"Fight for me"?

[ImWrecked]

So this past weekend, my partner got so "fed up" with me, that she announced that she was moving into the guest bedroom.  She said she needed "space" and time to have her emotions.  She says that I don't want to hear about any of her emotions so she needs to have a place to herself to feel them, and cry or whatever.  SO... .pleads with me to agree... .So I said that if that was something she felt she needed then she should do it... .but that I did not like or agree with it.  She said I have made her feel like she can't say anything and actually used the term "walking on eggshells" to which I did a double take and had a What the heck moment in my head... .(Didn't I read somewhere that pwBPD have a tendency to turn what is happening to us around and say they are feeling that way?)  Kinda confused about that... .I feel like I am the one walking on eggshells... .

Anyway... .so the next morning she was upset with me because all I would have had to say was that I would just hold her while she crys or whatever - that she would not even have to say anything, that I would just BE there for her... .she said she just wanted me to fight for her!  I don't understand this - it's not the first time she's done that... .she says she is leaving or doing something like this and then if I go along with what she wants, says she was just trying to see if I'd fight for her?   

So I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced the "fight for me" game?

[Vexed]

Well, thanks for making me feel better.  My credit crazy ex used those exact words when she broke up with me.  I want you to "fight for me" if you loved me you would.  Funny thing is this is the same girl that got me stabbed in the past physically fighting for her. 

[Reforming]

H Vexed,

I've tried the "fight for me" and it's a dead end. If you remove the "for" and replace it with "with" you get a clearer picture of the likely outcome.

In the early days mine got me into a couple of tussles as well and when I learned better she would subtly deride me for not being a real man.

We're not living in caves. Healthy people don't need you to fight for them to prove your love.

Reforming

[hergestridge]

She's not happy until she's managed to pick a fight with you. My xwife's therapist told me that many of her BPD clients feel release after a fight.

[Mutt]

Hi ImWrecked,

I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you are currently having in your relationship. She's detaching from you in the home and going into a guest bedroom. It's tough.

She said she needed "space" and time to have her emotions.  She says that I don't want to hear about any of her emotions so she needs to have a place to herself to feel them, and cry or whatever.

A core mechanic of BPD is the push / pull behavior. A fear of abandonment / fear of engulfment swing. She is feeling engulfed and says she needs "her space" it's the push behavior. She's also throwing up Guilt in FOG (fear obligation guilt) when she is making you feel like she needs to go into another room to and cry. Your confused and it tugs at the heart at the same time.

She said I have made her feel like she can't say anything and actually used the term "walking on eggshells" to which I did a double take and had a What the heck moment in my head... .

Projection is very confusing when the things that your SO does gets turned around and projected on you. We all project subconsciously but a pwBPD do this to the extreme. It's taking her negative emotion or action and attaching and attributing it to you. She's the one that is making you "walk on eggshells" and there are feelings of guilt and shame attached to that and she's projecting it. My ex was similar but she said it differently "Mutt you're emotionally exhausting!". I was confused and I started to believe that I was the bad person in the relationship because I was in the FOG. In reality I was the one that felt emotionally exausted - always during her black splits - she was projecting herself on me.

(Didn't I read somewhere that pwBPD have a tendency to turn what is happening to us around and say they are feeling that way?)

You're correct. It's called projection and this article will explain: BPD BEHAVIORS: Projection

I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced the "fight for me" game?

She wants to be rescued. She sounds like a BPD Waif. I quoted one of the articles we have to articulate "rescuing" because I think it describes it best.

It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and she is a drowning woman. But she drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull her out of the turbulent sea, feed her warm tea and biscuits, wrap her in a comfy blanket and tell her everything is okay, she suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And, no matter how many times you rush to the emotional - rescue, she still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder

How a Borderline Relationship Evolves

[seeking balance]

So I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced the "fight for me" game?

I could have written your post word-for-word.

The book, "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" is applicable for a reason... .I am sorry you are finding yourself in this situation.

I have not looked at your opening post, but as you are on the undecided board - look to the right, choosing a path.  Stopping the bleeding and taking yourself out of conflict is very important and very difficult.  What I found was both my ex and I had become so accustomed to the conflict and tension that not having it became uncomfortable.

Is your partner in T of any kind and are you?

