How To Deal With Kids Triangulating OP?

[Turkish]

My Ex recently got engaged to the Homewrecker while on vacation in the EU. I had D2 and S4 for 11 days while she was gone. She thought I didn't know and requested an in-person meeting soon, to which I at first agreed. Then I stood up for myself in my mind and said, "if this is to tell me about the kids' proposed stepdad, then I don't feel that a meeting is necessary. 3 days, no answer. I had a question on whether she was going to bring him to her nephew's 1st bday party next week or not so I could plan accordingly. I told her sister a month ago I would come, but this was before the engagement. I don't want to triangulate her sis, so I've been waiting for a response. It's my weekend with the kids. I'm still debating upon going. 3 days, and no answer thus far.

Just now, she called me. D2.5 was crying. She's at the stage where a baby talks a lot,but you can't always understand what they say. Her mom told me that she was upset because she wanted S4's scissors which he was using to do his homework. Typical toddler, right?

D2 went into their room and saw the one picture she has of us, at her baptism. Said, ":)addy!" Her mom said, "do you want to call daddy?" So they did.

D2 was crying, trying to explain to me in her toddler talk, so her mom intepreted. I tried to validate D2.5, but also told her that her brother needed to do his homework. I talked to her mom for a minute, and said we may need to discuss child triangulation at a later date, not on speaker phone. I said goodbye to the kids and hung up.

Obviously, she reached out to me for help. In an intact home,.I'd say this type of triangulation is normal, "go ask mommy!" Or daddy. I am wondering how anyone else here deals with this, no matter your r/s with your Ex.

[pessim-optimist]

D2 was crying, trying to explain to me in her toddler talk, so her mom intepreted. I tried to validate D2.5, but also told her that her brother needed to do his homework. I talked to her mom for a minute, and said we may need to discuss child triangulation at a later date, not on speaker phone. I said goodbye to the kids and hung up.

Obviously, she reached out to me for help. In an intact home,.I'd say this type of triangulation is normal, "go ask mommy!" Or daddy. I am wondering how anyone else here deals with this, no matter your r/s with your Ex.

I'd say that triangulating is a very normal child behavior, or rather - human behavior in general .

If you are in a cooperative situation with your ex, I'd say that by presenting a united front you teach the child to take one parent's word for it without trying to get their way with the other parent.

What is your goal in this? Are you trying to teach your d2 to stop triangulating or are you trying to coach your ex in how to deal with this?

[Turkish]

S4 hasn't done it so far. Hard to say with D2.5. I think my primary goal is to be firm with our daughter. Their mom reaches out to me sometimes for a rescue. I got good advice from my T yesterday and how to coach my Ex to present a united front. Now that a step-father (I.e., The Homewrecker) may be in the picture more, I'm trying to figure out how this will go. She wants to talk to me sans the kids this weekend at a family party I promised her little sister I would go to. She's been trying to arrange an off line in person meeting for the past week, but after several BIFF exchanges by email, I finally put that to rest. She's being evasive. I'll align with her on things regarding the kids as best I can, and stuff my feelings.

All in all, I might discuss triangulation,.and how it's different in seperate households. I wish I could say, "your household, you handle it," but then she'll get more verbally abusive to the kids. The thing is that I don't want to teach the kids unhealthy behaviors. I'll give some grace to a 2 year old, but this I the tim to nip it in the bud. She's an emotinally resilient kid.

[livednlearned]

I wish I could say, "your household, you handle it," but then she'll get more verbally abusive to the kids. The thing is that I don't want to teach the kids unhealthy behaviors.

This is the slippery slope. It's the "if this, then that" slope of dealing with someone who has PD traits. You're really mindful of it, but it's always going to be there, unfortunately.

One possibility is to stay out of the triangle by focusing on your ex's moment of coping/not coping. "Are you doing ok? It sounds like this feels stressful to you right now." Focus on validating her, and coach her instead of D. It takes a lot to be able to do that, and I'm not sure I could. But when I think about Bill Eddy's book on raising resilient kids, his model of managed emotions, moderate behaviors, and flexible thinking -- the goal is about resilience. You help your ex check into her need for validation (she is not coping well), and try to streamline that skill instead of teaching D that you can potentially be triangulated (different than validating her). 

[Turkish]

I wish I could say, "your household, you handle it," but then she'll get more verbally abusive to the kids. The thing is that I don't want to teach the kids unhealthy behaviors.

This is the slippery slope. It's the "if this, then that" slope of dealing with someone who has PD traits. You're really mindful of it, but it's always going to be there, unfortunately.

One possibility is to stay out of the triangle by focusing on your ex's moment of coping/not coping. "Are you doing ok? It sounds like this feels stressful to you right now." Focus on validating her, and coach her instead of D. It takes a lot to be able to do that, and I'm not sure I could. But when I think about Bill Eddy's book on raising resilient kids, his model of managed emotions, moderate behaviors, and flexible thinking -- the goal is about resilience. You help your ex check into her need for validation (she is not coping well), and try to streamline that skill instead of teaching D that you can potentially be triangulated (different than validating her). 

This sounds like the right way to go, lnl. I can see where you wouldn't want to do it with your NPDx, since he was so abusive and dysregulated. My uBPD has some narc traits, but unless I trigger her, they are pretty passive: mostly she thinking what she does is the correct thing to do. But the BPD traits overwhelm her, which triggers shame, and then her depression. It only happened once over the summer where she felt the need to reach out for me, and I did a pretty good job of validation. Nevermind that months later, it seemed she forgot what I told her and thinks it's funny that the kids stand up to her anger.

I get angry at the kids. I had them both crying the other night before bedtime because they were messing around rather than brushing their teeth and climbing into bed. I felt badly (not shame), then sat with them in bed for a while until they were calmer, hugging them and stroking their heads. The next morning, they were right as rain. They've never stood up to me like they do their mom "Mommy, you need to be more patient," says S4, or "Timeout, Mommy!" says D2. Might be a Dad thing, too. Never underestimate the Stentorian Voice!

Saying to their mom, "you know, you really need to deal with them better. They're little kids, you're the adult!" I can see is invalidating, even if the truth. I used to invalidate her quite a bit, "why are you getting mad over stupid little stuff?" Or I'd withdraw and give her the silent treatment, retreating (my FOO fleas), being another invalidation (ST=abandonment).

If I can keep her at a distance, despite her continued attempts to involve me in her personal life on a level beyond the kids, then I think I can do it. I'm really kind of weirded out by her continued attempts this week to set up a meeting. This is no matter how angry I am that she can't handle some of what I view as simple, normal, kid-raising things. As my T said last year, "A lot of your anger is probably due to not accepting that she is who she is. You're expecting her to be someone she is not."

[livednlearned]

Yeah, I would be weirded out by that too -- her wanting to tell you face to face and insisting on it.

In someone with healthy emotional regulation, I can see it as wanting to be respectful, to connect so it isn't handled awkwardly by phone or email.

But someone who has her level of emotional immaturity may be wanting to see the emotional pain you experience as validation that you still find her meaningful, or whatever it is that she doesn't feel without someone paying attention to her.