult to process.  It was for me at least.

What do you think about this?

It makes sense, but it's hard to comprehend. She's very intelligent and talented. It's hard to imagine her psyche as so immature, when she is generally very well read, and is very smart.

Rev

[Rev]

It makes sense, but it's hard to comprehend. She's very intelligent and talented. It's hard to imagine her psyche as so immature, when she is generally very well read, and is very smart.


Also typical.

In the absence of Emotional Intelligence pwBPD will often replace or overcompensate with intellectual intelligence.

And yes ... very hard to get your head around because so many of your memories are emotional.

Part of your journey now will be to get your head around re-understanding what your relationship really was.

Hang in there.

Rev

[OKrunch]

Part of your journey now will be to get your head around re-understanding what your relationship really was.

Hang in there.

Rev

You speak in riddles like Yoda LOL, what do you mean?

[Rev]

Sorry about that...

Let me bottom line it for you - I've been with you since the beginning - and the one pattern that is persistent in your story is that you continue to try to make "sense" of what your ex said or did, try to plan your "next move" around that, and try to see what to think about the result.  There is no "sense" to anything she does. She has a disorder. She is dis-ordered.  She is not predictable nor logical. She is purely in the instinct of the moment, and even that is a moving target.

This pattern is not going to serve you well.  As a matter of fact, it is the one thing that will sink any efforts you make to try and move on.  This is what is known as a trauma bond.  And you need to break it.

 There is an addictive quality to trying to make sense of what your ex was all about - it feeds an emotional need that you have (that we all have) because the discard hurts. It hurts all of us.

Your relationship served her need to compensate for her total lack of ability to know who she is emotionally. This is why you are left feeling all over the place. These relationships will pick a person apart. The addictive quality to these relationships goes double for her. She is addicted to the need to feed off of others emotions - in this case yours. I know that may hurt to hear. And I can't make it out any clearer than that.

Please - STOP trying to figure your ex out. She is not who you thought she was. She is not who she appears to be to then next person. Why?  Because emotionally she has no idea who she is. You will only short circuit your efforts to heal.

I do not say this because it is my story. I say this because it is all our stories. Each of us has learned this in our own way. Each of us shares it in a different way.

Again - please stop trying to figure you ex out. She has the emotional intelligence of a child.

I am sorry if that sounds blunt. I don't mean to sound like I am lecturing you. It's not my style. I am totally in your corner on this.

From here on in - PLEASE think of your own needs first, second, third, fourth, fifth.  PLEASE think of her needs only as they pertain to your needs. PLEASE think of everything as a simple transaction. As few words as possible, with as little emotion as possible as quickly and simply as possible.

There is no other way that I can think of to move past this.

You will not heal otherwise.

Hope this helps.

Rev

[SinisterComplex]

Sorry about that...

Let me bottom line it for you - I've been with you since the beginning - and the one pattern that is persistent in your story is that you continue to try to make "sense" of what your ex said or did, try to plan your "next move" around that, and try to see what to think about the result.  There is no "sense" to anything she does. She has a disorder. She is dis-ordered.  She is not predictable nor logical. She is purely in the instinct of the moment, and even that is a moving target.

This pattern is not going to serve you well.  As a matter of fact, it is the one thing that will sink any efforts you make to try and move on.  This is what is known as a trauma bond.  And you need to break it.

 There is an addictive quality to trying to make sense of what your ex was all about - it feeds an emotional need that you have (that we all have) because the discard hurts. It hurts all of us.

Your relationship served her need to compensate for her total lack of ability to know who she is emotionally. This is why you are left feeling all over the place. These relationships will pick a person apart. The addictive quality to these relationships goes double for her. She is addicted to the need to feed off of others emotions - in this case yours. I know that may hurt to hear. And I can't make it out any clearer than that.

Please - STOP trying to figure your ex out. She is not who you thought she was. She is not who she appears to be to then next person. Why?  Because emotionally she has no idea who she is. You will only short circuit your efforts to heal.

I do not say this because it is my story. I say this because it is all our stories. Each of us has learned this in our own way. Each of us shares it in a different way.

Again - please stop trying to figure you ex out. She has the emotional intelligence of a child.

I am sorry if that sounds blunt. I don't mean to sound like I am lecturing you. It's not my style. I am totally in your corner on this.

From here on in - PLEASE think of your own needs first, second, third, fourth, fifth.  PLEASE think of her needs only as they pertain to your needs. PLEASE think of everything as a simple transaction. As few words as possible, with as little emotion as possible as quickly and simply as possible.

There is no other way that I can think of to move past this.

You will not heal otherwise.

Hope this helps.

Rev

I do believe my brother from another mother covered this, but I want to re-iterate that you must stop trying to figure your ex out. For one it will serve you no purpose. For two...you will just drive yourself nuts. For three...you are still approaching the situation with logic and not understanding that you cannot make sense of something that is illogical. Trying to make sense of a disordered mind is a pointless endeavor. Why? It's in the description...disordered. A disordered mind is literally wired differently (physically) and it is impossible for neurotypical people to understand or comprehend how a disordered mind works.

Rev is usually the more softer hand on board while I am typically the blunt force trauma. But understand we care and we do have your back, but we will always tell you the truth and sometimes the truth hurts.

Stop being an emotional dumping ground and stand up for yourself and DO YOU moving forward.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Pook075]

I do not say this because it is my story. I say this because it is all our stories. Each of us has learned this in our own way. Each of us shares it in a different way.

Again - please stop trying to figure you ex out. She has the emotional intelligence of a child.

Question, for me and for Crunch since we're both on similar 'recovery' timelines (I don't know what else to call it).

Of the thousands of members who have passed through this site over the years, are there any stories where the ex split, moved on, and eventually reconciled long-term?  Or is this really "all" of our stories?

I ask because I'm about 98% moved on and over this.  Yet there's this small, nagging voice in the back of my head saying, "If you wait this out long enough, maybe things can still turn around."  I know it's foolish and I know it's part of the grieving process to fully let go.  That last shred of hope feels like it's attached with super glue though. 

For what it's worth, I don't even like my ex anymore and I 100% agree that she's a spoiled child that can't process anything in a logical adult manner.

[Rev]

Question, for me and for Crunch since we're both on similar 'recovery' timelines (I don't know what else to call it).

Of the thousands of members who have passed through this site over the years, are there any stories where the ex split, moved on, and eventually reconciled long-term?  Or is this really "all" of our stories?

I ask because I'm about 98% moved on and over this.  Yet there's this small, nagging voice in the back of my head saying, "If you wait this out long enough, maybe things can still turn around."  I know it's foolish and I know it's part of the grieving process to fully let go.  That last shred of hope feels like it's attached with super glue though. 

For what it's worth, I don't even like my ex anymore and I 100% agree that she's a spoiled child that can't process anything in a logical adult manner.

Super question.

The short answer is no ... once you are here - unless there is a compelling reason to go back (there's a member here who's posted for example that they may end up homeless with their child) DON'T.  Yes the individual details will change - the disorder will not.

THE EXCEPTIONS that I see are on the bettering board. There the non BPD partner has made willing sacrifices that are personal choices based on their unuque circumstances. 

The jury is still out on DBT as a therapy. The "success" of DBT is a longer term thing.

Please hear this. The only closure you will get is the closure you give yourself.  You will need to decide what happened, why it happened, accept that it happened and then move on.

My mentor said to me back in 2019 when my marriage exploded in spectacular fashion (after I went back three times - too embarrassed to tell people she was physically and mentally abusive):

1) Rev - stop trying to have a conversation with someone who just doesn't exist.

2) Look at the brightside - You now have the best B.S. meter money can buy.

Hope that's clear.

Rev

[Couscous]

You speak in riddles like Yoda LOL, what do you mean?

If you'd like more directness here it is: Your relationship was a lie.

It's a harsh pronouncement I know, but this is what we all have to comes to terms with one way or another.

[Rev]

If you'd like more directness here it is: Your relationship was a lie.

I'll add the many, (most - all ?) times there are the times in the healing journey when you can pinpoint actual lies which if we deny happened, we prolong our suffering.

I know my entire relationship to my ex was founded on two major lies and one minor one. And short of someone having come to me in and saying "Rev she lied about this" I never would have known.

In the aftermath of the break-up- then people spoke to me. But before they didn't. Of course they didn't- they were acquaintances who wanted to respect proper boundaries.

Rev

[OKrunch]

I ask because I'm about 98% moved on and over this.  Yet there's this small, nagging voice in the back of my head saying, "If you wait this out long enough, maybe things can still turn around."  I know it's foolish and I know it's part of the grieving process to fully let go.  That last shred of hope feels like it's attached with super glue though. 

For what it's worth, I don't even like my ex anymore and I 100% agree that she's a spoiled child that can't process anything in a logical adult manner.

Pook , you nailed pretty much how I'm feeling here. Except I'll give myself maybe an 80% detachment score at best.

Idk if this was a stupid idea or not, but I sent one last message today. And I did not pull any punches. I told her all the reasons why I felt hurt and betrayed and lied to. I don't know if it's healthy for the BPD dynamic, but I needed to get it off my chest for my own catharsis reasons. I've been tiptoeing around her s***, trying to play baby gloves with her and I've never actually told her how she's made me feel. Not that she cares, but I don't really care what she thinks anymore and I needed to say it for my own reasons. I told her I didn't appreciate being lied to, I told her I'm no longer an option and no longer her triangulation point. I told her that when her replacement gets stale and boring in 6 months not to come crawling to me because I won't be there when she does.
I was pissed about the way that she behaved yesterday, dangling some guy in front of my face like we were in high school.

And I do accept that she is a child trapped in an adult's body. The protest behavior is, the attention seeking. These are things that children do.
I have poisoned my healing by stopping to think about why she does things and what she's going to do next. And you're right, those things don't matter. I can't understand them, predict them and I should not be paying attention to them. 2 weeks from today I will be moving into my new apartment, the location of which she does not know.

All digital communication methods have been shut down completely. The only way she can disturb my peace is by showing up at my work and I will just tell her to leave.

In my time is an EMT I had to learn when to halt resuscitation efforts, in what circumstances you need to Black card triage patients in a mass casualty incident. EMS is not something I have thought about in a long time, and I need to tap into some of those cold decision making skills. I've been working CPR on this patient for 6 months. No signs of life. Non-viable.
ToD - March 18th.

[Pook075]

The jury is still out on DBT as a therapy. The "success" of DBT is a longer term thing.

Thank you for the answer Rev.  That's what I assumed but needed to hear it.

My BPD kid has made tons of progress with a combo of DBT and other therapy.  I think it's more the counselor than the techniques, in a way, but she's living an incredible balanced, normal life right now and she has the ability to talk out her feelings before spiraling and/or blowing up.  And maybe that's what has given me false hope- if it worked for the kid, why not the mom/wife too?

Again though, thanks!

[Rev]

Thank you for the answer Rev.  That's what I assumed but needed to hear it.

My BPD kid has made tons of progress with a combo of DBT and other therapy.  I think it's more the counselor than the techniques, in a way, but she's living an incredible balanced, normal life right now and she has the ability to talk out her feelings before spiraling and/or blowing up.  And maybe that's what has given me false hope- if it worked for the kid, why not the mom/wife too?

Again though, thanks!

I am assuming your child is younger?  And yes - about 85 % of the success of any therapy is really based on two things -

1) The quality of the relationship between client and therapist.

2) The quality of the relationship between therapist and client.

if you needed to add a third ... you might say it depends on whether they can sort things out together or not.

Hang in there.

Rev.

[OKrunch]

I hate that I feel scared of pissing her off/hurting her/pushing her away with the message I sent.

I know I needed to get it off my chest and it felt right, to air my true feelings.

Now, after though, I'm still worrying over it's future effects, when I shouldn't.
Keeping to myself is the goal, but yet I still fear her leaving forever.

Sucks.

[Rev]

I hate that I feel scared of pissing her off/hurting her/pushing her away with the message I sent.

I know I needed to get it off my chest and it felt right, to air my true feelings.

Now, after though, I'm still worrying over it's future effects, when I shouldn't.
Keeping to myself is the goal, but yet I still fear her leaving forever.

Sucks.

Yes it does suck ... vent here as much as you need to.  The longer you move in an independent direction the easier it will become.

In the first month after I broke up I put 3500 miles on my car driving at all hours to try and keep myself from going back a fourth time.

Hang in there

[Pook075]

I am assuming your child is younger?  And yes - about 85 % of the success of any therapy is really based on two things -

1) The quality of the relationship between client and therapist.

2) The quality of the relationship between therapist and client.

if you needed to add a third ... you might say it depends on whether they can sort things out together or not.

Hang in there.

Rev.

Yeah, child is 24, but been in some sort of therapy for 10+ years.  Most of them were more like trusted friends to vent with than actual therapists.

[SinisterComplex]

Pook , you nailed pretty much how I'm feeling here. Except I'll give myself maybe an 80% detachment score at best.

Idk if this was a stupid idea or not, but I sent one last message today. And I did not pull any punches. I told her all the reasons why I felt hurt and betrayed and lied to. I don't know if it's healthy for the BPD dynamic, but I needed to get it off my chest for my own catharsis reasons. I've been tiptoeing around her s***, trying to play baby gloves with her and I've never actually told her how she's made me feel. Not that she cares, but I don't really care what she thinks anymore and I needed to say it for my own reasons. I told her I didn't appreciate being lied to, I told her I'm no longer an option and no longer her triangulation point. I told her that when her replacement gets stale and boring in 6 months not to come crawling to me because I won't be there when she does.
I was pissed about the way that she behaved yesterday, dangling some guy in front of my face like we were in high school.

And I do accept that she is a child trapped in an adult's body. The protest behavior is, the attention seeking. These are things that children do.
I have poisoned my healing by stopping to think about why she does things and what she's going to do next. And you're right, those things don't matter. I can't understand them, predict them and I should not be paying attention to them. 2 weeks from today I will be moving into my new apartment, the location of which she does not know.

All digital communication methods have been shut down completely. The only way she can disturb my peace is by showing up at my work and I will just tell her to leave.

In my time is an EMT I had to learn when to halt resuscitation efforts, in what circumstances you need to Black card triage patients in a mass casualty incident. EMS is not something I have thought about in a long time, and I need to tap into some of those cold decision making skills. I've been working CPR on this patient for 6 months. No signs of life. Non-viable.
ToD - March 18th.

Runchie, yes please tap into those EMT skills. My friend you have to give yourself a dose of reality and nut up and say enough of this BS  . It's S or get off the pot time. Now you do not have to be as ice cold as I can be no...play to your personality. But the bottom line is you have to have the mentality that you will not hesitate to pull the plug and tell someone to go kick rocks!

If she tries to pull a stunt on you and whine about you shutting her S down then pull out your cell phone type in cry me a river on youtube from justin timberlake and put it on repeat and play it loud so it sends the message. I gather that is probably not your style, but perhaps you will at least glean some humor from my words here and it will provide you some solace and comfort.

Keep your head up. Be kind to you and please take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

I still want her to want me back. If for no other reason than ego reasons. Complete indifference is my goal that is the goal I will be working towards

[Red5]

I still want her to want me back. If for no other reason than ego reasons. Complete indifference is my goal that is the goal I will be working towards

Krunch,

I been following you now (tracking ) for several days,…

You are still in (her) FOG,… you need to read and heed what the others are telling you here,… your bpdex will only continue to “play” with you, the longer you let her.

#supply

…. and any supply will do,… she feeds off the drama - trauma - (&) chaos,… she is literally getting off on the negative, push-pull attention she is getting from you.

Another member on here (formflier) told me back in 2017, something to the effect off;

“never rely on a disordered person to fulfill your own emotional stability”

You may as well swim in an alligator swamp with a chicken leg tied round your neck….

You stay with her, take her back, or else reconcile with her,… your only going to get more of the same, … and since you’ve told her “what’s on your mind”,… now you’ve inflicted a ‘narcissistic wound” upon her, borderlines/narcissist DO NOT deal well,with perceived “shaming”,… and so,… if she gets you in close again, you are going to pay for that last message you sent her.

These bpd/npd women do not respond,… or else have any ability to understand facts, correct history (of the relationship), “ryme or reason”….forget it,… that wounded little girl inside of her is running the show.

DBT,… only teaches the left of center, non malignant bpd the ability to “dialectically” (cognitively) recognize, evaluate, and control their emotional ability to respond to others, effectively DBT teaches the bpd the skills to control their negative (outbursts) behaviors…

But be advised,… at anytime,… the bpd can relapse (collapse),…

It seems to be,… anytime the dysfunctional relationship is returned to,… reconciled,… that all the baggage and wreckage from the past “sorties” is still retained,… and she will immediately return to it the very first time you step off her pedestal…. (unwittingly fall)… and the dysregulations (negative) will be even worse the second, third, forth time you go back with her.

Heal yourself, get centered,… take care of number 1 now, ….   you

The others are correct, these relationships are an addiction… a “trauma bond”.

Mine has been gone for over four years now, we have not divorced…. and I am still trauma bonded to her,… however, I have learned how to communicate with her, when I have to:
*NC   gray rock
*No “over explaining”
*Clear - Simple - Succinct
*Do not give in to her attempts at chaos/control … circular arguments
 
She has stage IV cancer, she depends on our medical insurance for her trail treatments… this is the reason we are still married.

I have known her for sixteen years, married for thirteen years, separated for 4.3 of these years.

She is my second wife,… yup, I did all this before,… still learning I am (Yoda)

Your self esteem has to be ironclad.

You have to have complete financial security.

You have to be completely autonomous, independent; separate from her.
*home-job-finacial*

You have to be able to understand, and operate under the premise that she is disordered, she will not ever “get better”, or else have an “epiphany” one day, and be your “best girl” forever and always,… ain’t happening.

You need to learn and practice the countermeasures (bpdfamily tools) that will enable you to “shoot - move - (&) communicate” in this dysfunctional relationship environment.

Be thankful that you have awakened, and are now learning about what you’ve come into contact with,… a beautiful but disordered woman.

Trust your gut instinct, as it is always right.

If you are a praying man, a relationship with Jesus will help, you stay grounded and true to yourself.

My “T” (No.3) told me,… “a borderline woman will eventually destroy every relationship she has, I see the wreckage of this all the time”…

Destroy is defined as:
*your relationship with her
*your livelihood (career job/bank accounts)
*your legal status (police report/record)
*your family (children)
*your home (bpd divorce)
*and perhaps even your very life (health decline from stress ongoing)

DESTROYED

That’s all I got Krunch,…. Listen to the others, they are “dead on” in their writings here ….

Chose you, … save yourself, from her,… if you must,….love her from afar,… but if you get too close again, it will only be worse the next cycle.

Red5

[OKrunch]

Yesterday you all have Me the blunt tough love I needed to hear.

I also had a very eye opening conversation with a mutual friend who has known her longer than me. A guy, ex co worker who is steadily married.
He said
"I've been in that exact relationship before. I still dream about a girl I wanted to marry more than a decade ago but the girl I wanted and the girl that existed were different. If you want EXS NAME but with the capacity to commit to you and not fight, you don't want EXS NAME.
The EXS NAME you are in love with is not the EXS NAME that exists in the world. The EXS NAME you are in love with is dead. You have to mourn her passing. There is nothing chivalrous about waiting for the dead to rise. 
 When your son falls in love with a woman that treats him like trash half of the time, remember you set the example with EXS NAME and accept the blame.
I knew from watching her with ... I can't remember DAUGHTERS dad's name... haha. I knew from watching her with him that she has never been in and doesn't understand what it takes to be in a steady, healthy, committed relationship.
She has told me some of the trauma, too. I want the best for her, but she has no one to teach her. She never had safety or comfort as a child and those things are strangers to her now. That's the way it is. She feels like she is not at home among warmth because it is new territory."

