New Member: NGU

[NGU]

Just registered. This page opened up so I figure I should post something before looking around the site.

I chose NGU because it's the acronym for Never Giving Up. I'm keeping that mindset, despite the number of people who question my desire to stay married to someone like my wife.

What is she like? Well, I just started reading "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" and it feels like someone wrote it just for her.

My wife has many great qualities and I love her. The problem is, many of those qualities disappear behind the symptoms. I'm thinking many of you will get that part.

I'm here because I'm trying everything I can. Many things have failed at this point. But I haven't exhausted all my resources.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi NGU, 

Welcome aboard! You have come to the right place for support and understanding for improving your relationship with a person with BPD (pwBPD). 

I do like the acronym NGU.  I have that same philosophy as well.     Having a positive outlook is a great for improving your relationship with your pwBPD.  Granted there are going to be tough times, as I am sure you know, but we have fantastic tools to help. 

The motto on the staying board is, "before you can make anything better, you must stop making it worse." This motto is the foundation of improving a relationship with a pwBPD.  The lessons on the right can truly help with that. 

What have you tried before? 

[NGU]

For me: One psychologist, who I "fired." I'm on my fourth psychiatrist. I'm currently in a behavioral therapy group, which at this point has given me all I can get, but I'm still going to. I've tried hotlines, which were zero help. Live chat at another site was a bust. Looked into meet-up groups where I live, but that's not going to work. The previously-mentioned book is my first.

Together: Couple's therapy. This is where I learned that she gets quite upset to even hear the word "borderline," so it has become our Voldemort. But after 4 years together, she finally admitted to treating me horribly, so there's some progress happening.

For her: One psychologist twice a week. One long-term psychiatrist who she recently fired (justifiably)... .looking for another. DBT, which she stopped going to about 15 months ago. She's on three related meds.

I think my main problem right now is that I still haven't found anyone else even close to being in my same situation. Therapists just say how hard it can be, and the constant you-should's and you-need-to's aren't helping, since no one knows what it's like in our household.

If it pleases the group, I can return to this thread tomorrow and add more detail about some of my/our major stumbling blocks.

Thanks.

[EaglesJuju]

You have had quite an experience with professional help. It can take quite a few psychologists/psychiatrists to find the one that meshes well with you and your wife.  Although, it seems that couples therapy is showing promise. 

That is great that your wife is becoming more self-aware.  It feels really good when our pwBPD can admit or take some responsibility for their behavior. 

I think my main problem right now is that I still haven't found anyone else even close to being in my same situation. Therapists just say how hard it can be, and the constant you-should's and you-

I understand how it can feel invalidating when a therapist tells you how hard it can be and what you should do.  It can make you feel that they really do not understand what it is like to be in a relationship with a pwBPD. On the other hand, you will find that there are many of us who have similar situations.   

Please share with us more detail about your stumbling blocks. 

[crash42]

I picked this username, because "stubbornass" somehow wasn't accepted.  Love your outlook, man.  We go through some pretty dark times dealing with this disease.  Resolve crumbles in the face of unyielding resistance.  We few stand up again and again in support of those who don't necessarily know they want to be supported.  I don't know that many of us would have picked this life, given the option.  We've chosen to (safely) stick out out, though.

DBT therapy was an amazing help for my wife.  MDD and PTSD have complicated matters.  It all depends on whether or not your SO wants help and is willing to put into practice what they learn in treatment.  She was inpatient at a facility that specializes in DBT treatment for three weeks and in various outpatient programs for a few more months.  I'm so proud of her for the way she threw herself into treatment.  Others there just slept through group and classes.  My champ was usually a chapter or two ahead of the rest of the folks there.  She wanted to be wife and mommy again.

Currently, we see the same LCSW together and separately.  Being able to discuss things from my perspective, her perspective and talk about things together cuts through a lot of the BS.  We've learned a lot of coping mechanisms.  EMDR has helped my wife with her PTSD.  Our therapist is (slowly) teaching me how to communicate with my wife.

There are a lot of options out there.  Just be prepared to fight tooth and nail with your insurance company over some of them.

