To Pursue or Not To Pursue?

[Restored2]

JRT, I don't really consider myself "a religious man", despite being a born again Christian.  I'm not into the "religious thing" at all.  I have a real spiritual connection and relationship with God through Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.  I talk with God about everything.  Your changing from asking to thanking God for her and your other blessings is a good shift towards gratefulness, regardless of how it all plays out with her.  I encourage you to continue to hold on to the other blessings from God in your life that He has given you.  Imagine where you would be if you didn't have those breakthrough blessings on top of this devastating relationship twist... .

Marriage vows are very sacred and literal to me as well.  I agree with you, that some people wouldn't know a good thing if it bit them on the nose.

As for your question about you catching her following you on facebook.  I'm not a techie kind of guy, so I don't even know how it is possible to catch anyone following someone on facebook.  How does this work?  Either way, in my opinion for her to be following you on facebook would indicate to me a couple of possible positions.  One, she is still interested in you and your life with not wanting to totally detach from you.  Two, she is seeking evidence as fuel that you are "bad mouthing" her and your relationship or that you have simply replaced her with someone new.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[JRT]

You and I are pretty much on the same page as far as faith... .glad to hear.

I AM a techie. While there IS a way to monitor your FB visitors. mine was more of a ruse that i had concocted that worked and worked like a charm. Long story, but I caught her and I am 100% certain. Maybe she is waiting for me to intro a new GF or badmouth her but I have not said as much as a worked about it on FB nor said anything, ANYTHING about her after the b/u. Though, she knows that I put a profile up on the dating site we met on so the possibility that she is waiting for the other foot to drop is possible... .but why wouldn't she try to stop it if she cared? Or, if she were still interested, why in the world would she still be willing to call the cops on me if I attempted to contact her? I feel like I am trying to solve a crime here!

[Restored2]

That's very cool to hear that we are pretty much on the same faith page with God.

That's quite the unveiling you managed to catch your ex following you on facebook.  I should look into the process for monitoring my facebook visitors. 

To answer your questions, it's all speculation on our ends.  Nothing seems to make any sense with her or mine.  It's impossible to rationalize irrational behavour, so save yourself from riding the crazy train.  By the way, I preach to myself here, as much as I do to you or anyone else in this department.  From all that I have educated myself on with BPD people, they tend to cut off and chase away the very people that they actually want and need to have in their lives.  It's their fears of intimacy (closeness) with fear of being engulfed (losing themselves) in a relationship that can drive them to act out the opposite of what they truly want and desire.  Namely to be in intimacy (closeness) in a loving and secure relationship.  I know, it's a really confusing and messed up way of thinking.  I told mine just before she broke up with me that it felt like she was chasing me away with a stick.  Her reply was that she didn't mean to. 

It does feel like trying to solve a crime indeed.

[Restored2]

Hey JRT.  You mentioned earlier about there being a way to monitor one's facebook visitors.  I posed the question to facebook's Help Center.  Below is their response:

"Can I know who’s looking at my Timeline or how often it’s being viewed?  No. Facebook doesn't let you track who views your profile or your posts (ex: your photos). Third-party apps are also unable to do this.  If you come across an app that says it can show you who's viewing your profile or posts, please report the app."

Is there another way to do this?

[JRT]

Here you go:

www.geekscab.com/2014/01/how-to-track-facebook-profile-visitors.html

Doesn't do EVERYTHING you want and it is time consuming but it is effective.

I did one better and created a ruse to smoke mine out... .it very much worked and I was able to confirm 100%

[Restored2]

Thanks, JRT.  For some reason, I can't seem to make it work properly.  I enter the ID number and it returns back to my home page.  Any suggestions?

How did your "ruse" work?

[JRT]

Not sure what you are doing wrong... .remember it is for Chrome only.

