I just got this email from my wife...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Wife

"I suggest you read this entire email. 

I'm at a breaking point. I haven't slept.  My chest hurts, my eating issues are out of control, health is mess, the screaming and anger and pain is out of control, the kids are suffering and I am writing this email to you because if this continues, I will die.   

You've watched me deteriorate since my parents died, and during that time, I did my best to use the skills (although new to me, and i had just begun to turn a corner in a positive way when my mother  got sick) Ive learned in therapy to keep from letting my grief turn to anger directed at you, but it was as this time that I was in a VERY fragile state, that you completely disregarded the thin line I was already walking when you began to pile your job/financial insecurities on me. I was still handling everything in a healthy way (Therapist agrees) until

You ignored the boundary I put out when I told you what I needed you to do to help me so that my grief wouldn't turn to anger: I needed you to back off on the job/ financial complaints, and I needed you to be more present at home for our family for awhile.  I put out that boundary and asked for help in a healthy way, which is what this therapy has taught me to do.

Let me repeat that:

I put out that boundary and asked you for help in a healthy way, which is what this therapy has taught me to do.

You responded in the most damaging and unhealthy way possible to a person with BPD, and Therapist agrees that is when I began my regression to where I  am now. You shut me out, isolating me more, and wasn't there for me when I was continually asking for help, for your presence.  You began to formulate a "career plan"

without any of my input, and refused to take a day off to spend a healing day with our family.  I was asking for one extra Saturday, every other week. And not permanently,  just until our family could begin to heal and find some new type of normalcy again. 

My kids and I lost my entire family and life, for gods sake.  You think it wouldn't have been beneficial to our family to have that extra time to begin  to heal?  It was a time that we could have used to turn this tragedy into a healing experience, which is exactly what Therapist said to me , but you refused to see it that way. Your only focus was to panic over finances and picking up the slack for your mothers failing physical condition  and poor business sense. She chooses to not be present at her own business on Saturday mornings, can't trust Mike there alone, and so our family suffers. 

It was not  too much to ask for you to spend a few Saturdays with us as a family following this traumatic tragedy, and Therapist agrees that I asked for what I needed and put out my boundaries in a healthy way.   But you were blinded by your own fear of your mother and the hurt she caused my kids and I, and the control

she has over you and your career, or your own mental illness, or a combination of both. That's all I can fathom would lead you to then completely isolate the boys and I in the 2 weeks before  everything came to a head at the office and you tried to kill yourself. 

I have nothing left. I am in a hole I feel ill never get out of. Both kids cried to me tonight  because they said that they can no longer handle seeing me so unhappy, and so alone all the time. Both asked to see therapists.

Youngest son cried and apologized completely unprovoked for the comment he made to me about not him not having any friends this morning because he knew when he said it that I am completely alone.  All of my  friends, family, you are gone.  He said he was a horrible person for saying that to me when I was hurting so badly from losing all of the friends and people who acted liked they loved me, he specifically said ex-Boss, Best friend, And your mother.   He wanted to know when things will change, how can I go back to being happy like when I had those friends and a job, even tho Grammy and papa aren't coming back.  He said he felt like it was his fault that I'm sad and alone all the time  because he is messing up at school, but that he is hurting too and can't focus. He wanted to know what he could change about HIMSELF so that I could be happy again, and maybe get MY friends back. He thinks HE needs to change in order to take away my sadness and burden. 

I had to have that conversation with him alone. That is the hardest conversation I have ever had to have with a child, and I was at a total loss for words. 

In all honesty, he didn't ask about you or why you're gone, and I don't say that to hurt you.

He seem to sense that you are not part of a support system for me, that you are another loss that I have suffered along with my parents, job and friends.  Both kids commented on how I  am alone all of the time and you and I are hardly together since Grammy and papa died.

I made  no comment to that , all I told the kids was that I asked you to stay at your parents for awhile to stop the fighting between us because i didn't want it to continue to hurt them,  and they agreed that was the right thing to do.

Today in therapy, therapist said she heard some new things from me about how my feelings are changing towards you and how I want my future with you to unfold. Up

until recently, I was considering divorcing you based solely on blaming you for your mothers disgusting and hurtful

actions, and how you didn't protect the boys and I from that, your absence from family life,  and your inability to manage your career, etc.

I have come to the realization that even though in love you,   I don't envision a life with you that nets me the things I need to be happy. And I learned today that THOSE are actual reasons to consider divorcing someone. 

You asked me today what those things are, and so did my therapist. To preface this, she said that these are all reasonable things to want to be a happy, healthy person.  I said:

-a husband who is present and caring, with a stable career who doesn't put pressure on me to change how he feels when he feels insecure about himself.

- perhaps another child, but not a requirement, with whom the father is present and involved in the raising of that child, and is fully committed to wanting a child.  When I say "not a requirement", I mean Being able to make that decision with a loving  man in a stable marriage  is what I need to be happy. 

-an extended family of inlaws, aunts, uncles, etc  that love, support and care for my children and I as if we are actually members of their family, since mine are gone. Inlaws, aunts, uncles, etc  that consider my children their grandchildren and family,  on equal level to their own biological grandchildren. My kids require that presence in their lives going forward, and at this point, have no close family other than my sister.

-freedom from a family run business that limits your career progression and ability to spend time with your family in times of crisis and puts extreme strain on our marriage, due to the instability of the extreme disfunction of the family dynamic/substance abuse/ poor judgement within that business. 

If you can eliminate those unhealthy factors within that business, your career choice is your own to remain in that line of work.  I have not seen progress towards that in 4 years, so Im not of the opinion any changes will be made.

-a direction in my own life that is fulfilling  and supported by you, whether that be going back to school, having another child, or charity work that I find fulfilling.

-peace of mind and a healthy body, time to enjoy each other through travel, time spent at home, time spent with those we love. 

That's it.

Therapist said that in her opinion, you may not be able to provide these things and I need to determine how important they are to my happiness, but that they did not seem to be unreasonable in any way. She said that it is the first time she has heard me list needs rather that complaints, and  that i may  need to find these things within another marriage and life.  Meaning that I need to prepare myself for the fact that you may not be able to be the partner I need and provide the healthy list of things I just mentioned that I need to be happy.

I have nothing more to say to you other than I still love you, but my health and happiness , and that of the boys, will be my primary focus from now on. I am doing my part by remaining in therapy, by seeking proper medication support.  It's time for you to make some decisions and commit to them if you want to remain in a marriage with me. 

You asked me in a text earlier today to tell you what I needed to be happy,  and I'm telling you now, in the healthiest way possible.  I will no longer have screaming matches with you, trying to make you understand where my pain is coming from, or what little part you can do to help me through this horrific time in my life. I have said everything I need to in this email, listed what I need to be happy, and will no longer try to beg from you what you just may not be able to provide. 

Love, Wife"

I reacted poorly.  She took it even worse.  What is everyone reading into that.  I know what I did.  It is not good

[hurthusband]

Wife

"I suggest you read this entire email. 

I'm at a breaking point. I haven't slept.  My chest hurts, my eating issues are out of control, health is mess, the screaming and anger and pain is out of control, the kids are suffering and I am writing this email to you because if this continues, I will die.   

