I have hospitalized my husband twice

[Natasha Tomicic]

For those that have gone 'postal' on their mates... please let me not be the only one

What drove you to that point?

What triggered that response/ reaction/ rage in you?

*cough*

Confession time.

1. I have hospitalized my husband twice. First time he had punched me...I ran him over with his jeep...it was not by purpose. He threw himself on the hood and would not get off...and I refused to stop...I was bleeding like a stuck pig. Two weeks in  ICU with brain hemorrhage for my H.

2. Moving his things from his native country to our adoptive country. He woke up in a foul mood, swore at me. Then punched me. I ran to the kitchen, I was planning to go for my AM jog...he cornered me in the kitchen, would not let me out...I was scared. I grabbed the knife..big cutting one off the block and told him to Just let me GO,...he punched me..hard. I lost it. I never felt the punch at the time..everything slowed down, time slowed to a syrup, and attacked him with that knife, slashed him across the face and barely missed his eye. Blood flew everywhere, he fell backwards holding his face in his hands with blood streaming and I RAN and RAN and RAN and hid in the forest...

3. Last summer...a stupid argument about the same old crap. He became very nasty and vulgar and I demanded of him ":)o you really think that behavior is normal?" He punched me. Time slowed, grabbed a tissue box first and slammed him with it, then realized all I did was really piss him off more, then grabbed a glass bottle and slammed over the head at the base of the skull...he dropped like a rock...and I RAN and RAN the rest of the night to a friends house. Returned in the AM with the police and ambulance...12 stitches across the back of his neck. I could have killed him.


In those moments, my sins are crystallized. Every detail, motion, fall of the light. ..

I wasn't any better...  :'(

I scare me.

Natasha Tomicic

References: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[LivingWell]

They push you and push you.  You see no way to respond except in kind.  That's when it is time to leave.  Not for days, not necessarily forever, but long enough for him to get treatment and you to see things differently. 

MY stupid BPD sister who couldn't manage her way out of a paper bag and cant take care of herself went to cout to nul the joint dual power of attorney we had to take care of Mother with Alzheimer's.  Just about everyone in our home state knew the court took over and appointed a guardian for these kinds of cases, then legally stole all the money.  Sister listened to a lawyer who was charging big bucks.  We went to court.  Crooked judge appointed lawyer. Sister was in tears.  She waked past me sobbing and I said ":)addy must be rolling over in his grave.  Sister dearsest started hitting me in the  courtroom.

Later she was sitting in the lobby.  I walked by her several times saying things like "Our poor parents worked so hard for the money.  You lost it." ,  "How are you feeling now?"

Never hit anyone.  It really should be a wake up call when we have to resort to their behavior.

[Chili]

Never had a physical altercation with Psycho Man but verbally, yes. I got to the point where I just didn’t care what the effect of my words were because I knew I was leaving.

That said, I did have a couple of run-ins with my first husband. I was much younger and in better physical shape then. LOL He didn’t jump on the hood of my car but tried to stop my leaving once by standing in front of the car, but I hit the accelerator and he moved. Another time, he was coming after me and I was cornered in the kitchen. I grabbed a butcher knife, he grabbed a bat. His was bigger. He swung, I ducked and ran out the door with the knife in my hand. Had he been sober, I probably wouldn’t have fared so well.

I see a huge difference in our reactions and their actions. Most of us do things in defense of ourselves. We react to situations they put us in, whether it be physical or verbal. While it may not be “right” to behave this way, most of the time we go into “fight or flight” mode. From what I have seen since coming here, we usually learn about ourselves and how to avoid these situations once we learn about BPD and focus on ourselves.

Don’t beat yourself up about this. Believe me, had PM done the things you described, I’d have fought back too.

Chili

[rswwd]

I say, if he didn't learn the first time he hit and and got run over, the rest is his own darn fault!  Kinda like the saying: What do you tell a guy with 2 black eyes?  Nothing.  He's already been told twice and still didn't listen.

I got drug into shouting matches, and pulled into the gutter more times than I like to admit, but had I ever got physical I would probably still be in jail.

[Natasha Tomicic]

I'm guessing...you don't have much of a relationship with your sis...?

My sis can't function on her own. Lives with the folks...driving them nutz.

She works...but can't string two thoughts together. Eerie.


I am very happy that I am on the opposite side of the planet...

My metamorphosis...I don't trust around her.  

They push you and push you.  You see no way to respond except in kind.  That's when it is time to leave.  Not for days, not necessarily forever, but long enough for him to get treatment and you to see things differently.

Very true...some things just continue to haunt the dark recesses of my mind. Like having gone over the edge...you're never the same. I don't know...it's the trigger...reason leaves the consciousness...automatic pilot...scares the hell out of me. I am NOT a violent person, but I AM.

I wasn't...at any rate...but now...I am not so sure...that terrifies me.

While it may not be “right” to behave this way, most of the time we go into “fight or flight” mode. F

You know...I KNOW it's not RIGHT...but in that moment...NOTHING MATTERS...I used to run,...but I got so sick of being the one to RUN like a chicken and shake like a beaten puppy...the chaos of the aftermath...now...I Explode INTO it...the chaos and the aftermath...same...but without the terror. In those moments...every thing SLOWS DOWN...it positively creeps by in tiny increments to leave a permanent imprint in my memory. And I hate me in those moments when I look back at that me.