That was all very impactful to hear from someone who knows her personally and has for longer than I have. Additionally this person is very well read and intelligent. Someone I respect the opinion of quite a bit. I cried after this conversation. Between everything you all said and this, a wave of true realization hit me

It is never going to be any different.

So that leaves me with a few things to think about.

Firstly, I'm still concerned about my strength of will in the event of a temperature check that could lead to a recycle. She has someone to focus on right now, but has been seeing them for a couple of months so The hourglass was flipped already and the timer will run out.
She WILL reengage at some point, likely before the end of summer.
I really really need to be ready for when that happens.

I am hoping the "narcissistic wound" of being very upfront yesterday will prevent or delay this from happening.
However I am also concerned about the fact that I have historically been very bad about no contact, so I'm concerned if I'm actually adhering to it that's going to trigger the abandonment and have her re-engage sooner, when I'm more susceptible to it.

Lastly is a topic I have avoided bringing up on this forum with the fear of being labeled a wackadoo.
I have something that I struggle to explain, a sensation or a sixth sense so to speak. I'm a very logic science minded person so the existence of this thing was something that baffled and confused me for a long time. I experienced this with my ex-wife as well as my recent ex, but definitely more aggressively and frequently with recent ex.
When I have formed a bond with someone (this has only occured with two people), I can sense their emotions when they're not around. It has to be very strong emotion. With my ex-wife it was mostly during the divorce during times that she had to go to legal things or lawyers offices. She is the world's most non-confrontational person and stuff like that freaks her out. So I would get my Spidey Sense feeling and then two days later a letter from the lawyer. We were very much in no contact entirely during our divorce. But yet I could still tell whenever some new development was happening.
With my recent ex with BPD however, it was very frequent as her moods are all over the place. I still experience these to this day. It's like a spinning tightening feeling in the core of my stomach. It is not muscular. It is not my anxiety, that manifests as increased heart rate and more of heart in my throat sort of feeling. During our first break up, we had not been in touch for many weeks. This was around May of 2021, one evening I had intense feelings that something was wrong, couldn't shake them off and barely got to sleep. Woke up the next day out of dead sleep at like 4:30 in the morning which is very abnormal for me, found out later that day that that was the precise moment that she found out her grandfather had passed away. The night before she had found out he was unexpectedly admitted to the hospital. I felt the stress of the night leading up to it, and I felt the shock of her learning the news so profoundly that it ripped me out of sleep.
I still experience these sensations when she has a very stressful day or when something particularly emotional happens. It happened recently when she had a blowout with her daughter.

I know some of you may dismiss this, but my therapist says that it's totally a thing. I expected her to dismiss it as well being the science minded person that she is, but apparently it's something that is known in the psychology field.
How the hell am I supposed to detach when I have this weird sixth sense, emotional cord connection bull crap going on? I meditate on it to try and sever it, but it has not yet worked.
I know that explanation may not land with all of you, but it's definitely a thing that happens in my life and it makes things far harder.
I wish I understood it more

[Pook075]

I have something that I struggle to explain, a sensation or a sixth sense so to speak. I'm a very logic science minded person so the existence of this thing was something that baffled and confused me for a long time. I experienced this with my ex-wife as well as my recent ex, but definitely more aggressively and frequently with recent ex.

When I have formed a bond with someone (this has only occured with two people), I can sense their emotions when they're not around. It has to be very strong emotion. With my ex-wife it was mostly during the divorce during times that she had to go to legal things or lawyers offices. She is the world's most non-confrontational person and stuff like that freaks her out. So I would get my Spidey Sense feeling and then two days later a letter from the lawyer. We were very much in no contact entirely during our divorce. But yet I could still tell whenever some new development was happening.

With my recent ex with BPD however, it was very frequent as her moods are all over the place. I still experience these to this day. It's like a spinning tightening feeling in the core of my stomach. It is not muscular. It is not my anxiety, that manifests as increased heart rate and more of heart in my throat sort of feeling. During our first break up, we had not been in touch for many weeks. This was around May of 2021, one evening I had intense feelings that something was wrong, couldn't shake them off and barely got to sleep. Woke up the next day out of dead sleep at like 4:30 in the morning which is very abnormal for me, found out later that day that that was the precise moment that she found out her grandfather had passed away. The night before she had found out he was unexpectedly admitted to the hospital. I felt the stress of the night leading up to it, and I felt the shock of her learning the news so profoundly that it ripped me out of sleep.

I still experience these sensations when she has a very stressful day or when something particularly emotional happens. It happened recently when she had a blowout with her daughter.

I know some of you may dismiss this, but my therapist says that it's totally a thing. I expected her to dismiss it as well being the science minded person that she is, but apparently it's something that is known in the psychology field.

My mother and her twin sister both had this psychic connection and it was unbelievable.  I remember one time, my aunt in Jacksonville fell off a pool chair and broke her tailbone.  I was in the car with my mom in Ft. Lauderdale (350 miles away), decades before cell phones, and she went into a full blown panic that her sister was badly hurt.  She even felt pain in her leg (not tailbone, but right area anyway).  Likewise, my aunt knew the minute my mom passed in the hospital several years back.  They always just knew, my aunt was waiting for my phone call.

There were also times when I was in bad situations and my mom would just show up.  One time, I had 4-5 bigger kids coming after me and wanting to fight.  Yet here comes my mom, roaring around the corner in her car, ready to run all of them over if they didn't get out of the way.  She just knew and ran out of the house, into her car, and drove straight to me a half mile away...even tho I wasn't where I was supposed to be.  Although I never understood it, we accepted it just the same.

What is it?  No clue.  That doesn't matter though.  It's there.  It's real.

Question, do you still have it for your 1st ex from way back?  I'm guessing no.  And the reason you don't have it is because you've broken that emotional attachment.  I have no idea how you do that, but I'm guessing because you still care for her deeply that connection is still there.  It's up to you to break that connection- stop thinking about her, stop playing the 'what if' game, stop secretly hoping that it's all going to work out.

As a person of faith, one Bible verse that's really helped me is 1st Corinthians 7:15.  In layman terms, it says that if a wicked person walks away, let them go and it's not your problem anymore.  I feel like that applies to your situation here.

[OKrunch]

Question, do you still have it for your 1st ex from way back?  I'm guessing no.  And the reason you don't have it is because you've broken that emotional attachment.  I have no idea how you do that, but I'm guessing because you still care for her deeply that connection is still there.  It's up to you to break that connection- stop thinking about her, stop playing the 'what if' game, stop secretly hoping that it's all going to work out.

No, I don't. It went away when I connected with Ex. I'm working on severing it now without replacing it with someone else. It's taxing.

As a person of faith, one Bible verse that's really helped me is 1st Corinthians 7:15.  In layman terms, it says that if a wicked person walks away, let them go and it's not your problem anymore.  I feel like that applies to your situation here.

My "faith" if you can call it that is more universal/elemental based. I believe things happen for reasons, and energy is a thing.
My beliefs are scattered and mostly of my own creation, but I know I was meant to meet and know her, and to grow from the experience.
I attribute a lot of the emotional/spiritual anguish of this all as "beyond body growing pains" . It's the ache of my soul growing, and healing.

[Red5]

O'Krunch wrote:
I have something that I struggle to explain, a sensation or a sixth sense so to speak. I'm a very logic science minded person so the existence of this thing was something that baffled and confused me for a long time.

I experienced this with my ex-wife as well as my recent ex, but definitely more aggressively and frequently with recent ex.

When I have formed a bond with someone (this has only occured with two people), I can sense their emotions when they're not around. It has to be very strong emotion.

Read up on what it means to be 'empathic', ... or an empath.

Also, ... go read about the 'Heyoka Empath'.

Not all people are true empaths, ... certainly not someone in the bpd (malignant) spectrum (narcissistic traits), ... any of the severe DSMV cluster 'B's" are also certainly not.

An empath soaks up and actually feels others feelings, & emotions, ... this is a deep rabbit hole, go and study about it, very very interesting.

*Soul Tie
*Trauma Bond

I had a cousin who passed away from lung cancer back in 2018, ... at the moment of her passing, a little after 2:00 AM westcoast time, I was jerked awake at the exact same time/moment, eastcoast time (5:00 AM), ... (a disturbance in the force?) ... I was jerked completely awake, ... immediately I had a very bad trepidation that someone close, family ... had passed away, ... the first person who entered my conscienceless, was my Uncle, which was her father, he was at the bedside with another cousin (Male Nurse) when she passed from this earth realm.

The timeline was confirmed at her memorial celebration for life service a few weeks later, ... other family members experienced the exact same thing.

Yup, we live in a spiritual/dimensional 'plain', ... and we are all interconnected to one another.

No doubt about that.

Sometimes, I am awakened from a semi deep sleep, (lucid dream?) by either of my "wives" simply calling my name, ... it is as clear as a radar beep, ... "one ping only please" ... it is quite weird, my first wife and I have been divorced for seventeen years now, ... and I am no longer 'soul tied' to her, ... neither 'trauma bonded to her'... it doesn't happen as much with her anymore, ... but rather my current wife.

Wife No.2, ... I seem to hear more, ... she has this high pitch voice, ... like a little girl (we have spoken about these little girl's voices on here before) ... I am most certainly still 'soul tied & trauma bonded' to my current (estranged/separated) wife ... for an absolute certainty.

# "one ping only please"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr0JaXfKj68

Yup, I will wake up to her one syllable voice, out of nowhere, ... "Red" ... and that's it, and all my senses go from O-F-F to full ON, in a second, wide awake ...

She lives about 20 miles away now, ... I may see her in passing (highway) about once every few months, and we are pretty much NC, other than a text once in a while.

Hmmm, ...

We live in a 3/4D sensory world, ... although some folks do not seem to 'channel this' ...

Yup, ... Red just gave you some homework Krunchy : )

Learn, and then learn some more, ... and when UR done, come back for seconds, and learn even more.

You may be a high functioning empath Kruch, ... and how kool is that!

NOTAMS, ... narcopaths   love empaths, ...
#White Knights (horse and sword included)

Red5

[Couscous]

How the hell am I supposed to detach when I have this weird sixth sense, emotional cord connection bull crap going on? I meditate on it to try and sever it, but it has not yet worked.

Have you ever tried a cord cutting mediation? I like the look of this one I just found on YouTube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NAV9tZdJFpc

I personally have tried this one with some success: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=umi21Iffugs

Edit: Ah, so it seems like you need to do these meditations more than once, and per Michelle Chalfant, after every contact with the person in question: https://gabbybernstein.com/cut-the-cord/

[OKrunch]

I just shot out of sleep, and I woke up so goddamn angry. I normally never wake up this early in the morning. And the rage is palpable,
I fell asleep last night after doing a meditation, which had me feeling very relaxed.

And then I wake up feeling like I can throat punch the entire world?
Wtf?

[OKrunch]

Wave of rage has passed.
Feeling mournful now.

Memories feel like they're of something dead, not ripped away.
More a statue than a photograph.
Scars forming under the scabs I suppose.

Nice sunrise this morning, spring songbirds are returning.

Coffee is good.

[cranmango]

Anger is part of the detachment process. It will hit you in waves.

Savor the sunrise, songbirds, and coffee.

One foot forward.

[Red5]

cranmango wrote:
Savor the sunrise, songbirds, and coffee

Great advice, ...

*Live in the present moment, the 'here & now'.
*..."count your many blessings, name them one by one"...
*Do not let the past, predict your future...

Savor : )

Red5

[OKrunch]

feeling much better now.
Had a good T appointment.

Sun is out, and strong. Snow is melting.

[tina7868]

feeling much better now.
Had a good T appointment.

Sun is out, and strong. Snow is melting.

Glad to hear you're feeling better

The feeling of spring in the air is really something that brings lightness.

[Couscous]

I just shot out of sleep, and I woke up so goddamn angry. I normally never wake up this early in the morning. And the rage is palpable,
I fell asleep last night after doing a meditation, which had me feeling very relaxed.

And then I wake up feeling like I can throat punch the entire world?
Wtf?

I wonder if the concept of Unconditional Life Acceptance may be of some use here.

Ultimately, you may have some control as to how things pan out in life; however, you will be more at peace once you give up the belief that you must have total control of the universe and insist that things should be a certain way. If you are able to change your thoughts about an event, you can change your world. Although this cannot guarantee pain and suffering vanish, it might just be more bearable.

https://albertellis.org/2014/09/unconditional-life-acceptance-shannon-oneill-m/

[OKrunch]

I have said before in other posts that understanding a thing is truly a key to me being able to get past it. Although the behaviors are not understandable or predictable and they never will be,  the common Behavior patterns that we all share in our stories are certainly quite telling.



Well I know I should be focusing more on my own things, work is slow right now and unfortunately gives me a lot of time to think. Probably a lot more than I need.



But you begin to connect the dots, the childhood drama, the way that children use triangulation in comparison to the way that borderlines do. The only difference being permission for a sleepover from mom and dad as a kid, versus attention from a romantic partner or two.  I always wondered why she continued to talking to her monstrous abusive mother throughout life, fear of Abandonment. Plain and simple.

I have been getting a lot of value out of going over the behavior Library here on the website. Every single one of the classic behaviors, you can link to experiences that you've had with your ex.

I have been trying to identify any of these behaviors that I have as well, and  I am sure, like many of us here, I tend to be a caretaking anxious type.

I definitely have a fear of Abandonment, it just doesn't come from my childhood.

I have had three relationships in my life that lasted over 5 years.

One was late high school and into college Years, not a great relationship. Kind of a spoiled brat complex there. Cheated on me for years.

The second was with my ex-wife.  Consistent cheater, very immature.

And then my recent ex, who is the only one who  I honestly do not believe ever actually cheated on me. The emotional cheating and setting up something to Land once I was gone? Yes definitely.

The moral of the story is, I have always been left in a hurtful Way by Every Woman I have ever loved. This complex is only gotten worse throughout the years, so definitely something I'm aware of and working on with my therapist.



The woman I've been hanging out with lately has not texted me back since Friday. I messaged her yesterday, and haven't heard anything. The old me would have probably messaged her about five times by now.

If I don't hear from her, I don't hear from her. And I feel fine about that which is good.

I joked with my sister-in-law yesterday that it doesn't bother me cuz I don't have a trauma bond with this one .



Anyway long story short, understanding the psychology of all of this has definitely been a great help as I knew it would be.



Spidey sense was tingling pretty strong earlier today, I've been in a great mood all day so I don't know what's going on in the other end of the Ethereal rope but I'm trying to ignore it.



Warmest day of the year so far, WIN.

[Couscous]

I think what trips most of us up are their Dark Triad/Tetrad traits. Being preyed upon is quite unsettling for the vast majority of us, and somewhat traumatizing.

[OKrunch]

Welp,
Today is 6 months since she kicked me out. 6 months since i put my son on the school bus with both of us completley unaware he would never see the inside of his home, his dogs, or his stepsister EVER AGAIN.

In those six months, ive had a quick recycle, and there has already been a replacement of the replacement.
Her winter madness persists, and last we spoke she reacted quite immaturely about learning i had been seeing someone else.
Which she had also been doing, but as we all know, "Rules for thee, but not for me".

I had a lengthy discussion with Therapist about this recent exchange, and the possibility of increased fear of abandonment onset (she thought I would always be around, waiting for her attention to return, according to my T). This is in contrast and combination to the narcissistic injury imposed by the things i said (finally standing up for myself, and establishing the boundary that I will not be two timed, lied to, ghosted, strung along and made second fiddle).
The next few months should prove quite liberating and healing.
In a fresh, newly resolved stint of NC.

Cognitive dissonance and remembering all the good times is still a challenge. I still believe in the firm difference between Jekyl and Hyde. They are 2 seperate people to me.
I do still have faith that she can be succsessful in therapy, but she needs to DO IT AND STICK TO IT.
Do i have faith we can ever make this work? Eh, not so much, but I want her to be happy, and HEALTHY for the later half of her life. She and her daughter deserve that, after all shes had to endure through life.

Although my anxiety still spikes, I still get "Gut Feelings" about her almost daily, and I still think about her all the damn time, I do feel like I have my power back. My ability to control my own fate, and not be jolted around like a puppet by Eddie Hyde.
I do still greatly miss Jekyll though, and my heart weeps for their loss. again.
AGAIN.
We shall smash the wheel, lest it crushes us all.

[Pook075]

Welp,
Today is 6 months since she kicked me out. 6 months since i put my son on the school bus with both of us completley unaware he would never see the inside of his home, his dogs, or his stepsister EVER AGAIN.

You're doing really well under the circumstances, so keep your head up and try not to be hard on yourself.  There will be bad days ahead, but lots of good days too.  

I hadn't posted much lately because it's my BPD daughter's birthday today.  My wife's family had her over for dinner a few days ago and that messed me up pretty good; the wife even called me for something random just to remind me of the birthday and that they were all together.  In my defense, I had a root canal that day as well so I was entitled to pout, LOL. Don't think she did it to be mean but it still stung- like you miss the dogs, I miss my mother in law, brothers in law, nieces, etc.  Strangely, I don't miss my BPD wife that much (although there are definitely still moments).

Anyway, taking my daughter out for her birthday tonight and we'll do something fun.  I had my "bad day" and let it go already, so I'm looking forward to tonight.  Maybe we'll do a Dave & Busters or something like that since she's 24.

[cranmango]

You’ve come a long way in six months. And six months from now, you’ll be even farther down along your path.

My timeline is similar to yours. Yesterday was a good day here, I felt peaceful, hopeful, and curious about where life will take me next. I still have hard moments, but I’m noting those peaceful moments when the come and am grateful.

On my hard days, I focus on my daughter. She’s happy and she’s safe. I’ve protected her through all these storms. And will continue to do so.

Keep moving forward. Keep taking care of yourself, and your son.

[Go3737]

I went to STBXW home to help with her computer and banking. The computer was easy, a loose wire.
The banking?
Me: "Well.. you have two ways of paying bills, with credit card and you get points or through your bank account."
Her: "Stop bullying me. Now I remember why I hate you. Get the f- out of my home"
She followed up with a night of a wall of hostile and nasty texts... then called the next morning to apologize. I am sick and tired of getting beaten down then an apology.

... Mediation is this Friday. I can't wait to be done with this nonsense.

[OKrunch]

I went to STBXW home to help with her computer and banking. The computer was easy, a loose wire.
The banking?
Me: "Well.. you have two ways of paying bills, with credit card and you get points or through your bank account."
Her: "Stop bullying me. Now I remember why I hate you. Get the f- out of my home"
She followed up with a night of a wall of hostile and nasty texts... then called the next morning to apologize. I am sick and tired of getting beaten down then an apology.

... Mediation is this Friday. I can't wait to be done with this nonsense.

Wait...you're getting apologies? nobody told me we would get apologies? (Sarcasm)

Joking aside, I have similar memories. The two of us trying to fix the gas dryer, her hovering over me telling me what to do even though we both had no clue and were following a youtube video. That ended in her increased berating on how to do it until I told her to please go downstairs, which ruined the rest of the weekend, naturally.
And, as it happens, I don't recall an apology.
Just moved past it like always.

[Pook075]

Me: "Well.. you have two ways of paying bills, with credit card and you get points or through your bank account."
Her: "Stop bullying me. Now I remember why I hate you. Get the f- out of my home"

I'm sorry that happened and I'm sure it really stung in the moment, but that's the funniest thing I've seen all day today.  Sometimes you have to just laugh over the absurdity of it all...

My favorite is when my wife told me she had feelings for another guy and wanted to pursue those feelings...but to keep it secret.  I called her the next day and told her that's not a 'secret' you can ask your husband to keep.

Her response- "You're lying, I never said that.  And besides, I told you that in confidence."

Every time that came up over the next few months, she said that exact same line and couldn't process why that wasn't an acceptable answer.  I think it's funny now.

[OKrunch]

Lots of "it's the disorder, not HER" type of thoughts today.
and, I do believe that, but the disorder is what makes her currently un-relationshipable (not that its even an option right now)
But theres still that part of my brain that wants her to run into my arms so i can tell her I will make everything alright, but thats fairy tale stuff.

