Does your partner co-opt your stories?

[vortex of confusion]

I wasn't sure what to title this. Tonight, I was having a discussion with my husband. I have been trying to get us to take a break from talking about our relationship. The more we talk about it, the more tied up in knots my husband gets.

Anyway, we were talking about my family and a house that we used to have. He asked me a question about it so I started to tell him the story of how my parents bought that house and how my mom and I had sat and planned and dreamed of all of the things that we could do if they bought that house. Anyway, I am in the early stages of the story and my husband cuts me off and proceeds to finish the story for me. I sat there and got quiet. He eventually stopped talking long enough to notice that I had gone quiet. He asked if he had cut me off. I said, "Yes, you cut me off and then you proceeded to finish my story for me as though you knew what I was going to say."

I have noticed that he does that a lot. He will tell stories about me and my family even though he was never there. If I am telling a story or sharing something about me and my life, he will sometimes interrupt me and finish it for me. Or, he has even corrected me and I am talking about stuff that happened before I ever met him. Or, he wasn't around when it happened. He has only heard some of this stuff second and third hand. If he wants to share his stories from his life, that is fine. However, I do not like it when he co-opts my stories and finishes them for me or acts like he knows more about my life than I do. It is very, very frustrating and has contributed to me feeling like I have no identity of my own. I have tried to stop telling him much of anything because I don't want him to co-opt my stories.

Can anybody relate? If so, does anybody have any ideas on how to deal with this aside from telling him to shut the he** up? Getting quiet worked tonight but there are other times that he seems he** bent on sharing my stories. If we are with other people, it is even more infuriating because I don't always like some of the stories to be shared.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Flora73]

Hi Vortex,

Sounds familiar but not exactly what I experienced... .

My exBPDgf would exclude me from social events and just talk about all my success when I wasn't there (I'm an artist).

She would like to claim the attention of my success around the world and own it as hers?

I never had a problem with it, I thought of it as her being proud... .strangely she never really complemented me on my success... .just criticism (envy).

I think maybe the BP likes to have something to contribute even if its not theres... .Maybe they feel so damn insignificant they feel they have to own other peoples stories as there own to feel significant.

Maybe, this is a way of hime feeling proud of you, although indirectly.

Man Im on a learning curve with BPD, 10 weeks since my light bulb moment 

I do though feel a lot of empathy for the BPD and feel that there is always something positive to take from there twisted thinking.

Hang in there... .Vortex 

[vortex of confusion]

I never had a problem with it, I thought of it as her being proud... .strangely she never really complemented me on my success... .just criticism (envy).

If he was talking about my successes, that would be one thing. These are my childhood memories. These are stories from when I was growing up. Most of the time, they are stories that one would not be proud of sharing. Or, they are none of his business.

I don't get complemented on the fact that I have two jobs and am still a stay at home mom. Between us, it feels like he is critical of everything. That makes it difficult when I try to talk to people because they think I am crazy and say stuff like, "Oh, he never has anything but great things to say about you." That always leaves me scratching my head because that is NOT the way he acts towards me.

I think maybe the BP likes to have something to contribute even if its not theres... .Maybe they feel so damn insignificant they feel they have to own other peoples stories as there own to feel significant.

I agree with you here. It sometimes feels like my husband talks to hear himself talk. The problem with him taking my stories is that it is part of what makes me feel so engulfed by him. I feel like I can't even have my own thoughts or my own memories. Or, if I do have them, I need to keep quiet or else he will find a way to co opt it.

[meerkat1]

I am not sure if exactly the same.

My wife cuts me off in almost every conversation we have. I will say a couple of words and she then proceeds to finish by telling me what I was going to say and tells me how I feel. I just shut down each time. After 5-10 minutes of her rambling on she usually tells me I am boring or just gets mad and asks why I am not talking. I have learned NOT to say what I am thinking - "cause you cut me off you f'ing b___ and won't shut up long enough for me to say one word", and now I try to validate her feelings and just move on.

I think it is called projection. At least the part of telling me how I feel. Not sure why they feel the need to finish our stories for us. Nor can I understand the need for them to tell us how we feel.

Listening is just not the strong suit of pwBPD.

[Robins0n]

Is it an option to cut HIM off as soon as and every time he makes a false statement? Not by criticizing him ("Why are you finishing my own story for me?" but rather objectively ("It actually went down a little differently. Here's what happened.". Maybe over time he'll notice that his crystal ball's not working so well.

[meerkat1]

Sure you can try to correct them. Or cut them off at the pass. You could even try to gently coax them into seeing how they might possibly be wrong.

As long as you don't mind a beer bottle flying across the room at your head.

[vortex of confusion]

Is it an option to cut HIM off as soon as and every time he makes a false statement? Not by criticizing him ("Why are you finishing my own story for me?" but rather objectively ("It actually went down a little differently. Here's what happened.". Maybe over time he'll notice that his crystal ball's not working so well.

Cutting him off makes it worse. There is a concept in the 12 step programs where they say no cross talk. The person that is talking gets to finish what they are saying without interruption. I have tried to use that to get him to stop cutting me off. When I tried to use that, it turned into him using it on me to interrupt me. I am not even sure how he managed to turn that around on me. I just know that one night, he got mad at me and yelled at me for crosstalking and I felt like I was simply trying to have a conversation where there was some give and take.

For me, it isn't about the false statements. I don't really care whether everything is accurate. My beef is with him cutting me off and taking it upon himself to tell MY stories. It is even more annoying that he can't remember to pay bills or do other things to keep the house running but he can remember some silly story that I told him about something that happened to me as a child.

