Why do some BPD relationships last so long?

[FloatOn]

This is a question I've been pondering. It seems like some relationships written about on these forums are fairly brief, with the BPD SO idealizing then devaluing the person within as little as a few months, the relationship continuing for 3-6 months after that (with the non clinging onto hope that he/she will revert back to the good behavior), then the relationship ending. But, there are others I've read about on here, where the relationship has progressed to marriage and they've been together years, sometimes decades. What happened in these? Did the BPD behavior not manifest itself into many many years down the road (sometimes more than 10 years)? Did they have any severe problems and the non just put up with it? Did the person not even develop their BPD until much later in life?

In my situation, we were together for 4 years. She was in psychotherapy initially, but her insurance lapsed. I didn't notice any off-putting behavior until after we moved in together. I believe this may have triggered her fear of abandonment. However, she didn't completely lose it until a period of very high stress. Is it possible her BPD symptoms laid dormant for 2.5 years until things triggered her? Or is it more likely the idealization phase simply lasted that long? It's weird in that she seemed to idealize me right up until the break-up (and after at times!), it's just that the crazy behavior started to creep in gradually when we moved in together.

[mindatrisk]

I suppose there are numerous factors.  My relationship lasted about 2 years on and off, although if I hadn't have been so enmeshed I should have ended it after 8 months when she cheated on me, but at that time I didn't know she was BPD, so it was confusing but didn't seem to be something that would become a pattern. 

It sounds like your ex might not have been too badly afflicted by BPD (just from your OP).  Mine unravelled very quickly after quite a few months of dodgy behaviour but nothing traumatic.  Then of course there is the non side too.  How much are we willing to tolerate?  There are people here who have had decades of marriage to a BPD, and I suppose after a certain point it becomes 'normal' and coping mechanisms are created and you just keep ploughing on. 

[G.J.]

I've often wondered the same thing.  Best I can tell from reading on these boards, I suppose it's a variety of factors.

My ex and I were together for 6 months, then 3 months, and 3 months again - over a 2-1/2 year period.  (Third time was a charm - I'm never going back.)  Interestingly, the wheels fell off the bus the very morning after my ex moved in with me as well.  It was less than 3 months later when I broke off our engagement.

--  I get the impression that some BPD's seem to cycle more rapidly than others.  All 3 times, my ex would be amazing for the first month (and the first time, for the first 3 months).  Then a flare up - then calm for 2 weeks.  Another flare up - then calm for a week.  Then the flare ups would come every few days.  Then just about every day.  Had they been more spaced apart, I might have hung in there longer.

--  It seems that some BPD's are more impulsive than others, and may rush the relationship faster than some.  My ex bought a $10K ring 6 weeks into dating, moved in with me 6 weeks after that, and tried to get me to agree to set the wedding date for 3 months after that.  I think this just accelerated the entire process.  If other BPD's are a little more methodical or not quite so urgent in their enmeshment, it may drag it out longer.

--  I also get the impression that some BPD's have quite a bit of compassion - either for their S/O's or at least the world in general.  One of the things that made my ex so intolerable was his utter lack of compassion for anyone or anything.

--  My T believes my ex is comorbid AsPD, which made walking away a NECESSITY, not a choice.  If the BPD is comorbid with other illnesses, this could make it more difficult for someone to stay with them.

--  They say that some BPD's are high functioning and some are low functioning.  High functioning BPD's may be easier to stay with because at least you're not tanking your life rescuing them all the time.  OR, low functioning BPD's may be harder to leave due to the fear of suicide or a total life collapse in the aftermath.  (I guess it would depend on the Non.)

--  It seems that some BPD's express guilt after they have raged or acted out.  I can see this keeping an S/O enmeshed longer as well.  My ex never expressed guilt (unless he was trying to win me back).  He just invoked pity in me, which only kept me around for so long.

--  I also think once you get married to someone - and especially have children with them - or are financially dependent on the BPD, it is MUCH harder to get out.  I thank my lucky stars every day that my ex didn't get me pregnant, and that I had the strength to call off the wedding.

--  And I agree with mindatrisk that some Non's are more patient, tolerant and/or codependent than others.  I know how badly I got sucked into Oz after only 6 months... .  I can't imagine how lost I'd be after 6 years.  I give a lot of credit to these people for getting out after all that time.  I don't know how they stayed - but I can't imagine what it was like to harness the sanity to leave, either.

[kj1234]

My stbxw pursued me quickly and we dated for at least three years.  I was happy with her and she didn't show any signs of the raging against me, but there were other odd things that she did to other people and just some strange behaviors (frequent regressing to childlike behavior, which in some ways can be charming and seem refreshing because of the apparent unrepressed childlike excitement, even if irrational at times).

My ex really wanted to get married and, as friends and family have reported to me recently, cried on one's shoulder about it and pulled another aside for advice on how to persuade me to marry her.  When I proposed I was ready and wanted to marry her.  I still though she was absolutely great and very unique in her love and generosity, especially toward me.

Very soon after we got married things started to change some, but there was still no raging.  My stbxw is very composed, as needed for her career, but also had a very hard time expressing any dissatisfaction or anger.  But she calmly said she was thinking about leaving a handful of times over four years of marriage.  I think she was more dissatisfied, and possibly suffering, more than I knew.  But rather than talk about it, she slowly? began shutting me out of portions of her life.  At this point I really have no idea how long she was having, or at least cultivating the affair, or if there were other things going on that I did not know about, etc.  Now that she is gone and I found out about some of these things, I really have no idea about the extent of it.  Even though she did not rage, she calmly complained and blamed and projected until at the end I just really thought everything was my fault and I was at a loss about what to do about it.  I was not perfect, but I was not guilty of many of the actions, thoughts or feelings she attributed to me and did not have any major transgressions, such as cheating, lying, etc.