[Restored2]

Welcome to this supportive family, NGU.  We all can relate on some level as we are all pretty much dealing with various challenges of BPD relationships.  I love the acronym for NGU being Never Giving Up.  This is the right attitude and approach to take.  I also give you a standing ovation for you wanting to stay with your wife, despite the challenges.  You are soo right about many of the qualities being hidden behind the symptoms/traits of BPD.  There is always hope, so never give up!

[NGU]

WARNING: this is a long brain dump.

Had a bad time at CBT today. I told them I wouldn't be able to find a job for a couple months because we're moving, and that I had to give my wife free reign to pick a location. One guy was surprised I was staying with her. Another was shocked that I was moving wherever she wanted. The therapist said "Well what about you? It doesn't sound like you can be yourself and you're always stepping on eggshells. Sounds like she's taking advantage of you. There's something you're not telling us." I tried to tell them I'm just learning more about how to communicate, but got another barrage of negativity. I finally said "How can you shove this A-B-C method down our throats every week and then be surprised when it starts helping?" No reaction.

Like I said before, they don't live in the house, and don't see what happens or what our mindsets are. Besides her symptoms, and when she's not miserable, we're great for each other. And what am I supposed to do... .give up on her? (And honestly, I don't care where we move, as long as it's out of the city, which she hates with the passion of a thousand suns. Although she's admitted moving might not help. She's made me hate where we live.) 

--If she has more than one task to do at any point, she gets really low and might even cry. A to-do list shuts her down. Even if it's just a single question about moving, she shuts down. I got to the point where I had to assure her that I wouldn't even volunteer to help; I'd just let her do everything and follow her to wherever she wants to go.

--She has what she calls "bad wake-ups," which can last hours in the morning.

--She usually only eats Kind Bars, snacks and junk food all day unless I cook something, which makes her feel guilty. She's yelled at me if the half-and-half goes bad, but then gets upset when I buy too little and we run out. I gave up buying her food, so she's finally started buying some frozen dinners and waffles.

--Her libido is in the toilet, where mine is always high. It's like there's a constant tornado in my brain. There are rare times she's insatiable for a day or two.

--She's having stomach problems from her self-induced stress. Vomiting at times. It took her three months to see a doctor.

--Bad-to-sofa-to-bed-to-sofa many days.

--She accuses me of never wanting to do anything, that I'm not the man she met, but when I suggest things to do, she never follows through or she says she doesn't like doing what I want to do.

--She wants help, but when I try to help her, she gets frustrated.

--It bothers her when I'm on the computer because it's near where she hangs out on the sofa all day, but when I try to "hide" in the bedroom, she thinks I'm abandoning her and will frequently come in.

--She shows symptoms of megalomania. She constantly brags about how much she knows about things, and when I show my vast knowledge of the city, she says I'm nothing more than a glorified tourist. I completely handled our last move, but she denies I did any work. She rarely thanks me for anything.

--If I get frustrated with any of this, she accuses me of pouting, being obnoxious, and that she can never talk to me about anything because I act irrationally.

--She has told her friends how pathetic I am, but will turn around and say how wonderful I am.

--She usually cries when I mention how difficult it is for me to pick the exact right words or actions to keep her from shutting down.

--She has told me she's not worth being with, and needs to live with her parents, and will never be able to work again.

--She needs me on the sofa for "TV Time" every night and gets irritated if I go to bed early.

--She says she'll drive me to the grocery store, but she'll never follow through. If I ask her, she gets very frustrated.

--She has admitted she'll never clean the house, but when I zoom around the house cleaning, she gets anxious and ends up crying.

--She has no filter. She will use me as a verbal punching bag.

--I'm proactive and it makes her crazy.

--She brags about how much pain she can take but then complains constantly when she's in pain.

--I hit a home run with her family on Christmas day, but she later said I was completely antisocial and embarrassed myself and her. She later admitted she's been horrible to me and felt awful about it.

--If I express excitement about anything, she accuses me of being manic. By the way, both of us know that after she has a high, a bad low is coming.

About three years ago, she was threatening to kill herself. A miracle happened when I told her that I understood, told her I loved her but she could do it, and asked her to simply wait until I could fly to my parent's place and set up an alibi. She told me she turned a corner after that.

Last week, she freaked out about the amount of "stuff" I had. So I went into the room to pare down. She said I was over-reactionary and impossible to talk to. I bailed... .going to the grocery store by myself, and came back really quiet. Barely spoke for two days and looked despondent. She started acting normal again and got more affectionate. (Is this a secret to remember for later?)