[vortex of confusion]

Sure you can try to correct them. Or cut them off at the pass. You could even try to gently coax them into seeing how they might possibly be wrong.

As long as you don't mind a beer bottle flying across the room at your head.

Yeah, it is better to simply be quiet and then find a safe place, like here, to vent and discuss. I don't have to worry about beer bottles but mine can sure get mean and terse and then act like he has no idea why I might be a little upset or hurt.

[DreamFlyer99]

Has anybody ever tried just saying excuse me and getting up to go get something from another room when they do that? I also always just sat and got quiet, but then he didn't ever see what he was doing. And he hates to be interrupted!

[vortex of confusion]

Has anybody ever tried just saying excuse me and getting up to go get something from another room when they do that? I also always just sat and got quiet, but then he didn't ever see what he was doing. And he hates to be interrupted!

I'll have to think about trying that. My concern is that it will turn into a fight. If he perceives it as a slight against him, he will get upset. Last night when I got quiet, he did eventually stop and ask if he had cut me off.

[DreamFlyer99]

Sounds like your husband is perhaps more aware than mine. I was terrible at boundaries. I know how they should work, but the push back was so extreme I had a hard time holding them.

[vortex of confusion]

Sounds like your husband is perhaps more aware than mine. I was terrible at boundaries. I know how they should work, but the push back was so extreme I had a hard time holding them.

It is really hit and miss with him. Sometimes, things seem to work they way they should and other times they don't. That is the confusing part for me. When he gets something like he did last night, I tend to relax a little bit and let my guard down a little. Then, BAM, it changes and I am left wondering What the heck! That is one of the reasons that boundaries are so hard for me at times. I feel like I have to be constantly vigilant and on guard because relaxing on my part seems to get us right back into certain patterns.

[DreamFlyer99]

I totally understand that! 

Consistency is so key to boundaries, but it's a learning thing, us building those skills. I know they do NOT come naturally to me.

Since he loves talking about your relationship so much, would he respond to your talking to him about it at some time other than when the co-opting of your stories is happening?

[vortex of confusion]

Since he loves talking about your relationship so much, would he respond to your talking to him about it at some time other than when the co-opting of your stories is happening?

I don't think so because it feels like talking about our relationship leads him to start talking about his recovery and how great he is doing. I get stuff like, "I don't want to worry about our relationship right now. My focus is on building a better relationship with the kids." I get a lot of mixed messages. On one hand, our relationship isn't his priority but he still wants to talk about it but only if it is the context of how he is doing.

Recently, he posted something on social media about how great he is doing. It is a limited account that is only available to our closest friends that know about his sex addiction. I so badly wanted to contradict him. It was only two weeks ago that he took a day off work so I could go meet my lover. It was only two weeks ago that he got excited about that and wanted to be physical with me because I had been with my friend. He doesn't seem to get how bad that hurts me. He doesn't get that if he is doing stuff like that he is NOT in full recovery.

I can't talk about any of that stuff with him because it will lead to all sorts of crazy places. I don't know if he will get mad, get excited, or want to have an open relationship. One day, he wants me to be his wife and have things be totally monogamous and the next day he wants something else entirely. I have a really difficult time talking to him about anything to do with our relationship because he will co-opt it. It feels like he is turning it into a competition. I have moments where I just don't care any more. What is the point of talking about our relationship with it is all about him and what he wants? Heck, I can't even have an affair and have it be about me. Even that is turned into being about him.

[Moselle]

I never had a problem with it, I thought of it as her being proud... .strangely she never really complemented me on my success... .just criticism (envy).

This I relate to. For some reason, they reserve a special place for the spouse/partner. We (certainly I) have the prize of being the only one to bear the brunt of the rage, anger, hatred, criticism, invalidation. Mine is extremely highly functioning. No-one suspects she has anything wrong with her. She has the abandonment fear of the BPD and the delusional grandeur, status hunger of the NPD. It's quite a combination.

But my success, she claims as her own too!

[DreamFlyer99]

Yep, it does seem to end up that our relationship and our life is actually about them. I know that's just a factor of how their faulty thinking plays out, but dang.

Vortex, I thought you didn't want to continue your other relationship? So are you still doing things to appease your husband's addiction he's living through you?

[vortex of confusion]

Yep, it does seem to end up that our relationship and our life is actually about them. I know that's just a factor of how their faulty thinking plays out, but dang.

Vortex, I thought you didn't want to continue your other relationship? So are you still doing things to appease your husband's addiction he's living through you?

Part of me wants to continue the other relationship but another part of me wants to end it. I am not doing anything to appease my husband's addiction. I have set a boundary that I will no longer discuss my friend with my husband. My husband has tried to pry a couple of times to find out where things are between me and my friend but I refuse to respond.

I want to deal with the other relationship in my own way and on my own terms. I do not want my husband dictating how and when I deal with other people. I won't throw away my friend because my husband has decided to change his mind about what he wants. To me, that would be doing the same thing that my husband has done, which is objectifying other people for his own gain.

[DreamFlyer99]

I'm just glad you're having the relationship for your own reasons! (Lame, I was worrying about you.)

[vortex of confusion]

I'm just glad you're having the relationship for your own reasons! (Lame, I was worrying about you.)

Thanks for the concern!

It is very much for my own reasons. Quite frankly, I know I should cut it off with my friend but I don't want to because he makes me laugh so much and he continually encourages me to focus on myself and my kids. I have come unglued on him several times. Because of my goofy behavior with him, he probably thinks that I have BPD or some other ailment. He has stood by me and listened to me. On the nights when I can't sleep, I can usually find him online and joke around with him.