Who the hell is SHE? Where did SHE come from? I know SHE is ME...but SHE ...*cringe* has no moral/ ethical / legal boundaries. None.

I’d have fought back too.

Thank you Chili  xoxox

I say, if he didn't learn the first time he hit and and got run over, the rest is his own darn fault!

Thanks rswwd...that's what people do tell me...I know it and I own it..but the guilt is another beast. Behind that  animal something else evolved...and I don't know sometimes where and what how to let it go.

Trying to work through this...not getting anywhere with it...just that SHE is there...and I wish I knew how to put her out my psyche.

No...really I am not nutz. Trying to work out that SPLIT in me. Where did the primal one come from? How do I get rid of her? Do I want to? ...SHE saved me...darn it. I owe HER...but she is me and I am not so sure about my own reactions at times...and that freaks me out . I was NEVER like that before. Never.

Help.

When your partner was blasting at you, verbally/ emotional abuse...not only physical crap.

Did you cry?

Did you eventually stop crying?

I can't cry, still not. For animals that die..or abandoned creatures in pain..and I can't save them..I cry...feel angry...sad.

But when my H starts on me...I can't cry.

Where does the hurt go?

Why the heck am I thinking about this stuff anyways?

[rswwd]

Trying to work through this...not getting anywhere with it...just that SHE is there...and I wish I knew how to put her out my psyche.

No...really I am not nutz. Trying to work out that SPLIT in me. Where did the primal one come from? How do I get rid of her? Do I want to? ...SHE saved me...darn it. I owe HER...but she is me and I am not so sure about my own reactions at times...and that freaks me out . I was NEVER like that before. Never.

That's adrenaline.  Fight or flight.  When you can't get away, fighting is the option.  Sometimes that is the proper reaction.  I think it's good to know that SHE is there to help protect you!  Sounds like to me that SHE only comes out in the proper situation.

  

[Chili]

Natasha,

I would like to suggest you pick up a book called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker. Your local library may have it. I had problems with how I dealt in certain situations. AFter reading this book, things kind of fell into place for me.

SHE is a part of you but not someone who has to take over. We all have this inside ourselves, hon. If you were telling me you did these things unprevoked, that would be a whole other matter. But that part of us that takes over in scary, dangerous or emergency situations is there for a reason. Think about the stories we hear of people who lift up cars when someone they love is underneath. Or about the times someone evades danger because of instinct. It's the same thing.

I know it may feel negative, but it isn't. You did what you did to survive.

 xoxox

[LivingWell]

You should be scared, not because you have the ability to fight, but because you stay in a place where you may need to use it again.  As you say it changes you.  You cannot put it away if you may have to use it again.  Anger and guilt are two feelings which will eat away your heart soul and personality.

Sister dearest also stalked me and tried to entrap me in something.  I had to stay in contact with my sister for Ten Years while my mother was still alive with Alzheimer's.  I'm intimately familiar with guilt, hate and anger.  I don't know how you get over it when you are in the situation.  Mother died 11 months ago.  I recently finished the majority of the paper work.  Being the one who had to do the paper work made me angry too.  I'm decompressing now.  It feels good not to have to watch my own back.  The person in me that wants to dance and spit on my sisters grave is receeding. 

You are obviously not a bad person.  You area person who desperately needs a better environment.

[How do I do This?]

"What drove you to that point?

What triggered that response/ reaction/ rage in you?"

One time when I was very tired- after moving a whole giant UHaul of everything we own by myself from our rent house to the house we bought where we live now- I lost it.

My uBPDW was making one unsupportive negative comment after another. I was putting our bed together. I have had acid reflux in the past and manage it by putting a 2.5 inch block of wood under the head of the bed. So, I was putting these blocks down and she started yelling about how she was not going to have it that way and started taking them out after I put them there- two or three times. I freaked in a panic and physically picked her up and carried her out of the room- shut the door and attempted to put the blocks back. She was screaming- 7 months pregnant- I was mortified by my behavior and took a time out.- I went outside and called both of our family members to come over and be there with us to help and be supportive so we didn't kill each other. The next day, her father came to the house while I was at work- and somehow got her to chill out about the blocks- he made some other ones and put them under the bed- the same height and everything. This has been the only time when I felt I could have really hurt her- that I could have hit her. And, I wanted to hit her and chose not to. I somehow did not go there. Since then, there have been times when she has kicked and hit me- scratched and slapped me- and I just covered my face and blocked her punches. BUT, these times were before I learned how to Validate her feelings. If I do not Validate, and choose rather to argue and push her buttons, she escalates. Times when I have chosen to argue have been when she belittles my family members or insinuates that I am a flwaed genetic product of my genetically flawed parents- or poor upbringing.- My family are successful, loving, and very well thought of in their community- personally and professionally. I though, now choose to not take these attacks personally - and choose to Validate- to accept her mental illness and to care for myself.- and set boundaries. I am new to this forum and have a lot to learn.

[Natasha Tomicic]

  Thank you. Rswwd, Living well, Chili  How do I do this?


Means a lot to know it/SHE can be understood.

Sometimes though...it bubbles up to the forefront of the mind and rests in front of my eyes.

'You're the same bad as me."<--My H's words. 

