Looking for thoughts on BPD mom experiences

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi - My wife has BPD. I gravitate between the staying-undecided-leaving-legal boards because things are such a roller coaster. The biggest factor now for me in deciding is the impact of a BPD mom on a toddler.

My wife is a doting mother. But disorganized, unable to apply any structure, anxiety ridden. She loves our boy but can't cope with his tantrums (which are trying but I believe are run of the mill kid stuff). Occassionally she loses it in front of him - raging and screaming at me for something she thinks I've done. She doesn't paint him black like me though - she doesn't yell at him or treat him badly in the same way she would me, even when she is frustrated with him.

So my question is, how did your BPD mom's parenting evolve? I know you probably can't think back to toddler days, but my main concern is, if i decide to stay, will she eventually turn on him too? Is there a point when a BPD mom sees a child differently and begins laying the FOG and other bad behaviors on them? My therapist thinks that as he begins to express his independence that this will come. I'm not sure.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[hegrid]

Hi - My wife has BPD. I gravitate between the staying-undecided-leaving-legal boards because things are such a roller coaster. The biggest factor now for me in deciding is the impact of a BPD mom on a toddler.

My wife is a doting mother. But disorganized, unable to apply any structure, anxiety ridden. She loves our boy but can't cope with his tantrums (which are trying but I believe are run of the mill kid stuff). Occassionally she loses it in front of him - raging and screaming at me for something she thinks I've done. She doesn't paint him black like me though - she doesn't yell at him or treat him badly in the same way she would me, even when she is frustrated with him.

So my question is, how did your BPD mom's parenting evolve? I know you probably can't think back to toddler days, but my main concern is, if i decide to stay, will she eventually turn on him too? Is there a point when a BPD mom sees a child differently and begins laying the FOG and other bad behaviors on them? My therapist thinks that as he begins to express his independence that this will come. I'm not sure.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[tortuga]

My D19 was recently diagnosed.

Her uBPDmom, (my wife), is in a much less severe state, these days. But through parts of our daughter's childhood, she was pretty bad. During D19's toddler years, uBPDmom went through a depression, that we thought was post-partum depression. I think this interfered with bonding. Maybe. Her preteen and teen years were pretty rough; but nothing that seemed outside of the range of "difficult teen".  It was her teen years when I started treatment (with a therapist).  I began to use more validation, and setting boundaries, and active listening skills. I think that this helped our daughter.  But I wish I had known she was BPD. I wanted her to get her own therapy, but uBPDw would not back me on that. I think that made things a lot worse for D19. At times, uBPDw has painted D19 black; and even said that she was the reason we were having so many problems in our relationship.

I absolutely think that a child needs "protection" from an untreated BPD parent. Protection in the form of a healthy relationship with a parent who is a non. Whether the child has BPD traits or not.

[beefree]

As I got older, uBPD mom got worse and worse... .she couldn't tolerate the natural separation that needs to happen as a child is transitioning to become their own person with their own dreams and goals, and eventually leave home for college/career.   High school was horrible... .to the point where there was lots of verbal abuse going on, and I hid in my room in fear that something I said or did would cause uBPD mom to blow up. I don't remember things being bad when I was a young child.

Understanding the Borderline Mother by Christine Ann Lawson, might be a book worth reading, it's written for children of BPD moms, but might give you some insight into what could come.

[P.F.Change]

Hi, hegrid,

I am glad you are looking out for your little one. That is very important.

I will start by saying that a person with a mental illness will still be mentally ill regardless of the age of the people around him or her. They may have good days and bad days in terms of being able to regulate that illness.

Many people seem to notice that a parent with BPD might act ok and seem loving and affectionate around a child or grandchild until that little one tries to individuate or otherwise surpasses them in emotional maturity. It sounds like your therapist is saying the same thing. My own mother seemed mostly ok until I was about 9, then I became a target for her rages. I have been treated for depression, anxiety, and PTSD as a result. She did not rage around my children when we were in contact with her, but she did engage in some very manipulative behaviors with them that I needed to be around to put a stop to. She wanted them to make her feel warm and fuzzy, and would get annoyed if they wanted to do something else or if I said no to something she wanted me to let them do. They were still fairly young when we stopped seeing her.

Have you seen these articles and workshops? They may have some information that could help you.

How a Mother with BPD Affects Her Children Talks about the effects of disordered attachment styles on developing children.

When are the Children of a BPD Parent at Risk? Outlines some major indicators of abuse and neglect

Meditation for Children Under StressThis one has a good breakdown of how children of different ages might show they are under stress and offers tools to help them cope

Wishing you peace,

PF

[Spruce927]

Hi Hegrid,

I am going to respond to your post honestly, even though it could not be what you want to hear. 

