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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Back again here 4 years later.Still trying to get agreement. What now?  (Read 939 times)
MikeLondon

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 44


« on: March 15, 2023, 02:26:28 PM »

I just checked in again here. I have not been on the site for 4 years. I am kind of shocked to see my old posts from 2019 back to 2016, it is just the same stuff. I did go back, BPD partner had become ill, her Mother passed away, she attempted suicide and I got right back in there somehow. I had a heart attack in late 2019, after her suicide attempt and sectioning. Wow, what a journey. Have not seen her for about 9 weeks, I went to see my kids in USA, that took at least 10 months of planning, discussing, arguing, being yelled at and prepping her family to know that I was going. All hell broke loose, I have had texts and responded, the family are now fed up with baby sitting, all are scared she might "do something" that "she misses me so much" and really want me back to take care of things. They have had a small taste of how it is to be with her 24/7, I don't think they can handle it and although understanding the pressure and stress I was getting, still would like me back there. She is much more physically ill than before, more incapacitated, not being cynical but she is more disabled when people are with her, other wise she gets on with things. I am still trying the old bargaining game, " i could stay with you for two weeks out of four but want to live on my own the other two" that is being met with the usual accusations of how I left and how ill she is, and how selfish I am and how everybody treats her badly, how she would be better off dead and lots of basic denigration, accusation and abuse. I am relieved to be back on here, my pattern is very clear no matter what she has said, done, or suffers from. I am full of the FOG and don't want to be responsible for what may happen next. There is no clear ending, which I would like or clear path forward. There is nothing that I have not already experienced, said done or thought of in this post. It is a repetition and a marker of what seems to be 11 years of obsessing and hopeless attempts at fixing a situation that I haven't had the courage or wisdom or strength to get out of. I am sort of worried about how her family will react, am certain they will want me back or she will have them call or they will contact me at the next drama. Am wondering about a NC with all of them. I feel I need them all to know that I have done my best and am done with trying for the impossible. I worry that somehow I will be persuaded or lured back. I need help with this. Am sick of the stomach churning worry that goes on when I am with her and when I am away or trying to get or stay away. My last several text and email exchanges with her I have stated clearly what I can do: that is to spend 2 weeks out of each 4 together, if she will stop blaming and maybe try and get some help. I have been more or less saying the same thing for years. Totally not met, just more blame, more demands. Is it time to cut off? The neat or tidy ending or restart is not happening. I posted part of this in the detatching board, but I think I am more likely to qualify in this one. Any help gratefully received.
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ForeverDad
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18071


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2023, 10:16:13 PM »

Totally not met, just more blame, more demands. Is it time to cut off? The neat or tidy ending or restart is not happening.

It hasn't improved over all these years, if anything, it's worse.  As well, your own health has suffered with all the unrelenting stress.

Sometimes I say this:  It is what it is.  Do what you have to do (to rescue your own life and health).

There have been various analogies given over the years.  One is where someone is splashing in the water, "Save Me! I'm drowning!"  You jump in despite the risk to yourself and manage to pull her out to safety.  Then she jumps right back in again and shouts, "Save Me! I'm drowning!"  After how many times do you say, "I can't help you if you won't help yourself and keep putting yourself in bad situations endlessly, this time I'll call emergency services or social services - those who have training and skills to handle this - and let them do what they can."

Here's a member's post which I copied to The Bridge thread.  (If you haven't read The Bridge, then please read it here too.

The Bridge
The Backyard Black Hole
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MikeLondon

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 44


« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2023, 04:48:38 AM »

Thanks FD, I had not seen that before, don't know how. Fits me perfectly of course. I somehow feel I am waiting for the next bit of bad news. The ragged lack of an end is something that really gets to me, it's as if there is no chance of a tidy end or a new beginning. I sort of know that it seems impossible, I keep hoping that something will change and we could be 'adult ' about it, I know that is pretty much impossible and that she is very unwell and in absolute denial about her part in any of this. Oh well, it's back to me and I can't fix this, maybe I could let go of the rope.
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cranmango
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: broken up
Posts: 138



« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2023, 01:53:11 PM »

ML--just wanted to say that I read this and your earlier posts, and my heart goes out to you. It is clear how deeply you care for this person, and to what lengths you have gone to try and help them. It's also clear how 'stuck' you have felt for a long time.

