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Author Topic: COMPARISON: Narcissistic Personality Disorder vs BPD  (Read 6648 times)
lurchlookalike
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« Reply #75 on: December 13, 2012, 03:33:20 AM »

Ms. Kreger definitely knows what she's talking about here. Very few of us have seen a side by side comparison of the 2 (BPD vs. NPD) over an extended period of time. There is a big difference in the general modus operandi but I can't deny some overlap.

All NPD actions are self serving, or nearly all. Even those that appear to be helpful and caring for others are generated by a desire to manipulate and confuse. BPD people, from my experience, just are not that way. They don't think they're better than others, they're just out of control children who may hurt you but it's more collateral damange when they're throwing a raging fit.

NPD people tend to be more calculating of the negative effect of their actions and purposely inflict it, yet the real hallmark in my opinion is it's all about #1, nobody else really matters (parents, kids, friends, anyone). It would be much more likely for an NPD to be successful in some business endeavors due to the extreme manipulative quality. BPD would be more out of control with inability to hold a given course until reaching a desired outcome.

I don't know if this makes a lot of sense to others, but I've seen the 2 disorders much closer than I ever would have wished, yet they are people that deserve consideration, just not at the expense of losing yourself in the process. It does help to distinguish the 2 for the reasons given because this can help you manage the situation and stand back, looking at it from a distance with more perception.

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« Reply #76 on: August 21, 2013, 12:53:08 PM »

I have a question about comorbidity. If the pwBPD has NPD as well-how does that affect the drug treatment? This site has displayed a statistic about male pwBPD that implies a 47% co-occurence of narcisssism which I feel was true of myxSO. So have there been any studies about that? How well does DBT work when both BPD and NPD are present?
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« Reply #77 on: August 23, 2013, 04:12:07 PM »

I think once there is a diagnosis - which could be BPD and NPD, or some other combination - the treatment plan is designed for the individual.  The key is for the individual to get a diagnosis, and work with the therapist - it's usually some form of long-term talk-therapy.
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« Reply #78 on: October 27, 2015, 06:21:44 AM »

Narcissism

Joanna M. Ashmun.

www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/NPD/index.html

Narcissistic individuals feel that they are special and unique in ways that others aren’t. They lack empathy to a stunning degree, and are amazed when others protest their poor treatment of them. They expect privileges and indulgences, and they also feel entitled to exploit other people without any trace of reciprocation. Their behavior is contemptuous towards others, a dismissive attitude towards other people's feelings, wishes, needs, concerns, standards, property, work, etc. In their minds normal rules don’t apply to them and they will break them when they feel they can get away with it, yet they expect others to follow them. And they criticize, gripe, and complain about almost everything and almost everyone almost all the time. Narcissists have little sense of humor. They don't get jokes, not even the funny papers or simple riddles, and they don't make jokes, except for sarcastic cracks and the lamest puns. Narcissists are not only selfish and ungiving -- they seem to have to make a point of not giving what they know someone else wants.

There is only one way to please a narcissist (and it won't please you): that is to indulge their every whim, cater to their tiniest impulses, bend to their views on every little thing. and do not expect any reciprocation at all, do not expect them to show the slightest interest in you or your life (or even in why you're bothering with them at all), do not expect them to be able to do anything that you need or want, do not expect them to apologize or make amends or show any consideration for your feelings, do not expect them to take ordinary responsibility in any way. Once they know you are emotionally attached to them, they expect to be able to use you like an appliance and shove you around like a piece of furniture. If you object, then they'll say that obviously you don't really love them or else you'd let them do whatever they want with you. If you should be so uppity as to express a mind and heart of your own, then they will cut you off -- just like that. Once narcissists know that you care for them, they'll suck you dry -- demand all your time, be more work than a newborn babe -- and they'll test your love by outrageous demands and power moves. In their world, love is a weakness and saying "I love you" is asking to be hurt, so be careful: they'll hurt you out of a sort of sacred duty. They can't or won't trust, so they will test your total devotion. If you won't submit to their tyranny, then you will be discarded as "no good," "a waste of time," "you don't really love me or you'd do whatever I ask," "I give up on you." These people are geniuses of "Come closer so I can slap you."  

Im still not sure, because the quoted passage above EXACTLY models her abuse, actions, behaviour and comments "you don't really love me or you'd do whatever I ask," - she has literally said this to me in one form or another, repeatedly over three years.

Yet her overwhelmingly NEEDINESS trumps the Grandiosity, but the Gross entitlement is there too.

And the total LACK OF EMPATHY - she basically daily told me she didn't care about me, for two years. Yet would continue to ask, demand, beg for money AND made sure i felt obligated, guilty or fearful NOT to send her more money.
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daz_bpd
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« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2015, 06:33:32 AM »

I've been pondering some of the ways BPDs differ from each other ... I sometimes think that what a given BPD will do is bounded by what they would do "anyway", in an extreme situation - where they "had to" or felt justified doing it.