I found myself thinking of a timeframe after which i could check in, because I'm legit concerned for her and her daughter.
Then I realized how counter productive that is.

Even if BPD were not even a factor here, the simple truth is this,
She left me, in a painful and hurtful way.
If anything were to happen, my self respect would demand she be the one to come to me and make ammends.
thats that's not considering BPD as a factor, which it most certainly, quite obviously effing IS.

"In my own simple way
I think she wants me only
She said, "Come over right away"
But she's just not that way
Her little soul is stolen
See her put on her brand new face

Go on and pull the shades
Razor blades
You're so tragic
Go on, I hate you so
But love you more
I'm so elastic
Of all the things you say
The games you play
Dirty magic stuff

I should know better than to think I'd reach inside her
It's all a cloudy kind of daze
She's not so sweet today
She mocks me, I'm no fighter
It all just seems like such a waste"
"Dirty Magic" - By: The Offspring

[Couscous]

Today is 6 months since she kicked me out. 6 months since i put my son on the school bus with both of us completley unaware he would never see the inside of his home, his dogs, or his stepsister EVER AGAIN.

This is all really quite shocking. It was actually a violation of the rights of both you and your son. It demonstrates a profound absence of empathy and a high level of callousness on her part, behavior which is inconsistent with BPD. I’m really sorry that you and your son experienced this.

Has your T ever considered the possibility that she has NPD instead of or in addition to BPD? NPD and BPD frequently occur together.

[OKrunch]

This is all really quite shocking. It was actually a violation of the rights of both you and your son. It demonstrates a profound absence of empathy and a high level of callousness on her part, behavior which is inconsistent with BPD. I’m really sorry that you and your son experienced this.

Has your T ever considered the possibility that she has NPD instead of or in addition to BPD? NPD and BPD frequently occur together.

Yes we've discussed it. My therapist is a specialist in both, and my ex doesn't exhibit NPD symptoms. I agree this is example grossly lacks empathy, but it's part of her splitting behavior. We discussed this at length, my ex's sister on the other hand, wildly NPD.
They both experienced the same abuse, but sister was a golden child, ex a scapegoat and also had to act as mother to the younger brother. Her sister is very typical of the vindictive, all attention must be one me, arrogant NPD example.

My ex has also been professionally diagnosed BPD by 2x Drs. One of whom's opinion I very much trust.

[OKrunch]

As is to be expected I can't get my mind off of the last conversation I had with her.

I never have called her out on all of her crap in one conversation like that before. I also fully expect that she thought that I was going to be waiting around for her ringing my hands hoping for another chance. Telling her I was seeing someone else was definitely something she was not expecting.

I seem to be ruminating over the fact that I can't figure out which is going to cause what reaction. I know I shouldn't care about the reactions but I need to know about recycle attempts while I'm still weak to them.

What will be stronger? The fear of abandonment knowing that I'm seeing someone else which is not something she was expecting me to do because I've told her a million times in the past that I would wait forever for her and that she's the only person that I want. Or will the anger and shame inflicted by the tirade of things she's done wrong to me make her never speak to me again? The longest she's ever gone without speaking to me is 6 weeks. She was very smug in her tone of voice when she was asking me if I would be okay communicating with her if she was seeing anyone. It was a blatant triangulation attempt. I wish I had seen it for what it was in the immediate moment.

Being completely open and honest with you all, mornings are the hardest for me, and I woke up trying to justify a reason to reach out. I have since pulled my head out of my butt and know that that's not a good idea. This addictive desire for continued contact really baffles me. Obviously I miss her obviously I still have a lot of feelings for her, but it is become so clear to me how many things she did that were just horribly wrong to me. Everyday I'm amazed by the power of cognitive dissonance.

Lastly I look forward to the day that all of the positive memories do not flip through my head like a slideshow on a constant basis. Our road trips, family vacations, the dogs, our house which I love, so many things. Not to mention 8 million incredible moments together. I look forward to the day that I have to actively drum these memories up if I want to, and they don't show up on their own

[Rev]

Hey Crunch,

Those pesky ruminations --- not fun by times.

One thing that eventually helped me accept them was to understand that the only closure that I would ever get from the relationship to my ex was the closure that I was going to give myself.

It helped me accept the ruminations as a "necessary evil" if you will.

Hopefully you can make use of that little insight in some way.  I know that Dr. Ramani has some YouTube videos on rumination that I also found helpful.  As a general rule, I'm not a big pop-psychology person but I found her to be pretty good for this topic.
  
Hang in there!

Rev

[OKrunch]

RUmination is definitley part of it.
I spend a lot of time combating the old "What if's".

The other part is the "waiting for the other shoe to drop" feeling.
If I could somehow know, that she will never reach out or talk to me again, I could be sure of my path forward.

Its not knowing how, when and why she will reach out again, and how I will handle it depending on what form it takes is hard to not think on often.

Part of me wants to avoid this, and yet another part of me is still hoping it will happen.

Time, as with all things, will solve this.

I used to feel the same way about my exwife in the wake of my divorce, and now im completley indifferent with her. 
Itll happen eventually.

[OKrunch]

I messed up.
I sent a message.
I asked about her daughters appointment on Tuesday, thats it.

I feel like an ass, but Im legit concerened for her daughter. It just makes me remember how easily she cut my son out of her life though.

Maybe ill get lucky and Im blocke right now, and she wont see that i sent it.

Damn rainy days...

[Rev]

I messed up.
I sent a message.
I asked about her daughters appointment on Tuesday, thats it.

I feel like an ass, but Im legit concerened for her daughter. It just makes me remember how easily she cut my son out of her life though.

Maybe ill get lucky and Im blocke right now, and she wont see that i sent it.

Damn rainy days...

Forgive yourself - relapse is recovery.  We have all done it.

Hang in there.

Rev

[SinisterComplex]

I messed up.
I sent a message.
I asked about her daughters appointment on Tuesday, thats it.

I feel like an ass, but Im legit concerened for her daughter. It just makes me remember how easily she cut my son out of her life though.

Maybe ill get lucky and Im blocke right now, and she wont see that i sent it.

Damn rainy days...

So my friend laugh it off. Why? You're human and you did what most of us have done...predictably made a mistake because emotions...

It's ok. As Rev said...forgive yourself. S happens amigo. You will probably make other mistakes along the way. Don't judge yourself though...it just makes you human. You are not a robot. Just strive to learn and grow. Please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Pook075]

I messed up.
I sent a message.
I asked about her daughters appointment on Tuesday, thats it.

I feel like an ass, but Im legit concerened for her daughter. It just makes me remember how easily she cut my son out of her life though.

Maybe ill get lucky and Im blocke right now, and she wont see that i sent it.

Damn rainy days...

Personally, I don't see it as a mistake.  You did nothing wrong and there's no law that says she's the only one allowed to reach out.  If you want to know how her kid is doing, ask how her kid is doing.

She'll either answer or she won't- which is fine either way.

[OKrunch]

Thanks for all the encouragement guys.

I guess I just worry since i texted asking about D11, that shes going to see it as "Oh hes still interested, finding any reason he can to reach out...he still wants me...ego satisified."

When in reality I just don't want my little lady to suffer at all (not MY little lady, but i still view her that way. I accepted her as my daughter. that isnt something i can give up on. Shes innocent)

[Pook075]

What will be stronger? The fear of abandonment knowing that I'm seeing someone else which is not something she was expecting me to do because I've told her a million times in the past that I would wait forever for her and that she's the only person that I want. Or will the anger and shame inflicted by the tirade of things she's done wrong to me make her never speak to me again? The longest she's ever gone without speaking to me is 6 weeks. She was very smug in her tone of voice when she was asking me if I would be okay communicating with her if she was seeing anyone. It was a blatant triangulation attempt. I wish I had seen it for what it was in the immediate moment.

You're asking questions that can't be answered, and you're also reading deep into her motivations like there's a clear cut answer here.

Think of your ex as a 5 year old.  You ask a question, the 5 year old says the first thing that comes to mind.  Do you get upset if you ask about love and the child responds about wanting to watch Blue's Clues?  No.  Because children are going to say and do whatever they're thinking about in the moment, there's no complex planning beforehand.  Your ex probably was trying to push a button with that comment, but you can't dig deep and try to find reasoning.  The reason is that she has BPD and there is no reasoning.

Or, different approach.  Think of your ex as a jaguar.  You see it in your backyard and it stands very still, just looking at you.  Fear is what you should be feeling, fight or flight, but the big cat isn't doing anything so it's easy to be lulled into thinking it's not a dangerous situation.  It's not even tensed up or anything, so maybe it's someone's pet...a friendly cat.  Do you go try to pet it?  Of course not, because you know its a freakin' alpha predator.  Your ex has shown the same traits at the end of the relationship- stop trying to pet the predator!  Eventually you will get eaten.

[Couscous]

Have you explored with your T that you might be engaging in the repetition compulsion?

I thought this was pretty good at explaining this phenomenon: https://seattlecommunitycare.com/freuds-masterpiece-the-repetition-compulsion/

[OKrunch]

Have you explored with your T that you might be engaging in the repetition compulsion?

I thought this was pretty good at explaining this phenomenon: https://seattlecommunitycare.com/freuds-masterpiece-the-repetition-compulsion/

Yes, I have. My T knows what topics need bringing up, thank you.

[OKrunch]

Unsurprisingly, no response.
I'm glad I'm not brought low by not hearing back, like I used to.
I could speculate why she didn't respond, but we all know there's no point in doing that.
Probably just content with replacement for now.

Just forgetting I did it and moving forward.

[SinisterComplex]

Unsurprisingly, no response.
I'm glad I'm not brought low by not hearing back, like I used to.
I could speculate why she didn't respond, but we all know there's no point in doing that.
Probably just content with replacement for now.

Just forgetting I did it and moving forward.

Best thing you can do. Keep it moving. Life only flows one way...well until magically time travel becomes a reality, etc. LOL. Keep your head up and keep making self-care a priority.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

Best thing you can do. Keep it moving. Life only flows one way...well until magically time travel becomes a reality, etc. LOL. Keep your head up and keep making self-care a priority.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

I'm being a fool, but Ive been thinking,  "if I had handled that conversation where she asked about being able to talk if she was seeing someone I could've won her over, now she hates me "

But I know it was triangulation, and even if what I said was true, it would be unpure.

I hate how much I still want her attention and reply. I had been doing well. I need to. Be. Done. Asking.

I'm just so amazed, I still care so much about her daughter, and if she gives any level of a crap about my kid, let alone me, she does a damn fine job of pretending otherwise.

[Couscous]

Rhonda Freeman’s website has a lot of good info about the neurobiology of toxic relationships, which are essentially, addictive. For this reason, addiction recovery groups can be invaluable, such as SMART Recovery, or since you have mentioned that you meditate, you might also find Recovery Dharma to be of interest: https://recoverydharma.org/

She says:

Symptoms of withdrawal, craving the toxic relationship, or deciding to stay are not a sign of personal weakness on the part of the victim. It is a reflection of normal brain functions, and we do not have the ability to over-ride the process from taking place.

When there is a traumatic bond, the brain will be prone to recall the positive, more than the negative aspects of the abuser’s behavior. This is likely in association with the neuropeptide oxytocin.

This situation can improve. With support, treatment with a skilled mental health professional, and time, the neurochemistry can settle down and return to homeostasis.

The withdrawal stage (craving, seeking, yearning, wanting) is changeable and usually not a permanent state. The brain will need time to recover. It does this best when an environment of calmness is fostered, and the individual focuses on self-care.

However, note that when there is an emotionally charged environment, such as continued engagement with the abuser or seeking acknowledgment and contrition from the disordered partner, or retaliation then the healing road will be longer and more difficult.


https://neuroinstincts.com/spellbinding-bond-narcissists-psychopaths-neurobiology/

[Red5]

'SinCom' wrote:
Life only flows one way...well until magically time travel becomes a reality, etc...  

I love this!

"Time Travel" ...

I have often thought to myself, "if I could go back", ... but retain the knowledge I have up till now, ... and 'relive' my life, hopefully, perhaps correcting the many mistakes, ... would I do it?

Or would I 'avoid' Mrs. Red5 No.1, as well Mrs. Red5 No.2?

Well, I tell ya' ... yes, I would go back (if allowed to do so by the universal creator), ... perhaps, (Karma?) ... * an interesting thinking point/subject *  ... but I would not try to change anyone, ... but I reckon I would try (attempt) to correct my own bad behaviors, actions ... as I would have the life 'almanac' to guide me (?) ... and I absolutely would try (best attempt) to be a better person, ... and to learn and listen to my elders more, iot gain even more knowledge, ... wow ...

Avoid my life partners, girlfriends, wives,? ... certainly not, as my three; now grown adult children were resultant from Mrs. Red5 No.1 (21.3yrs) ... so no avoiding that, ... as for Mrs. Red5 No.2, ... again, no avoid, ... because, I have gained so much know from the relationship between her and I (16+ years now) ...

And what about the couple of women (early dating, high school ( ) that "got away"     , ... no, no avoid there either, ...
#life experiences

So much to ponder, ...

I saw this movie back in 1980, when I was about 15-16 yrs old... to this day, it is one of my fav's ...

Martin Sheen's character, ..."Warren Lasky" kind of nails it, ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilMjgszk19U

Hang in there ya'll ... live in the here and the now, ... as for tomorrow, there is a saying I have lived by for many years now, ... something to the effect of, "in depth planning/plans usually do not survive initial contact with the _____"

Red5

[Red5]

Couscous wrote:
" The withdrawal stage (craving, seeking, yearning, wanting) is changeable and usually not a permanent state. The brain will need time to recover. It does this best when an environment of calmness is fostered, and the individual focuses on self-care "

This is good info;

I have also read a lot about 'injury to the neuropathways, "neuroplasticity", ... "neural pathway psychological injury" ...

Very interesting, as well very explanatory as to what we experienced from our SO's over time, ...
#PTSD
#CPTSD
~
#addictions
#operant conditioning (stockholm syndrome)

"Time Heals"

Red5

[SinisterComplex]

I'm being a fool, but Ive been thinking,  "if I had handled that conversation where she asked about being able to talk if she was seeing someone I could've won her over, now she hates me "

But I know it was triangulation, and even if what I said was true, it would be unpure.

I hate how much I still want her attention and reply. I had been doing well. I need to. Be. Done. Asking.

I'm just so amazed, I still care so much about her daughter, and if she gives any level of a crap about my kid, let alone me, she does a damn fine job of pretending otherwise.

Runchie...that is being a bit harsh on yourself. Not a fool. Emotions man...it is ok. Relax. You are not perfect. You are not a robot. No Arnold I'll be back crap or T-2000 reliquifying terminators. Nope you are just a normal ordinary guy who has a heart, who cares, and got kicked in the nuts and is trying to deal with the aftermath of it. That is all. So home slice how about you truly listen to my words of being kind to you? Cut yourself some slack. You are not on a deadline. No pressure. No judgment. Take the time you need. Process everything and just keep yourself on your own timeline. No comparing to others.

Hey for what its worth amigo...I understand how you feel. The woman who actually caused me to come here well guess what? Her daughter was my little angel and she adored me. However, I had to remind myself...not my kid and not my circus to deal with. Unfortunately, that woman was her own starring attraction in her own rodeo as the wild bronco and bull all wrapped into one package. In essence, I had no dog in the fight so I pulled a Snoop Dog and dropped it like it's hot and have gone about my business since. Doesn't mean I don't care about the daughter, but it has to be at a distance.

As for how your ex may be acting...be under no false pretenses...she probably does care, but because of the nature of the disorder she cannot show it. Why? That means having to face everything and admitting she is wrong...ie not possible. The facade has to be in place and an ego death has to be avoided at all costs. She cannot deal with shame and guilt. Look at it like that. Don't let your worth be determined for you like that anymore. You matter with or without her approval. Comprende?

Keep your head up amigo.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

I just feel like I amy have driven her away for good by telling her things like "you don't know how to be alone", "You never cared about me or my son" and other such things. I also fear that telling her id been seeing someone else (who seems to be ghosting me btw) was the thing that might make her never want to talk to me again.
As much as I know i should be, and have been trying hard to focus on my path forward without her,
the thought of never seeing her again is something I still fear.

Our custody schedules are the same, we have the same "weekends off" with our kids, so these weekends are always hard because I know shes probably spending it with Paperboy (the name ive dubber her replacement).

While I have to work, tomorrow, and the person Ive been hanging out with has gone AWOL.
Shaping up to be another isolated lonely weekend, with more rain.

[Pook075]

I just feel like I amy have driven her away for good by telling her things like "you don't know how to be alone", "You never cared about me or my son" and other such things. I also fear that telling her id been seeing someone else (who seems to be ghosting me btw) was the thing that might make her never want to talk to me again.
As much as I know i should be, and have been trying hard to focus on my path forward without her,
the thought of never seeing her again is something I still fear.

Our custody schedules are the same, we have the same "weekends off" with our kids, so these weekends are always hard because I know shes probably spending it with Paperboy (the name ive dubber her replacement).

While I have to work, tomorrow, and the person Ive been hanging out with has gone AWOL.
Shaping up to be another isolated lonely weekend, with more rain.

It's funny, we are on such parallel paths.  I've been in a long distance relationship for a few months now.  It was going well, but I saw some small red flags from time to time that she may suffer from depression or something more.  We finally had our first argument, which I started by calling her out on something, and boy...the wheels completely fell off the bus in mere minutes, LOL.  Pretty obvious she's on that BPD spectrum somewhere.  But the crazy passionate love was there from the start and drew me right in- I ate it up hook, line, and sinker. 

I formally ended it today and I feel terrible for hurting her, but there's just no way I'm jumping into another cycle like that.  I plan on being single for awhile unless I somehow reconcile with my wife down the road.  It was a good lesson though on what not to do while recovering from a serious breakup.

I still feel for ya brother, keep your head up and your heart in the right place.  My focus is going to be on fitness these next few months- gym, biking, and maybe a little hiking mixed in on weekends.  Hoping to drop 35 pounds by summer since that's a goal that will pay off long-term regardless of where my love life leads me.

[OKrunch]

Yea exactly. I have made it known that If EX is to reach out, she can, but she must be the one to do so.
I have made it known I am not angry, and I do not hate her.

I may ask the woman I've been seeing a bit of direct explination for the ghostyness, and if she bails because of that, than that certainly wasn't meant to be.

Im sad today, but im not wallowing. I still have a positive view of the future, no matter what it looks like.

Framing EX in my head as a creature of the Fae has really helped me wrap my head (as best as one is able to anyway) around her behaviors.

As I said in someone else's post, they are elemental, enticing, beautiful, chaotic, fleeting, scared, cruel and passionate all rolled into one chaotic, seemingly fantastical being. To be idle is not their nature, to be caged, or precived to be caged is not their nature.
There has been a lot ive read about their ability to Love or not. They certianly do not love like we do, but they definitley do.
It's just like they are though, fleeting.
I cannot imagine trying to live in a world where everything i tried to grasp turned to sand and fell through my fingers.
I cannot imagine what it must feel like to fear and dislike ones self so strongly. To actually think "I am trash and do not deserve love".
To know, in my heart that, everyone I ever love will leave and hurt me.
How terrifying that must be to live that way.

So I am starting to learn to appreciate her for what she is.
A season, A summer storm, a bright bonfire, The Ever Changing Moon.
Idle, she is not.
Stable, She is not.
She is cyclical, amorphus, bright and hot. Like lightning made flesh.
Forest fires can scour the land, but they also promote new, aggressive growth in their wake.

The seasons change, but reccur. As the Moon waxes, so too shall it wane again.
They are both fleeting, and ever present. Always changing, always moving, but always there.

