Sleep issues

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Is sleep an issue for anyone else?

What works for you?

I couldn’t get to sleep last night again for several hours.  Three hours later I’m awake again.

My best strategy is focusing on the breath.  This works about half of the time.  Sometimes I use an app. I’m also physically active, but I do wish I had more time to do more.

What wakes me up can be an interaction with my mother, muscular back pain from sleeping, or a noisy sleeping husband next to me.  

Tonight it’s all of the above.  

For the back pain I do yoga, physio and massage.  For years. Despite this, tonight is bad. I sleep with a heating pad to help manage the pain and relax the muscles. Tonight it’s not helping.

For the noisy husband, I generally have a supportive position I move to which allows me to stick a finger in one ear, while the bottom ear is against the pillow.  As I’m drifting off, out comes an enormous snort from H.

Last Evening after supper I called my mom on speaker with H present.  It’s her 87th BDay next weekend, and I asked her what meal she would like.  At the end of the conversation she said “I love you” and I reflexively repeated it back.  This is a topic recently on another thread.  Aacchh!  It’s not genuine.  No one who is loving would say the kinds of hurtful, disrespectful, and cruel things she says in a rage.  But I reflexively said it back because I’ve been trained to keep the peace at all costs.  I know better. I’m just sad and frustrated and tired and hurting .  And I can’t sleep.

What has worked for you when you’ve had sleep issues?

[Methuen]

Is sleep an issue for anyone else?

What works for you?

I couldn’t get to sleep last night again for several hours.  Three hours later I’m awake again.

My best strategy is focusing on the breath.  This works about half of the time.  Sometimes I use an app. I’m also physically active, but I do wish I had more time to do more.

What wakes me up can be an interaction with my mother, muscular back pain from sleeping, or a noisy sleeping husband next to me.  

Tonight it’s all of the above.  

For the back pain I do yoga, physio and massage.  For years. Despite this, tonight is bad. I sleep with a heating pad to help manage the pain and relax the muscles. Tonight it’s not helping.

For the noisy husband, I generally have a supportive position I move to which allows me to stick a finger in one ear, while the bottom ear is against the pillow.  As I’m drifting off, out comes an enormous snort from H.

Last Evening after supper I called my mom on speaker with H present.  It’s her 87th BDay next weekend, and I asked her what meal she would like.  At the end of the conversation she said “I love you” and I reflexively repeated it back.  This is a topic recently on another thread.  Aacchh!  It’s not genuine.  No one who is loving would say the kinds of hurtful, disrespectful, and cruel things she says in a rage.  But I reflexively said it back because I’ve been trained to keep the peace at all costs.  I know better. I’m just sad and frustrated and tired and hurting .  And I can’t sleep.

What has worked for you when you’ve had sleep issues?

[GaGrl]

My sleep challenge is not getting to sleep -- it's waking at 3 AM and not being able to go back to sleep. This has been a life-long pattern.

Usually, a breathing pattern helps me drift off again. I shift positions frequently during the night due to arthritis in my hip -- if it is aching, I find it harder to get back to sleep.

The only period when my sleep problem became so bad that I almost wasn't functioning was when my sister had terminal breast cancer at age 31. I was desperate to sleep. My therapist said I had an "agitated depression" caused by a situation I could not control. He sent me for a consult with a psychiatrist, who prescribed a course of antidepressants, warning me to start them on a Friday and get childcare for my son, because I would sleep alk weekend. That got me through the tough period, and I was able to discontinue the meds after a few months.

