New day, same problem

[Think About It...]

I want to start with a quick off topic question.  Am I supposed to continue a thread if it's loosely related or start a new topic?  I apologize that I haven't been able to get through all the material on here and found where this might be addressed. Three kids at home and I have only moments here and there.  Sorry if I'm doing this wrong.

So I believe my H has traits of BPD and npd.  I'm new here but this site and the input has been extremely helpful.  One of the biggest things that I've come to realize as I've taken a step back is that for my uBPDh most issues seem to stem back to sex.  If he gets what he considers is enough, then he's less likely to rage about something else.  He has a short fuse about a lot of things, but it wasn't until I took a step back and thought about it that I realized just how many triggers there are.  Many if not most, I do NOT understand.  But when he gets a lot of sex, when he does get mad about something else, he does seem to calm down quicker and even apologize (not a true apology, but rather "his" apology, but hey I'll take it).

Sooooo, since so much seems to revolve around his sex desire, I questioned whether maybe he has a co-issue like sex addiction.  But I don't think that is the case as he doesn't cheat when he doesn't get "enough".  He does view light porn.  Maybe it's not even porn but seeking lingere catalogs and movies with nudity for the sake of those things.  I mean I can watch a movie if there's naked people, but I don't pick it for that.  He sometimes seeks it and keeps racy lingerie catalogs.  I have even heard some of his wants in the br and tried to give him these things within my comfort zone.  It seemed to be good for us.  But he was willing to treat me as a human and not just someone to use for sex, which in turn made me more willing to try new things.

When I do try to discuss the concerns I have when he rages at me about not fulfilling his needs, he turns it all around on me.  It all stems with the fact that I slept with someone else before him.  Before I even knew him.  To him, this is the one thing that totally ruins our marriage.  And it's what he uses when there is any sex issue discussion.  Not enough, not into it enough, don't talk enough during sex, talk too much during sex, made a little joke during sex, said the wrong thing, didn't move enough (sorry have you tried moving while a 200 pound man is on top of you), quantity, quality, and on and on and on.  I cannot win and frankly all this negativity regarding sex has been brought on by him and now I just associate sex with negativity. 

So last night I initiated the sex again and fine.  This morning he got up early and came back to bed for a quick romp.  Fine, but I was still half asleep and said one thing that he didn't like and he flew off the handle.  Screamed that nothing would ever change and left.

I know I will not hear from him today and while I normally will call him to try to calm down the situation, I don't even care to do that today.  I am just so tired of it all.  He relates sex to the validity of the r/s.  I am not saying that sex is not important, clearly it is, but he doesn't see how his rages make me not feel close to him.  If I try to explain he turns it into how close I must have been to my bf (over twenty years ago).  They were not friends but knew some of the same people and so some of the immature people told him stories that weren't even true, but that he's believed for all this time and I've only known that he believed it for a few years (or even knew that things/lies were told). Now he thinks I lied or didn't tell him things and that I'm only trying to "save" myself from his wrath.  If there is some minute detail I didn't tell him at the time either because I deemed it wasn't important or didn't think of it, but he found out, it would be the end of our marriage.

This is a tactic on his part but I've pulled away from so many people out of fear of losing my marriage if they were to say something that he might deem as significant but that I didn't tell him.  Mind you what he considers significant would not even register for most everyone else.

I'm just so tired of the drama but feel so trapped.  I don't have the energy.

I don't have anyone to talk to and feel like I don't even k ow what  a healthy sex life is anymore.  Maybe I never did.

I guess I'm not even asking a question but would love any thoughts about my situation.  Thanks.

[UnknownBPD]

I want to start with a quick off topic question.  Am I supposed to continue a thread if it's loosely related or start a new topic?  I apologize that I haven't been able to get through all the material on here and found where this might be addressed. Three kids at home and I have only moments here and there.  Sorry if I'm doing this wrong.

So I believe my H has traits of BPD and npd.  I'm new here but this site and the input has been extremely helpful.  One of the biggest things that I've come to realize as I've taken a step back is that for my uBPDh most issues seem to stem back to sex.  If he gets what he considers is enough, then he's less likely to rage about something else.  He has a short fuse about a lot of things, but it wasn't until I took a step back and thought about it that I realized just how many triggers there are.  Many if not most, I do NOT understand.  But when he gets a lot of sex, when he does get mad about something else, he does seem to calm down quicker and even apologize (not a true apology, but rather "his" apology, but hey I'll take it).

