Messed up bigtime, sent SO to jail

[Riverrat]

Uh oh!

So now I've really messed us up.

dBPDgf went totally on a rage when I tried to feed her a strawberry and said that we need to be more romantic.

Actually, I think it has to do with how bad she feels about this being a holiday weekend, even though she said she just wanted to stay home and relax alone.

She has this problem with holidays... .

Anyhow, she beat me up pretty good, punching my face, slapping me, and threw a chair at me, kicking furniture and spitting on me. Telling me what a piece of filth I am and and the worst bf ever. I'm garbage and she's moving out tomorrow. She hates me, I make her sick, I'm a vulgar, messed up excuse for a human being  Sound familiar? I think she quoted the BPD's handbook. 

I tried to validate, and she yelled "Stop mocking me". So I just shut and went to the bedroom, quietly crying on the bed.

She walks in 10 min later, still yelling, slamming doors, punching walls, and threatening me. I grabbed a few clothes and left. Went down the street and just reported to police (They have a report of her rages on file for refeence--prearranged). No pressing charges or anything. Said I was going to stay with a friend, and she would probably be OK in the AM.

Police said they would do a "well being" check on her, in a while, just so she wasn't tearing the place up or hurting herself., and let me know.

As we say here--Document everything! Stay out of jail myself.

She sent me two texts while I was talking to police, saying she had calmed down and that she had some thoughts she wanted to share with me. I didn't answer and police suggested I not answer.

Then I get a call from police that she was arrested for domestic battery!

Man, she is probably ready to kill me about now. She just did 45 days for dui's in December/January. I just wanted to document, and make sure she was ok.

I told the deputy she does this, they have a file on her, and that she does suffer from a disorder that makes her act this way.

Gawd, what did I do now? I'm freaking out over this, and they say I can't even bail her out til after court on Monday morning.

Anybody have any thoughts on locking up your SO when dysregulating?

Please help... .

 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Riverrat]

I just hit the emergency protocol button--I'm now an official victim of Domestic Violence.

I thank the fine folks on this site for saving my tail tonight.

Because of pre-planning with authorities, making a fast safe exit, and contacting the sheriff from a safe distance, I was able to keep MY freedom and avoid arrest or having my home destroyed. The lessons here are not only helpful, but invaluable.

Tonight's incident will certainly cause me to do some soul searching. I may seriously consider changing boards. IF ONLY we could get her some help. but she quit T. I felt my efforts from my T, my readings, and this board were helping as the outbursts were less frequent, and less violent. Guess anyone is entitled to a relapse.

It turned out one of the deputies had personally been beaten up by my SO after her drunken bar fight during a previous rage. He said she admitted to beating up on me--and said that I didn't hit her. Dodged a bullet there I believe!

[Riverrat]

  Did I do the RIGHT BPD thing? I wonder how much bail is gonna set me back? <sigh>

[vortex of confusion]

Whether she has BPD or not, you did the right thing!

You protected yourself and your home. There will probably be some fall out but there would be fall out whether you contacted the police or not.

You say bail is going to set you back. Have you considered NOT bailing her out?

Here are some hugs of support!   

[Riverrat]

Thanks VOC, that means a lot to me right now. Didn't think anyone would be awake to offer hugs 

When she was in for DUI/due to rages I didn't bail her out for a long time. It really ruined whatever r/s we had left. She said tonight that she's had no feelings for me since last fall (end of idealization phase) so I guess she is aware of what she felt or did back then.

I don't want her to lose her job, and she's been working on her dui class, but ignoring her T because it's not court ordered.

Thanks for being here... .

[vortex of confusion]

Stop protecting her. She made the decision to do those things.

How would her losing her job impact you in a practical sense?

Do the two of you have shared finances?

Do you live together and share rent?

Or, is it that you don't want to see her hurting?

Think really long and hard about how to proceed. It sounds like she has a history of being violent. Keep your safety in mind.

[waverider]

It was a crisis, crisis have a consequence, if nothing changes there will be another crisis that has even more serious consequences.

You did the right thing, it was beyond your ability to control.

It sucks but dont feel like a failure because you couldn't contain it.

She needs help, and only crisis will eventually make this happen

Waverider

[Loosestrife]

You definately did the right thing, don't undo your positive actions by bailing her out. If my SO ever lays another ringer on me I will make sure they go to prison. Please stay away and get support from family and friends and us 

[an0ught]

Riverrat,

what a horrible evening escalating from absolutely nothing  . You had little choice here. From all what you are saying this train was speeding towards becoming a train wreck for some time and the consequences for that are really outside your control.

Best to take good care of yourself at this point in time  .

[babyducks]

Riverrat,

Safety first.   Always safety first.

I think you did the right thing.

Take care of yourself.   You've had an act of violence directed at you.  That takes a toll.   Be good to yourself today and give yourself some time to absorb all that is going on.

'ducks

[Riverrat]

Thanks everyone for all your support. What a terrible evening, with a tragic end.

Yes, I do believe that in her disordered state she would have called police on me and had me arrested, and then camped out in my place while I sat in jail for a few weeks.

As high functioning, her job is everything to her. Plus it takes her out on the road and away from me for a week at a time.

VOC: Yes she moved in after DUI jail sentence in Feb. She had two other places to go but wanted to stay with me, plus I have to drive her everywhere as her license was revoked. Her money goes to lawyers and court costs mostly, she kicks in a few dollars, but it gets used for her gas, cigs, etc. for her.

waverider: I didn't need to go to the police, as I was out of area, and safe. But I also didn't want her repeating past crimes (bar fights and DUI) Didn't plan on her going to jail. Illinois is not a someone gets arrested state.

