I wasn't thinking. . .

[Depression = 72% of members]

Was he there tagging along not helping with much, just standing around watching /or/ was he nowhere in the vicinity while you were in the midst of needing help?

I have no friggin' idea what he was doing. I was taking care of 4 kids. Two of them were holding my hand. One was fumbling with an umbrella and one was complaining about being bit by an ant. I didn't really have the wherewithal to know exactly where he was or what he was doing. It is a guess on my part as to what he was or wasn't doing.

I don't think I understand how I am supposed to keep up with 4 kids and know exactly what he is doing too. I am supposed to be able to ask him for help. How can I do that when I am in the middle of juggling stuff for 4 kids? I don't keep track of his every move.

No, I don't always ask him for help because I know how he is going to respond. If I want things to be peaceful, I know to let him be, especially if we are out and about.

Waverider said it best. This IS my fault because I am not trying hard enough to ask nicely. I am not being direct enough. I am not enough because I am not willing to admit my part of the equation. In all honesty, I don't know what more I can do. I come here to vent and get a little bit of encouragement because I had a bad day and I feel like I am being told that my husband gets a free pass to do whatever he does or doesn't want to do and I have to work even harder.

I get frustrated for the same reasons, and I understand VoC. I don't think Phoebe was trying to say he gets a 'free pass', even though that's how it feels for sure. The problem is the constant problem us nons run into. When we are dealing with anything with our pwBPD, we have to run everything through a BPD filter. We cannot communicate with a pwBPD like you do with a non, nor can we expect them to act like a non.

That's why we get so frustrated. I have to learn the same things... .and I get so tired sometimes of being careful with how I phrase things. I get frustrated with having to do everything myself. He says he wants to do this or that... .but he doesn't, and then he feels bad he doesn't.

It's enough to drive a saint to drink.

[ColdEthyl]

Was he there tagging along not helping with much, just standing around watching /or/ was he nowhere in the vicinity while you were in the midst of needing help?

I have no friggin' idea what he was doing. I was taking care of 4 kids. Two of them were holding my hand. One was fumbling with an umbrella and one was complaining about being bit by an ant. I didn't really have the wherewithal to know exactly where he was or what he was doing. It is a guess on my part as to what he was or wasn't doing.

I don't think I understand how I am supposed to keep up with 4 kids and know exactly what he is doing too. I am supposed to be able to ask him for help. How can I do that when I am in the middle of juggling stuff for 4 kids? I don't keep track of his every move.

No, I don't always ask him for help because I know how he is going to respond. If I want things to be peaceful, I know to let him be, especially if we are out and about.

Waverider said it best. This IS my fault because I am not trying hard enough to ask nicely. I am not being direct enough. I am not enough because I am not willing to admit my part of the equation. In all honesty, I don't know what more I can do. I come here to vent and get a little bit of encouragement because I had a bad day and I feel like I am being told that my husband gets a free pass to do whatever he does or doesn't want to do and I have to work even harder.

I get frustrated for the same reasons, and I understand VoC. I don't think Phoebe was trying to say he gets a 'free pass', even though that's how it feels for sure. The problem is the constant problem us nons run into. When we are dealing with anything with our pwBPD, we have to run everything through a BPD filter. We cannot communicate with a pwBPD like you do with a non, nor can we expect them to act like a non.

That's why we get so frustrated. I have to learn the same things... .and I get so tired sometimes of being careful with how I phrase things. I get frustrated with having to do everything myself. He says he wants to do this or that... .but he doesn't, and then he feels bad he doesn't.

It's enough to drive a saint to drink.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

Waverider said it best. This IS my fault because I am not trying hard enough to ask nicely. I am not being direct enough. I am not enough because I am not willing to admit my part of the equation. In all honesty, I don't know what more I can do. I come here to vent and get a little bit of encouragement because I had a bad day and I feel like I am being told that my husband gets a free pass to do whatever he does or doesn't want to do and I have to work even harder.

I'm going to differ on this. It is not YOUR FAULT. He's lazy and clueless about how to help. That is HIS ISSUE. He could take responsibility and deal with it much better than he does. Waverider's point is correct--he won't unless you change the game.

I saw this with my mom. I know how to cook- if we were hungry as kids, we knew not to ask mom. Once she was at our house and I asked her to help me make something. She wanted to, but it was as if she was lost about how to do it. She kept asking me a lot of questions- which pan to use, which spoon. It occurred to me that because we were so trained not to ask her that she may not have learned how. She also needed so much validation that she was doing OK. 

Be gentle with yourself--it will be a lot of work to 'train' your husband like this. You won't always have the energy for it, and that is OK. (When dealing with four girls and an ant in the rain sure was one of those times!)

... .accept that he's not likely to do much on his own; if you want progress, you've got to be ready to take the lead.

[waverider]

I think there are two reasons why people are not quicker on the uptake for helping out.

There are the previously mention tunnel thinking individuals, who are simply to preoccupied to be proactive enough to predict where help may be required. Then become defensive when the other party finally points it out (often with frustrated tone).