Sorry for all the cheesy elemental metaphors haha, it's just how I see the world. The Cosmos, The Elements, we are all chemistry and stardust, Energy and light.
As Above, So Below.

[SinisterComplex]

Yea exactly. I have made it known that If EX is to reach out, she can, but she must be the one to do so.
I have made it known I am not angry, and I do not hate her.

I may ask the woman I've been seeing a bit of direct explination for the ghostyness, and if she bails because of that, than that certainly wasn't meant to be.

Im sad today, but im not wallowing. I still have a positive view of the future, no matter what it looks like.

Framing EX in my head as a creature of the Fae has really helped me wrap my head (as best as one is able to anyway) around her behaviors.

As I said in someone else's post, they are elemental, enticing, beautiful, chaotic, fleeting, scared, cruel and passionate all rolled into one chaotic, seemingly fantastical being. To be idle is not their nature, to be caged, or precived to be caged is not their nature.
There has been a lot ive read about their ability to Love or not. They certianly do not love like we do, but they definitley do.
It's just like they are though, fleeting.
I cannot imagine trying to live in a world where everything i tried to grasp turned to sand and fell through my fingers.
I cannot imagine what it must feel like to fear and dislike ones self so strongly. To actually think "I am trash and do not deserve love".
To know, in my heart that, everyone I ever love will leave and hurt me.
How terrifying that must be to live that way.

So I am starting to learn to appreciate her for what she is.
A season, A summer storm, a bright bonfire, The Ever Changing Moon.
Idle, she is not.
Stable, She is not.
She is cyclical, amorphus, bright and hot. Like lightning made flesh.
Forest fires can scour the land, but they also promote new, aggressive growth in their wake.

The seasons change, but reccur. As the Moon waxes, so too shall it wane again.
They are both fleeting, and ever present. Always changing, always moving, but always there.

Sorry for all the cheesy elemental metaphors haha, it's just how I see the world. The Cosmos, The Elements, we are all chemistry and stardust, Energy and light.
As Above, So Below.

Runchie, quit apologizing. We the fam don't mind. Just express yourself genuinely. Do YOU and be YOU. I rather enjoy the eloquent word play.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[BigEasyHeart]

While I have to work, tomorrow, and the person Ive been hanging out with has gone AWOL.
Shaping up to be another isolated lonely weekend, with more rain.

I know it won't be easy, but maybe you are not alone and maybe you can look at this weekend as an experiment; to see if you can find a way to enjoy your own company. Listen to yourself and think about what you would like to do, what you need, and what would make you happy. Then, see if you can do some of those things for and with yourself. Speaking for myself, I know it won't be easy at first and thoughts of your ex may still intrude, but you may also be surprised at how much you can enjoy your own company.

[Couscous]

Would you say that as the weather has begun improving, that part of you is now holding out till the summer in the hope that Dr Jekyll will make an appearance, and that then you will have a chance to try to make things work the next go around?

[OKrunch]

Would you say that as the weather has begun improving, that part of you is now holding out till the summer in the hope that Dr Jekyll will make an appearance, and that then you will have a chance to try to make things work the next go around?

Yes and No. I do hope that as Spring truly unfolds she will become regulated again, as seems to be her pattern.
I would like to be on amicable terms with her, but I know that we cannot be in a relationship for years, if ever.
She has knowladge and self awareness that she's never had, and I hope that in times of regulation she leans into it and can get a handle on her eradic tendancies. She and her daughter deserve some peace, if they can get it.

I love Dr Jekyll, i really, truly do. So long as Hyde is there, I just cannot give her my energy like i had in the past. Im not very sure Hyde can be killed, perhaps sealed away through much work and therapy. I do not hope on this though.
Right now all I hope for is peace for us all. Peace and Contentment.

[Pook075]

Im not very sure Hyde can be killed, perhaps sealed away through much work and therapy. I do not hope on this though.

Just remember that Hyde is a two-headed beast of his own- you and her.  It's her for obvious reasons with the BPD, but it's also you in how you react to her outbursts and unwanted behavior.  She doesn't have to be "cured" for you to have a productive relationship, she just needs to want to make positive changes and commit to it.

My BPD kid hasn't been at an in-patient facility for almost four years now, and she hasn't had a meltdown (that I'm aware of) in at least a year.  She calls and checks on me every morning, just to make sure I'm okay, and if I need something she's here no matter what. 

I mean, this isn't my kid that I raised and watched self-destruct throughout her teenage years and early 20's.  I am so ridiculously proud of her and how she carries herself.  The BPD is still there and she has tough days like anyone, but she gets through it and moves on.  I am living, breathing proof that there is hope because she swore I was the devil almost her entire life.  Now we're like best friends and she's been in a stable relationship for almost two years now.

[OKrunch]

I never got a response from message I sent, she almost always finds some reason to answer. This is very unlike her. I think I finally put the nail in the coffin by telling her I was seeing someone else. I think I inflicted the abandonment wound of a lifetime. I'm probably never going to hear from her again and I'm pretty sad about it

[OKrunch]

oh my God I'm screwing up so bad. I just sent her another message and it was very sappy and sad. I wish I didn't do it, I wish I could just hate her for the things she's done to me. I was doing so much better and I've been backsliding like crazy lately. I don't understand why I can't just let her go. it's been over 6 months, this is the second time with broken up like this. I should know better by now, but I just miss her so goddamn much. we were supposed to be planning to get married not dating other people. this sucks

[Pook075]

oh my God I'm screwing up so bad. I just sent her another message and it was very sappy and sad. I wish I didn't do it, I wish I could just hate her for the things she's done to me. I was doing so much better and I've been backsliding like crazy lately. I don't understand why I can't just let her go. it's been over 6 months, this is the second time with broken up like this. I should know better by now, but I just miss her so goddamn much. we were supposed to be planning to get married not dating other people. this sucks

One day at a time, brother, one day at a time.  You didn't mess up anything, you proved that you're human and you still care about her.  That's fine, it's normal.  Quit beating yourself up.  Tomorrow is a new day.

[OKrunch]

One day at a time, brother, one day at a time.  You didn't mess up anything, you proved that you're human and you still care about her.  That's fine, it's normal.  Quit beating yourself up.  Tomorrow is a new day.

Thanks. Can't tell if this silence is because she hates me, she's punishing me (for daring to date?)
Or is she actually regulated and just thinks I'm toxic? Idk.

[Pook075]

Thanks. Can't tell if this silence is because she hates me, she's punishing me (for daring to date?)
Or is she actually regulated and just thinks I'm toxic? Idk.

Worry about what you can control (which is you, your thoughts, your actions, etc).  Let go of everything else because you can't control it.

In other words, focus on you.  There's no way to know what she's thinking or how she feels, even with your spider sense.  Just let that stuff go and find something productive to focus on instead.

[Couscous]

Modern communication methods make it so difficult to go no contact...

If you don’t have her number memorized you could deleting her phone number, plus unfriend her on all your social media. If you have her number memorized, then you can get a “dumbphone”, (can be found for less than $20) which will make it a whole lot harder for you to give in when the urge to text her strikes.

[OKrunch]

I don't care that much about having reached out. It's the fact that I didn't get anything resembling an answer and something just feels off.

It's ruminating over whether or not it's avoidance narcissistic injury or sheer hatred that can't stop thinking about

[OKrunch]

The literal last thing she said to me "I'm for sure done, let's not drag this out."

Which sounds like yet another "goodbye forever" threat, which she's done a lot before, but this silent treatment is the worst she's done.

[Husband2014]

Congratulations- that must be an amazing feeling.  If i didn’t have 2 kids I would have walked away 4 years ago too but sadly I have to figure this out for the kids. Happy for you

[OKrunch]

Congratulations- that must be an amazing feeling.  If i didn’t have 2 kids I would have walked away 4 years ago too but sadly I have to figure this out for the kids. Happy for you

It's not.

[OKrunch]

Well, she finally responded. It took me resending a venmo request for the rest of the money that she owes me.

She messaged back saying that she had been not responding because I had accused her of playing communication games.
She then said "We have broken up. It may not feel like it, but we do not owe each other any more of these explanations. I'll collect that blanket and other odds and ends that I have found around the house and I will get them to you somehow. But there isn't anything more we need to talk about. "

I told her that ignoring me after deliberately rubbing her new relationship in my face and making me jealous on purpose was immature and manipulative. I told her she should have responded saying that she did not want to talk as she had not clarified that before.

Then the dam broke.
I told her she cut my son away like a tumor. He got on the bus one morning and never came home because she flipped out. He never got to say goodbye to anyone or anything, and I told her that she then never even asked about him for the months following our breakup. I called her heartless, told her that getting engaged triggered her fear of engulfment and she split on me. I said everything I was feeling. I said good luck being happy with anyone for more than 6 months. She then threatened to block me again and I said don't worry about it I will be taking care of that on my end. Then I did.

I have to accept that I will never see my dogs again. I have to accept that I will not be able to watch her daughter grow up like I had planned.

She is purely cold and emotionless, it is very obvious she's quite pleased with her current situation and lack of object constancy is working it's wondrous defensive Magic for her.
Her smug holier than thou attitude is repugnant.

[OKrunch]

"We have broken up. It may not feel like it, but we do not owe each other any more of these explanations"

Still can't wrap my head around this statement.
It may not feel like it? Wtf is that even supposed to mean?

Also, I feel like it's worth mentioning she did sound very calm and indifferent. Obviously times in the past we have fought and things get emotional. Perhaps she had a delightful weekend with the replacement and his feeling particularly fueled right now.
Although they say indifference means they're over you more than anger from them does so there's that as well

[Pook075]

"We have broken up. It may not feel like it, but we do not owe each other any more of these explanations"

Still can't wrap my head around this statement.
It may not feel like it? Wtf is that even supposed to mean?

Also, I feel like it's worth mentioning she did sound very calm and indifferent. Obviously times in the past we have fought and things get emotional. Perhaps she had a delightful weekend with the replacement and his feeling particularly fueled right now.
Although they say indifference means they're over you more than anger from them does so there's that as well

Sorry you had a rough day, but you have to let it go.  She has mental problems yet you're trying to micro-analyze her every word and find deeper meaning.  The "meaning" is that she has mental problems and she's discarding you right now.  It's not fair, it's not right, but you have no control over it.

Focus on what you can control- you.  Get out of the camper and go to breakfast, walk around the mall for a bit, or go hang out at a local park.  Get some exercise in, go catch a movie...do something for you.  Be bold.  Be selfish.  But pick yourself up, dust yourself off, brush your hair and go have a little fun.

[Pook075]

Well, she finally responded. It took me resending a venmo request for the rest of the money that she owes me.

Careful.  I know you did that in a moment of weakness, but you told her that she didn't have to send you the rest of the money.  There's not much you can control here but being a man of your word is one of them.  Unless you just really, really need it, cancel that Venmo request.

[OKrunch]

Careful.  I know you did that in a moment of weakness, but you told her that she didn't have to send you the rest of the money.  There's not much you can control here but being a man of your word is one of them.  Unless you just really, really need it, cancel that Venmo request.

Done.

[OKrunch]

Aaaaand now shes "in a relationship" with some guy. Not even the guy she had been seeing before.

That was the final straw for me. Triangulation is so hurtful, and since ive known her shes done it to me and 4 other men.

Go, be the destructive force of nature you are. I. Am. Done. like, so very very done.

THank you all for all your help, support, tough love and adivce. you are all amazing people.

[Pook075]

Aaaaand now shes "in a relationship" with some guy. Not even the guy she had been seeing before.

That was the final straw for me. Triangulation is so hurtful, and since ive known her shes done it to me and 4 other men.

Go, be the destructive force of nature you are. I. Am. Done. like, so very very done.

THank you all for all your help, support, tough love and adivce. you are all amazing people.

I feel sorry for him, he has no clue what's coming.  Heal up buddy, this isn't your fight anymore.

[OKrunch]

I completely agree.

[jaded7]

I completely agree.

I've read through this whole thread, and my heart and mind totally feel for you OK. Because I've been there, am there, but am slowly slowly pulling myself out.

I want to thank you for sharing your journey here, just the reading of it all has helped me think through my similar thoughts and feelings. That's the beauty of these boards. I know you are probably posting because your mind and heart are going crazy and you'll get somebody here that will help validate that you aren't crazy...which gets you through another day or hour or minute. But the whole drama is helpful to all of us to read through and recognize similarities in our own worlds.

You are an over thinker! Like me! You want, need, to make some sense of her words and behaviors. You want, need, for her and you to have had some meaning. You want, need, for her to have some love/respect/caring for you.

I have filled 3 of the college/marble cover notebooks writing out various situations that occurred, crazy-making behaviors and words, inconsistencies and double-standards and lies, the horribly verbally abusive put-downs and name calling, the belittling and yelling...I do it every morning having coffee at my favorite shop, which is right across the street from my business I had to close down with COVID. A business I worked in every day for 7 years, several days each week at 5:20am, most nights to 7:30 or 8:00pm.

A business, by the way, she would never participate in and told me was 'stupid'. A business she told me "none of my friends have even heard of". One that was poorly run because I .."am a sh*tty businessman" and a "sh*tty marketer".

Yet, I KNOW...really KNOW...that my business had a profound impact on people. I heard it all the time directly in it when it was open, I heard it in emails and texts when I sent out the notice that we had to close, I hear it to this day just walking around town and a customer sees me and yells out 'hello!' and wants to talk.

I KNOW how wonderfully my business impacted people and how well I ran it. I don't doubt that in the least, and I just can't even try to understand why she would say these things to me. She did, but they don't really, really get at who I know I am, or how good I believe the business was.

And ALSO...right there, on the street in front of the coffee shop, 50 feet from the front door to my former business...is the spot she was parked in picking me up after a class one weekend morning to have coffee. I was chatting with clients after a class, chatting with my instructor, listening to music and cleaning the equipment (a very nice atmosphere, very much community and friendship and wellbeing) and I saw her pull up across the street in front of the coffee shop.

Not wanting her to think I didn't know she was there, or to have to text me, I walked out to say hello and I see her and I'll be out in just a couple minutes. (she NEVER would have come in and joined in the fun group with my instructor and clients...NEVER. In the early days of our relationship I asked her to come to class or to hang out at our 2/month little parties we had and she said unequivocally NO).

As I came up to her car, she rolled down her window, and without saying hi or hello, looked at me angrily and said  "What, are you going to stand there all day in the street with a towel in your hand? Hurry up! I don't have much time!" No hello. No hi honey. No hey, I just got here. No thanks for letting me know you see me. No how was your morning. No are you guys just finishing up?

My point is...I still think about that moment every time I go to the coffee shop. I hurts me, I try to figure out what would cause her to say that. What was she angry at? Should I not have walked out to say hello to her? Did I look stupid standing there next to her car? AM I stupid? What would cause a person to say that? Did she really think I was standing in the street all day? Where does that even come from? Is it offensive to walk out to greet your partner?

I do not look at my business sitting empty and ask similar questions or suffer similar pain. It's there, I see it, but I'm proud of the work I did there and I'm proud of the thousands of lives I positively impacted.

Yet, 50 feet away, the piece of concrete where she parked for that one tiny incident haunts me. I think about it every time. I've stood in the street recreating it, finding the exact spot that I stood in. Trying to understand.

I think that these relationships, with these people, put us into doubting ourselves and wondering if we did something horribly wrong, we deserve to be treated poorly and caused them to ditch us. So then we think, am I a bad person? They get into our minds and our attachment system. They unearth childhood wounding and feelings of terror. They bring us into a state of confusion and fear, and we...no longer children...then try to put our logical minds to work to make sense of it. To make meaning of it.

[Pook075]

A business, by the way, she would never participate in and told me was 'stupid'. A business she told me "none of my friends have even heard of". One that was poorly run because I .."am a sh*tty businessman" and a "sh*tty marketer".

You want to know what my wife said when we split up 7.5 months ago?

I honestly can't tell you because I can't remember.  She was angry, she was manic, and she said all kind of hurtful stuff.  And that stuff bothered me for months until it finally dawned on me that she was manic and had no idea what she was saying.  Why should I get upset over a crazy person saying crazy things?  I just let it go.

I don't know you or your business, but as a former business owner myself I can say that you didn't make it 7 years if you were either of those things.  Let it go, especially since its not true.

[OKrunch]

Now that my nerves have calmed, i feel bad about some of the things I said, but it is what it is.

Shes twisted the knife too many times. I told her "losing you to someone else and watching you try to build on our foundation is the thing I fear most".
She took that information and slowly crafted it into the most hurtful thing she could do to me.
Worse, she was perfectly willing to keep me dangling nearby. When she asked if i'd "be ok with this level of communication if she were seeing someone", she expected me to say yes, and just sit like a hungry person at the bakery window while she lived it up with yet another replacement.
Its what she did last time we broke up. Only difference is that it took her a few months to find a suitable replacement this time, hence my very rapid recycle and discard in Jan. She didn't have any New options.

Im definitley expereinceing the wash back of emotions now, but Im going to keep to myself, focus on new apartment plans, and meditate on truly letting go of my Doggos tonight.

To my sweet F. and D., I was meant to be there your whole lives. From puppy to old age. Im so sorry I wont be. I know you will have happy lives with D11. Goodbye my F. and D.D. :,(

[jaded7]

You want to know what my wife said when we split up 7.5 months ago?

I honestly can't tell you because I can't remember.  She was angry, she was manic, and she said all kind of hurtful stuff.  And that stuff bothered me for months until it finally dawned on me that she was manic and had no idea what she was saying.  Why should I get upset over a crazy person saying crazy things?  I just let it go.

I don't know you or your business, but as a former business owner myself I can say that you didn't make it 7 years if you were either of those things.  Let it go, especially since its not true.

thank you Pook. That's exactly what I'm saying- these things they say don't have any power over us if we don't believe them. We can get to 'not believe them' when we realize and fully accept they are coming from a disordered place.

[SinisterComplex]

thank you Pook. That's exactly what I'm saying- these things they say don't have any power over us if we don't believe them. We can get to 'not believe them' when we realize and fully accept they are coming from a disordered place.

Just chiming in to say I like what I see here. Nice to see the community arriving at this conclusion working together. 

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

And yet I'm still jealous.

[Rev]

And yet I'm still jealous.

Hey Crunch...

Here's a question to help you start to detach from that jealously ... which by the way is totally normal. I remember it taking so many weeks for me to stop ruminating.

What can you do to reduce your suffering?

When we grieve - we need to do the work of acknowledging the loss.  We need to do that because it is very difficult, impossible I would say, to heal what can't be named. So we acknowledge the loss.

Then next thing we do is to explore the depth of the pain it causes acknowledge that too (just like above)

Finally - it is to let go - and focus on reducing the suffering that the pain causes.  That's what it means in therapy terms to "take care of yourself first".

To be in pain is just something we all need to deal with - because "something happened". We don't choose to be in pain or not. The brain processes loss as pain.

Whether or not we suffer - that's optional.  And that we can work on.

So again - here's the question:

What can you do to reduce your suffering? 

And coupled with this question is a moment of self awareness.  It is a natural thing for the brain to tell a person that if they are suffering they are failing.  This is part of the cognitive distortions caused by the trauma of a loss as complex as this.  Please keep this in mind - suffering is not a sign of failure, it is a sign of suffering and a sign of where to start healing. Focus on your suffering, build new habits and relationships slowly in order to heal from it - that or reclaim old habits and old relationships (I did both).

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[OKrunch]

Well, she's definitely going out of her way to make it very known that she is in a new relationship. I'm sure there will be several announcements over the next few weeks about how wonderfully happy she is.

[Pook075]

Well, she's definitely going out of her way to make it very known that she is in a new relationship. I'm sure there will be several announcements over the next few weeks about how wonderfully happy she is.

Good for her, just don't you dare take it personal.  She'll be unhappy and dumping him soon enough.