Loosestrife, anOught, and babyducks: You are all so right and supportive.  Yes, I need to step back and take a look at what's been going on. Was NOT even close to a healthy relationship. Family and friends saw this.

Even though I didn't sleep much, going to be with family this AM to celebrate Easter. Then I will come home and try to work things through. She can't get out til Monday, as today is a holiday, so that automatically buys me some time.

My lease on this apartment is up now, so could renew or just pack up and move on. Much to think about later... .

Thanks again, everyone, for your support. I feel that I  protected myself, but this was certainly not the outcome  I wanted to see from all my efforts.

[Loosestrife]

  Packing up and moving on might not be a bad idea. Fresh start and all that. Don't do anything drastic without thinking it through. Hope you manage to get some rest and quality time with your family. L

[Sunfl0wer]

Riverrat, your situation sounds awful, sorry about this.  It sounds like you are trying so hard to do what is right, have a lot of compassion and are very concerned for her.

Sometimes after being in a r/s with confusing dynamics makes us confused about what "normal" or acceptable is in a r/s.  I have often had to think about my circumstances from another perspective: "What if I were giving advice to my 21 year old daughter, and she came to me telling me her bf assaulted her, spat at her, etc?"  There have been times in my life, when, I did not know what was ok for me, however, when I put it to myself in those terms, I was able to reflect on things differently, and help myself understand what it means to take care of myself.

[milesperhour]

Just a note of empathy, River. 

I have felt overwhelming guilt every time I have called 911 on my uBPDh, but I am getting over it.  At first I would sit outside the jail all night, worried about his asthma, his reputation, his anger when he gets out ... .but not anymore.  If calling for help from the police is the easiest way to get him to stop, that is what I am going to do.  No more guilt. 

Arizona is a "someone gets arrested state".  So, each time, I have had to deal with him going to jail over night and amassing another misdemeaner charge, and my having to hear from now to eternity how this is all my fault. On the bright side, the prosecuters have been fair with me when I explain that any fine will be mine to pay, not his, since he has not earned a penny in nine years, and have imposed the lowest fine possible.  Nice guys.     I can deal with it now.  What I cannot answer is THE question from the police: Why do you keep letting him back in your life?  It's a co-dependent thing ... .they wouldn't understand.   

River, you definitely did the right thing.  She was wrong, you were right.  Think about it from the outside: You were chased out of your own home by a violent, out-of-control person.  Take all the rights awarded to victims and rebuild your life.   

miles

[hope2727]

You totally did the right thing!

I am so so sorry you are enduring this. No one ever should endure partner violence. EVER! You absolutely, positively did the right thing.

As for her, I am reminded of this. A psychologist told me "His actions have consequences just like everyone else in life he has to learn that. He actions impact you and thats not ok." Sounds like something you have to write on a stick note and carry around like i did.

If you had a child and they stole a chocolate bar would you make excuses for them? Or would you march them back to the store to apologize to the owner, pay for the bar, and sweep the store floors after school for a month? Actions have consequences disorder or not. That is one of the first things they teach you in therapy. She acted dreadfully. Her actions impacted you. The consequence is she was arrested. DO NOT BAIL HER OUT!  Let her sit with her consequences.

I regret not having my ex taken by the police for his actions. In our community we have a zero tolerance policy on DV. I have no ability not to charge him. If the police find out they charge automatically no matter what I say. Luckily here they have some decent psychiatric care once they are charged. So this is the best thing that could have happened to her. Now she will be court ordered into care.

As for yourself. Get some therapy immediately. You are traumatized wether you realize it or not. And start reading co-dependant no more. It saved me in my divorce long ago. It was the second book my psychologist gave me to read. You have to take care of you now. NOT HER! She is a big girl, disorder or not. She has to take care of herself and she will. pwBPD are survivors. She will be fine. You on the other hand will re-read this years later and realize that it went way to far.

YOU ARE WORTHY AND DESERVING OF A HAPPY, HEALTHY, RECIPROCAL, SAFE RELATIONSHIP!

I hate to be so hard on you but I wish someone had been that hard on me. You are being abused. Period. That is not ok.

Here are some web pages that have helped me immensely.

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Behaviors/rage.html

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Behaviors/battering.html

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Behaviors/slipping_by.html

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/victim_blaming.html

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/trauma_bonding.html

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/apologies.html

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/waiting_for_change.html

Its a great web site and worthy of exploring. I put up a few that I thought would hit home for you. But I hope you will take the time to explore all the links.

I am so sorry that you are experiencing this. I really am. Please take care of you. PM me if you like. I will send out some internet hugs for you.

     

[Michelle27]

Don't ever question that you did the right thing.  You didn't have a choice but to protect yourself.  You absolutely did NOT "mess up" at all. 

Not that you need to hear any of my story, but a week ago, I enforced a boundary and now my uBPDh and I are separated for now.  Your story reinforces for me exactly why I insisted on this... .it was after a rage and my absolute fear is things escalating to this point and then not being able to recover from it.  In my husband's case, he's in the process of getting help and has made some progress but not enough to stem the rages and I know there's a strong possibility things are going to get worse before better while he works through stuff.

I want to echo what others have said before me... .it is NOT your job to bail her out.  She created this situation, and you are the victim.  I have concerns that if you DO bail her out, it will give her the idea that you regret calling for help and she will have unspoken approval that what she did was ok and that you will tolerate it again.

Hang in there, take it easy on yourself and try to enjoy the time with family today.

[Riverrat]

Thanks for all the insight, and support.

Traumatized, yes. I know I went to church with my sister, and dropped off some flowers by D21, but this morning is all a blur.