[patientandclear]

I did fight for my r/s for a while after my ex said it needed to be over. There is no doubt that he loved that I did that! But he didn't agree to return. He wanted more begging and wanting from me, it seems.  And when I finally conceded defeat and said "ok, if you really feel that way, you're right, we shouldn't go any further," he suddenly changed his tune. Suddenly he  was very frustrated with me that I didn't want to talk (I had begged to talk) and it was as if the breakup was this terrible thing I'd done to him.

Sometimes pwBPD want you to do X just so they can enact a compulsive exercise of maintaining control. You want them, they say no ... .It feels relatively good to them.

When he and I spent some time post-r/ship as close friends, he said he liked that I would say yes if he asked me to do something. But he wondered if I would ask him, too. Sure, I said; seemed like a reasonable request in a healthy r/ship, even though I'd been guarding against rejection by waiting for him to initiate.

So I put on my big girl pants and asked him to do something. A few times. And he said ... .No. (Mind you, he then asked me to do something else a day or so later, so the rejection was ameliorated, but nonetheless ... .). See? He did want me to ask him -- so he could say no.

[FindingWings]

She said I have made her feel like she can't say anything and actually used the term "walking on eggshells" to which I did a double take and had a What the heck moment in my head... .?.

I have heard this same reference at least a 1/2 dozen times! My gfwBPD stopped in to see me this weekend on her way out of town. She had informed me the night before we split up about her diagnosis. Now she says I misunderstood. No, I didn't. You're familiar with the pwBPD rewriting the script, right? I mean, its certainly not behavior exclusive to BPD but... .anyway. I believe now the book has been, at the very least, examined by her and is likely among the titles in her family home library. Or possibly even recommended to her or a family member.

We talked about counseling going forward if we stay together. She said she'd let me know when she returns. I can hardly wait.

[Huh?]

Wow, count me in as being able to write this exact same "fight for me" post too.

Wow.  A few minutes ago, I was feeling really down and I was going to come on here and start a thread about just the pure insanity of how my relationship ended with my upbd waif ex fiance.  Tonight I felt like I should have tried harder.  But seeing your post, reminds me of the disorder and that I am not alone. 

My ex fiance too, after she kicked me out of the house, told me a few days later that I didnt value our relationship because I should have "fought" for her.   I was so confused.  She also accused me of making her "walk on eggshells"  

Well, eventually I did try and fight for her and our relationship for four months... .as in try and make compromises, work out issues she had with the relationship... .up until I gave up totally exhausted 4 weeks ago.  It was seriously, the most intense and maddening experience.  It was all one sided.  No matter what I did to try and prove my love, nothing, NOTHING was enough.  

Perfect example, while we were "working things out" over dinner one evening, I told her I had saved up (our previously agreed upon) wedding budget on my own during our separation... .I thought she would be happy, she just looked at me with a frown on her face and said, "Its not enough".  I said, "But we agreed on this amount!"  She said, "No, we didnt... .anyway, you dont want to marry me, youre all talk"... . WHAT?  Madness!  

[Caramel]

WOW!

So I was not the only one! 

My partner used the exact same words!

Very confusing and frustrating. He asked me to fight for him and I wanted to fight for him but I just didn't know what it was that he wanted me to do exactly?  And then he blamed me for not trying. "Are you trying? Are you trying now? Is that the best you can try?"   

He would fight with me and left me. I would text him to try to fix things!

He would say "I'm not a text person. You know that."   

I would go "OK, can I call you?".   

He would say "No."   

I said " Can I see you to talk to you in person?"

He said "NO!"   

And then he said "Is that it? You gave up? Is that the best you can try? "


The last time we broke up he asked me to leave the country coz my presence was just too much for him and he wanted to move on. He dropped me at the airport himself while I was in tears. When I called him to say that I had landed, he said "you would have stayed and would have fought for me if I mattered to you!"

Those mind games left me with a lot of shame and guilt to deal with. Made me think that if I tried harder I could change things. And then I got mad at myself for not knowing what to do and for ruining the relationship.

I know how that feels ImWrecked. Sigh...

[hergestridge]

When they do things like this and ask us to "fight for them" it's a rather outspoken way to test us.

Let's be a frank, a sane person would not tolerate this.

What they are saying is "I am now being difficult on purpose and I expect you to try your best to please me". When my daughter does that I tell her to stop it and get real, and she does. My BPDxw never got it.

My wife stopped doing that stuff after the first few years of our 20 year relationship, but towards the end it surfaced that she always expected me to do just that. They can't handle close relationships. It brings out the three year old in them.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

She's not happy until she's managed to pick a fight with you. My xwife's therapist told me that many of her BPD clients feel release after a fight.