E.g. if they would tell huge whopping lies if they "had to", then they will tell you huge whopping lies.  If they would get physically violent if they "had to" or because you richly deserved it, then they will get physically violent. If they would cheat when their partner "deserves it" or doesn't live up to expectations, then they will cheat.

Because emotionally they feel like almost every situation is extreme - they "have to", or like you totally deserve their worst because of how awful you are to them. So the difference between them and other BPDs is merely going to be in whatever their "worst" happens to be.

Just my poorly expressed armchair psychology about why some BPDs cheat, some don't, some lie, some don't, etc.

This also EXACTLY models how she would behave. Joanna M. Ashmun. original passage in the first post, and this...

so i don't know whether she is BPD or NPD

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Creativum
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« Reply #80 on: November 03, 2015, 02:51:42 PM »

Some folks out there seem to think that those with BPD are also narcissists.  This just seems counterintuitive to me, abut apparently it's common to find NPD in folks with BPD.

Can anyone shed light on what this might look like?
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« Reply #81 on: November 03, 2015, 03:02:52 PM »

I'd like to know too.

Lifewriter x
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Creativum
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« Reply #82 on: November 03, 2015, 03:38:36 PM »

I'd like to know too.

Lifewriter x

I honestly have no real idea since it seems so contradictory, but this is why I ask:

My ex constantly talks about how he deserves "the job" ... "the relationship" ... "the money" ... "the body" ... "the education" ... "the house" ... "the location" ... Anything and everything that others understand to require hard work and delayed gratification, he thinks he deserves YESTERDAY, without any real idea of how to achieve that goal.

He doesn't have a professional job, but he works within a professional organization, so he never states what he does within that organization unless someone presses him for it.  Once they find out, he immediately thinks they're judging him for it and hates them.

He thinks he has great talent in a particular area, but, while he's good, he's simply not professional material, and never will be.  He simply doesn't put in the work or have the drive to learn about and from those who came before him.  

He goes after mates, dates, and friends who have something to offer him:  money, rides, erotic capital, social capital, unconditional validation despite sometimes criminal/unethical behaviors -- he wants his mates, dates, and friends to be everything he's not.  He has no problem discarding them when they've given him something to temporarily satiate his need.

Diagnosed with sex addiction, he has raped (yes, raped) a number of people he desires sexually because they're what he is not but desires to be.  This gives him sick validation.  He'll wait until someone is somehow incapacitated and take advantage.  That's rape, folks.  They're always people who wouldn't ordinarily consent, but he justifies his behavior by saying their body language during the act showed they loved it.

Projects his sexuality onto others.  If he's feeling hetero, everyone is hetero. If he's feeling gay, everyone is gay.  If he's feeling bi, everyone is bi. If he's feeling non-monogamous, then monogamy is unnatural.

Anyone who speaks out against his behaviors or rejects his advances is split black as coal, and it's never his fault. He's been fired from every job he's ever had (none of them "good" jobs -- he can't get one of those).  As soon as someone says something, or he perceives that they've said something, that isn't 100% PC or positive, he lashes out, thinking they're speaking against him.

He has been diagnosed with body dysmorphia, but he actually loves his body as much as he hates it, and says things like he's proud that he can give sexual pleasure to men and women.

Constantly talks about how the place where he lives -- the place he had to return to when things didn't work out -- is full of rednecks, uneducated bigots, etc. etc. etc., acting like he's above them. At times, he even talks about his family in this way.

He ruuuuuns to mommy every time he wants something or things don't work out, and she gives him whatever she can.  This includes letting him live with her as an adult with no expectation of contributing to expenses.  The rest of his family, when he does something stupid or bad, and call him out on it, are shunned.  Until he needs something, particularly validation, in an environment with little other supply. Then he loves them again and buys little gifts and things to get back on their good side.  Otherwise, silent treatment.

Oh, and with me? He pretended to have a reeeeally bad memory (to help him with his lies), but when I was split black and really called him out, his memory was phenomenal. He remembered details of things I had said in passing and immediately used those to gaslight me.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 03:50:49 PM by Creativum » Logged
Lifewriter16
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« Reply #83 on: November 03, 2015, 03:46:57 PM »

I can see why you might be wondering about NPD given the sense of entitlement you are describing. I don't know much about NPD, but my interest is because an old flame of mine once told me that he would pass by opportunities to date 'ordinary' girls because he only wanted the best looking ones and they generally didn't want him. He said that he would only feel confident if he had the really special girl on his arm. Does this sound like NPD? I'm not sure, because he's aware of his lack of confidence.

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Creativum
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« Reply #84 on: November 03, 2015, 03:52:36 PM »

I can see why you might be wondering about NPD given the sense of entitlement you are describing. I don't know much about NPD, but my interest is because an old flame of mine once told me that he would pass by opportunities to date 'ordinary' girls because he only wanted the best looking ones and they generally didn't want him. He said that he would only feel confident if he had the really special girl on his arm. Does this sound like NPD? I'm not sure, because he's aware of his lack of confidence.

