Visions of the future

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

For those of you who have read by previous posts relating to this topic, the final court case was last month and a court order drawn up. It was left pretty vague as the magistrates felt I had a good handle on things and every time my ex tried to throw a spanner in, I countered with compromise to the point she couldn't possibly make a comeback.

For example, I want to take the girls abroad in the summer and exgf didn't want that. Not that she has any objection to the girls going abroad but the fact she wants to be the one to take them. This is despite empty promises from her to the girls for at least the last 5 years. She knew the court would deny her objection so she tried to turn it into the fact the girls don't have passports so they couldn't possibly go away. My counter was that if she fills in the forms and gets them sent off, I will gladly pay for the passports (which I have) Likewise, as my lawyer pointed out, if she is stalling for time, I have the rights to fill in the paperwork myself so that made it into the court order that I can take them away, just have to provide an itinerary of where and when to exgf, which I would do anyway.

Now here is where the games are starting to come in. Exgf was so tied up and beaten down by the magistrates that she agreed to everything that was put to her in the end. The only negative she has in her arsenal was one evening when I was 10 minutes late dropping off the girls due to traffic (there had been an accident) but I was able to show that 40 mins prior to dropping them off, I text her to let her know we were stuck in traffic and updated her every 15 mins as to where we were.

What is now happening is she is trying to load so much onto the girls, that I don't get to spend time with them and what she is succeeding in doing is creating issues for the girls. For example, she's overloaded them with cheerleading and dance every weekend that they are both going twice each on a Saturday. First one at 9:30-10:30, then the other at 10:30 -12:30, before the first one is back at 12:30-4:30 and the 2nd one joins in 2:30 - 4:30. Not only that but she has also entered them in dance and cheerleading competitions on many of the weekends it's my turn with the girls as well as galas, functions etc... .

One stipulation in the Order was that despite whose weekend it was to have the girls, the weekend that mothers day falls on, she has them and I have them for Fathers Day. Here's the kicker, she's signed them up for a competition on Father's Day and asked me if I want to have them the weekend after instead. Knowing that it's Father's Day she has said I can have them but I have to take them to the competitions and she will be there too.

My d10 is constantly getting texts from her mother when they are here wanting a complete breakdown of everything they are doing, what they are eating, who is here etc... .and it's wearing everybody out. She even sent a text to D10 this morning telling her to come wake me up at 8am to get them ready for dance. Even d10 was puzzled at that because the first one doesn't go until 9:30 and the dance studio is 5 mins away from my house. It's all about control.

Had a heart to heart with d10 today because she doesn't want to continue with dance anymore, she wants to be a child and have her weekends back. After a week of school, it's too much for her and she doesn't feel she has enough time to rest before being back at school again. What hit home today was when I dropped d4 off at dance today, she was clingy and didn't want to be there either, she wanted to come home with me. In the 2 hours I had between her dance lessons, we snuggled up and watched some cartoons. D4 even asked if she could stay here because everything was too tiring for her too and she doesn't want to do it anymore. I asked both of them if they had spoken to their mother about it and they have. Her response is to keep going for the rest of the year but they are so worn out. D10 fell asleep at the dinner table tonight because she was too worn out.

There are a few things I'm not happy with that d10 talks about but what goes on at exgf's house is down to her, what goes on in my house is down to me but exgf is trying hard to control that. For example, at home d10 is made to go to bed at the same time as d4 something d10 finds unfair and so do I to be honest. At my house, I have a different rule and there is a difference in time. Tonight for example, d4 went to bed, she wasn't happy that her sister wasn't there with her but d10 needs that downtime too. So I sat and read with d4 (something exgf doesn't do. They go to bed on their own and can play on their tablets before they go to sleep) Anyway, we read a couple of books and next thing d4 was alseep. Then went back to d10 and we sat and did her homework together. She often brings it here because I help her where she doesn't get that at home. After her homework, we watched some of her favourite videos on Youtube and then she went to bed. The whole time this is going on exgf is continuously texting d10 demanding to know why she isn't in bed if her sister is and making her feel anxious. I put d10's mind at rest and explained that when she is here, things are a little different and the reasons why. She seemed pleased because someone is listening to her.