[zachira]

You are wondering if anyone else is having sleep issues. I have had sleep issues my whole life. For most of my life, I had terrifying nightmares in which I would dream I was falling, and would wake up just before I hit the ground. After doing EMDR therapy, I no longer had these types of nightmares though I have less terrifying nightmares at times. I still have trouble sleeping especially after I have gone through a recent new abuse experience with my disordered family members. Lately I have had more trouble sleeping after a relative asked me to rent my house to her for the Celebration of Life of another relative (indirectly asking me not to show up for the Celebration of Life in addition to the expectation that I vacate my house and rent my house both at considerable expenses to me that the rental would not come close to covering while having several of the abusers staying at my house.)  I find one of the keys to better sleep is doing everything I can to process ASAP a new abuse by my family members and/or their flying monkeys. It certainly is abuse to hear your mother say she loves you as a means to manipulate you and continue to abuse you. It is like the relative who wanted to rent my house trying to hug me that night. I immediately recoiled and refused to hug her. I could not do anything else even if I had wanted to.That night I slept pretty well. It is only now that I am processing the long term consequences of having to set even stricter boundaries with the family and the flying monkeys. Maybe you will come to a point in which you just can't say I love you back to your mother, that you mind and body will not let you. Perhaps you would be protecting yourself from more trauma if you did not say I love you back to your mother. I too live in the fear of what will happen if I upset my disordered family members and wonder how they will try to get revenge (which they are doing anyway because this is the kind of people that they are). What more could your mother do to you that she hasn't already done if you don't reciprocate her saying I love you? Could you say something that is absolutely true that is not I love you? If so, what would you say? I think the best advice I could give you to sleep better is to do your best to process whatever has happened with your mother that day well before you go to bed. It could be taking a walk, telling somebody like your husband how the recent interaction with your mother is affecting you, meditating, etc., This is sort of like having an agreement with your husband that you will not go to bed angry with each other. Hope you are feeling better and tonight you get some healing rest.

[NarcsEverywhere]

I have sleep issues too, lately, because my dad with NPD can mess with me hard, and it affects me a lot. And I need my time alone, to keep sanity around him. So having good boundaries helps a lot, with that, and either taking time to self care and spend time alone, either by getting up early or getting up late, then I throw a nap in mid day to catch up on any sleep I missed, for staying up late. As for the sound of your husband snoring, you can always wear earplugs to sleep.

Here is what helps me get good, consistent sleep:

Have a good morning routine and evening routine, that are like bookends to your day, so that you have some simple tasks and self care, mental and physical, stretching, reading daily reader on codependency, positive writing, doing dishes, loving kindness meditation, etc. Routine makes your mind know when it's time to get up and when it's time go to sleep, so if your routine is erratic, then your brain won't get it.

Also, it's important not to freak out if you don't sleep, or if you get up early, as that just causes stress around your sleep, that causes it to be hard to sleep, so try your best not to do that. Sometimes I do a minor prayer like "May I fall asleep easily, have sweet dreams, and wake up feeling refreshed" or say goodnight to myself, or whatever. Another thing that helps is to do a body scan meditation, or like, just try to get in touch with how your body feels and feel any scratching or discomfort you need to, so that you can wind down over time. Sometimes I deal with the discomfort and restlessness for a while, and it eventually goes away, and I can relax.

[PinkPanther]

I tend to sleep well in general, but stressors can bring me sleep issues. When I was LC with my mom before NC, I couldn't sleep well. The hurt I was dealing with was difficult and I was waiting for her retaliation since I wasn't giving her her way  My mind tends to pace alot when I have a lot of stress with other people going on.

When I have sleep problems like this, I give myself grace. I find that getting up, having a glass of water helps. I take melatonin during those times and I find it works too.

As for the noisy spouse, I invested in a pair of ear plugs

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hi Methuen,

For me, when I can't sleep, nothing works. So I just started telling myself : "It's okay, because I am still relaxing my body."

I keep breathing, I keep observing my thoughts, I keep imagining waves to calm myself... I basically try to turn the moment I "should be sleeping" into a moment I am meditating.

I still don't sleep, but I am actively relaxing my body... And the next day, I find I am often much less tired than I thought I'd be, and I try to have a nap the next day when I can.

[GaGrl]

One of the negative effects of sleep problems is the inability to get enough REM sleep. If, as many researchers have suggested, REM is where we process what happens in our waking time, then sleep disturbances will interfere in working through those issues that are bothering us or that are hovering close to the surface.