Sooooo, since so much seems to revolve around his sex desire, I questioned whether maybe he has a co-issue like sex addiction.  But I don't think that is the case as he doesn't cheat when he doesn't get "enough".  He does view light porn.  Maybe it's not even porn but seeking lingere catalogs and movies with nudity for the sake of those things.  I mean I can watch a movie if there's naked people, but I don't pick it for that.  He sometimes seeks it and keeps racy lingerie catalogs.  I have even heard some of his wants in the br and tried to give him these things within my comfort zone.  It seemed to be good for us.  But he was willing to treat me as a human and not just someone to use for sex, which in turn made me more willing to try new things.

When I do try to discuss the concerns I have when he rages at me about not fulfilling his needs, he turns it all around on me.  It all stems with the fact that I slept with someone else before him.  Before I even knew him.  To him, this is the one thing that totally ruins our marriage.  And it's what he uses when there is any sex issue discussion.  Not enough, not into it enough, don't talk enough during sex, talk too much during sex, made a little joke during sex, said the wrong thing, didn't move enough (sorry have you tried moving while a 200 pound man is on top of you), quantity, quality, and on and on and on.  I cannot win and frankly all this negativity regarding sex has been brought on by him and now I just associate sex with negativity. 

So last night I initiated the sex again and fine.  This morning he got up early and came back to bed for a quick romp.  Fine, but I was still half asleep and said one thing that he didn't like and he flew off the handle.  Screamed that nothing would ever change and left.

I know I will not hear from him today and while I normally will call him to try to calm down the situation, I don't even care to do that today.  I am just so tired of it all.  He relates sex to the validity of the r/s.  I am not saying that sex is not important, clearly it is, but he doesn't see how his rages make me not feel close to him.  If I try to explain he turns it into how close I must have been to my bf (over twenty years ago).  They were not friends but knew some of the same people and so some of the immature people told him stories that weren't even true, but that he's believed for all this time and I've only known that he believed it for a few years (or even knew that things/lies were told). Now he thinks I lied or didn't tell him things and that I'm only trying to "save" myself from his wrath.  If there is some minute detail I didn't tell him at the time either because I deemed it wasn't important or didn't think of it, but he found out, it would be the end of our marriage.

This is a tactic on his part but I've pulled away from so many people out of fear of losing my marriage if they were to say something that he might deem as significant but that I didn't tell him.  Mind you what he considers significant would not even register for most everyone else.

I'm just so tired of the drama but feel so trapped.  I don't have the energy.

I don't have anyone to talk to and feel like I don't even k ow what  a healthy sex life is anymore.  Maybe I never did.

I guess I'm not even asking a question but would love any thoughts about my situation.  Thanks.

[artman.1]

UnknownBPD,
     First, we need to say that sex just is not the real issue here.  Realizing the typical dynamics of the BPD behaviors, allows you to become mindfull of his triggers, and resultant BPD behaviors (Intimacy Issues, both Positive, and negative).  It is important to realize that this is not about you, but rather is about him.  Second, what is the most important thing to come to grips with is only about you.  What is his irratic and punishing sexual behavior doing to you, and how is it making you feel?
     I have had a, what I feel is similar, but opposite experience.  My UBPDW has denied all Intimacy, sex, hugs, kisses, and even holding hands for the last 36 years, of our 44 year marriage.  This behavior affects me, but is really all about her, and has nothing to do with me or my behavior.  The result of her behavior in this situation, has resulted in destroying the core of our RS.  The effect on me cannot be overlooked.  The only way for a man to get any sexual release is either cheat, or masterbate.  Of course, cheating is not a safe thing to do with the possibly of getting an STD present that cannot be undone, and could possibly be terminal in nature.  Thus the other release is preferred while still within this RS.  This brings up more mental problems and throws them on the denied person, resulting in a big whirlpool of disfunctional behaviors and needs that never get resolved.