This is all so surreal. At this point, I'm constantly bracing for the next meltdown. If anyone has read this far... .maybe someone could tell me that they experience this same type of home life. I have no idea how long it will take to fix this, or if it's even fixable. I really don't want to leave, but I feel my personality has been completely stripped away. It is taking so long to learn how to act perfectly to avoid problems.

[misuniadziubek]

WARNING: this is a long brain dump.

Had a bad time at CBT today. I told them I wouldn't be able to find a job for a couple months because we're moving, and that I had to give my wife free reign to pick a location. One guy was surprised I was staying with her. Another was shocked that I was moving wherever she wanted. The therapist said "Well what about you? It doesn't sound like you can be yourself and you're always stepping on eggshells. Sounds like she's taking advantage of you. There's something you're not telling us." I tried to tell them I'm just learning more about how to communicate, but got another barrage of negativity. I finally said "How can you shove this A-B-C method down our throats every week and then be surprised when it starts helping?" No reaction.

People who aren't nons and don't deal with this sort of stuff are going to have trouble understanding any of this.  Her behaviours come off as irrational and they have an 'avoid other people's b-s as much as you can for your own mental health mindset." Having a BPD as a partner. It requires acceptance of a lot of B.S.

--If she has more than one task to do at any point, she gets really low and might even cry. A to-do list shuts her down. Even if it's just a single question about moving, she shuts down. I got to the point where I had to assure her that I wouldn't even volunteer to help; I'd just let her do everything and follow her to wherever she wants to go.

This actually sounds a lot like me these days, but I'm just very anxious.

--She wants help, but when I try to help her, she gets frustrated.

- I've experienced this with my uBPDbf all the time. He would start to belittle me for not doing things as he wants. Eventually I told him he wasn't to ask me for help anymore. That -seemed- to help.

--It bothers her when I'm on the computer because it's near where she hangs out on the sofa all day, but when I try to "hide" in the bedroom, she thinks I'm abandoning her and will frequently come in.

Summarises the first 10 months of our relationship. His roommate then became convinced I was the clingy one because I never left him alone. He jumped on that bandwagon. I'd just conditioned myself to not leave him alon for too long at a time.

--She shows symptoms of megalomania. She constantly brags about how much she knows about things, and when I show my vast knowledge of the city, she says I'm nothing more than a glorified tourist. I completely handled our last move, but she denies I did any work. She rarely thanks me for anything.

My uBPDbf is very intelligent and knows how to do a lot of things specific to his field of electronics. I was in med school for a couple years. He will regularly put me down and accuse me of being pretentious if I use any of the vocabulary that got drilled into my head during that time because 'I don't have a degree."

--If I get frustrated with any of this, she accuses me of pouting, being obnoxious, and that she can never talk to me about anything because I act irrationally.

This is my EXACT situation. He gets pout, mad, is obnoxious at times but it's always my fault. If I do it... .then I have the emotional issues. He SENT me an article on irrational thoughts he got from a guidance counsellor in highschool. I pointed out the parts that applied to him and he got extremely defensive and told me I couldn't excuse ignorance with this.

--She has admitted she'll never clean the house, but when I zoom around the house cleaning, she gets anxious and ends up crying.

This sounds like me. I try to clean a lot, but if someone tries to do it for me or help, I get extremely anxious and upset.

--I hit a home run with her family on Christmas day, but she later said I was completely antisocial and embarrassed myself and her. She later admitted she's been horrible to me and felt awful about it.

He accuses me of being antisocial around his friends all the time. If I do take centre stage in any conversation he gets super mad and accuses me of trying to make him look bad.

This is all so surreal. At this point, I'm constantly bracing for the next meltdown. If anyone has read this far... .maybe someone could tell me that they experience this same type of home life. I have no idea how long it will take to fix this, or if it's even fixable. I really don't want to leave, but I feel my personality has been completely stripped away. It is taking so long to learn how to act perfectly to avoid problems.

That's what I feel a lot of the time too. I have anxiety as well so I get small paralysing bouts of anxiety whenever he gives me the silent treatment or is mad at me. The smallest thing can and will set him off. Today we're breaking up over me confronting his friend over telling lies about me and my relationship. To him it's betrayal. He's deleted me off Facebook already, yet he expects me to come up and see him anyways. It makes no sense.

I feel like a lot of my personality got stripped away by him as well and I've picked up some of his habits. You can't act perfectly. It's not quite the way to live a healthy life. There's lot of resources here on understanding the dynamics and understanding what they are going through.

[NGU]

ABOUT US

I'm adding to this thread because the link is in my profile.

How We Met

I met my wife at work. She had such good promise that management knew other employees would resent her. So as her supervisor, my job was to make sure she was protected from spiteful wrath. She excelled quickly.

I moved on to another department, and when the opportunity arose, I made a push to have her join our group. She normally wears loose clothing, so there was only one time during our employment where I even remotely noticed her as a female.

She had mood swings, and one day she had a quiet meltdown in the office. I took her into a room, with her crying, and found out she needed to move back to the area where her parents live. She transferred, and I permanently left the company a year later.

A year after that, in mid-2011, she called me to say she was on a long distance drive. She beat around the bush for a while until I finally said, “If you need crash space, you're welcome here.” I met her outside my condo. She was gorgeous, to a point where I was dumbstruck. She noticed a look in my eye and gave me a preemptive “no chance,” especially since I had been her supervisor. I think my nonchalance about it changed her mind. She admitted that she had always been attracted to me. She stayed for a week.

I took two trips up to see her that summer. We moved in together by late fall, with her warning me that I would be adopting her depression and her dog. We got married in 2013.

Our Life Together

When she's not low, we're very compatible. I'm sure you've heard those annoying statements that couples make like “We complete each other's sentences.” That's us. We watch movies and utter the same comments at the exact same time. We have the same sarcastic, jaded outlook on life and like/dislike many of the same things.

Like I said, she wears loose clothes. So it has become a running joke that her gorgeous body is all mine, and no one else gets to know. She's curvy, and what I call “squishy,” but she's not overweight in the slightest. She's 10 years younger than I am (I'm in good shape and in great health). If it wasn't for her mental disability, I would get to pronounce that I hit the jackpot.

The only issue I have with us as a couple which doesn't involve a mental disability is that she refuses to tell her family we're married. It has to do with her crippling fear of a big ceremony. She is very afraid of the resulting, non-stop attention from her giant extended family. And I really can't blame her; I have an aversion to many of society's requirements, including big weddings. My only concern is that I really need to talk to her parents about our relationship hurdles, but in our case, it has to come from a husband, not a boyfriend. For this reason, I have a big problem with our secret... .a secret that we would both be very happy to keep otherwise.

The Trip to Rock Bottom

Her depression gradually got worse as she realized she was probably never going to be able to hold down a steady job, and that I was struggling to find employment. (See the above post for how bad she gets.) My first knowledge of BPD sent my brain spiraling. This was much worse than mere depression. I ended up telling her that we were not going to make it unless we went to couple's therapy. Using an amazing harm-reduction psychologist, we started working on communication about a year ago.

As I was trying to come to terms with our future together, and realizing that everything I did was wrong, I started drinking to numb the pain. Apparently, alcohol does bad things to me and I ended up in a two-week blackout in September 2014. We had a verbal explosion one night and I told her I had been hiding my drinking, and that I was drinking because of her. Not surprisingly, she left me. It took about two months to get her back, and for us to get back to “normal.”

It was about four weeks after that (December 2014) when she mentally crashed. In her view, everything in her life was terrible and there was no way out. She lashed out at me on an unprecedented level, but at that point, I knew there was nothing I could do to fix her. That, combined with the incredible lack of physical intimacy, forced my brain to quit caring.

This leads us to about one week ago... .late February 2015... .when I told her I wanted to cancel our next weekly therapy session. I was numb and didn't care anymore. Not only was I entertaining the thought of leaving her, I also knew I wouldn't feel guilty if the chance of an affair presented itself. There was one night that it got so bad, I sought out Sex Addicts Anonymous just so I could talk to someone. Just learning about the group seemed to tide me over. My wife noticed my dead eyes and obviously knew that she would have to make some effort to keep our relationship together. Coincidentally, this was the same time that I realized CBT was not going to help me anymore. I told her I was done with therapy, but that I would keep going as long as we were living in the area.