[Tortuga50550]

I also developped insomnia problems years ago, when I was in highschool. I would wake in the middle on the night, and I would have stress episodes for hours. Personally, having a stable sleep schedule helped be a lot to prevent this episodes. Also taking melatonin when I'm particularly stress or anxious.
But when I have them, I tend to get up and go to my small puff sofa and read either books I already know by heart or really boring ones. Or do small meditation exercises. I also try self-compasion exercises, since sometimes I'm angry at myself for not being able to sleep. Maybe if your mother's actions affect you in your sleep, some self-compasion could work for you?
I also keep a medium teddy bear in case nothing works, so I can hugh him.

For the snores, I think a good pair of earplugs should do the job.

Hope you have some good sleep next time!

[Notwendy]

Methuen,

Ask your doctor about a sleep study. There are some kinds you can do at home just to check- they send the equipment to wear at night.

I began having difficulty sleeping around menopause and I assumed that was the reason. I didn't consider sleep apnea as I didn't fit the physical profile - it's more common if someone is very overweight. I  assumed it was hormones or stress. It's more of a problem if I am feeling stressed.

It was a friend who suggested getting a sleep study. So I asked my doctor who asked the screening questions and decided well, why not check just to see, and ordered a sleep study. It showed "mild" and so I got a cpap machine.

Sleep apnea can also happen due to the throat muscles relaxing while we sleep and that is what was happening, and it was just enough to wake me up when sleeping. I have heard it's more common after menopause but maybe it's just more common after a certain age for everyone.

The first several weeks with the new machine were hard, I'll be honest -learning to sleep with something on your face takes time to get used to and I slept worse at first. Insurance only paid for one kind of mask but they aren't that expensive so I bought a couple different ones to try until I found one I liked best and also pillows that are comfortable enough with one. But eventually I noticed I sleep better with it now. My H noticed that I seem to sleep more quietly with it too.

So I am sharing to suggest it because someone did for me-  as I had just assumed it was hormones or stress and didn't even think to ask my doctor about it.

[livednlearned]

What wakes me up can be an interaction with my mother, muscular back pain from sleeping, or a noisy sleeping husband next to me.  

Methuen, have you ever used a white noise machine? I ordered a LectrofanEVO a few months ago and it's been a life-changer as far as H snoring. It's about the size of an alarm clock and you can adjust it for white, brown, pink and champagne noise. Yes, champagne 

If I'm in full on bat ears mode, I'll use mac's silicone ear plugs.

Breathing meditation helps when I'm medium agitated. Next level up is a body scan. If I'm still awake by the time I reach my head, I'll listen to Deep Sleep Guided Meditation by Kenneth Soares on Insight Timer. Something about the frequencies in that particular meditation and the way his voice starts to fade works like a sleeping pill for me.

I just weaned myself off nightly use of melatonin, but I'll use a fast-dissolving version when I'm fully spinning out (seems to be connected to hormones. Never underestimate hormones  ).

I've had a mindfulness practice on and off for decades, usually off when things are going well, then back on when I'm agitated for extended periods. Recently I looked into transcendental meditation, but there were things I didn't like about the organization.

I did some research on why people find TM more helpful to see if I could just adapt it, and discovered a subtle nuance that has helped with my sleep. Mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR) sort of teaches that it's *wrong* for your brain to wander, whereas TM teaches that it's natural for it to do this, and to *effortlessly allow* your brain to return to the mantra. I discovered a version of TM through an app called 1GiantMind (free) that has a short guided course that explains the approach.

I think the *effortlessly allow* makes a big difference for me. If I'm struggling to sleep, I try this method and let my brain do somersaults and gallop around, then effortlessly guide it back to the mantra word they give you.

One of the drivers in my sleep issues is connected to a weird ritual with my BPD brother when we were teens. He would make me come into his room and sleep on the floor with the lights out while he talked. Didn't matter how tired I was, or whether I wanted to or not. I couldn't leave until he was asleep.

I have some rage connected to being kept awake that of course makes it harder to sleep.