I am 30 and currently estranged from my BPD mother for 4 months now.  Your post really hit me because you said that your wife is a "doting" mother.  It sounds like something that my father would have said about her.  She centered her life around my sister and I, yet in so many ways she was an absolutely terrible mother.  She was so involved in our school life, took us on trips, there every day after school etc.  However, when a mother with BPD is raising a child I believe things only get worse with age. 

As we got older, she had a very hard time separating from us.  She was also incredibly critical, verbally abusive, and couldn't cope with anything.  We grew up with a mother who made us walk on egg shells.  We never knew who we were going to get.  It could be a mother telling us how much she loved and "lived" for us, or a mother filled with rage and hatred.  That is something no child should have to deal with.  My sister has not spoken to her in over 3 years.  Due to her disorder, she will not allow her to see her 2 year old son.  I do not blame her. 

Yet, according to my mom she was this amazing mother who did EVERYTHING for us.  We're "spoiled brats" as far as she's concerned. 

I don't know your wife, and I don't want to sound overly critical but my mother did some serious damage to us.  It is just now at 30 that I remember some truly horrible memories and her abusive words are slowly fading from my mind.  I love my mother and always will, but not speaking with her is the best thing I ever did.  I have terrible anxiety and suffer from panic attacks.  This is directly linked to her behavior as I got older.  She only became worse with age. 

Her and my father divorced when I was 25, and it's only now that we openly discuss her illness and share stories.  He was clueless about a lot of things my mom did and I did hold resentment against him for not protecting us from her venom. 

You say that she only rages and freaks out on you.  My heart breaks that you have to go through this and a child is involved.  I really hope it stays this way, but even so I have memories of my mother raging on my father that will last a lifetime. 

I wish you well!

[nursedaughter]

My BPD mother was better when we were young (2 siblings, 1 brother, 1 sister). (Mom was eventually married and divorced 4 times, FYI)  But my sister, as the eldest, began having it pretty hard when she turned 10 or 11.  Then my brother, then me.  She seemed to get worse as we each started to separate from her in a normal attempt to form our own identities.  As long as we were very young, we shared her identity.  But when we tried to grow up/grow apart from her, all hell descended upon us.  We became the enemy... .because if we weren't "with" her (buying in to all her ideas and opinions), we were obviously "against" her.  So we learned to walk on eggshells, and today... .my sister struggles with feelings of inferiority and chronic anxiety.  My brother became a drug addict in his teens and has continued to live that way.  And I have depression and PTSD.  I am lucky to have married a wonderful and stable man (my sister did also) and I have a great life otherwise.  My mother passed away in 2009 and I admit I never shed a tear for her... .because the last 15 years of her life were pure hell.  But I still suffer from bad dreams about her, about trying to get away.

[Panda39]

I'm the SO to a man with a uBPDxw and two daughters.  D18 was the Golden Child that was enmeshed and emotionally suffocated by her mother.  She is has chosen to go very low contact with her mother (has seen her maybe twice in the last 5 months).  D14 is low contact with her mother too.  She has been diagnosed with PTSD, suffers from depression, has been inpatient psych for a suicide threat, and cuts. 

Their mother created a lot of chaos in the lives of my SO and their daughters.  Once they divorced her behaviors became even more apparent.  She was both neglectful and indulgent with her daughters but could never do the work of day to day parenting.

You are way ahead of my SO though he did not discover BPD until he and his ex had already been separated for about a year.  His daughters would have been about 10 and 14 when he figured it out.  Between then and now he has learned a lot of skills to deal with the ex and support his daughters.  Both daughters have been in therapy and the younger one continues to be.

I'm really glad you asked the question and are there for your son.  Your involvement with him will be key.  He needs to have his feelings validated especially if mom rages or does something inappropriate.  He needs to know when things are not his fault.  Keep therapy as an option for later on down the line.  My SO's daughters have found it helpful to talk to someone outside of the situation that has helped them with coping skills, support and validation. Take care of yourself too so you can be the best dad you can be. Keep coming here too there is a wealth of experience, knowledge and ideas among our members

[oceaneyes]

I'm 29 years old and have only recently realized that my mother most likely has BPD. When I was younger my mom was a very hands-off parent. I never received help with my homework and I was never encouraged to explore my own talents. I was constantly criticized for my appearance, she would call me names and yell and scream about seemingly random things, but then the next minute would turn around and be loving to the point of smothering. It's very confusing as a child and even now as an adult.

I was a do-over for my mother, so she encouraged me to do things that she either did or wanted to do. She was in marching band in high school, so she encouraged me to do the same (which I  did). She wanted to go to a particular college, so she encouraged me to go to that school as well (I did and it was the only college I applied to). I believe the only reason I wasn't abused more in my teen years was because I did everything she asked of me, and also because I was out of the house so much doing marching band activities.