The ruse worked like this:

She left some stuff here... .some of it is junk but she left a trunk full of family heirlooms, mementos that are priceless, in a large steamer trunk. I suspected her of stalking me for a long time and wanted to flush her out this way so I set my profile to Public a long time a go. I took a picture of the trunk and put it on face book with the caption, "My New Years resolution is to get rid of all of this junk in my basement... .I began to drag this trunk out to the curb until I realized that someone might want it. Claim it this weekend or I will have to send it to the landfill'.

It wasn't the next day (and I have a theory for that) but it was the very next, FIRST thing in the morning that one of her GF's IM'd me (let me know if you would like to see the transcript... .it would be interesting to see what you might be able to read between the lines). The thing that was all wrong about this was that this GF and my ex were never really on good terms... .she either searched for a day and found no one that would do her dirty work for her until she found this one as a dupe, or she got her to agree to allow her to logon to her account. Either way, the long pauses in between responses suggested more. WOW, it was like talking to a 4th grade girl; denying that they even wanted the stuff over and over until they finally admitted that they did't but strongly felt that it was over the top for me to insist that my ex make the request herself. They even denied that my ex was stalking my page!

Either way, thats the way that I did it. Ya now; her shame must be so great, that she she never even bothered to contact me to claim her stuff. As far as she nows, I folowed up on my promise and tossed it. Her rage and aversion is THAT strong. Incredible... .

[Restored2]

Thanks, JRT.  I went through firefox, so maybe that is the problem.

Sounds like an interesting "ruse" you put together, indeed!  I'm open to see the transcript.

[JRT]

I found the denials interesting and and her insisting that I didn't care... .wonder how to interpret that... .I also found it interesting that she pretty much ended the IM exchange right after I  told her that I didn't want my ex back and her last statement was statement was ridiculously childish... .I am certain that my ex was either on the other end, or on the telephone with her taking dictation.

GF When would be a good time to pick up c's trunk

JRT Did c ask you to do this?


GF Nope

But it is hers and i wld like to get for.her

JT-How do you know about it?

GF Not tying to get into a lengthy conversation.is it spoken for or can i grab it

JRT C is a big girl... .what she did was terrible to D and I and caused us a lot of hurt . ... we deserve an explanation from her... .if she wants her trunk and its contents  she and she alone will make arrangements to pick it up

JRTSorry... .non negotiable

GF K

JRTIt will gone on Saturday. ... it is full of stuff that is highly sentimental and meaningful to her

I told myself that I would be an ___hole if I got rid of it

But her actions against me give me very little choice

GF  Well u are and she doesn't want it

JT How so? I never hurt her

JT All that I want is an explanation. ... is that being an ass?

JT I liked you and all of c's friends. ... I know she has painted me black to all of you guys but I was very good to her... .this has left us confused and hurt

JT Anyway ... .I hope things are going well with you... .I know we didn't have much comings and goings but I miss you and all of c's friends

JT If she is to change her mind on the trunk, she will need to do it no later than Saturday as that is when it is being clamied

GF She will not. So give it away

JT Remember. ... all that is needed to retrieve it is an explanation

GF Again. Give it away

JT Do you know what is inside?

JT This is an easy thing to do

GFShe knows

JT Then why is she being so stubborn?

JT What is she doing visiting my facebook page as much as she does?

JT a phone call solves this problem

GFShe doesnt... .trust me.

JT Then why did you reach out to me to begin with?

JT why did she bring it to your attention?

JT Why did she even bother to save this stuff if she is willing for me to throw it out?

JT I WANT her to have this... .

GF Its ovr... .give away the trunk move on.

JT Ok

JT I HAVE moved on... .but we still are owed an explanation

JT She needs to move on... .I know how often she checks on me

JT  can we just be serious?

GFUh ya... .lets be serious.  She does not nor.will ever. Check your fb and or anything else.