You've watched me deteriorate since my parents died, and during that time, I did my best to use the skills (although new to me, and i had just begun to turn a corner in a positive way when my mother  got sick) Ive learned in therapy to keep from letting my grief turn to anger directed at you, but it was as this time that I was in a VERY fragile state, that you completely disregarded the thin line I was already walking when you began to pile your job/financial insecurities on me. I was still handling everything in a healthy way (Therapist agrees) until

You ignored the boundary I put out when I told you what I needed you to do to help me so that my grief wouldn't turn to anger: I needed you to back off on the job/ financial complaints, and I needed you to be more present at home for our family for awhile.  I put out that boundary and asked for help in a healthy way, which is what this therapy has taught me to do.

Let me repeat that:

I put out that boundary and asked you for help in a healthy way, which is what this therapy has taught me to do.

You responded in the most damaging and unhealthy way possible to a person with BPD, and Therapist agrees that is when I began my regression to where I  am now. You shut me out, isolating me more, and wasn't there for me when I was continually asking for help, for your presence.  You began to formulate a "career plan"

without any of my input, and refused to take a day off to spend a healing day with our family.  I was asking for one extra Saturday, every other week. And not permanently,  just until our family could begin to heal and find some new type of normalcy again. 

My kids and I lost my entire family and life, for gods sake.  You think it wouldn't have been beneficial to our family to have that extra time to begin  to heal?  It was a time that we could have used to turn this tragedy into a healing experience, which is exactly what Therapist said to me , but you refused to see it that way. Your only focus was to panic over finances and picking up the slack for your mothers failing physical condition  and poor business sense. She chooses to not be present at her own business on Saturday mornings, can't trust Mike there alone, and so our family suffers. 

It was not  too much to ask for you to spend a few Saturdays with us as a family following this traumatic tragedy, and Therapist agrees that I asked for what I needed and put out my boundaries in a healthy way.   But you were blinded by your own fear of your mother and the hurt she caused my kids and I, and the control

she has over you and your career, or your own mental illness, or a combination of both. That's all I can fathom would lead you to then completely isolate the boys and I in the 2 weeks before  everything came to a head at the office and you tried to kill yourself. 

I have nothing left. I am in a hole I feel ill never get out of. Both kids cried to me tonight  because they said that they can no longer handle seeing me so unhappy, and so alone all the time. Both asked to see therapists.

Youngest son cried and apologized completely unprovoked for the comment he made to me about not him not having any friends this morning because he knew when he said it that I am completely alone.  All of my  friends, family, you are gone.  He said he was a horrible person for saying that to me when I was hurting so badly from losing all of the friends and people who acted liked they loved me, he specifically said ex-Boss, Best friend, And your mother.   He wanted to know when things will change, how can I go back to being happy like when I had those friends and a job, even tho Grammy and papa aren't coming back.  He said he felt like it was his fault that I'm sad and alone all the time  because he is messing up at school, but that he is hurting too and can't focus. He wanted to know what he could change about HIMSELF so that I could be happy again, and maybe get MY friends back. He thinks HE needs to change in order to take away my sadness and burden. 

I had to have that conversation with him alone. That is the hardest conversation I have ever had to have with a child, and I was at a total loss for words. 

In all honesty, he didn't ask about you or why you're gone, and I don't say that to hurt you.

He seem to sense that you are not part of a support system for me, that you are another loss that I have suffered along with my parents, job and friends.  Both kids commented on how I  am alone all of the time and you and I are hardly together since Grammy and papa died.

I made  no comment to that , all I told the kids was that I asked you to stay at your parents for awhile to stop the fighting between us because i didn't want it to continue to hurt them,  and they agreed that was the right thing to do.

Today in therapy, therapist said she heard some new things from me about how my feelings are changing towards you and how I want my future with you to unfold. Up

until recently, I was considering divorcing you based solely on blaming you for your mothers disgusting and hurtful

actions, and how you didn't protect the boys and I from that, your absence from family life,  and your inability to manage your career, etc.

I have come to the realization that even though in love you,   I don't envision a life with you that nets me the things I need to be happy. And I learned today that THOSE are actual reasons to consider divorcing someone. 

You asked me today what those things are, and so did my therapist. To preface this, she said that these are all reasonable things to want to be a happy, healthy person.  I said:

-a husband who is present and caring, with a stable career who doesn't put pressure on me to change how he feels when he feels insecure about himself.

- perhaps another child, but not a requirement, with whom the father is present and involved in the raising of that child, and is fully committed to wanting a child.  When I say "not a requirement", I mean Being able to make that decision with a loving  man in a stable marriage  is what I need to be happy. 

-an extended family of inlaws, aunts, uncles, etc  that love, support and care for my children and I as if we are actually members of their family, since mine are gone. Inlaws, aunts, uncles, etc  that consider my children their grandchildren and family,  on equal level to their own biological grandchildren. My kids require that presence in their lives going forward, and at this point, have no close family other than my sister.

-freedom from a family run business that limits your career progression and ability to spend time with your family in times of crisis and puts extreme strain on our marriage, due to the instability of the extreme disfunction of the family dynamic/substance abuse/ poor judgement within that business. 

If you can eliminate those unhealthy factors within that business, your career choice is your own to remain in that line of work.  I have not seen progress towards that in 4 years, so Im not of the opinion any changes will be made.

-a direction in my own life that is fulfilling  and supported by you, whether that be going back to school, having another child, or charity work that I find fulfilling.

-peace of mind and a healthy body, time to enjoy each other through travel, time spent at home, time spent with those we love. 

That's it.

Therapist said that in her opinion, you may not be able to provide these things and I need to determine how important they are to my happiness, but that they did not seem to be unreasonable in any way. She said that it is the first time she has heard me list needs rather that complaints, and  that i may  need to find these things within another marriage and life.  Meaning that I need to prepare myself for the fact that you may not be able to be the partner I need and provide the healthy list of things I just mentioned that I need to be happy.

I have nothing more to say to you other than I still love you, but my health and happiness , and that of the boys, will be my primary focus from now on. I am doing my part by remaining in therapy, by seeking proper medication support.  It's time for you to make some decisions and commit to them if you want to remain in a marriage with me. 

You asked me in a text earlier today to tell you what I needed to be happy,  and I'm telling you now, in the healthiest way possible.  I will no longer have screaming matches with you, trying to make you understand where my pain is coming from, or what little part you can do to help me through this horrific time in my life. I have said everything I need to in this email, listed what I need to be happy, and will no longer try to beg from you what you just may not be able to provide. 

Love, Wife"

I reacted poorly.  She took it even worse.  What is everyone reading into that.  I know what I did.  It is not good

[momtara]

I'm surprised because at first I thought this was an email *you* are writing to *her*.  She is the one who has kept you from sleeping.  She is the one who is not there in times of crisis and she is the one who is making your health worse.

So what she wants is for you to have a more "stable" career when you already make six figures?  Trust me, that's not the issue.  Most guys don't make that much, and if they do, they work a lot longer hours.  She wants someone to throw money at problems and can't work at them.

Of course she wants someone to have a baby with, in her mind - didn't she leave her last husband and get you to help raise her kids?

What scares me is the boys.  It's sad that they are sad.   You can always not leave so that it's clear that she is pushing you out.  I fear she may make false charges against you (her mind is so twisted) so I think you should be recording.

Are you going to send an email back?  I think you have to restrain yourself from making it about blame.  There are ways to do it.  You could say that most women would be happy to have a husband who works so hard.

What do the two Saturdays off have to do with her grieving?  I thought she wants them off for holidays.  When did her parents die?  I'm sure you took off for the funeral?  You also said you are planning to take a full Saturday off this month.  Why must it be two? 