She talks to me a lot about things and sometimes I do go against her mother when I feel something is unfair. Another example tonight, she talked about her school photos and how she wanted a school photo this year. Apart from the first year at school, she has had none, her mother won't buy them telling her she doesn't need them and the only ones she can have are her first and last year at school. That upset d10 a little because she wants photos to remind her of her school years, she has memories from this year at school and wanted a photo to remind her of it. What I've done is told her that I would like some photos too so I will buy some and she can have one of the set that I buy.

I really do feel for the girls but the dynamic is changing. Exgf has always been cruel and cold towards d10 and I used to have a girl that was defiant because she knew I was always there to offer that safety and security. When exgf stopped me from seeing the girls (her admission was that she knew d10 would want to go live with me so she cut me out so that wouldn't happen) d10 lost that safety net and has had to endure 4 years of hell and being mentally and emotionally beaten into submission and not having anywhere to turn. During those 4 years, she reached out every way possible and I was always there when she did but with it brought consequences when exgf found out she had contacted me or I had contacted her. Now that safety net is legally there, everybody has noticed a huge difference in her, the confident and happy child of old is back and the shy and submissive child diminishes each and every time. She is getting more defiant with her mother because she knows she isn't trapped anymore. I do draw the line if it's unacceptable behaviour but if it's being unfair to her just for the sake of being unfair, I have her corner each and every time.

What is difficult right now is that the girls are being put in the middle of something that isn't their issue. They are being punished for things they shouldn't and I'm really struggling to hold my tongue on a lot of the issues. What I've taken to doing is documenting how every time I have the girls, how exgf tries some kind of disruption tactic and how it's making the girls feel. For now, I'm not sure how to address the issue or whether I should just continue to document it all and say nothing right now. The reason being that if I do raise the issue, exgf knows there is only one place it could have come from and d10 will be punished for it. Likewise, in terms of d10, if she is punished for something, it creates something of a trust issue because I would have spoken out about something she felt comfortable talking to me about and in turn got her punished for it. What I do see is that the actions of exgf are pushing d10 further away from her and in the end she will lose her because the one thing she feared the most (d10 wanting to come live with me) will happen. I'm just not sure right now how I can protect her without getting her into trouble but at the same time, I can't knowingly keep putting her back into a situation where she feels uncomfortable and not listened to.

The other difficulty is with d4, she is so used to getting her own way and getting everything she wants. I'll be honest in saying she is quite a spoilt child and d10 has had to put up with that where she blends into the background. I have quite the uphill battle here because d4 does want most of the attention but I've caught her off guard several times where I've asked her to wait her turn because d10 is talking or d10 wants to do something and I try and keep it fair between them so they both get the attention, not one having too much and the other having too little. I have a lot of uphill battles because both struggle with eating with a knife and fork, everything is with fingers because exgf doesn't make the time or effort to do things with them. I've just finished teaching d10 to swim because exgf was quite happy to put her in armbands and leave her to it. It's a huge uphill battle right now to establish the basics whilst at the same time navigating the demands and brick walls exgf is continually trying to throw and it's exhausting. D4 is reacting positively to some of those changes, it's difficult for her because the last time I was able to see her properly before being stopped, she was only a few months old. Since then, there have been several people who have come along called "daddy" so I do understand if she needs that extra reassurance or attention but at the same time, I can't let it affect d10 because she has that at home where she is the invisible child so there has to be a balance here and I'm finding that difficult right now given how d4 is.

When I look at both girls, d10 is more like I was as a child, perhaps that's why I often feel she needs that extra protection because I know how she feels, through what she has spoken to me about and also how I felt when I was her age too. D4 I feel if things aren't dealt with and put right, could very well become a pwBPD, after all, she's had a lot of abandonment within her life, some of it on purpose and some of of it outside of anyones control. I just want to get things right for both girls so neither has to struggle or suffer in their own way.

[Ripped Heart]

For those of you who have read by previous posts relating to this topic, the final court case was last month and a court order drawn up. It was left pretty vague as the magistrates felt I had a good handle on things and every time my ex tried to throw a spanner in, I countered with compromise to the point she couldn't possibly make a comeback.

For example, I want to take the girls abroad in the summer and exgf didn't want that. Not that she has any objection to the girls going abroad but the fact she wants to be the one to take them. This is despite empty promises from her to the girls for at least the last 5 years. She knew the court would deny her objection so she tried to turn it into the fact the girls don't have passports so they couldn't possibly go away. My counter was that if she fills in the forms and gets them sent off, I will gladly pay for the passports (which I have) Likewise, as my lawyer pointed out, if she is stalling for time, I have the rights to fill in the paperwork myself so that made it into the court order that I can take them away, just have to provide an itinerary of where and when to exgf, which I would do anyway.