JT Ok

JT Here is my offer... .I am happy to make available all of her property including the trunk upon condition that she herself makes arrangements to pick it up and provide me with an explanation but why she disappeared from our relationship the way that she did

JT Otherwise all of her property gets thrown away or disposed of per the advice of her attorney

JT I am being more than reasonable here

GF THROW IT AWAY. IF SHE CARED FOR THOSE THINGS. WOULD SHE HAVE LEFT THEM? KNOWING SHE WASN'T COMING BK FOR THEM EVER.  Let it go and move on,

JT She abandons a lot of things that are important ... .should be easy for her to not miss this stuff

JT I know I will feel badly about this forever but it will all be given away on Saturday

JT please don't tell me to let it go... .I have. ... I don't want her back... .

GF Omg... .thats bulls**t. If u really cared that it was so important to her there wldnt be conditions. Drop it

JT If she really cared then she would have given us an explanation for her actions... .hell, she would have told me that something was bothering her in the first place! Now I'M the bad guy?

JT I cared immensely and you guys,all saw it... .I'm not sure what she is telling you guys about me but I am sure that it would bum me out to know... .

GF Yes she wants her things but shouldnt have to see or speak to u to get them...

JT I f her family and friends cared as much as I did, you would start asking her hard questions

JT Why not?

JT Her lawyer GAVE them to me... .he instructed me to throw them out... .because I care, I kept them

JT Think about this:... .it's an honest offer... .I don't mean her any harm at all... .part of my heart still has feelings for her.  I know all about what drove this and I hope that she is sorting it out.  I am SO glad that you guys are there to support her and give her strength... ... .but I have to do what I have to do as well... .hurry; after this weekend she (and evey one that is at all associated  with her including you) will be legally prohibited from contacting me

JTBest wishes to you

JT One additional offer: if C would like to do this, say, in the presence of an intermediary (a therapist if she happens to be seeing one), I am ok with that. Just let me know

[Restored2]

Thank you for sharing, JRT.  This is quite the dramatic IM.  There is much to read between the lines and it does appear that your ex was on the other end in some capacity.

Her insisting that you didn't care sounds like a prodding to get you to reveal your heart.

I'm curious why you would say some of the things that you said to chase your ex-fiance away, with comments like:

"... .please don't tell me to let it go... .I have. ... I don't want her back... ."

"... .but I have to do what I have to do as well... .hurry; after this weekend she (and evey one that is at all associated  with her including you) will be legally prohibited from contacting me."

[JRT]

to be honest, it was me being angry... .It was me saying "you don't have power over me'... .pulling myself away... .I didn't have the benefit of deliberating on the dialog... .it was probably not best representative of my thoughts or not necessarily the best thing to say but will clearly need to live with these remarks... .oh, I also considered threatening her with a ppo against her and her son for cyberstalking and a threat that he had made to me on a chance meeting at the local mall. I was just about to have a lawyer send a letter but decided to not even bother.

Overall, I hope that I represented myself as being rational, and reasonable. I didn't want to lash out or demonstrate any disrespect but wanted to be firm.

I thought about the 'you don't care' remark as well and found it to be very surprising. She did a disappearing act on me without warning and blocked all contact after moving in just three weeks prior. She blocked every conceivable form of contact with me and even called the cops on me when I tried to call from an unblocked line on xmas eve!  When we were together, I was very conspicuous in demonstrating my care and devotion to her to the extent that I wondered if it was too obvious. Its odd that she would say that but maybe thats part of how she is painting me black... .

I went above and beyond during our relationship (not complaining at all, I was glad to do so) and did everything imaginable to circle back after the relationship to overcome her blocking (to the extent that I risked legal impact)... .in light of my efforts, I thought that stuck out like a sore thumb

[Restored2]

I totally understand, JRT.  I don't blame you at all.  These relationship fall outs can be intensely volatile and stir up a flood of emotions that can be extremely difficult to manage.  It is a helpless feeling of being powerless, with a desire to gain some power in return.  Not having the benefit of deliberating on the dialog with it being instant messaging (IM) is not an easy way to discuss either.  Email would have been a better route.

As I think you know, mine did the same abrupt blocking out game that yours did to you.  For me this is extremely confusing and hurtful, as I did absolutely nothing to warrant such cold and harsh mistreatment from her.  I treated her like a princess.