[OKrunch]

I'm absolutely losing it right now. This is like delayed onset about the relationship thing or something I don't know. I'm having a legit goddamn breakdown right now. I had to use a voice to text app on my computer cuz I can't even type properly right now. It's been 6 months why does this still hurt so bad. I can't even get meds because I don't have insurance. There's something seriously God damn wrong with me

[Rev]

I'm absolutely losing it right now. This is like delayed onset about the relationship thing or something I don't know. I'm having a legit goddamn breakdown right now. I had to use a voice to text app on my computer cuz I can't even type properly right now. It's been 6 months why does this still hurt so bad. I can't even get meds because I don't have insurance. There's something seriously God damn wrong with me

Crunch ... hang in there ...  keep reaching out here and if you are having trouble regulating is there someone you can talk to ... and if there is no one in particular maybe find a clergy person of some kind.

 The religion doesn't matter. It's to have human conversation.

Hang in there.

Rev

[OKrunch]

Crunch ... hang in there ...  keep reaching out here and if you are having trouble regulating is there someone you can talk to ... and if there is no one in particular maybe find a clergy person of some kind.

 The religion doesn't matter. It's to have human conversation.

Hang in there.

Rev

trying to get a last min appointment with my therapist.
This is clear and obviously triangulation, and im falling for it hook line and sinker. Just like I did last time.

[cranmango]

Krunch—I’ve been where you are right now. It hurts like hell. Strongly recommend that you put up some hard walls if possible (don’t check social media, don’t reach out, tell any mutual friends or relatives you don’t want to hear updates).

As much as it hurts right now, I promise you it won’t always feel this way.

[OKrunch]

Krunch—I’ve been where you are right now. It hurts like hell. Strongly recommend that you put up some hard walls if possible (don’t check social media, don’t reach out, tell any mutual friends or relatives you don’t want to hear updates).

As much as it hurts right now, I promise you it won’t always feel this way.

That's just it, I've been here before too. With her.

This breakup is following almost the exact same script as last time.

The only difference this time around is that she dated around a bit before landing on a relationship. Our last break up she got into a relationship within about a month.



That's why I'm so angry at myself. I know what she's doing, I know how she does it. I even told myself when I got back together with her if we ever broke up again I would handle it completely differently than I did the first time, and I have not at all.



I don't understand what profit there is for triangulation? If they are with someone else why mess with the head and heart of the person they were with before? There's no value there, only drama. Who the hell wants drama?

[BigEasyHeart]

Hey Krunch,

I've been where you are at and it sucks. If you are feeling really bad try

Crisis Text Line: Text 'DESERVE' TO 741-741

Also,

Lifeline Crisis Chat: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/chat/ (Online live messaging)
You will be chatting with a live counselor

And,

Suicide and Crisis Hotline: 988


The above are NOT just for people considering suicide. I used the chat one up top when I was where you are. It really helped just to have someone listening and responding in real-time.

Please keep reaching out. You will get through this!

[OKrunch]

Things I am obsessing over

"Last rebound was almost immediate, she dated around this time, including our recycle. Is this relationship the real thing?"

"Is she trying to make me jealous, or just live her life?"

"Doesnt she care that other people will think this is way too fast? We got engaged in June, and only Split up in October"

"Why do I still care so much, after all she has done to hurt me and push me away?"

"Will this one follow the same pattern or will they actually stay together?"

"She HAD been missing me in Jan, WTF happened?"

"She's sharing our house, dogs, and foundation of life we were building with someone else. Again"


I know these are self destructive and obsessive thoughts, but they are whats rolling around in my head

[cranmango]

That's just it, I've been here before too. With her.

This breakup is following almost the exact same script as last time.

The only difference this time around is that she dated around a bit before landing on a relationship. Our last break up she got into a relationship within about a month.



That's why I'm so angry at myself. I know what she's doing, I know how she does it. I even told myself when I got back together with her if we ever broke up again I would handle it completely differently than I did the first time, and I have not at all.



I don't understand what profit there is for triangulation? If they are with someone else why mess with the head and heart of the person they were with before? There's no value there, only drama. Who the hell wants drama?

Yes, I’ve been through this cycle multiple times with my ex, too. Every time I tell myself that it will be different.

Some anger is good! Anger is part of the detachment process. Anger will motivate you to take action. But don’t beat yourself up too much. We loved our exes, we want things to work out, and this makes us vulnerable to being sucked back in.

You hold the power to break yourself out of this cycle. She might be stuck on her loop forever. But you don’t have to stay stuck on it with her. The title of your thread is spot on!

Some of these pieces will never make sense. Some of her behaviors are inexplicable. There’s no puzzle to solve right now. The long trajectory of your relationship might look different in time, but there’s no magic answer to be found at this moment.

Try this perspective: you are suffering from an emotional bullet wound. First goal is to stop the bleeding. Healing and physical rehab will come with time. But for now just stop the bleeding. Take care of yourself today—move your body, eat a meal, talk to another human—keep your basic systems operational.

One moment at a time, you will get through this. Because you already have before. Every time you cope and come out the other side, you will be a bit stronger than before. You aren’t back to square one, even if it feels that way right now. You are learning and growing.

[OKrunch]

I was doing really good in Oct/Nov, then the pregnancy thing happened. Put me back to wanting to speak with her, and she had nobody else in Late Dec early Jan so she recycled me real quick, and had been seeing someone she didnt jive with.
After that recycle, when she dropped me again and started seeing the newest guy, ive been a wreck since.
I was doing some good improvement in the past few weeks, then this happens and i feel like ive lost all progress.

I feel the same now as I did 3 weeks after leaving. Yelling to the void when I am alone. crying at work. I havent been like this for months. what the hell.

She sure knows exaxtly what strings to pull and when.
Why make the relationship public? just leave me in ignorance please.
Why tell me verbally on the phone you're seeing someone ?
WHY MAKE ME HURT ON PURPOSE?
Wasnt pushing me and my son out a second time enough?

[tina7868]

I was doing really good in Oct/Nov, then the pregnancy thing happened. Put me back to wanting to speak with her, and she had nobody else in Late Dec early Jan so she recycled me real quick, and had been seeing someone she didnt jive with.
After that recycle, when she dropped me again and started seeing the newest guy, ive been a wreck since.
I was doing some good improvement in the past few weeks, then this happens and i feel like ive lost all progress.

I feel the same now as I did 3 weeks after leaving. Yelling to the void when I am alone. crying at work. I havent been like this for months. what the hell.

She sure knows exaxtly what strings to pull and when.
Why make the relationship public? just leave me in ignorance please.
Why tell me verbally on the phone you're seeing someone ?
WHY MAKE ME HURT ON PURPOSE?
Wasnt pushing me and my son out a second time enough?

I'm sorry you are going through these difficult feelings, OKrunch. While I can't answer the questions you have asked, I can say that you deserve better than the way you have been treated. Be patient and kind with yourself. You don't need to add resistance into the mix as you let the waves of emotions wash over you. They're temporary, and you haven't lost all progress, you're still learning.

[SinisterComplex]

I was doing really good in Oct/Nov, then the pregnancy thing happened. Put me back to wanting to speak with her, and she had nobody else in Late Dec early Jan so she recycled me real quick, and had been seeing someone she didnt jive with.
After that recycle, when she dropped me again and started seeing the newest guy, ive been a wreck since.
I was doing some good improvement in the past few weeks, then this happens and i feel like ive lost all progress.

I feel the same now as I did 3 weeks after leaving. Yelling to the void when I am alone. crying at work. I havent been like this for months. what the hell.

She sure knows exaxtly what strings to pull and when.
Why make the relationship public? just leave me in ignorance please.
Why tell me verbally on the phone you're seeing someone ?
WHY MAKE ME HURT ON PURPOSE?
Wasnt pushing me and my son out a second time enough?

So what you need to do is what you are doing. Grieving sucks. It isn't fun and no one wants to go through it. Unfortunately, there isn't a fast forward feature or button to push. So with that said what I am going to do is tell you just keep on keeping on. This is a process and there will be ups and downs. It is ok. Keep engaging and venting here. Everyone processes things differently. The key thing to do is to try to get in touch with yourself to learn about yourself. What do I mean by that? Are you an extrovert? Are you an introvert? What really matters to you? Are you putting pressure on yourself because you are thinking about how others view things? Are you being true to you? Etc.

Be kind to you and just let it out. Don't bottle anything up. You are on no one's timeline but your own and you are going to get better. Please just take the time to learn and focus on healing and not what you cannot change...the past and what has been done.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

Yet again thank you all for your continued support. Yesterday was obviously a very difficult day. Again I find it strange that it took a few days to really set in.



I had a good meeting with my therapist this morning, I think my biggest fear is that she's all the sudden going to be normal and have normal relationships and be happy and get married and this next guy is going to basically get Dr Jekyll for his whole life and never see Mr Hyde.

My therapist reminded me of the vast unlikelihood of this scenario.
 Although it stings to know that somebody else is getting the Dr Jekyll treatment right now, I know that it is fleeting and it will not last. Whether it's 6 months or 2 years, the devaluation will eventually set in. I do not wish this upon this new guy, but at the same rate it certainly isn't my damn problem.
 I resisted the urge yesterday to reach out to the Replacment guy from last breakup, i wanted to see what his experience was, but again. It doesn't matter.
Now I just have to stop trying to figure out when the next time she tries to reach out will be, the how, where when and why. These things don't matter. Her patterns don't matter. I don't matter to her right now, so I need to match that energy.

I only have a week left until I get to move out of this damn camper.

[once removed]

I think my biggest fear is that she's all the sudden going to be normal and have normal relationships and be happy and get married and this next guy is going to basically get Dr Jekyll for his whole life and never see Mr Hyde.

i had this fear too. i tried to convince myself otherwise, and it didnt really seem to help.

try digging deeper into it. the fact is that generally speaking, we all do "a little better each time", from relationship to relationship. and until we meet "the one", everyone has a 100% failure rate when it comes to relationships.

i would wager you havent feared this, or no longer fear it with any previous ex. you may or may not expend any energy wishing them well, but you probably dont feel threatened by their subsequent relationships. so, think about it. why this particular fear, with her?

[OKrunch]

i had this fear too. i tried to convince myself otherwise, and it didnt really seem to help.

try digging deeper into it. the fact is that generally speaking, we all do "a little better each time", from relationship to relationship. and until we meet "the one", everyone has a 100% failure rate when it comes to relationships.

i would wager you havent feared this, or no longer fear it with any previous ex. you may or may not expend any energy wishing them well, but you probably dont feel threatened by their subsequent relationships. so, think about it. why this particular fear, with her?

I definitley went through similar pain and fears during my divorce. A contenteous legal situation vastly helped in separating in that scenario, no contact was signifigantly easier. That said, my ex-wife cheated on me, left me for the guy she cheated on, and subsequintly left him for a new full relationship. Which lasted about 2 years, she's now onto her 3rd since our divorce.

My recent ex HATED my ex-wife, and seemed to be jealous of her or viewed her as competition. When my Ex-Wife's 2nd relationship dissolved, it was right when Recent EX and I had also split up, EXBPD go very nosy, thinking EXWIFE and I would reconcile for a moment. Which would never ever happen.

Anyway, to answer your question, I used to have this same fear and anxiety with my Ex-Wife, and it eventually went away. I have no emotional reactions when I deal with her now. its very vanilla. I dont care what she does outside of caring for my son, and that works.

Why the fear with EXBPD? Well, firstly, its still far more fresh. Second, No Contact has been WAY harder with her, Including reconcilliations in the past (which breeds more hope?) Lastly, because EXBPD is someone I do feel is a soul mate of sorts.
My feelings for her became far stronger than with My ex wife. Both employed love bombing, but EXBPD actually legit shares so much of my common interests (not mirroring, she already owned so many of the same books, video games, movies, interests etc.)
This is also why i feel like I am a "Primary" partner / recycle target, as opposed to others she leaves and never speaks to again.
So, in sort, I fear this most with her because I see her as more valuable. I invested more time and emotion with her. We share the same interests, views and humor (Much less so than i Ever did with my EX-Wife, who Did do a lot of mirroring, and dropped the things we "Shared" interest in when she left me)

EXBPD is/was "The One" for me. After my divorce, i said many times "Getting married again? HARD sell"
And EXBPD never preassured me to propse, that was entirely my idea. We had discussed it, and she was excited when we did, but she never directly asked me to do it.
She earned that. With loving my son (or so i thought), raising puppies together, building a family together, and even splitting up and coming back together for what I thought would be "The real thing this time, we've fixed things and we can live happily ever after". Another major reason i proposed to her in June. and now, , 9 months after "Saying Yes", I dont live there, and shes already with another guy. AGAIN. *MIND BLOWN*

Im still coming to terms with the dichotemy of the 2 relationships.
My Ex-Wife mirrored and love bombed me, and then became pretty lazy and complacant for the remaining years. She got bored, she always does. The persona of hers I fell in love with was fake.
EXBPD on the other hand, was real, the woman I fell in love with is the real, regulated, normal version of herself. I just had no idea I was falling in love with a werewoman. After 6 months, she changes, becomes her dark self, and she is unrecognizable.
But the real her is STILL IN THERE. Now I know I cannot rescue her, she has to save herself. I know the cycle of Woman to Wolf to Woman again will continue, until SHE STOPS IT, and keeping it at bay once (if) she does, will require a lifetime of therapy and dedication on her part.
But this is why disconnecting is so hard. Because I know the Woman will again replace the Wolf, and that person, is just a wonderful amazing person.
That said, I've continued to learn things she lied to me about, truths she distorted and so on.
So as time goes on, i continue to wonder, who is the real her?
The Woman, or the Wolf?
One cannot exist without the other, and her Wolf is Fenrisúlfr reborn, but Valkyrie she be, and bright be her sword.
So even though it is the greatest foe she will ever face, I still believe she can slay the wolf.
Like Luke Skywalker entering the dead tree on Dagoba,
"That place… is strong with the dark side of the Force. A domain of evil it is. In you must go."
"What's in there?"
"Only what you take with you."
―Yoda and Luke Skywalker

[Pook075]

So as time goes on, i continue to wonder, who is the real her?
The Woman, or the Wolf?

I've answered this question for you in different variations several times now.  The answer is, all of it is real.  That's how she thinks, how her mind works.  When she trusts you, it's great.  When she has doubts about you or herself, it's ugly.  But it's all her.

You're looking at this like, "Is she a Toyota or a Mazda?"  That's the wrong question- she's neither.  She's a custom built car that runs on completely different fuel type with a drivetrain 99.999% of mechanics simply can't understand.

[jaded7]

WHY MAKE ME HURT ON PURPOSE?

THIS. Think about this. What kind of person hurts another ON PURPOSE? Do you? Do other people you are friends with?

I don't. I never have and I never would. I have hurt people before, but it wasn't on purpose and I acknowledged what I'd done and how it hurt the person. I didn't make it to a friend's wedding a couple years ago. I was planning on going, it was about 1.5 hours from here on top of a mountain and a huge snowstorm came...I was worried I wouldn't make it there and/or make it back to my business. So I didn't go...he was upset and I acknowledged it and apologized.

What kind of person hurts someone on PURPOSE? I thought about this a lot, and I can think of hundreds of ways she INTENTIONALLY hurt me by calling me names, putting me down, putting my friends down, my business, yelling at me, leaving me out of things, ghosting me for days or a week, on and on.

These weren't accidental, they were intentional. That's something to ponder.

[Couscous]

THIS. Think about this. What kind of person hurts another ON PURPOSE?

The kind of people with Dark Tetrad traits, specifically those high in sadistic tendencies.

For those interested here is a deep dive with personality researcher Dr Paulhus on this topic: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l2og1DJvQ94

[Turkish]

There's a Dark Tetrad now? It was a triad for years. Waiting for the Dark Pentad...

As Pook075 said, all of it is real and it's all [of] her.

My T referred to my ex as having a dis-integrated personality.

[OKrunch]

There's a Dark Tetrad now? It was a triad for years. Waiting for the Dark Pentad...

As Pook075 said, all of it is real and it's all [of] her.

My T referred to my ex as having a dis-integrated personality.

Dis-Integrated Personality definitley fits. I just looked it up.
That suits my ex in my book.

Its so odd, Part of me KNOWS she will be back, and not to long from now, and at the same time it feels like i pissed her off enough and ill never hear from her again.

[Couscous]

There's a Dark Tetrad now? It was a triad for years.

Yes, the original researchers into the Dark Triad have expanded it recently to include sadism.

But some argue that the Dark Triad is really just psychopathy: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266085417_Theoretical_and_Empirical_Concerns_Regarding_the_Dark_Triad_as_a_Construct

[Rev]

There's a Dark Tetrad now? It was a triad for years. Waiting for the Dark Pentad...

As Pook075 said, all of it is real and it's all [of] her.

My T referred to my ex as having a dis-integrated personality.

I echo this ... both statements

[OKrunch]

While I feel significantly calmer than I did on Wednesday,  I've done a lot of thinking, and I'm almost reluctant to mention this here, but I still want  a relationship with her.

Not this one or anything that resembles it, and I know the likelihood of achieving that is so minimally low. I don't know if it's just the leftover emotions of knowing that she is officially dating somebody else, but if I'm being honest I'm finding myself looking forward to a recycle attempt.

It makes me feel like I'm failing myself to feel that way. But at the same rate it makes me feel like I'm not giving up on her like I always said I would never do. I still believe in therapy I still believe in treatment, I believe that I am the "Primary" partner,  and as with the last break up, this guy doesn't matter. I don't view him as a threat, I know he's not going to be around for very long.

I find myself asking why I'm okay with wanting her back. There's a large part of me that knows exactly what I'm in for if that ever happens again. I know this cycle will repeat. I know that it's not my job or within my power to fix it for her, but I still believe that she will eventually get to a place of balance all by herself,  and when she does I want her to know that I never gave up on her.



I know that's probably backwards thinking, but it's just me being honest in my journaling.

[OKrunch]

It seems like borderlines tend to rush into new relationships because they feel like they need to be ahead of the game. They need to do everything faster than you in the breakup. Move on, find somebody else. Just an observation.

They gotta maintain that image.

[tina7868]

While I feel significantly calmer than I did on Wednesday,  I've done a lot of thinking, and I'm almost reluctant to mention this here, but I still want  a relationship with her.

Not this one or anything that resembles it, and I know the likelihood of achieving that is so minimally low. I don't know if it's just the leftover emotions of knowing that she is officially dating somebody else, but if I'm being honest I'm finding myself looking forward to a recycle attempt.

It makes me feel like I'm failing myself to feel that way. But at the same rate it makes me feel like I'm not giving up on her like I always said I would never do. I still believe in therapy I still believe in treatment, I believe that I am the "Primary" partner,  and as with the last break up, this guy doesn't matter. I don't view him as a threat, I know he's not going to be around for very long.

I find myself asking why I'm okay with wanting her back. There's a large part of me that knows exactly what I'm in for if that ever happens again. I know this cycle will repeat. I know that it's not my job or within my power to fix it for her, but I still believe that she will eventually get to a place of balance all by herself,  and when she does I want her to know that I never gave up on her.

I know that's probably backwards thinking, but it's just me being honest in my journaling.

It's so much more fruitful to be honest with yourself. Although we don't have control over external circumstances, we can create a space of inner peace through acceptance of our present moment experience. And from that space, there is possibility of change and moving forward, and of making decisions based on your truth.

You can view the same experience through different lenses. You can embrace a growth mindset, as in working on developping, evolving and expanding yourself. You mention you wouldn't want a future relationship with her to resemble this one. What version of you would create change in the dynamic?

You can't control what the future holds, but you can go inwards and grow, which will elevate your life regardless of how things pan out with your ex.

[jaded7]

There's a Dark Tetrad now? It was a triad for years. Waiting for the Dark Pentad...

As Pook075 said, all of it is real and it's all [of] her.

My T referred to my ex as having a dis-integrated personality.