Uses it to justify his actions. He can never own it to my face...that he got physical before I reacted in kind. GRrrrrrrrrr...then he tries to pick apart the chain of events...and you guessed it.. It's MY fault! *sigh*

It's the whole BPD black hole of Ill-logic that defines his reasoning. Drives me bonkers.

How do I do this?:

So, I was putting these blocks down and she started yelling about how she was not going to have it that way and started taking them out after I put them there- two or three times. I freaked in a panic and physically picked her up and carried her out of the room- shut the door and attempted to put the blocks back.

I can really understand...sometimes...it's ENOUGH!  So far, for me, the tools I am learning on the board have made a huge difference. I wish you the best of luck with them. You know, before this Christmas I found this board and devoured the information...and while my H was here would sneak a peak when I had a moment at work..to REMIND myself...and it made such a HUGE difference. He doesn't know I come here. Heaven forbid.   

Learning about how a BPD views him/herself...can be so tragic. Read the BPD support forums...and even joined one...but I couldn't read too much of it...it's draining. There is a post somewhere here written by Skip...that nailed me. Made me feel so bad for my H. Our natural reactions/ responses to their windups and episodes...really HURT them...and we don't even have a CLUE.

I am learning...

[Bananahead289]

I ended up in a struggle with my UBPD (now Ex) right before I finally made him leave. He was leaving the house and grabbed a bag and started emptying all the food from the refrigerator into the bag - I hardly had any food or money at that point and we ended up into a minor shoving match, but because of his skin and the strap on the bag, he ended up with a big bruise on his upper arm which I saw later. He luckily didn't make the connection but I felt awful and kept thinking if the cops saw this, I would be arrested for domestic violence, even though I didn't make the mark. But at that time, he was absolutely acting crazy and I honestly think I got crazy in kind.

I think I just snapped at that point - after that, I just thought, this has to end, I cannot keep doing this or else something horrible is going to happen - I'll piss him off and he'll snap and beat the tar out of me.

[Jeffree]

I've never seen the use in hurting someone who I love or who supposedly loves me.

If you abuse me, I'm gone. Period! I don't have to stay and take it, so I know I am free to leave. I will live on. That's why it never escalated to such a point for me.

Yeah, I've gotten pissed. I yelled at my ex three times in the 10 years we were together. Once when she kicked in a kitchen cabinet, once when she threw our cat for scratching our new leather furniture, and once when she slammed a door so hard that she send a iron clothes hanger through the wall plaster.

The basic sentiment I shouted was, "What the F is wrong with you?"

But note, none of those things were directed AT me.

And when she up and left...yeah, it hurt like friggin' hell, I was shocked, crushed, and it was the cruelest thing I could imagine someone doing to a spouse, but I didn't strike her, didn't push her, didn't even touch her. I sat there, listened to her insane venom, took it like a man, and started packing up my stuff the next day, because I couldn't be with someone who thought that way about me after all we had been through. And I don't regret a single minute of the way I handled it.

However, I still wish that nothing good ever befalls her and I will relish in any of her misery should I ever hear of any.

--J

[Skip]

3. Last summer...a stupid argument about the same old crap. He became very nasty and vulgar and I demanded of him ":)o you really think that behavior is normal?" He punched me. Time slowed, grabbed a tissue box first and slammed him with it, then realized all I did was really piss him off more, then grabbed a glass bottle and slammed over the head at the base of the skull...he dropped like a rock...and I RAN and RAN the rest of the night to a friends house. Returned in the AM with the police and ambulance...12 stitches across the back of his neck. I could have killed him.

Natasha, sweetie, this is a lot more serious than going "postal". Any of these events could have resulted in death for one of you and extended prison time for the other.

What was the argument? How to get started? How did escalate? What is the whole story?  Is it mostly him?  Or are you a part of it?

How would he describ the incident in terms of who started it, who escalated it? Who is responsible?

I know these are painful questions, but the most important thing is to understand these violent interactions in their entirety - not just the last physical exchanges.  There were likely many exchanges between you that were just as dangerous, but did not escalate as far as the three you mentioned (but could have).

Most likely you both need to submit to some outside source for help... this is beyond self help.  One way or another, you (both) have to extinguish the flames that cause this.

If there is ever a boundary that is universal it relates to physical violence...

Skippy

[MaybeSo]

I went postal on my bf once...we had a 3-4 month period where I kept discovering lies.  No one lie or incident if it stood alone would have made me freak (angry yes, but not postal)...but during at this period during our first year when I was 'new' to his way of being...it was like I was being systematically tested to see what crap I would and would not put up with. I had started putting up boundaries/limits and started being very clear...and yet...systematically over a 3-4 month period I stumbled upon one lie or boundary violation after another until I finally just flipped out.

1. We had gone through a disagreement (big shock) and I told him if his feelings had changed for me, then I would like him to NOT spend the night and allow me some time alone. He said his feelings had not changed, he very much loved me, and that he should spend the night. He then made love to me and told me I'm safe w/ him while he gazed into my eyes.  Five minutes after he was done making love to me, he announced he did not know if he still loved me or if he had ever loved me.  When I asked why he had not been honest and admitted that BEFORE having sex with me...he said he forgot.

2. He told me he was w/ his kids all night, in the morning...I found out he was drinkng all night w/ and ex gf.

3. He was spending a lot of time consoling an attractive gal in town over problems w/ her bf. I told him I was getting uncomfortable with this and the other assorted females he seems entangled with. He said this woman was only a freind, he was not attracted to her becasue she was older than him. That was a lie; Two weeks later he had to admit that he pursued this woman romantically a year earlier...so much so her bf had gotten wind of it and had become quite upset about it.