Move this to the bedroom and you've got my life... .It seems like she comes up with tests, pick a fight and then see if I still want sex afterwards.

Before finding out about BPD I would tell her that these fights aren't foreplay for me... .guess I had it partially figured out. :'(

[ImWrecked]

Thank you all for your responses... .honestly - just knowing that this isn't unique to my r/s is so helpful... .things have been so bad lately that I feel like I'm going crazy myself... .I don't know what to do anymore. 

Thank you for clarifying projection and reminding me of it.  Sometimes I feel like I'm in some kind of freak show or something - I just can't grasp what is going on or being said.  The versions of what I supposedly said that are usually almost completely opposite of what I actually said blow my mind and are so thouroughly confusing that I literally feel like I'm losing my mind.  I was told last night "Say what you mean!" because I'm constantly put on the defense, and try so hard to explain what I was saying, that she feels that I am not communicating, or lying, or confused... .whatever... .endless things... .[/quote]
Is your partner in T of any kind and are you?[/quote]
I just started T on my own.  I was told by my uBPD Partner that I needed therapy to work on my inability to communicate effectively.    I jumped on the chance because I'd been wanting/considering going to therapy by myself for a while but didn't know how to do it w/o causing a big argument.  Anyway... .once I went to my first session (only one so far), my partner told me she didn't think it was a good idea anymore for me to go at all... .because I would not tell her what I discussed in my session.  I told her therapy was a private thing for people and that I would not talk about everything that was said.  She heard me say "I have secrets and they are none of your business".  So now does not want me to be going.  I'm going to continue anyway.  I know I need it. 

My T asked me to try to bring my partner to a session or two, but she refuses.  We'd tried therapy a year or two ago together, but after a few sessions she started cancelling - too tired, too busy... .etc... .She refuses to go with me, and refuses to go alone.  She says that she knows what will happen if she goes alone... .if she tells what is going on the therapist will tell her to pack her bags and leave.  She also says that they may tell me that same thing... .which I suspect is at the heart of the reason she does not want me to go.

I can't thank you all enough... .

[hergestridge]

And right there you have the psychology behind a lot of abuse in this world.  A destructive cycle is driven by a person who only knows one way to connect, and that is to re-connect after increasingly brutal rejections/separations/conflicts.

She's not happy until she's managed to pick a fight with you. My xwife's therapist told me that many of her BPD clients feel release after a fight.

Move this to the bedroom and you've got my life... .It seems like she comes up with tests, pick a fight and then see if I still want sex afterwards.

Before finding out about BPD I would tell her that these fights aren't foreplay for me... .guess I had it partially figured out. :'(

[swiftkick]

After a huge rejection and separation my BPDh tells me I was supposed to stop him from leaving (after he has accused me of who knows what and called me several derogatory names).  I failed that test many times, apparently.

[seeking balance]

So now does not want me to be going.  I'm going to continue anyway.  I know I need it. 

Good deal 

There was a time when I was not sure which one of us what "crazy" and the truth, we both were.  Whether you end up a stayer or a leaver - therapy for you is exactly the right course so you can figure out your emotions, your boundaries and your needs.

These relationships can become so enmeshed that we no longer trust the sky is blue or the grass is green - because, sometimes, they are not 

Keep posting, keep reading and definitely keep going to therapy.

Peace,

SB

[OutOfEgypt]

Have I experienced it?  Yes.  And it is a game.  It's what happens when you are in a relationship with a person who is self-consumed and expects you to revolve entirely around their needs and be the custodian of all their happiness.

From experience, the first thing I thought of when I heard "I need space" is that she is having an affair, or thinking of it.  Just my take from having been there a number of times.  While I was busy "giving her space", she was busy chatting it up with someone else.  Of course, it's also pretty clear that in your case she is basically crying for you to swoop in and "rescue" her, and she is doing it in classically regressed ways.  Didn't you know?  You are supposed to not only read her mind but do everything to make sure she never feels bad and always feels happy?  And then when she discovers again that you cannot do that, because no human can, she will punish you and blame you more.  It's quite lovely.

And the moment you agree to "fight" for her in the way she demands, you are adopting and validating her warped, one-way, self-centered perception of the relationship, while affirming her control.

[Caredverymuch]

Thank you all for your responses... .honestly - just knowing that this isn't unique to my r/s is so helpful... .things have been so bad lately that I feel like I'm going crazy myself... .I don't know what to do anymore. 