There is no sense in the senselessness of it all.

[JRT]

I too, treated mine as a princess... .I am sorry that you have to go through this... .how long have you been b/u now? How long in nc?

Your observation has been haunting me today as I wonder if she is of the opinion that I really do not care... .blows my mine that she would think so even on a bad day... .I wonder if this came from her or was an errant comment from her friend.

[Restored2]

Thank you for your sensitivity, JRT.  

She broke up with me on August 20th, 2014, so it has been just over 5 months now of torment.  I broke NC 6 weeks after she broke up with me, which would be about 3.5 months ago around the beginning of October, 2014.  

When I broke NC, I called her from a public phone as she blocked out my phone.  She immediately answered her cell phone.  I pleasantly said hello and calmly asked her how she was doing.  She gave a standoffish reply of; "Fine".  I said; "I just want to talk".  She replied; "I don't want to talk.  I've got company over."  I saw this as an opportunity to possibly talk at a more convenient time later on, so I asked; "Could we talk later then?"  Her reply was again; "I don't want to talk".  I was concerned that she may abruptly end the call at any moment, so I quickly asked her; ":)id you receive any of my text messages and emails?"  She replied with an affirmative; "No".  I knew without needing to ask that this meant that I was officially blocked out from communications with her.  I then said; "You don't need to be so cold and harsh.  You don't need to hate me."  She replied with a sincere affirmative; "I don't hate you."  Then she shifted to a cheery voice as if we were going to speak again in only 20 minutes; "Gotta go... .Talk to ya later... ."  I was speechless and hung up the phone with my heart in my hand.    

I also discretely dropped off to her home "doorstep" Christmas cards and chocolates as a present to her and her 5 children for this past Christmas.  I have not heard a peep from her at all.  I miss her and her 5 children greatly, as they included me into their lives and family.  We were all looking at being one BIG family with marriage in the future.  

For clarification, I didn't see you as saying anything about you not caring for your ex. However, you did make it very clear for her to keep away from you, giving the message of you not ever wanting her to come back again.  Is this what you really wanted to convey?

[JRT]

Sorry to hear about this... .i just read an outstanding thread here that would explain a lot about her behavior... .let me know and I can search it out... .it essentially establishes that the more forcefully that they block you, the more that you meant to them and other revelations.

As for what I said, that is what I had meant to say at the time. I wish that I was an expert at what to say to a BPD sometimes... .sigh

[Restored2]

JRT:  Thank you for your sensitivity and for letting me know about the "outstanding thread here that would explain a lot about her behavior... .it essentially established that the more forcefully that they block you, the more that you meant to them and other revelations".  I think the thread that you are referring to was started by "jammo1989" entitled One BPD's Perspective On Relationships and Breakups (Part 2).  I have been in the mix of those communication posts and it is a very enlightening thread indeed.  "jammo1989" has given me much hope and encouragement through what he posted.  Is this the same thread that you are referring to?

I hear ya on wishing to be an expert communicator when dealing with a BPD person.  We may all be professional BPD communicators as our learning/experience advances.  Something tells me that it is a never ending learning curve though... .

[JRT]

Yes... .thats the one... .it was very enlightening to me.

[Restored2]

I thought so, JRT.  It has been quite enlightening to me too.  There are some great posts by people here on bpdfamily.

[BlackHoleSun]

Thank you for your sensitivity, JRT.  

She broke up with me on August 20th, 2014, so it has been just over 5 months now of torment.  I broke NC 6 weeks after she broke up with me, which would be about 3.5 months ago around the beginning of October, 2014.  