When she left after an elaborate campaign of cruel and outrageous behavior, including a sexual affair that she tried less and less to hide, I could hardly believe she was the same person or that she would do such things to me, acting as if I were and enemy and a criminal.  I think as part of the campaign she turned her family and others against me with sick lies and distortions.

So in my case I think my stbxw had the skills to cover up, the skills to act appropriately, lacked the ability to show anger or discuss issues, etc.  However, I also think she soothed herself through four years of marriage with fantasies about leaving and a plan to leave that she did not follow through on for a long time because she did not have financial discipline and she had not yet gotten firmly anchored in another relationship.  If I am kind to myself and optimistic, I can think that she partially stayed because she wanted to be with me.  I really don't know if this is true, or it could be that she was not consistent in her thoughts about that either.

When she said she was leaving (she had executed an eleborate plan covered by deceit and secrecy, even coaching her young son to deceive me), I asked her how long she had been planning it.  She replied, "A long time.  Almost from the beginning."  Even now I don't know exactly what that meant.  There are a few possible scenarios and none is good.

From my point of view the relationship plus marriage lasted as long as they did because I did not put many demands on her, nor she on me, at least not directly.  Also, I think she may have changed back and forth between enjoying our time together and enjoying her secret fantasy life, which sometimes went beyond fantasy.  Logistically things seemed to be working well, but there were some strains.  As soon as "something changed", in her words, while I was away, she changed drastically and viciously to something hardly human.  (I think I have a pretty good idea what that something was, but I am not sure).  There is a lot of evidence now that she was planning her exit for a while and living somewhat of a secret life on the side.  Still she continued to blame me and I continued to try to improve my behavior.  At the end she was a cruel, vicious, lying animal whore and enlisted the support of her family members to secretly carry out the plan behind my back, though most of them probably were unaware of the sexual activities, just believing I treated her badly and she was not happy.  I think the big change of behavior happened when she made a decision, perhaps by wreckless behavior for which she takes no responsibility, to pursue the other guy full force.  This is not a woman who can make room for anything else when she is in that mode.  My only regret is that I did not express more lover and affection for her outwardly, even at the end when she was accusing me rightly for not doing those things.  But it was difficult at that point under the circumstances.  Had I done it I would not have to wonder now about how things would have gone, but rationally speaking I don't think it would have been any different.

What she didn't do in outward raging, she made up for in other ways and did it quadruple at the end--making up for lost time, I guess.  But lots of the other BPD characteristics were there all along.  But I am still baffled about how I went so long thinking how lucky I was to have her as a wife, then to think what she did (and is doing) at the end and what she may have been doing and/or thinking all along.  I wonder if I was living a conscious life.  I believe we humans are intuitive and often know what is going on, if we want to.

[rickh3255]

Really good question... .  sometimes the rages and obvious BPD behaviors don't show up until some crisis hits that throws any coping mechanisms out the window.

In my wife's case, it was the death of her father.  Suddenly she was screaming she was an orphan (she was 47 at the time) and completely regressed to the emotional state of a young teenager.  Striking out, cutting, suicide.

In the 23 years we were married there were many of the signs of BPD, fear of abandonment, no self esteem, emptiness, devaluing old friends, etc. Looking back I can see the red flags that popped up over the years but they were not obvious to me or any family or friends at the time.

I wish that things had turned out differently, made different choices along this road, be all wise and understand everything about life.

BTW, that was sarcasm,

RickH3255

[lieslieslies]

kj1234,

thanks for your effort of discribing the life along with a BPD, I don´t

have time for it right now, so I say as many of us, it is exactly my own story,

exept it was on for seven years and only a "relation", otherwise carbon-paper between

pls write again soon.

rgs

3L

[FloatOn]

kj1234,

Your ex-wife sounds eerily similar to my ex-gf. I feel like we lasted as long as we did partly because I basically put zero demands on her until the last couple months of our relationship when our finances were tight. And even then, when she wouldn't handle her money well, I didn't get mad at her. But, rather than let stuff go, I would ask her to be more careful with money or to at least TALK to me about how much she could contribute to bills that month. Somehow she twisted this into me being "really cold about finances". This after I paid for virtually everything for the past 2 years.

She also didn't rage, but she would bottle stuff up. And, towards the end, she was withdrawn into her online fantasy world. I didn't think anything of it because she was stressed out and used her online game she played to "escape". This only lasted a couple weeks. I caught her flirting with a guy on there and talking about me, then she was gone.

I also wonder all the time if things could have lasted if I'd shown more outward affection. Or if I'd chosen to propose to her sooner as she was obsessed with getting married. I'm not the type of guy to constantly tell a girl how beautiful she is, and maybe that's why she craved attention so much. And maybe she left because she thought I was never going to marry her or give her children; there is a lot of indication that she believed this. But then I read stories on here about how things get WORSE after marriage because it doesn't "fix" the BPD and the intimacy only increases their abandonment fears.

What sucks the most is that since she bottles stuff up so much I never got any clear answers. The last time I spoke with her about the relationship, like 3 months ago now, she flat out told me she "doesn't know what happened". The way I see it it could be two things: the fear of abandonment made her flip out and leave, and she doesn't want to admit to this or even KNOW this is what was making her anxious (she had a panic attack the day she left me). Or, she doesn't want to admit to herself that she left because she was afraid I didn't want to marry her. She now knows that I did, and she has flat out said she "ruined everything". I can think of so many reasons for the way she behaved, and I think the mostly likely answer is it was "everything put together".

[figurin things out]

I can only speak of my experience and I think the relationships with them last so long because they are experts at the push/pull.  When they feel us drifting they become that person we fell in love with to reign us back in. Then gradually it goes back to where it was. I remember just after one of the many times my exbf and I had broken up, he re-engaged bigtime. Then we were inseparable, he was all over me, even in front of his friends. Then near the end, he wouldn't even include me when he went out.

