Hard Day Cont'd 6...

[Mutt]

That's good news and I'm happy to hear that Maroon Liquid!   It's a positive step. It's frustrating and hard and don't give up hope. It's a work in progress, things will improve if you commit to change. There's bumps a long the way and keep at it.

That's significant Maroon Liquid! Bravo!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

That's good news and I'm happy to hear that Maroon Liquid!   It's a positive step. It's frustrating and hard and don't give up hope. It's a work in progress, things will improve if you commit to change. There's bumps a long the way and keep at it.

That's significant Maroon Liquid! Bravo!

     Thanks, Mutt... .I'm trying not to go to the place that she is "just using me again", and instead, just going with the flow and not putting any pressure on her.  I have committed to change since the beginning and one thing that God showed me in scripture was that I needed the "patience to endure" and that "Love is patient".  BPD traits really test the love, patience and endurance of a person.  Sometimes it is easier to "throw in the towel" than it is to do what God is asking, but I "endure" for the reward.  My wife is worth it.  When she is not dysregulated, she is a very loving, caring, affectionate, and passionate woman.  I always knew she lived with a tremendous amount of fear which is why she always used to say, "I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop."  I see things with her so differently now than I did 5 months ago. 

     There are bumps that at times look like mountains, and the storms of this can "rage", but I keep my eyes off of what it looks like and press on.  The other day, I almost "threw in the towel", but sometimes it is always the "darkest before the dawn".  I know that I vent here quite a bit, but it is better to do it here.  Sorry about that guys.  But if anyone understands it is y'all... .

[Grey Kitty]

We're here for you, Maroon!

We'll listen to you vent.

We'll acknowledge your hurt and your pain.

We'll celebrate your successes. Bravo from me too! 

And we'll call you on it when you don't look like you are making your own choices, according to your values and your faith.

[Mutt]

I like this:

"it is darkest before dawn"

I thought I'd pop in and see if I could help and I wasn't here to criticize you.  I learned my lesson after the marriage. There's no easy around this I had to change to end the conflict. What can I say? I'm a stubborn man and it took a difficult personality disorder to learn this lesson.

BPD traits really test the love, patience and endurance of a person.  Sometimes it is easier to "throw in the towel" than it is to do what God is asking, but I "endure" for the reward.  My wife is worth it.  When she is not dysregulated, she is a very loving, caring, affectionate, and passionate woman.  I always knew she lived with a tremendous amount of fear which is why she always used to say, "I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop."  I see things with her so differently now than I did 5 months ago.

We have 2 ears and 1 mouth. We should use our ears more than our mouth. If she's threatening divorce there's a reason why.

It is accepting reality for what it is and flowing with it, when we flow against reality it causes anxiety, stress, frustration.

Much of the behavior is driven by the disorder. You see your spouse for the person that she is loving, caring and passionate. It's not giving into every whim and as formflier said, don't bite when she's emotionally immature. Depersonalize the emotional immaturity. The members here will teach boundaries. I'm happy to hear you didn't throw in the towel out of frustration    Use the boards to vent. Keep patience.

[MaroonLiquid]

I like this:

"it is darkest before dawn"

I thought I'd pop in and see if I could help and I wasn't here to criticize you.  I learned my lesson after the marriage. There's no easy around this I had to change to end the conflict. What can I say? I'm a stubborn man and it took a difficult personality disorder to learn this lesson.

BPD traits really test the love, patience and endurance of a person.  Sometimes it is easier to "throw in the towel" than it is to do what God is asking, but I "endure" for the reward.  My wife is worth it.  When she is not dysregulated, she is a very loving, caring, affectionate, and passionate woman.  I always knew she lived with a tremendous amount of fear which is why she always used to say, "I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop."  I see things with her so differently now than I did 5 months ago.

We have 2 ears and 1 mouth. We should use our ears more than our mouth. If she's threatening divorce there's a reason why.

It is accepting reality for what it is and flowing with it, when we flow against reality it causes anxiety, stress, frustration.

Much of the behavior is driven by the disorder. You see your spouse for the person that she is loving, caring and passionate. It's not giving into every whim and as formflier said, don't bite when she's emotionally immature. Depersonalize the emotional immaturity. The members here will teach boundaries. I'm happy to hear you didn't throw in the towel out of frustration    Use the boards to vent. Keep patience.