With back pain, I discovered my muscle stuff was connected to mild scoliosis. It took some time but I found an excellent physical therapist who has a few adjustments that seem to help keep my back from spasming. He knows I go into spasm more when I'm visiting my family so now I have special "pre-family" stretches I do before meeting 

[Woolspinner2000]

I also have had sleep issues. Long ago before T it was nightmares that would wake me up. Those are much less frequent now since I've worked on my childhood trauma. Menopause has unfortunately let me know that sleep is a big issue for this time of life. The hormone shifts have definitely changed so much of my sleep pattern. Increased stress can also make my sleep to be disturbed, so it's important for me that I try to follow a regular sleep pattern as much as I can.

The things that help me are to try to go to bed close to the same time each night. I have to listen to my body to catch the signs of tiredness coming on. No caffeine after 3 pm, no meals late at night, and shut off the screens at least an hour before bed. I listen to some quiet music and read for about 30 minutes before I turn off the lights. Usually those things are a big help.

I feel for you! It's tough when you don't get enough sleep. I still have nights like that (last night was a good example).

 
Wools

[Mommydoc]

This is a great thread with such wonderful advice.  I have been working hard on sleep.  No problem falling asleep but definitely problems with middle of the night wakening,  sometimes prolonged.  I went off of HRT about 5 months ago, and believe it has gotten worse as a result so did restart LA melatonin.   The thing that helps me the most is exercise, so that my body is craving sleep.  I am also trying to go to bed earlier so if I wake up, I do like Riv3rWOlf and just focus on resting my body and don’t stress about not getting enough sleep.   Sometimes I think I was awake for a long time, and when I check my oura ring in the morning, I was asleep longer than I thought and have a  higher sleep score than expected. I often do guided meditations in the middle of night.   

I am pretty sure restricting my husbands alcohol would do wonders as I always sleep better when he is out to town or hasn’t had wine with dinner!   Might need to try the white noise. 

[GaGrl]

My mom had life-long sleep problems. Her internist told her not to lie in bed and fight it but to get up and do something quiet -- read, crochet, etc. Eventually, she would get sleepy enough to drift off.

[Methuen]

Thanks everyone.  As always, I'm very grateful for the support, suggestions and advice.

Had another massage, see physio tomorrow and ph appt with doc next week.  H had appt with his doc and he's ordered a referral to a sleep clinic to look into sleep apnea. H is also frustrated because his snorting also wakes him up now - multiple times a night.  I will definitely try earplugs.

So NW, your story about apnea resonated with me, as it could explain why my H reports that I too snore sometimes, but he's afraid to wake me to shift me to a different position because he knows I'm such a poor sleeper.  It could also explain why I've woken up choking a few times now.  Good tip. Thanks.  This is another thing I will bring up with doc next week.  Like you, I would not fit the typical profile of someone with sleep apnea.

LNL, I'm going to look into "Deep Sleep Guided Meditation by Kenneth Soares on Insight Timer".  Sounds nice.

With back pain, I discovered my muscle stuff was connected to mild scoliosis. It took some time but I found an excellent physical therapist who has a few adjustments that seem to help keep my back from spasming. He knows I go into spasm more when I'm visiting my family so now I have special "pre-family" stretches I do before meeting

LNL, this is so interesting and helpful.  I too have mild scoliosis (possibly because one leg is longer than the other by a bit), so I will bring this up at my PT appt tomorrow.  I also have had terrible spasms, including my back muscles seizing up temporarily so that I can't breathe.  Then it let's go.  Would you feel comfortable sharing the adjustments your PT does, and which stretches he recommended for your pre-family visits?  I've been doing PT for years, and the pain has lessened at times, but then at other times (like now) it comes back.  I feel like I'm probably missing some piece of the puzzle. I'm wondering if there's a key stretch I'm not doing. I would dearly love to hear what has worked for you in this regard...

Wools, I can relate to the nightmares.  It used to be snakes, but now that I've figured out the snake is the sudden strike of my mother, the snake nightmares have almost stopped.  Every now and then I get a patch of the grisly nightmares.  Grim stuff.  I too have had a sleep routine - since about 2006 when I went through early menopause.  I researched intensely, and to your list I would add sleep in a coolish room, no alcohol in the evening (messes with sleep cycles), no exercise within 2 hours of bedtime, and since I get cold feet (which also wakes me up) I sleep with soft ankle socks on sometimes (mostly winter).  For a while I was also drinking hot milk before bed (increases tryptophan which promotes sleep) but that led to the discovery of being LI.  Such is life.

