No win situations and how to handle

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, once again I'm presented with a no-win situation. uBPDh has told me he'll divorce me(his favorite threat) if I don't attend today's therapy session with his daughter. I was advised by two therapists that this was a bad idea for me to go, but I feel I have little choice. If I don't go, I'll be told I don't "try"(when all I've done with his mean girls is try), and if I go, I am pretty sure it will go badly. See, no-win for me here.

I really don't think my husband's therapist is going to be fair in this. The last session I went to, I wasn't happy with how it went. We attended marriage therapy with this same therapist, and while I liked her, and could see she was trying with uBPDh, she got absolutely nowhere with him. It was all me compromising, her trying to get him to compromise, him pretending in therapy like he understood what she was trying to get him to see, then he'd go home and act like the devil with me. I quit going, because it was just too frustrating. To him, therapy is just a big b___ it out session, he doesn't see you actually have to do the work, make an effort and really listen, not just talk.

My uBPDh has been seeing this therapist for three years, and he's gotten way worse, and he comes home from therapy with ideas that are very PRO HIM, and it makes MY situation worse. I've given in and compromised, and put myself in so may "bad for me" situations, for him and our marriage, that I just can't keep doing that.

How do you address these constant no-win situations that people with BPD put you in? I'm really scared about doing this today.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[InSearchofMe]

So sorry you are going through all of this.   What I had to start doing was whatever was right for me.  It sounds like no matter what you do he will not be happy.  Although it was scary to do at first, I quit giving in to the threats.  If he is going to throw a fit, I just let him.  But I had to stop reinforcing that making threats will get him what he wants.  Because when I give into them that is what I am doing.

[Samuel S.]

Ceruleanblue, I completely understand your frustration with such a situation, like it seems it is "them against you". I also completely understand your not wanting to attend the counseling session.

I would like to make a possible suggestion. What if you attend the counseling session, and what if you say exactly everthing or something like what you have posted here? Seeing that it is supposed to be couple counseling, if your BPDh is only talking and if the counselor is only talking, that is the "them against you". If you express how you continue expressing how you feel, maybe, it will sink it with the both of them that there is a problem that needs to be resolved. If it gets you nowhere quickly, then, I suggest getting a new couple counselor. He can keep his counselor, but it is important for you as a couple to be completely equal and helpful for one another. If he is not willing to go to another couple counselor, then, it is best for you to go by yourself. What do you think?

Frankly, seeing that he has seen this counselor for such a long time, it sounds like this counselor is only seeing his side without truly understanding the complete picture. BTW, my BPDw's "counselor" who is a "medium" definitely hates men. While my BPDw has felt better about herself, she has told me "there is no us at all". So, it sounds like you and I are being harpooned by these counselors. At least, I feel that way.

Take care, my friend! 

No matter what, please know that we all care about you. Also, my BPDw refuses to go to couple counseling with me whatsoever. She says that she has too many issues to deal with. At least, you are lucky in one respect. At least, you two have attended couple counseling. We only did it once, and that was some 8 years ago.

[funfunctional]

Sounds like you are dealing with step child(ren).  OY!    My sympathy card is in the mail on that one.    I have two of my own and two step children.  There is a site out there for step parent support that is very helpful.   Google it.  Steptalk?

I totaly hate that your husband dangles the "divorce" threat to motivate you to do something you are uncomfortable doing.  That is awful.   Right there would get my back up to say "NO".

You are right. It is a "no win".   I understand.  I have been in a lot of "no win" situations with my step children.   But you don't have to win.   

First off:  the counselor may be very jaded.  I find when it comes to kids many counselors believe everything the kids say and get this completely ridiculous perception of a situation.    We had this counselor I hated!   I went to her with my husband seeking help in dealing with my step-son.  He had already been going to her.  This woman was nasty and out right  rude to me.     I didn't stand a chance.    God knows what this fkd up kid told her about me.   What she didn't know is that the kid is the one with the issues.     

I read another poster that suggested going.    So that could be a choice.  Go and speak your mind!     

But not mine to make.   But I totally understand what you mean by NO WIN and I have had to build a brick wall around me and I stay out of the step kids stuff going on.  I literally walk out of a room to avoid conflict.    Can't be bothered wasting the energy.


Best of luck!