I also think they are very good at finding those of us who have codependent issues. I made my whole life about him and tried to make him happy. And let's face it, the re-engagement feels so darn good. They know just what to do to make us fall for them all over again. It's intoxicating, that's why we often refer to them as our drug or that we are addicted to them. This dance can be very long and very painful.

[FloatOn]

Really good question... .  sometimes the rages and obvious BPD behaviors don't show up until some crisis hits that throws any coping mechanisms out the window.

----

In the 23 years we were married there were many of the signs of BPD, fear of abandonment, no self esteem, emptiness, devaluing old friends, etc. Looking back I can see the red flags that popped up over the years but they were not obvious to me or any family or friends at the time.

Yes. It was not obvious to me how "mentally ill" my ex was until her stress levels went through the roof. I always knew she didn't handle stress well, we outright talked about it several times, but I didn't know it could lead to the behavior I saw at the end. I also saw the EXACT red flags you saw, and they are clear as day now. Unfortunately until you know of BPD, you don't know the same signs could lead to the end of the relationship through little fault of your own. I know when I saw all those signs, I thought that as long as I was there for her there was no way she'd devalue me the way she did virtually all her old friends. And she outright convinced me that it would be basically impossible for her to leave me based on the things she would say. I remember thinking to myself on a couple occasions (when she was exhibiting really poor behavior) that if I ever wanted out of this that I would have to end it. There was nothing I could do to get her to dump me. Boy was I wrong.

[kj1234]

FloatOn, yes your experience does sound very similar to mine.  "figurin things out", thanks for your story.  I make a brief reference here to one of your comments.

I do not express feelings so much through affection and frequent statements of love, etc.  I do it sometimes, but probably not enough.  I know this is one of my faults.  Without trying to make an excuse for that, I also think most people who know me understand this and also see that I express myself in other ways.  I was always concerned about and interested in my stbxw's life and issues and those of her son.  Yet she often said I wasn't and made bizarre accusations about my feelings for other women.  I rarely, maybe a few times per year, socialized without her and these times would almost always be a problem for her.

I get a little concerned and have to look at myself when I see statements like "figurin things out" saying, "near the end he wouldn't even include me when he went out."  This causes me a little concern about my own behavior because my stbxw would say the same about me and there is a some truth in it.  But nearly all my activities that did not include her were business activities and it was very important that I do them because of very pressing business and financial challenges.  In fact, all those things are less pressing to me now that she left because I was always motivated by my desire to make things better for us as a whole family.  Still, she would say (I guess she believed it) that she thought I was out looking for other women.

I do admit that some of my business, financial, legal and medical challenges sometimes left me with less to put into the marriage than I would have liked to, but I did the best I could.  I know there is always more that I could have done, especially if I realized what was going on in her mind, but I didn't and she didn't tell me.

I can't say that (after a while) I thought she would never leave, in spite of her threats.  I just never understood how serious she was, partially because I did not see problems myself that couldn't be handled by us working together.  She told me she did not want me to be involved in some of the things about which she eventually blamed the failure of the marriage on my lack of involvement.  Until the very end I never though her leaving was imminent or that she would not talk with me about it in advance.  Boy, was I wrong about that.  Near the end she was telling people, even in front of me, that we had a lot of serious problems.  I didn't even know what she was talking about, though by that time she was actively seeking conflict with me and having an affair.  Sometimes I thought she was testing me; sometimes I thought she was trying to create a crisis that would result in me telling her and showing how much I loved her.  (That actually seemed to change her back at one point toward the end, but it didn't last.)  Her alternate life plan was apparently well into the execution stage by then.  Sometimes it seemed like a game, as if we she thought were both preparing for her departure and making moves in some sort of competition--only I wasn't.  Based on what I observed when she left her first husband, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the story she was telling the new guy and sometimes she forgot how she was supposed to act in each of her separate worlds.

All very strange.  I am still sometimes haunted by the thought that this was just like any other break-up and she just didn't want to be with me anymore, for whatever reason, and I am just rationalizing.  But some of the behavior was just so cruel, irrational, inappropriate, dishonest and incongruent.

For me I think it lasted so long because I was happy in what I though I had and did not see the deterioration that was going on apparently for a long time from her point of view.  To me it was rapid and complete destruction over a short time period at the end.

[FloatOn]

All very strange.  I am still sometimes haunted by the thought that this was just like any other break-up and she just didn't want to be with me anymore, for whatever reason, and I am just rationalizing.  But some of the behavior was just so cruel, irrational, inappropriate, dishonest and incongruent.

For me I think it lasted so long because I was happy in what I though I had and did not see the deterioration that was going on apparently for a long time from her point of view.  To me it was rapid and complete destruction over a short time period at the end.

I also sometimes believe mine was just like any other break-up and she just didn't want to be with me anymore. I do know she is diagnosed with psychiatric problems, but I don't think she is diagnosed with BPD.

I read some stories on here and people often describe themselves as the "perfect partner". Always being there for their SO, showing affection constantly, never getting hostile when they got raged at, etc. I THINK I was a very good boyfriend, heck she told me as much most of the time... .but was this just idealization? I was not perfect, especially maybe towards the end. Should I have been more aware she was unhappy? Maybe. Did she tell me she was unhappy? YES, one time, but darnit she was drunk and her emotions were ALL over the place that night, and she followed it up with "it's not you, it's me... .I need to see a counselor". I know I should have followed that up more and found out why she was unhappy, but I didn't. I don't know why. Maybe because she seemed perfectly fine the next day.