I feel so darn guilty about that happening. I got it that I am the victim here, but to ruin everything we have both worked on, including sending her back to jail after trying so hard to stand by her--all our savings, time and effort, etc. to get her on the right road. Maybe I overreacted--I was out of the house and safe.

But just letting it go and going home this AM like nothing happened would have really given her the upper hand. I've done all I can for her, and myself, all the time being treated like crap, even when she's not raging, nothing is EVER right or good enough.

I know it's very difficult to walk in her moccasins, but just some respect and appreciation other that a hollow "thanks" would be nice.

She hasn't been booked into jail, so will spend today and tonight in holding. No visitors/calls/etc. She'll have lots of time to think, or hate, or resolve to make it better. I guess the choice will be hers... .

But I am tempted to move out of the apt. today, so she can get her things later and just be gone.

I just knew I had to call police and document, based on horror stories from others, and even what the local police sergeant  told me when I first let her move in. I don't even know what happened at the "well being" check that got her arrested... .She has a history of battery within r/s, and with police officers as well. In fact, she is still up on battery charges from December 2014. They booked her on Domestic Violence/Physical contact. Same as she did to an old bf a few years back.

As she said last night. "You men are all the same"

Trying to relax and sort this out. Thanks again for the comments.

[vortex of confusion]

I feel so darn guilty about that happening. I got it that I am the victim here, but to ruin everything we have both worked on, including sending her back to jail after trying so hard to stand by her--all our savings, time and effort, etc. to get her on the right road. Maybe I overreacted--I was out of the house and safe.

Have you read much about being in a FOG, which is an acronym for fear, obligation, and guilt. I still get caught up in the fog from time to time. It is a lot easier to deal with if you know what it is. Here is a link to a workshop about what it means to be in a fog: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

I know it's very difficult to walk in her moccasins, but just some respect and appreciation other that a hollow "thanks" would be nice.

Yes, she has a rough life and you care about her. What about you? What about what YOU have been through? If she hasn't shown it to you up to this point, what makes you think she is going to change and show you respect and appreciation? Realizing that things aren't going to change and that this is the reality of being in a relationship with her is a hard pill to swallow. If you choose to stay and continue to expect those things from her, you will continue to be disappointed.

As she said last night. "You men are all the same"

To end on a lighter note. Whenever a woman says that, it is tempting to say, "Nobody said you had to try them all." 

[Riverrat]

SunflOwer:

I actually have a foster 21yo daughter, so can really relate to your post. You are right, I would tell her and help her get out of that r/s pronto!

Yes, at this point I know I need to take care of myself.

Thanks for an awesome post that really hits home.

[Grey Kitty]

  You did the right thing. (If you haven't heard that enough yet!)

I feel so darn guilty about that happening. I got it that I am the victim here, but to ruin everything we have both worked on, including sending her back to jail after trying so hard to stand by her--all our savings, time and effort, etc. to get her on the right road. Maybe I overreacted--I was out of the house and safe.

No, you didn't overreact. If you had called 911, it *might* have been overreacting, once you were out and safe. Here's what you wrote at the start... .

Anyhow, she beat me up pretty good, punching my face, slapping me, and threw a chair at me, kicking furniture and spitting on me. Telling me what a piece of filth I am and and the worst bf ever. I'm garbage and she's moving out tomorrow. She hates me, I make her sick, I'm a vulgar, messed up excuse for a human being  Sound familiar? I think she quoted the BPD's handbook. 

I tried to validate, and she yelled "Stop mocking me". So I just shut and went to the bedroom, quietly crying on the bed.

She walks in 10 min later, still yelling, slamming doors, punching walls, and threatening me. I grabbed a few clothes and left. Went down the street and just reported to police (They have a report of her rages on file for refeence--prearranged). No pressing charges or anything. Said I was going to stay with a friend, and she would probably be OK in the AM.

Police said they would do a "well being" check on her, in a while, just so she wasn't tearing the place up or hurting herself., and let me know.

... .

Then I get a call from police that she was arrested for domestic battery!

What you describe sounds exactly like domestic battery to me. And you also said she has a long history of it.

Her arrest is a natural consequence of her actions.

I'm thinking that you would do well to let somebody else bail her out... .if she is going to get bailed out at all.

It is OK that you are feeling guilty about all this--it sucks when you are in any way involved with somebody you care about getting arrested! There is nothing to feel good about in this. 

[Spruce927]

Just a thought and something that popped into my head that I wanted to share. 

Pretend you're hearing this exact story from someone else.  Except the sexes were changed.  The responses would be to save yourself, walk away, and basically a consensus that you have battered wife sydrome because your'e still worried about her well being and if she's going to be me "mad" at you. 

It's just something to think about.  Stay healthy, mentally!

[Riverrat]

Yes, VOC, I have read that, but just reviewed it in a different light.

What stood out was:

"Once the FOG button is pushed, BP's will use it over and over."

Actually, I was willing to just let it go by, spend night elsewhere and see if things were normal in the morning.

However, my own fears caused me to document the event, to avoid jail or excessive property damage.

Don't even know what happened when they checked on her, but sure it will be my fault somehow.

Grey Kitty: Yes, I could see it as battery. My issue is I see her as my gf with a disorder. I know it's wrong, but I let the BPD take the blame sometimes. I know it may never change or get any better, and I need to accept that these reactions are part of her life, but I have told her that beating me is unacceptable. I can deal with a few broken dishes or windows, at least for now, but threats against me, or violence will NOT be tolerated.

Looking at it that she crossed the boundary line, and I called her on it. If she was mad that police showed up to check on her--it is her problem. Another Girl might have been glad that I cared enough, and didn't just run to a friends house and forget about her.