Thank you for clarifying projection and reminding me of it.  Sometimes I feel like I'm in some kind of freak show or something - I just can't grasp what is going on or being said.  The versions of what I supposedly said that are usually almost completely opposite of what I actually said blow my mind and are so thouroughly confusing that I literally feel like I'm losing my mind.  I was told last night "Say what you mean!" because I'm constantly put on the defense, and try so hard to explain what I was saying, that she feels that I am not communicating, or lying, or confused... .whatever... .endless things... .

Is your partner in T of any kind and are you?[/quote]
I just started T on my own.  I was told by my uBPD Partner that I needed therapy to work on my inability to communicate effectively.    I jumped on the chance because I'd been wanting/considering going to therapy by myself for a while but didn't know how to do it w/o causing a big argument.  Anyway... .once I went to my first session (only one so far), my partner told me she didn't think it was a good idea anymore for me to go at all... .because I would not tell her what I discussed in my session.  I told her therapy was a private thing for people and that I would not talk about everything that was said.  She heard me say "I have secrets and they are none of your business".  So now does not want me to be going.  I'm going to continue anyway.  I know I need it. 

My T asked me to try to bring my partner to a session or two, but she refuses.  We'd tried therapy a year or two ago together, but after a few sessions she started cancelling - too tired, too busy... .etc... .She refuses to go with me, and refuses to go alone.  She says that she knows what will happen if she goes alone... .if she tells what is going on the therapist will tell her to pack her bags and leave.  She also says that they may tell me that same thing... .which I suspect is at the heart of the reason she does not want me to go.

I can't thank you all enough... .[/quote]
Joining the crowd on experiencing the fight for me constant theme.  When I met my expBPD he told me he always wished his then ex now current again partner would fight for him.  He would say things like " what would you do if anything ever happened to me " and yearn for that desperate response. He said he always wanted someone to love him that way.  The way that showed him how valued he was.  So, I did. Bc he was extremely valued by me. And I would often say to him how awful life would be if he were not in it.  I showed him happily and freely how much he meant to me in every way. From my heart. 

He continually upped the ante to the point of craziness.  It was truly like what more on earth could I say or do to prove my love.  The things I did for that man.  I've never been bought to that extreme by anyone even my children.

When he would d/d and split me upon recycle he would project and say I didnt need him. I was going yo leave him. He was sure of that. I would find another. I was better than him.  I was cheating on him. 

Nothing I could say or do would reverse this scenario. And I desperately tried to reason with him.  Bring him back to reality.

This last thing I said to him was that I had done everything humanly possible to show my love, which was very genuine, for him. What more could I do?

He left me. Went back to the ex who apparently never showed him what he yearned for. 

Its insane behavior.

[hergestridge]

When we had our first child there certainly wasn't time for crap like that anymore. Once my wife realized that she was devastated. She started throwing tantrums and I told her it's best that she leaves the house and comes back when she's done. She refused, so I took the child and left the house once she started making a scene.

There was only one person I was going to "fight for" and that was our daughter.

Of course my wife left me, but I really feel I did the right thing.

[ImWrecked]

And the moment you agree to "fight" for her in the way she demands, you are adopting and validating her warped, one-way, self-centered perception of the relationship, while affirming her control.

Exactly right... .I need to remember this too!  I usually find myself just doing anything I can think of to get to the "other side" of the situation... .but I am starting to realize that is not healthy or good either.  Well, NOTHING about this r/s is 'healthy'... . 

[Caredverymuch]

And the moment you agree to "fight" for her in the way she demands, you are adopting and validating her warped, one-way, self-centered perception of the relationship, while affirming her control.

Exactly right... .I need to remember this too!  I usually find myself just doing anything I can think of to get to the "other side" of the situation... .but I am starting to realize that is not healthy or good either.  Well, NOTHING about this r/s is 'healthy'... . 

Excellent thread.  Uncanny how similar if not identical our scenarios are.  Reading these comments provides immense desensitization. Thank you

[ImWrecked]

From experience, the first thing I thought of when I heard "I need space" is that she is having an affair, or thinking of it.  Just my take from having been there a number of times.  While I was busy "giving her space", she was busy chatting it up with someone else. 