If I had given more attention and been more loving would she have needed to seek attention out from other men? I have no idea. I used to think it was natural and/or normal for romantic attention and the passion to decline in a LTR, especially when you live together. I no longer know if what we had was "normal" or she had a reason to be unhappy. I have never been in any other 4 year relationships before. At the time, I THOUGHT we had more passion and romance in our lives after 4 years than most couples I knew. Now I think I may have been wrong. Maybe I wasn't that great to her and she just never told me because she bottled stuff up.

But it's also a fact that she shows strong tendencies to BP. Also to histrionic and avoidant personalities, depending on the situation she's in. I just don't know if these tendencies caused the break-up, or stuff I did caused her to want to leave. Unfortunately, there is a lot of evidence it was both, and I feel like I could have prevented it had I know of BPD before. And she was rarely abusive (never physically), and when she wasn't dysregulated she was an amazing girl.

[sandyb]

Hi  Float on,

I totally understand your confusion, and where you sit now. I have had almost identical thoughts about maybe not being attentive enough or commited etc, etc, etc. I too have thought that maybe it was simply a case of her being unhappy and wanting something more than our relationship was providing.

But there were simply too many factors in her behaviour and secrecy to really accept that it was so simple, a 2 year relationship gone in the space of a few days, no argument, no discussion, just silent rage for me not doing the expected. The most extreme behaviour I ever witnessed from her, where did that come from?, where did the super girlfriend go?

I had real difficulty at times, as it seemed I needed to be able to mind read or be able to anticipate needs or wants. I got dumped for not commiting when she expected me too, and taking on additional projects outside of work that left her feeling less than centre of attention. She never really talked to me after split other than to extract sympathy and compassion from me, and a text saying "dont put your life on hold for me." So it was my fault in her eyes. Took a while to straighten that thinking out, I didnt know what was ailing her, she wouldnt face any of her issues, couldnt trust me to share any of it, and punished me for it at the same time!

Were you in that position? What hope of happiness could that possibly provide? I think I would have assented to all her needs to keep her happy had I known what they were, but eventually you run out of things to soothe with. Its all about her remember... .

You cannot hold yourself to ransom with such thoughts, I'm sure you realise that if your ex had untreated issues that they were serious obstacles in a fruitful and harmonious relationship.

[JoannaK]

While pondering this, just remember that someone with BPD is mentally ill.  They are mentally ill with a disorder that makes intimacy and emotions very difficult, if not impossible.  Usually when the relationship progresses, things do get worse... .because the person with BPD has more to lose.  Or the person feels engulfed.  So marrying someone who is not recovered with BPD just to show them that you are committed, that you won't abandon them, will rarely work.  :)on't think that by not marrying her, float on, you caused the break up.  

Someone with BPD (and despite no obvious diagnosis, she probably had BPD based on what you wrote) is "unhappy" at their inner core.  They are empty, full of despair and misery.  Some of the tools that we talk about on the Staying board may help... .if the relationship isn't too far gone, if the BPD person is somewhat open (and doesn't have comorbid NPD or aspd).  But many people don't find our boards until the relationship is over or beyond repair.        

It is natural for that intense sexual passion to decline a bit in a LTR; that's normal.  Emotionally challenged people, like those with BPD, may not be able to accept the fact that that stage of the relationship is gone.  They may not be able to move to the next phase of a relationship... .that has nothing to do with their partner, that has to do with their "inner empty pit of need and despair"... .Trying to fill the emotional void of someone with BPD is often like filling up the Grand Canyon with a teaspoon... .except that the Grand Canyon has a bottom.  

Please, floaton, stop blaming yourself.  You didn't know of BPD throughout most of your relationship, and, if you read at the staying or undecided boards, you will see that it often doesn't matter if you knew or not... . Most of those people struggle terribly in their relationships even though they know of BPD and what it means.

******************

Now to get back to your question:  I was with my exh for 20 years.  He was never diagnosed, but the "shoe fit".  He was high-functioning throughout most of those years.  He was not physically violent, he did not call me names, but he was often nasty and sarcastic.  He would cycle through good moods and bad, and, of course, when he was in a bad mood, it had to be my fault.  He would get angry with me because I talked to his friend, "the great artist" about cats.  I guess we were supposed to have an intellectual discussion about art, but we connected on cats.  I played with my salad at a restaurant, and he was distant about that.  He would go into a silent, distant mode when he was mad at me about something.  I would later learn that I had done something (in his eyes) "wrong" and that's why he would pull away.  I was on an Exercycle and he first noticed I had cellulite on my thighs... . so he didn't talk to me for awhile.  I ate too many potato chips at a party and he went distant.  Stuff like that.  Every couple of weeks.  But, as I said, he worked hard during our marriage, he had no drinking problems until the end, he was not physically abusive, he did not cheat until the bitter end of our marriage... He was just distant, nasty, and snotty.  

Things didn't get that much worse after we got married... unless I just can't remember.  But they did get more difficult after our son was born.  We'd been together about 5 years by that time.  I was home for a few years and my exh was the "breadwinner".  Though he made a lot of money, he resented supporting a family.  I felt as though I was raising our son with no emotional support from him, even though he was a caring, attentive father.  

We almost broke up when my son was 4 (1992).  Then we got into marriage counseling for awhile, but it wasn't a good experience for me, as I felt blamed.  But somehow we reconciled (my exh just decided one day that things were o.k. again between us).  We muddled along for another few years.  Things fell apart again in 1995-6.  My exh just stopped speaking to me, but I have no idea what really caused the rift that time.  He barely talked to me for months.  Then he filed for divorce in 1996.  I counter-filed, and within a couple of weeks, he decided to reconcile.  We got into counseling with a good guy... I thought our marriage had a chance; things actually seemed to be moving forward.  And then I discovered that he was doing some online stuff which was pretty creepy.  When I wanted to discuss it in counseling, he decided not to come back.  It was 2000 by this time.  Finally, a year and a half later, I filed for divorce.  I was really, really done by that time.

