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Author Topic: When enough is finally enough...  (Read 1540 times)
Cipher13
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« on: November 27, 2013, 09:30:27 AM »

When do you know when there is nothign left in the tank to contiue the relationship? For everyone that is different. I think I am there but a cloud still exists. So maybe a better question is "If i am feeling like I need to walk away what keeps that from happening?" 

My thoughts focus much more on the feeling of what it would feel like to not have this to deal everyday. My mind is so tired. Not just physically due to lack of sleep becasue of argueing into the wee hours on the night 2 days in a row. But it is emotionally drained. I have little love left I can express. I am not only able to reply to her with words. She can tell they are hollow empty words and promises that I just can't keep.  Why make them then... over many years its all I know how to stop the raging.  I'm on the edge at all times. I deleted some old voicemails and a number on my phone form an automated telamarketer that calls weekly. She looked over my phone ans saw I calle dthe voicemail. Then asked why I called voicemal. Told her about the call. She then spent th enext 30 to 40 mins going through the cell phoneproviders log of calls and texts on my phone. She says that deleting that is suspicious behavior. I said I deleted a voicemail its not a big deal... explative hits fan... Begin 6 to 7 hours of arguing.
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Cipher13
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2013, 10:46:22 AM »

I talked wife's mother today about whats happening. It went very well. Never did I cast blame or any sort of diagnosis. I said here is what is happening and here is how she is reacting and here is how I an reacting to that. She knew somewhat about the behavior and not so much onthe subject of the rages. She told me she knows that she struggles and has with somethings a lot like what I described. She told me her dad has commented to her about things my wife is doing based on his observation and said he would not let her get away with that. So its afirming to me that they see it. They have seen it before I was ever in the picture. So they feel for me.

I have there emotional support and thats all I was looking for.
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 11:06:48 AM »

I feel like I am moving to the same point.  My life for the past few months feels like me putting out small fire after small fire in hopes of stopping that flaming conflagration that I know is just under the surface.  I could keep on like this for a little while, because there are good times, too.  And I have outlets while I am at work, and am still managing to scrape a few minutes here and there for hobbies and such.

But the reality is that I no longer feel like myself.  I feel like my identity has been put into a cupboard for awhile as I am dealing with an endless list of her issues.  I didn't recognize how much I have lost until she went into the hospital for 10 days. People commented how much more I was smiling and how much more social I was.  My therapist reminds me of this - am I as happy when she is around as I am when she isn't around.  And I have to say "no".

I think that is what you need to be asking yourself.  Would you be happier 6 months from now if you were not with her?  Are you willing to be patient with her BPD and accept some of her behaviors as permanent, as long as she is working to change herself? 

I will also point out to be sure to not let these arguments last to the wee hours.  Tell her you need a break and that you will be back at a specified time.  and then go to your buddies house to vent and get away from the verbal abuse.   Being in an hours long argument with a BPD will make anyone feel like crap.
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allibaba
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2013, 11:10:01 AM »

Cipher,

When you get to this point - its the point that you have to put yourself first - period.

You can't fight for your relationship if you are drained.

Put on your oxygen mask - before helping others.

You may need to spend a weekend away from her... like planning to go see your family.  I know its hard, but taking care of yourself is the only way to survive these things.  Otherwise you end up running away because you don't have it in you to stand up to her.  Unfortunately if you just leave the relationship - you may always have questions about if you could have done more.

Still here for you man!
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Cipher13
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« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2013, 12:23:39 PM »

Quote
am I as happy when she is around as I am when she isn't around.  And I have to say "no".

I have thought about this to. My answer no also. I do small things for her that she can and should do liek get gift certificates for her employees. It allows me time to get out of the house even for couple minutes of alone time. Sad isn't it.
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Surnia
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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2013, 11:01:20 PM »

I had the same thing in the last period of my marriage, wishing my h would be out, not there, not coming back. So I started to think about changes that I can do.
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allibaba
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2013, 09:56:58 AM »

I had the same thing in the last period of my marriage, wishing my h would be out, not there, not coming back. So I started to think about changes that I can do.

