1.07 | Boundaries and Values
Dobzhansky:
All this above about boundaries is awesome... .BUT:
How does one establish and enforce boundaries with a uBPDw whom one has only just realized is suffering after 30 years of being together? I am not a glutton - only just realized it _wasn't_ "just me".
I see the problem here being her feeling like "Where did this all come from? You have never spoken out against this before?" For the amount of energy that would require it seems almost better to just let the tramplings continue... .
I am a "stander", but only inasmuch as I can do so and remain healthy.
an0ught:
Hi Dobzhansky,
Excerpt
I see the problem here being her feeling like "Where did this all come from? You have never spoken out against this before?" For the amount of energy that would require it seems almost better to just let the tramplings continue... .
The risk you are facing is what I see as the "undecided trap". Confronted with the difficult situation seeking THE solution. THE decision. THE right words. The prospect of a huge change is overwhelming. Better get it right. Analyze more. Get more reassurance. Ponder more. Question yourself more. Argue with fate.
There is no such thing as THE solution. We got into the mess one step at a time. And to get out it takes one step at a time. Avoiding invalidation more often than not. Establishing a rule for ourselves. Trying to validate more. Another rule for ourselves. Validating more and better... .
When you think about the whole project IT IS overwhelming. But avoiding JADE is energy saving - immediate payback. Validation is low energy expense, low risk and usually pays back in the situation. In the long run validation carries interest for you as it gets you a deeper understanding and for the pwBPD as it helps to build self validation capability.
Now boundaries often come with an initial struggle. But once that is past the boundary changes the game and pays back the expended effort over time.
The path is not to play Herkules and carry the world on your shoulders. Far from it. We are all exhausted when we begin this journey. It is only doable when we remain conscious of what changes are in our reach and focus on the changes that improve our life. Changes that are enabling us then to do the next and bigger step. Every step makes us stronger. It all starts with baby steps.
unicorn2014:
Thank you for this thread, I really appreciate all that was said here including the external links. It sounds to me like boundaries are how we create a r/s that we can live with and many times problems occur because we have violated our own boundaries without knowing it.
TricePaige:
this thread has been the most useful thing i have read all day
SaltyDawg:
Setting boundaries when dealing with my pwBPD has probably been the single most important thing I have done to help manage the uncontrolled rage (emotional dysregulation) that the pwBPD in my life has displayed towards me and others.
Prior to setting boundaries, I had almost none, other than following moral standards in compliance with my higher power's belief system, the rules and laws of the land, enforcing rules of the organizations that I belonged to and any kind of physical violence would not be tolerated - outside of that, I had no other boundaries.
Perhaps this is an oversimplification... After thinking about it for two weeks, with my pwBPD I set a single new, but all encompassing boundary of "All abuse must stop!".
My therapist helped me come up with those words by asking me what I wanted in my life with my pwBPD. While it is very easy to assume the position of perpetual 'victim' in the drama triangle, much like the pwBPD does. I didn't see myself as a victim, but more as a survivor of a handful of glaringly obvious abuses; but, when my therapist pointed it out to me likely numbered in the 10's of thousands with much lesser abuses that are more nuanced and not so obvious in nature, and even my pwBPD with a 'moment of clarity' acknowledged it was in the thousands by their distorted standards when this was discussed with them. A previous pwBPD I was involved with was actually criminally charged with at least 57 counts of a variety of forms of abuse a little more than a year after I ended the relationship with that pwBPD, and I perceived less abuse from that pwBPD.
My therapist recommended that I keep it simple and easy to understand. I was also told to keep it 'simple' and not make the new boundary(ies) overly complicated (as they are emotionally immature), and one that I could easily enforce and implement on a regular and consistent basis with little to no thought once it became instinctive to do so. Unless the other person is willing to do as you say (which can be called an 'ultimatum'), which is very unlikely, unless you can have an effective consequence to a violation of your personal boundary.
I thought about it for a week and came up with the idea that everyone could agree on, any form of abuse is not acceptable in society as a whole. A normal (non PD'd) person would not behave this way in any circumstance. A PD'd person, who was at work, or out in society also would not behave this way when dealing with others as the natural consequence for being becoming abusive would be to lose their job with or without a warning, be fined, become incarcerated, lose friends, lose aquaintences, etc.
My contribution to my pwBPD bad behaviors, over time, as my pwBPD would slowly introduce these bad behaviors, I did not recognize them as abusive, and would normalize them in my mind as this is how they behaved most of the time, effectively I was enabling the abuse (bad behaviors) to occur, as I did not have any predefined consequences for their behaviors when they would rage or otherwise become dysregulated with mood swings, paranoia, and disassociation.
Since we cannot change the pwBPD, we have to change what we can do about the situation that we do not like. The ultimate boundary is ending a relationship with 'no contact'. Like everything else, there are shades of gray, I know my pwBPD, did not ask to be this way, and they know something is wrong, and are trying to make things better.
Circling back to my boundary of "All abuse must stop!". What is 'abuse'? Abuse can come in many forms with no clear delineation between abusive and unwanted behaviors. Some of the forms of abuse that our pwBPD/NPD can do to their non's can be:
Verbal abuse including rages (flooding)Psychological or emotional abuseFinancial or material abuseSexual abuse / coercionInstitutional or religious abuse / coercionNeglect or acts of omission (silent treatment, ignoring, stonewalling, etc.)*Physical abuse including domestic violence**Self-abuse - suicide attempts, self-mutilation (cutting), damaging impulsivity, etc.**
Each of these categories, the abuse being enacted is based almost entirely on their feelings 'in the moment' of dysregulation. Some of the time they are aware of doing these abuses; however, in my personal experience with several pwBPD, they seem to be totally unaware that they are doing this - I have had my pwBPD actually scream at me "I am not yelling", when I calmly asked them to stop yelling - what the ????