Everyone else - when everything including the meditation isn't working practicing self compassion, or even getting up briefly could be helpful.  I will admit I'm not very motivated to get up..

Will press on.  Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

[Notwendy]

So NW, your story about apnea resonated with me, as it could explain why my H reports that I too snore sometimes, but he's afraid to wake me to shift me to a different position because he knows I'm such a poor sleeper.  It could also explain why I've woken up choking a few times now.  Good tip. Thanks.  This is another thing I will bring up with doc next week.  Like you, I would not fit the typical profile of someone with sleep apnea.

Yes, my H told me I snored sometimes and I also would wake up sometimes choking. Still, I didn't even think to ask my doctor about it.

I recall asking my doctor after a friend suggested it and she went through the screening questions- do you snore "yes sometimes according to my H", do you fall asleep watching TV- yes I did. It irritated my H as I don't follow the show story line and then he has to catch me up.

Getting used to the machine was not fun, but the CPAP personnel reassured me that it was normal to go through this and to persevere and now, I can see that I sleep better. It's not every night, but better overall.

To manage the initial getting used to it, I got a weighted blanket. We already use a sound machine. I like the weighted blanket. I also used a small dose of melatonin slow release to help get through the getting used to it. I sometimes use it but not all the time.

[livednlearned]

I too have mild scoliosis (possibly because one leg is longer than the other by a bit), so I will bring this up at my PT appt tomorrow.  I also have had terrible spasms, including my back muscles seizing up temporarily so that I can't breathe.  Then it let's go.  Would you feel comfortable sharing the adjustments your PT does, and which stretches he recommended for your pre-family visits?  I've been doing PT for years, and the pain has lessened at times, but then at other times (like now) it comes back.  I feel like I'm probably missing some piece of the puzzle. I'm wondering if there's a key stretch I'm not doing. I would dearly love to hear what has worked for you in this regard...

For acute spasms, my PT does this sort of ... explosive (?).. maneuver on my back. It takes my breath away, is very quick, and I'm usually lying face down in the donut hole. The first time he did it, I felt almost euphoric after. The pain went away, like you might experience with really good pain killers except without the fuzzy head side effect. I didn't know I had scoliosis so learning that explained a lot (like why I can't really do sitting meditation for long). He also encouraged me to put one very thin (like 1/8 inch) insole in the shoes of my shorter leg, like Spenco Rx comfort thin lightweight insoles. Lately, I've been having some back issues and realized I forgot to put an insole in my winter boots that I've been wearing the past 5 months or so. 

The stretches are hard to describe. For one of them, I sit on a stool and push my chest into a wall with my arms raised, trying to keep my lower body as close to the wall as possible. I can tell when things are tight because I can't get as close on the side with scoliosis. If I'm stretched out, I can get almost as close to the wall on both sides.

In another one, I do a similar thing with my arms in an open doorframe, but that one is harder because I'm a bit short to get the most out of it. The latest one is most effective but I have to do it in a mirror. My front leg is sort of bent, back leg is more bent, and my upper body is swiveling backwards with one arm touching the back of one knee and the other reaching backwards as far as I can go. If I do it properly, my whole body heats up  It's not a stretch that feels good, it feels more like work.

The PT I see is one of the best I've ever seen, and he specializes in orthopedic issues. He specializes in scoliosis so you may want to see if there is someone like that in your area, if your PT is more of a generalist.  SD28 is a PT and she told me the best orthopedic PTs tend to be tall (she's short) so they can use their height and strength as leverage.

Most of my spasms seem to happen when I'm emotionally triggered, probably because my muscles are tensing in some kind of fight/flight/freeze. Apparently I express rage using my back muscles 

I hope some of this is helpful  I was so relieved to find a reason for my back pain from someone who also understood the mind-body connection. During one appointment his advice to me was to avoid mean people