As for bailing her out, I put her on victim notification, but I think that when she gets out, just have her take her things and leave. I may move out soon after as I clean the place up. At least if I bail her out, I can watch what goes in her truck. Or let her sit in the jail--be responsible for her own actions, while I move out this week.

On the other hand... .as was said above, we both need to stop, think, and cool down a bit. Don't have the money/time/location to try to get a new place and start over if we do decide to try and make it work.

Maybe I'll move a few misc. items today, just to keep her from smashing or taking them if she makes a break for it, or gets in here when I'm not around. She broke into our previous house to get "her things" when she left once before, but didn't touch any of my stuff that time.

Thanks again for all your words of wisdom and comfort. It's great that you all understand. No one around here has any idea. Even the police said "you might consider just leaving her".

[Riverrat]

Spruce927:

Agreed! and yes I AM still worried about her. We've been friends/acquaintances for over ten years, so I knew she had some anger issues. Guess you could say I allowed her to get close enough to have the abuse directed onto me.

Something to think about if I allow this to continue.

It may well be time to save myself, and just let her and her dog tread water as best they can... .As was said, pwBPD find a way to survive!

Thanks!

Rat

[Grey Kitty]

Riverrat, I'd like to suggest that two ideas which are confusing you only appear to be in conflict.

1. She has a mental/emotional disorder.

2. Her behavior is verbally and physically violent toward you (and others), is abusive, and is squarely within the legal definition of domestic violence.

That her mental disorder fuels/drives the behavior doesn't change the behavior, and shouldn't change the consequences of the behavior.

It is critical that you protect yourself from her.

... .I don't easily recommend somebody leave their relationship... .however what you have described in this topic doesn't sound like it will be very safe for you to live with her as she is today, or a month or two later when she gets out of jail.

[formflier]

 


 

You did the right thing! 

I have had to call 911 on my wife and make other reports to the authorities.

My r/s is better for it.  At the time... .she was p$ssed.  Said it was over and all that.

Don't doubt yourself.

Please let the consequences of this stick... don't rescue.

Again... .my r/s is much better off because of the reports I made... .I stuck to my guns.

FF

 

[Riverrat]

OK, I'm starting to relax a bit and get an actual grip on the situation.

Grey Kitty, she has verbally done this before, I think she slapped me once. It just got way outta hand quickly before I chose to get outta there. So, yes, it is likely to happen again, even if she gets into T.

Yes, she IS diagnosed with sPTSD, and BPD. She does not know of the BPD diagnosis, only her Mom and I do. T wanted to work with her awhile, but we needed diagnosis for a previous court case.

Yes, she has attacked me, her mom, I believe her brother when she stayed with him, and a previous boyfriend. Yes her rage is fueled from the disorder, and I agree there must be consequences if she is ever to realize this is unacceptable and at least start some kind of T, and change some of her attitude toward those that are living around her.

I now feel that I did the right thing with the authorities. Tough love. As my best friend said "you'd be no good to anybody spending your next month in jail, while she lived cost free in your apartment and probably drove your truck around as well."  Very true... .

Protect myself?  YES! She doesn't do this often, and usually I can get a time out before it gets this serious. I should have left sooner, not retreated to the bedroom. But was getting ready for the holiday today. I think if I had waited an hour or so before contacting authorities, we could have avoided this, as she did text me that she wanted to talk as I was making the report. 

She will be on the road for work every week at the end of the month. Only home one day IF I choose to pick her up. I was hoping to get some clarity during her work season, and then see if I wanted to continue the r/s. If she looses her job now, it will be hard financially, as I have loaned her quite a bit to cover fines and lawyers, which she is slowly paying back, while I am keeping us both afloat. Still, there is something to be said for being safe, even if poor :-(

formflier: Thanks for checking in! I was glad to read your post! I was hoping something positive may come out of my contacting the authorities. She will see that I AM serious with the abuse boundary.

I honestly don't know if I can just let her sit in jail again. If she doesn't get released on her own, I will wait a while before bonding her out. I have an emergency appointment with my T after court tomorrow, so I will need to go to that before anything happens. Then I will check in here as well.

My goal was only to document that we'd had a fight, and that I didn't attack her or provoke her. Thanks to preemptive reports to authorities, I was able to show the DV. I'm not sure why they arrested her, but someone suggested she may have admitted it to make me feel like crap. With pwBPD one never knows, i guess.

FWIW, even her Mom supports my position, and knows how difficult she can be. In any case, bare minimum SO will be moving back to her own place, and out of mine. I can't have her stay here and be living in the FOG.

Thanks Everyone! I'll keep you posted!

[Grey Kitty]

Grey Kitty, she has verbally done this before, I think she slapped me once. It just got way outta hand quickly before I chose to get outta there. So, yes, it is likely to happen again, even if she gets into T.

This is another *VERY* good reason to have taken it this seriously and good that the police got involved... .allow me to explain:

Abusive behavior isn't something that stays the same... .it tends to escalate over time. So the fact that the police were involved the first time she got seriously physical is a really good thing--it teaches her that you are serious about the boundary.

On the other hand... .abusive behavior can go the other direction--if the person who is trying to behave abusively encounters consistent and firm boundaries, it gets headed off / avoided earlier and at lower levels of immediate escalation.

Have you enforced boundaries against verbal abuse from her before?

The way I do such things is when I notice verbal abuse (shouting, name calling, berating me, even being unrelentingly critical... .saying almost anything that would make me feel like crap or feel angry... .), I go through a series of boundary enforcement actions.

1. State something like "I won't listen to this." or "I won't be verbally abused." or "I won't be shouted at." (Pick one that is applies. For some people, using the phrase verbal abuse is triggering... .if she's acknowledged that she is sometimes verbally abusive, the word might be more effective)

If she doesn't stop... .

