Neglectful Parent and CYS Strategy

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Has anyone gone down the road of involving Child Youth Services, or the equivalent agency, in dealing with a neglectful BPD parent?  I painted a brief picture of the last six month period to my attorney asking for suggestions.  Things like videos of S15 and S18 riding around in S18s car after mother goes to be (or passes out) while smoking marijuana, photos of S15 smoking marijuana in exuNPDBPDw's house, numerous occasions of S15 being out of the house after mother goes to bed, often times in another county, obstructing or avoiding getting S15 to his therapy appointments, etc, etc.

She has some van Munchausen characteristics and she's lonely (abandoned) as her boyfriend moved out end of the summer. 

This was one of the attorney's suggestions.  But I swear I have read stories of CPS destroying cases and making things worse.

[scraps66]

Has anyone gone down the road of involving Child Youth Services, or the equivalent agency, in dealing with a neglectful BPD parent?  I painted a brief picture of the last six month period to my attorney asking for suggestions.  Things like videos of S15 and S18 riding around in S18s car after mother goes to be (or passes out) while smoking marijuana, photos of S15 smoking marijuana in exuNPDBPDw's house, numerous occasions of S15 being out of the house after mother goes to bed, often times in another county, obstructing or avoiding getting S15 to his therapy appointments, etc, etc.

She has some van Munchausen characteristics and she's lonely (abandoned) as her boyfriend moved out end of the summer. 

This was one of the attorney's suggestions.  But I swear I have read stories of CPS destroying cases and making things worse.

[kells76]

Although we haven't had CYS or CPS involvement, I do understand that sometimes getting outside agencies involved, while a gamble, can be "less bad" than the pwBPD's continual boundary-less behavior and impact on the kids.

I am guessing that CYS would only be interested in your S15, unless there are circumstances making your S18 not legally an adult yet? I think certain US states have different ages of majority, for example.

One thought I'm having is that it may be a stronger "look" for you if you not only have evidence of Mom's total lack of ability to provide structure for the kids, but you ALSO have evidence of you trying to provide structure/discipline. And, if you have evidence of the combination -- you trying to provide structure/discipline AND Mom explicitly making that impossible. Which, if I'm remembering your history, I think you do? I.e., it's not "just" that Mom doesn't take S15 to his therapy appointments... but it's also that you tried to pick him up and take him... AND she obstructed you trying to do that.

Given everything you've been through -- which is a lot -- could you handle the potential "worst case outcome" of CYS involvement? What might that be, and could you live with it? Because if you and your L can think up "OK, XYZ is probably the worst scenario that could happen, given the county/state we're in, and similar cases", and you look at that and are like "Well, it's no worse than what's going on!", then yes, getting CYS involved could be on the table.

Again, my overall thought is that you'll have a stronger position when you can share evidence not only of Mom's neglect, but of (a) your attempts to counter the neglect, AND (b) her obstruction/sabotage.

Hang in there... you've had a long road.

kells76

[scraps66]

Thank you, kells.

My L followed up and suggested I talk to the local PD.  So I sent them an e-mail summary this morning and haven't heard back.

One pretty big wrinkle is the fact that we live a mile apart.  What happened two weeks ago, after an argument with S15, he just fled to his mothers and has been there ever since and I have not talked to him.  In that time I had found him (location sharing) miles from home in a popular park outside the city after 10pm.  This is the second time.  Then I find him coming back, gets dropped off at a local shopping center and walks the rest of the way back to his mother's.  Mom had no idea where he was.  Claimed it was impossible and told me his whereabouts the night before and they just weren't true - I had driven along his route and found him walking after 11pm.  That was last Tuesday.

Then Thursday evening she texts me after 11pm, saying S15 is on his way to your house - she kicked him out.  He never arrived and wound up back at her house.  Also in the same text said she would be filing a PFA against S18.  That never happened either.  Some of this may just be her dramatically painting herself as the victim.  But booting a child out of the house after 11pm, eh, that's not parenting.

Given the close proximity and the habit of fleeing my house, L says going back to court is pointless.  At least to change custody. 

[kells76]

Different states have different laws about minors and drug possession/use. Ours is pretty lax, unfortunately.

If yours is stricter, I wonder if it could be better for your S15 -- long term -- to start experiencing some legal consequences now.