[MaybeSo]

a well trained therapist would be aware of the dynamics of this situation and either feels confident she may have the skill to help

or,

she shouldn't be suggesting this kind of meeting at all.

therapy isn't about ganging up on one family member as though they are the sole problem.

family systems trains therapists to recognize that no one member is the sole problem, the system is the problem and all members contribute in their own way to the dynamic of the family system. no therapist with any skill or decent training 'gangs up' on one family member. if that actually happened... .leave immediately. what would be the use of that? a person who feels ganged up on will be much less likely to see their own contribution to the dynamic, so change would be very unlikely. so what would be the therapeutic value? none!

when in therapy, and it's our turn to reflect on our part, it can certainly feel like we are being ganged up on... .a good therapist works really really hard to create safety as much as possible for everyone in the room... .the therapist is hoping to help a family have a successful experience dealing with difficult stuff... .

if you really feel you are being ganged up on... .excuse yourself and leave.

but no growth happens without some discomfort... .

good luck.

[MaybeSo]

one more thing... .

legally and ethically... .

therapists do not do family or couple work where domestic violence is an issue. it is considered unsafe ... .therapy can be triggering and potentially bring up feelings of shame etc., the egos of the those involved in couples or group work have to be strong enough to handle and cope with difficult emotions without threat of violence. otherwise it shouldn't be done. it's too dangerous if DV is an issue.

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, that is funny you would mention that because domestic violence has been an issue a couple times, and our therapist is aware of it. It hasn't happened in quite a while, but still, it did happen. I think my uBPDh, knows I'm done putting up with that aspect.

And as another poster above mentioned, I have been on StepTalk for about a year. Wow, those people on there can be VICIOUS. For every nice person, there are about four who take their own bitterness, and anger out on you. I stopped blogging there for now, just because of that. They don't understand the whole BPD aspect, and just tell me to RUN, and they say hateful things like I only stay so I don't have to get a job, and crap that is totally not true, and only hurtful.

My step kids are all adults, so I really never thought we'd be dealing with all this nightmare. I think the therapist is up to dealing with my husband's daughter, but our "one session" has turned into two, because at last meeting, we didn't all meet... .it was done two by two, and I didn't have to be around step daughter other than in the waiting room.

Of course she wouldn't answer me when I spoke to her. I guess my uBPDh addressed that with his daughter when he met with her and the therapist. He too felt it was rude.

So now I have to dread next weeks meeting, and I can tell step daughter clearly doesn't really want to reconcile and be nicer, if she can't even speak to me? I have enough drama and trouble dealing with uBPDh, I really don't need all this added step kid drama.

I'm really seeing that these personality disorders seem to have a genetic factor. I feel I married into a hornet's nest. I wish I could skip next week's "session". It truly is a "no win" for me, no matter what I do. At least I think the therapist is going to keep everything from becoming too ugly... .

[sweetheart]

Hello Ceruleanblue ,

I've been thinking about your post for a while. I said before that your husbands presentation resonates greatly with me. My post is really to repeat what MayBeSo has said about DV, it is very unusual for a therapist to go ahead when that is part of someone's history. You say the therapist knows about it, it raises concerns for me that you don't feel secure or held in the therapy process. Yes therapy is difficult, but fear and anxiety are about your own process and shouldn't really be about the potential fall-out from others within the context of the session or after it. Therapy should feel like a safe environment for all involved, part of the therapists role is to ensure this.

How about you give yourself another session, see how it goes and how you feel during and after. Your husband seems to be triggered no matter what, so can you do what you want, which sounds like you don't want to go, and that's absolutely fine. You have a huge amount going on in your life at the moment all directed at you, and if this therapy isn't helping you at the moment then you don't have to go.

When I allowed myself to actually realise that I could leave situations including my marriage, that I could be on my own, divorced, living a life without my husband I was able to invest in staying, there was a shift inside me that changed my relationship. I know you are scared of divorce and life without your husband, but that is what keeps you stuck emotionally and physically in this abusive power dynamic with him, he knows it too. I was terrified of being on my own without my husband and I tolerated way more than I should have done, but not anymore. I am still scared, but I am no longer stuck.

Be kind to yourself CB, his ultimatums about threats of divorce keep you in a no-win situation, and you are worth more than that. You are strong and kind and capable - look at what you have been dealing with and posting about. Having said all of that, none of this is easy and whatever you do make sure you keep yourself safe.