2. Leave the room

If she follows you... .

3. Leave the house

If she blocks your access to leave... .

(I hope you made sure important things like phone/wallet/keys were on you before this got too heated.)

4. Inform her that blocking your access to leave qualifies as domestic violence, and if she doesn't let you out  you will call 911.

5. If you drive off and she follows you, drive to a police station.

... .if you are prepared to leave the house over verbal abuse... .you could remove yourself before she has spooled up to the point where she would attempt more physical abuse.

[HoldingAHurricane]

Ditto to all the wonderful insights and support that have already been offered. I wanted to throw my 2 cents in. Language has a big impact on our thoughts, emotions, and behaviour. You have said a few times you sent your SO to jail or that she will go to jail because of you. That is simply not the case and you are taking responsibility for things far outside your sphere of influence.

You did provided factual information describing her behaviour to the authorities but it is not your choice or decision whether she goes to jail or not, you don't have that kind of power. If she goes to jail it will be because the authorities deem her behaviour warrants a custodial term.

She is more than aware that the way she acted is unacceptable, hence she doesn't attack her boss or co-workers (I'm assuming) like that when they tick her off. It's a choice. She chooses to do that to you and her former domestic partners. Since she has a long history of domestic abuse she is also aware of the consequences. She chose what she did knowing what could happen. Time to let her take her share of the responsibility.

         

[formflier]

My goal was only to document that we'd had a fight, and that I didn't attack her or provoke her. Thanks to preemptive reports to authorities, I was able to show the DV. I'm not sure why they arrested her, but someone suggested she may have admitted it to make me feel like crap. With pwBPD one never knows, i guess.

Right and you did not cause her to be arrested.  When the police came it seems like she ran her mouth... .for whatever reason... .and the officer on the scene used his professional judgement to arrest her.

Just want to confirm that I have the story straight... .


Also... .think through what you will say if she ever asks you about this.

JADE is horrible... .this thing has JADE written all over it.  I recommend that you pick a statement... .possibly say it once... .and be done with it.

Remember... .you can't make her be arrested... .she can... .her interaction with the police.  She will very likely try to "toss" the responsibility on you.  

Don't even justify that with an argument... .have a statement... say it once... .be done with it.

What do you think would be appropriate to say?

FF

[Riverrat]

Thanks, Grey Kitty for the reinforcement!

I did leave the room, and went to bed in another room. She came in 10 minutes later, flipped on lights and attacked me, telling me she was ending relationship, I'm a lousy bf, and that I'm a vile piece of crap, etc. I did hesitate leaving, as we had the holiday in AM. Usually I do take a time out and leave the premises. She cools down in a few hours.

Holding, yes you are correct. She made the choice, and although she often says she doesn't mean or remember most of what she says during a rage, that is no excuse. She knows it is unacceptable and has caused us to separate before, with her rendering an apology later. Well she has to own up to the court at this point. 

Yes this has happened before, and she knows the costs and potential consequences. I AM glad that I stood by this boundary, if we stay together. Whether she can check herself during a rage is anyones guess, but now she knows what the result will be.

Thanks for pointing that out--I feel better about what happened... .

Rat

[Riverrat]

Right and you did not cause her to be arrested.  When the police came it seems like she ran her mouth... .for whatever reason... .and the officer on the scene used his professional judgement to arrest her.

Yes, formflier, police said they were only doing a "well being check" that she was ok, and not trashing the house.  In theory, they should have just checked the house (It was perfectly fine) asked if she was ok, told her I was gone for the night, and moved on. So, I don't know what happened to get her arrested, maybe her mouth, maybe her record, maybe she acted the wrong way.

Keeping in mind the same officer was involved in a previous altercation with her hitting an officer at a bar fight in December?

Right you are! I did not cause her to be arrested! I filed no charges, wouldn't even fill out the victim form, just advised authorities what had happened and that I was leaving town for the night. What happened after that was beyond my control---(but I'll probably still get blamed for it )

JADE--Yes, I am offering too many explanations.  How about something along these lines:

I feel the physical attack on me was not warranted, and I feel hurt that you chose to express yourself in such a violent manner.  I reacted only to protect myself, not to cause police intervention or your arrest. The results of your actions are not my responsibility.

Kinda dry, huh... .

Great Idea to think this out before I face her with an explanation.

UPDATE: She was released with minimal bond this morning, and took a cab somewhere. She may have gone to work, our apartment , or may be in the process of moving out of the apartment. She can't contact me or be with me for 72 hours after the arrest, so no texts or anything.

My guess is she is at our place lounging around with the dog. I'm not sure where to go after work, as we can't be in the same place until tomorrow night. Guess I'll have to stop there and see if she is there, check on said dog, etc. I technically can't even drive her back to her place for the night.

She has to face the judge on Wednesday, where charges may or may not be dropped, and fines/costs will be assessed.

Really wish I could get her court ordered counseling with her T!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

Does she go to treatment?  See a T regularly?

Might want to just not discuss the incident with her... .without a counselor present. 

It's your place... .you did nothing wrong... .so if she has to go somewhere else for 72 hours or so... that's up to her.

It's not your problem to help her comply with the rules "on" her.

It's good we have some time to think about this.

What would a SET statement look like from you with the T being that you won't discuss the incident outside of counseling.  Try that and see if you can post it here.

FF

[ColdEthyl]

Riverrat you did the right thing /hug I am so sorry you are going through this.