It was only once I graduated college and started building my adult life with my DH that she made me her target. Our relationship has deteriorated quickly over the last four years because of her actions. Currently I'm in limited contact leaning towards no contact.

Children are resilient though—I never knew that I was being neglected, or that I was being emotionally and verbally abused until a therapist helped me put the pieces together. I can say now that a lot of the things that I don't like about myself are due to having being raised in that environment. I have had to mourn my childhood and mourn the ideal mother that I never had.

I think it's great that you're here, learning, and trying to be the best advocate you can for your kid. I know I wish I had had someone in my life that could have done that for me. Shield and protect him as much as you can—be a shining light in his life and show him what a normal loving relationship is. At 29 years of age, I'm just now figuring all that out.

[hegrid]

Thank you all so much for sharing your stories. It brings me me to tears to think about children enduring this and the effect it has had on you. I'm almost 40 and I know how hard, confusing and saddening it has been for me. So I can't imagine. You are all really strong people and I appreciate your support, ideas and stories.

I see similarities in your stories and things that obviously worry me that I already notice. I think someone mentioned how resilient kids are and I think that's right. But an invalidating environment, the instability of not knowing what to expect, can take its toll. There's no real easy answer. She's not so low functioning or out of control that it would lead to my gaining custody really. So I'm just going to protect my son no matter what, provide the stability and peace I can, and prepare for the worst while hoping for better.

Did your mother have friends or outlets outside of the immediate family? This is an issue for us now. She can't or won't attempt connect with anyone despite opportunity. It's like an enforced isolation that she complains about but won't make effort to change. I think it would interfere with the enmeshment.

[oceaneyes]

Did your mother have friends or outlets outside of the immediate family? This is an issue for us now. She can't or won't attempt connect with anyone despite opportunity. It's like an enforced isolation that she complains about but won't make effort to change. I think it would interfere with the enmeshment.

My mother absolutely has no friends, she rarely leaves the house other than to go to work or grocery shopping. I have encouraged her to join a gym, take part in some sort of community program, join a craft group, or to do some volunteer work, and she always seems receptive but then never does it. She complains constantly about being alone, hating her husband, the fact that she's adopted, etc but she does nothing to change her situation.

She stalks my friends (former and present, but mostly my friends from high school) on facebook. I believe she thinks they're her friends. She talks about them as if they're celebrities in a tabloid. She also seems to keep in touch with her old high school friends on facebook. Basically she only socializes on facebook, which I don't believe is healthy.

When she's not raging at me, I am her "whole world," her "only reason for living," the "only blood" she has. It's a burden to feel like you are responsible for someone else's feelings.

She had one really good friend that I believe she was enmeshed with, she called her "mother" and talked to her constantly on the phone. It seemed to me like that friend liked having someone to rescue, and enjoyed being a motherly figure to my mom. It also seemed like a toxic relationship though, my mom would split this friend—they went back and forth between being very close and not talking at all. I think that friend, along with my step-father, really took the brunt of her rage for a while. Her friend died recently and her rages against me worsened—I think my mom wanted me to take her friend's place emotionally but I'm obviously not comfortable doing that. She's not capable of having healthy friendships with people, she's too intense and extreme. She either hates you or she puts you on a pedestal that you're bound to fall from, so everyone ends up disappointing her. I think in her eyes, it's just easier to be alone.

[Panda39]

My SO's uBPDxw has about 3 people that are her "friends" but they are in reality the people she uses for rides, money and simpathy (because she is the poor unfortunate victim of so many things  )  She like oceaneyes' mom uses FB to be in contact with High School & College friends that she never actually sees in real life.  I think it is easier for her to maintain the sembalance of looking normal through FB.  With the FB friends life is just superfantastic don't you know! 

I don't beleive she is capable of true friendships in the sense that you and I would define it. 

[Spruce927]

Hi Hegrid,

To answer your question my mom did have friends, yes.  In typical BPD fashion she always had some sort of fall out with them.  Let me ask you, in the relationship your wife has with family or past relationships, are they rocky?

You are in a very difficult situation, and sadly your child will face much instability.  Children are resiliant as you've said but those feelings come out one way or another.  In my adulthood, I had a lot of issues due to being raised by my mother. 

The good news is, I had a VERY stable and kind father who did everything he could to make up for my moms rages.  Your child will remember you as that rock forever.  Keep that in mind!