My therapist said the the EXACT same thing about my ex. "She's not integrated." And, "she is very, very abusive".

[OKrunch]

You mention you wouldn't want a future relationship with her to resemble this one. What version of you would create change in the dynamic?

No I would want it to be mutual, communicative, and empathetic. It would need paitence, and fair treatment.

I have been working on and making great strides in my temper. Im a yeller, and she and I have had specific talks about how that is a trigger, and it's bad for the kids.
The version of me that would create change in the dynamic?
Better at maintaining my boundaries without causing conflict in doing so.
Continued improvment on my anger.
Being more productive at home, both with my recreational activities and with household tasks.
Improve my budget, diet, excersize, and focus on how im spending time with the kids more.
In short, All things im going to be doing anyway.
Without her around. Her loss.

[Couscous]

She might be especially sensitive to the whole temper and yelling thing, especially if she had an abusive childhood. Maybe it’s even a deal-breaker for her, in spite of how much attraction you have for each other and how compatible you may be in terms of interests, etc.

But I feel for you, and do hope that you will eventually be able to find the love and happiness that you are seeking. I wish you all the best.

[tina7868]

The version of me that would create change in the dynamic?
Better at maintaining my boundaries without causing conflict in doing so.
Continued improvment on my anger.
Being more productive at home, both with my recreational activities and with household tasks.
Improve my budget, diet, excersize, and focus on how im spending time with the kids more.

These are all admirable goals.

Here is a perspective that helped me immensely: people come into your life for a reason. Even a ´difficult´ relationship has meaning to it, because of the lessons that are learned and the motivation that can be gained to change for the better. You can't control what the future holds when it comes to your ex, but you can control your own perspectives and attitudes. 


You've already come such a long way. Hang in there.

[OKrunch]

I've been trying to shave away the outer issues to find the core of what is keeping me connected. I think I've boiled it down to this

Doubt - I'm in doubt as to if I will ever get another actual chance at making this work.
Sometimes I don't want to, and be done done. At my core, I know Im not ready to give up on her, and not knowing if I'll ever get a chance to even find out is scary and painful. She's come back after a rebound before, but I don't know if it'll happen again, and I know the chances of it imploding again if we try. I never saw the last rebound as a threat for some reason, and I told her that then. I feel the same now.

[Pook075]

I've been trying to shave away the outer issues to find the core of what is keeping me connected. I think I've boiled it down to this

Doubt - I'm in doubt as to if I will ever get another actual chance at making this work.
Sometimes I don't want to, and be done done. At my core, I know Im not ready to give up on her, and not knowing if I'll ever get a chance to even find out is scary and painful. She's come back after a rebound before, but I don't know if it'll happen again, and I know the chances of it imploding again if we try. I never saw the last rebound as a threat for some reason, and I told her that then. I feel the same now.

As I've told you before, my wife left about 8 months ago and never looked back.  First time we split up in 20 years.  Like you, I want to try to reconcile for the kids, the family, etc.  I do still love her.

At the same time though, I know that I've done everything possible to make it work.  I was supportive even when she was ugly, or when she said things that she can't remember saying.  I've stood by her this entire time and there's nothing more I can do.  To reconcile, she's going to have to want it...and then we could see if there's anything still there.

My point is that I am powerless to change this situation.  There's nothing I can do and I've accepted that.  She's on vacation right now with her parents, my daughter's family, and the guy's family she left me for.  It hurts, but again...there's not a thing I can do about it.  So I don't worry about it, I focus my mind and energy on other things.

The only way you can get her back at this point is by completely letting her go.  Your relationship is over, it's final, and you have to accept that.  There's no going back to what it once was, that reality is gone.  She directly told you that when she asked if you were okay talking to her when she was dating someone else.  It wasn't to hurt you, it was her saying that she wanted to talk to you, but couldn't be with you now.  You couldn't handle that though because you were still stuck in the past, of what once was.

I feel for you man, I really do.  At this stage though, she's no longer hurting you...you're hurting yourself because you can't accept that the old relationship is over.  It sucks, it's horrible, so don't think I'm judging you here.  I'm in the exact same situation.  But the only way I'm getting back with my wife is by her loving me for me the right way, something that she hasn't been capable of for years now.

Why?  Because she broke my heart and I had to find myself again.  What I found was a pretty awesome guy that has a love for this world and a lot of things in it.  I love her, always will, but I don't need her to be me.  I'm just fine being alone or with someone else.  It's impossible to get to that place though when you're focused on the past, on what was.

Let it go, my friend, and stop giving her power in your life.  She's just not worth all the pain and agony that you're still carrying.  If you're ever to reconcile, it has to be something completely new where you both have a new perspective on life.  You can't get there though while focusing on the past.  The past is dead, let it go.

[OKrunch]

I'm not contacting her anymore, and I'm journaling here like others have told me to do. You seem to be frustrated with my choice of topic and my choice of outlook. Sorry for that .

It is dead and I'm aware of that. It's the end of a chapter, or a book in a series.

I'm not reaching out and have said more than once I'm not expecting her to. Am I not allowed to WANT otherwise?

I understand the rational difference between what I feel and want versus what is logical action or inaction.


I've outlined what I would need to actually have a functional relationship, as well as my awareness that it's highly unlikely.

As far as letting it go?
I am, piece by piece, and I'll only let go of all of it when I'm good and ready. Until then, I'll continue to shave away at the questions and thoughts that come to mind that help me to find the peace and understanding I require to put this to bed for myself and move on, as you suggest.
I can't just drop a thing. I need to understand it as best I can.

Just because I continue to have thoughts and questions doesn't mean I'm not moving forward.
Alone.

[OKrunch]

Basically, every intuitive bone in my body tells me this is not a finished story, and it's the waiting game that's killing me.
At this point I'd LIKE it to be over, but every fiber of my being tells me it isn't.

[OKrunch]

I don't think I'm gonna get any recycling. Ever again.
My entire family has been scrubbed from social media. Every photo and memory. Every connection is severed.
I'll probably be blocked forever, all for the highly terrible crime of asking her to marry me.

Low point today.

[Pook075]

I'm not contacting her anymore, and I'm journaling here like others have told me to do. You seem to be frustrated with my choice of topic and my choice of outlook. Sorry for that .

Not all all, my friend, I just hate to see you hurting and unable to let it go.

[OKrunch]

That's just it.
I can't let go.

I told her "losing you to someone else is my biggest fear" and she knows it.
I still have hope. But it's fading, and that feels like it's killing me.
I still miss her, even after all the things she's done to hurt me.
I still love her because I still believe that this isn't the real her.

For a LONG TIME I doubted my intuition. It's had proven itself accurate too many times to ignore now. I know it, and I trust it.
Just like I felt "the show was going to drop" two weeks ago, and it did.
I still feel this isnt done.
And it's not because I don't want it to be.
If I could make this all stop and lose all my feelings for her, I would. It would hurt less.
I want this to stop.
That said, I feel in my intuitive bones this isn't done yet.

Right now, I don't have a part to play. I need to find myself while she does the same.
Time may be the final nail that truly drives us apart, who knows. Maybe if she ever talks to me again, which to my great pain, I'm seriously beginning to doubt, I will truly have moved in by then. If that is the only chapter to the book that remains, then so be it. At least A chapter yet still remains though, of that I am certain.

[Pook075]

Right now, I don't have a part to play. I need to find myself while she does the same.

Time may be the final nail that truly drives us apart, who knows.

You do have a part to play though because it's your life.  Your part is moving on and finding happiness that's not tied to her.  Join a bowling league.  Party in Vegas next weekend.  Go to a rock concert.  I don't know you or your hobbies, but you have to get out there and live.

Maybe you're right, maybe you haven't seen the final chapter yet.  But by focusing on self-care and healing, you have a chance to be the best version of yourself if that next chapter ever comes.  That's what I meant in the earlier post...moving on without her is the only way you could ever get her back with everything you want.

[OKrunch]

You do have a part to play though because it's your life.  Your part is moving on and finding happiness that's not tied to her.  Join a bowling league.  Party in Vegas next weekend.  Go to a rock concert.  I don't know you or your hobbies, but you have to get out there and live.

Maybe you're right, maybe you haven't seen the final chapter yet.  But by focusing on self-care and healing, you have a chance to be the best version of yourself if that next chapter ever comes.  That's what I meant in the earlier post...moving on without her is the only way you could ever get her back with everything you want.

That's pretty much where Im at after days of re-tilled emotion and a metric eff ton of inward looking.
As I've said, my spiritual views are very elemental based. I need to cleanse myself in a proper river. Barring that for now, I just took a long hot shower and got my "flowing water" in that way.

Yes, I agree, when you boil anything down to post breakup psychology, BPD or not. Whether you want to reconcile or not, the same things are at the core of healing.
Social life
Improvement in fitness
New healthy habits and hobbies
Growth.

No matter what happens in the next 1,3,6,12,24 months, I'll be a stronger, more attractive me.

[Pook075]

That's pretty much where Im at after days of re-tilled emotion and a metric eff ton of inward looking.
As I've said, my spiritual views are very elemental based. I need to cleanse myself in a proper river. Barring that for now, I just took a long hot shower and got my "flowing water" in that way.

Yes, I agree, when you boil anything down to post breakup psychology, BPD or not. Whether you want to reconcile or not, the same things are at the core of healing.
Social life
Improvement in fitness
New healthy habits and hobbies
Growth.

No matter what happens in the next 1,3,6,12,24 months, I'll be a stronger, more attractive me.

My spiritual views are Bible-based, and I couldn't help but think of your 'cleanse' being similar to a Baptism.  I heard a pastor recently say, "The person who's left you is not meant to be in this season of your life.  If they were, God wouldn't have let them leave."

Although you're not a believer, I would guess the universe is trying to tell you the same thing.  Let her go.  Renew.

[OKrunch]

My spiritual views are Bible-based, and I couldn't help but think of your 'cleanse' being similar to a Baptism.  I heard a pastor recently say, "The person who's left you is not meant to be in this season of your life.  If they were, God wouldn't have let them leave."

Although you're not a believer, I would guess the universe is trying to tell you the same thing.  Let her go.  Renew.

For my beliefs, each person has a pillar of light, or their soul.
As we go through life and meet people, and become close to people, our pillars intertwine and emmesh.
These pillars can split again, but are never the same afterwards.
The connection never truly fades, and when The Universe is aligned right, they come back together when theyre supposed to.
This happens with friends, lovers, even family.

Long story short: "If you love them, let them go, and if its meant to be, they will return"
If not, then we will go from there, and time and fate will move us both where it is supposed to.

[OKrunch]

So I've found, mornings are hardest..
It's the first thing I think of.
Woke this morning thinking about the fact that they're almost certainly wrapped up in bed together.

I went over old conversations last night and saw soo many examples of her crazy making madness, and yet I'd still rather deal with that than be without her.

[cranmango]

I hear you, friend. Mornings are hard for me, too. Nine months out now, and I still dream about my ex. She’s the first thing I think of in the morning. It takes me a good half hour most days to reset my mind, to regain perspective. It’s still hard, but not as hard as it was.

You’re moving soon, right? I hope that’s a chance to create new morning routines in a new environment. One day at a time.

[OKrunch]

I hear you, friend. Mornings are hard for me, too. Nine months out now, and I still dream about my ex. She’s the first thing I think of in the morning. It takes me a good half hour most days to reset my mind, to regain perspective. It’s still hard, but not as hard as it was.

You’re moving soon, right? I hope that’s a chance to create new morning routines in a new environment. One day at a time.

Yes, this weekend, thats exactly the plan.
But ever since she rubbed the relationship in my face Ive been plauged with thoughts of them wrapped up in bed, laughing at movies, playing with MY dogs.
Its freaking killing me, i feel like I did back in October when the wound was fresh. I am like a pendulum between anger and sadness right now.
Is this literally withdrawal?
I didnt feel this rotten when we were spurattically talking and she was keeping me at arms length, but i must have still thought there was hope then, and it was still giving me a dopamine whack.

I am strongly beginning to feel like she is forever done, there will be no recycle, no mental health, and she will just forget i exist and keep living the way she does.
We broke up 2 days after the 2 year anniversary of her grandmothers death, the same event that was the catalyst for our breakup last time.
This May 7th will be the 2 year anniversary of her grandFATHER passing, which is something that actually started us coming back togeather last time.

Regardless, that above is all pointless mind reading attempts.

I Know time will heal this, I have been down that path before.
The backsliding has really made me frustrated with myself,
and boy do I wish i could just fast forward to June.

She. Is. Dead. And. Gone. FOREVER.

[cranmango]

Those thoughts of your ex and the new partner are incredibly painful. I still get those thoughts of my ex often. What helps me is to try and balance them out with other thoughts. I imagine some of the most awful moments that I had with my ex—the bitter fights, the most hurtful things she said and did—and I imagine her having moments like that with her new partner.

Her new relationship won’t be all sunshine and roses. There will be pain and ugliness and hurt, too. Those parts won’t happen in public, and they won’t make it into social media. But they will happen.

You’ve got some milestones coming up in May that will be a challenge, just like the birthday was recently. You have time to prepare your defenses.

[OKrunch]

I imagine some of the most awful moments that I had with my ex—the bitter fights, the most hurtful things she said and did—and I imagine her having moments like that with her new partner.

Her new relationship won’t be all sunshine and roses. There will be pain and ugliness and hurt, too. Those parts won’t happen in public, and they won’t make it into social media. But they will happen.

You’ve got some milestones coming up in May that will be a challenge, just like the birthday was recently. You have time to prepare your defenses.

These are the things i tell myself also.

I acutally found some particularly vile snippets of old conversation (from Jan 2022, during a big dysregulation episode)
that i tucked away to use as reminders of how hurtful she can be.
I was caring, paitent, and supportive the entire convo, and she was viscious and pessimisstic.

I know the fear that "the new relationship will be all roses and ducklings" is my own mind fooling me, ive literally seen this not work before.

im trying to get meds, but no insurance is a thing.

[Rev]

I actually found some particularly vile snippets of old conversation (from Jan 2022, during a big dysregulation episode) that I tucked away to use as reminders of how hurtful she can be.

I was caring, patient, and supportive the entire convo, and she was vicious and pessimistic.

I know the fear that "the new relationship will be all roses and ducklings" is my own mind fooling me, I've literally seen this not work before.

I did similar things too - I found these things helpful in making it easier to remind myself not to A) blame myself B) Idealize the relationship C) stay focused on my healing.

I actually found that I was going to ruminate, at least I could ruminate on stuff that was moving me in a direction I wanted to go rather than staying stuck in negative self talk.  

It took effort for sure and not every day was easy. Shoot some days I would text her by accident on messenger and then need to erase the emoji and try to pretend like nothing happened. I felt so exposed in those early days.

And now coming on four years later, the memory that people like my ex exist and can do great harm lies in the forefront of my mind. But the vigilance I once felt has gone and the details of what it was like to live with her are vague - almost like one of the vacations that are memorable only because they are so forgettable.

Hope that helps.

Hope the venting is helping too.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[OKrunch]

I feel like a loser sitting here wishing and hoping the rebound will fail.
Probably exactly how she wants me feeling.

6 days of "Camper Isolation" remaining.

[SinisterComplex]

I feel like a loser sitting here wishing and hoping the rebound will fail.
Probably exactly how she wants me feeling.

6 days of "Camper Isolation" remaining.

Why do you feel like a loser? Explain this...

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

Why do you feel like a loser? Explain this...

Because I have been missing her, being kind to her, and being supportive when she was stressing out and we were still in touch.
I keep being nice, and supportive, and basically (without acutally saying it) telling her I am here, available and basically waiting. I am sure that is what all of my NC Mess ups have communicated.

I feel like a loser because I have been being told for months by you all, my therapist, my close family and friends, to give up, walk away, stop thinking about it and stop trying to figure her out, and keep on finding shreds of hope.

And all she has done has messed with my head, villified me, pushed me away, Kicked me and my 8 year old son out on the the streets TWICE (even though i couldve fought back on the Lease during the first breakup and DIDNT BECUASE I DIDNT WANT TO UPSET HER).

I feel like a loser because i cant move on. I cant get over her, i cant stop being in pain and jealous about the replacement/rebound.

I feel like i have made zero progress, i have zero power, and she doesnt care about any of it.
Is "Happily" living her life, the life we built together. With OUR dogs in OUR house.
I get nothing but dirt, bile and mistreatment, and yet im still pining over her.

That is why i Know i am a loser. Because I am losing. I have lost.

[Pook075]

Because I have been missing her, being kind to her, and being supportive when she was stressing out and we were still in touch.
I keep being nice, and supportive, and basically (without acutally saying it) telling her I am here, available and basically waiting. I am sure that is what all of my NC Mess ups have communicated.

I feel like a loser because I have been being told for months by you all, my therapist, my close family and friends, to give up, walk away, stop thinking about it and stop trying to figure her out, and keep on finding shreds of hope.

That makes you a good person, not a loser.

A loser would have cussed her out, cheated on her, lived off her for support, degraded her constantly, etc.  That's what a loser does.  You loved her and stood beside her, even when she went flippin' nuts on you and walked away.

Again, that's not a loser.  It's a guy in love with a broken heart.

[OKrunch]

That makes you a good person, not a loser.

A loser would have cussed her out, cheated on her, lived off her for support, degraded her constantly, etc.  That's what a loser does.  You loved her and stood beside her, even when she went flippin' nuts on you and walked away.

Again, that's not a loser.  It's a guy in love with a broken heart.

I have cussed her out...DEFINITLEY didnt cheat on her, She THINKS i lived of her for support, and all I ever did (except in weak moments when i was verbally beaten) was support her, even in times of hardship for her.

And she went flippin nuts on me Twice (techincally 3) and abrubtly ejected me and my son. She didnt walk anywhere. She stayed in the house I FOUND with the DOGS WE GOT TOGETHER.
She lost nothing. Walked away from nothing.

I got banished.

[OKrunch]

I feel like a loser because after all that, if she reached out right now and asked me to come over, I highly doubt id have the strength to say no.

And i just keep hoping the rebound fails, for that exact reason

[OKrunch]

One odd thing to note...last time i reached out (over a week ago now) was via email.

I have a Email tracker Gmail extention that tells me when and how often my emails are opened (i have had this on my email for ages)

She has opened and re-read that email a few times, and it was short. No real reason to re-read it.
Just odd that she has read it 4 times. Its only 2 sentences long.

[OKrunch]

My therapist said that I am probably right about her being done for good.
She said that because I told her I was seeing someone a few weeks back, that that will be the one thing she wont be able to get over (despite the fact that shes dated 2-3 guys since October and is openly dating one?)

Nothing makes sense

[SinisterComplex]

So you are not a loser. You are grieving still and in pain. You are running on emotion...you are human. Happens to everyone. I am going to give you some tough love for a moment though...no more BS about you being a loser. Is that understood? Head up. Enough beating yourself down. You are putting all this pressure on yourself for no damn good reason. Stop it. You have no one's expectations to fulfill but your own. Is that clear? You have nothing to prove and you have no one you need to seek approval from here. This is your own battle, your own struggle. Only you determine when enough is enough. You are in control. Keep in mind you have a son to worry about right? Start placing more focus there.

You have to shift your focus somehow and throw yourself into it. What better option than creating a better relationship with your own flesh and blood you helped create? Think of some new ideas. Be super dad. Seriously.

Yes, you can keep venting, but my man you have to do YOU. I am here to support you and have your back regardless. You are not perfect and you are probably still going to screw up...guess what? That is to be expected and that is okay. It is a process and no one is perfect. Just try to learn little bit by little bit so when you do inevitably mess up you take the time to go...wait a minute...I did make progress. Even if it seems minor...it has to start somewhere.

A lot of this will sound rehashed, but until you are ready to leave the circus we will be here helping you along the way. All I will ask of you is for you to take some time to read through everything you write and say it out loud to yourself and see how you feel about it and what you think about it.