What is frustrating is that these kinds of emails sound so believable.  It's part of the disease.  They can really distort things in their minds until you aren't sure what you are seeing yourself.

Did you respond yet?  Maybe hold back until you are sure what you want to say (and you get help here).  You don't want to spend years thinking "If only I hadn't said such and such."

I found that when I exerted the power of not responding, I started to feel better.  You know a response will result in another email like this one.

I posted this on your other thread, so:  I was thinking about you this morning and something occurred to me.  She is pushing you to file for divorce.  She seems to be able to make you do things you don't want.  This is the last thing you control, the last power you have.  Don't file.  She wants it, let her do it and pay the money.  She wants you to do it so that for the rest of her life she can say that YOU left.  You will feel bad about it forever.  Until you are really ready, let her try to force you, and just don't do it.  If she wants to wreck your marriage, let her take responsibility.  Do not think that you'll start the process and she'll see how darn wrong she was and beg you to stop.  Too many have done that and it won't stop the divorce, just make you feel hoodwinked.

[momtara]

PS, people like this resent stability because then it makes their own problems make less sense.  How could you stay at a job when she can't?  My mom, who is mentally ill, has made fun of my job over the last 20 years, but it's also the job that allows me to help her and have enough money and stability to deal with her issues.  I am tempted to encourage you to put it on her, and say, so you're divorcing me because my job isn't the kind of job you approve of, even though it's one of a few that will allow me to make enough money to take care of all of us?

You know, if you leave, she's got no money.  She can't get child support unless you get visitation.  Alimony, maybe.  That is something to worry about.  But I say you use the child support thing for leverage if you do leave.

"My kids and I lost my entire family and life"

No, you are a big part of her family and life.  That's insulting.

In one place she says you left, but then later she acknowledges that she aske dyou to go to your parents' place.  Maybe you do need to stop fighting back for a bit.  See if she calms down.  Some married people live in separate places for a while.

Did you really try to kill yourself?  You can't do anyone any good that way.  Please don't do it.  And don't admit to it if you want to fight for any kind of visitation some day. 

[cloudten]

Ok- I am coming at this from a slightly different angle- I do not know anything about your history with your wife.

I want you to reread the letter from my perspective- you don't know if she is BPD or not.

Everyone- NON or BPD- absolutely EVERYONE has needs and desires. Everyone has key ways in which they are loved and need to be loved. If you haven't read the 5 love languages, I think it would be a worthwhile read for you. Very clearly- her love language is QUALITY TIME.  She feels loved when you spend quality time with her. She also probably show you that she loves you by spending (or want to spend) quality time with you (whether that is how you feel loved or not).  So, if you head this as if a healthy person wrote it- it is very clearly a wife telling her husband what she needs from him right now to feel loved and satisfied.  I feel like she came at it from a relatively healthy angle. Frankly, I could see parts of myself in the letter.  You should be so lucky to have a woman spell it out for you so clearly.

That being said, I could also definitely see the more selfish side- and believe me- I understand first hand how manipulated we can be by a pwBPD. If she did lose her entire family, that is a horribly tragic event- BPD or not! My heart aches for her.

You have posted this in the Staying: Improving the Relationship thread.  If you are staying and improving, I encourage you to reread this taking your BPD blinders down. She is a woman, very hurt, being very clear and basically begging you for things she needs. Only you can determine if her demands are reasonable- like I said, I do not know your history.  But I don't think a NON could have written a more clear letter.

[momtara]

Cloudten, if you read it without the backstory, you'd be right.  However, this letter is sort of (as usual with BPD) flipping into reverse what has happened.  This person calls him at work constantly, makes it nearly impossible to earn a living, has unreasonable monetary demands (new car, fly her home from family vacation) then blames him from having to work so they don't all lose their shirts.  A high functioning BPD person can seem very rational and like it's the other person's fault.  Hurthusband does everything to comply with her requests and there's always one more.  If he can start skipping work here and there, he would, but then there will be another demand - there always is.  She is trying to find reasons to push him away.

"You should be so lucky to have a woman spell it out for you so clearly."

If only it were that simple.  

He does pretty much everything she asks.  The only thing he has left to save them is that he still has a job.

***If he had a regular corporate job and she was calling and harassing him, he'd lose that job!***  So say he starts taking days off to meet her demands, then quits his high paying job and has to look for another to meet her demands, and they all go broke and he can't even afford to feed them, as she does not earn a penny, and then she yells at him for not working.

They are very believable aren't they?

[formflier]

 

Please don't respond to the email... .until you have worked it out here.

Possibly thank her for the email and tell her you are considering it carefully.

There are glimmers of hope in there... most of it is a ridiculous rant... .

Hang in there... .

[bruceli]

I'm surprised because at first I thought this was an email *you* are writing to *her*.  She is the one who has kept you from sleeping.  She is the one who is not there in times of crisis and she is the one who is making your health worse.

So what she wants is for you to have a more "stable" career when you already make six figures?  Trust me, that's not the issue.  Most guys don't make that much, and if they do, they work a lot longer hours.  She wants someone to throw money at problems and can't work at them.

Of course she wants someone to have a baby with, in her mind - didn't she leave her last husband and get you to help raise her kids?

What scares me is the boys.  It's sad that they are sad.   You can always not leave so that it's clear that she is pushing you out.  I fear she may make false charges against you (her mind is so twisted) so I think you should be recording.

Are you going to send an email back?  I think you have to restrain yourself from making it about blame.  There are ways to do it.  You could say that most women would be happy to have a husband who works so hard.

What do the two Saturdays off have to do with her grieving?  I thought she wants them off for holidays.  When did her parents die?  I'm sure you took off for the funeral?  You also said you are planning to take a full Saturday off this month.  Why must it be two? 

What is frustrating is that these kinds of emails sound so believable.  It's part of the disease.  They can really distort things in their minds until you aren't sure what you are seeing yourself.

Did you respond yet?  Maybe hold back until you are sure what you want to say (and you get help here).  You don't want to spend years thinking "If only I hadn't said such and such."

I found that when I exerted the power of not responding, I started to feel better.  You know a response will result in another email like this one.

I posted this on your other thread, so:  I was thinking about you this morning and something occurred to me.  She is pushing you to file for divorce.  She seems to be able to make you do things you don't want.  This is the last thing you control, the last power you have.  Don't file.  She wants it, let her do it and pay the money.  She wants you to do it so that for the rest of her life she can say that YOU left.  You will feel bad about it forever.  Until you are really ready, let her try to force you, and just don't do it.  If she wants to wreck your marriage, let her take responsibility.  Do not think that you'll start the process and she'll see how darn wrong she was and beg you to stop.  Too many have done that and it won't stop the divorce, just make you feel hoodwinked.

That is what I thought too.  So, this seems to be a letter of projection?

[hurthusband]

See what cloudten said is what I was wondering.