You've likely read this before, but I want to share in case it is helpful: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=145967.0

I often find myself trapped in the endless cycle of being mad at my ex, missing them, loving them, and worrying about them. I am still in periodic contact with my ex. I know that in some ways they have been deeply struggling since our b/u. And I so badly want to be there to 'help' them cope, to reassure them that I'm still here, and tell them that I still love them. And yet, I did that for years while we were together, and here we are. I am coming around to the idea that many of my well-intentioned efforts to help really just enabled some of their worst behaviors--and didn't really 'help' at all in the long-run.

Maybe me taking a giant step back will give them a chance to practice self-soothing, to develop new coping skills (that don't involve me), and to learn from new friendships/relationships. Or maybe years from now my ex will be stuck in the same cycle that they have always been stuck in. I don't know. But I am finding peace in the idea that right now, the most loving thing I can do for my ex is to simply step away.

Our situations are much different. Only you know what will be best for you. Keep getting your thoughts out, I know putting this in words has been helpful for me. Sending support your way.
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bob88
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Posts: 286


« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2023, 02:43:18 PM »

My friend ... madness is doing the same thing over and over again and always getting the same results. I see two things happening ... you keep on until you die, or you break away (no-contact) and after the pain settles (it takes a few months)  you will be amazed at the joy you feel in reclaiming your life.

No contact for me was wonderful ... that sudden lack of stress was wonderful.  I still remember that feeling of 13 years ago ... it was like being on a wonderful vacation.  Even now I treasure every day  I don't have to deal with the crazy.  Sure it cost a bit in the divorce, but as they say ... it was worth every penny.

Bob
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MikeLondon

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 44


« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2023, 05:54:55 AM »

Thanks guys. I feel like a total beginner. Almost like I can't believe how the hell this happened again. I suppose I was looking for agreement for an ending, or a new start. I have the old familiar stomach churning, hoping she will be safe and won't self-harm. I am sure her family will reach out again. How naive is it to want a neat finish? I know from all of these years and advice and the sharing from members on this site that it is all going to be of no use, all my attempts at agreement, permissions and so on have come to nothing. I am relieved and grateful to reconnect here and to get reminded of why I got here in the first place. Am hoping for the best, quietly determined and will attempt to stay clear when the next drama is presented to me. I have been just about paralyzed by all this for the past 11 years. Thanks again and any advice tips or suggestions will be gratefully received.
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ForeverDad
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18071


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2023, 08:18:09 AM »

I suppose I was looking for agreement for an ending, or a new start. I have the old familiar stomach churning, hoping she will be safe and won't self-harm. I am sure her family will reach out again. How naive is it to want a neat finish?

We all have been there, done that.  It's par for the course.  You are seeking Closure.  Collective wisdom advises we don't get closure.  Closure is what we Gift ourselves.

I find myself so often remarking, it is what it is.  Then do what you have to do for your own sanity, health and self care.
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MikeLondon

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 44


« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2023, 06:00:02 PM »

Thanks again all. I do get it that closure is not going to be granted or given by my BPD partner. I was off the air today as I once again received a text about how life for her is terrible and if I loved her or cared I would have come back,along with desperate financial situation and can I help. Also this was followed by total ignoring of my prior messages of what would be ok for me and the whole who is to blame for it all (me) and how could anyone that loved someone be so cruel, this went of for hundreds of words, exactly the same stuff. "If anyone needs help or therapy it's not me, I just need to be loved and held and I was so loyal waiting all these years". So it goes, as sickening as ever. I asked what this was about and suggested that she might look at my earlier email saying exactly what would be needed by me for any form of going forward or continuing. I know, it must be time to cut this off completely. It's always circular and always sickening. I know she is unwell and on all my experience and evidence, saying it louder or differently it's not going to change anything, as I have seen here on the message boards. I am definitely not acting like the sane person here. Thanks guys
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MikeLondon

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
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Posts: 44


« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2023, 05:37:38 PM »

Just received a 'flying monkey' text from BPD partner brother. How could I leave her and destroy her brain, I could have been more up front so that they could have prepared. I am really bothered by this text, it is as if they have taken up her argument and now blame me for all her ills. I don't know whether to respond or just cut off. I am inclined to respond, by phone. They know how she is, but I think they want to make sure that the old caretaker is back and there to relieve them from duty, plus she makes the usual suicide, life is terrible threats and how she loved me so much. What to do next? It's pretty horrible.
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ForeverDad
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18071


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2023, 07:18:11 PM »

I comment on the appearance of this, but leave it to you or others how best for you to proceed.  This feels like a Karpman victim-persecutor-rescuer Drama Triangle where your ex is the victim, you are the persecutor and the rescuer is her family.  It seems the family would prefer you be the rescuer.