[DreamFlyer99]

I'd imagine it's really hard not to be able to be light and just joke and laugh with your own husband, I get that. Everything got so serious with my husband in the last years and he took everything as a personal assault. Not so much fun. Laughing is so therapeutic! I would watch tv shows and movies and just laugh out loud, or laugh with girlfriends.

[Moselle]

It is very much for my own reasons. Quite frankly, I know I should cut it off with my friend but I don't want to because he makes me laugh so much and he continually encourages me to focus on myself and my kids. I have come unglued on him several times. Because of my goofy behavior with him, he probably thinks that I have BPD or some other ailment. He has stood by me and listened to me. On the nights when I can't sleep, I can usually find him online and joke around with him.

Laughter and fun. Isn't that what relationships are all about? It gets tough, yes. Things get crazy Yes. But people in healthy relationships can stand back and just be fun. I'm guessing, because mine is all BPD'd and NPD'd and it's rarely fun at all.

[waverider]

Has anybody ever tried just saying excuse me and getting up to go get something from another room when they do that? I also always just sat and got quiet, but then he didn't ever see what he was doing. And he hates to be interrupted!

I used to have a big issue with this and adopted the boundary DF99 mentions, never brought it up, never argued or got mad just did this each and everytime. Eventually she clued up to it and started to sense I was about to leave ( I always left slowly) and that gave her the "out" to stop/refer back to me in order to save face in front of whoever she was taking to. Consistency eventually won out.

Attempting the "dark look/silence etc" just ended up with projection back on to me.

[vortex of confusion]

Last night, we were sitting on the porch and I was quiet. He said he was feeling lonely and wanted to talk. I said sure and asked him what he wanted to talk about. He didn't have a clue and looked for me to start a conversation. Anyway, at some point, he commented that I had been rather quiet lately. I told him that I had been reading and trying to find better ways to communicate with him because I don't want to fight or argue with him. I want to have real discussions.

At one point, I told him that I didn't feel like we could have real discussions because he has a tendency to co-opt the conversation. I pointed out how he had asked me a question and interrupted me while I was attempting to answer and share with him. So, he gets all pouty and butt hurt and says that he will try to do better. So, we get into a conversation and, lo and behold, he interrupts and changes the subject and ends up talking about himself. I stopped him and said, "That is what I was talking about. I was talking about this subject but you took it and turned into being about you and now we are so far from the original topic that I have no idea what it was I was even trying to say." He blew it off and made some kind of excuse along the lines of, "I'm sorry. It's just that my mind goes in a million directions at once." That tells me that he isn't listening to me and paying attention to what I am saying. He is only listening to respond so he can tell me what he thinks I want to hear so he can get back to talking about himself.

And, when he pointed out that we hadn't been talking about our relationship, I told him point blank, "What is the point of talking about our relationship? You have made it perfectly clear that you have no desire to work on our relationship because you are focused on recovery and improving your relationship with the kids." He didn't like it and started telling me that now he wants to work on our relationship.

As I try to implement things from the lessons and follow suggestions offered by everyone, I can't help but ask myself, "What is the friggin' point?" What is the point of trying to learn how to communicate with somebody that only wants to talk about himself? What is the point of doing all of these things knowing that my husband is going to do the same things over and over? He can talk a good game. He can tell me all of the things that he thinks I want to hear but cannot put any of it into action. And I know I can't change him. I can only change myself. I can only control myself. I feel like I would have to change to the point of not being me in order to stay with my husband. How the heck do you do things while still being yourself? I am a smart alleck. I like to joke and have fun. I can be sarcastic. I consider myself a fun loving person. In order to keep things cool and peaceful with him, I can't really be any of those things. I feel like I have to be serious and hold my tongue as often as possible.

[Moselle]

I am a smart alleck. I like to joke and have fun. I can be sarcastic. I consider myself a fun loving person. In order to keep things cool and peaceful with him, I can't really be any of those things. I feel like I have to be serious and hold my tongue as often as possible.

I think those things all need a smart alleck in return. It's reciprocative humour, with someone who just gets it. It requires nuance and intonation, and how things are said are often more important than what is said... .no they're never going to get it Vortex, ever. Best we look for friends who get that.

[MissyM]

As I try to implement things from the lessons and follow suggestions offered by everyone, I can't help but ask myself, "What is the friggin' point?" What is the point of trying to learn how to communicate with somebody that only wants to talk about himself? What is the point of doing all of these things knowing that my husband is going to do the same things over and over? He can talk a good game. He can tell me all of the things that he thinks I want to hear but cannot put any of it into action. And I know I can't change him. I can only change myself. I can only control myself. I feel like I would have to change to the point of not being me in order to stay with my husband. How the heck do you do things while still being yourself? I am a smart alleck. I like to joke and have fun. I can be sarcastic. I consider myself a fun loving person. In order to keep things cool and peaceful with him, I can't really be any of those things. I feel like I have to be serious and hold my tongue as often as possible.

What kind of work is he doing on himself?  My dBPDh now has a really good sponsor, therapist, group therapy, marital DBT and meetings.  All of these things are starting to change the way he responds.  One of the core issues of recovery is to stop being self centered.  This takes time, my dBPDh started recovery almost 3 years ago but was really spotty with his work until he relapsed.  Now that he is really working, the change is very evident. 

It wasn't until his BPD diagnosis that he started getting the right therapy and I believe that is why he is better engaged in recovery.