So, yes, we were together for 20 years... .but things were difficult between us most of that time... .just not absolutely horrible.  If he had been as horrible as many here, if he didn't work most of those years, if he had been drinking or drugging most of those years, I wouldn't have tolerated it.  Because his behaviors weren't "that bad" most of the time, I stuck around for a long, long time.        

[LilacLady]

Married for 25 years.  He's not officially diagnosed as BPD but almost everything he does fits.  He's also very narcissistic.  He is officially diagnosed as bipolar and obssessive compulsive. 

When I first met him I was very needy and vulnerable.  He swept me off my feet, took me to Europe then we moved in together.  I wasn't ready for all of this, but I didn't know how to say "No".  Shortly after this he dragged me off to his home area where I knew no one and had no family.  He isolated me from what little family I had. 

He's never cheated and I don't believe he'll ever leave me.  But he is mean, irritable, impatient, demanding, critical, sarcastic and over controlling.  Sometimes he's nice but it doesn't last long. 

I'm two years from getting a pension at my job.  That's why I stay right now.  I want to hang on until I get my pension and then maybe go for good.

[MxMan]

... .it's just that the crazy behavior started to creep in gradually when we moved in together.

yeah thats kinda what happened to me too. but if i am really honest with myself i saw plenty of signs beforehand. it only seemed to intensify once we moved in. although, perhaps it was always there, i just didnt see it as clearly because she wasnt there 24x7

[reneeth]

I decided for once not to read all the other responses, because what I do is start to reflect and analyse everything.

  So, here, is my gut reaction and response... .for me,  I was dealing with issues that came up in the BPD relationship... .for many years, they were just more subtle, on the back burner, so to speak.

   for me a BPD relationship just threw up in my face what I wasn't dealing with,  it was like a 'collection" and "culmination' of all the ___ I kept avoiding,  than some part of me said... .'get a grip'... .'take some time and consider'... .

I think we all have to honor our lives and our prosesses... .there is no time frame... .we confront what we "choose'    when the time is right... .sort of like... .when we are ready the teacher appears... .



  ... .I need to confront issues in my life,,  I must have been ready to have gone thru this experience and where it has taken me... .

love to all... .

and love to the journey... .

may we all learn,   and love,   and grow... .

what's better... .

for me its not time... .we have a sacred journey and I need to strive for that perspective... .may we all find peace in ou own unique way      Reneeth

[tori3297]

I was in the relationship for almost 20 years because I was willing to give up my own emotional needs for the marriage.  All of the signs of BPD were there from the beginning, but I ignored them.  I walked on eggshells to please him.  I expected little from him and received just that.  But, he said wonderful things that would keep me hanging on.  He said many times that I was the "perfect wife" and how much he needed and loved me.  However, in the end, after 20 years together I found out just how little really meant to him and the things he said were just words.  He suddenly distanced himself from me emotionally, then slowly physically and replaced me before he destroyed what little was left of the marriage I fought so hard to save.  It lasted so long because I didn't have enough respect for myself and continued to tolerate his cruel, controlling and punishing behavior.  So, I believe the relationships that last a long time is due to the non giving and giving and giving until there is nothing left to give.  Sometimes that takes many years. 

[kj1234]

I just received my stbxw's counterclaim for the divorce today and it got me thinking and reminiscing a little.  Since my wife left suddenly and there has been no contact for 11 or 12 weeks, I must admit I had a good feeling just seeing my wife's name with my last name and her signature with the same.  Of course, in her counterclaim she is demanding to resume the use of her maiden name.  That feels like a loss for me.

I just never really thought we had "irreconcilable differences", though I eventually had to think that way and file that way because I really was left with no other choice.  I could have said adultery or abandonment or extreme cruelty, but I have been told it really doesn't matter because I live in a "no fault" state and why create or aggravate anomosities that could make the whole thing more expensive.  I guess you could say those other things are irreconcilable differences and on that last day my stbxw said it was over, so they seemed to be irreconcilable to her.  I really didn't get it, but it was obvious there was someone else and she just beat the crap out of me in many ways for a couple of months before she left.  At the same time we were still having some good friendly times, sex, etc., so it really was confusing.

Looking back, I can say that she definitely pulled back emotionally a while ago, but it was not always, at least on the surface, but maybe underneath it was always.  I still don't know.  I have never been in a LTR before where both sides were not about equally aware that things were not going well.  I guess I should have paid more attention, made some aspects of the marriage more important, and expressed myself more, but I was mostly happy with her and just the knowledge that she was by my side (or so I thought) helped me to handle many difficult challenges.  I often thought about great events in the future with a picture in my mind of her by my side, but I never told her that.

Still, it is hard for me to comprehend the things she would attribute to me at times, while knowing that my thoughts and feelings were not at all what she was saying.  But I always accepted that it was my fault for not saying enough, etc., etc.  Affection was a big issue.  Now having this restraining order against me, and the domenstic violence thing, are just things I have trouble getting my mind around.  They mention it over and over in their counterclaim and maybe they will try to use it against me.  It is just absurd.  However, to be honest, there have been times I have been extremely angry (but only after she left), as you may have seen in some other posts.

So, when we talk about why we stay so long, I can still say that when I think of the entire eight years without the last few months, I would live those over again, but now it would probably not be the same because I see everything so differently.