[nursedaughter]

Hegrid,  my uBPD mom never had friends.  She dominated her siblings, her mother, her husbands, and we children.  She had sisters-in-law over the years (4 failed marriages) and she was always talking behind their backs and belittling them and antagonizing them.  The same with the mothers-in-law.  I also encouraged her to do social things but she never did.  She just left the house to shop and for doctors' appointments.  When family came to visit, she "held court" in a queenly manner at her dining room table while she applied her makeup, smoked, and drank Pepsi.  I got REALLY tired of attending this ritual... .especially when we had planned to go somewhere "at 11" and when I would arrive to pick her up she would never be ready.  It was always at least an hour before we could leave.  When my husband and I married, we would sometimes take her and my step-dad out for a nice dinner for her birthday, mother's day, etc.  She always acted uncomfortable and discontent, and she made sure everyone knew it.  We quit taking her out after the first few failed attempts. 

[Is This Normal]

Hegrid,

Like others have shared, my mother could be "doting" or "abusive", all depending on where she was emotionally and how threatened/insecure she felt. I, of course, believed that all her mood swings were based on me and my actions, and that has had a huge impact on me (negative) and my ability to form relationships. I have an extremely hard time feeling safe in any relationship, because I am always, always, alllwwwaaayyysss, waiting for that other shoe to drop, for the person to turn on me, no matter how long I've known them, no matter how gentle and kind they've always been. This hypervigilance is exhausting, and I just can't seem to get shut of it. I'm reading up on CPTSD right now and am coming to believe I may have it.

Also, as others have stated, things seemed to get progressively worse as I got older and attempted to individuate. My earliest memories of "mean mommy" came out when I was about 3 or 4, and she never went away. She just could not handle me having separate thoughts, ideas, and feelings. I think in her mind it was an endless betrayal on my part. And I, having no one to explain what was really happening, felt alternately angry and guilty for wanting to grow up and leave the nest. I am 43 now, and I still feel like I'm caught up in some sort of limbo. I am independent and self-supporting, but I still live within a few hours of where I grew up, have never had a successful long-term romantic relationship, and feel like there's this invisible tether between my mother and I.

One thing I want to mention that I didn't really see stated in the other posts (if I missed it, I apologize) was the effect of seeing my mother rage at my father. It was extremely upsetting, and he did little to nothing to defend himself. It didn't help that she often harassed him about not doing enough with my brother and I (that was her take on it. While my dad was pretty shut down emotionally, he was very involved, always taking us places, even if it was just out to run errands, and he was always gentle and kind). But I came to believe that I was somehow responsible for the turmoil in their relationship and that if I didn't exist, it would be better somehow for everyone. I have this feeling, even as an adult, that my very existance somehow poses a hazard and a danger to others. That I am a burden. I've worked very hard for a long time to make myself very quiet and very small so as not to take up much space, not to cause someone else even a whisper of discomfort. All while trying to tamp down volcanic levels of rage at the boundary violations I endured and that still small voice inside crying out at the inustice of it, that I have a right to be here and take my place, just like everyone else.

Of course, this story is about someone who's father was enabling and unable to see how sick his wife was or speak up on their behalf. So, my words are not meant to discourage you, only to let you know how important it is to be in your son's corner and to speak up for him and with him, about his mom. He's lucky to have you. Just don't let him down. Somehow I don't think you will. 

-ITN-

[tortuga]

. . . .  Your post really hit me because you said that your wife is a "doting" mother.  It sounds like something that my father would have said about her. 

I think I would have definitely said this about my uBPDw.

It is very difficult for me to look at this aspect, and be critical. I don't SEE the abnormality. I think she actively concealed it from me (like she concealed so much else).  But I also blinded myself to it.  I didn't WANT to see it. I didn't want to believe it.

. . . She centered her life around my sister and I, yet in so many ways she was an absolutely terrible mother.  She was so involved in our school life, took us on trips, there every day after school etc.  However, when a mother with BPD is raising a child I believe things only get worse with age. 

As we got older, she had a very hard time separating from us.  She was also incredibly critical, verbally abusive, and couldn't cope with anything.  We grew up with a mother who made us walk on egg shells.  We never knew who we were going to get.  It could be a mother telling us how much she loved and "lived" for us, or a mother filled with rage and hatred. 

I don't know if I could describe my uBPDw this way.

I know she can be critical, and verbally abusive, to me, but if she did this to our kids (or maybe just our daughter) - I can't say that I saw it. Or maybe I saw it and blinded myself. . .

Or maybe my daughter's accusations were a symptom of HER BPD?

I guess, as far as our son is concerned, he was always always painted white.

My wife liked to point out how our daughter's birth was so traumatic to her. How she was a "difficult" toddler. I didn't think she ever said that in front of her.

. . . One thing I want to mention that I didn't really see stated in the other posts (if I missed it, I apologize) was the effect of seeing my mother rage at my father. It was extremely upsetting, and he did little to nothing to defend himself.

This is so much ME.