[vortex of confusion]

What kind of work is he doing on himself?  My dBPDh now has a really good sponsor, therapist, group therapy, marital DBT and meetings.  All of these things are starting to change the way he responds.  One of the core issues of recovery is to stop being self centered.  This takes time, my dBPDh started recovery almost 3 years ago but was really spotty with his work until he relapsed.  Now that he is really working, the change is very evident. 

In my opinion, he is doing very little. The only thing he does is attend one SAA meeting a week. Every once in a while, he will attend two. He doesn't like going to the Saturday SAA meeting because it is too long. He had a therapist but only visited her three times before making excuses as to why he didn't want to go back. When I mentioned that I might go to a therapist, he got on board with the idea of going back. Since I haven't brought it up again, he hasn't either. He told me that he was going to try to make an appointment or find a different therapist but never really followed through with it. He says that he is in recovery but I don't believe him. He has been telling me that he is in recovery for the last year or so. Every time I turn around, it seems that there is something else and that he is violating his sobriety. I am not even sure what he considers sober any more. Frankly, I am tired of asking him questions about it. I used to really care and want to know how he was progressing. After a year of being told, "I can't worry about us right now. I have to worry about myself and my addiction before I can even think about our relationship." He told me to give him a year. It has been a year and I don't feel like much has changed. If I say anything, he tells me, "You aren't giving me enough time." I have given him 16 years. I have listened to his BS for 16 years. I have supported him. I have made excuses for him. I have protected him. I have rescued him. I have no idea what more he wants from me. Really, I don't care. I want to focus on what I want. I want to focus on my kids and how to give them a good life. I feel like I am spinning my wheels with him and the only way that I will be able to stay is to simply check out, focus on myself and the kids, and take whatever it is that he is able to do (which is subject to change without notice).

[Moselle]

I have given him 16 years. I have listened to his BS for 16 years. I have supported him. I have made excuses for him. I have protected him. I have rescued him. I have no idea what more he wants from me. Really, I don't care. I want to focus on what I want. I want to focus on my kids and how to give them a good life. I feel like I am spinning my wheels with him and the only way that I will be able to stay is to simply check out, focus on myself and the kids, and take whatever it is that he is able to do (which is subject to change without notice).

Ironically checking out may be the catalyst for real change. It was for me. My w was doing exactly the same. I cancelled paying for her therapy,  told her I agreed that we should probably get divorced as per her choice, and said I don't give a flying f whether she's BPD, NPD, or has the plague.

(she's merely BP/NP the way, not the plague :-), but that comes later in my story.)

I literally accepted that she would never change, and completely blew her off. Next she started going to therapy and paying for it herself. She started apologizing for all the crap she's done. And last week she admitted BPD and NPD and that she's doing CBT.

It's like I had to actually completely disinvest myself in her welfare for her to get real help for herself. Its counterintuitive. Care less and they care more. BPD... .crazy making! NPD, I may be crazy, but I'm the king/queen here!

[MissyM]

Moselle, what you are describing is detachment.  I made my dBPDh leave and he hasn't moved back in yet because he hasn't finished with a couple of things.  We are looking at him moving back in next month.  Part of my recovery has been to set boundaries and detach with love.  So far, it seems to be working for me.  I certainly feel a lot better.  We shall see how it goes when he moves back in. 

Vortex, there is a study that showed that sex addicts don't recover unless their spouses really have firm boundaries about what they will tolerate.  In my 3 years of recovery, I have never seen a sex addict recover without going to a CSAT.  I have seen a lot lie about recovering but none that make it without that added in.  More and more they are being diagnosed with personality disorders and that therapy is being added in.

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, there is a study that showed that sex addicts don't recover unless their spouses really have firm boundaries about what they will tolerate.  In my 3 years of recovery, I have never seen a sex addict recover without going to a CSAT.  I have seen a lot lie about recovering but none that make it without that added in.  More and more they are being diagnosed with personality disorders and that therapy is being added in.

I have tried to bring up CSAT with him but he doesn't really think that it is necessary. His therapist shut down her practice and is shuffling all of her patients to other people in the practice. He says that he hasn't made an appointment because he isn't looking forward to starting over with a new person. He says that he was just starting to open up with the other one and he has a difficult time opening up to people. The only place where he is comfortable opening up and talking to people is at the SAA meetings.

I am trying to detach and set boundaries but as I detach I am having a lot of feelings of "What's the point?"

[waverider]

Vortex, what you are coming to terms with is that you should be focusing more on you, and your life, including preventing yourself from being frustrated like this.

The phase you partner is displaying is that were there can be lots of insights but an enormous amount of tokenism to do anything about it. It is a huge personality change that is required from them and that takes a long time to change. The penny doesn't drop as quick for them as it always has to contend with this cloud of delusion which seems to permeate them completely.

Having "the chat" to try and get them onto your plan is all very well, they may even "get it", but they can't live it, the cloud of delusion carries away that moment of sunshine. You are left disillusioned and frustrated, because you yet again thought you had a plan, you were both on board and making progress, only to find yourself all alone on that path your partner having disappeared off into the mist again.

If you view yourself as only being responsible for finding your own path forward life will have fewer let downs. Your partner may then have a desire to follow your path, or not. You cannot control this, and the more you try to coerse the more they resist, anything that is not their idea doesn't have the required determination to follow it through

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, what you are coming to terms with is that you should be focusing more on you, and your life, including preventing yourself from being frustrated like this.