It is a bit manipulative because of a few points

a. she has been physical abusive to me since her parents died.

b. she is daily verbally abusive.  She called me 85 times at my job one day and when I refused to answer my phone she called the regular line. That day i did try to kill myself because the shame and embarassment and guilt of her rage and work and everything.  I should not have and it only made things worse.  I am most nights when I am home woken up at 1 am for a 3 hour fight.

c. her parents both died in December within 24 hours of each other.  It was over a 2 month period when she did lose her job and her best friend too.  The details of that I suspect they were both mentally ill, but my wife has no friends nor other job, due to problems such as costing a teacher and mentor his tenure when she felt wronged and constantly changed jobs until 6 years ago when she went back to school.  In November I only worked 40 hour work weeks and in December part time.  January I worked my first full week at 47 hours.  I work two jobs to make ends meet because she does not work and our bills are about $8500 per month mainly due to healthcare costs for her.  

d. she has been demanding I take off more time for more than just the past month.  I already take off more than anyone else in management.

e. Time with her is usually fighting.  I know that I no longer go to the gym, see any friends, go to Church, watch anything I like on TV, nor do any hobbies on my computer which I enjoy... EVER.  Well gym twice in past month.  I devote every minute I have outside of work to her.  The total bills I spend on myself are $150 a month which half is just my medication, excluding food and fuel for car

f. the youngest son was crying yesterday evening possibly because that morning she berated him for 30 minutes harshly and slapped his leg in anger.  She told me I was not welcome home so I was not home last night.  I have slept probably 20 days of past year in my truck out of fear from her or her kicking me out.   Also he makes comments to me how the house always smells like alcohol because of her constant drinking.  She also demands me give her my xanax perscription

g. I take the kids to do all their functions like school Boy Scouts etc.  They joke how mom is on a rampage again and I explain she is hurting.  They ask me if mom has kicked me out again constantly.  That is why I am not around.  The oldest has stated he cannot handle it there without me.  The youngest has stated that she has him caring for her as she lays in bed all day

h. she would blame me for my mothers actions which would result in being hit, kicked, punched, verbally berated, and overall abused.  Also  a plan she had for a joint suicide after she convinced me to quit my job and when my mother accepted my resignation, she said we had no means to support ourselves so death was only option.  My mother is an ill person with problems, but my mother has also defended my wife and never spoken ill of her even though my wife has not only spoken ill of her to me, but to also my siblings.  In addition, such things that my wife considers abusive from my mother are the fact my wife and her talked about something illegal in order to help my wife with something that she was getting screwed on.  My mother hesitated and wife flipped out over it.  My mother should have never said she would help to begin with.  My mother also did not take her shopping at Neimans when they had talked about shopping which irritated my wife.  My mother stayed up with her one night drinking and then did not contact her for a few days after the funeral of her parents.  My mother explains she did not want to impose.  My wife felt abandoned.  My mother and wife both can drink too much.  Night her mother died they were drinking and my mother claims she went a bit too far with prayer which she believes in.  My wife who hates God claims my mother was drunk making it about herself. I could see either being true.  Basically, my wife wants my mother to be the mother she never had, but at same time, my mother has demons too and when she lets my wife down my wife feels furiously betrayed.  My mother has stated she is worried she will let my wife down and offered to go to therapy with her.  Ultimately my wife wants me to not have any contact with my mother at all.  Which includes quitting my job.  I had to give up my friends early in relationship cause my best friend offended her.  He knew she had cheated on me and when drunk had told her she better not hurt me again.  I had to give up my father because he told me one time that he spotted her out with another guy that one of her own friends knew and said they were being waaay too chummy.  All I have left is a mother I see at work for 15 minutes a day and on holidays

i. my career.  Throughout our relationship, she has only had one job for more than a year.  I have always supported her.  I will not talk about the further past what she did with my support, but I have grown a small business.  When economy went down, my mother offered me a job at her business which she owns and I would have a shot at taking over.  I could still run my business out of it.  There are stressful times yes.  I am now making 6 figures though and I have been doing this for 12 years with one job and 5 years with second.  There i sometimes fears of losing clients... one in particular.  I have expressed fear of that on occasion.  Only 1 time in past 4 months have i expressed fear over business.  That was because we just maxxed out our credit cards on burying her parents and money was due to the IRS in 4 days.  I needed 4400 bucks and I had 1700 bucks.  I was worried.  I expressed this and she flipped out.  I never talked about it again and tried to make a plan.  She flipped out on me on suicide day and I explained I was working on a plan and she got mad I didnt tell her, but she got mad when i talked to her earlier too

j. another child - i am open to this.  She has two kids with two previous guys.  one of which not in the picture and I have raised him as my own.  I do not want to have a child in a marriage with abuse and this turmoil.  If things were settled sure, but I do not want to damage another and i certainly dont want the guilt from selfish perspective.  Especially worrying about custody as I am constantly threatened of never seeing these two boys now ever again.

k. extended family - my wife has argued with all my family. I am from a divorced family and they even are in agreement over her.  Basically none really like her now.  My mother and father who are seperated are both wanting to be there for her but at the same time, she wants attention DAILY.  Everyone is scared to act around her.  There is no telling what might happen.  Mainly to me as a result of them.  One birthday they threw from me i could not go to because I found my wife cheating on me.  That goes back years, but it sets up the relationship now.  My mother was furious when she found me with a black eye one time, but 5 days later invited wife to Christmas.  My mother invited her whole family to holidays.  Wife constantly wants nothing to do with her or is foolish enough to deal with my sister who is a young idiot and stirs up trouble, or my wife wants her as a best bud to talk with daily.  The other problem is how my mother treats my kids versus my wifes kids.  No doubt it is not the same.  This might be because my wife does not allow my kids around my mother alot of times, but it also might be because my mother is pretty much raising my sisters kid cause my sister is a 23 year old and immature.  My wife had same situation with her parents when she was 23.

l. family business - there is no substance abuse at my job by anyone.  My mother outside of work might drink too much on occasion and I know she smokes weed which I do not approve of and she never has around me.  My wife though I know also drinks and uses pills DAILY so it might be projection.  I have two businesses as mentioend.  Both require 6 days a week, but I have limited down to about 47 hours a week.  I do alot of my business at my mothers business.  My wife thinks my mother is an idiot and does not know what she is doing.  Although my mother has a business that owns free and clear 200 pieces of property and has increased in profits throughout the recession even.  Now my pay has not gone up in 4 years, but that is partly due to fact I am not there all the time and I am running another business out of there during her work hours.  More so there is a battle over a trust which owns the business from my grandparents when they died 7 years ago.  My mother owns 62% of the trust but her co trustee was pushed out due to such things as removing doors from tenants homes when they did not pay the rent and trying to fight his 72 year old father who was on oxygen.  Courts have held up this matter for 7 years because the will was written poorly, and because attorneys are making $200k a year arguing it so they have no incentive to settle based on the fact they bill for asking the same questions 8 times when they themselves have documents acknolwedging such.  Now we are moving forward to force a separation of the business since we control 62% but they do not want it.  Pay is an issue here because they are arguing that my pay in particularly should be paid by my mother under a management fee which is lower than market average and they have never paid in 7 years.  That is outside my wife's problems but my wife seems to feel my mother is trying to screw me.