[milesperhour]

Yes, formflier, police said they were only doing a "well being check" that she was ok, and not trashing the house.  In theory, they should have just checked the house (It was perfectly fine) asked if she was ok, told her I was gone for the night, and moved on. So, I don't know what happened to get her arrested, maybe her mouth, maybe her record, maybe she acted the wrong way.

Sounds so familiar.  On Feb. 6th, I asked my uBPDh to leave our home/business because of several weeks of raging and humiliating me and others.  I had no intention of getting the police involved, but when he followed me around the place, begging not to be thrown out, one of my employees called the police.  Then, while the police were getting the witnesses' reports and not planning on arresting him, he was so obnoxious toward them, refusing to sit still and shut up, that they slapped the handcuffs on! 

[rarsweet]

I have to point out something someone told me. ... .if you ask for help but keep going back eventually no one will be willing to help anymore.

[Riverrat]

Thanks again, everyone.

Soo depressed about this whole situation. I know it's a BPD thing, even met with my T yesterday, and a close friend this AM.

While trying to take care of myself. like most, it has caused me to go numb--can't sleep, having trouble focusing, jobs are not getting done, and thinking about SO, and if she is ok.

I did speak to her Mom again this AM, and SO is staying at her old place, even tho most of her stuff is with me. She is OK, and Mom said she will talk to me after court Wednesday AM.

So she will either take her things and move out, or we can reach some common ground tomorrow I guess.

Just really need to put this behind me, one way or another. It really is very traumatic, I will work on FF's SET exercise in a while.

I have accepted that it's NOT MY FAULT, and will not take the blame for her actions, or JADE my response to those actions.  SHE is responsible for those actions and any consequences that come from that. My boundary is that I will NOT allow DV or physical abuse in our r/s.  I have stated that to her before, and I feel I have reinforced that now. If she chooses to end the r/s, that is her decision, and I respect that as well.

See you all later---Struggling through a difficult day here.

[formflier]

 

Hang in there... .I'll add some more comments later.

 

Tell us about your support system.  Seems like you have a T... and at least one good friend to lean on.

BPD family is an important part of your support system... .but it is on leg of a system to hold up your "stool"... .(hope that analogy works.


FF

[Riverrat]

Hi FF,

Thanks for your help!

She has a counselor but dBPDgf is too busy to schedule an appt., and hasn't seen her in weeks--in fact has only seen her about 3 times in total.

I see a different T weekly. It is very helpful, as his wife (now deceased) had BPD. He has some great empathy and insight.

My other support system includes a lifelong close friend (more like a brother) numerous male and female friends, and my D21 foster daughter. My family loves SO, but they know she has some issues, but not the whole story.

SET- Not sure on this. Was thinking something along the lines of:

"I feel that some of my actions and comments upset you, and also feel that you are sometimes disappointed with me as your boyfriend. I realize that this greatly upsets you, and am working on the issues you have identified to me, both alone and with my T. I would like to be able to discuss this with you further, but in the presence of your T. Maybe we could schedule a joint appointment this week."

I also posted this response to her:quote author=Riverrat link=topic=274457.msg12601921#msg12601921 date=1428349895]

JADE--Yes, I am offering too many explanations.  How about something along these lines:

"I feel the physical attack on me was not warranted, and I feel hurt that you chose to express yourself in such a violent manner.  I reacted only to protect myself, not to cause police intervention or your arrest. The results of your actions are not my responsibility."

Kinda dry, huh... .


She has to face the judge on Wednesday, where charges may or may not be dropped, and fines/costs will be assessed.

Really wish I could get her court ordered counseling with her T![/quote]


I did spend a few hours talking to my friend this evening, he's met SO, but is of the opinion that I probably need to move on away from her. If she was serious about getting help, things might be different, but he also feels the rages and comments are escalating as she sets the hook deeper.

Thanks for any thoughts FF, and others!

Hopefully things will get back to our "normal" routine tomorrow after court.

[hope2727]

I think your thread should be called "She messed up big time, SO sent to jail."

She is an adult. There is tons of help available and she knows it. If she wants it she will access it. You can do nothing. Let me repeat that ... .YOU CAN DO NOTHING. Let the chips fall where they may.

Meanwhile make a list on a page of everything you want in a healthy relationship. Then on the other side in a different colour make a list of all her choices and behaviours. I think you will be surprised about what you discover. 

[Riverrat]

Hope, You are so right.

Not the relationship I signed up for.

She did this to herself--and I refuse to take responsibility for her DV actions.

We set her up with tools to help herself. SHE needs to pick them and start using them.

[hope2727]

Hope, You are so right.

Not the relationship I signed up for.

She did this to herself--and I refuse to take responsibility for her DV actions.

We set her up with tools to help herself. SHE needs to pick them and start using them.

Well done.

Now what tools are you going to pick up for yourself?

[babyducks]

Hi Riverrat,

I just wanted to chime in and offer my support.   Hang in there!   

You mentioned in an earlier post that you were feeling the fall out from this situation.  I had a somewhat similar situation in my r/s and experienced a lot of what you mentioned,  feeling numb,   having trouble focusing, trouble sleeping.   That's pretty natural.  I also was pretty jumpy and unusually irritable for about two weeks.  My take is that it's a normal reaction to your physical and psychic self being attacked.   It felt to me like recovering from a bad bout of the flu.  So hang in there and keep being good to yourself.  Treat yourself like you are recovering from an illness or an injury because you are.  Push fluids, rest more,   don't start any huge projects.   

I think it's a great idea to practice SET statements before you are actually going to need them.   Smart idea.   This is tough stuff.   I did notice one small thing in one of your statements.   Just my two cents.

"I feel the physical attack on me was not warranted, and I feel hurt that you chose to express yourself in such a violent manner.  I reacted only to protect myself, not to cause police intervention or your arrest. The results of your actions are not my responsibility."