[gary1958]

Because we dont get it... .I didnt get it until I was 6 months out of mine and on a bi-polar forum one night and a guy came on and asked me if it was all making sense... .and I said nothing fit... he told me to look up BPD and I instantaneously had my light bulb moment. Had I known before what I learned after that moment... .well the relationship would have been over way before the 2 years it lasted. She decided to tell me A YEAR into the relationship she had been diagnosed Panic/Anxiety and I fluffed it off cause I didnt even understand the ramifications of being with someone with that. I had tried to put up boundaries eg. you dont need to call me 10 times a nite. I dont have to email you all day to show you I love you. I dont need to tell you continually how gorgeous you are... .look in the mirror. She walked all over them. The Saturday night before it ended on the Monday. After a crazy Saturday night dinner out where she went in to panic mode again. Was a weekly occurence. I told her a $15 book on Panic Anxiety wasnt going to cut it. She needed to go back on her meds she refused to take for 2 years that were sitting in her car glovebox and needed to go into therapy. She ended it 2 nites later in the MIDDLE of sex over some percieved slight. Ran out of my house and that was that. Again if I would have known then what I know now it would have never gotten as far as it did!

[1bravegirl]

For me and my uBPD and my decision to stay with him for 24 yrs, it was due to me being very young and not valuing myself enough and my self worth.  I thought I had self confidence but obviously not enough to stop the verbal abuse. 

I just made excuses for him since he was raised in a horrible environment and a very abusive home.  But during the last 5 yrs, all of his mentally off ways had gotten alot worse.  He developed certain characteristics of OCD and became completely controlling of the household stuff.  Rearranging the cupboards and the drawers and just very bizarre things that he never did before.  So that was really affecting my psyke bigtime.  His trigger was when we moved to the mountains to care for my dad and then he couldnt find work for over a year.  Deep depression exculated into this.

The abuse was bad enough but now I have someone over my shoulder trying to tell me how to wash a dish and why I need to leave a pot or pan in a particular area!  Madness!   So you deal with the progression of things like that on top of everything else  i.e.  cant keep a job, cant deal with any stress, cant deal with me ever showing any depressed feelings, so i had to hide my tears and fears or he would have a reason to go off on me and use me as the reason for everything.   SEE.  Your the crazy one! its you!  You know, all that stuff and they can really make you start to doubt your own sanity.

Ok well thats enough...   24 yrs and 22 married just this past July 12th was PLENTY!   I do love him as a person but I have been so emotionally unfulfilled for so long im not sure what I feel at this point.  alot of nothing I guess; :'(  and why I continued to stay... .?  Faith that maybe my love and example would motivate him to want to change and be happy like I was.  Have good friends like I had and have a fun enjoyable life like I had.   But I didnt understand what BPD was during this entire time.  I just learned about it the month he moved out which was April of this year.  And yes, he has 9 out of 10 symptoms to a tee.   So hindsight being 2o/20, if I would of known he had this disorder, I would of done things much differently.   But no matter what, I needed to learn to love myself more and set healthy bounderies and stick to them and Im still trying to master that.   hope that gave you alittle insight from my experience with the decades of endurance... .from one of many on this board... .  take care  1bg     

[Lumpy_]

I think one factor is definitely that the non gets suckered in, has their self-esteem blown to sht and feels like their borderline partner is their crutch. They end up fearing abandonment and being alone as much as the borderline supposedly does, becomes depressed but is in denial of the fact that it is their partner that is causing their depression. After all, she tells you multiple times a day that she loves you - she CAN'T be the one causing you all this grief, can she? I guess it takes some longer than others to come to terms with abuse. My mother for example, stayed for 17 years with the COMPLETE psychopath that is my father.

Another may be that the borderline seeks therapy and recovers (if it's caught early enough). As I've mentioned in another post, I was actually diagnosed with BPD a few years ago, only after six months of DBT I now show none of the symptoms aside the occasional bout of hyper-sensitivity. No rages, no self-harming, alcohol abuse or impulsive behaviours whatsoever. I think if it wasn't a misdiagnosis (which my third psychiatrist suspected), I went from high-functioning to low-functioning to pretty much normal. My partner and I have been together for close to three years and these days we rarely ever fight.

[StateYourName]

I'm pretty new to even the concept of BPD, but I have been spending a lot of time thinking about why my marriage has lasted so long (25 years), and I think it speaks more about me (freakishly accepting, blindly loyal, intensely private, and OK with being alone) than about my husband.

[innerspirit]

Hi -- great question, one that haunts me too.

Just getting out of a 19-year marriage and still haven't been able to cut the last cord yet.

I think I got addicted to a number of things:

--the hope that things would suddenly, magically change and I'd wake up out of the nightmare of the double life.  He played on my self-doubt and fear, and that along with denial being such a seductive force, paralyzed me into staying.

-- the challenge of someone having said to me "they don't change".  I thought that X and I could be exceptions and beat the odds.  And that if I were good enough, strong enough, whatever enough, that the private Mr. Hyde would be defeated and disappear.  I didn't see the basic co-dependent fallacy in thinking it could happen if only I were healthy enough.

-- I was raised to believe that the person who dominates me is in the right and if I didn't make waves, I would "earn" their treating me well, with respect.

-- the comparative ease (I thought) of being married --- the "Hell that I know" vs. the one I don't.  All the practical, "business" details of life with X were so easily, efficiently managed by us as a team -- he played the role of model suburban guy taking care of repairs around the house, etc.  (In fact that's how he defined how good of a husband he was.)

-- the power struggle, being baited into the debate arena, I didn't realize that a sense of "winning" could be about taking my own life back regardless of what X and his circle might think of it.  I still struggle with it, but the sense is stronger that I don't have to convince anyone but myself.  (I think I'm finally realizing that meaning of the old joke ":)octor, it hurts when I do this" to which the doctor replies, obviously, "Then stop doing it." 

As the onion layers pull back, I'm learning that it's about facing all that grief and looking at the greys between the black and the white.

[innerspirit]

One more thing to add -- the longer I stayed in, the more difficult it became.