I do not defend myself, because, I learned early-on in this relationship, that the more I defend myself, the more dysregulated she gets. I take the punches to keep the peace.

Now, my uBPDw does not rage violently. But she does have a mean streak, and her rages are quiet and calm. But they are brutal. I know that our son (21) is aware. And he has had a habit of being enabling in his relationships, but he has stood up for himself, eventually. Which makes me glad.

... .It didn't help that she often harassed him about not doing enough with my brother and I (that was her take on it. While my dad was pretty shut down emotionally, he was very involved, always taking us places, even if it was just out to run errands, and he was always gentle and kind).

Again. Pretty good description of me. . . 

Though I know that when my uBPDw says these things, she's dead wrong.

She accuses me of working too much. I do work a full time job, but I travel less than a lot of guys I know. My brother, my dad, my brother in law, all traveled. Usually at least once a month. I work about 50 hours a week. It's just flat-out absurd to say that I was at work too much.

Plus, I spend many hours every day with the kids: one-on-one, when they were young. I read to them every night. I worked closely with them. I did boy scouts with our son. I went to all of our daughter's hockey games.   And uBPDw still tries to accuse me of being "uninvolved".

But I came to believe that I was somehow responsible for the turmoil in their relationship . . .

- that is so sad. I know my kids don't believe that. I think they're both aware of where the chaos comes from - even if they have no clue what she really did to me.

. . . Of course, this story is about someone who's father was enabling and unable to see how sick his wife was or speak up on their behalf.

It's very difficult, and complicated, for a person who is committed to family, to turn on a member of the family - even if they are a member by marriage.  My uBPDw did some pretty horrible things, to me. I keep them secret - because I don't want my kids to know, and I don't want other people to know this about my kids' mother.  For the longest time, I felt embarrassed for myself. But I'm over that now.  Maybe that's enabling to her.  I don't really give a f--k, because at the end of the day, she has to be responsible for her own behavior. That's not on me.

But you've given me a pretty strong insight, that maybe my kids see more than I see. And they're wondering why I put up with all this. I know I feel "trapped" - and I guess they must feel the same way.  Maybe where I've failed is where I've not been a strong enough advocate for my kids. Maybe that has hurt them. That is on me.

[bethanny]

My uBPD mother.  When I was three I told her I hated her and she icily walked to the bedroom I shared with my grandmother and began packing my bag.  I watched in horror asking myself if she didn't know I couldn't take care of myself out there in the dark cold scary world.  It showed me she played hardball and no unpretty feelings were ever to come out of me or abandonment and rejection would come fast and furiously.  

Years later when I shared the memory, the family including my mother thought it was tremendously funny and it was referred to it as the time my mother used "psychology" on me.  It was a traumatizing and defining moment in my relationship with my mother.  I had no existential freedom to express my real feelings around her, unless they were positive.

When I was very and worrisomely late coming home from school at the age of 5 she freaked out, which was natural, but when I got home she shook me until my teeth rattled and demanded over and over and over and over, "":)idn't you know how I'd feel?" and also screeched out "WE ALMOST CALLED THE POLICE" as if I deserved to be arrested (how a 5-year old would take that exclamation) and the rest of the family was enraged at me because I had upset her that much. Concern for my welfare was lost in the swirl of concern over my hysterical mother.  Of course she would be upset worrying about a child missing. But maybe some celebration that the child was safe might be normal rather than heavy-handed verbal clobbering.

I was made to go upstairs in a big old creaky house as punishment where I was afraid to be all alone.  No one let me explain why I was late which involved a fellow kindergartener who had been locked out of her house and I was raised to be a little caretaker. My mother had apparently been so worried about my welfare but she treated me with so much cruelty it was crazymaking that you would treat someone with such malice you supposedly had been so lovingly worried about.  And she inspired the whole family to express that malice for my lack of consideration of my mother's anguished state.

What was hardest for me as a little kid and later as young adult and older was not only her turning people against me so fast with her high drama performances but when after my mother lapsed into that annihilating and righteous angry demonizing of me place she would turn into the role of the "normal nice" mommy but NEVER acknowledge her psychological and verbal abuse of me, apologize or explain or talk about.

When I got older and braver I found that if I tried to talk about the anger incident because it was surreal having her flip back to seeming normal after the abuse as if it had never happened my trying to assert to her about it simply re-triggered that dark persona back at me, more vilification from the witch mommy like a switch had been flipped again.  Then eventually she would flip back into the "nice mother" never accounting for that extreme behavior with me.

Normal and healthy conflict resolution is sorting through angry outbursts if not at the time, later when things settle down but I never saw that sorting out happen with others and it never was presented as an opportunity with us.