I've recently started to wonder about this too - not because of any specific behavior from her, but just from all I've been reading about this disease.  She has pretty much over the course of our entire 14 year  relationship accused me of cheating off and on... .so, now learning about projection, it makes me wonder if she is actually cheating or doing something that I would see as a betrayal... .I don't know

[Heartandsole]

Plus one.  Right now I have told my uBPDw that I don't have anymore energy to work on our marriage and she keeps coming back at me with ":)ivorce is for people who don't love eachother, and you've told me you still love me"  and the ol' "Why are you not willing to fight for our marriage".

A MAJOR issue in our r/s has that she doesn't feel that I "fight for her" against the perceived threats of the evil mother-in-law.   She says "Stand up for me" against various people.  Truth is, she's so aggressive on her own and  often times what she is railing against, I don't see as something to "fight about" so therefore I have to choose to not be authentic and put on a front to "Fight for her" (lose some more self respect), or handle myself how I feel appropriate and take my lashings for "Not been a man, but a weak Pu**y".  Lovely I know.

Also to echo other posts above, she found my old username on this forum via spying in my email and that is how she learned I was looking into BPD... .  She got her own username and her first post was about "How she can learn how to stop walking on eggshells" around my family. 

My family has been Walking AWAY on eggshells because a r/s with her is soo hard to have!  I agree.

[ImWrecked]

she found my old username on this forum via spying in my email and that is how she learned I was looking into BPD... . 

Ohh, that's a terrifying thought!

[hergestridge]

A MAJOR issue in our r/s has that she doesn't feel that I "fight for her" against the perceived threats of the evil mother-in-law.   She says "Stand up for me" against various people. 

This is very familiar. In the first couple of years of our rs I bought into all the bull about how stupid all the people around her were, but for the next 18 years I refused to take part in the wars she fought against various people around her.

I really thought it would be better with age, because the tendendcy towards b/w thinking that I had in my 20 certainly faded through the years. But by her mid 30 my wife found her soulmates in her little cirlcle of girls at her workplace who always pat eachother on the back when they eachother stories of perceived injustice. It seems that people who really get to know her doesn't "stand up for her".

[HowCouldYou]

One of my biggest What the heck moments was when my BPDW said it to me just after I caught her cheating via cybersex with thousands of men. " You need to fight for me" Really, fight who, why, and how?   How about, "I will fight to repair the damage I have done to you and our marriage"

[Wrongturn1]

Yep, I've heard the "fight for me" line in those exact words.  It's bizarre how so many of them read from the same script.

[seeking balance]

I've recently started to wonder about this too - not because of any specific behavior from her, but just from all I've been reading about this disease.  She has pretty much over the course of our entire 14 year  relationship accused me of cheating off and on... .so, now learning about projection, it makes me wonder if she is actually cheating or doing something that I would see as a betrayal... .I don't know

I can understand how you may be questioning her behavior after reading stories here.  As someone who found themselves on that path as well, I wanted to share a bit more on BPD itself as it refers to cheating in the hopes of helping you depersonalize a very personal hurt.

Cheating (if it occurs) is another maladaptive coping tool in a very broken emotional coping tool belt.  Another person is a new mirror of the "good" from someone who feels extreme shame, fear and abandonment more times that  we even realize.

I'mWrecked - you are on the undecided board, this is a hard place to heal from - choosing a path is really important - where do you see yourself when you look to the stages on the right in deciding a direction?

[ImWrecked]

I'mWrecked - you are on the undecided board, this is a hard place to heal from - choosing a path is really important - where do you see yourself when you look to the stages on the right in deciding a direction?

Mostly I see myself getting out of the relationship.  BUT we have so much history, and I'm just recently coming to the realization that this is BPD.  So, that being said, I'm still working through some of my feelings about that.  I will continue on with therapy, and hopefully the combination of that, this board, and whatever else comes - will help me to make the decision.  It's very hard to think about leaving, or ending this relationship. 

When I discovered the book "Walking on Eggshells", it was such a tremendous relief to me, but very shortly after that, I came to a very depressing realization that BPD is ALWAYS going to be there.  So it is causing me to take some very hard looks at myself, and try to figure out if I am willing to stay in a relationship like that for the rest of my life or not... .(especially when I look at how her parents interact with eachother!  ) ... .leaning toward "not" but, still working through it all... .

[seeking balance]

I will continue on with therapy, and hopefully the combination of that, this board, and whatever else comes - will help me to make the decision.  It's very hard to think about leaving, or ending this relationship. 

I am not saying you have to make a decision today, want to make sure you are aware there is a path available to you in helping choose.  As you are actively staying, definitely work on the communication tools from staying so you can make sure not to make things worse.