About Me

I've always been good at being social, but am completely fine with being alone. When I paid off my condo in 2008, I realized I had achieved all my goals. I won. I had been working two jobs for years, and had a nice amount of liquid funds.

I was at my long-term job for 14 years and was extremely good at it. I was fired in mid-2010. Amazingly, my mentor who had just been laid off from his job in upper management told me the truth about my departure: A “spiteful, conniving” employee had been gunning for my job and told lies to H.R. to get me out. My mentor told me he knew this because he was the one who worked on “my case.” That made a total of four times during my employment that I had been targeted in the exact same way.

Turns out I had boxed myself into a corner because my specialty was no longer needed, thanks to the evolving use of the Internet. I would have to find another career. My sudden hatred for Corporate America, combined with my apathy, put me into a low-spectrum depression.

My wife persuaded me to see a therapist. My first psychiatrist was a third-year resident and misdiagnosed me as Bipolar. The medication completely messed with my brain. The third time the resident told me to bite the bullet a while longer, I said I wanted off the medication. Instead of working with me, she had police and security escort me to a mental health facility, which was as bad as One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, but without the lobotomy. A sane mental patient, ripped right out of the pages of the frightening Rosenhan Experiment (look it up... .holy c-r-a-p). Needless to say, I have zero faith in mental health professionals, not only because of this, but because of their shocking lack of help with my wife's BPD.

Ironically, I was so screwed up after being in a mental institution that I had to see more therapists. Now for more irony: it was only because I drank myself into a blackout that I was able to be connected with an amazing team at an addictions center. On top of that, I'm on Medicaid due to the Affordable Healthcare Act, so I haven't had to pay a cent. Strange how things work out sometimes.

As Of Now... .

I'm coming to terms with my wife's symptoms and finally feel I'm armed with enough resources to improve on my end. While I don't hold out much hope for a life where we live Happily Ever After, my coping skills are advanced enough where I know I can help forge ahead with our relationship with a better perspective, and without potential crippling anxiety. But I'm assuming my loathing of therapists will never go away.

Our next challenges are our upcoming move, my wife's need for improvement and my inability to find a job. Oh... .and I also need to either find a way to stop taking my anti-depressant or go through the ordeal of finding a psychiatrist who actually listens. <sarcasm>You know, instead of cherry picking from every syllable that comes out of my mouth to fit me into a random DSM category.</sarcasm>

Thanks for letting me purge all that.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi NGU,

It sounds like you have been through a lot.    

Similar to you, I felt like I lost myself for a period of time. One thing I learned though, it is possible to not have to lose yourself in a relationship with a pwBPD.  My bf has displayed most or similar behaviors as you described your wife having.  To resolve many of our problems I established boundaries, used validation, and communication tools.  It has taken awhile, but there are significant improvements in my relationship. For example, my bf has a tendency to lash out or project at certain times.  I tried a "reciprocal" approach (responsiveness, warm engagement, affectionate, and warmth) when he was projecting. I tried it time and time again, but it really did not work. I decided to try a "irreverent" style (being direct, presenting an alternative viewpoint, and matter of fact) when he lashed out at me.  I specifically have told him, "I understand you are angry, but I am not your emotional punching bag. I should be treated the same way I treat you." After I said that, he took a moment and replied, "You are right EaglesJuju, I am sorry."  Sometimes using a different style of communication for a situation helps.

Here is an article on communication techniques that really helped me. 

Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)

 

[Turkish]

How's it going NGU?

My Ex sent me to therapy both at the beginning and at the end of my r/s, abandoning me both times. 30 years ago, my dBPD mother had us go to family therapy when I was 13, only to go off on me in the first joint appointment. The T didn't intervene. It was then that I knew "what was up" and shut my mouth. Only 25 years later did my mom tell me that the T thought I was one of the most well adjusted young men that he'd ever met. After forgetting (stuffing) my anger over that, I was pissed. I was dismissive over what my mom said years after I moved out, "everybody needs therapy." Projection?

What I learned from what my mom told me about her journey, however, is that not all mental health professionals are equal. Even my T said that he shared my "healthy disrespect" for his profession when I would often lapse into irreverence during our sessions.

Whether you have traits that might be a clinical Dx or not, rest assured that many of us with pwBPD in our lives can certainly pick up traits. You landed here and you're reaching out, and that says a lot about your inner stregnth, NGU