4. I told him I did not want to meet a woman who had approached him to join her orgy organization and 'swing' with her and her husband. He said I would never meet them and that he does not see them anymore. Two -three weeks later he put me in  a position w/ out my knowledge where I not only was introduced to this woman but I had to watch the two of them flirt and behave provocatively for 5 hours...the woman was touching  my face and commenting on how I'm a better match than the last gf he brought in.

5. During all of this, he was artfully suggesting that my growing issues with 'trust' stem entirely from the fact that my father left us for another woman when I was five years old.

In between all of these boudnary violations and mixed messages I was being seduced and pursuaded and given all sorts of rational explanations for each event; I was begining to feel completely confused and unglued.

When I found out about #4...that the woman I had met was the orgy woman...it was on New Years Eve...all of this had been building up, I had kept setting limits and finding they had been systematically ignored or blatantly violated...and with this final revelation... I finally just went postal on him.  It was the culmination of 3-4 months were I had felt systematcially mind f*** and manipulated.  I have never been this angry and hurt with another person before in my life. He was going to just crawl into bed and go to sleep...I demanded he drive me home immediately and I threw my purse across the room toward where he was in bed...I threw a bottle of wine (half empty)aganst the wall and a pair of boots across the room.  I was raging at him...sayng things like "what the f is wrong with you...don't you have any character? Don't you have any integrity? It was awful...awful...I was so pissed off...I felt so creeped-out and violated that he had forced a meeting with this woman who had tried to get him to join her orgy organization...a part of me felt like he forced a meeting in the hopes that I would warm up to her and like her as a person and eventually consider doing a threesome with her...I was just so creeped-out...I really freaked.  I felt so ashamed later but I really just felt like I had a fricken nervous breakdown.  I had never met anyone like him or had anyone do the things he did...I felt...psycholgically raped.  He did NOTHING to try to sooth me, did not try to apologize or even explain or try to comfort me AT ALL...he just turned his back on me and eventually raged back at me.  It was nauseating.

[Natasha Tomicic]

Skip.

It's a loong story...

How would he describ the incident in terms of who started it, who escalated it? Who is responsible?

H had prepared a lovely romantic evening. He cooked, candles on the table...and had a few beers before I got home.

Nice conversation...which the beers had lubed...and he continued drinking...and I had a couple glasses of wine.

* BAD COMBINATION *

H went into the dark past...and I have and HE has Agreed...it was OFF limits...but of course...NOW he doesn't want to remember that. Several nasty comments denying what he had written to me...so I said...FINE, I'll PROVE IT...went to the PC...was searching old emails. He came upstairs and was mocking me and dancing around like an Ahole making vulgar comments. I asked ":)o you really thank that behavior is Normal?"...he punched me.

Previously...I had stated. "I have had too much to drink...we can talk about this TOMORROW...well...tomorrow never really came per se...

That was BEFORE learning about the tools on the board...and my part in this. I DID throw a lot of gas on the fire[ defending/ explaining./ not listening to nor validating any of his emotions/ not takinga  TIME OUT]...but that time his punch came right out of left field...never even saw the build up...the usual idiocy and Nancy pants asinine behavior was all there...but the physical release of it...? NO. 100% by surprise. That's when reality stood back outside of my perceptions and SHE took over.

" YOU'RE GOING TO F*&(*ING PAY FOR THAT!"

Not a thought other than...^^^^

I demanded he drive me home immediately and I threw my purse across the room toward where he was in bed...I threw a bottle of wine (half empty)aganst the wall and a pair of boots across the room.  I was raging at him...sayng things like "what the f is wrong with you...don't you have any character? Don't you have any integrity? IIt was awful...awful...I was so pissed off...I felt so creeped-out and violated that he had forced a meeting with this woman who had tried to get him to join her orgy organization...a part of me felt like he forced a meeting in the hopes that I would warm up to her and like her as a person and eventually consider doing a threesome with her...I was just so creeped-out...I really freaked.  I felt so ashamed later but I really just felt like I had a fricken nervous breakdown.  I had never met anyone like him or had anyone do the things he did...I felt...psycholgically raped.

I'll bet sometimes...when you just THINK about it...it gets you riled up inside.

I would certainly not have done any different...

[Manon46]

Oh Natasha, my heart goes out for you.

It must hurt you through your bones, and why why why do we stay...

Even worse why do we become the same, try to get out it will destroy you one way or the other..

Please  xoxox

[nick212]

lets see...

when i wanted to leave my ex's house, she threw my keys, and they cut me on  my face, and i started to chase her, and she started hitting me on these stairs down to her basement, and I almost fell, and she started hitting me in the head, I chased and held her down  till she stopped.

When I wanted to break up, she went ballistic in bed . and started beating the crap out of me, I had bruises, and she cried afterwards.

I knew a way to get to her was to rip pictures of us up, so I went and grabbed a picture of us in a frame, and she came and grabbed it, I wouldn't let go, and it broke in half, she got cut, but It was all my fault of course, I cut her!

Or the time I wanted to leave, and she pushed me into the wall, and I thought I broke my wrist.