Others are more insecure individuals who fear not being in control and take requests as someone else dictating what they should do. They often say no out of knee jerk reaction, then go into JADE to back it up. With these individuals it can work better if you ask for help and let them suggest what part of the particular activity the could contribute. eg Ask for help to clean the kitchen and let them choose the chore, rather than "can you do the dishes/put the rubbish out?". Which can be received as "you are useless and need me to tell you what to do"

Problem is when you are under pressure as Vortex points out you are busy focusing on doing your part and dont have time to work out what they are, or are not, doing. All we are aware of is they are not helping and trying to get them to help no matter how diplomatically worded is yet another task on top of everything else. Hence we cut that task off the list and just do it without them.

They then get used to not helping (setting a precedent) and hence any future request seems to come out of the blue and they will interpret this as a challange, which it often becomes, as that is when you are pushed to frustration.

So what to do? It may be a case of asking for non specific help more often over small things so doing things together becomes the normal, without any one particular incident being big enough to trigger frustration.

With the example of a day out with the kids have him doing something with them from the start so there is continual involvement rather than allowing him time to disconnect and go off in his own world. Even if this having him hold one their hands or carrying their things.

It is better to prevent the zoning out than trying force the reconnect.

"we need to do XYZ, what part do you prefer?"

This does not mean there are not areas were it is best you just take total responsibility, but be aware this needs to be your choice, you need to be accepting of it and above all consistent in your expectation, and not suddenly expect them to jump in because you have suddenly had enough.

[Cat Familiar]

Interesting experience today with my husband in the kitchen: I saw some brown spots on the ceiling and pointed it out to him. His first thought was to think it was due to my espresso machine (very doubtful). I assumed it was due to a shaken bottle of cola (something I don't drink) but I didn't mention that to him.

So I ask him, being the taller of us two, if he could clean it for me. I got a step ladder, a bottle of Windex and some paper towels and I held the ladder and gave him feedback as to where the spots were that he couldn't see. It was wonderful! I gave him a lot of appreciation and he seemed quite pleased with himself.

It occurred to me later that he was so criticized as a child and also in a previous marriage, that he probably doesn't have a lot of these experiences to bolster his self esteem and his abilities to be of service. (It's hard to imagine an adult being so insecure about simple household tasks, but I really think this is applicable to him.)

So much like parenting, if I want help, I need to break down the task, supply the materials and supervise in the beginning

[vortex of confusion]

With the example of a day out with the kids have him doing something with them from the start so there is continual involvement rather than allowing him time to disconnect and go off in his own world. Even if this having him hold one their hands or carrying their things.

Most of the time, the kids refuse to hold his hand and they don't trust dad to carry their things. They would rather carry it themselves than have dad do it. Every now and then, one of the little ones will hold dad's hand but it isn't very often. That is on him, not me. I try to encourage them to do stuff with dad and be with dad but they don't want any part of him a lot of the time. A lot of times it works out best when I let him zone out and expect absolutely nothing from him.

I realize that I made a mistake when I posted about this. I know the situation. I know my part and I realize that I created this situation. I found something for him to do with the kids (take the little ones to the kid zone) and I asked him to do it when I thought he had chilled out and relaxed and it worked out. He is like a little kid in that he doesn't do well with transitions. When the ant stuff was going on, my only goal was to get everyone settled in and comfortable. I did that. Overall, the day was good.

[vortex of confusion]

So much like parenting, if I want help, I need to break down the task, supply the materials and supervise in the beginning

And sometimes, I can ask, break down the task, supply the materials, and supervise and things still get screwed up. I need to pay closer attention to what I am doing as it seems that I must be missing something. Maybe I am not asking correctly, or at the right time, or with the right attitude.

[waverider]

With the example of a day out with the kids have him doing something with them from the start so there is continual involvement rather than allowing him time to disconnect and go off in his own world. Even if this having him hold one their hands or carrying their things.

Most of the time, the kids refuse to hold his hand and they don't trust dad to carry their things. They would rather carry it themselves than have dad do it. Every now and then, one of the little ones will hold dad's hand but it isn't very often. That is on him, not me. I try to encourage them to do stuff with dad and be with dad but they don't want any part of him a lot of the time. A lot of times it works out best when I let him zone out and expect absolutely nothing from him.

I realize that I made a mistake when I posted about this. I know the situation. I know my part and I realize that I created this situation. I found something for him to do with the kids (take the little ones to the kid zone) and I asked him to do it when I thought he had chilled out and relaxed and it worked out. He is like a little kid in that he doesn't do well with transitions. When the ant stuff was going on, my only goal was to get everyone settled in and comfortable. I did that. Overall, the day was good.

This is the problem with personality issues, the precedents were set many years ago, probably before you even met him, and even small changes are hard to achieve. This is one of the reason I often say that you need to just try to accept certain aspects and choose to live with the consequences, rather than try to change them. A common saying is "dont try to teach a duck to bark, it only frustrates you and pisses of the duck".


There will still be a need to vent and huff and puff a bit, we are not perfect dont take it as a sign of failure.