Lifewriter

YES!  Mine does this, too!  He thinks he's not masculine enough, so he rapes straight men.  He thinks his body isn't good enough, so he tries to bed as many people with his desired body type as possible.  It's gotten him into SERIOUS trouble before already.  He covets.  He wants everything he's not.  He would make me feel soo bad about my body because it wasn't the kind of body he desired for himself. 
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« Reply #85 on: November 03, 2015, 04:04:25 PM »

This old flame of mine crushed my sense of being sexually and physically attractive. He wanted me to wear specific underwear, specific perfume, said he really wanted to date a 'goth' (he wasn't even vaguely goth himself and nor was I). I felt like I just wasn't good enough for him. No other man has ever left me feeling sexually inadequate (apart from the one who was so drunk that he fell asleep mid coitus). He said he didn't think of me in 'that' way and that he could see no romantic future for us. Yet, he was sexually interested in me when it suited him and then totally disinterested. I could never tell which way he'd go. He said he wanted a polyamorous relationship. Said he wanted to find a sexually uninhibited woman who would teach him the ropes and bring him out of his shell sexually, yet he said he could see him still wanting to be with me. He wanted me to give my express permission to this. He said he preferred images of women to actual women because the 'look' in their eyes during sex was the important thing. And he's really into Japanese cross dressing men.

How could I ever have thought this man was interested in me? Lx
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Creativum
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« Reply #86 on: November 03, 2015, 04:08:46 PM »

This old flame of mine crushed my sense of being sexually and physically attractive. He wanted me to wear specific underwear, specific perfume, said he really wanted to date a 'goth' (he wasn't even vaguely goth himself and nor was I). I felt like I just wasn't good enough for him. No other man has ever left me feeling sexually inadequate (apart from the one who was so drunk that he fell asleep mid coitus). He said he didn't think of me in 'that' way and that he could see no romantic future for us. Yet, he was sexually interested in me when it suited him and then totally disinterested. I could never tell which way he'd go. He said he wanted a polyamorous relationship. Said he wanted to find a sexually uninhibited woman who would teach him the ropes and bring him out of his shell sexually, yet he said he could see him still wanting to be with me. He wanted me to give my express permission to this. He said he preferred images of women to actual women because the 'look' in their eyes during sex was the important thing. And he's really into Japanese cross dressing men.

How could I ever have thought this man was interested in me? Lx

Pretty sure mine was cheating on you with me, then.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) He said early on that monogamy was his thing, then said during the discard that he's not attracted to my body type, that he wanted to open our relationship, that he's too young and still wants to have fun, that he's attracted exclusively to a certain type.  He wanted sex with me when HE wanted it, and I always felt like crap because he'd reject me when I'd initiate.  He also said he saw no future with me.  All this from someone who the first month was all over me several times a day.  But when he tried to recycle, which lasted only a few days, he was back to saying the same thing he had said in the beginning ... only to change his mind as the week wore on.  Honestly, though? I know what he's up to, and the things he's up to are sex offenses that I honestly wish I could report without looking like a psycho stalker.  He really does try to victimize people sexually, and has on numerous occasions.
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« Reply #87 on: November 03, 2015, 04:16:08 PM »

I have wondered this also.

There are four types of pwBPD. The queen, witch, waif and hermit. My ex wife was a waif type and my exgf was the queen type. I would say my ex wife was BPD with HPD traits wheras my exgf was most likely BPD/NPD.

I have wondered if this is typical.
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« Reply #88 on: November 03, 2015, 04:31:03 PM »

It sounds like we're both well out then, Creativum. Thanks ever so much. This discussion was just what I needed because my old flame is difficult to shake off. He's been giving me the 'I still love you routine' and I've been in so much conflict emotionally. Everything in his behaviour suggests he feels nothing of the sort for me. What he loves is the love I feel for him. He wants to see the love and adoration in my eyes again. Well, I've got news for him... it isn't going to happen.

Lifewriter
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« Reply #89 on: November 03, 2015, 04:34:54 PM »

Hi enlighten me

What were the main differences between your ex-wife (waif - poss BPD/HPD) and ex-girlfriend (queen - BPD/NPD)? I'd like to hear how this may look in practise.

Lifewriter x
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enlighten me
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« Reply #90 on: November 04, 2015, 12:54:44 AM »

Hi Lifewriter

The main differences where my exwife never really argued and bottled things up. She also played the pity card a lot and always seemed ill. My exgf would start arguments all the time and believed she was always right about everything. She also thought she was amazing at everything she did.
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« Reply #91 on: November 04, 2015, 01:01:37 AM »

Okay, enlighten me, that makes sense.

Lifewriter x
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