m. support of wife.  I have NEVER asked my wife to do anything she did not want to.  She has swapped numerous jobs.  I supported her going back to school when we did not have the money.  I supported her changing from English major to Art major when even her parents were calling her an idiot (actually my mother supported her too).  I supported her when she did not work for 6 years besides part time cleaning.  I supported her when she went to give up her cleaning job for a job that would pay $10 an hour and would cost $3k in investment to get started along with no benefits and would be self employed tax.  I supported her leaving said job.  I supported her wanting to go back to school.  I support her if she wants to have a baby even if I feel its not the right thing to do now.  I have offered to send her to some seminars for her art.  This was always supported so not sure why she even brought this up

n. time and healthy body.  Now I want her to be healthy, but I cannot help she is chooses to drink and take pills every day.  I cannot help if she refuses to go to the doctor for her vomiting every meal up.  I should point out she used to have bulimia .  As far as home, she said she would be happy with our house if she could do a $3k small bathroom remodel.  That was $20k ago.  We now live on subflooring and have no kitchen counters or cabinets because she ripped them out without talking to me and then realized she could not do the work and we were out of money.  she hates our home and talks about running away literally every day.  Alls he talks about is getting a new house.  We live in the house we do because it was near her parents.  Its FAR from my job and everything else.  I drive 40 miles a day at least.  As far as time spent with those we love, my wife does not like to do anything our kids like to do.  She does not have any friends.  She hates everyone in my family.  Most of the time she hates me.  As far as travel, I spent $4800 last year to send her on a vacation with her parents to Europe last year which I was not invited on which is fine.  After 5 days with them she demanded I buy her a flight home that night or she would disappear into the countryside because she hated being with them and her sister.  Also as far as travel, before we lived together I was making one third what I make now and had $20k in savings.  4 years ago I was $15k in debt with nothing in savings.  I started with my mother also and got us back even.  Then 2 years ago she wanted to start a remodel on house and I finally gave in because she kept saying I was too cheap.  I now have $60k in debt after having the two largest years in my financial history. She is driving a late model loaded up low mile Lexus and I am driving a 2003 Ranger miled up.  My credit cards are maxxed.  I need those cards because I do not get paid regularly.  I am a business and need cash flow... spend money to make money.  Not to mention she has gotten a DWI in past year to make things even harder.  Best part is she got the DWI driving from a bar at 2 am to go to work in her art studio she is renting, but not making anything she plans on selling.  As far as time, I could also take more time off if i was not terrified each month about covering a mortgage payment, or the stuff she is buying on Ebay or the new iphones she gets at least every year, or the MacBook Pro $2200 she needs for work when I know that youc an get a $1500 PC that can do it all too (computers is my hobby and I really enjoy when I can, but no more)

So I look at what she says and it sounds thoughtful and reasonable, and I want her to have all of those things, but it mentions nothing about her contributions to sabotaging those things and it baffles me as to what part is her fault and what part is mine.

I cannot tell what is my fault and what is her fault though, and she will not take any fault so I am stuck trying to gauge it all

I feel sick.  I feel alone.  I feel scared, and worst of all I feel guilty

[hurthusband]

Please don't respond to the email... .until you have worked it out here.

Possibly thank her for the email and tell her you are considering it carefully.

There are glimmers of hope in there... most of it is a ridiculous rant... .

Hang in there... .

it was at 4 am that she texted me few times to read it.  I was furious and hurt.  I texted back that I felt it was unfair some of what she was saying and using the kids and therapist and isolateing me.  Totally screwed up.  I was not tactful or warm or anything.  I was empathatic some and admitted some fault but it was wrong of me.

i responded with this

"wife

 I read the email you wrote last night and was further greatly hurt by what you said, but then in pain and anger lashed out in an inproper way.  I attacked back and was not calm and more understanding.  Whether or not what you said was fair or unfair or how you said it, I should have waited and calmed down and not lashed.  While I do not  agree with some of what was down there, I should have paused and been more calm and responded better.  I will not try and explain my feelings here.  Is it possible to go to counseling together?  I know the finances and so forth but there seems to be at this point complete miscommunication.  We both are not hearing each other correctly or we are both hyper focused on how we were wronged and possibly not looking at our own faults.  I don't trust myself I know fully no matter what I feel is right. I do not want to wrong nor hurt you and the boys.  If we do fail  I certainly don't want it to be at this point in your life when you are going through unimaginable pain.  I recognize that.  I truly do.  I am terrified of doing the wrong thing and hurting you unfairly.  I know what I feel and rationalize but I could be wrong.  

 You have lost everything and possibly your marriage too.  I am possibly going to lose everything or my marriage.  Now losing my family does not mean they are dead as you have to deal with.  

 I do not want to abandon you.  I never have and I have always cared.  I always try my best but thst does not mean it's not possible for me to hurt you.  

I am sorry for all of this.  

Love

me"

Now she berated me before reading it and i begged for her to stop and JADE some.  I emailed her doc begging for advice of if it was possible to see me and tell me what i should do better since she knows us both then but that that might be improper and i understand... .

i have been at work 3.5 hours and not done a single thing

[cloudten]

Wow just wow.

Have you set boundaries about her calling you at work? Spending money? Have you said "i know you feel abandoned when I am at work, however I am trying to provide for our family. I need to be able to focus on my job so we don't lose our house... .car... etc."

If you set a boundary, you must stick to it. What would be a reasonable amount of phone calls? Maybe set times for her to call and check in... .10am and 3pm?  I can certainly relate to not getting anything done... .that's been me for 2 weeks.

Yes, they (pwBPD) are truly unbelievable! I am sure that you are doing everything REASONABLE... .as we try to do in any r/s.  That's why I use the word REASONABLE though! I know that if you give a BPD an inch, they walk all over. So I get it... .but I also hurt from her perspective... .and yet realize that sometimes all you can give of yourself to a BPD is never enough.

I feel like a lot times, we non's forget that a pwBPD does have actual emotional needs and r/s needs just like any normal human. If we ignore all of their needs thinking they are just empty souls only out to hurt us, then we are ignoring the fact that they are human.

So, essentially, I just wanted Hurthusband to reread and evaluate what he is doing to contribute to fulfilling her emotional needs. It is easy for us nons to just completely shut them off especially if we burned out and broken. If her demands are un-reasonable... .which they probably are... .then it sounds like she has made up her mind about what she wants to do. Maybe its a game... .but it sounds like she has really thought it out with her T.

Counseling sounds like a great idea.

[momtara]

I think HurtHusband has done and said all those things.  This is a cycle that keeps going.

HurtHusband, you've made it clear in your long letter that you are doing all you can.

Her 85 calls almost drove you to suicide.  Can't you see rationally that if you end up dead, it is MUCH worse than any of these other options (talking to her T even though T said not to; trying to get help from someone, telling your therapist everything, maybe even talking to a school psychologist, or ultimately walking away but still being alive to help the kids if there's an emergency?)

"the youngest son was crying yesterday evening possibly because that morning she berated him for 30 minutes harshly and slapped his leg in anger."

You may be the one person who can save them.  What if *they* are suicidal?  They are in a house with a mother who is downright abusing them.  I know you love her and you love them and are scared of what might happen.  I'm not going to say to tell CPS, because I don't know what might happen.  I wonder if a school counselor or someone needs to hear from you before this gets any worse.  Who knows, maybe they know an expert somewhere who can help her.

She maybe worse than just having BPD, maybe bipolar and other stuff that would be much better if she took Abilify or any of the other drugs they have nowadays.

You need to stop getting sucked into these patterns by her.  She is trying really hard.

Let me tell you something.  For the longest time I didn't take advice from this board.  Yet, when I finally set some reasonable boundaries with my ex, it was like magic - the harassment stopped!  It's a process.  First we need a lot of encouragement to understand we are doing the right thing and not being cruel.

I think your response to her was good because you kept restating that you are trying and that you love her.  I think you say you're sorry a bit too much.  That just gives her ammo.  

Remember, you aren't divorcing her.  You aren't quitting your job.  You know how irrational her statements are, right - if you quit your job, you'd all be a COMPLETELY AND TOTAL MESS with no money, great debt, nowhere for you to go during the day, and no way to meet her demands, need for medical care, etc.