That would depend on how far you want to go. Being Dad and reporting your own son for pot use might dynamite the relationship. There are reasons not to go "all the way" and to preserve what relationship you have. But, like I mentioned before, think through what the worst case scenario might be. Could you handle it? If it's uncomfortable short-term but better for S15 long term, you can start tossing around ideas like -- can you report him for drug possession? Can he be required to enter rehab/treatment? Can you tell Mom that you prioritize S15's health and if she doesn't join you in ending his pot use, then you'll proceed to do XYZ no matter what?

I guess I'm wondering if there's a way to use how bad things are now, as a sort of freedom to do whatever it takes to make things better.

Kind of like -- if S15 is already not respectful of you, not respectful of the rules, leaving when he doesn't get what he wants... would it be that much worse in your relationship if you pushed for rehab/treatment now?

You can follow up with your local PD (if they haven't written back yet) -- maybe they can walk you through typical consequences for minors in possession/use of drugs.

This isn't easy stuff. And like your L says, there might not be a ton that the court system can do with the adults -- they can't make your kids' mom parent effectively. But maybe your L knows some about MIP legal issues in your area. Worth a question.

So, maybe pivoting to focusing on S15's drug use (even though I get it, that there is a bigger, more systemic problem than the kids) could be an alternative way to get some structure into his life, given that focusing on Mom legally might be a dead end.

[ForeverDad]

I'll make reference to recording, then lead into monitoring.

Many have fretted here about the legality of recording, depending on the restrictions of state laws.  Essentially they're intended for professionals, so I often remark that, despite fears, only a very few times did our members get yelled at by judges and it was for recording minor children, not the other parent.  Kids are not to be put in the middle of parental disputes.

That said, you are able to monitor your minor son's location and it could become an issue (but probably not) as well as his other ongoing behaviors.  Just to be cautious, and I'm sure you are, be sure they know it's for your teen's safety and welfare.

Hopefully he will grow out of this pattern but you can't just let him flounder along on his own.  In 2 to 3 years he will be an adult and legally you'll be on the outside looking in.  No on knows whether he will respond but the legal clock for you is ticking.  We hope whatever strategies you and the professionals can attempt will find success.

[scraps66]

I finally talked to the PD.  They can't do anything until there is a criminal violation which is what I'm trying to avoid.  The officer did however think CYS was an option given the circumstances.  Officer also stressed the certain financial burden that comes along with a juvenile court case.

As of today I still have not spoken to S15.  I have talked to mother's ex-boyfriend who confirmed S15 is still lying and making up stories.  BF tried to get him to get back to my house and get back to football practices.  S15 said he was doing these things last week but as I confirmed with coach, he was lying.  S15 had shut the BF out for awhile too, my take is S15 knew he was lying and knew BF could corroborate his lies and avoided accountability by stopping interaction as has become his MO and coping mechanism.

I am certain mother is using "unique" methods of bribery to keep S15 in her good graces. 

Mother has now gone out on her own, say three weeks ago, and announced that she had been in touch with a new therapist.  Gave me the name.  I had an intake with him last week, he explained how "tragic" this situation is for the child/father bond, and said that he was onboard, had some ideas, and had to touch base with mom.  Mother was supposed to have an intake, same guy, along with S15 the previous week.  It never happened. Mother said "S15 never made his appt with new therapist guy."  Hmmm, this was a Zoom call from mother's house.

Yesterday I follow-up with new therapist guy asking if mother had had her appt with him.  I get a call late in the day, the guy is on edge, hesitant, says he's in a "tough" spot here.  I think he was eluding to the fact that I asked about mom's appt and he couldn't answer that question - to me.  It almost seemed as if he was treating mother as if she was the primary parent.  That I was on the wayside.

I ask mother this morning what's going on with the therapist.  She says she's trying to set up an appt for S18 and S15 for next week.

At the same time I went back to L and asked if there was any value in going back to court, even if just to give mom a good talking to - which I said might not even happen and given the fact that S15 would just run back to mom's when unappeased.  She said she did feel there was value in going back, but reiterated the flight risk of S15.

Then there is the CYS alternative which I called about yesterday.  Would need another phone call to brief the situation to decie whetehr this was caseworthy.  I'm still on the fence about this as the aftermath could be catastrophic given ex's penchant for creating chaos when not happy and not controlling the narrative.

Also, S15 did go to a treatment facility in March.  He lasted two weeks, got in a fight and was discharged.  He never engaged in the process.  My take, that may not have been the best option.  It took him at least a week to detox and during that time he was unapproachable.  This was deemed to be the only remaining option since his levels were testing so consistently high for a period of two months.