[Mousse]

I've been to the depths of DV, though I know it can go lower.  I can only imagine how I would have lost it if my ex had ever punched me, and I saw it coming as he tried once but couldn't quite bring himself to do it.  

Natasha, where does this end?   Yes, changing your role in the dance, as we say, can help calm the fire.  But at what point have two people inflicted so much physical and emotional damage on each other that validation and acceptance won't bring you back to humanity?  I don't have an answer to that question.  I know on the Staying board, peacebaby and her SO are finding their way back, but her SO is in therapy.  What is your H doing to end this?  You didn't start the violence in this relationship, by your account.  You alone can't end it except by ending the relationship.

Stay safe, Natasha, and be wise.  No marriage is worth loss of life or freedom at the hands of one's spouse.

[MathCoreChick]

let's see.

let me preface this by putting this out there first.  NO ONE lays hands on me.  NO ONE.

EX didn't believe me about this.  I am usually pretty laid back but again if it comes down to it and my person is threatened, it's on. 

He tested the waters several times.

The first time he tried to restrain me from leaving MY apartment.  He put his arm over my mouth to shut me up and i bit him.  then he threw me down and left.  that was after we had been together about a year and a half, when things really started popping off.

Our DV when i almost got arrested was about 6 months later.  we were at some family party and he was drunk off his ass and trying to teach a 14 year old to do a kegstand.  i told him i was leaving because i didnt want to be there when the cops came.  he pushed me into a tent pole AND knocked off my glasses.  i swung and landed a right hook right to the jaw, big man goes down, mcc runs he follows and gets into my car and beats the hell out of me-- i still ask why i didnt lock the door.  this time i filed and i almost went to jail too because i admitted to hitting him.  he got probation and went to anger management classes with a bunch of other dudes who still bragged about hitting their s/o's or wives.  his probation officer was a good ole boy too which didnt help either because he fed right into  the ex's shtick that it wasn't him it was ME.

cops had came other times when we started poppin off but nothing ever came out of it but you think those two things above would of been enough but no, i loved him and stuck around for some even more insidious mental abuse.  sometimes he would try to goad me into hitting him but i was able to keep control and he would just punch a wall or something or slam stuff around.  it would of been easier if he would of hit me again because i told him that would be IT.  he just found new ways to demean and demoralize me as well as to keep himself out of the pokey.

[Natasha Tomicic]

What is your H doing to end this?  You didn't start the violence in this relationship, by your account.  You alone can't end it except by ending the relationship.

He IS working at it. When dysregulated...I really have to watch my step though...I definitely have NOT helped the situation in the past.

I have, as many others here, often wondered if it is not me that is BPD...I tend to react to my H. Others can say whatever they want...and *meh*...no worries...but from my H...my hackles go straight up. We are both sitting there like porcupines.

In every little aspect of life, my H has my back. I have his [ he doesn't believe that..*shrugs*] However...emotionally...we are like two wounded animals, blaming the other for the gaping wounds in ourselves.

My H is everything I could ever ask for in a life partner...except for the violence.

He never hit his ex wife..and to this day they speak together , we vacation together...she is a very calm person...I am not so. 

H and I are too much alike...I guess. I can only work on me. I can't change him and in truth don't want to, I ask that he OWN his actions. <---but those are always blamed on me.   

I am not so innocent...my mouth can get me into trouble too. Not with being vulgar or something like that..I just tend to say what is on my mind without filtering it. I have learned to cut back on that.

When there is an argument...I am a machine gun..have been told so by others. It's not very nice to be gunned down verbally. I have lots to UNlearn as well.

Since therapy...and learning about BPD...there has been a huge change...it's NOT easy for me. I do accept my H as he IS...but I really am not willing at all to accept the violence. The emotional blackmail on his part only comes up when he is in a "fit"...I play the same dirty...verbal diarrhea...I can dish it out too.

Taking care of MY part...has made a difference...only time will tell.

My two best friends here, they have known my H almost as long as they have known me. They also don't understand WHY he goes berserk...but they still know ...he IS a good man. He has a problem...doesn't take away from the inherent beauty of this man.

[LivingWell]

I recognize your symptoms and know them well.  You may have what Dr. LivingWell named "non-person syndrome". Dr. LivingWell diagnosed me first!

Many nons were raised in a home with BPD's or other 'difficult' people.  Everything the BPD's said or did was wrong.  The crazies were making the rules and demanding all the attention.  As a non I learned to shut up and stay out of the line of fire. I was a non person.

We non-people may have grown up and become smart, effective and confident.  We may get praised for our brains and good works.  Yet at the core of our self-confidence is the soft non-person.

You and I grew up to value truth and speaking the truth.  We want to get to the core of truth.  We want to speak the truth.  We want to say what we think.  If we can't do that with our loved ones we become non-people.  Our BPD loved ones know how to find and hurt the soft core better than anyone.  After the BPD has stomped on my confidence and I can't say what I'm thinking, I'm a non-person.   I don't exist in this world. Boom! I'm going to say what is on my mind (not a good idea) or I'm going to walk away (I am crushed).

Personally, I cannot imagine a person who had my back in all situations; Except when we were together he could hurt me to the core and I couldn't respond with what was on my mind.  It  would destroy me. 