When I broke NC, I called her from a public phone as she blocked out my phone.  She immediately answered her cell phone.  I pleasantly said hello and calmly asked her how she was doing.  She gave a standoffish reply of; "Fine".  I said; "I just want to talk".  She replied; "I don't want to talk.  I've got company over."  I saw this as an opportunity to possibly talk at a more convenient time later on, so I asked; "Could we talk later then?"  Her reply was again; "I don't want to talk".  I was concerned that she may abruptly end the call at any moment, so I quickly asked her; ":)id you receive any of my text messages and emails?"  She replied with an affirmative; "No".  I knew without needing to ask that this meant that I was officially blocked out from communications with her.  I then said; "You don't need to be so cold and harsh.  You don't need to hate me."  She replied with a sincere affirmative; "I don't hate you."  Then she shifted to a cheery voice as if we were going to speak again in only 20 minutes; "Gotta go... .Talk to ya later... ."  I was speechless and hung up the phone with my heart in my hand.    

I also discretely dropped off to her home "doorstep" Christmas cards and chocolates as a present to her and her 5 children for this past Christmas.  I have not heard a peep from her at all.  I miss her and her 5 children greatly, as they included me into their lives and family.  We were all looking at being one BIG family with marriage in the future.  

For clarification, I didn't see you as saying anything about you not caring for your ex. However, you did make it very clear for her to keep away from you, giving the message of you not ever wanting her to come back again.  Is this what you really wanted to convey?

No offence meant but, in my experience, what you describe above is everything that will turn someone with BPD off you once you've split up.

If THEY break up with YOU... .ignore them. Don't plead, don't beg. Let them come to you. If they don't, its over. Its that simple. The number 1 reason they leave and stay away is because you have been replaced with someone else that meets their NEEDS better.

If they've blocked you then, they've blocked you for a reason - they don't want to talk to you. Don't treat the person any differently just because they have a PD. That's a big mistake that people can make, which can lead to all sorts of trouble. For example - she/he possibly has BPD, so i'll keep reaching out and telling them i'm not leaving them, even when the person with possible BPD is making it clear they're just not interested anymore and genuinely want to be left alone!

One way of looking at BPD is that it is all based around NEED. If they NEED you, they'll come back to you, if they don't... .they won't! Chasing them tells them that you're a pushover, that you're weak and its likely to just irritate and annoy them. If you're painted black it'll also make things 10x worse. From what you say above though, i'd say you're def not painted black. She would be raging at you and telling you that she hates every fiber of your being! However, being painted black shows that they are still invested in you, they still having feelings for you. What you describe above sounds like indifference. BPDs can lose all feelings for the person they once had strong feelings for overnight.

People with Cluster B disorders can be highly attuned to your body language, facial expressions, tone of voice etc too. This means they can read you like a book. If they sense you're frightened of losing them, sense desperation in your voice, then they'll realise they've got you and at this point may even take pleasure in toying with you and messing with YOUR emotions to make themselves feel better, especially if they are co-morbid with another Cluster B disorder. Telling you that she'll phone later then not phoning seems like a classic mind game. She wants you to be waiting, wants you to be wondering why she didn't phone. Sounds like she knows she's got you trapped and likes having the control over you. 

[JRT]

BHS

But doesn't SOME sort of contact reinforce that the non did not abandon them? 

Ok... .point taken on push/pull... .so if there IS a strategy to getting them to return, besides NC, what would that be?

[BlackHoleSun]

BHS

But doesn't SOME sort of contact reinforce that the non did not abandon them? 

Ok... .point taken on push/pull... .so if there IS a strategy to getting them to return, besides NC, what would that be?

To your first question... .

The best advice i can give is to stop focusing on the person with BPD and the disorder itself and focus on your own actions. BE TRUE TO YOURSELF! If you would try contacting someone after a healthy, "normal" relationship breaks up then, go ahead and do it. That way you will have no regrets. There will be no - what if i had done this? What if i had tried that? This tends to happen a lot in these kind of relationships, you start to lose yourself and question yourself and search for answers and solutions that you're just never going to find.

In terms of abandonment... .

In my experience of BPD, the sufferer will test you early on, then they will push you and when they finally realise you're not going to leave them and they've decided 100% they don't NEED you in some way then, they will leave you. At this point it doesn't matter what you do, they are not coming back... .unless they decide they NEED you again. Note this difference - they don't actually WANT you, they NEED you.