Apparently there are no children from this relationship, so parenting is not an issue.  You already know you can't keep standing with one foot in and the other foot out of the relationship.

Once the relationship is firmly over with no hope or expectation left and contact is severed, would this resolve much of this push/pull?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2023, 07:23:53 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

MikeLondon

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Posts: 44


« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2023, 08:17:01 PM »

Thanks FD, I looked at the post and article. OMG how many levels are there to this stuff? I thought I understood some of it,but it seems it is a real rabbit hole. I was really disturbed by the text, it wasn''t menacing, but it was blaming and accusative. I do buy in to this a lot, I always  felt terrible if I felt wrongly accused. I do have a part in this of course, I did not assert myself enough and I did try to avoid conflict, sometimes by approaching from the side rather than head on, trying to keep the family in the loop as much as possible. They were somewhat sympathetic to my situation, while primarily focussed on my partner in terms of care or worry ( rightly so as she is the family member). They quickly changed tack now that they perceive that I am not coming back. I will take a good look at the triangle you directed me to. I suppose trying to go softly has back fired, I feel like a coward and guilty, but I have to be aware that I can easily take this on board. I went along to get along, but cannot keep doing it. I had written a response to his text, I didn't send it and this was before reading your response FD and the article. Your insightful suggestion has already taken some of the fear and anxt from me. So thankful for this site too. I will not seek to justify my position. I do see that they or at least he representing the family are in the rescuer role at the moment. They have often been cast by BPD partner as the villain and persecutors and this is very interchangeable almost daily as she writes about how wicked they all are. So much to this. I am heading for my 70th birthday, feeling like I have always been to old for this. Am re reading stop walking on eggshells. I thought I had a few clues about this, but how quickly my knowledge and actions fell out of synch. Help, am also hopeful. Should I reply? I did note that the triangle thingy suggested getting into the center.   
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MikeLondon

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 44


« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2023, 08:34:50 PM »

I just saw the last paragraph you wrote FD. I don't know if the relationship was fully over if it would resolve push pull. What's more is that I really don't know how to end the relationship. I know this sounds terrible. It is almost what her relatives said, about telling her it was over . I suspect that I have always been afraid that she would harm herself and that I would feel guilty. So it's not like I am trying to be the good guy, I know my part is probably based on weakness and fear to confront the situation or end it. Never been good at endings. I know that it must end, not sure if I have it in me to name it fully just yet. I can't truly say why, apart from what I have already stated, yes there is almost certainly  deep co dependent historical stuff with me, but the knowledge of this doesn't make it any easier to name it as an end with my BPD gf. How to do this, is my dilemma, then having the courage to act on it, another story altogether. It seems like my sloowwwww exit has just not worked at all. Perhaps that is it, I do know that my one foot in and one foot out hasn't worked, will have to name it, when and how is my problem. I have tried the if you do this I will do that approach, never been met at all. I suppose that is a kind of ultimatum, which I don't think is right,or particularly honest on my part. Don't want to blame her. Maybe an it is all too much for me and I need this relationship to be finished would work. I would still be left with the flying monkies and the fear of what she might do. Is that the price of freedom from this horrible situation? The ongoing anxt, I suppose from reading here that it does subside, also the guilt for causing pain.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2023, 08:41:07 PM by MikeLondon » Logged
ForeverDad
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18071


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2023, 11:12:04 PM »

Our remote support is at times somewhat limited.  Have you considered seeking an experienced counselor to aid you in taking practical steps forward?  Some questions and dilemmas to ask:

  • Background overview, including my inability to take control of my life
  • The relationship is unhealthy and dysfunctional
  • The person has distresses and makes claims I can't handle
  • How do I address my "fear of what she might do"?
  • How do I stand up for myself and set appropriate Boundaries with examples for myself?
  • How can I cut all ties once and for all since even peripheral contact ties me up into knots?

Be aware that counselors may take a couple paths, one is how your past influences your way of handling your life now - that is often termed FOO or family of origin - another is how to guide you to practical solutions.

Not all counselors or therapists are equally capable.  I recall in the months before my marriage imploded I did seek counseling but in the three sessions the counselor focused only on my FOO.  Sure, the past was a factor to consider but I just about freaked out because never once in three sessions did she suggest how to handle the conflict and discord then raging nor that an acting-out Personality Disorder could be a prime factor.  She was worse than clueless and totally unhelpful, from my perspective.
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