I actually went through this as well.  There was a point in time when I was always planning so that I wouldn't spend too much time with my husband (like too many days in a row).  I thought if we were around each other less, then he would trigger less.  I was focusing on the symptoms of the diseases instead of the causes and actually making my husband feel more distant when what he really all he really craved was being close to me.
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Cipher13
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2013, 09:30:02 AM »

I'm finding that the more time we spend together the more I say things she thinks are hurtful and offensive. My example of this is last night. We were doing a lot of shopping and we were looking for 1 particular item all day. We finally found it and drove the store where it was. They were holding it for us at the door. We drove to the store and I jumped out with the keys ran inside and purchased it. She stayed int eh car with out dog.  So maybe someone can already see where I went wrong here... If not then here it is... I left her in the car and took the keys. Oops stupid habit of taking th ekeys with me. I was in the store for and actual minute and a half. She blasted me with "Thanks for leaving me in the car."  (Keep in mind she is with the dog and didn't have shoes and told me before I was just going in.)  I said I was only gone for a minute... Boom! Right there that comment is where I went wrong. I didn't realize it actuall has a hidden meaning. It means "I hate you and I left you on purpose. You don't matter to me. Its no big deal I could care less about you or your feelings."  The reason I know this is because that is what she told me it meant.  I wonder what other phrases mean that that I don't know about.
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Cipher13
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 09:40:13 AM »

I probably should already know the answer to this but here it is anyway:
Should I say something to someone maybe her mom or I don't know who else...
Wednesday night things were not going well. She was in a pretty bad rage. Said she hated me and all the usuall stuff I have heard before.  Then she went into what I refere to an unreality line of thinking where I know she may not mean what she is saying but it is not at all pleasant. Example of this before has been whre she wished I would die in a car accident or something of that nature. Usually those have been I meet a demise by some accidental or catostrophic cause or just don't come home.  This time she mentions wishing she had a gun to shoot me with.   I knwo she was not in a clear state of mind and she had applogized afterwords. But I'm not sure I can totally get past this.
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2013, 11:04:04 AM »

Wow, cypher.  I can certainly relate here.  A very similar thing happened to me last week regarding the store.  Actually, it has happened more than once.  I don't think you really did anything wrong regarding the store.  I think you just have to accept those incidents will happen and when she gets upset know that you did nothing to hurt her.  You can't constantly be worrying about every word and action or it will consume you, and there is no way you can modify your behavior enough to where she is never triggered because the triggers are just so random and come at unexpected times.

I don't know if you should say something to her mom, because it could come back to hurt you.  I've thought about saying something to my girlfriend's dad or friend or AA sponsor, but I don't because I see a potential for those people to not understand my concerns, and turn it back around in a way that could really hurt me.  I'd be extremely cautious, because her mom could get really defensive of her daughter, bring it up with her, and then her getting really angry at you.

The threats you mentioned are worrisome.  I've never gotten the "I wish you would die" comments, but I have gotten the  "I feel like punching you , but I didn't, and you should be happy that I controlled my rage."   But never, ever an apology for hurting me.  I'd take those threats seriously, because you never know how far she will take them during the next rage.

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Cipher13
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2013, 11:31:42 AM »

I will just keep my eyes and earss open and if anything happens again then a pattern can be established and at that point I will leave I think. I don't know what I am still doing here. I can keep calm and sane in any rage she throughs at me. I can keep my head but as soon as she starts to play the guilt card I can start to falter. Why when I know I am not being that way. 
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2013, 03:42:35 PM »

I wonder what other phrases mean that that I don't know about.

Cipher: That would be frustrating.  At the same time, you're walking on eggshells if you constantly analyze every one of your actions in an attempt to avoid triggering her... and that would be walking on eggshells.  Remember, you're dealing with someone who has a severe mental illness, so there is no rhyme or reason to the things that will set her off.  The healthier route is to act according to your principles, and if she gets triggered, oh well - it will happen regardless of what you do.

On the gun thing, that does seem a bit concerning, but probably not something I would consider a credible, imminent threat if I were on the receiving end.  My uBPDw only talks about/threatens killing herself, not me, and I have taken steps to hide the ammunition at our house so that she would not be able to use our gun while in a dysregulated state (we do own a handgun and it is legal in our country and state).  Still, if your wife's threats continue or if she buys a gun, it would be advisable for you to take steps to protect yourself although I'm not sure exactly what those steps would be as I have not been in that situation.
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2013, 08:19:33 PM »

Hi Cipher13,
It's been the same here. For me it's been happening constantly past 12 months. Personally, it rings through that it's never about why or what, but how they are feeling. I've been reading the resources on how to take time outs,setting boundaries, taking taking care of our self etc. They can't or perhaps won't change, but if in it for the long run, how to protect ourselves and same time not invalidate them. Putting our SO's priority first, some see it as walking on eggshells, is something that I've been learning. Once I asked her to wait while I went to ask for directions, as I didn't want her to walk around with me with her luggage. It turns out she felt that I didn't trust her and left her there by herself. What did she want? For me to tell her what I intended to do, and check with her if she felt ok waiting for me or wished to be with me. Understanding how she feels does take extra effort, communicating more and talking about the obvious is not natural for me. I think that what is obvious or normal for most of us, may not be for them, any hint that what they are feeling or doing is being invalidated, escalates the disregulation. It's child like emotions acting out, I'm not ok and nobody cares, cry out for attention... I have tried checking in sometimes; Are you ok? What can I do? But this needs to be done with some boundaries which I had been caught out before.
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Surnia
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2013, 05:43:36 AM »

 Welcome! Cipher

What about your plans visiting your family?