 

The sense of guilt/shame inside myself kept me digging in deeper --- that I had let myself down by not leaving.  At the same time I thought I was supposed to be able to ride the waves of staying with him  -- or at least be in the process of learning how to.

Underneath it was the basic motivation to change (cajole, convince, reassure, etc.) him into being the person he projects himself to be.  Crazy-making.

[Honey]

I have been in a relationship with my as of now ex BPD bf for 4 years and 10 months.  I don't know if you can say it "lasted" that long as it seems to have been more off then on.  I think I have spent more time waiting for his tantrums to cycle then being in the relationship.  Let me say that I really don't just wait around, during those time I just get on with my life and am not surprised when he connects again. 

Had I known then what I know now... I would have walked out the door and never looked back the first time he said his BPD induced garbage.

[kj1234]

Lumpy, your first paragraph, except for the last sentence of it, is something I have thought might apply to me.  I think that was at least part of it.  In that mindset I never even had any thoughts of leaving, just of how I could improve myself and do more for the marriage.  That type of thinking is probably what allowed me to get blindsided so badly and not defend myself adequately.  Unfortunately, sometimes I still think that way and I still am not sure, but still, what she did cannot be justified by any of my behavior or "inadequacies."

[FannyB]

Found this thread whilst doing some research and thought newer members might find it interesting - I certainly did.


Fanny

[bus boy]

It seems for every BPD or npd relationship there can be a different story. My idealization phase was very short. Things got very crazy after we moved in and crazier yet after we got married. I saw red flags very early on. For example, she would out of the blue stop talking to me, I would ask what's wrong, she would say " if you don't know what you did than why tell you". Where does a non put that kind of an answer. One evening early in our relationship, she right out of the blue started calling down her nieces father and his sister, ex bud's niece was angered by this uncalled for abuse, reacted to it and left the room very upset. That was a big red flag I missed. I clung on to my ex BPD for dear life. The final discard of many was brutal but Saved me mentally, I was able to look at me without also trying to figure her out. They keep you in a mental vortex of feeling worthless, the more worthless they can make you feel, the harder you try to prove yourself, the less they give you, the more you feed them, like a dog chasing his tail, cycle of abuse. A smidgen of idealize topped with a heaping helping of devalue discard. I was divorced before, so my ex BPD used that as a catalyst to inflict pain, to keep me hanging on for more. They are all different. Mine was visious,  mean, cold, ruthlessness,  viewed kindness as a weakness,  took every opportunity to inflict maximum pain, to say every mean rotten thing to me about every part of my personality, and say the most vile things about my family every day, when we were together, after the split came the covert abuse, now we are in a whole new ballgame of sinister. Of course I must realize the part I played in this.

[LilMe]

In my situation (20 years married to first one, 10 years with second) I must accept responsibility for them lasting so long.  I married my father twice.  This is the only life I have known!  Raging, love-bombing, criticism, flattery, manipulation; this has been the norm in my life.

In my first marriage I considered myself a 'Christian' and believed the lies of organized religion that it is wrong to divorce.  So many men and women suffer because of this!  I was counseled by our pastors that if I just submitted more, had more sex, was more accepting of him, things would get better.  They didn't.  My children finally convinced me to leave.

My second swooped in like a hawk just days after I left my first husband.  I realize now how messed up I was and he was so nice and helpful.   No one had ever been so kind and flattering to me.  We have so much in common.  And he was a perfect lover.  He is blind and I could help him.  There were definitely red flags, but his abuse didn't manifest until after we had a child.  I felt it was somehow my fault and that I must make it work for the sake of the child.  Then two more children.  The now 7 and 8 year old started to ask if we could move away and I realized it was not working for them.

I feel like I have been in a fog my whole life!  What a waste of almost 50 years!  But I am free now and plan to stay that way.  Even if I am alone for the rest of my life, that is OK.  My children love and accept me in spite of the hell I have put them through.  That is a miracle!  And I plan to be the best mom I can be now.

[SoMadSoSad]

Do you guys think it has to do with the age you first start dating the BPD

[Hadlee]

They keep you in a mental vortex of feeling worthless, the more worthless they can make you feel, the harder you try to prove yourself, the less they give you, the more you feed them, like a dog chasing his tail, cycle of abuse. A smidgen of idealize topped with a heaping helping of devalue discard.

That perfectly describes how I felt.  Thank you for that.

[WoundedBibi]

Do you guys think it has to do with the age you first start dating the BPD

Your age, their age, your emotional development, theirs, where they are on the BPD spectrum, your character, theirs, your background, theirs, your genes, theirs. In short, as per usual, there is no 'one size fits all' answer. We NONs are all different. I'm very different from you, you're very different from Onceremoved, Onceremoved is very different from Penelope35, Penelope35 is very different from C.Stein, and so on. Same goes for our exes. No two are the same even though they might both have BPD.

I notice you have a lot of questions about the pwBPD. Do they come back, do they stalk, do they secretly call, etcetera. Looking for commonalities. Looking to crack the code as it were. Could it be you're still very focused on your ex, what your ex thinks, did, does, will do, might do, and you are not yet focused on your healing?

[Herodias]

I thinks it's pretty simple in that it's all in how much we will take. "Staying together for the marriage" or "children" becomes a theme. We try to make things work in these cases. Divorce is difficult. They act out the whole time and in my case get worse and worse until it's no longer safe to stay. I put up with way more than I should have. So, the next person will take all they can handle. In my case she is having his baby, she is letting him control her (how she dresses, etc.). That will probably mean she will be around for awhile... .will he? I don't think so... .He prefers to have money -I think... .right now they have none. He may look for someone with money once again. I feel like he is trying this out- Actually to me, pretty manipulating because if he stays poor while he is having a baby, that would mean less child support for her later. Mine had anti-social traits so I see him as very calculating. It's all in who they find next as well... .they will stay if they are unsure of who they are dating on this side... .I suppose this may only be my perspective, but it is how my r/s went.