Yep, that is very true. I probably would have been okay if he hadn't wanted to talk this evening. He put me on the spot and wanted me to tell him what to do and how to do it. He wanted me to tell him what I need. I told him that I cannot do that for him. I told him that he has to figure it out for himself. And, I also pointed out that he has done this in the past. He will ask me what to do and will get my input and then not follow through. I told him point blank that I cannot trust him to follow through with anything. Sure, we can talk all day long but that is the substance of our communication. I told him that I get really confused at times because his non verbal communication will say one thing but then when I ask him about it he will tell me that I am completely wrong. I told him that I don't know what to think about anything any more. But, I did refuse to tell him what to do. I stuck to the fact that he has to figure things out for himself.

Having "the chat" to try and get them onto your plan is all very well, they may even "get it", but they can't live it, the cloud of delusion carries away that moment of sunshine. You are left disillusioned and frustrated, because you yet again thought you had a plan, you were both on board and making progress, only to find yourself all alone on that path your partner having disappeared off into the mist again.

He seems to be the one that initiates the chats. I have tried to stop talking about our relationship. I have tried to sit and listen to him talk about where he is at in his life. I have tried NOT to say too much because he tends to get rather fatalistic about things. I told him that I was frustrated and his response was, "I wish you weren't frustrated." I was floored because I think being frustrated is a very natural reaction to what I have to deal with on a day to day basis. I said that I had a lot of thoughts and feelings but wasn't sure where to even begin and that I didn't even really want to go there because I don't want to set him back or create more problems. He told me, "I bet I already know what you think and feel." I told him to tell me. So he says, "I think you hate me."

Whaaaaaa? I have dinner cooked or available every night when he comes home. I try not to interfere with anything that he wants to do. I don't ask for hardly anything from him. I have supported him through all sorts of things yet he thinks I hate him. I don't have it in me to hate anyone let alone the father of my children and the man that I used to consider was my best friend.

If you view yourself as only being responsible for finding your own path forward life will have fewer let downs. Your partner may then have a desire to follow your path, or not. You cannot control this, and the more you try to coerse the more they resist, anything that is not their idea doesn't have the required determination to follow it through

I guess I wonder why people think that I am trying to coerce my husband into following my path. In all honesty, I have been trying to find ways to create my own path. He is the one that wants to talk about things to death. He is the one that wants to talk about this stuff ad nauseum while I sit there and listen to him and give input when appropriate. When I do something, it seems like he wants to do it too. He even applied for a job at the place where I work. He interviewed with them and did really well but has not heard back from them. He is obsessing over whether or not he got the job. The interview was close to two months ago. A reasonable person would simply let it go and assume that he didn't get the job. Not my husband. There isn't a day that goes by that he doesn't wonder about that job. On the days when I work, he asks me if I have found out anything. He won't let it rest.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[JohnLove]

Hello vortex of confusion. I feel you really need to have a greater appreciation that you are in a relationship with someone with a severe mental illness. Your friend sounds rather healthy and focused. He sounds like he has your best interests at heart... .while getting his own needs met.  . I don't believe you can "get" your husband to be like that. He is what he is.

I agree with the post with wave rider above except I am uncertain if your husbands insights are really that. A pwBPD will tell you what you expect to hear or what they believe you expect to be told. They are not completely stupid. They can be very manipulative in getting their own needs met or the disorder itself can be percieved as manipulation. The situation where your husband condoned the your affair and wanted to be part of it really blows my mind. That's not how affairs work but I am not one to judge if if you feel it is working for you. Problem is... .it's not. You have explained that he wanted it to be about him. Affairs are selfish actions. I am gobsmacked that he was able to twist it to be about him. This is BPD.

I read through this thread and in the beginning you were explaining that according to your husband he didn't care who you were or what your life experiences were that bought you to this place. Someone else called it projection but I believe it is very different to that.

Your husband wants you to be what he wants or expects you to be, not who you really are. That is confronting. When you reveal something about your history he is making up your life story according to his own expectations... .no doubt like he does with himself according to his Facebook posting.

Remember that to a pwBPD feelings = facts.

We are spiritual beings. No question about it. I believe that when a person develops BPD that their spirit is destructed. How do you feel when your true spirit is ignored?.

He has made you feel like an object... .again this is BPD all over... .and that's what has left you continually feeling detached and asking yourself "What's the point?".

I would like you to continue to ask yourself that question... . 

[JohnLove]

I just read your update after I posted.

He is engulfing you and after reading your last update I am not a doctor but I will use the term runaway engulfment (yes I just made that up). He is out of control. I think you need to focus on yourself and his extreme engulfment of you. He seems to be trying to consume you and your identity because he has none of his own.  Your home, your personal life, and now at work?. You will have no peace. I feel this is a very bad idea... .for many people... .but especially in your situation. This enmeshment is too extreme. I feel you should not be encouraging it. The feeling is if you could just give enough of yourself things will get better... .this is true to an extent but you are giving too much of yourself away. It will never be enough. He needs to get himself together or get help. It is as simple as that.

The comment you made in an earlier post about being invalidated while speaking to him about your own life... .even before you met him... .confirms this. I think you termed it co-opted... .whatever you want to call it, it is mental illness and just plain wrong.

My heart goes out to you. You might need more help than this forum or your friend. Do you have a life experienced person to talk to?... .or a counsellor?... .or even a T?.

[vortex of confusion]

I just read your update after I posted.

He is engulfing you and after reading your last update I am not a doctor but I will use the term runaway engulfment (yes I just made that up). He is out of control. I think you need to focus on yourself and his extreme engulfment of you. He seems to be trying to consume you and your identity because he has none of his own.  Your home, your personal life, and now at work?. You will have no peace. I feel this is a very bad idea... .for many people... .but especially in your situation. This enmeshment is too extreme. I feel you should not be encouraging it. The feeling is if you could just give enough of yourself things will get better... .this is true to an extent but you are giving too much of yourself away. It will never be enough. He needs to get himself together or get help. It is as simple as that.