How about work? The changes you would like to do there?

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Cipher13
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2013, 06:25:11 AM »

Quote
What about your plans visiting your family?
How about work? The changes you would like to do there?

I think I have a better handle on work right now. As long as I can keep validaing her through out the day. I'd like to limit how much I need to do that but at least its no tvia texting just email. 1 step at a time.

Family I don't know. I want to visit them. This a a large center of my wife's fears and insecurities. She has said I made one of her biggest fears come true about 6 months ago or more. That was when I needed to go back to where my parents live to get a copy of my birth certificate for a passport for work. I didn't tell her about it to prevent and arguement. She thinks my parents will convince me to stay with them or they will take me from her. I didn't even see them. Just went to the courthouse and picked it up. She found out when she came home as I arived just before. I had to tell her the truth and she's been angry about that ever since.

I found a tid bit of info that probably doesn't really help but adds to the many pieced puzzle that is my life. My wife's sister who we know battles from some mental illnesses or at least she lieks to claim she does. She was complaining to my wife last night about the same things  or same issues she is having with her husband as my wife claims she has with me.  That would be I don't listen and have to be told everything to make her feel like I care because I can't do it on my own.
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allibaba
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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2013, 08:52:23 AM »

I wonder what other phrases mean that that I don't know about.

Cipher: That would be frustrating.  At the same time, you're walking on eggshells if you constantly analyze every one of your actions in an attempt to avoid triggering her... and that would be walking on eggshells.  Remember, you're dealing with someone who has a severe mental illness, so there is no rhyme or reason to the things that will set her off.  The healthier route is to act according to your principles, and if she gets triggered, oh well - it will happen regardless of what you do.

I can't emphasize this enough.  For me, this was the key to some relief from the bondage of my BPD relationship.
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Cipher13
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2013, 01:57:43 PM »

Quote
so there is no rhyme or reason to the things that will set her off.  The healthier route is to act according to your principles, and if she gets triggered, oh well - it will happen regardless of what you do.

Here lies where I find myslef struggling the most. This is what causes me the most grief. For crying out loud I go an email from her a few mins ago that wasn't emailing her enough today.

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Wrongturn1
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« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2013, 02:23:16 PM »

Here lies where I find myslef struggling the most. This is what causes me the most grief. For crying out loud I go an email from her a few mins ago that wasn't emailing her enough today.

You can't reason with an unreasonable person... if you emailed her too frequently, she would probably say the high volume of emails is suspicious and that you must surely be hiding something.

Maybe use SET (possible example below):

S(upport): "I care deeply for you and so your feelings matter to me."
E(mpathy): "It sounds like you are feeling upset b/c you feel like I'm not emailing you enough today.  That must be difficult, and I could see how anyone would be upset if they feel they are being ignored by their spouse."
T(ruth): "At the same time, I have a lot of responsibilities around here at work, so I may not always be able to email frequently throughout the day.  I miss you and cannot wait to see you tonight.  Love-ya, bye."
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allibaba
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2013, 12:15:57 PM »

Quote
so there is no rhyme or reason to the things that will set her off.  The healthier route is to act according to your principles, and if she gets triggered, oh well - it will happen regardless of what you do.

Here lies where I find myslef struggling the most. This is what causes me the most grief. For crying out loud I go an email from her a few mins ago that wasn't emailing her enough today.

Cipher in order to finally separate your issues from her issues, you at some point will have to stand up for your own principles.

The reason why people have such a hard time disconnecting from failed BPD relationships is that for them it is far easier to leave than to address their own role in it.  The problem then is that they never have the opportunity to fix their role and generally it resurfaces in another relationship down the line.

By safely standing up for what is right - you begin to free yourself from the bondage of self (codependence).  The only reason I can talk about this... is because over the last year I have done this.  Its simple but not easy, but I am sure that for some odd reason my marriage doesn't work... I know that my side of the street is clean and he's had every opportunity to clean up his act.

I'm sorry again for being blunt but you said that you appreciate that.

Alli
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allibaba
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2013, 12:17:38 PM »

But standing up for yourself does not have to be harsh.