Each one of these categories have dozens if not hundreds of different variations of that type of abuse. Generally speaking, my primary go-to method of boundary is stay calm, in a cool, calm voice, give them a warning by asking nicely to stop their behavior using "I" statments - example: I would like the _________ to stop. If not heeded, I will again, in a cool, calm voice, tell them "if ________ does not stop, xxxx will happen" [be the consequence]. If still not heeded, I will follow through with xxxx, and I usually add, "we can discuss this again tomorrow morning [however long your pwBPD typically returns to baseline] when 'both' of us are less heated"/stressed/calmer/etc.
** If the abuse is suicide attempt/gesture, or self-harm whether it is genuine or coercive in nature (example: "If you don't do blah, blah, blah, I will kill/hurt myself/hurt you") or physical violence occurs (have a recording device if possible to document the behavior, cell phones are good for this if you don't have anything else especially if you are a male) call 911 or whatever your local emergency service is and let law enforcement sort this out with the local professionals in your country. The therapists in my situation set the boundaries for my pwBPD and me on suicide attempts/gestures, and physical violence for me to call 911.
* When I have used the boundary of "do not J.A.D.E." and walk away as a consequence for their abusive/bad behavior, I've been called abusive by both my pwBPD, and their therapist, as the therapist called it "stonewalling" or other equivalent 'slang' terms. Personally, I can see their point of view where it can be perceived as 'reactive abuse', as I am deliberately withholding my attention and interaction with my pwBPD in order to de-escalate a potentially much more abusive and emotionally explosive situation from my pwBPD. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't type situation; however, this is part of my personal boundary strategy, I will choose what I perceive to be the least damaging option every single time.
How I started implementing boundaries based on "All abuse must stop!"? I made a list of my pwBPD bad behaviors in the past week, and I would prioritize them in the order of most severe to least severe. I would pick only one of these severe behaviors to focus on, as I didn't want to overwhelm my pwBPD by installing too many new boundaries - through trial and error, I found one per week was a good cadence for my pwBPD. When my pwBPD was baseline, I would share this boundary when the opportunity arose, this in effect 'planted the seed' of what to expect, so when it happened, there would be a smaller chance for an extinction burst. The first one I personally set was regarding my pwBPD's yelling rages only a few inches from my face for hours on end.
When first starting to implement boundaries, you are more than likely to experience an 'extinction burst', I did about two weeks in.
Using an analogy, when a child is becoming overweight, who is used to getting candy whenever they became upset, and you let them have candy to get them to be quiet - to soothe them. All of a sudden you tell them no more candy when they get upset (as you are concerned about their weight). Since they are used to taking candy, they take it anyways, you grab the candy, and the candy bowl away from them. First time or two they are shocked and hope you will change your mind about the candy; however, after a few days, and still no candy, they are seeing you are not changing your mind, they are going to throw a temper tantrum in order to get more candy anyways, and get louder and louder until you give in (like you did in the past). This is an extinction burst, when they realize they are no longer getting what they want.
When you are at the 'extinction burst' stage, if you 'give in' at this point, it will do much more damage than good, as like the small child, they will learn that bad behavior gets them rewarded with candy (or whatever they are used to doing). If there is no candy forthcoming, eventually they will tire, and try some other behavior to get candy. In essence by setting a firm boundary, you are no longer rewarding bad behaviors, but invalidating bad ones.
Since this topic also deals with 'values'. If you see a good behavior that you value in your pwBPD, let them know with validation along the lines "I really like when there is no yelling, I really appreciate [value] when we can do this together." I do this to validate good behaviors. Just be careful to avoid triggering terms, as I learned the hard way by saying "good girl" - at the time I didn't know it was a trigger, but it was for one of my pwBPD. I feel that by expressing and communicating behaviors that you like will only improve desired behaviors of your pwBPD in addition to the boundaries as a deterrent on bad behaviors that I personally find are outside of my own individual value system.
I also feel that boundaries should be reasonable, based on societal standards as everyone can agree abusive behavior should not be tolerated. I also believe that boundaries themselves can become abusive, especially when it becomes coercive to elicit behaviors that cross the lines of personal values as boundaries are a form of behavioural manipulation - it can either be used in a good way, or it can also be used in a coercive bad way that they have done with us. Examples: "If you don't do as I say, I will not have sex with you" OR "If you don't have sex with me, I will rage at you" depending on your own personal values if this explicit or implicit. These I think are perceived boundaries for the pwBPD; however, they are conditional on the other person's behaviors, so their effectiveness cannot be guaranteed unless the victim complies with the perpetrator's coercive ultimatums in the drama triangle.
The "All abuse must stop!" The boundary seems to be working for my pwBPD as her violence and abuse have been greatly reduced to a manageable level, however, they're still improving. My pwBPD is partially self-aware that she has issues in anger management, and other areas too and is actively working with her own therapist on this.
I am very much interested in what boundaries you have put into place for your pwBPD?
I am also curious as to which abuses each of you have experienced from your pwBPD, and how you have been able to stop them, effectively rescuing yourself from an unmanageable situation to a manageable one through the use of boundaries?
I have personally experienced one or more abuses in each of the aforementioned categories, most are high single digit in number, except verbal, psychological, emotional, financial, and neglecting my individual needs which numbers are much, much greater by several orders of magnitude.
If you haven't started with boundaries, and you have a specific question, I invite you to ask, and if I have experienced an issue, I will share what has worked in my scenario which you may or may not be able to apply to your own situation.
Take care.
SD
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