I wanted the nice mommy to explain or apologize for witch mommy but nice mommy didn't seem to have a clue she had ever been witch mommy which was crazymaking.  Nice mommy, butter wouldn't melt in her mouth seemingly.  

And how did my mother see me?  The real me.  :)id I have witch mommy's projected identity or "nice mommy's"?  It really was like living with a mother with 3 personalities -- the witch, the hysterical child or the safe nice mommy, except safe mommy wasn't really safe because she disappeared in a NY second and her replacements were either merciless or inconsolably out of control.  And my self-identity was so compromised.  Was I a good little girl or one deserving exorcism. Having both mirrored back and forth so often was VERY damaging to my self-esteem and prevented a healthy basic and easy self-acceptance of my human-ness.

I tried so hard not to trigger the two scary mommies and keep nice mommy around by trying to super please her which meant focusing on her needs at the sacrifice of my own. I never seemed to exhale around her I was so vigilant about the next ambush. And no matter how hard I tried I could not second guess all the time how she would feel about all things and in spite of my trying be vilified and shamed for failing.  Guilt is when you know you have done something wrong and the nature of it.  Shame is more insidious because often you are made wrong for something you did not and maybe still do not understand was or is wrong.

[Overseas1899]

Hegrid:  our children are s13 and d11. S13 and myself have been targets since he was age 2. I've stayed because I wanted to protect him. Things always escalate when I leave the room go outside, etc so I always have my ears open and aware. I feel that I'm a buffer. I don't know if it's been the right thing to stay but I didn't want him having 50 custody and me not knowing what was happening. If I had a do over, now that I know it's uBPDh, I think I would have called the police to have it documented. UBPDh seems to change so often that I bet he would be embarrassed by police coming but move on quickly. Things are 1000% better now that I know wth I'm dealing with and found this board 3 years ago. Inform yourself and read read read. Read stop walking on eggshells book.

[claudiaduffy]

Hegrid, I want to add on to what Is This Normal said here -

One thing I want to mention... .was the effect of seeing my mother rage at my father. It was extremely upsetting, and he did little to nothing to defend himself. It didn't help that she often harassed him about not doing enough with my brother and I (that was her take on it... .

Like many others here, my uBPDmom's problems with her children only showed up as we began to individuate. My mom is a fairly light case of BPD - she came from a very verbally abusive/somewhat physically abusive home, and she did what I have always been able to recognize as a laudable job stopping herself from using foul language or physical abuse on her own children. However, her own disorder was strong enough that I experienced some damage at her hands in the form of covert (emotional) incest.

Even though I am her daughter, not her son, she in many ways used me to make up for what she perceived to be my father's lacks. My dad was actually not really an enabler of her behaviors. He stepped in occasionally to stop my mom in her tracks when she was really losing it with us kids, though he did so in a way that was pretty respectful of her and kind to us kids - had conversations with her in another part of the house, away from us. Of course, he couldn't do this when he was at work and we were all home (we were home-schooled, so we had a lot of time with just our mom), though we lived close to his work and he was home for lunch almost every day. Dad was actually fairly involved in our education (he's an electrical engineer, and was our primary coach for high school mathematics and science), and was a fun and loving guy for us kids to be around.

So it never made sense to me as a preteen and teen when my mom would tell me how he wasn't there for us like she wanted him to be, and how he didn't love her as well as he did when they were first married, et cetera. She insinuated things about their sex life that were inappropriate for me, as their young daughter, to hear. She went to me for comfort instead of to him. (This was between her days of being rage-filled, berating us over tiny mistakes in our behavior, trying to control our thoughts.)

While I will always value how my dad treated all of us with a creditable amount of respect and gentleness, I really really wish he had insisted that my mother get professional help for her imbalances. He never would, partially because he didn't "believe in" psychology, and partially because my mother was always dragging him to marriage counselors (who were either ineffective - believing my mom over my dad and thinking their problems could be solved by better attention to "love languages" or something - or TOO effective, seeing what was going on, at which point my mom dropped them like hot coals.) He just kept mitigating the worst of what she did, though I think he missed much of the emotional trauma and manipulation she piled on us - probably because what she did to him was worse than what she did to us. I remember waking in the night and hearing her screaming at him, accusing him of vile things, hitting him and trying to shove him out of the house. What I learned from his behavior was how to protect my two younger siblings from what I could, by bearing it myself. I wish I had had modeled for me the option to go outside the family for help. I also wish my dad had stopped me, as a teen, from going after my mom to calm her down in her rages and depressions. For far too long I was her mom/husband/emotional nursemaid, and he let me do it.

Things could have been far, far worse for me. But they were bad enough. And after the three of us kids left home, my dad left my mom and now lives with another emotionally enmeshed woman and drinks his evenings away when he has enough money for booze. I wish he could find his way to health.