It can be kind and loving.  Wrong turn has given you a good example of gentle SET where you communicate your truth in a loving way.
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Cipher13
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2013, 12:23:31 PM »

No it does not sound harsh. It sound very real and very importantly necesary. I guess I am tired of the fall out form it. Itd going to happen no matter what might as well be becasue I stood for something. If you don't stand for something then you will sit for everything.
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Wrongturn1
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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2013, 01:49:37 PM »

I'm hearing you that you're tired of the fallout.  The thing to keep in mind is that you'll get fallout from her no matter what you do (she has a severe mental illness; you can't expect anything different).  The path to better health for yourself is to act according to your own principles.  The fallout will still happen, but it will be much easier to look at that person in the mirror (yourself).
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Cipher13
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« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2013, 02:13:32 PM »

Quote
but it will be much easier to look at that person in the mirror (yourself).
Funny you say that. She has been telling me if I wanto know what all of the problems are from and why she can't trust me  and why she feels so horrible that I should look in the mirror. 
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Wrongturn1
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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 04:22:40 PM »

Quote
but it will be much easier to look at that person in the mirror (yourself).
Funny you say that. She has been telling me if I wanto know what all of the problems are from and why she can't trust me  and why she feels so horrible that I should look in the mirror. 

Well, unless she is standing in between you and that mirror, you won't see the problem (i.e., her).   grin  But seriously, my uBPDw has told me essentially the same thing, and that's certainly a crappy thing to hear from a spouse. 

The good news is that it's not true... it's just blame-shifting and abuse from a disordered person.  As nons, we can choose to accept the abuse and buy into their warped reality, or we can choose to set boundaries and walk away from that type of abuse.  There's a lot of power in choosing to break free from the old patterns that are not working. 
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Cipher13
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« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2013, 10:24:41 AM »

Speaking of old patterns...
The looking for jobs all over the place is happenign yet again. I have said before I would be suportive if that I found something that was as good or better but not right now. I think she just heard I am on board and thats it. I need to find out how to stop this. If she could find a different local job that would help.  The other would be if she had enough and just left when finding a distant job.  She said she wouldn't take a distant job unless I went at the same time. She is afraid I would never go. Maybe she has a point.

I see this boiling into yet another issue that is my fault that I actually have nothign to do with again.  I need to becareful what I promise and what I commit to. That has gotten me into trouble before.
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« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2013, 10:34:36 AM »

I think sometimes we let our fears get the better of us and over think things to try to figure out how to protect ourselves from what we fear, and in the process we fail to take strong enough steps and enforce clear boundaries that would be more effective at protecting us.

It's okay to tell her you like your job, you like the area you live in, and have no desire to move.

You've said before that her job hopping and moving around for new jobs has happened before on multiple occasions?  Why is that?  What's going on career wise that results in her wanting to move/change jobs frequently?
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« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2013, 10:42:56 AM »

  I need to becareful what I promise and what I commit to. That has gotten me into trouble before.

Yes, this is something you need to watch out for.  Does not matter what way you word it, it is set in stone.   I get caught out on "we will see what happens" or "maybe" or "we can try" as they translate to "I promise".
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Cipher13
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« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2013, 10:53:53 AM »

Quote
You've said before that her job hopping and moving around for new jobs has happened before on multiple occasions?  Why is that?  What's going on career wise that results in her wanting to move/change jobs frequently?

This job is the longest job she has held since before I met her. While her career has stayed in the same feild for the last several years. While we lived in a different state before and she was a teacher there. She made it through each school year but barley. Hated the work or hated the politics of the administration or you name it. Bottom line I believe to her happiness is just a better/new job away. Same for moving. Not happy here so must be happy elsewhere. 

Quote
I get caught out on "we will see what happens" or "maybe" or "we can try" as they translate to "I promise".

This has burned me many many many times over the years. Still does.
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campbellf2001
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« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2013, 01:50:04 PM »

It is very difficult to leave a BPD as you know. I was married to one for three years and it was a roller coaster ride to say the least. I was arrested after I called the police. (Woman with BPD don't hit right? ) Anyway I spent 7 days in jail and STILL I came back for more abuse. (She has an industrial  strength recycle.)We finally got a divorce on the 21st of November. I was hoping that would end it but you must remember that it will continue, I am finally putting my foot down and I am not going to give in. OH hell it is not easy but how much more of your life do you want to give this person? 
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« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2013, 10:05:30 PM »

Here is a thought to help you fight the fear of sending her off into the next dysregulated rage:

She goes into dysregulated rages all the time. How many years have you been trying to do the right thing and prevent them? It doesn't work.

But here is the good part: You have survived all these rages. You can survive one more. It is easier if you walk away early. It is also easier to walk away when you know you are living up to your principles and your values, instead of trying to walk on eggshells.

Now is time to take care of you. Once you do that, you will be strong enough to have options with her.

 Empathy GK
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