Is this what happens to you?  Don't know.  Is there some way to "fix" you?   Don't know.  Are you BPD?  Don't think so.  But when BPD gets to your core and escalates the drama you are not going to be denied the opportunity to say you piece.  I understand.  Been there.  Know the problem.  Not the answer.

[Mousse]

I'm glad he's in therapy.  Good luck to you both in coming out of the dark side.  xoxox

[Natasha Tomicic]

  you write great bait Living Well... xoxox

My H uBPD...to READ what I have written here?



HE double hockey sticks...NO.

Crazies made the rules...but they didn't count on having the rules...'bent'...

Ran head first into enough FIRE...to know I have had enough...not going to pour any Fuel INTO it...if you know what I mean.

Not worth the chance.

Thank you all for being here.

Doesn't mean I can't READ tho now does it...? 

[Natasha Tomicic]

 <--- just so darn *cute*

weeeeeeez BACK!

And how things have Changed!

Owe that to bpdfamily.com and the wonderful people here. Plain and simple.

Without YOU , there would not have been a hope in the brimstone regions.

You will never know...how much I have appreciated you all for being here.

The kindness, PATIENCE, wisdom and tolerance for this very  my-issuesridden Anger disordered  person herself...I feel like a real crud for having been so...*argh*, hostile and blind to the purpose.


Thank you.  xoxo

[atwittsend]

Holy crap natasha...

side note "What do you tell a guy with 2 black eyes?  Nothing.  He's already been told twice" women tell this joke too?  awesome haha.

I lost it on two occasions.  never in response to her hitting me though.  I lost it verbally over the phone a few weeks back.  I had a realization.  I thought I am never going to stay away from her no matter what she does to me.  so I got drunk as hell and I said all the sht she always says to me.  I told her I cheated on her.  Then i told her I didnt.  then i criticized her for not being able to understand what I was trying to say.  Then I paraded all of her infidelities throughout our relationship in front of her.  I told her she disgusted me and she was a whore.  then i dared her to come kill me like she had threatened.  she said she was right down the street.  I told her I could find her first.  we didnt talk for two days.  she cheated on me again the second day.  day three she told me she was going to prove she was the best woman ever and she was going to be my wife.  it was garbage.  

the physical one I have told in here before.  same stuff different day.  i tried to leave.  she wouldnt let me.  i threw her out of my car into the grass.  she claimed she was hurt.  I almost was arrested    

[atwittsend]

"I felt...psychologically raped."

I said this to the cop who responded and he laughed at me.  If I wasnt handcuffed I would have attacked him too.  I had just been held hostage by my gf.  told graphic detail about an affair.  I was intoxicated.  the neighbor tried to be a tough guy and fight me.  and now the only people who could help me were laughing at me.  while she was hammered and flirting with them right in front of me.  supposedly injured but laughing at me too. 

[Natasha Tomicic]

  and now the only people who could help me were laughing at me.

xoxox

Your pain was/ is very real. Drinking doesn't solve the problem mate. will not preach here

Two wrongs don't make a Right. Never have...and all the justifications in between...never will.

We always have a choice. even sometimes fighting back is THE best choice...it's a  choice , it just depends in how you fight

Ultimately, the only way to "win" is NOT to play.

"What do you tell a guy with 2 black eyes?  Nothing.  He's already been told twice" women tell this joke too?  awesome haha.

...hadn't heard that one. Thanks!

[WantMeBack]

I lost my temper more in the 3.5 years with my ex than I have in my entire life.  The last time I absolutely went berserk.  It was really bad.  I cussed, name-called, phoned, texted, emailed, and just raged. 

I make no excuses.  Any time I lost my cool I could have walked away.  I did many times in fact.  I bit my tongue many times and let her berate me and so on.  I am horrified at my behavior and I make no excuses.  I am not afraid to own it even though it hurts.

I could say "she pushed me, pecked at me, and it built up over time."  While that is all true I ALWAYS had the option of getting the hell out of there.  I hope to never EVER allow myself to even get close to acting that way again.  I will have to remove myself from any situation that brings about those feelings in me. 

I hope that I am never faced with having to make that choice again.  I think I've learned enough to see the writing on the wall and get the hell out LONG before it excalates to the point of losing my temper.

She brought out the worst in me but I LET her and I signed up for more every time I went back.

Ugh.

WMB

[eeyore]

Natasha,

What is your current status?  

e

[Natasha Tomicic]

I could say "she pushed me, pecked at me, and it built up over time."  While that is all true I ALWAYS had the option of getting the hell out of there.  I hope to never EVER allow myself to even get close to acting that way again. I will have to remove myself from any situation that brings about those feelings in me.

Exactly.

Do NOT Engage! Rather...warm up thrusters to blast the heck out of there!

They will implode on their own.

What is your current status? 

Infinitely better. In so many ways. However, my H is NOT here 24/7/365...I have an unfair advantage.

I get Months of uninterrupted ME time. I cherish that time. Before...I looked forward to him leaving...this time as well...but this time, I miss him from the heart. Hard to explain. It was NO cake walk this time around, and he was here 2.5 months, normally only one month...

I love my H dearly...he is hard to live with, and would not want to live without him...if that makes any sense?

Understanding HIM and the way his mind twists and turns...and the black hole...*sigh*

He no longer has the power to affect me in the same way. He can't hurt me with his words. He can't manipulate me any longer. I took that back...and found my own inner peace.