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[cranmango]

OKrunch—Agree with what others have said. Just want to add that my timeline is similar to yours. Like you, I have continued to be supportive and kind to my ex, while she is off with her new partner. Like you, I have struggled with periods of NC and occasional recontact. Like you, I still struggle with rumination.

You know what has really helped? Reading the stories posted here, including yours. Knowing I’m not alone. Knowing that we struggle with similar things.

So thank you for sharing your story these last few months.

[OKrunch]

OKrunch—Agree with what others have said. Just want to add that my timeline is similar to yours. Like you, I have continued to be supportive and kind to my ex, while she is off with her new partner. Like you, I have struggled with periods of NC and occasional recontact. Like you, I still struggle with rumination.

You know what has really helped? Reading the stories posted here, including yours. Knowing I’m not alone. Knowing that we struggle with similar things.

So thank you for sharing your story these last few months.

It's hard because we talked throughout her last rebound. I always felt like "he wasnt a threat to me" and I ended up being right. It was rotten of her to do that to him though, so it makes me think, how much did she do that to me during our 2 runs at a relationship?
But at the same time I feel the same "hes not a threat" with this new guy sometimes too, (when im not assuming he will fix everything and live the unicorn fantasy dream of her being stable, which we all know is not true).
It makes me hope she reaches out and talks to me soon, but part of me knows thats a dead end, but damn do i still want it to happen.

I still feel like she and I are "soulmates" and the disorder is that challenge between us that we both need to overcome.
It was there to teach me proper attachment and anger management, and she will take the self awareness she already has and cultivate it into stability via therapy, meds and mindfullness.

I just cant find a place of balance between acceptance that the good things were real, at the time, and that they are to be enjoyed as good memories, while still completley detaching and moving on with healthy relationship habits, and a more stable partner.

My brian plays re-runs of our road trips, vacations, hoildays, and family moments in my head on reapeat all day. It is maddening.

[tina7868]

I still feel like she and I are "soulmates" and the disorder is that challenge between us that we both need to overcome.
It was there to teach me proper attachment and anger management, and she will take the self awareness she already has and cultivate it into stability via therapy, meds and mindfullness.

I just cant find a place of balance between acceptance that the good things were real, at the time, and that they are to be enjoyed as good memories, while still completley detaching and moving on with healthy relationship habits, and a more stable partner.

Give yourself time to get to a place of balance. Your feelings are still fresh. Even then, everyone has their own timeline. Whatever you feel is valid, and that includes seemingly contradicting perspectives.

[OKrunch]

Spidey Sense on high alert today...

[BigEasyHeart]

I still feel like she and I are "soulmates" and the disorder is that challenge between us that we both need to overcome.
It was there to teach me proper attachment and anger management, and she will take the self awareness she already has and cultivate it into stability via therapy, meds and mindfullness.

I just cant find a place of balance between acceptance that the good things were real, at the time, and that they are to be enjoyed as good memories, while still completley detaching and moving on with healthy relationship habits, and a more stable partner.

My brian plays re-runs of our road trips, vacations, hoildays, and family moments in my head on reapeat all day. It is maddening.

Don't be too hard on yourself. What you are experiencing is totally normal, especially with a loss like this. If you thought of yourself as soulmates / lifelong partners (as I did with my ex), it's going to take time for your brain to rewire. Treat yourself well, be patient with yourself, and accept where you are rather than adding the extra burden of feeling bad because you are not where you think you should be.

I find this article useful when thinking about this process: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/laugh-cry-live/202303/as-you-grieve-your-brain-redraws-its-neural-map

Here is a quote that I found particularly helpful:

"For many months, even though you know your relationship has changed, your brain’s neural map may lag behind. Your brain favors the implicit knowledge that the partner or loved one is everlasting and won’t update the map just because they haven't been around for a day, or even several months. It requires ample time and a ton of lived experience to absorb the absence, update the predictions, and complete this enormous redraw. In the meantime, the still-outdated areas of your neural map make you think, feel, and act as if your loved one is here, now, and close. Your grief is triggered every time an outdated prediction fails. You ruminate endlessly on what happened and what will become of you. You feel distracted and exhausted.

This monumental rewiring job explains a lot of what you’re experiencing as you mourn. You’re not crazy; your brain is rewiring itself, and you need time to feel whole again, reinvent your life, and plan a different future without your beloved. Knowing this can grant you more patience and self-compassion."

[OKrunch]

the main hurdle is that I know I don't fully want seperation, no contact, or to detach.
Part of me does, for self preservation, but I know in my heart I am not ready to give up on her, and that feels right and wrong at the same time.

[tina7868]

What an insightful article, thank you for sharing. Here are a few other quotes that I found of interest:

Of course, we consciously understand that death and unforeseen events can tear us apart, but as far as the non-conscious brain is concerned, whenever we are separated—for a minute, a few hours, a week, or more—it “knows” we will be reunited. Without this implicit knowledge, life would be unbearable, as we’d be thrown into panic, grief, and seeking every time we were apart. Instead, with this implicit knowledge that our loved one is “everlasting,” we rest assured.

In trying to make sense of the absence, your brain struggles to reconcile two opposing pieces of knowledge—the conscious knowledge that they are gone, and the powerful, implicit knowledge that they are everlasting. This struggle explains some of the more bewildering and crazy-making aspects of grieving.

Each time you confront these two opposing pieces of knowledge, it triggers painful grief and you yearn deeply.

If your partner abandoned you, maintaining a connection is more fraught but still a normal part of the grieving process. As your brain laboriously redraws the neural map of this relationship and you ease into reinventing your life, you’ll gradually and naturally ease away from resisting the reality of their departure and wishing for their return.

Feeling like you aren't ready to let go is part of the process. Give yourself time.

[jaded7]

What an insightful article, thank you for sharing. Here are a few other quotes that I found of interest:

Feeling like you aren't ready to let go is part of the process. Give yourself time.

Thank you for excerpting these. They are really helpful, and they are making it easier for me to understand why my brain is SO messed up. I am simultaneously holding on to her because I believe we are everlasting, while reckoning with the realization that she has stepped away from and out of my life.

These things do not, cannot, match up. It causes me to question what love is, what it means.

And thus the resisting, which for me (maybe many of us) means the constant viewing of videos on BPD/Covert Narcissism, toxic relationships, verbal abuse, ghosting...all in an attempt to convince myself it's GOOD she's gone. If it's good she's gone, then I won't have to suffer the way I am now.

[OKrunch]

Today is therapy day for her Daughter. I really want to send a simple "Youve got this, youll both do great" message.

Here I am, only thinking of supporting them, and im sure If I did it would be ignored, or i'd be yelled at.

[Rev]

Today is therapy day for her Daughter. I really want to send a simple "Youve got this, youll both do great" message.

Here I am, only thinking of supporting them, and im sure If I did it would be ignored, or i'd be yelled at.

Glad you reached out here.  I'd say that your intuition is correct.

[OKrunch]

Glad you reached out here.  I'd say that your intuition is correct.

Me too, i didnt send it.

I apologize if i post too much. My job is horridly slow, and it affords me much time to think, and type.

I feel motivated to do "what works", I do care a great deal about her feelings, which i know are tumultuous and all over the place, and that must be an exhausting and maddening way to live.

I have read seperate schools of thought regarding what does and doesn't cause triggers. 

While Painted black, if I DONT peridoically touch base, will that trigger abandonment fears?
If I do reach out periodically, will it cause fear of engulfment or anger her because I am not "Giving her what she needs" (Space)
This confusion is what makes me want to reach out, or feel anxious as hell If I do.


When "happily in a relationship", and I see a trigger occuring, or an anxiety attack, and i generally want to help calm and soothe it, do i give space, or support?
Again, space could cause abandonment or be viewed as "not caring" and  the support could cause engulfment, or be viewed as "being too involved".
I Guess the best thing to to there would be literally ask, do you need space or support?
(this is genralizing for any relationship with a sensitive person, as i want to have the skills to succseed in any future relationship)

[tina7868]

I apologize if i post too much. My job is horridly slow, and it affords me much time to think, and type.

No need to apologize. We can relate to how you are feeling, and we are here to support you.

I have read seperate schools of thought regarding what does and doesn't cause triggers.

While Painted black, if I DONT peridoically touch base, will that trigger abandonment fears?
If I do reach out periodically, will it cause fear of engulfment or anger her because I am not "Giving her what she needs" (Space)
This confusion is what makes me want to reach out, or feel anxious as hell If I do.

Many of us on this forum have asked ourselves a version of this. You get to a point where you accept that your ex is gone, but you're not ready to give up. So you ask yourself, what is the best way to set yourself up? Should you reach out? Should you leave them alone? I am going to share an answer written by SinisterComplex (I hope they don't mind!) to a similar question on another board that I saved for myself, and think might be helpful when it comes to your questions.

You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. It is pretty much the status quo. All you can do is focus on you and improve you. Additionally, try to be more comfortable with being indifferent and not emotionally reactionary. Showing too much emotion will actually make things worse for you. Keep in mind with the disorder there is a ticking clock for a quota of emotion that can be endured before he or she is triggered. - The best way to deal with this is to practice being firm and indifferent as in do not react emotionally, but also show you are firm in your stance on any given issue.

Also, there is nothing you can do other than let her come to you. That's it. You have no control over that. Accept that and go about your business and focus on you. When she comes back...notice I say when...then be prepared and stay in the frame of mind of firm and indifferent if it is the relationship you want and want to stick with for the long haul.

[OKrunch]

Thank you Tina, that quote was so on point I needed to read that.


She keeps re-reading that email...?

[Rev]

Me too, i didnt send it.

I apologize if i post too much. My job is horridly slow, and it affords me much time to think, and type.

I feel motivated to do "what works", I do care a great deal about her feelings, which i know are tumultuous and all over the place, and that must be an exhausting and maddening way to live.

I have read seperate schools of thought regarding what does and doesn't cause triggers. 

While Painted black, if I DONT peridoically touch base, will that trigger abandonment fears?
If I do reach out periodically, will it cause fear of engulfment or anger her because I am not "Giving her what she needs" (Space)
This confusion is what makes me want to reach out, or feel anxious as hell If I do.


When "happily in a relationship", and I see a trigger occuring, or an anxiety attack, and i generally want to help calm and soothe it, do i give space, or support?
Again, space could cause abandonment or be viewed as "not caring" and  the support could cause engulfment, or be viewed as "being too involved".
I Guess the best thing to to there would be literally ask, do you need space or support?
(this is genralizing for any relationship with a sensitive person, as i want to have the skills to succseed in any future relationship)

Crunch... I won't tell you not to apologize. "Cause I hear you almost saying that you wish you didn't feel the need to and you could be done with all of this.

What I will say is this - it is an honor to be part of  your journey. One day, you will pay this forward, just like there are others who are right where you are who are thankful that you are working through your stuff.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[once removed]

I have read seperate schools of thought regarding what does and doesn't cause triggers.  

While Painted black, if I DONT peridoically touch base, will that trigger abandonment fears?
If I do reach out periodically, will it cause fear of engulfment or anger her because I am not "Giving her what she needs" (Space)
This confusion is what makes me want to reach out, or feel anxious as hell If I do.

i had a similar question when i arrived here.

i think that there is an easier way to think of abandonment fears.

think of the fear of flying. it exists on a spectrum. i have a little bit of it; i prefer not to fly, but its not a major issue, never has been, if i need to fly.

someone on the more extreme end of the spectrum would organize their life in such a way as to avoid ever flying, or ever needing to fly. they would never take a job where they had to travel. if they ever were in a situation where they had no choice, they might need to be sedated.

everyone has a fear of abandonment. we are all somewhere on the spectrum. people with bpd traits are generally on the more extreme end of it.

they build their lives in a way to avoid it.

that fear is something more akin to a lifestyle than something that we can simply trigger, or affect. for example, when some get the idea of going "no contact" in order to try to get someone back (?), it is a messy approach. it isnt really the way that the fear of abandonment works.

the fear of engulfment is more complex than first glance would suggest.

being overly clingy or dependent on someone will make them feel smothered and generally turn them off, yes; thats generally true for everyone. the bpd fear of engulfment is on the more extreme end of the spectrum.

we all put our best foot forward, show the best side of ourselves, in order to attract a mate. people with bpd traits take it to a pathological level, in part because of a fear of rejection, in part because of a weak or unstable sense of self, in part because they feel very intensely when they fall for someone.

the problem is that when you begin a relationship that way, it can get pretty hard to keep up being someone youre not. you may feel self loathing. and, rather than feel that self loathing, you may, ultimately, come to resent your partner because you perceive that they put all this on you, expect it of you, and that your partner doesnt really love you for who you are. that is what the fear of engulfment is really all about. it is one of the things that really flies the lowest on the radar to us; who would know that this is going on under the surface? my own ex did everything she could to be the person she believed i wanted her to be, and she grew to resent me for it. its obvious in hindsight. at the time i had no idea.

how does all of this apply to you?

whether you want her back, or whether you want to move on, the approach in your situation is, by and large, the same.

if she is in a new relationship, its something you really want to give a wide berth. it has to play out. if, for example, you tried to sabotage it, or you were a major presence, and she came back to you, it would crash and burn quickly. alternatively, your presence (especially if the two of you are fighting), it could push her deeper into it.

so, rather than "should i contact her, should i not contact her", i would be thinking in terms of giving this thing a wide berth, trying, to the extent i can, to emotionally move on, rebuild my life, and be that most attractive version of myself, whether she ends up back in it or not.

right now, her attention is going to be on this relationship; thats just the way it is, and needs to be. i dont think that necessarily means she wont be in touch at all. i suspect she might be. but, i would let her lead on that completely, and leave all of that up to her.

[jaded7]

While Painted black, if I DONT peridoically touch base, will that trigger abandonment fears?
If I do reach out periodically, will it cause fear of engulfment or anger her because I am not "Giving her what she needs" (Space)
This confusion is what makes me want to reach out, or feel anxious as hell If I do.


When "happily in a relationship", and I see a trigger occuring, or an anxiety attack, and i generally want to help calm and soothe it, do i give space, or support?
Again, space could cause abandonment or be viewed as "not caring" and  the support could cause engulfment, or be viewed as "being too involved".
I Guess the best thing to to there would be literally ask, do you need space or support?
(this is genralizing for any relationship with a sensitive person, as i want to have the skills to succseed in any future relationship)

This was a constant problem for me, whether to reach out or not when she was ghosting and going silent.

Is she mad at me? Did I do something wrong? Thinking, thinking. Is she ok? Does she need help?

Reach out to ask if there's a reason she's not communicating...thinking it's a normal question/boundary in a relationship (had suddenly gone silent, breadcrumb "busy" text in the morning, not responding to calls or texts for 2 day)----->EXPLOSION.  Immediate call within 4 seconds (wait, thought you were 'busy'), no hello just "you need mental health help! It feels controlling! I gave you an itinerary for the weekend!" (nope...she did not...sent a text Saturday morning saying that she and her son were going to the market early since he had a lot of homework. Fine, have a good time, talk to you later I said)

Or...send her a text on another occasion, she ignores it, ignores an email a day or two later...so I quit trying and she texts a few days later to meet and says "what's going on, I haven't heard from you".

I say what do you mean you haven't heard from me? I remind her that I texted her and emailed her and she never responded to either, she replies angrily "your text had an exclamation point in it"...? As if that's an answer, as if that has anything to say about the absurdity of her telling me she hasn't heard from me. Texts with exclamation points somewhere in them don't count as 'hearing from me'? Emails don't count as 'hearing from me'?

You simply can't win.

[OKrunch]

Wow, really really great information, thank you all so much.

The "Spidey Sense" just went bonkers again for the 3rd time today.
Similar to my "shoe is gonna drop" gut feeling.
Something is happening.

Im enjoying the warm night and almost full moon.

[OKrunch]

Had a good cry this morning. I have a hard time crying, and its always very cleansing when I can manage it.
So, my mood is doing pretty good today. Going to finalize paperwork for new apartment after work. Excited to move this weekend, Next weeks weather looks sunny and amazing. FInally real spring weather, return of my normal custody and a new home, Finally. Good things.

"Spidey Sense" is still on high alert, came in strong waves yesterday.
Something is definitley coming down the pipe. What, I cannot say.

[cranmango]

Rooting for you, friend. Crying can indeed be very cleansing.

Stay connected to the present moment. Lots of positive steps for you today and in the coming weeks.

[OKrunch]

No contact is a thing.

It is working on me, and as a secondary (not my intention) i believe it is working on her end as well.

The challenge is this, the longer NC goes, the stronger my intuition and temptation get, but so too do the rewards and growth of NC increase over time as well.

[Pook075]

No contact is a thing.

It is working on me, and as a secondary (not my intention) i believe it is working on her end as well.

The challenge is this, the longer NC goes, the stronger my intuition and temptation get, but so too do the rewards and growth of NC increase over time as well.

If it helps, I've been NC for about 5 months now and it's been bugging me as well.  My wife's called 3 or 4 times, over bills or friends, and we had pretty good (short) conversations each time.  She called yesterday because she heard I got laid off at work and she wanted to see if I was okay.

I often wonder if NC is the way to go, but the bottom line is that my wife had/has some mental health stuff she has to work through before we will be able to talk about us.  Maybe that day never comes and I'll be okay with that.  It is really hard to leave one foot in the door though, so to speak, while trying to wait and move on at the same time.

From my experience, what helped me heal the most, was to completely let her go and live her own life.  I can't wait for her because the odds are slim that it ever works out between us.  I think to myself all the time, "we were married for 24 years", but that's sort of the hook- what we had during the good times is nothing like where we're at today- her or me.  We're both different people and the damage has been done. 

I can move on from that and completely forgive her, but right now she's incapable of doing that with me.  So there's no path forward today and I accept that.  I will continue to hope our paths cross again down the road but at the same time, I'm not sitting back waiting on it either.  I have to live my life and be happy without her.

[OKrunch]

If it helps, I've been NC for about 5 months now and it's been bugging me as well.  My wife's called 3 or 4 times, over bills or friends, and we had pretty good (short) conversations each time.  She called yesterday because she heard I got laid off at work and she wanted to see if I was okay.

I am trying not to spend so much time thinking about and anticipating similar style temp checks. If patterns maintain, they will happen soon, but they may not.
But holy hell, every day that goes by that she doesn't, it is harder for me not to reach out, and the desire for her to do so grows.

" i would be thinking in terms of giving this thing a wide berth, trying, to the extent i can, to emotionally move on, rebuild my life, and be that most attractive version of myself, whether she ends up back in it or not.

right now, her attention is going to be on this relationship; thats just the way it is, and needs to be. i dont think that necessarily means she wont be in touch at all. i suspect she might be. but, i would let her lead on that completely, and leave all of that up to her."
THIS ^^

[OKrunch]

I often wonder if NC is the way to go, but the bottom line is that my wife had/has some mental health stuff she has to work through before we will be able to talk about us.  Maybe that day never comes and I'll be okay with that.  It is really hard to leave one foot in the door though, so to speak, while trying to wait and move on at the same time.

I can very much agree with this outlook also.

[SinisterComplex]

If it helps, I've been NC for about 5 months now and it's been bugging me as well.  My wife's called 3 or 4 times, over bills or friends, and we had pretty good (short) conversations each time.  She called yesterday because she heard I got laid off at work and she wanted to see if I was okay.

I often wonder if NC is the way to go, but the bottom line is that my wife had/has some mental health stuff she has to work through before we will be able to talk about us.  Maybe that day never comes and I'll be okay with that.  It is really hard to leave one foot in the door though, so to speak, while trying to wait and move on at the same time.

From my experience, what helped me heal the most, was to completely let her go and live her own life.  I can't wait for her because the odds are slim that it ever works out between us.  I think to myself all the time, "we were married for 24 years", but that's sort of the hook- what we had during the good times is nothing like where we're at today- her or me.  We're both different people and the damage has been done. 