Art

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board?]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Are you on the right board? This board is for analyzing and making the decision to either continue working on your relationship or to leave it. If you have already please advance to "L3 Leaving" or the "L4 Staying" board. All members living with a pwBPD should learn to use the Stop the Bleeding tools - boundaries, timeouts and other basic tools - to better manage the day to day interactions with your partner. If you have questions on any of the tools, feel free to go over to Staying: Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner and ask for help. :-)

[gina louise]

Unknown,
After a rage-fest (hours/days)the only thing that convinces my H that *we are OK* as a couple is make -up sex.

Ugh, usually the furthest from my mind, at that point. I can say NO if he's calmed down, say I'm too tired-and he usually accepts my decision even if it's negative.
He still wants to cuddle, though.  ?

I will never understand how he can flip-and then FLOP the other way so darn fast-while I am still processing the damage. First he wants me GONE/away /out of the marriage...then he wants me CLOSE.(as close as one can get). Baffling.

for me it's control...he has to know that I will still say OK/yes to him, even after what he says or does to me. oh. that sounds awful. Just reading it makes it seem like I am crawling back for more abuse... what keeps me here, for now- is that he's not 100% abusive.

for example-we have had several good weeks in a row, spent a lot of time together, no rages. not even a raised voice.
But he had a large project due on Monday..and became increasingly agitated over the past weekend. I believe it was his internal stress that was driving his behavior. He (finally) raged at me Sunday...with all the usual screaming, accusations and blame. By Tuesday/Wednesday...he's his usual friendly, supportive self again.

It's very cyclical...he stores his *feelings* or reactions reacts, erupts..then calms.

GL

[UnknownBPD]

Thanks artman.

We don't do PDAs either unless it's for the benefit of some specific person (this is the show I mentioned in another post by Gina Louise).  We don't very often do private PDAs either!  So I feel your pain here.

He blames me for the state of our sex life, but after all this time and criticizing me for everything (sexual or other) I really do have to work at it now.  I don't even know if I could have a normal r/s or even know what one looks like anymore.  Don't even know if I would try.

I think I'm just realizing that this will never change and am really feeling like I'd rather be alone (granted I'd have my kids, at least part of the time) than continue on this path.  He's eaten up all our money/savings and I am unemployed and would have a tough time managing.  He's vindictive and I worry that he would withhold support as a means of control.  But each day he loses it, it begins to look like the better option.

I know it's not really all about sex (he does have other triggers) and I know that it's both his way to control me and his release.  But I don't know if I want to be around it any more.  I just want peace and some normalcy.

And, just to be clear, I am neither a prude or promiscuous.  I think I'm just normal.  But after being called slut and whore when he rages and loses it if I say the wrong thing, Im just nit always that into it.  He's made it a turn off.  Not me.


And, I understand what you're saying about your r/s and I am sorry for all that you've been through.  I hope you find your peace and happiness.  Thanks again.

[artman.1]

UnknownBPD,
     What are PDA's? 
     My Therapist recently asked me, "What are you getting out of this Relationship?" and my answer is NOT very MUCH!  I am sure my codependence has held me in the RS, however, since I established Boundries to stop verbal abuse, things have really improved, still no intimacy, but improved.  I just cannot talk to her about anything of substance.She trips out and then is not receptive, or reasonable.  My only release will be to leave this RS.  I am weighing the differences between Living alone, Versus staying in the existing RS.  This is most definitly NOT a win-win situation for sure.  I had a disfunctional childhood with an Alcoholic father and a Codependent Mother.  So, I have had Disfunction in my life throughout my entire life.So 65 years of total INSANITY, with completely disfunctional Relationships, and the result is that I have never known or experienced true LOVE.  I so desparately want to experience that feeling.  I really don't know if I ever will, but I still have some hope.

Art

[UnknownBPD]

Hi artman.

PDAs are public displays of affection (also my joke of private because never at home either) meaning the hand holding, quick kiss, etc.

I am thrown by my H because he never seems to care if he goes, never needs rescuing, etc.  he rages about insignificant things but never has said he wants to come back.  I usually call him after he leaves and ask to talk it through.  He won't call me.  He has told me he will never come after me if I leave.  So sometimes I feel like the one with BPD because I just want to make it right.

Today he left totally enraged over a minor issue (minor to me, absolutely horrible to him).  He left without seeing me or saying good bye and now I notice he took some clothes and things with him so I don't know if he'll be back.  Normally I would have called or emailed him by now, but today I haven't.  I have no idea if I'll ever even see him again.  He has said if he leaves I'll never speak to him.  While it makes me sad to be here, I am so tired of all the games and drama.