[hegrid]

Hi Hegrid,

To answer your question my mom did have friends, yes.  In typical BPD fashion she always had some sort of fall out with them.  Let me ask you, in the relationship your wife has with family or past relationships, are they rocky?

You are in a very difficult situation, and sadly your child will face much instability.  Children are resiliant as you've said but those feelings come out one way or another.  In my adulthood, I had a lot of issues due to being raised by my mother.  

The good news is, I had a VERY stable and kind father who did everything he could to make up for my moms rages.  Your child will remember you as that rock forever.  Keep that in mind!

Thank you for that - I really hope that my wife can improve to the point that our boy has a stable and strong relationship with her but I'm glad to know that a father can make a difference.

My wife hasn't spoken to her parents in three years. They have seen their grandson once. She has a couple of 'long distance' friends, but when they lived nearby she often feuded with them over minor things and talked about them badly.

She has no friends or support (outside therapy) now which of course puts it all on me. It's hard for us to do things in public because of her instability but of course I am a bad person if I try to see my friends separately. I am concerned how that will play out as our son has more public school activities with other parents involved.

We have made a lot of progress recently. One of the things that seemed to shock her was losing her temper badly on me in front of him and seeing him cry. She is in counseling and genuinely seems interested in DBT and getting better. I have learned to respond more productively. She still has issues regulating her mood, her anxiety and losing her temper, but she seems to recover faster.

A lot of your stories involve mothers or partners  who won't seem to acknowledge their issues. My wife has always alternated between acceptance and denial. After periods of being horrible, she will feel guilty and fall into a depression, slowly improve her mood and things are stable. And then something minor happens and the cycle repeats. This is in some ways easier to deal with - it's easier to feel sympathy when her pain is so evident versus being in denial always - but in other ways it's even more unstable because, as others have said, you are constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop when things are going well.

I really appreciate everyone's stories and comments. This has been really helpful to me. I am at a good place. I've learned to set boundaries, I have my own t, I see friends and family. I am worried about the effects of our environment on my boy especially as he gets older but I'm doing what I can. She also knows that this is my red line and I genuinely believe she's doing the best she can even though much of it so driven by her whacked out brain chemistry and own terrible upbringing. That's not any child's fault though, so I'll continue to be vigilant for the boys sake.

[laurakt17]

Hegrid,

I truly hate to tell you this, but most BPD mothers get worse over time. My parents divorced when I was a baby, and my father sounds much like you. He loves my sister and I so much, and never imagined that my mother would treat us as terribly as she treated him. The first (and in my mind, worst) thing my mother did was to take us away from our father, then turn us both against him. 

We were raised to believe that my father didn't want us, and that the few visits she allowed only happened at all because she begged him to come see us.  None of that was true; she didn't allow his calls to reach us more than every two weeks and we were only allowed to see him twice per year. 

My sister and I were also raised to meet my mother's endless needs. It's called "splitting" in some circles; the BPD Mom needs to have an ally and an enemy in her life to exercise her emotional instability.  In cases with one child, they often have to fulfill both roles. My sister was cast as the 'enemy,' leaving her to deal with the brunt of my mother's rages. I was the 'ally,' who handled making peace with everyone and acting as my mother's confidant and best friend from a young age.  We both dealt with constant emotional abuse and fear conditioning that we still struggle with today.

If there's any way for you to build a case against your wife to declare her an unfit parent, I would recommend that path.  Get custody of your son and remove him from a toxic situation. My father will always regret letting my mother have us.

[happykiwi]

I'm sorry but I have to agree with laurakt17.  My Mum came across as so wonderful.  But out of hearing she was telling us how she wouldn't have children in another life, how I was spiteful, selfish, aggressive and unkind, she told me that message from as long as I can remember.  I spent most of my life till my late 20's being a people pleaser and terrified of making mistakes.

I remember when I was about six I must have pinched my younger brother and I remember her raging at me and pinching the underside of my upper arm so hard it was white hot pain and I had a bruise there for about two weeks.  I remember her distinctly telling me to not tell Dad and I didn't.  I should've though.  BTW I never pinched anyone again and I have a very bad reaction if someone pinches me even in jest

I feel for the situation you are in this whole BPD thing sucks.

[polly87]

Hi  ,

Like Spruce, I am going to be honest to you, Hegrid. I am not going to tell you what you should do but I will tell you about some of my experiences with my uBPD mother.

Occassionally she loses it in front of him - raging and screaming at me for something she thinks I've done. She doesn't paint him black like me though - she doesn't yell at him or treat him badly in the same way she would me, even when she is frustrated with him.