Now here is where the games are starting to come in. Exgf was so tied up and beaten down by the magistrates that she agreed to everything that was put to her in the end. The only negative she has in her arsenal was one evening when I was 10 minutes late dropping off the girls due to traffic (there had been an accident) but I was able to show that 40 mins prior to dropping them off, I text her to let her know we were stuck in traffic and updated her every 15 mins as to where we were.

What is now happening is she is trying to load so much onto the girls, that I don't get to spend time with them and what she is succeeding in doing is creating issues for the girls. For example, she's overloaded them with cheerleading and dance every weekend that they are both going twice each on a Saturday. First one at 9:30-10:30, then the other at 10:30 -12:30, before the first one is back at 12:30-4:30 and the 2nd one joins in 2:30 - 4:30. Not only that but she has also entered them in dance and cheerleading competitions on many of the weekends it's my turn with the girls as well as galas, functions etc... .

One stipulation in the Order was that despite whose weekend it was to have the girls, the weekend that mothers day falls on, she has them and I have them for Fathers Day. Here's the kicker, she's signed them up for a competition on Father's Day and asked me if I want to have them the weekend after instead. Knowing that it's Father's Day she has said I can have them but I have to take them to the competitions and she will be there too.

My d10 is constantly getting texts from her mother when they are here wanting a complete breakdown of everything they are doing, what they are eating, who is here etc... .and it's wearing everybody out. She even sent a text to D10 this morning telling her to come wake me up at 8am to get them ready for dance. Even d10 was puzzled at that because the first one doesn't go until 9:30 and the dance studio is 5 mins away from my house. It's all about control.

Had a heart to heart with d10 today because she doesn't want to continue with dance anymore, she wants to be a child and have her weekends back. After a week of school, it's too much for her and she doesn't feel she has enough time to rest before being back at school again. What hit home today was when I dropped d4 off at dance today, she was clingy and didn't want to be there either, she wanted to come home with me. In the 2 hours I had between her dance lessons, we snuggled up and watched some cartoons. D4 even asked if she could stay here because everything was too tiring for her too and she doesn't want to do it anymore. I asked both of them if they had spoken to their mother about it and they have. Her response is to keep going for the rest of the year but they are so worn out. D10 fell asleep at the dinner table tonight because she was too worn out.

There are a few things I'm not happy with that d10 talks about but what goes on at exgf's house is down to her, what goes on in my house is down to me but exgf is trying hard to control that. For example, at home d10 is made to go to bed at the same time as d4 something d10 finds unfair and so do I to be honest. At my house, I have a different rule and there is a difference in time. Tonight for example, d4 went to bed, she wasn't happy that her sister wasn't there with her but d10 needs that downtime too. So I sat and read with d4 (something exgf doesn't do. They go to bed on their own and can play on their tablets before they go to sleep) Anyway, we read a couple of books and next thing d4 was alseep. Then went back to d10 and we sat and did her homework together. She often brings it here because I help her where she doesn't get that at home. After her homework, we watched some of her favourite videos on Youtube and then she went to bed. The whole time this is going on exgf is continuously texting d10 demanding to know why she isn't in bed if her sister is and making her feel anxious. I put d10's mind at rest and explained that when she is here, things are a little different and the reasons why. She seemed pleased because someone is listening to her.

She talks to me a lot about things and sometimes I do go against her mother when I feel something is unfair. Another example tonight, she talked about her school photos and how she wanted a school photo this year. Apart from the first year at school, she has had none, her mother won't buy them telling her she doesn't need them and the only ones she can have are her first and last year at school. That upset d10 a little because she wants photos to remind her of her school years, she has memories from this year at school and wanted a photo to remind her of it. What I've done is told her that I would like some photos too so I will buy some and she can have one of the set that I buy.

I really do feel for the girls but the dynamic is changing. Exgf has always been cruel and cold towards d10 and I used to have a girl that was defiant because she knew I was always there to offer that safety and security. When exgf stopped me from seeing the girls (her admission was that she knew d10 would want to go live with me so she cut me out so that wouldn't happen) d10 lost that safety net and has had to endure 4 years of hell and being mentally and emotionally beaten into submission and not having anywhere to turn. During those 4 years, she reached out every way possible and I was always there when she did but with it brought consequences when exgf found out she had contacted me or I had contacted her. Now that safety net is legally there, everybody has noticed a huge difference in her, the confident and happy child of old is back and the shy and submissive child diminishes each and every time. She is getting more defiant with her mother because she knows she isn't trapped anymore. I do draw the line if it's unacceptable behaviour but if it's being unfair to her just for the sake of being unfair, I have her corner each and every time.