So this morning I asked my wife on text if she was feeling better and she said, "Not really."  I used SET and then typed a prayer for her and asked her if there was anything she needed today and no response... .That was at around 8:30 this morning.  I have just let her be and won't force contact.  This happened yesterday and she finally contacted me late yesterday evening.  This is the usual cycle of behavior for her the last 5 months.  She initiates contact, we text for a day or so, and then like the second morning she pulls back and then I won't hear from her most to the rest of the day... .It's strange, but I won't let her know it bothers me.  This is the part of the push/pull of hers that I usually let get to me.  I won't let it this time... .

[Mutt]

It's strange, but I won't let her know it bothers me.  This is the part of the push/pull of hers that I usually let get to me.  I won't let it this time... .

Make indifference to her behavior(s) a goal. It's not personal   SET doesn't always work, it works well when it does.

[ColdEthyl]

This is one of the hardest lessons for us as "nons" to learn. Their vile and venom really IS NOT personal toward us. It happens a lot less than it used to, but when me dBPDh does dysregulate and resort to name calling (this only happens when he's out of cards and still frustrated, usually when I've fell into JADEing) I have gotten to the point that I recognize what's going on, and revert back to SET.

It's strange, but I won't let her know it bothers me.  This is the part of the push/pull of hers that I usually let get to me.  I won't let it this time... .

Make indifference to her behavior(s) a goal. It's not personal   SET doesn't always work, it works well when it does.

[MaroonLiquid]

So my wife called me this morning and asked me what I wanted to do about the car situation as she was going to go and try and get the car loan in her name only next Wednesday.  Completely caught me off guard, but tried not to react and didn't.  I stayed calm except on the inside... .I said that I would rather work on the marriage than split anything else up.  She said to let her know by next Wednesday what I wanted to do because she had plans to go down there next Wednesday and get that done.  I said let's talk about it (meaning we have a couple of days) and she said, that's what I'm trying to do... .I asked if she had anytime to get together to do that and she said she is swamped with work and the kids have things all week and all day Saturday... .I said ok, and she responded, "Just think about it and let me know because if you don't, I'm going to do whats best for me.  I'm just being honest."  My thought was, "Isn't that what you've done for months?"  Obviously I didn't say that, and responded with, "I understand."  I asked her if she was willing to work on "us" and she responded with, "I'm trying".  I thought to myself, "Really, because we never see each other!"    I just said ok.  So I told her I would think about it.  I sent her a text saying that I can understand how hard she must be working to get things done before the end of the year as anyone would missing three weeks of work and was committed to doing what's best for both of us.  Then I sent her a text asking what she wanted to do.  She said what I asked her to do.  I asked why she felt that way and she responded, "What way?  You called me last week and told me to go to the bank and get the car in my name so you could buy another car.  I don't want to go back and forth on this so just tell me which one you want in your name."  I responded with, "I did say that and I can see how that would upset you and send a mixed message of what I have been telling you at times.  I would feel the same way.   I'm trying to understand what your needs are.  That is important to me.  I feel that working on "you and I" is more important than fighting over vehicles, and fighting over petty stuff.  Continuing to split things up only makes things harder on the both of us.  If we are both trying to work on the marriage, then let's make that the focus, and talk about what's best for the family.  If my family needs a different why vehicle then let's work on that."  She said she wasn't upset at all and she agrees with me that this is the right thing to do.  I haven't responded to that.

I'm confused, not reacting, but what is she up to?  I guess I won't know... .   Is she trying to split me black again and finding an excuse?

[MaroonLiquid]

And she doesn't have time to spend with me, but can take the day next Wednesday to go to the bank and get the vehicle loans stuff done... .This is the disheartening stuff that I don't understand... .I'm wondering if she is opening the door to giving me my car back so that she can put me in a no win so if I take it, she can look like the victim and me the bad guy... .

[Grey Kitty]

What do you want to do about the cars? This situation sounds good to me:

One car in your name, with your insurance, your loan, your responsibility to pay for it and keep it running.

One car in her name, with her insurance, her loan, and her responsibility to pay for it and keep it running.

With that situation, there is room for you to be generous and help her out.

What sucked is when she thinks you owe her something on her car, and you don't see it that way. (and then stole your car from you that you had loaned her!)