In truth, part of his beauty , IS his BPD...it Is what it IS. I don't want to change him. I want him to BE. Doesn't mean abuse me...he can't do that, if I'm not there. He most desperately doesn't want to lose me again. So, I threw that back on  his plate. His behaviors...are the reason I WILL leave. So he does try...when he is dysregulated...I leave well enough alone. I know what is happening...it's not about me.

Eeyore...I was not an angel after a couple of years in...I FOUGHT back with everything...and lost myself in the process. Wasn't worth it. I left. He still holds that against me some times...and refuses most times to OWN why I left..but on a deeper level...he does KNOW. He has admitted it to me...Once.

He knows there is a problem...and he fights it...but sometimes..he loses the battle with himself. I just am not there to be his whipping boy anymore.

I worked backwards on A LOT of this stuff...I TOLD him...YOU  ARE BPD...I had nothing left to lose, so threw my cards on the table...told him about bpdfamily.com...sent the links...If he believes I am the *sick* one,...then read about how to deal with me ...he must have looked...and said nothing. That's ok. He knows where I stand.

My H loves me in all his actions...except when he goes bonkers...and then BPD come screeching forward...I see that. It is what it is.

Leave the blast zone...calm my  my-issuesreengage...as such...much of the raging has calmed down. The drinking...he knows...BUT...he tries...not hard enough...but he tries.

In so many ways, my H is an amazing man. Not some slackard bum sucking me dry, wasting his life dragging his ass around the house...the very opposite. I wouldn't put up with the former.

In short...it's soo much better, on so many levels. For me at any rate...for him? I doubt he appreciates the difference to be honest. okay, not entirely true...once...he was maudlin and had a few too many beers...with tears in his eyes, he held me close, and told me he felt ACCEPTED. 

ALSO:

1.Told him about the one year exit. If not better, I am done. No more.

2. Ever lay a hand on me again. Done.

3. Stop me from leaving when I feel it's best that I leave. DONE!

I choose when it's enough to protect myself from  my-issuesinfestation.

If not...it will not work.

He can't get therapy here, nor admit he needs help...so, I am left to protect myself and the relationship. On a gut level...he knows it. Not sure, as I don't make a big scene about leaving the blast zone...I sneaky sneaky bugger off. Frustrates him, I know that...but the other alternative is much worse.

[LivingWell]

Natasha,

You have come so far so fast.  Maybe it doesn't seem like it to you but you have made amazing progress from where you were a few short months ago.

Congratulations!

Loretta

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Natasha Tomicic]

  Loretta

You are/ were a big help in that.

Thank you so very much for peeling open me eyeballz  xoxo

[atwittsend]

hey natasha...  

[LivingWell]

That's what we are here for is to enlighten one another.  You are the second person today I'm committing to drink a congratulatory toast to tonight. I better get off the board before it is  three.  Then I would be unable to communincate. Oops.

Really congratulations.  I'm so glad you found the strength within you. It ws there all the time.

[eeyore]

I recognize your symptoms and know them well.  You may have what Dr. LivingWell named "non-person syndrome". Dr. LivingWell diagnosed me first!

Many nons were raised in a home with BPD's or other 'difficult' people.  Everything the BPD's said or did was wrong.  The crazies were making the rules and demanding all the attention.  As a non I learned to shut up and stay out of the line of fire. I was a non person.

We non-people may have grown up and become smart, effective and confident.  We may get praised for our brains and good works.  Yet at the core of our self-confidence is the soft non-person.

You and I grew up to value truth and speaking the truth.  We want to get to the core of truth.  We want to speak the truth.  We want to say what we think.  If we can't do that with our loved ones we become non-people.  Our BPD loved ones know how to find and hurt the soft core better than anyone.  After the BPD has stomped on my confidence and I can't say what I'm thinking, I'm a non-person.   I don't exist in this world. Boom! I'm going to say what is on my mind (not a good idea) or I'm going to walk away (I am crushed).

Personally, I cannot imagine a person who had my back in all situations; Except when we were together he could hurt me to the core and I couldn't respond with what was on my mind.  It  would destroy me. 

Is this what happens to you?  Don't know.  Is there some way to "fix" you?   :)on't know.  Are you BPD?  Don't think so.  But when BPD gets to your core and escalates the drama you are not going to be denied the opportunity to say you piece.  I understand.  Been there.  Know the problem.  Not the answer.

eeyore raising her hand jumping up and down... I can relate and I'd be interested in finding answers/help.

[Natasha Tomicic]

eeyore raising her hand jumping up and down... I can relate and I'd be interested in finding answers/help.

I don't have answers...thoughts...if you want to read them.

Before you met your BF, were you someone who grabbed life by the ballz and made it scream? Nothing was going to stop you, and when someone said " No way...you can't do that. " My thought was " Watch me!" and...I did.

So, what changed?

And...why did it feel somewhat familiar?

This is where we get into the navel gazing FOO issues...and what not

...and because I know jack squat about psychology, I will leave it at that. Loretta is very very good at this.

Uhmmm and regarding labels and what not...it's quite the red herring 

[eeyore]

no i have to admit I've had issues with my personal relationships because I have a sense of control that I can't seem to get over.  I dislike when someone tells me not to do something and I can't see a good reason why other than it's what they want.  The problem is it's what I want. 