I completely agree with you John! I have been trying to focus on myself and my kids. It can be confusing for me because it is like he is engulfing me but ignoring me all at the same time. My boss did take me aside the other night and let me know that my husband is NOT going to get the job but he asked me not to tell my husband and just let him find out from HR. I am more than happy to do that. I can sit and listen to my husband talk about the job and be at ease because I am no longer worrying about it. I love my boss. I jokingly told him it was a relief because I did't want to have to share my coworkers with my husband. He totally got it. I think he told me about my husband not being the candidate because I had told somebody else that I was concerned that it might ruin my chances for working with them full time in the future.

The comment you made in an earlier post about being invalidated while speaking to him about your own life... .even before you met him... .confirms this. I think you termed it co-opted... .whatever you want to call it, it is mental illness and just plain wrong.

It is weird how little things like that seem so normal when that is what you live on a day to day basis. I didn't notice it for the longest time. I think it has always been there but it has gotten a lot worse over the years.

My heart goes out to you. You might need more help than this forum or your friend. Do you have a life experienced person to talk to?... .or a counsellor?... .or even a T?.

I am slowly rebuilding my networks. I have a good friend whose father is a therapist. He won't talk to me but my friend knows a lot of stuff from having grown up with her dad. For now, I am using this forum as a way to just get some of this stuff out. Every time I write out new details or rehash things, it is becoming more real. The more real it gets, the easier it is to set boundaries. While I was normalizing completely abnormal behavior, I didn't see how screwed up my boundaries had become. I didn't see just how screwed up everything was. I have always had a nagging feeling that something wasn't right but I chalked it up to the fact that I can sometimes be a bit paranoid because of things that go back to my FOO. And, his pristine, picture perfect whatever didn't help either. High school football, private schools his whole life, very religious family, small town in the Midwest, and so on and so forth. Me, I grew up a "heathen" and had a family full of very interesting people. Even now, I think that people would look at what is seen on the surface and complete side with him and think that I am bat crap crazy because he is just so nice. He rubs my feet for me. He will sometimes have dinner ready when I get home from work. And the list goes on. Oh, and I don't hide stuff or pretend to be anything. Him, not so much.

Oh, and some of this goes way back. I wanted to go to grad school and get a master's degree in a certain field. The recruiter came and talked to me and I asked for a packet for my fiance. Anyway, we got married and went to grad school together. He had one master's degree that he was finishing but opted to go to school with me too. He is still using my bosses (the professors) as references. I worked for those professors yet it feels like he is riding my coat tail. The job that he lost because of looking at porn at work was actually at a place that I had worked at for 4 years. I knew all of his coworkers and many of them were at our wedding. When he quit out of the blue, my old boss called me and I was put on the spot and had to reassure her that nobody there had done anything wrong. And, one of his coworkers (the one that turned him in) was on an alumni board with me. I dropped off the board because I was so ashamed and embarrassed.

[vortex of confusion]

Affairs are selfish actions. I am gobsmacked that he was able to twist it to be about him. This is BPD.

The affair was his idea. I started it because I answered an online ad one time. After talking to the guy for a day or two, I felt bad because the conversations went places that I didn't intend for them to go. I got swept away because it felt really nice to have a real conversation with a man. I told my husband and he got all excited and used that as an excuse for both of us to see other people. And it got worse because my husband and that guy were actually emailing each other about me. It was twisted. After meeting my husband, the guy stopped emailing him all together. I went to see the guy one or two more times after that. When I refused to give my husband details, he told the guys wife and the guy sent me an email telling me to keep my ___hole husband away from him and he could never talk to me again.

It didn't stop my husband from wanting me to do stuff with other people and then come tell him about it. The friend that I have now has been talking to me for over a year now. As long as I am willing to tell my husband details, my husband is okay with me having a "friend". If I refuse to give him details, then he tells me that he doesn't want me talking to my friend. What is even more twisted is that my husband would take pictures of me and have me send them to my friend. If he found out that I sent my friend anything without his knowledge, then he would become unglued.

And that is why I am currently refusing to give up my friend. I know it isn't right. Not one little bit. But I don't really care at this point. I am trying to find as many people as I can to talk to and support me so that I can regain some sense of normalcy. In the past, I was so isolated that I would just fall back into old patterns because I did not have any kind of support. I put on a happy little face and pretended to be the perfect little wife and did whatever necessary to take care of my husband. And when I write it out, it sounds so completely horrible.

[waverider]

His attempts at initiating these discussions is a way of holding you in place. This is likely to increase as you attempt to me autonomous.

You will need to either find a way to avoid these discusions or let them wash, as they are unlikely to abate.

In short working on ways to prevent frustration and resentment building as a result

[MissyM]

I am trying to detach and set boundaries but as I detach I am having a lot of feelings of "What's the point?"

I think that is normal. Detaching feels really unnatural at first.  The detaching with love is harder to get to.

[Moselle]

Part of my recovery has been to set boundaries and detach with love.  

I'm afraid I detached rather abruptly, and with less love, though I have been  careful to be kind and generous to her for the whole 7 months of separation. Even through the rages. I felt that if I could do that I'd have some sense of pride that I can be competent husband. I've also been practicing giving her emotional safety.

How did you do it with love?

We are spiritual beings. No question about it. I believe that when a person develops BPD that their spirit is destructed. How do you feel when your true spirit is ignored?.

This is profound. Mine has degenerated spiritually, to the point where there has none. I'm not sure she ever had any spiritualty. I knew this intuitively, but to see you write it has confirmed my suspicion around this.