And I'm so sorry your life has been so tough.  You deserve better but I do understand its been a long road and it's hard to decide between two less than ideal choices.  I wish you well.

[UnknownBPD]

Hi GL.

I feel the same.  I think my H is very reactive and explodes but often calms down.  It's exhausting though.

But if it's a true trigger, then it is a whole lot of work to get to a good spot.  He rages but as I mentioned never wants to come back.  Tells me if he leaves I will never hear from him again.  I have to ask him to come back.  It truly is like walking through a mine field.  What will set him off today.

I am terrified of having to raise three kids alone and financially support them as I have not held a real job in the twenty years we've been married.  I certainly can't afford anything near the lifestyle we currently have.  Am I doing them a disservice by leaving or not trying to get him to come home.  Should I put up with this so they can continue to have the things I won't be able to give them?

I know he'll have to provide some support but I don't think he'll do it without fighting every inch of the way.  I'm just exhausted from it all.

My H has no interest in cuddling which is what I want sometimes.  He has zero empathy for me or really anyone else.  It's all about how he feels and everything else is wrong.  Occasionally he'll play like he cares but pi** him off and then forget that.

I'm just tired of it all.  Am I wrong?

[UnknownBPD]

So had no contact with H yesterday which usually do email or call regarding whatever's going on with kids, etc.

He came home late which is also not typical.  I let him come to me which he also will never do if we have a disagreement/rage.  He had pulled himself together and spoke for ten minutes about his feelings.  I didn't interrupt and while I disagreed with a lot of what he said, I told him that I understood that was how he felt and that although I may not see it the same way, I respected that he was entitled to his own feelings.  He seemed to mostly accept this and remained calm.

He said a few things that I consider digs but I didn't react, instead I plan to give him what he wants.  Not to be involved with the details.  I've included him because he's usually the one who complains when he doesn't like my decision and we end up canceling or changing everything.  Now I'm just going to do it without him.  I realize that my consideration/respect for his feelings has snowballed into just reinforcing his bad behavior.  I don't know if I can unbreak his habits but I am going to do my best to detach myself from these situations.

I do feel I've enabled him and in hindsight it seems pretty clear.  Even from say commenting on the funny dress aunt Clara had on.  I would just chuckle but he would paint her black.  She makes terrible decisions (bad dress) and clearly should not be trusted to do anything right.  He's smart and savvy so it wouldn't be so obvious but at some point realizing that almost everyone was horrible and a select few were wonderful.  I think I just didn't understand how he really saw it because his words don't mean the same as mine.  No wonder the endless miscommunications.

Thanks for all the support.  One mini victory but a long way to go.

Hope everyone is faring well.

[artman.1]

All,
     After reading through these posts several times, I can see an aspect that has been brought out some by moderators as I read posts on these boards.  This is the result of not playing the game.  Generally as Nons, who are living with BPD's and NPD's we tend to be Codependent in varying degrees.  Codependents share the fear of abandonment with the BPD's in their lives.  Since Codependents need to save, or fix their partners, and deteriorating situations in their lives, we tend to chase our BPD partners when they get into intense emotional states and threaten to leave.  Us Codependents need to fix this, and just cannot help ourselves from chasing them.  This gives them the feeling of power, and exascerbates the problem.  I can see things changing here as when UnknownBPD stopped chasing, her H decided to stop threatening and came home.  It was very smart of her to allow him to save face like she did, so he escaped all the intense emotions of his behavior that was not enabled.  GOOD for YOU UnknownBPD. 
 
 
 

[UnknownBPD]

Thanks artman.

I hear you in so many posts about boundaries and I really stopped and thought about what I was willing to put up with.  The thought of this nonsense when I'm eighty is just too much.  I want peace in my life.  Life gives you so many ups and downs that I don't need a loved one intentionally inflicting constant upheaval.

I know I'll probably continue to make mistakes, but I see so many ways I have enabled this behavior.  When he felt soooo strongly about something I didn't see as such a big deal, I just relented but I see that that just reinforced his sense of entitlement and power over me.

I do NOT know what is going to happen and my feelings go back and forth but I feel a bit more in charge of my life and that gives me some hope, no matter what happens.

How are things with you?  Thanks again for your support.