I would tweak that a little to say "no physical attack is ever warranted".   I'm afraid if you leave it the way it is, it leaves an opening for debate.   "oh you feel,... well I feel"  and I would suggest you don't want to any room for maneuvering around the boundary of no violence.   

Good luck today.   I'm rooting for you.

'ducks

[formflier]

Hope, You are so right.

Not the relationship I signed up for.

She did this to herself--and I refuse to take responsibility for her DV actions.

We set her up with tools to help herself. SHE needs to pick them and start using them.

There you go!  That is the answer

Now... given that time is short here... .it is important to realize that you don't control what she does. 

You do control if you allow her back into the r/s if sh is not "picking up tools and using them". 

When you try something like that she ... .most likely... .will try to claim you are punishing her.   You are note... .she has demonstrated she has a problem that is beyond her "self help" or her being able to use her will to overcome whatever is going on. 

Letting bygones be bygones and forgiving with no action on her part... .is unlikely to result in her getting better.

So... .what does all this look like in your r/s.

How can you express that in a positive way to her (if given the chance).

What is the plan to protect yourself if she wants to r/s to continue?

Hang in there!       You are going well processing all this... .IMO... .your attitudes are healthy.  Keep it up.

[Grey Kitty]

JADE--Yes, I am offering too many explanations.  How about something along these lines:

"I feel the physical attack on me was not warranted, and I feel hurt that you chose to express yourself in such a violent manner.  I reacted only to protect myself, not to cause police intervention or your arrest. The results of your actions are not my responsibility."

Kinda dry, huh... .

Still sounds a little like JADEing to me. Two other critiques:

1. Telling her how you feel hurt isn't likely to go well, unless she is in a particularly open and loving mood.

2. Stating that you feel the physical attack was not warranted is way too soft in my book. A physical attack is NEVER warranted. I wouldn't soft-pedal that bit at all. Given how dangerous her history sounds, I'd consider taking the approach that the next time she physically attacks you will be the last time she sees you. Ever.


Instead, I'd be ready for some boundary enforcement... .if she starts verbally attacking you or blaming you for her going to jail, which I expect will happen, I might say something like this:

"Physical abuse is not acceptable. You went to jail because of some combination of your own behavior in the presence of the police and your behavior toward me earlier that day. Blaming the victim of the abuse is also not acceptable."

The most important thing to understand about abusive behavior (Physical, verbal, or any other kind) is the purpose: To control the victim. [NOTE: She may not be aware of this, but that doesn't make her behavior any less effective. I've read some descriptions of how cults brainwash people, and a pwBPD acts as if they read the playbook, even though they haven't!)

The controlling can be accomplished with the threat of abuse or the memory of abuse, as well as by directly being abusive. Blaming you for her abusive behavior ("You made me do it", etc.) is one more part of the package.

So don't let her do any of this to you now. The good news is that with proper boundary enforcement, you can prevent this. Given her history, your boundary enforcement actions may involve calling police again... .or perhaps she is learning to better control herself.

[Riverrat]

Thanks everyone---I'm off to pick her up for court!

Feeling much better about the whole sitch at this point, and where I need to stand with her!

Even wrote out my SET statement. Thanks 'ducks!

[formflier]

Thanks everyone---I'm off to pick her up for court!

Feeling much better about the whole sitch at this point, and where I need to stand with her!

Even wrote out my SET statement. Thanks 'ducks!

So... your first contact with her will be picking her up... .to get her to court?   Hmmm... .why not let her get herself there?

Is the no contact thing over?

FF

[hope2727]

Thanks everyone---I'm off to pick her up for court!

Feeling much better about the whole sitch at this point, and where I need to stand with her!

Even wrote out my SET statement. Thanks 'ducks!

So... your first contact with her will be picking her up... .to get her to court?   Hmmm... .why not let her get herself there?

Is the no contact thing over?

FF

I so agree. She is an adult. She can get to court on her own. Her actions have consequences. This is one of them. Who are you to deny her the life lesson of experiencing that consequence.

I would go with "your actions have consequences" as one of the few and perhaps only things I would say to her.

[vortex of confusion]

Sideline questions to everybody here:  Do we really have to stop doing nice things for our pwBPD, just to "teach them a lesson"?  Would refusing to drive her to court actually teach her anything?  Is this really part of tough love?  I understand the truth of "Spare the rod and spoil the child", but our SOs wBPD are not children!  They are adults and cannot be trained like children.  Doesn't withholding our usual help from our pwBPD seem like manipulation on our part?  Kind'a like, "Then he'll see how much he needs me, and that'll teach 'em!"  What about those of us who do not feel that we need to (or want to) teach anybody a lesson? 

I don't think it is about teaching them a lesson as much as it is about keeping yourself safe. His partner assaulted him. If a stranger assaulted you, would you go pick them up and take them to court? Probably not. Why do we give our partners so much consideration? They abuse us and we feel bad about it.

I don't really see it as being about the spouse. I see it as being about protecting oneself and setting healthy boundaries. If somebody assaults you, gets out of jail, and expects you to take them to court, that seems a bit extreme. If you DO take them to court, then isn't that saying that you don't really have any boundaries? Do whatever you want to me and I will still be there for you?

In my mind, it isn't about teaching anybody a lesson or punishing anybody. If it is done to teach a lesson or get revenge, then that isn't good either. If it is done, it should be done to protect yourself. I think it should be about YOU rather than the other person.

[Riverrat]

Thanks everyone for all your comments and suggestions. I have reread them all several times, and have found them extremely helpful and informative.