So, in terms of your last question... .

That's actually very easy to answer. Sadly though, the answer is something that most Nons really don't want to hear and so tend to ignore. They will try to come back if they NEED you in some way. If they don't, they won't. Its that simple. Its all about them.

[Restored2]

BlackHoleSun: No offense taken.  Thanks for your input. 

It seems like whatever one does with a BPD person is a, damned if you do, damned if you don't, kind of scenario.  If there is anything I am continuing to learn about this disorder, it is that there is not a one size that fits all mold for anyone.

I think there needs to be a balance of backing off to give someone space, yet letting them know that you are not indifferent to them leaving you.  That you value them enough to pursue them on some level.  If mine was outright offended by my goodwill gestures, she could let me know via a letter telling me to stop, with returning the Christmas cards and chocolates to my doorstep as a message.  They are not helpless little creatures in their response to defend themselves.   

As for them blocking you, sometimes the reasons for them blocking you are not as straight forward as one might perceive on the surface.  Blocking can be seen as another form of self-sabotage through their over reactive behavior.  Mine had pushed me away before and told me that she was glad that I had initiated contact back with her.  I asked her why then she wouldn't have contacted me.  Her response was that despite her really wanting to, there was something that held her back from contacting me and she simply could not explain it.  She also told me that she wanted to be pursued.

Mine was very high functioning on the waif level.  She never raged at me ever.  I don't believe rage is the defining response to being painted black.  Abrupt push backs that are cold and harsh can be another expression of them painting one black too.  It can be seen as another way to push away their own feelings from being attached to someone when they still have strong feelings for them.  There are variations in all of this. 

For clarification, she never said that she would call me later.  What she said was; "Gotta go... .Talk to ya later... ."  It was a leaving the door open kind of response.  Either way, it is a control issue.

Everyone needs to do what they feel is appropriate in their particular situation to not have regrets of the "what if's" down the road.  Hopefully, we can all walk out our journey's in wisdom with no regrets.

[JRT]

restored, it seems that you and I have similar stories... .my ex didn't rage either and, like you, after the last recycles she had indicated that her expectation was that I come back and get her, that I chase her... .she has blocked me but subverting her blocked phone earned me a call from the local cops (talk about dammed if you do and dammed if you don't!)... .meanwhile, she is stalking my FB page and had unblocked me on her phone at one point... .i also know that there was no replacement any of the previous times and in between relationships, she tends to steer clear of men... .I almost have the sense that what this is really about is that she needed to just get away to straighten matters out in her head (though it obviously came out a different way).

How long since your b/u? What do you intend to do about this (sorry if there is any redundancy).

[Restored2]

JRT: I think you're right, in that we have similar stories.  The double speech from them is all very confusing. 

Mine told me that she steered clear of men like the plague after her marriage was over and just prior to me.  I knew her well before she ever got married, so I was a safe haven of sorts.  I fully believe that she has gone back to steering clear of men since she broke up with me too.  I can see how mine would have run away "to straighten matters out in her head", as you referred to for yours.

To answer your questions.  She broke up with me on August 20th, 2014, which has been just over a grueling 5 months now.  I am preparing to send a letter to her sister-in-law and 3 closest girlfriends that she is in an accountable position with.  Otherwise, none of them will know the truth to help set her free.  The letter is not a smear campaign or a presentation to make me look better.  It will outline how our relationship played out with her behavioral traits and abrupt cold breakup from me.  Basically, a play-by-play in order to make them all aware that there is something off balance requiring support and help for her.  There is no identifying the issue as being BPD either, as that could really backfire on me.  I believe that if I do nothing for her to get help through loved ones, it will only further enable the disorder through "the secret oath" that so many seem to want to subscribe to with their own BPD people.   

[JRT]

Sounds similar for sure... .its been 4 months almost to the day for me... .