Nothing you have done is wrong.  You do 10x what a normal spouse would do.  

Leave your phone on and don't answer her calls.  Practice.  If she has an emergency she can call the cops.

If you kill yourself, then you'll have left them all anyway, so why do that?  Instead, step away or set boundaries.  Let her calm down.  

Sure, she is hurting.  But she is hurting you and making it worse.  :)on't give her the rope and the ammo.

Stress to her T that she calls you all day and asks you to get a different job and you are becoming unable to function, meanwhile she sits on the couch all day or whatever.  Her T probably has no idea.

[hurthusband]

Right now, my mind is such mush i cannot apply or do anything... I need to try and get back ahold

She said she doesnt want us to seperate but I need to write her TODAY how all i am going to change.

Apparantly i offered to do what she wanted

I told her I will change and quit my job and I will ditch my family, but she is asking me to make her happy which a person cannot do.  I told her I will be unhappy because I am making myself unhappy, but if that is what she wants it gets rid of the guilt

Im panicking she just keeps calling now talking about how badly she is hurting and she is in therapy and she is trying and I am not.

I dont know what to believe.  Everything is crashing around me.  Its either im selfish or there is a monster stomping through my life destroying everything and I have the power to destroy it but I am not because I dont know if the monster is doing it cause I hurt them or if the monster is just out of control

[GaGrl]

hurthusband, I have been keeping up with your situation.  You are in just about as bad a place right now as I can imagine.

May I suggest that you start putting some hard facts on paper to help you focus on being rational?  These are items that can help you as you move forward, either in explaining to a counselor why you are in the situation you are in, OR in talking with a lawyer regarding any settlement required should this move to the level of divorce.

Start with your finances, which seem to be a sticky point:

1)  What is your annual/monthly income, and what does it take to maintain that income?

2)  What is the history of your financial situation (your info on pre-marriage income and debt versus income/debt since marriage)?

3)  Lay out a very detailed monthly budget -- where is your money actually going?  This should include such items as insurance (car and medical), medical expense, therapy expense, prescriptions, vision expense, car payments, her eBay purchases, other expenses that are building the need for your level of income.

4)  Try to monetize the items that concern you about several of her behaviors.  How much is spent on pills each month?  How much is she spending on alcohol each month?

Are you getting what I'm suggesting?  Put this all on paper with numbers attached to it so that you can get your head around the reality of the position she has put you in.

(And for God's sake... .don't buy her shoes at Neiman-Marcus for Valentine's.  Can you see how irrational it is for her to wear designer items when you have no kitchen counters in your house?)

[OnceConfused]

Hurthusband:

your wife is throwing you a bone and apparently you blinked and quickly accept what she wrote as your problems and your faults. In a subtle way, she has shifted her problems, and internal struggles onto you. Now she is holier than thou, and you are coming into submission.

I can recall clearly how my xBPDgf always shifted any of her sudden mood change, her internal pain and her anger to me, as the one that was the perpetrator. No matter what I said or tried to do, she can always find faults with me.

Interestingly and similarly, my xbpgf told me that she went to see a T after her divorce and was confirmed by her T that her xh was indeed the abuser, physically, mentally, sexually and monetarily. Well, I don't know what went on in the T sessions but I can surely tell you that she told the T what she wanted the T to hear (her only side of the story) so as to shift blame onto her xh and exonerate her. Not until things happens to me by her, that I realized it was her game of shifting blames. This way she did not have to change at all.

[momtara]

"She said she doesnt want us to seperate but I need to write her TODAY how all i am going to change."

"Apparantly i offered to do what she wanted"

"I told her I will change and quit my job and I will ditch my family,"

You didn't mean that, right?  

THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO THINGS YOU HAVE LEFT TO KEEP YOU SANE, EMPLOYED, AND ABLE TO HELP HER AT LEAST A TINY BIT.

How about telling her you can quit as soon as she gives you a list of jobs with equal pay that you can get, that aren't 6 days a week?  Why shouldn't she have some of the burden?

DOING EVERYTHING SHE SAYS WILL NOT GET RID OF THE GUILT.  IT WILL get you into a situation where you have **nothing left to rely on**, and... .in the end she may turn around and tell you you should NOT have quit your job after all and that you should not have listened to her.

I can hear it already, "Why did you listen to me and quit your job?  When are you going to get a new job?  Why are you sitting home?  This job isnt' good enough, that one isn't good enough, that one has a sexy secretary, that one's only $99K a year with no benefits... ."  It will go on and on.

You keep doing things to get rid of the guilt and she finds new things to make you guilty about.  You flew her home from the trip to Europe.  You bought her a computer and a fancy car.

Without your job, what happens if she makes a false charge - who will pay for a lawyer for you?  WHAT ABOUT HEALTH COSTS?

" I told her I will be unhappy because I am making myself unhappy"

Stop accepting blame.  You are breaking a primary rule of dealing with a BPD person.  It's not your fault.

You can quit your job if she comes up with another source of income first and it's equal or better.

Don't you see how doing what she wants will destroy you both?  She's not thinking clearly and you are taking instructions from someone mentally ill so that you may get a day of relief and gratitude that will end badly because you'll be broke.

I know it feels good to just finally give her what she wants and get a day or two of relief.  Then you'll have a lifetime of regret if you quit your job or do these other extreme things.

Normal people don't ask you to choose from among things you love.

So far several people have told you not to respond yet.  You need to relax and think clearly.  Go to the gym or your T or something.  Every time you respond it gets worse... .

So stop responding.

Please please please stop giving in to the whims!  Your job was the last thing you have to hold on to.  Even taking those Saturdays off would be better than quitting, but you shouldn't have to do that either.  She doesn't work.  Why do you have to jump through hoops?  

[momtara]

As for your letter telling how you will change:

--I will accept emergency calls from you (wife) during the day but otherwise will not take calls about our problems so that I may make enough money to properly take care of us and think clearly.

--I will pay only for things that are within our means, except on special occasions and in special circumstances.

--I will not wake you up and you will not wake me up.

--I will not accept yelling or swearing and will not do the same.

--I will only act out of love.

--I will keep taking care of the kids, taking them to scout meetings, cooking, etc., etc... .

Maybe this can be an opportunity for you to set goals and boundaries, on paper.  This is the document you can always hold on to if she tries to blame you.  Don't take blame in it, don't beat yourself up, and don't blame her for stuff.  Leave out the subject of the sentence.  "I will take not more than two calls at work per day about personal matters" avoids placing blame.

--I will set aside an hour every other day to talk to wife about her problems, then go to the gym or take us out to eat.

Normal couples have special occasions.  They don't have to buy expensive shoes or expensive meals or trips all the time. 

***If she tries to yell at you any more, tell her you need time to think about your response.***  I've been doing that with my exH and it gets me out of this constant fighting and engagement.  It's fair to say "I need time to think about my response."  It's not negative, doesn't place blame, doesn't cause you to be blamed.  It's smart.  Why should you have to fight when you dont' want to or when you'e busy with work?

[hurthusband]

she tricked me.  she called saying she went to doctor and asked if i cared.  i said i did... we talked about new meds... they put her on sleeping meds and long term xanax... .

then she expressed her pain and how she doesnt want to be this way and i explained that i understand and its horrible and i love her and i dont want to hurt her neither.  then her voice changed... and it became how I am a monster who ruined her as she was doing better.  How I will not accept blame and so we can never work out... .