I can move on from that and completely forgive her, but right now she's incapable of doing that with me.  So there's no path forward today and I accept that.  I will continue to hope our paths cross again down the road but at the same time, I'm not sitting back waiting on it either.  I have to live my life and be happy without her.

Bottom line is you have to figure out what works for you and when you do then commit to it full steam ahead. Half-@$$ing anything just leads to half-@$$ed results. Can't believe I just said that... my dad used to say that crap to me when I was in sports. I guess the wisdom stuck because here I am passing it on...Go figure how that old stuff filters through at random times. 

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

Last night was awful.
Dreams, and now daydreams of them cuddling, playing with the dogs in our sunny lakeside yard, having sex, all wonderfuly detailed images my brain is force feeding me.
Why does my mind insist on torturing me, even when im activley trying to keep it out of my head.?

It makes not reaching out 10x harder...

[cranmango]

I hear you. I’ve struggled with those thoughts for months. I still have those those thoughts and dreams, but less often and less intense now. Time and distance.

You know what has made it 100x worse for me? Reaching out to my ex. It rips the scab off and the pain starts over again. I’ve made that mistake more times than I care to admit.

[OKrunch]

I hear you. I’ve struggled with those thoughts for months. I still have those those thoughts and dreams, but less often and less intense now. Time and distance.

You know what has made it 100x worse for me? Reaching out to my ex. It rips the scab off and the pain starts over again. I’ve made that mistake more times than I care to admit.

Yea, I won't be doing that.
Each day I want to more, but I know itll be fruitless and likely painful.

[OKrunch]

 I cracked again.

 Emailed an instagram link about archeology. This was the reply.

 "Please understand that I do not hate you but I need you to stop contacting me. (HER DAUGHTER) is NOT well. It was shared with me that she cites one of her traumas being you and I fighting, the violent outbursts, and all the angry energy we put into the house. (She mentioned being terrified and listening the day of the head lock) I am blaming myself for all her pains right now because one of the contributing factors was me having you move in so fast. It is hindsight of course and I’m trying to go easy on myself, but I cannot handle any contact at this time. Please give me space. Please. I cannot and will not reconcile, especially after hearing the damage we did to (HER DAUGHTER) (and MY SON, although that is speculation). I can only hope that I will make better choices and never hurt anyone the way they were hurt again. Be well. "

I feel blamed, and hurt. Please let me know your analysis of this. I need a deep dive. Seems odd in light of her forming new relationships...

The headlock thing she mentions was a day she punched me, and i held her down in defense of myself.
It always gets brough up, and her punching me is rarely mentioned.

I didnt ask about reconciling. Or her daughter.
It was just an instagram article about Roman coins.

I have not replied to this.

If I did it would be "I was just trying to share something i thought you'd find interesting. I wasn't trying to reconcile. I am sorry to hear about DAUGHTER. You be well also"

[OKrunch]

Yea, I won't be doing that.
Each day I want to more, but I know itll be fruitless and likely painful.

Well, that lasted all of 4 hours

[Pook075]

"Please understand that I do not hate you but I need you to stop contacting me. (HER DAUGHTER) is NOT well.

You wanted a deep dive.  Here we go.  First two sentences are very clear- she doesn't want to talk to you because she wants to focus on her daughter.  

I get that you said she's seeing other guys, so that doesn't mesh with the whole "focus on the kid" angle.  But in her mind, you/her hurt the kid and she can't do that anymore.

It was shared with me that she cites one of her traumas being you and I fighting, the violent outbursts, and all the angry energy we put into the house. (She mentioned being terrified and listening the day of the head lock)

This is tough.  My gut reaction- I feel for the kid more than anything, whether any of this is true or not.  I've learned from others with BPD that a counselor says one thing, they hear what they want to hear.  But you have to accept this as her reality because it's real to her.

Again, I really feel for the kid here.

I am blaming myself for all her pains right now because one of the contributing factors was me having you move in so fast. It is hindsight of course and I’m trying to go easy on myself, but I cannot handle any contact at this time.

She's taking responsibility here, which is good.  She's setting boundaries as well, which is healthy.  It is also clear that she's reflected on everything that happened and taken partial ownership.  The "problem" wasn't you moving in, it was the fighting...but still.  She's working thru this.

Please give me space. Please. I cannot and will not reconcile, especially after hearing the damage we did to (HER DAUGHTER) (and MY SON, although that is speculation).

To you, it was a harmless link to a story.  To her, it was you trying to win her back in some way.  You have to respect her wishes brother and give her space.  It is interesting though that once again, she uses "we" in causing damage.  She's taking responsibility.

I can only hope that I will make better choices and never hurt anyone the way they were hurt again. Be well. "

The blame is still twisted, it's not the fighting or yelling that hurt the kid, it was letting you move in.  She clearly wants and needs space.

If you were to reply to this (which you shouldn't), it would be a huge mistake to defend your intentions for sending the link.  Your #1 concern should be her #1 concern- comforting the kid and making this right.  Because let's face it, she's right that the kid is worse off because you were there.  I'm not saying it's your fault or anything like that, but the only proper reply would be about her daughter and offering to help fix that relationship.

Again though, replying is a mistake.

[OKrunch]

Pook,
That was a tremendously insightful and helpful response and I cannot thank you enough. You are spot on with every point you make and your level headed responses helped me make sense of a very hurtful and confusing situation. The only thing about what she said that sticks out to me is the fact that she said I can't handle any contact at this time. I don't know if that was just the way that she phrased it, or she said that on purpose but I'm not going to ruminate over choice of words too much, because she also said I cannot and will not reconcile (although I have heard that more than once before)
At the end of the day I care most about DAUGHTER and MY SON being well.

She is an amazing little lady and I love her like she is my own.
If I need to be Batman right now and be "the hero the city needs" by being "the bad guy" (more excommunicated than BAD, but im reaching for a nerdy metaphor here, work with me)
If I need to suffer so DAUGHTER and EX can heal, so be it. I will Heal too while I'm at it.
If I have to do this knowing she's filling the space with a replacement, SO be it.
It sucks, but I'll endure it, and survive it. Because its what we all need right now.

When we are painted White I have often heard the term "White Knight" used. This suits me as I am definitley a "caretaker" and a huge medievil/fantasy nerd.
So if being painted black, means I have to be The Dark Knight, then so be it. Light up that Bat Signal folks. I'm on the job.

“Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.”
Lt. James Gordon, Gotham City Police

[Couscous]

I gotta say, I really feel for the kids. I think they are going to need to get into counseling to help them process what was likely a traumatizing experience for them. It would also be hugely beneficial for your son if he sees that you are getting help for the anger management issues, and for you to abstain from dating until you have that under control. As parents one of our main jobs is to teach (and model) anger management skills to our kids, and I am sure that you do not wish to see your son following in your footsteps.

[OKrunch]

Moving day is here. The end of my camper isolation. 198 days, two full seasons.



I still find myself dissecting the email she last sent me, looking for little hidden meanings that I know are probably not there. She has opened and reread that email 33 times. Most were in Rapid succession on Thursday night after I sent it. I did not reply to what she had sent me. I'm a bit confused as to why she would need to open an email that was 2 sentences long, 33 times.

Moving Forward:
 with moving into a new home I am trying to start a completely new book not even a new chapter. I will continue to post here but I'm only going to do so to talk about my own development, and to track my no contact progress. I will obviously make note of any Reach Out attempts that I have from her. My point is that I'm no longer going to be using this form as a way to try and figure out what she thinks what she's going to do or why she has done what she has done. I have as much insight into that as I'm going to get, and the rest of it is guess work.



I have several goals and new habits that I'm going to try and form and adhere to with my new apartment.
Fathering comes before all other things
Fitness
Better Diet (I dont need to lose weight but Ive been eating like crap for 6 months)
Re-Quitting Tobbacco
Establishing a consistant savings
Finding a "Side hustle" to earn more money during all my down time at work as opposed to useless rumination.
Start a garden at my work.
Find new social hubs in my new town.

 I will see that I have improved on one front, while I still have many intrusive thoughts about how she is living happily with the replacement, building on the foundation that we started, acting like I never existed and all the other things that hurt, I'm reminding myself that just like the rebound guy, this new fella, even if he ends up being longer term, is going to have to deal with all the same crap that I did. It is not the everyone is happy Fantasyland that my negative thinking brain likes to tell me that it is. She is still erratic, stressed, quick to flip a mood and can be seriously judgmental. My brain is faster to remind me of these things now, even though I still think about things like the moment I proposed to her, our kids belly laughing together, our trips and vacations and all of the loving moments that I know were so real to me and Dr Jekyll, but Mr Hyde is behind the wheel now and there's nothing for it

[Pook075]

Moving day is here. The end of my camper isolation. 198 days, two full seasons.

All good stuff buddy, you're heading in the right direction.  Just wanted to share a tidbit of my life that may help give a little perspective.

As you know, I'm a Christian.  I've struggled to move on because the Bible says not to divorce, so in the back of my mind I've always wanted to honor God and avoid making the wrong move.  I've prayed to move on and didn't 'feel like' those prayers were answered, so I've just remained on hold for these past 8 months.

Last week, I got laid off out of nowhere.  I texted my wife to let her know the health insurance would end on the 1st.  She called that evening and we talked a little bit, and it felt good that she had some sense of decency left when it came to me.  Nothing kind, mind you...but she called to check up on me.

She also asked on that call if I'd meet her at the DMV to transfer her tags since it's in both of our names.  I agreed because I'll always help her no matter what, even though she hasn't been there for me at all since the break-up.  My requests go unanswered, yet she calls when she needs something.  So typical.  We were going to meet yesterday but the DMV was closed for the holiday, so another call from her to reschedule.  Then she called yesterday for help with her taxes and how to file.

As I was talking to her about the taxes, she said, "I'm sorry to bother you, I've bothered you a lot lately and I don't want to."  I replied, "It's never a bother, we spent half our lives together and I'll always be there for you."  She replied, "Yeah, but I don't want that and I don't want you."

Now, in this moment, you'd think I'd be hurt- that was cold as ice.  But it had the opposite effect and I felt a release.  It was almost like God said, "Okay, it's finally time for your next chapter to begin."  Maybe 2 hours later, someone from a dating site reached out to me, someone I'd had my eyes on for awhile.  We exchanged contact info and talked for the next 4 or 5 hours, and it was so weird because it was like we had known each other for years already.  Everything just clicked.

I'm not saying that the new gal I met will lead to anything, who knows.  My point here though is that I finally heard that one sentence, that one thing, that completely shifted my mindset and focus.  I deserve better than what I've received and I'm a great guy, a great 'catch'.  That's who I woke up as today and I'm not just saying it, I believe it.  I know it to be true because that's who I always have been.

I know you don't believe in God, so hopefully you understand I only included that because it was a part of my journey, a message I've been waiting for.  If you let it, the universe will eventually tell you the same thing- you're a great guy and you're okay, stop chasing the past and the pain that it brings.  There's a new you just waiting to be born and live the life you're meant to live.

I hope that helps buddy- I'm here for you anytime.

[OKrunch]

All good stuff buddy, you're heading in the right direction.  Just wanted to share a tidbit of my life that may help give a little perspective.

As you know, I'm a Christian.  I've struggled to move on because the Bible says not to divorce, so in the back of my mind I've always wanted to honor God and avoid making the wrong move.  I've prayed to move on and didn't 'feel like' those prayers were answered, so I've just remained on hold for these past 8 months.
I may not be a religious fellow, but as you know, I was married and divorced before the relationship with my EX that I post about here. My ex wife cheated on me within weeks of getting married, and I still wanted to save that. I believe in Oaths and the strength of ones words and convictions BIG TIME. I held on to that "In sickness and in health" clause for a long time. I did the same in regards to my recent EX, promises i made to her, and the Oath of Engagement we made together. It was as strong as a marraige oath in my eyes, and i honestly believe that getting engaged was the catalyst to this entire second downfall. She cannot handle the thought of something that serious and permenant.


Last week, I got laid off out of nowhere.  I texted my wife to let her know the health insurance would end on the 1st.  She called that evening and we talked a little bit, and it felt good that she had some sense of decency left when it came to me.  Nothing kind, mind you...but she called to check up on me.


She also asked on that call if I'd meet her at the DMV to transfer her tags since it's in both of our names.  I agreed because I'll always help her no matter what, even though she hasn't been there for me at all since the break-up.  My requests go unanswered, yet she calls when she needs something.  So typical.  We were going to meet yesterday but the DMV was closed for the holiday, so another call from her to reschedule.  Then she called yesterday for help with her taxes and how to file.
Boy, did those words ring true. Rules for me but not for thee big time.
As I was talking to her about the taxes, she said, "I'm sorry to bother you, I've bothered you a lot lately and I don't want to."  I replied, "It's never a bother, we spent half our lives together and I'll always be there for you."  She replied, "Yeah, but I don't want that and I don't want you."
She was waiting for a moment to slide that in there, and see if it hurt you, and in her hubris assumed you saying you'd always be there, that you meant "im here for you to do whatever, whenever". Seriously, cruel.

Now, in this moment, you'd think I'd be hurt- that was cold as ice.  But it had the opposite effect and I felt a release.  It was almost like God said, "Okay, it's finally time for your next chapter to begin."  Maybe 2 hours later, someone from a dating site reached out to me, someone I'd had my eyes on for awhile.  We exchanged contact info and talked for the next 4 or 5 hours, and it was so weird because it was like we had known each other for years already.  Everything just clicked.

I'm not saying that the new gal I met will lead to anything, who knows.  My point here though is that I finally heard that one sentence, that one thing, that completely shifted my mindset and focus.  I deserve better than what I've received and I'm a great guy, a great 'catch'.  That's who I woke up as today and I'm not just saying it, I believe it.  I know it to be true because that's who I always have been.

I know you don't believe in God, so hopefully you understand I only included that because it was a part of my journey, a message I've been waiting for.  If you let it, the universe will eventually tell you the same thing- you're a great guy and you're okay, stop chasing the past and the pain that it brings.  There's a new you just waiting to be born and live the life you're meant to live.

I hope that helps buddy- I'm here for you anytime.

Worth mentioning I don't NOT believe in God either. I really believe that whatever is on the other side of The Veil is far and above what out simple 3dimensional minds can even begin to comprehend. I can say that in the last 10 years of my life I have come to believe in some degree of "things are meant to happen and they will, and theres a reason for it"
When I talk about "The Universe" or "The Great Magnet" (Earth), i feel like that is the same sense of presence you find from God.

I appreciate everything Pook, and I feel similar "cutting of cords" occuring.
The move, a new area, a new schedule, new hobbies and habits, this will all fade from Vivid 4k, to 720P, to CRT to black and white, to silent film.
In the archives it will go, and the pain will lessen, as it already has.

Thank you all.

[Pook075]

Worth mentioning I don't NOT believe in God either. I really believe that whatever is on the other side of The Veil is far and above what out simple 3dimensional minds can even begin to comprehend. I can say that in the last 10 years of my life I have come to believe in some degree of "things are meant to happen and they will, and theres a reason for it"
When I talk about "The Universe" or "The Great Magnet" (Earth), i feel like that is the same sense of presence you find from God.

I appreciate everything Pook, and I feel similar "cutting of cords" occuring.
The move, a new area, a new schedule, new hobbies and habits, this will all fade from Vivid 4k, to 720P, to CRT to black and white, to silent film.
In the archives it will go, and the pain will lessen, as it already has.

Thank you all.

Thanks friend, and I agree with everything you said.  The Bible says God created the universe, you connect with the universe, which means you're connecting with God (in my opinion, anyway).  You will get through this and come out a better man for it on the other side.

Good luck moving bro!  It has to be exciting to be taking this big step.

[OKrunch]

Just finished moving, too tired to be depressed tonight.
Feels good to have my own pad again.

[Rev]

Just finished moving, too tired to be depressed tonight.
Feels good to have my own pad again.

Congratulations.

Pleasant dreams.

Tomorrow is a new day.

Rev

[SinisterComplex]

Just finished moving, too tired to be depressed tonight.
Feels good to have my own pad again.

That therein lies the trick...load yourself up with tasks then you quite literally do not have time for anything other than getting S done. BTW...congrats. Take all the little victories you can and continue to get better.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

I woke up with one oddly specific question in my head.

Why in every correspondence in the last few months that she reminded me that she doesn't hate me. Every behavior and word from her otherwise would indicate the opposite. Very strange.

Woke up feeling lonely but I suppose that's to be expected on the first morning in a new apartment, still twists my guts to think that she is not waking up alone. It is what it is I guess.

Beautiful day out.

[BigEasyHeart]

Congratulations on your new place. I'll be moving myself, probably this week so I can relate. I'm looking forward to having my own space again but also know it will be strange waking up alone those first days.

I don't know how to help you with the "I don't hate you" thing except to say that I've been through something similar and it may help to consider that this person does not process emotions as a typical adult does. Think of how a young child acts out towards their own parents.

[Pook075]

Congratulations on your new place. I'll be moving myself, probably this week so I can relate. I'm looking forward to having my own space again but also know it will be strange waking up alone those first days.

I don't know how to help you with the "I don't hate you" thing except to say that I've been through something similar and it may help to consider that this person does not process emotions as a typical adult does. Think of how a young child acts out towards their own parents.

I completely agree with everything Big Easy said.  Every conversation is an explosion of emotions in the moment and have nothing to do with what was said last week, last year, or 5 minutes ago.  They're not connected...everything is in the moment and without any logic or reason behind them.

[Couscous]

Why in every correspondence in the last few months that she reminded me that she doesn't hate me. Every behavior and word from her otherwise would indicate the opposite. Very strange.

In fact there is nothing strange about this at all. She doesn't hate you, she just hates the angry and violent behavior. Her Mama Bear instincts kicked in and her desire to protect the children supersedes her feelings for you, and as such, she is acting as a rational adult in this situation. Does that make sense?

[OKrunch]

In fact there is nothing strange about this at all. She doesn't hate you, she just hates the angry and violent behavior. Her Mama Bear instincts kicked in and her desire to protect the children supersedes her feelings for you, and as such, she is acting as a rational adult in this situation. Does that make sense?

I think you may have the wrong idea as to what occurred throughout the relationship.
I don't disagree with what you think she may think, but her recollection of events is not accurate.

[tina7868]

I want to join in on congratulating you on your move. Wishing you growth and success as you work on your admirable goals, and looking forward to reading you share your journey as you walk down this new path.

[OKrunch]

I know I look for patterns in too many things but I find it interesting that today  marks exactly 200 days since we broke up and I got kicked out.



I just wrote in my personal Journal that I have a few goals now that I'm in a completely new situation. No more checking social media, no more reaching out for any reason at all whatsoever no if ands or buts about it. Responding if she reaches out is the only thing, and I need to make sure that when she does reach out it's not just because she needs something which is the most likely scenario.



Too exhausted to worry about it over the weekend, although I did have a very strong spidey sense wave come through on Saturday evening. Other than that I am not paying it any mind other than respecting the fleeting thoughts that come into my head and then letting them go on their way.



I do have some milestones in my head, the anniversary of her grandfather's death, the anniversary of our engagement at the end of June, my birthday and mid July. These are all likely reach out. And then of course the anniversary of our breakup at the end of the September. By the time these dates roll around I probably won't give too much of a crap about it anymore anyway, but they are still in my head as of now.

 The random thoughts of her being with someone else still hurt an awful lot, and I will say this rebound doesn't feel like the last one. Maybe this will actually last for her who knows I don't know. I'm hoping by the time my birthday rolls around I truly won't give a rat's ass.

[OKrunch]

Although, these words will not leave my head," I cannot and will not reconcile"
 despite having heard several different versions of the same thing over the years.
And the fact that she read my email 33 times. that boggles my mind.

[Turkish]

This thread will remain locked due to excessive length.  If the topic is of interest, see the new thread here:

The forging of The Path