I know that you have to go with your gut and do what you need to do for yourself... .can I ask you to consider a possibility? I was tempted to discuss this with relative as well... .in fact I spoke to her dad who knows that SOMETHING Is up -he was not happy with her behavior- but chalked it up to some kind of a quirk of hers; stubbornness was one term he referred to. (I felt it ironic to be talking about this to the guy that caused it!). I suspect that if I brought up mental health, and something as deeply problematic as BPD, I wonder if the gambit might backfire. As I read 'eggshells', they also made mention that this is probably not a good idea. I'm not condemning what you would like to do... .just consider this possible outcome and weigh it against your goals.

How long have you been nc? Or do you have contact? Did she leave you?

[Restored2]

JRT: Thank you for challenging me to consider a possibility.

It is more than ironic for you to be talking about this to her father that caused it.

There is no identifying the issue as being mental health, BPD or any other "label", as that could really backfire on me.  "It will outline how our relationship played out with her behavioral traits and abrupt cold breakup from me."  I'm curious, what angle did "Eggshells" present for it to be "probably not a good idea"?

I have considered the outcomes and weighed it against my goals of helping her and the hope for our relationship reconciliation/restoration.  The 4 women that I am sending the letter to appear to be stable ground for me to step forwards with.  I am not certain how any of them will respond, as this would require being all knowing.  Having said that, it is a gamble and like any gamble one needs to be cautious yet confident in believing the positives to outweigh the negatives.

To answer your questions.  I broke NC with her about 3.5 months ago.  We have not had contact since.  She left me.   

[JRT]

The book really took an approach that was not necessarily BPD: when you make any accusation, any charge of any kind, the person to whom you are directing that charge is likely to take at least some offense even if it is not true. I think that goes for her family as well; after all, they ARE family and you can betcha that that where yours has problems, so do her siblings. I had exchanged a couple of emails with her older sister (who calls her a 'runner' and it didn't provide any kind of a positive outcome. Probably made it worse as a matter of fact.

But I know what you are trying to do - I did a variation on this as I mentioned. But the fact of the matter is that this is a push/pull disorder. ANY pushing that you do will likely result in oblique motion; the exact opposite of what you want and you can not retract this if it does that. As tough as it is, and as much as you don't want to do it, NC is the only thing that will likely serve your purpose (I am a guy whose profession is to MAKE THINGS HAPPEN, this fits me like a saddle on a pig!).

Why not start a thread on this or even two before you let the letter fly and see what others think prior to doing it?

[Restored2]

JRT:  For these very reasons I am avoiding making any accusations/any charge of any kind.  It is a presentation of the facts that were played out by her.  My desire is for the other parties to hear me out, weight it out, and respond according to how they are lead.  The ball is then in their court.  What they do with it is up to them.  At least I will have done my part. 

For clarification, they are not blood related family.  One is her sister-in-law and the other 3 women are her close girlfriends whom she is in an accountability group with.  She needs to be held accountable for the way that she has mistreated me.

I sent mine some heartfelt letters shortly after she brokeup with me.  In the letters, I apologized for my errors in the relationship, explained my position, and shared what I observed of her behavioral traits.  Despite not hearing anything back on them, I have no regrets.  If anything, I would regret not having sent her the letters at all.  It was a "purging of my soul" and a clearing of my conscience to highlight that which I felt needed to be expressed.  I believe that the same will apply to this letter addressed to these 4 women as well. 

I have already put this topic out on another thread.  From what I have found, non BPD people seem to operate more from a passive position of paralyzing fear to do absolutely nothing.  Personally, I have not seen successful results from anyone doing this passive approach.  No touchdown/goal is ever attained from a defensive position, only an offensive position wins the game.

[JRT]

I agree with you there: maybe for better and maybe for worse; many non's seem to be perfectly willing to simply accept fate and let things simply go.

Good luck with this... .let me know how it goes.

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JRT: Relationships and life are a risk period.  There is no guarantees.  Many non's seem to operate not from any position that could empower them or their relationship for reconciliation/restoration.  We allow our BPD people to mistreat us in various ways and then we fear to act in any kind of a proactive manner that could bring about positive results.  It doesn't really make sense.