My mother would often lose it in front of me during a discussion with one of my stepdads. I remember her hitting him with a hard suitcase, throwing hot liquids in his face, and throwing bricks at his car. I have lost track of how many times she shouted at him and called him names while I was present.

However, she did not shout often at me when I was a kid (that only started when I was a teenager). Is the above not bad enough, though?

Hegrid, this may not be what you want to hear, but such experiences are traumatising to many kids. Some are so extremely flexible that they seem to cope with the worst of circumstances but please do not believe your son is one of them. He may not be.

I have PTSD because of the many forms of abuse I was subjected to in my youth. Your son may not develop PTSD but he will surely be affected by the unsafe circumstances at your home.  I myself still suffer the consequences of seeing my mother and stepdad fight. I do not trust people. I expect the worst. When triggered, I think other people will hurt me instead of help me.

Showing your son unconditional love is one of the most important things you can do to help him. Providing peace and stability as much as possible, like you said above, is a great idea.

I am wishing you wisdom to deal with this situation.

Oceaneyes, I am sorry your mother is so engulfing. I think you are very brave to deal with this continuing enmeshment.


Wishing all of you the best.

[lavalove]

I read some of the beginning responses and wholeheartedly agree. According to my dad, my mom got worse over time, although I apparently even as a baby refused to be fed by her. I knew at an early age, very intuitively that she was not safe, and I basically lived my entire life terrified of her rages. When it is your mom with BPD, you are torn as a young child because you have an instinct that she is not safe but you need her to survive. It is literally being afraid for your life. When my mom wasn't raging, she was constantly depressed or anxious. She rarely provide any sense of physical nourishment, forget about emotional. There was a lot of neglect. As a teenager I started cutting just to deal with things, and no one in my family was aware.

I'm responding to this post because of this- I recently talked to my dad for the first time about how he could let me grow up like this. He would frequently go on trips, trigger her fear of abandonment, and leave me with her angry. When I found out that he knew of her disorder my whole life, I was devastated. He never once came to me and said it wasn't my fault or got me counseling. I think he was also afraid of leaving her because he would not have gotten full custody. Your son is blessed to have you as a dad trying to understand how this might affect him. Here would be my advice:

Watch diligently the inner life of your son, and try to maintain a relationship where he will share personal things with you. This won't be easy for him because of the responses he will get when he tries to do this with his mom. I learned to cope by never rocking the boat to avoid the rages, which my dad took to mean that I wasn't expressing any signs of being affected. Rages are probably unavoidable, so try to never let one happen without afterwards tending to his emotional needs. Someone needs to teach him to that is not ok and he does not deserve it. On some level, I think there will always be some resentment, because you can't protect him completely. But do your best to let him know he shouldn't have to endure them. And when he is old enough, he should know that he doesn't have to. He can protect himself by driving away, staying with some friends, etc.

One thing my dad said was that the more he tried to intervene by picking up her slack, the worse things would get. She would feel more guilty for not doing things right and it would come out as anger.

My mom never had any friends and never did anything productive, to answer your other question.

God bless you on this journey, it's incredibly difficult for everyone involved. Try to find a good, loyal therapist. My heart goes out to you and your son.

[pulauti]

Her and my father divorced when I was 25, and it's only now that we openly discuss her illness and share stories.  He was clueless about a lot of things my mom did and I did hold resentment against him for not protecting us from her venom. 

You say that she only rages and freaks out on you.  My heart breaks that you have to go through this and a child is involved.  I really hope it stays this way, but even so I have memories of my mother raging on my father that will last a lifetime. 

My MIL has BPD and these paragraphs really resonated with me. My MIL is still married to my FIL however. Both my wife and I wished for everyone’s sake they got divorced. She loves her father and it would allow him to have a close relationship with us and our kids, and for us to have a very limited relationship with her mother.

That being said, he is a very soft man who hates conflict and it is easier for him to be constantly bullied by his wife than to stand up for himself like he should. He is a very nice man though, he is very helpful when he comes to visit our family (we have 2 kids). However I hold a lot of resentment to him because he DOES NOT protect us from her venom. In a sense he enables her vile behavior by not doing anything and remaining silent always. It really bothers me.

My wife loves her father but for the most part hates her mother. So we are stuck in this situation where we need to have a relationship with her mother because this man won’t walk away from her. That’s fine, it’s his life and he makes his own decisions. But I don’t want to pay the price.

My children are very young now but as they get older I see this becoming a bigger issue. Fortunately we live about 5 hours away, however despite that my MIL has done horrible things over the years. She is a tinder box and I treat her as such, knowing she is very sensitive and will blow up with harmful effects at the slightest thing. Our experience with her is one of serial conflict, where her visits usually ending with a major fight. Eventually tensions cool, and she visits again with the same result. I don’t want my family exposed to this.