Oh, and I don't hide stuff or pretend to be anything. Him, not so much.

Ha, ha had to laugh about this one. Ditto!

[JohnLove]

Affairs are selfish actions. I am gobsmacked that he was able to twist it to be about him. This is BPD.

The affair was his idea. I started it because I answered an online ad one time. After talking to the guy for a day or two, I felt bad because the conversations went places that I didn't intend for them to go. I got swept away because it felt really nice to have a real conversation with a man. I told my husband and he got all excited and used that as an excuse for both of us to see other people. And it got worse because my husband and that guy were actually emailing each other about me. It was twisted. After meeting my husband, the guy stopped emailing him all together. I went to see the guy one or two more times after that. When I refused to give my husband details, he told the guys wife and the guy sent me an email telling me to keep my ___hole husband away from him and he could never talk to me again.

It didn't stop my husband from wanting me to do stuff with other people and then come tell him about it. The friend that I have now has been talking to me for over a year now. As long as I am willing to tell my husband details, my husband is okay with me having a "friend". If I refuse to give him details, then he tells me that he doesn't want me talking to my friend. What is even more twisted is that my husband would take pictures of me and have me send them to my friend. If he found out that I sent my friend anything without his knowledge, then he would become unglued.

And that is why I am currently refusing to give up my friend. I know it isn't right. Not one little bit. But I don't really care at this point. I am trying to find as many people as I can to talk to and support me so that I can regain some sense of normalcy. In the past, I was so isolated that I would just fall back into old patterns because I did not have any kind of support. I put on a happy little face and pretended to be the perfect little wife and did whatever necessary to take care of my husband. And when I write it out, it sounds so completely horrible.

Thank you for sharing so much vortex. It helps me to understand BPD and to comprehend my own situations.

I noted that sharing in this forum and the advice received helps but I did not miss that even when you just write it down you process it differently mentally and that helps enormously with clarity and perspective.

The affair was your husbands idea but... .you ran with it. I can understand why. Pushing and pulling behaviour is typical of a pwBPD. Controlling behaviour is written all over this as well as it is about your husbands needs. (BPD again). I suspect he would like to have another partner... .someone more controllable perhaps?. If you started it... .and if he also had an affair then that would be "acceptable" in your relationship wouldnt it?. You couldn't blame him then.

Many people in these forums complain of infidelity. It is just classic BPD behaviour. He goaded you in a sense. You know in your heart it isn't right but you have the longing for understanding and true love as we all do. Did you let him get the better of you?. Will it backfire when you make a deep connection with someone else?. He will have no one to blame but himself. Blame is so BIG in BPD.

The guy and your husband emailing about you is triangulation. Another nasty behaviour not limited to but especially deleterious in a relationship with someone suffering BPD.

Your second paragraph is all about control and the objectification of you. Problem... .you are not an object. This is classic BPD again.

Your friend is quite obviously supportive and an emotional lifeline. I don't question that and it is fine... .the problem is in a healthy monogamous relationship being intimate with someone physically or emotionally other than your partner is cheating.

The overriding problem is that BPD makes a dog's breakfast of a healthy relationship.

I would encourage you to seek outside help and continue to post and study the tools on this site.

More power to you. You said your husband had gotten worse with time. I hope for you that you can reverse this deterioration but it will be slow and hard if you can

I sincerely hope you can work through this and find happiness.  

[JohnLove]

I completely agree with you John! I have been trying to focus on myself and my kids. It can be confusing for me because it is like he is engulfing me but ignoring me all at the same time. My boss did take me aside the other night and let me know that my husband is NOT going to get the job but he asked me not to tell my husband and just let him find out from HR. I am more than happy to do that. I can sit and listen to my husband talk about the job and be at ease because I am no longer worrying about it. I love my boss. I jokingly told him it was a relief because I did't want to have to share my coworkers with my husband. He totally got it. I think he told me about my husband not being the candidate because I had told somebody else that I was concerned that it might ruin my chances for working with them full time in the future.

I am slowly rebuilding my networks. I have a good friend whose father is a therapist. He won't talk to me but my friend knows a lot of stuff from having grown up with her dad. For now, I am using this forum as a way to just get some of this stuff out. Every time I write out new details or rehash things, it is becoming more real. The more real it gets, the easier it is to set boundaries. While I was normalizing completely abnormal behavior, I didn't see how screwed up my boundaries had become. I didn't see just how screwed up everything was. I have always had a nagging feeling that something wasn't right but I chalked it up to the fact that I can sometimes be a bit paranoid because of things that go back to my FOO. And, his pristine, picture perfect whatever didn't help either. High school football, private schools his whole life, very religious family, small town in the Midwest, and so on and so forth. Me, I grew up a "heathen" and had a family full of very interesting people. Even now, I think that people would look at what is seen on the surface and complete side with him and think that I am bat crap crazy because he is just so nice. He rubs my feet for me. He will sometimes have dinner ready when I get home from work. And the list goes on. Oh, and I don't hide stuff or pretend to be anything. Him, not so much.

Oh, and some of this goes way back. I wanted to go to grad school and get a master's degree in a certain field. The recruiter came and talked to me and I asked for a packet for my fiance. Anyway, we got married and went to grad school together. He had one master's degree that he was finishing but opted to go to school with me too. He is still using my bosses (the professors) as references. I worked for those professors yet it feels like he is riding my coat tail. The job that he lost because of looking at porn at work was actually at a place that I had worked at for 4 years. I knew all of his coworkers and many of them were at our wedding. When he quit out of the blue, my old boss called me and I was put on the spot and had to reassure her that nobody there had done anything wrong. And, one of his coworkers (the one that turned him in) was on an alumni board with me. I dropped off the board because I was so ashamed and embarrassed.