Over and over and over and over.  My mind pulsing... saying threats of what she is going to do to me.  I finally said, do whatever you want... you cannot do anything worse to me than you have done now...

then i said you could kill my parents and that would not be as bad as what i am feeling now which I sincerely meant.

Of course, that immediately went back to her parents.  That has been the hardest thing.  Her parents dying and her going to therapy has become this get out of jail free card that allows her to do anything she wants to me.  Im ___ed... .

She is going to destroy me or I will have to destroy her. she will tell others i said that and meant that as an insult to her parents.  The sad thing is her parents liked me and my family.

My mother sees me upset today and says she thought we were doing better and she had been praying.  I thought that was kind both for me and my wife.  It does not matter if God was real, but she thought about us and thought about my wife and cared about her, and cared about me.  

Im going to have to go to therapy multiple times a week.  I am falling apart.  I do not know how I am going to pay for all of this, but I am to my breaking point.  She is taking no prisoners.  

I have seen what this woman does...  she has destroyed lives before.  If you have seen Gone Girl, she is her little sister.  She may not murder nor frame for murder, but I cannot put it past her doing the other things.  She does not do them because she is evil but its like a possession.  

I never believed in demonic possession, but I find over past month, that I am starting to.

It very well might be crazy and I am going crazy...

She hates God and everything about him.  Her reaction to the very mention of Christianity is waaaay overboard.  The amount of rage from the mere mention is worse than you would hear from Hitler about Judaism.  She changes like she has a different personality at a moments notice.  She slowly constantly makes chips at how she is shocked somebody intelligent like myself believes in God.  She goes from loving and hugging to literally trying to punch me within 30 minutes.  I swear she had a voice change today when talking to me... .

I have grown up and seen a fair share.  I know murderers, pimps, corporate raiders, white collar and blue colar criminals.  I have seen suicides, been around death, i been lost and alone in Mexico not knowing the language and 20 miles outside a city (got off wrong bus) when pitch black.  There is nothing, I mean nothing I fear more than my wife.  There were moments when she was crazy and talking about death i stayed up all night scared she might try and kill me... .past few months I have laid in bed and seen that again.  I have thought she might actually kill me and I have laid there trying to go to sleep hoping she would.  I have no anger if she did it.  It is mercy compared to this

My life is over.  I have lost my family, I have lost my dignity, I have lost my self respect, my sanity, my finances.  I did everything to my utmost.  I worked hard... I never did drugs, rarely drank, (more so applies to younger years) I gave up so much to try and lead a good life and one to make sure I was always a good person and be there for my wife and family.  Now I say all of that and figure its me focusing on myself and being self centered.

I dont even know the evil things she says I say sometimes.  I am dying here... she is dying even faster.  Our kids are on the outskirts of this massive black hole that we are being sucked into.  I am scared to get revenge she will pull others I associate with into it.

I keep falling for her games... I do not want to be responsible for everyones pain and she says i am.  She says I am sick. Maybe we both are... .

my wife has no patience.  there is not hold on or let me think about it.  its then and there.  She only knows complete domination.  Its what makes her good at everything she does. 

Also if i sent her a letter like that she would say its patronizing and be pissed.  The only thing she wants and will accept is her taking no blame and me taking all the blame.  She has stated until I take teh blame she will not have anything to do with me.  I have taken part and I deserve part, but its not enough.

She said she is getting better.  I pointed out that we are in the worst spot of our lives.  Maybe invalidating. 

I am starting to think that what needs to happen is I need to be gone.  Alive, but gone.  I destroyed lives by bringing my wife into the pictures and I destroyed her life by not being what she needs, but promising i could be.  I am rambling here. 

We both want the same thing.  Peace.  I want her to stop harrassing me to get it for her and she wants me to keep jumping hurdles until she feels it...

[momtara]

ps

Her parents died w/in 24 hours of each other.  So yes she was abandoned doubly.  (they dont' sound like they were great people, but still.)  So she is trying doubly hard to push you away too just to see if you will really leave.  Thus, you kind of have to do the opposite of what she wants in certain circumstance -- for instance deep inside, she doesn't want you to quit your job just like she doesn't want you to divorce her.

So are you going to listen to her disease and take orders from it... .?

Or are you going to do the right thing and keep your job and be able to provide for you and your wife and the kids when she gets you into jams?

Do you really want to be helpless and unable to help her?  Is it worth the one day of relief you get (or even a few days) because you obeyed her?  You may noit even get that - she may just berate you because it is very hard to find another job that pays well and lets her harass you and you may be unemployed for a long time.

Most people in this country do Not have 6 figure jobs.  They're hard to find.

[momtara]

OK, I posted that before I saw your newest post.

You realize that again you got sucked in, talking to her, and then she harangued you?  :)on't take her calls.  You're right - I can see how it was tempting that she said she is on new medication and that gave you hope.  (And changing meds may temporarily make things worse).

But stop talking to her.  Maybe you need to check on the kids occasionally, but stop talking to her.

And get a tape recorder.  I know it may hurt you.  But these calls have to be recorded.  :)o you want her to frame you or have you in jail where you can't help anyone?  You may never need the tapes, but you should have them.  You'll feel stronger knowing it's not just your word about this verbal abuse.

Deep inside she needs you to do the right thing to protect her by protecting yourself and not listening to this nonsense.

Let her whirl out of control for a day or two.  Then maybe she will have time to calm down.  Every time you say something, it riles her up.  And if she waits a few hours and sends something nice, don't be so quick to pounce - it's a trap.

What does your T say?  Also, I think he should be concerned about the kids, living with a woman who suggested a suicide pact.  He should give you advice on that.  But you should be taping so it's not just your word, if it ever comes to it.

[reluctanthusband]

Hurt,  I'm there with you brother believe me I am.  I have just as much on the line as you do but the children(3) are all mine.  I have been through 14 years of emotional abuse(less lately) and have though about taking my life multiple times in the past year.  I have had a loaded .45 in my hand on at least 3 occasions that I can recall. I am also a Bible believing Christian man.  None of your wife's issues are your fault.  You have not created this situation.  You are a passenger on HER crazy train but you don't have to get on man really you don't.  I know how hard it is to keep from being honorable from taking care of people.  Those Kids what ever happens to them emotionally/physically is not your fault! You need to get away but first do these things Document EVERYTHING!  Record Everything! Save every text email and conversation you have.  You have to build a case that you are not a bad person, because you will be assumed as so by any authority if she goes to the cops or takes you to court.

I learned in the past few months that I have to let her move and prove her self wrong.  If she says I'm being a jerk I ignore her.  If she is being negative I ignore her.  If she is baiting me.  I ignore her. Imagine there is a hot coal inside her and every time you invalidate, get caught in the trap you are just putting fuel on that coal and it is going to fire up and burn you EVERY TIME.  Don't even get near it man just don't.  It has helped me by reducing the amount of fights and the duration of fights.  If you don't jump in the ring there is no fight and keep it that way.  I really feel for you man I do I have been stressed out for about a year now and an just now finding some relief.  I have put on 50 lbs since this time last year.  Some days I just don't want to wake up... .But I do because it is what I am made for and to give up is to Validate Her craziness.  Don't do it don't let her win.

[formflier]

I keep falling for her games.. I do not want to be responsible for everyones pain and she says i am.  She says I am sick. Maybe we both are... .

HH... .I don't understand why you stay on the phone and listen to the vitriol?

You have the power to change the dynamic... .please do so.  Just not listening will be a huge plus for you!