[MaroonLiquid]

That situation sounds ok.  I validated her on it, but after further texting with her, I see it as a no win ploy.  Here's why... .

She said that she wants to remove the obstacles that we disagree on allows us to deal with the real issues of incompatibility.  So she said pick which car and let me know so that we can get it fixed... .If I pick my car, she will play the victim and say how selfish I am, and will probably balk at the last minute and not go.  If I pick her vehicle, I'd be upside down about $2500 in it.  

    I also asked about the kids and what they wanted for Christmas and she said don't worry about getting them anything, lets pay off a bill we have together.  She has what's tied to that bill, and that only serves her and that makes me look bad to the kids which further her black paining.

    Then she says that she doesn't have the capacity to work on "us" until after the holidays.  Hmmm... .I think she is full of BS... .She kind of said the same thing about the cruise that we would work on "us" after that.  I asked her to clarify if that means we aren't seeing each other until after the holidays, and she said that she doesn't have the capacity to work on "us" during that time.  I just said, "ok".  :)Idn't know what else to say, but I was hurt and pissed.  There is always a crisis in the last 5 months that needs more of her attention than our marriage when in all reality, this is about her and her issues she doesn't want to deal with.  What will it be after that, Valentine's Day, then St. Patrick's Day, the Easter.  At that point, we are looking at almost a year.  I'm not okay with this.  She will continue to put me off until it is "easier" to divorce because we don't know each other anymore.  This crosses another boundary for me.  If you truly care for someone and want to work on the marriage, you would.  Her saying has always been, "People do what they want to do and they don't do what they don't want to do."  Her mother will be in town and that would give us the perfect opportunity to spend time together.  But she doesn't have the capacity... .This is emotional manipulation that I can no longer tolerate.

[MaroonLiquid]

I need to set a boundary over this and thinking of putting my laptop and car in this boundary... .I'm thinking and will have to post later when I am thinking about.

[waverider]

working on "us" doesn't have an easy answer so its always avoided and put lower on the priority list than black and white issues.

Stop worry about how you may be portrayed, her victim / you persecutor, good guy/bad guy. That is reactive behavior. stick to doing what you feel is right, however it looks is no big concern as you will get painted however she feels like painting you anyway.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm with waverider--stop worrying about how she feels, and how she will portray things.

And when i say that, I don't believe you can literally stop thinking about it on a dime--that is very very very hard, and will take a lot of time and work on your part. I mean stop letting those thoughts rule your decisions. Stop even letting them influence your decisions.

Look at it this way:

If she gives back your car, and deals with her car, that is fair and reasonable behavior, right?

If she gives back your laptop, that is fair and fairly reasonable behavior too, right?

(Well, except for the fact that she took them in the first place!)

Let her start being reasonable toward you, then work on "us" with her. Until she does things like that, there isn't much in "us" for you. anyway.

On the practical side... .shut up about the laptop for a couple more days, unless she mentions it.

Just tell her what you want to do about the cars, and let her deal with it. You know what is fair.

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm with waverider--stop worrying about how she feels, and how she will portray things.

And when i say that, I don't believe you can literally stop thinking about it on a dime--that is very very very hard, and will take a lot of time and work on your part. I mean stop letting those thoughts rule your decisions. Stop even letting them influence your decisions.

Look at it this way:

If she gives back your car, and deals with her car, that is fair and reasonable behavior, right?

If she gives back your laptop, that is fair and fairly reasonable behavior too, right?

(Well, except for the fact that she took them in the first place!)

Let her start being reasonable toward you, then work on "us" with her. Until she does things like that, there isn't much in "us" for you. anyway.

On the practical side... .shut up about the laptop for a couple more days, unless she mentions it.

Just tell her what you want to do about the cars, and let her deal with it. You know what is fair.

Why not mention the laptop? 

[Grey Kitty]

To avoid muddying the waters. It is hard enough to keep a pwBPD on topic when there is only one topic!

She's sounding interested in doing something about the cars already.

If she does something reasonable, thank her and go about your day, with a clean title on your car.

You can deal with the laptop next.

[MaroonLiquid]

To avoid muddying the waters. It is hard enough to keep a pwBPD on topic when there is only one topic!

She's sounding interested in doing something about the cars already.

If she does something reasonable, thank her and go about your day, with a clean title on your car.

You can deal with the laptop next.

But why does it feel that my issues get ignored while hers are the ones that are dealt with?  It seems to me that she can always make an excuse as to why she does not get help or have time to... .maybe I'm focusing on the negative, but just curious as to why she keeps running. 

[MaroonLiquid]

Well, like I said yesterday, her "being reasonable" was very short lived and as I thought, she had something in her back pocket that she was going to use to "not be reasonable" and not give me my car back.  Now she threatened to "get rid of my laptop".  

Back Story:  We were on a family plan and I had gotten a phone on monthly installments.  When we split and she forced me to get my own plan, they wouldn't transfer the installment payments to my account and so I told her I would pay her for those.  Well, considering after 3 months of barely talking, I forgot and so did she.  

Current Story:  I gave that phone to my D12 and got a new one.  My wife asked me last night if I still had it and when she texted, I was in the middle of taking care of her car, having dinner with my mom and returning my rental car which was a nightmare.  I told her that I was in the middle of something and would text her later, which is more than I get usually.  She blew up my phone several times, once saying, "It's amazing how you can have time to do everything else but not answer a simple text."     Complete projection and taste of her own medicine because that is exactly what she does to me.  Anyway, after not getting done till 11:30, I texted her and told her that I was home now and it was a nightmare and asked if she was still up.  She didn't respond until this morning and said, "Since you couldn't respond I guess you don't have the phone anymore."  I said that I didn't and she asked what I did with it.  I told her I gave it to my DD12 and that is when the dysregulation started.  She texted back and said, "WOW!  You need to get that back, I'm paying for that."  I literally laughed out loud   .  She then called my ex-wife and asked that my DD12 give that back as it wasn't mine to give.  My ex-wife called me and I told her to not respond and I would take care of it.  My wife then calls me and when I answered she asked if I really gave it to DD12 and I said, "Yes, I wouldn't lie about it."  She said, "Are you kidding me?  After all I've done for you?  You had no right giving that to her as I'm paying for that."  I said, "Wife, I sense that you are upset about it and that is understandable considering I forgot and we never had a conversation about it.  At the same time, I paid $160 dollars to get your car fixed and $300 for a rental car while it was getting fixed that I shouldn't have been out except that you took my car."  She said, "So, I paid $600 dollars to fix it two weeks prior to it breaking down for something else."  I responded and said, "Yes, that car was in your possession and it was yours to take care of."  She then said, "I was a user and only wanted to look good to everyone else and that is why I was carrying a new phone and gave one to my DD12 so that I could look like a hero."  I said, "I'm sorry you feel that way."  She then said that I was a user just like her ex husband and that I was no better than he was and was worthless and pathetic." I said that if she doesn't stop, I will hang up because I don't deserve to be verbally abused, and she said, "You're abusive."  I hung up. She then started blowing up my phone and left two messages.  One was two minutes where she said she was going to file the divorce paperwork and that my laptop was going "bye-bye" today."  (Sidenote: I can't believe she left that on voicemail... . )  She said that I was no good and that she was sorry that she married me and that I had no problem using her or her money for 5 years.  She closed the voicemail with, "I'm so glad I kept all your family's emails and the emails of the people at the church because now they will find out what kind of person you really are."  Then she texted and said, "Sad ending to 5 years of supporting and loving you.  You weren't worth it."  I never responded to any of it.  As I said before, there was a reason she "offered up the car", and it was because she had no intention of ever following through because she was going to create another scene... .I never got angry or raised my voice and stayed calm.  And still am.  Used to her crap by now... .

[Grey Kitty]

  Those games suck.

You sound MUCH better. Like you are accepting what your wife is doing.

Keep up your good work!

What is your plan with the phone?

I'm thinking get another phone for DD12, put it on your plan (if you want to and can afford to), and mail this one back to your wife.

Your wife is proving that she cannot be trusted with ANY shared financial responsibilities, no matter how small.

[MaroonLiquid]

 Those games suck.

You sound MUCH better. Like you are accepting what your wife is doing.

Keep up your good work!

What is your plan with the phone?

I'm thinking get another phone for DD12, put it on your plan (if you want to and can afford to), and mail this one back to your wife.

Your wife is proving that she cannot be trusted with ANY shared financial responsibilities, no matter how small.

I do truly accept her for who she is and what she struggle with.  That's also part of the reason she is has so much vitriol toward me because I have put up with too much.  I feel like the "long extinction burst" fits in her case because she can't go a couple of days without dysregulation when we are in contact.  I still believe she struggle with all that she has done and can't deal with the emotion of it.  And the fact that I am starting to stand up for myself and not give into her every whim is causing the extinction bursts on a regular basis.  She will get through it or she won't.  I don't have any plans for the phone, I paid her car note for four months and paid to have her car fixed that she forced me into.  She wanted this separation and in my opinion, she is starting to live with her choices.  She needs to know I'm not going to roll over everytime she dysregulates.  I feel that giving her the phone "gives her what she wants" after verbally abusing me and sets a bad precedent.  She has a bunch of narcissistic traits and I won't feed them. 

[Grey Kitty]

She needs to know I'm not going to roll over everytime she dysregulates.  I feel that giving her the phone "gives her what she wants" after verbally abusing me and sets a bad precedent.  She has a bunch of narcissistic traits and I won't feed them. 

I like your attitude!

OK... .do something that feels more fair to you. My idea was an easy way out, not a fair one.

Here's another one to try on for size:

Do the math yourself on this.

Add up what you paid for her car repairs and the rental car.

Calculate the monthly cost for your wife of DD12's phone.

Divide them out and see how many months you paid for in advance. (I'm guessing a lot more than three, and likely nearly to the end of the contract.)

Plan to pay the monthly share until the contract expires.

Send an email explaining this to your wife, with the calculations.

Make it clear in the email that she is responsible until the point where you will pay her back.

This email should read like a statement, not a question.

And also let your exwife know that your current solution depends on reasonable behavior from your wife which hasn't been forthcoming much... .and that if your wife does something extreme and shuts off DD12's phone, you will get her a new one on your plan, because you don't want DD12 to suffer for the problems between you and your wife. (Assuming you do wish to do this!)

[MaroonLiquid]

She needs to know I'm not going to roll over everytime she dysregulates.  I feel that giving her the phone "gives her what she wants" after verbally abusing me and sets a bad precedent.  She has a bunch of narcissistic traits and I won't feed them.  

I like your attitude!

OK... .do something that feels more fair to you. My idea was an easy way out, not a fair one.

Here's another one to try on for size:

Do the math yourself on this.

Add up what you paid for her car repairs and the rental car.

Calculate the monthly cost for your wife of DD12's phone.

Divide them out and see how many months you paid for in advance. (I'm guessing a lot more than three, and likely nearly to the end of the contract.)

Plan to pay the monthly share until the contract expires.

Send an email explaining this to your wife, with the calculations.

Make it clear in the email that she is responsible until the point where you will pay her back.

This email should read like a statement, not a question.

And also let your exwife know that your current solution depends on reasonable behavior from your wife which hasn't been forthcoming much... .and that if your wife does something extreme and shuts off DD12's phone, you will get her a new one on your plan, because you don't want DD12 to suffer for the problems between you and your wife. (Assuming you do wish to do this!)

    Let me clarify, the phone is no longer on my wife's family plan as that was the phone that I "took responsibility for" in my own name and got a new one in place of it about a month ago, so she has no access to it.  What she is being charged for is the monthly installments of 30 dollars.  

    I am going to send an email shortly stating what I have paid for the car to be repaired and the rental which totals $506 dollars plus getting the stickers renewed on the vehicle to about $110 dollars.  That brings the grand total of what I will have paid total for the van in two days to a grand total of $616 dollars.  She has paid $30 dollars on her plan for 4 months since I took responsibility for my line.  That is $120 dollars.  There is still 6 months to pay $30 which is $180 for the remainder.  That brings the grand total of what she will pay for the phone to $300 dollars.  I paid $616 dollars and she will pay $300, which leaves her owing me $316 dollars.  

    She had no problem dunning me for money all the time for two months when we first split up.  For 5 months with her, that's what it's all been about.  It's nice for the shoe to be on the other foot for a change.  One thing she said on her voicemail after listening to it again is, "How do you think it makes my kids feel that you gave your DD12 the phone?"  She doesn't understand how a dad could do that for his D when hers didn't do anything for her or the fact that her ex doesn't do anything for the kids.  I realize she is projecting her hurt and anger for her ex and the fact that he does nothing for the kids onto me.  It struck that abandonment in her.  I forgot about the car notes that I have paid for her... .Adding that in as well.

[MaroonLiquid]

Here is the email I wrote and will send tonight.  What do you think?

Wife,

     Here is what I have figured out regarding the phone.  The "installment charges" were paid for 11 months before I "took responsibility" for my line in August.  The installment contract was for 20 months at roughly $35 dollars a month.  That means there is 9 left.  Since that time, you have paid 2 with 7 remaining.

     Here is what I've been out regarding the Honda van that you should have been responsible for since the split on July 1st as we decided together that you would take the Honda and I would take the Lexus SUV:  I have paid 3 van notes, gotten the van fixed, paid for a rental car during that time and have gotten the stickers renewed.  I should not have had to pay for the repairs, the rental car or the stickers (they have been expired since July) in the first place but was forced to when you decided to not return my vehicle (SUV) on September 4th.  I was putting you and our kids first with the agreement that you would use it during the day and in the evenings when needed.  Included in that agreement, we agreed that you would bring me to work until the 6th when the van was supposed to be fixed.  You then told me if I needed a vehicle to come and get the van.

Wife:                2 installments paid for $70dollars

                       7 left for a total of $245 Dollars

                          Grand total: $315 dollars

MaroonLiquid:  3 van notes: $909 dollars

                      Van repair: $120 dollars

                      Rental Car: $355 dollars

                      Registration: $75

                      Inspection: $35

                          Grand Total: $1494 Dollars

     This brings the grand total of what you owe me to $1179 dollars, not counting my MacBook ($1200 dollar value) that you still won't return to me and have had since September.  Take the $1179 and attribute it to the remaining $1300 dollars owed on the LG washer and dryer that is in my name in your possession and we'll call it even.

MaroonLiquid

[Grey Kitty]

  I like it!

Until the last paragraph... .

Take the $1179 and attribute it to the remaining $1300 dollars owed on the LG washer and dryer that is in my name in your possession and we'll call it even.

I'm not sure about this part. It sounds like you are caving again.

You said she still owes you about $1200 plus a laptop.

I won't be surprised if she doesn't pay up.

I don't get why you are so eager to write the debt off, making it OK for her not to pay up!

Are you still making payments on the washer/dryer in her possession?

[MaroonLiquid]

I like it!

Until the last paragraph... .

Take the $1179 and attribute it to the remaining $1300 dollars owed on the LG washer and dryer that is in my name in your possession and we'll call it even.

I'm not sure about this part. It sounds like you are caving again.

You said she still owes you about $1200 plus a laptop.

I won't be surprised if she doesn't pay up.

I don't get why you are so eager to write the debt off, making it OK for her not to pay up!

Are you still making payments on the washer/dryer in her possession?

No, I haven't been, but she was asking me to help pay it off because if we do by Jan 3rd, we will have no interest.  You're right, it's caving, but I also know I will never see a dime as she accused me of.  Should I mention anything about the nasty voicemails she left me and try and validate the anger and bitterness?  She sent my ex wife an email and CC'd me and threatened to call the cops on her if she didn't return the cell phone... .   Ridiculous.  I told her NOT TO RESPOND

[howcanI?]

Jumping in here... .has anyone here ever had success with the "if you don't get into therapy, I'll divorce you" threat?  Things are the absolute worst they've ever been here.  Hubby has not showered in four days, and continues to be sullenly furious and in despair over things that are only tangentially part of objective reality.  I'm actually a little afraid of/for him, and that's kinda new for me.  Has he finally gone off the deep end?  If I maintain a successful SET disengagement (which I'm still holding on to) will he come back around?  Any experiences any one can share?

[MaroonLiquid]

My wife sent my ex-wife an email just now saying if they didnt return the phone that she would report the phone as stolen and tell them where they could find it.    She is really having difficulties over this.  HOW DARE I GIVE A PHONE I TOOK OWNERSHIP OF TO MY DD12 WHILE WE WERE SEPARATED!    She is starting to crack I'm afraid and it's sad to see.  I'm starting to worry that my ex wife will file something on my wife (harrassment or TRO) at this point.  I don't want that to happen for my wife's sake.

[Rapt Reader]

This thread has reached its post limit, and has been locked. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are encouraged to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for understanding