[SoMadSoSad]

Do you guys think it has to do with the age you first start dating the BPD

Your age, their age, your emotional development, theirs, where they are on the BPD spectrum, your character, theirs, your background, theirs, your genes, theirs. In short, as per usual, there is no 'one size fits all' answer. We NONs are all different. I'm very different from you, you're very different from Onceremoved, Onceremoved is very different from Penelope35, Penelope35 is very different from C.Stein, and so on. Same goes for our exes. No two are the same even though they might both have BPD.

I notice you have a lot of questions about the pwBPD. Do they come back, do they stalk, do they secretly call, etcetera. Looking for commonalities. Looking to crack the code as it were. Could it be you're still very focused on your ex, what your ex thinks, did, does, will do, might do, and you are not yet focused on your healing?

I think my mind works differently than most people. It works in a way that stunts the healing process until everything makes sense.

[Hadlee]

Do you guys think it has to do with the age you first start dating the BPD

Your age, their age, your emotional development, theirs, where they are on the BPD spectrum, your character, theirs, your background, theirs, your genes, theirs. In short, as per usual, there is no 'one size fits all' answer. We NONs are all different. I'm very different from you, you're very different from Onceremoved, Onceremoved is very different from Penelope35, Penelope35 is very different from C.Stein, and so on. Same goes for our exes. No two are the same even though they might both have BPD.

I notice you have a lot of questions about the pwBPD. Do they come back, do they stalk, do they secretly call, etcetera. Looking for commonalities. Looking to crack the code as it were. Could it be you're still very focused on your ex, what your ex thinks, did, does, will do, might do, and you are not yet focused on your healing?

I think my mind works differently than most people. It works in a way that stunts the healing process until everything makes sense.

I agree SoMadSoSad.  My mind works the same as yours.  For me, it's important to make sense of what has happened

[WoundedBibi]

I get you want to make sense of it. We all do. The thing is, we never will. Not completely. They are mentally ill. We can never think like them. It will never make complete sense to someone who is not mentally ill.

[FannyB]

I understand where the guys are coming from. I got criticized previously for wanting to analyse everything. Unfortunately, that's the way I'm wired and now I have answers that satisfy me I am quite bored with my ex and her dysfunctionality and healed of sorts. 


Fanny

[WoundedBibi]

Oh I get it too. And it's not criticism so much but more concern; you can try to analyse someone forever but if they are ill and you are not I don't think you'll ever get it. You might get stuck.

I'm still trying to analyze some bits of him but I've moved on to analyze bits of the dynamics between us and analyzing me. So I can change me. As I cannot change my ex.

[FannyB]

Wounded Bibi

I agree we can get stuck and you're right to ask the question - but there is no onesize fits all template for healing. That's why some of us go back for second helpings and others don't. As long as someone is edging forward in terms of getting to the other side then that's fine in my book.

However, if they are asking questions about the disorder to find the magical formula that keeps their pwBPD locked in idealization mode so that they can live happily ever after with them - then I agree that ain't healthy at all!


Fanny

[once removed]

most of us to varying degrees, are "problem solvers". it plays into why many of us stayed. 2010 spoke to it in the bit with references to an "understanding driven" lonely child.

the relationships and their ending were traumatic for most of us. there is a certain need to make sense of what we have been through in terms of processing, like anyone grieving, and fortunately, there are answers. this is why it helps to seek out clinical information about the disorder. facts matter. theres not a question thats been asked on this forum that doesnt have a workshop, tool, article, something on the questions and resources board, or at least an insightful thread to answer it. most have been asked many, many, many times.

where we often get stuck is when, for example, we treat every story, every pwBPD that we read about, as our ex, and we end up with more questions than answers. does your pwBPD eat cheese? do they like pokemon? are they left handed? this doesnt help anyone process, just leads to group corumination, which feeds itself. i havent read the entire discussion from before this thread was resurrected, but it appears to have gone down that road. there really is no one size fits all answer. some of the most miserable and unstable relationships last the longest irrespective of BPD. some explode quickly. id boil it down to the two people involved and their needs.

We NONs are all different. I'm very different from you, you're very different from Onceremoved, Onceremoved is very different from Penelope35, Penelope35 is very different from C.Stein, and so on. Same goes for our exes. No two are the same even though they might both have BPD.?

all very true though ill admit i see, if not just as much, even more commonality between us than our exes. not that we are all, for example, codependent. if you date two different introverts, youll experience some commonality between two entirely different people. but that while there are similar patterns in our stories, and certain common behaviors, pertaining to our exes, there is a similar profile, a similar list of issues that apply, to varying degrees, to the vast majority of us.

the need to solve the puzzle for example

[bus boy]

I loved ex BPD wife very much. I am co dependant, my father was a good man but hard core old school, right off the farm, he could be rough around the edges, so I think I just fell into her mould very easy. I think the idealization phase was short to non existent bc I shared my fears of being alone, I was very easy pickings. I don't feel it was age, it was my willingness to take the blame for everything, let my self be bullied, manuplating,  she told me many times how gullible I was. It was all the stars were aligned for a perfect storm, she was hurricane BPD and I was empath island.

[jbkt16]

I just ended a 12 year marriage with my BPD ex. To answer your question  (just for my case anyway), he was always this way. He seemed to "hide it" better in the beginning. He would go longer being nice. I made excuses for him initially, by the time I realized how bad things were and that I needed out, we had kids. So as a mom it's not that easy to just "break up" the family. But as he became more and more abusive I started realizing that I was raising boys that would think abusing women was ok, and I knew it was time to go. Best decision ever... .