Engulfment is not so much about you. It is about the engulfer (if that's even a word). Ignoring you or your needs is par for the course unless there is an aspect that fills their need.

Your boss so obviously has your back, is sympathetic to your situation, and values you highly.

This is good. It is validating. It would seem he also has very healthy boundaries. He doesn't need this crap in his life so he doesn't. Emotion doesn't factor into his decision.

I am glad to hear you are rebuilding. Interesting people make the world go round... .isn't that how we end up in relationships with a pwBPD. They can be charming and attentive and affectionate and... .

Yes. PwBPD have masks... .that they show to the world... .so that they will be accepted. Stay true to yourself. It is the path to happiness.

The realisation this goes way back are huge red flags. Finishing a masters degree only to jump ship into your course?. Enmeshing behaviour right there. You weren't to know what was to come. This would have been normalised in the early stages of an intimate relationship.

His behaviour was unacceptable to others?. No wonder he jumped ship!. A pwBPD cannot accept blame or even being wrong. On some level they know that they are "not right" but they cannot be held responsible.

I am so sorry you had to endure the shame and embarrassment of this and the humiliation as well... .really... .it was all his.

He owned it. He was responsible for it. Not you.

Stay strong. Stay focused on yourself and your children. Our thoughts are with you.  

[vortex of confusion]

The affair was your husbands idea but... .you ran with it. I can understand why. Pushing and pulling behaviour is typical of a pwBPD. Controlling behaviour is written all over this as well as it is about your husbands needs. (BPD again). I suspect he would like to have another partner... .someone more controllable perhaps?. If you started it... .and if he also had an affair then that would be "acceptable" in your relationship wouldnt it?. You couldn't blame him then.

Yep, I totally ran with it. The problem was that he wanted to know everything that I was doing and who I was talking to at any given time. I talked to a whole lot of people. When I would set boundaries with those people or tell them things they didn't want to hear, they would disappear. My husband would get mad because he couldn't find anybody. He would post and post and post but not get any responses. And then, there were a couple of times when it was pretty clear that the person he was talking to was trying to pull one over on him. He became so obsessed with one woman that he would talk to her on the phone at night and even sat and texted her when we were sitting on the couch cuddling. I got really, really mad because I tried to remain respectful of him through the whole ordeal. I never let anything that I was doing interfere with my ability to take care of the kids, the house, or him. If I would try to bring that up, he would get mad and tell me that I had a double standard. He would throw what I was doing in my face. Then, he would delete his ads and his email account and would be "good" for a while until something upset him and then he would be right back to looking again. There were two or three women that he was talking to that I emailed because I found out he was lying to me. Part of our agreement was that there be honesty. He lied about everything. To make matters worse, he was telling one lady that he was into things that he has never ever been interested in his life. When I got to digging, I found out that she was just a female version of my friend. When I told her what was going on, she dropped him. He had already unfriended her and blocked her and she had no idea why. She was rather perplexed until I explained what was going on.

Many people in these forums complain of infidelity. It is just classic BPD behaviour. He goaded you in a sense. You know in your heart it isn't right but you have the longing for understanding and true love as we all do. Did you let him get the better of you?. Will it backfire when you make a deep connection with someone else?. He will have no one to blame but himself. Blame is so BIG in BPD.

He goaded me. That is for sure. I already have a deep connection with my friend. My friend blows me away sometimes because he knows when it is that time of the month, he seems to know when to stay away and when I need him. We didn't talk for 6 weeks one time. I was getting really frustrated and down and he sends me a message out of the blue. The few times we have actually gotten together in person, he can sense by discomfort with some things and will stop and we end up just sitting and talking. It makes it really difficult for me because there is a part of me that feels madly in love with my friend. But, I know that my perception of him is very skewed because of the nature of our relationship and how it began. I am not kidding myself at all.

Your friend is quite obviously supportive and an emotional lifeline. I don't question that and it is fine... .the problem is in a healthy monogamous relationship being intimate with someone physically or emotionally other than your partner is cheating.

Oh yes, I am well aware of this. When I have tried to bring it up with my husband, he keeps telling me that I didn't cheat because I had his permission to do it.

More power to you. You said your husband had gotten worse with time. I hope for you that you can reverse this deterioration but it will be slow and hard if you can

In all honesty, I don't know that my husband will ever change because he does not see things. This morning, he asked me if he should go to the Saturday meeting. In the past, I would encourage him to go. Today, I told him, "That is up to you. It isn't my decision to make." Then, I decided to take our younger three to the mall and to have lunch. He was wishy washy about going with us. One of the girls asked him not to go and then confided in me that she didn't want him to go because he yells too much and gets too grumpy. He has a tendency to micromanage them with stuff like, "Stay close. Don't do this. Don't do that. You are in people's way." It is all very nitpicky and it makes the girls anxious and they end up acting out or fighting and our trips suck. Today, the girls and I had an awesome time. I did get irritated though because there is all kinds of things that need done around the house. He rewashed a load of laundry and put it in the dryer for me and that was it. He was able to make a video of himself playing an instrument and post it to social media. And when we were sitting outside when we got home, he was so proud of his video and he was so proud of the fact that he didn't spend the entire time on the computer. From the time I got up this morning, I was on the go making breakfast, starting laundry, and doing stuff with the kids. He has a tendency to disappear and it feels like he has no real interest in his kids.

He will deny this and say that he loves his kids but we tend to feel like we are just an inconvenience to him.