[formflier]

  I want her to stop harrassing me to get it for her and she wants me to keep jumping hurdles until she feels it...

You can't control what she does... .you control is you listen... .exercise that control.

[reluctanthusband]

I can guarantee you are not sick man.  It is how they work control and confusion.  They beat it into you making you believe you are the person that is causing all of their pain.  When it is them who are causing it.  Unless you change the dynamic nothing will change.  Nothing changed for me until I changed the dynamic.  I stopped making it worse, I was being a rational person.  I know that sounds totally crazy but that is how these people work.  Everybody leaves them everybody hates them and its your fault.  I put up with that crap for almost 14 years.  I have known about BPD for 4 of them and only figured it out a few months ago.  I have been there FormFlier has been there. Hell most of us here are STILL there.  Mine had a flare up just yesterday and I ignored it and the issue went away, not sure if forever but it did.     

[ColdEthyl]

I can guarantee you are not sick man.  It is how they work control and confusion.  They beat it into you making you believe you are the person that is causing all of their pain.  When it is them who are causing it.  Unless you change the dynamic nothing will change.  Nothing changed for me until I changed the dynamic.  I stopped making it worse, I was being a rational person.  I know that sounds totally crazy but that is how these people work.  Everybody leaves them everybody hates them and its your fault.  I put up with that crap for almost 14 years.  I have known about BPD for 4 of them and only figured it out a few months ago.  I have been there FormFlier has been there. Hell most of us here are STILL there.  Mine had a flare up just yesterday and I ignored it and the issue went away, not sure if forever but it did.     

It's a long road that most of us are still on. I don't think you actually ever get off of it... .but then again I suppose all relationships warrant that.

[hurthusband]

i was allowed home while they were gone to get some stuff.  i feel bad because she keeps calling and i will not answer then eventually answer then get hammered on and anything i say about how i feel is me saying the most horrible things to her.  i listen and get berated i try and get away and it angers her.  i fire back how she is not being reasonable but in a semi mean way...

she is crying for hours i know over this.  i feel horrible. 

she wants to feel better.  i just want her to be civil to me.  i think i can do the rest.

i am quite irritated with her therapist though now.  as mentioned i emailed her earlier about concerns and effort and she ignored it.  not even a response.  i am not a therapist nor trained so i have to trust her, but one i am questioning how many BPD patients she actually has.  She may work with DBT, but how often does she use it on a real BPD person...

I just wish my wife could see my heart.  She would know.  Just everything i say gets contorted and meaning is changed in her ear canal. 

or i am just horrible at communicating.

youngest son will not talk to me now.  I think he thinks i abandoned his mother.  He was my best friend.  My only real friend. 

[SlyQQ]

This is all normal BPD trying to put everything on you the more you protest the worse it will become

advice to limit contact get a medietor to start negotiations and batten down every hatch you have you re in for a rough ride an it is going to be a long way back before your p sees sense again she will surround herself with people that agree with her an try an make the kids see same

try an tell your son you dont want this an want to see him dont get angry with anyone ( it will only hurt ) sorry know how much this all sucks

[cloudten]

I think the bottom line is that you are not taking care of yourself first. you have forgotten to love yourself. Any of us dealing with BPDs have to take care of ourselves first if we have any shot at dealing with them. That means hard boundaries and hard decisions. If you are that afraid of her... .deathly afraid of her... .you need space. You absolutely need distance between you and her, now. You need a healthy support system. You need to go to the gym every day. You need to get your finances on paper on purpose if only for you.

I suggest separating your finances. She'll sink or swim. Tough love. I bet she can swim if you make her.

You are the first person I have read on here mention possession. I have wondered the same thing myself. The different voices. Mine is supposedly catholic, but has raged for hours at me over christianity, god, jesus, the bible. Mention jesus and you think he might explode! No joke! He is the most evil person I know, and I have often wondered if possession was an actual possibility.

[momtara]

Sorry to hear this:  "He was my best friend.  My only real friend."

Awww, this makes me sad.  I really hope the younger son stays your buddy in the long term!  And we're your friends too, HH - I know that doesn't help much since we're just strangers on a computer... .

I think he knows what's up, but what is a kid to do - he has to take mom's side so things don't get worse.  If she is a basket case, he's going to at least appear to side with her.  He knows she needs him, and he may be a bit afraid of her.  My mom was cruel and nuts and I tended to always take her side when she fought with my dad because I knew she needed me and he didn't.

I understand how you feel regarding the fact that she keeps calling, you resist, but eventually you feel compelled to give up and answer.  You just have to keep resisting.  It takes practice.  Tough love is hard.  It's still love.

 

[hurthusband]

I think the bottom line is that you are not taking care of yourself first. you have forgotten to love yourself. Any of us dealing with BPDs have to take care of ourselves first if we have any shot at dealing with them. That means hard boundaries and hard decisions. If you are that afraid of her... .deathly afraid of her... .you need space. You absolutely need distance between you and her, now. You need a healthy support system. You need to go to the gym every day. You need to get your finances on paper on purpose if only for you.

I suggest separating your finances. She'll sink or swim. Tough love. I bet she can swim if you make her.

You are the first person I have read on here mention possession. I have wondered the same thing myself. The different voices. Mine is supposedly catholic, but has raged for hours at me over christianity, god, jesus, the bible. Mention jesus and you think he might explode! No joke! He is the most evil person I know, and I have often wondered if possession was an actual possibility.

I cannot cut the finances because she does not work.  Yea, I could say she has to get a job, but any job she could get would never pay the mortgage and expenses of the home.  

She just called.  Started with a few demands she knew would really irk me.  I did not get mad.  Just listened.  For 26 minutes she expressed herself and how she wrote that letter and tried to say what she needed.  I validated that she deserved those things.  We all do.  I did not try and talk about how its not that simple and it makes it hard to do those things when im attacked and her communication is through fear and anger and abuse... .

She eventually cried and hung up on me.  She blamed me for everything.  I have some blame and I feel horrible.  She accused me of being arrogant and thi... .it does not matter.

None of this matters.  She is broken, I am broken, kids are broken.  If I had acted and not Jaded or danced the dance a little bit different through this trying time maybe things would have been different.  If I had not been clouded by frustration and anger... she does not see that I love her and I hurt too.  I suppose thats the one thing I wanted most for her to see is how much i do care and what all i was doing, but thats just not a reality.

o on a side note.  Her doctor is basically refusing to give her receipts to turn into our insurance company now too.  O great, so I am paying 80% more insurance a month for the same coverage cept now I have mental health cause of obamacare requirements, and i cant even get the coverage cause of a doc that does not want to report it, and who REFUSES to answer my calls or emails.  I sent one email in 4 months and she cannot respond?  I have called her maybe 4 times in nearly 2 years of sending my wife to her and spent around $15k in that time with her.  

How do i know this doctor is not sabotaging her therapy at this point to benefit her?

Now I am up to spending over $3k a month on insurance and mental health

[OnceConfused]

hurthusband:

It sounds to me like you are in a total isolated place and you have slowly lost the strength to stand up to what you believe and what you want.

Don't get attached to her kids for they are her kids. They can be your friends but should not be your only friends.

Your house is your castle and home. Why did you let her kick you out ? Are you the one that pays for it ?

I can understand when the wife has your own kids and kick you out . But here (1) you are the main support for the house, (2) the kids are not yours. So I really don't comprehend why you had to move out. You got it all backward.