My driving her to court came from a convo with her mother, who has been driving her everywhere this week, and loaning her money for her activities, DUI classes, etc.

I had offered to drive to her Mom, knowing she couldn't take off of her job to drive. She is out of money, so taxi not an option.

SO was barely pleasant, looked very distressed and had been crying. Her Mom had talked to her in person the previous evening. We got her there, and her lawyer was unavailable, so the case was continued. I did speak to the prosecutor, not about any of her actions, but about it being part of her diagnosed disorder, which the court is aware of.  Also our financial situation and her dedication to her dui program. With this new understanding, he promised to do what he could to lessen the impact on her.

She had wanted to "talk to me" after court, but on the way back to her place she became quiet, then asked me if I wanted to tell HER anything.  I used all the tools I had practiced to SET, ending with my support for any changes she wanted to make in her life. She asked for some time to think, asking if we could meet for dinner after her DUI class Thurs. night. I agreed to meet with her and dropped her off at her old place.

I could see she was deep in thought and very confused, and when I told her about just reporting the incident, and my concern for her--very surprised. I did share that I could not tolerate any DV in any relationships that I have. She seemed to agree with that.

I feel that I laid the DV responsibility in her lap, with her being responsible for the consequences. She seemed to accept that, but looking to see what she says tomorrow night. Going NC til then, unless she contacts me.

She didn't seem to blame me for jail, and seemed to understand that I was just reporting it to cover my tail, and concern for her safety.  I did state that she often says/does things during rages, not remembering it later, and she was still raging when I left, even in the driveway on Saturday.

I think she got my message about violence and control.

All in all it went well. Though disappointed she didn't come home with me, I feel in the long run it better to think things through. We'll see what she comes up with by tomorrow night.

I took the rest of the afternoon off to relax and organize my thoughts a bit, as I think I need a break 

[formflier]

My driving her to court came from a convo with her mother, who has been driving her everywhere this week, and loaning her money for her activities, DUI classes, etc.

I had offered to drive to her Mom, knowing she couldn't take off of her job to drive. She is out of money, so taxi not an option.

Why would it be the mom's responsibility to drive her?

I'm not suggesting this was wrong... .also not saying it is completely right. 

If there is a pattern of "picking up" after other people even after they continually mess up... .then the people that are "picking up" after the ones messing up... .are actually enabling... or contributing to the issue.

Just something to think on.

Another thought on the DV issue.  Look at her actions to figure out how serious she is about reforming... .getting treatment... etc etc.

After you see plenty of action... .then look to rekindle the r/s... .as opposed to taking her back on promises of action.

The key is that she get better... .get the help she needs.

FF

[formflier]

 

I'm not saying that you are in a bad triangle situation... .just that this is something to be really careful about.

You have a lot of critical things that will be happening quickly in your r/s... .this is something to think through.

Please read and consider triangulation

Hope this helps!

FF

[eyvindr]

Hi Riverrat --

Forgive me for jumping in the middle of your thread -- I know we haven't met yet.

I'm really sorry that you're going through this. There's nothing easy about it. It's clear that you really do care for this person... .I truly believe that, and I believe that it is genuine. I'm sure she cares for you, too... .in her own completely dysfunctional, unhealthy and dangerous way.

Far be it for me to presume that I can give anyone advice -- and forgive me for this unsolicited feedback. But, geez -- this is your life, man. It's cool and noble and compassionate and wonderful that you're able to understand that your lover has issues. In other words, that in many cases all of her deplorable behaviors -- the anger, the selfishness, the abuse, the entitlement -- is out of her control, due to her illness. That may be actually completely true.

But even if she's not in control of herself, she is still completely 100% responsible for her behavior.

Just like you are.

We're the same age, man. W-A-Y too old for this level of childish drama in our romantic r-ships. Old enough to know better. This girl -- I'm sure she's terrific in many ways. But she's dangerous -- to herself and to you.

[Riverrat]

I am not discounting or making excuses for SO deregulating behavior. What she did is not only wrong, but illegal, and threatening to me as well.

BPD or not, when you are attacked, and your SO is not only out of control, not speaking rationally, not being herself, and then can't remember what was said or done. It IS scary. Even having been friends for 10 years as we have been, and seen it numerous times, it is unsettling, and while I can always trust her with anything--truck, money, keys to apt. my wallet anything-I do worry when she deregulates.

I DO agree--she needs help, bigtime. And my best interest is to leave her on the side of the road if she refuses to get it. She needs to show me and Mom that she is committed to reform. Or we really do need to step back until SHE decides to make it happen. I did review triangulation lesson, and can see where this can easily occur.

Eyvindr, I realize this IS a very toxic relationship. It is daily drama, and even though I'm strong emotionally, (raised 6 foster kids) have patience and can tolerate a lot, I realize she IS dangerous both to me and herself.

And she is responsible for her behavior as well. 100%. At this point I will see if she wants our friendship to continue. I AM a long way from having a romantic r/s with this lady.

Thanks again everyone--we will see how things go tonight 

[babyducks]

I took the rest of the afternoon off to relax and organize my thoughts a bit, as I think I need a break 

Good for you River!   

You've been through a lot in a short period of time and you are handling it the best any one could.   This is tough stuff.   I hope you continue to give yourself a breather and take some time to just let thoughts bubble to the surface.

You said you are emotionally strong and holy cow you must be, because you are here writing in full and coherent sentences when I am sure I would be a gibbering monkey.     I have had a violent outburst in my r/s, not as significant as yours, and have felt how draining and depleting it was. 

Please keep taking good care of yourself.   Rest.   Eat.   Sleep.   Exercise a little.   Recharge your emotional batteries.

'ducks

[EaglesJuju]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .