How should I handle this?

[EaglesJuju]

Since my bf left about 4 months ago, I have not received any pictures from him.  I asked him last night to text me a current picture.  When I saw it, I was completely shocked.  I did not recognize him. He looked like a completely different person. I never saw him look like that or want to look that before. I find the new "look" very odd. 

He kept asking me what I thought.  I told him that he looks different.  I did not know what to really say. Thankfully, it was late and I had to go to bed, so the conversation stopped. 

I can tell he wants to talk about this. He was really persistent and I know he has terrible self esteem.  I have no idea what to do. I do not want to lie nor do I want to trigger him.  It is kind of a no win situation.  Any advice on how to answer his questions?

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rapt Reader]

Well, you've got me curious, EaglesJuJu 

How is he different? New clothes? New hairstyle? Piercings? Lost or gained weight?

I guess if you are just looking to validate him and not hurt his feelings (and I concur with that, especially since he seems to approve of his own changes), you might just point out what you see, in a non-judgmental way? Acknowledge his "new look" and ask him how he feels about it? Then you would have a bit of a handle on how to react further? And more clues as to how to further validate?

I admit it will be tricky; at least you aren't doing this in person, so you can monitor your voice and words, without having to worry so much about your facial expressions and body language.

And if you think he wants to talk more about this, I would suggest letting him talk... .And just using non-judgmental questions to help him do that... .I'm sure it will be an interesting experience for you 

[EaglesJuju]

Thanks for the reply RR.   

He is wearing a new style of clothes and glasses, very hipster like.  When he was here, he told me many times that he does not like that style and I agreed that I did not like it either. I think that is why I was so shocked. I think he is mirroring his brother.

That is what is going to make it so hard to validate him. 

He did gain a lot of weight. Honestly, that did not surprise me.  I know he tends to gain a lot of weight,

when he is very depressed. 

He looked really depressed in the pictures. His eyes looked dark, like there was no light or happiness. I never saw him look like this before.  Of course, my first instinct was to be a "fixer/helper," but I stopped myself.

I will let him talk about this but, I know he will be persistent with questions. I do not know how he will react if I ask him about the new "look."  In a way it seems like he wants me to say it is unattractive.

[Rapt Reader]

Don't forget that you don't need to validate that the changes are "good", just that he made the changes and that you see them. And then listen to his reasons why, and what he sees regarding them. You can validate all of that without passing judgment on them... .And if he seems to be looking for your disapproval, you can turn that around and see if he disapproves of them, and validate that for him (his own disapproval, not yours). If he mentions his depression, you can ask him about it and validate how he feels--let him know you understand and sympathize.

That's one way of doing it 

[formflier]

 

You can use the word interesting... .he may see through that.

Ask him how he feels... .if he says happy... then you can be happy for his changes...

[EaglesJuju]

You can use the word interesting... .he may see through that.

Ask him how he feels... .if he says happy... then you can be happy for his changes...

Thanks FF. I used the word interesting when he asked me again. As you said, he questioned what that meant. 

After I originally posted, I came out with it and told him that he looks a completely different person than when I last saw him.  He said, "I don't know maybe I am not who or what you remember me to be. I don't know the real me anymore and that's who I am trying to find and be." 

He diverted the topic and started talking about and making plans to visit me on Valentines Day weekend.

Then yesterday,he told me that he has been smoking weed everyday. I was shocked since, he used to have long discussions with me about how much he hates weed.

He did mention that he was unhappy and self conscious. I tried to validate him the best I could without lying.

I showed my therapist the before and after pictures to make sure I was not overreacting, and he was shocked too. He said he has never seen anything like that or did not know what to tell me. 

This is absolutely scary and confusing for me. I have no idea what to do. 

[formflier]

 

You can tell him it means you are amazed at his changes... .a truthful honest answer.

You need time to process it...

[EaglesJuju]

You can tell him it means you are amazed at his changes... .a truthful honest answer.

You need time to process it...

I am going to try saying that I am amazed. The way he is, he is going to ask me what that means too. As I said before, he is almost pushing me to say that I am not attracted to him anymore. He has told me many times, that he is a terrible person that deserves to be alone in his own misery and depression.

It is almost a no-win situation.

I do not know how to even begin to process this. My mind is filled with confusion, uncertainty, and fear.   

[formflier]

 

Tell him you are amazed and need time... .

[Grey Kitty]

I showed my therapist the before and after pictures to make sure I was not overreacting, and he was shocked too. He said he has never seen anything like that or did not know what to tell me. 

This is absolutely scary and confusing for me. I have no idea what to do. 

Back up a step here: You are worrying about how HE will feel about YOUR reaction to HIS new appearance.

Start with this... .what are you really feeling about him now? Does he seem to be changing into somebody you are more or less interested in/attracted to? Do you want to see him around Valentines day?

Sort out your own feelings first... .then worry about what you want to share and how he might react!

[patientandclear]

To go along with the last post: what is your reaction to "maybe I am not who or what you remember me to be," and "I don't know the real me anymore?"

Even more than the appearance, those statements seem like unsettling (though honest) information.

My ex moved from our city 18 months ago. I saw him a few times after and he looked like I expected him to. But a few months after that, I saw online pics of him with his new gf. He looked really different. I could see how he was there but not there, if that makes sense. He probably was like that when he was here and we were together. But seeing him in this new context, I could see how apart from the scene he really was. Weird.

I came to see that he was almost always putting on an act to a greater or lesser degree. So unsettling to realize that.

[EaglesJuju]

Back up a step here: You are worrying about how HE will feel about YOUR reaction to HIS new appearance.

Start with this... .what are you really feeling about him now? Does he seem to be changing into somebody you are more or less interested in/attracted to? Do you want to see him around Valentines day?

Sort out your own feelings first... .then worry about what you want to share and how he might react!

He knows I am not thrilled about the weed smoking.

I am worried about upsetting him further.

I love him and that has not changed. He still has the same goals in life. He still wants to come back and continue our relationship. Everything else is the same.

I do want to see him on Valentines Day.  

I don't know if this new look is a phase or something he is doing to fit in.  

[AnnaK]

When we resumed contact after 5 yrs, my then-ex was very peculiar showing his changes on webcam. Like: "Look - I got a tummy, and I lost some hairs... .look, right here!"

I reacted quite sincerely - "come on, man, main thing you are ALIVE!"

----

Besides I have a feeling that he does not want to know if you like changes - he wants to know if you still like HIM, regardless of those changes.

[formflier]

Besides I have a feeling that he does not want to know if you like changes - he wants to know if you still like HIM, regardless of those changes.

I'm also thinking this is an opportunity for him to latch onto things that might sound "critical" and use those to create an argument.  Probably not a conscious strategy... .

[patientandclear]

Still wondering about the "maybe I'm not who you think I am" comment. Assuming everything else is the same in the face of that seems like a big assumption.

If you see him next month Eagles, presumably you'll have a lot more information to use to assess what it meant. But that comment didn't come out of nowhere.

[EaglesJuju]

Still wondering about the "maybe I'm not who you think I am" comment. Assuming everything else is the same in the face of that seems like a big assumption.

If you see him next month Eagles, presumably you'll have a lot more information to use to assess what it meant. But that comment didn't come out of nowhere.

I am upset about the comment. It makes me question everything.  He texted me 2 pictures of us together after he sent pictures of the new look. I'm assuming the old pictures are where he wants to get back to?

I am not assuming everything else is the same. He tells me that he still wants to marry me.

[formflier]

He tells me that he still wants to marry me.

When does this happen?  In what context?

[EaglesJuju]

He tells me that he still wants to marry me.

When does this happen?  In what context?

FF, he says that everytime he talks to me. Sometimes he will bring it up out of nowhere.

[formflier]

[

FF, he says that everytime he talks to me. Sometimes he will bring it up out of nowhere.

Have you ever been engaged?  Sorry if I'm not remembering much of your story by asking... .

This seems odd.

I'm a bit old fashioned... .I didn't mention marriage until I proposed. 

My advice to my daughter would be to ask him to not bring it up until he is ready to propose... .but again... I'm old fashioned.

[EaglesJuju]

[

FF, he says that everytime he talks to me. Sometimes he will bring it up out of nowhere.

Have you ever been engaged?  Sorry if I'm not remembering much of your story by asking... .

This seems odd.

I'm a bit old fashioned... .I didn't mention marriage until I proposed. 

My advice to my daughter would be to ask him to not bring it up until he is ready to propose... .but again... I'm old fashioned.

He asked me when he was here.  We lived together for four years, so the conversation came up often. At the time, I decided it was best to wait for a couple of reasons.  Mainly, I told him I would accept if he would get the treatment that he needed.   

[formflier]

He asked me when he was here.  We lived together for four years, so the conversation came up often. At the time, I decided it was best to wait for a couple of reasons.  Mainly, I told him I would accept if he would get the treatment that he needed.   

How did he respond to the "conditional yes"?  Is that still on the table? 

[EaglesJuju]

He asked me when he was here.  We lived together for four years, so the conversation came up often. At the time, I decided it was best to wait for a couple of reasons.  Mainly, I told him I would accept if he would get the treatment that he needed.   

How did he respond to the "conditional yes"?  Is that still on the table? 

He understood and agreed to it. He tried to get help here, but it was a horrible experience for him.     He decided it was in his best interest to work with a psychiatrist he had worked with for years prior to us meeting. In retrospect, it was a good decision for him to leave. 

He has not given me a specific date for returning, which is understandable.  I have been given a time frame of summer.  I have a few conditions on his return. Primarily, he needs to find a psychiatrist here. He said that is reasonable because, I do not deserve to deal with the "rollercoaster." He is very self aware of his issues.

After those conditions are met, then I will accept. 

[braveSun]

After those conditions are met, then I will accept. 

Eagles!... It looks like Valentine Day might be a bit early for a proposal than...

[formflier]

  He decided it was in his best interest to work with a psychiatrist he had worked with for years prior to us meeting. 

Will you be part of the decision that it is OK for him to come back... .or will you have to "take his word on it"?

When you guys were together how many things were decided by mutual agreement?  How many things were decided by one party and the other had to accept it... .or figure out on their own how to deal with it?

I'm asking because... .for me... .a lot of my marital happiness comes from being able to discuss something with my wife... .we each put out ideas... .and come to mutual agreement on the way forward.  Then we jointly get to evaluate... .enjoy... .whatever... the fruits of our work.

Well... .that sounded great as I typed it... .and that used to happen... .but as BPD traits have popped up in our r/s... the times where we came to mutual agreement have been few and far between.

In a way... .you have an advantage over me.  You are at the start of a possible marriage r/s and have lots of choices... .and have the ability to understand the impact of these BPD traits before committing to marriage.

If you have not been deliberate about addressing decision making... .I would highly recommend that.

How is the work with his P going?

[EaglesJuju]

Eagles!... It looks like Valentine Day might be a bit early for a proposal than...

Haha, yes most definitely. 

[EaglesJuju]

Will you be part of the decision that it is OK for him to come back... .or will you have to "take his word on it"?

It will be up to him to decide when he is ready. I cannot make that decision for him.  We have discussed the steps he needs to take to come back.  He wants to have a more detailed conversation when we meet up again. It is going to be a mutual agreement. 

When you guys were together how many things were decided by mutual agreement?  How many things were decided by one party and the other had to accept it... .or figure out on their own how to deal with it?

The way things were decided were based on a situation by situation basis. Before I was in therapy, I relied a lot on him to make decisions. A lot of that had to do with my DPD.   After I was going to therapy, I made many decisions. Overall, the "tougher" decisions were mutually agreed upon.  The only "tough" decision he made, was to leave. It was upsetting but, honestly for his own health and mine it was the best decision.   

How is the work with his P going?

He is getting better at learning to how to regulate his emotions.  He is crying less.  Also, he is getting better with the constant self-loathing. He has not had as many sessions as I thought he was having.  Apparently, the P has taken quite a few vacations with the holidays.

Honestly, some of the other problem behaviors have gotten worse. I think that has a lot to with the family constantly enabling him.  He is sleeping more than ever, was drinking heavily, and now is smoking weed.  I was furious when he told me.  I said something before about his drinking making matters worse. Apparently he stopped and now is smoking weed.  I was going to say something about the weed but, I decided to not bring it up at this time.

I am disappointed and sad.  I knew it was not going to be easy for him. He looks awful. The pictures really show how miserable he is.  My first instinct was to "help" or "fix," due to my codependency.  I have worked very hard in therapy to not be so co-dependent, so it would be counter productive for me to say anything. Although, I think it would benefit him if I said something to him.  The two family members he lives with are very immature and in a "partying" phase. 

[Grey Kitty]

I said something before about his drinking making matters worse. Apparently he stopped and now is smoking weed.  I was going to say something about the weed but, I decided to not bring it up at this time.

Sounds like a good one not to bring up. First, you can't control him and don't even have much influence.

Second... .the risks from weed (getting busted aside) really do seem far lower than the risks from drinking.

Two things kinda go together here... .emotional health gives him less need to check out (with weed or whatever). Addiction-level substance consumption makes it harder to do the work needed for good emotional health... .they can spiral down together, or spiral up together.

Heck, I've got no substance abuse issues... .but I just had to cut myself off from games on my phone when I looked at how much time I'd blown on them over the last week. Mostly because I was kinda depressed and just wanted to check out and not experience my life, or deal with the tough choices in front of me. I still don't want to deal with the stuff... .but my life won't get better from me playing a game on my phone, nor will any other part of the world!

We all have ways of coping with the crap in our lives, and we try to find healthier ones. pwBPD or non. All of us.

[EaglesJuju]

Sounds like a good one not to bring up. First, you can't control him and don't even have much influence.

The only reason why I was going to address this concern because, he has been nasty to me when he is high.

Last night he made it a point to tell me he was high. Then he started talking about weed smoking and then started getting hostile, almost looking for a reason to get into an argument. I changed the subject and he told me that he would talk to me at another time.

I am going to tell him that I do not want to speak to him while he is high.  

[formflier]

I am going to tell him that I do not want to speak to him while he is high.  

Do you want to be with someone that gets high? 

Is that the kind of person that you deserve?

[EaglesJuju]

Do you want to be with someone that gets high? 

Is that the kind of person that you deserve?

FF, no I do not want to be involved with someone who gets high.

According to him, he was a "pot head" in high school. When I met him, he told me how stupid it was and how smoking weed does not solve anything. Honestly, he is acting like an 18 year old who is finding themselves and "rebelling." I am viewing this as a phase he is going through.

I can tell he is ashamed of it because, he keeps bringing it up waiting for me to tell him how stupid it is. In my opinion, it is like a cry for help. He would never tell his parents about it. He wants me to tell him how he is messing up. I am not going to say anything at this time.  Although, I will speak to him about it when I see him.

I do not deserve to deal with this added crap. The weed makes him confrontational, hostile, and paranoid. The other behaviors are frustrating to cope with but, this exacerbates everything else. I am going to tell him that I refuse to talk to him when he is high.  He knows how I feel about it and he would never dare do it around me.     

[Grey Kitty]

The weed makes him confrontational, hostile, and paranoid. The other behaviors are frustrating to cope with but, this exacerbates everything else. I am going to tell him that I refuse to talk to him when he is high.

Excellent boundary enforcement!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[EaglesJuju]

Excellent boundary enforcement!

Thanks GK    I set the boundary last night.  Surprisingly, he responded to it rather well.

I did not have to say anything else. He took it upon himself to bring up the other things, like his recent "behavior" and the new "look."  He summed it up by saying that he misses me and wants to come back. This was a perfect opportunity to discuss my concerns.

I told him that he needs to get his ___ together before he thinks about coming back. I said to him, "You went out there to be happier and healthier, it appears that you are neither. The more that you work on yourself, the quicker you can come back." Then he told me, that he has been messing up and this new look and behavior is not him. He is now going to be serious about working on himself."

Also, I told him that he should not come out for Valentines Day.  I am giving him more time to take care of himself and I will visit him a couple of weeks later.   

[formflier]

 

I think this is good response.

At some point you will need to be clear about your zero tolerance issues. 

I'm glad you will not be involved with a pothead. 

If he wants to be with you... .at some point he will gladly submit to whatever testing and oversight you require for this.

If not... .then you know his actions and words aren't matching. 

[EaglesJuju]

I think this is good response.

At some point you will need to be clear about your zero tolerance issues. 

I'm glad you will not be involved with a pothead. 

If he wants to be with you... .at some point he will gladly submit to whatever testing and oversight you require for this.

If not... .then you know his actions and words aren't matching. 

I think it was a really good response. I came to find out that him constantly telling me about it was a "cry for help."

He took responsibility for it and told me that he was ashamed for this behavior. Also, he said he knows who he is and this behavior is not the man he is or the man I deserve.

He never smoked weed here. Two of my siblings are heavily into weed and offered him it all the time, but he never smoked it. I made it very clear before that I do not want weed in my house. That boundary will stay the same when he returns.

I set a boundary with alcohol before he left.  He was getting out of control with alcohol, drinking every time he could not handle his emotions. He agreed that it was getting out of control and that was one of the reasons he went to get help.

The problem is he uses substances for coping. With his impulsivity and the disorder, it becomes excessive.  This is something that he needs to work on with his psychiatrist.

[Grey Kitty]

Keep up the good boundary work!

And don't expect him to be easy/supportive about it all the time.

The problem is he uses substances for coping. With his impulsivity and the disorder, it becomes excessive.  This is something that he needs to work on with his psychiatrist.

Yup.

The substances create their own secondary issues after he goes there... .and you should protect yourself from them.

Real progress will be either looking at the underlying issues... .or finding better coping mechanisms. All of which needs comes from him, not you. Good thing he is in T.

How do you feel about letting this part go and letting it be his issue?

[EaglesJuju]

And don't expect him to be easy/supportive about it all the time.

I know. Although, since he has been in therapy more frequently, the communication has dramatically improved.

Real progress will be either looking at the underlying issues... .or finding better coping mechanisms. All of which needs comes from him, not you. Good thing he is in T.

He has a lot of problems with compulsive and reckless behavior. Binge eating is another one of his vices unfortunately.

He shared with me a list of things that he wants to continue to work on in therapy.  The number one thing was coping mechanisms. As condescending as it sounds, I am really proud of him for recognizing these behaviors.

How do you feel about letting this part go and letting it be his issue?

I feel amazing. Letting him deal with his own crap works three fold: it helps me with my DPD/co-dependency, it alleviates unnecessary stress from me, and it makes him accountable/responsible for his behaviors.

Setting boundaries feels amazing as well. I have come a long way with my own therapy. I could not imagine saying the things I said a year and a half ago.  He even commented that he was proud I am setting boundaries.  

I do not want to be his mother or therapist.    

[formflier]

 

EaglesJuju,

Are you ok with him smoking weed as long as it is not in your house?

to me... .seems like big difference.

I would hope you can look at yourself and decide... .I'm important... .and I'm "worth" more than having a r/s with a "weed smoker". 

That is very different than saying you are ok with being with a "weed smoker"... .as long as it isn't in your house.

[EaglesJuju]

EaglesJuju,

Are you ok with him smoking weed as long as it is not in your house?

to me... .seems like big difference.

I would hope you can look at yourself and decide... .I'm important... .and I'm "worth" more than having a r/s with a "weed smoker". 

That is very different than saying you are ok with being with a "weed smoker"... .as long as it isn't in your house.

FF,

The way I wrote that may have come across as ambiguous.  I will not tolerate smoking weed, whether it be in my house or any where else, from him. He never smoked weed when he lived here.  He knows that I will not tolerate it. Hell, he has even commented how dumb it is when my brother gets high every night and how that is unfair to my sister in law.   I have been direct and said that I am not marrying a weed smoker.


 

[formflier]

 I have been direct and said that I am not marrying a weed smoker.

How long must he be sober and weed free to consider moving back... .?

[EaglesJuju]

How long must he be sober and weed free to consider moving back... .?

I think the weed problem will be concurrently fixed with therapy. I am thinking May. This will give him enough time to work on his core issues and coping mechanisms.  Realistically, I know that a couple more months of therapy will not fix everything.  Basically, he needs to be in a better place mentally than he is now and to be weed free for a couple of months.

[formflier]

How long must he be sober and weed free to consider moving back... .?

I think the weed problem will be concurrently fixed with therapy. I am thinking May. This will give him enough time to work on his core issues and coping mechanisms.  Realistically, I know that a couple more months of therapy will not fix everything.  Basically, he needs to be in a better place mentally than he is now and to be weed free for a couple of months.

Will going back to weed... .(if that ever happens) be treated the same as cheating... .?  Once he comes back... .how will you explain your boundaries?

[EaglesJuju]

Will going back to weed... .(if that ever happens) be treated the same as cheating... .?  Once he comes back... .how will you explain your boundaries?

It certainly will be treated with the same seriousness as cheating.

I found that writing out things, like an email or document, works best before we discuss things. I will send it to him to look at before we talk. He has done the same with things he wants to address.

It helps with his impulsivity, when he writes it out before hand. Also writing it out before hand, helps me stay on topic.

Both of us have more productive conversations/communication this way. There has been less arguing, JADE, and more mutual agreement.

I have done this before with personal space boundaries (before he left) and it worked rather well. He tends to respond well when things are direct and clearly stated.

I would directly tell him that I do not want weed involved in my life and that includes him smoking it. I really would have to think about how I would say it without it coming across as too ultimatum like. Ultimatums trigger him badly. I think there is a difference between boundaries and ultimatums.

I believe the weed smoking will not continue here. He is respectful of my views/feelings on being healthy. In my opinion, smoking weed while having many mental health issues is not healthy.

Also, he knows that being around weed is bad for me and my career. He most likely will return to his old job, which drug tests him. 

I really am not worried about it.  

The main thing is, I cannot control him when he is here with me. I especially, cannot control what he is doing thousand of miles away from me. I can only set strong boundaries.

[formflier]

I would directly tell him that I do not want weed involved in my life and that includes him smoking it. I really would have to think about how I would say it without it coming across as too ultimatum like. Ultimatums trigger him badly. I think there is a difference between boundaries and ultimatums.

Excellent observation and point. 

Express it as a value.  I am valuable enough that I choose to be in a drug free relationship.