[oneflewover]

This was something to read this resurrection of this post of yours miss Natasha, our resident spice girl (cause we all can't be sugar!   ).

You clearly have had an internal change happen and I can see it in your posts.  It is so wonderful to see!

You will never know...how much I have appreciated you all for being here.

The kindness, PATIENCE, wisdom and tolerance for this very  my-issuesridden Anger disordered  person herself...I feel like a real crud for having been so...*argh*, hostile and blind to the purpose.

xoxox

[Natasha Tomicic]

I have a sense of control that I can't seem to get over.

...Ahh   ...do you always like to have a car or another mode of transport when you go somewhere that you have control over your movements as well?

just asking...

 OFO...it's a much nicer place of BEING.

[eeyore]

I have a sense of control that I can't seem to get over.

...Ahh   ...do you always like to have a car or another mode of transport when you go somewhere that you have control over your movements as well?

just asking...

  OFO...it's a much nicer place of BEING.

the answer to your question is no.  I just hate when I'm always compromising.  

[Natasha Tomicic]

I just hate when I'm always compromising. 

Hmmmm...then don't.

Pick your battles then more carefully.

Compromise on the non important things...and the others, don't.

You do NOT have to if you do NOT want to.

That's where you need to look at your boundaries. How are they?

[eeyore]

I have better boundaries now than I have ever had.  I feel more self confident in myself than I have ever felt.  But sad that the person who in many ways has caused me to dig deep in my soul look at my  foo issues to find this confidence can't share in the joys that the self esteem, skills, etc have given me.  Instead he pushed me away and broke up with me.  He couldn't deal with me being insisent and thought I was unreasonable for standing up for myself.  I feel overly criticized and misunderstood by him when I made mistakes while I was growing my wings and learning skills 

I hear the stories of how you and your H and others have or/are overcoming the behaviors and I want to be able to also.  So I pushed my desires and he pushed back by breaking up with me and saying this isn't what he wants.  I am now in the mode to accept it.  What more should I be doing?   Or what other things can I be doing to help me?  I tried to sleep I only could sleep for an hour.  So in the last two days I've had maybe 4 hours of sleep.  Am I heading in the right direction? 

[Natasha Tomicic]

I will do my best here...cuz I am rather poor at describing the finer points.

But sad that the person who in many ways has caused me to dig deep in my soul look at my  foo issues to find this confidence can't share in the joys that the self esteem, skills, etc have given me.

Of course he's not going to be happy about that...he loses control over you when you start setting those boundaries around you. He can't tear at you in the same manner anymore.

He couldn't deal with me being insisent and thought I was unreasonable for standing up for myself.

Standing up for yourself doesn't necessarily mean being insistent...just do it. Let your actions speak alone.

I feel overly criticized and misunderstood by him when I made mistakes while I was growing my wings and learning skills

Did you think he was going to validate any of that? Never!

I hear the stories of how you and your H and others have or/are overcoming the behaviors and I want to be able to also.

Not overcome...the behaviors are still present...how I deal with them, is another matter.

So I pushed my desires and he pushed back by breaking up with me and saying this isn't what he wants.

He doesn't want someone who is not willing to be a doormat. ok.

I am now in the mode to accept it.

Yeeeeeeahhhh...not really. Not sure even how to explain it, it comes from within you.

1. I know he's going to act like a nut sometimes.

2. Not a darn thing I can do about that.

3. Some times...it's just hilarious...I have to stop myself from laughing...and focus on Validation.

4. I feel so sorry for the inner turmoil that takes over him...and nothing I can do about it.

5. I know who I AM. And if for any reason it's not enough for him..----> the door is that way, don't be thinking you're coming back any time soon...if ever. I love him, it will hurt like hell...*oh well* been through worse. I will survive just fine thank you.

6.

What more should I be doing?   Or what other things can I be doing to help me?  I tried to sleep I only could sleep for an hour.  So in the last two days I've had maybe 4 hours of sleep.  Am I heading in the right direction?

Eeyore...working on what you ReALLy want. This revolving chaos he's got you trapped in...you are allowing it. He doesn't cut you free of it...you cut yourself free.

[Natasha Tomicic]

1.Told him about the one year exit. If not better, I am done. No more.

2. Ever lay a hand on me again. Done.

3. Stop me from leaving when I feel it's best that I leave. DONE!

Keeping myself  honest with me:

Point #1 We made it past Nov 16th, one year without violence.

Point #2. Dec 16th, gong show drinking. AM...I corrected his Facts. *oops* he escalated throwing coffees. I engaged, was not foul, but was loud. H cuffed me...I grabbed whatever handy and let him have it at the temple.

Why?

Point#1 achieved by Not being around when he was dysregulated. My error on engaging. yeah...shouldn't be that way, but it is...he was over the edge and really really down and ashamed of the AM events

Note to self: Do not bother Ever trying to validate when he's been in the bottle.

Validation of mate has created a far more peaceful environment for both. I feel more heard, he can validate me on some frustrations, anything to do with his actions= forget about it. Won't happen.

Xmas was a total crater zone...and same thing. BE out of Sight! He cannot leave well enough alone...

Told him about BPD [ again] and his mother's Bipolar insanity...that he knows his childhood was not normal...and I still love him with whatever it is he suffers from.

Me: Not so angry anymore...strange...  ?

Thank you to all of you that helped me.  You will never know how much I appreciate that.  xoxo