What is difficult right now is that the girls are being put in the middle of something that isn't their issue. They are being punished for things they shouldn't and I'm really struggling to hold my tongue on a lot of the issues. What I've taken to doing is documenting how every time I have the girls, how exgf tries some kind of disruption tactic and how it's making the girls feel. For now, I'm not sure how to address the issue or whether I should just continue to document it all and say nothing right now. The reason being that if I do raise the issue, exgf knows there is only one place it could have come from and d10 will be punished for it. Likewise, in terms of d10, if she is punished for something, it creates something of a trust issue because I would have spoken out about something she felt comfortable talking to me about and in turn got her punished for it. What I do see is that the actions of exgf are pushing d10 further away from her and in the end she will lose her because the one thing she feared the most (d10 wanting to come live with me) will happen. I'm just not sure right now how I can protect her without getting her into trouble but at the same time, I can't knowingly keep putting her back into a situation where she feels uncomfortable and not listened to.

The other difficulty is with d4, she is so used to getting her own way and getting everything she wants. I'll be honest in saying she is quite a spoilt child and d10 has had to put up with that where she blends into the background. I have quite the uphill battle here because d4 does want most of the attention but I've caught her off guard several times where I've asked her to wait her turn because d10 is talking or d10 wants to do something and I try and keep it fair between them so they both get the attention, not one having too much and the other having too little. I have a lot of uphill battles because both struggle with eating with a knife and fork, everything is with fingers because exgf doesn't make the time or effort to do things with them. I've just finished teaching d10 to swim because exgf was quite happy to put her in armbands and leave her to it. It's a huge uphill battle right now to establish the basics whilst at the same time navigating the demands and brick walls exgf is continually trying to throw and it's exhausting. D4 is reacting positively to some of those changes, it's difficult for her because the last time I was able to see her properly before being stopped, she was only a few months old. Since then, there have been several people who have come along called "daddy" so I do understand if she needs that extra reassurance or attention but at the same time, I can't let it affect d10 because she has that at home where she is the invisible child so there has to be a balance here and I'm finding that difficult right now given how d4 is.

When I look at both girls, d10 is more like I was as a child, perhaps that's why I often feel she needs that extra protection because I know how she feels, through what she has spoken to me about and also how I felt when I was her age too. D4 I feel if things aren't dealt with and put right, could very well become a pwBPD, after all, she's had a lot of abandonment within her life, some of it on purpose and some of of it outside of anyones control. I just want to get things right for both girls so neither has to struggle or suffer in their own way.

[livednlearned]

What a relief that the court case is now behind you. It sounds like it's a transition for everyone, and there is a lot to manage, the normal challenges of parenting, with the added issues that your exgf brings with her.

My son's psychiatrist was explaining to me how a parent with BPD perceives his/her child, and it does help to piece together what motivates some of the behavior. Like blowing up the phone, computer and trying to control things in the other parents house. N/BPDx gave S13 a tablet 2 years or so and the manifesto that went with it was stunning in the lengths to which he wanted control over what I did or didn't do. He also wanted a floor plan of my home, an itinerary each week of S13's activities. When I traveled with S13, N/BPDx wanted updates from S13 so often I decided to just let his phone battery die down on the first leg of the trip.  

A parent with BPD projects their own unresolved inadequacy and fear of abandonment on the kids, and creates such an invalidating environment that the kids are punished for even remotely trying to individuate. This is why validation is so important. It's the magic antidote to parental alienation, although sometimes more serious interventions are needed like reunification therapists. Because your ex cannot tolerate being the inadequate abusive parent, she must project this onto you. To successfully do this, she will try to get the girls to side with her. In your situation, if you were to cancel the dance and cheerleading, ex would paint you as abusive, yet the girls would see that you were advocating for them.

The behaviors you're describing (control, constant contact) is why experts recommend parallel parenting, instead of coparenting, in high-conflict custody cases. Especially in the early adjustment period, and at a minimum the first year, to establish boundaries and make sure the message is clear: separate households, separate parenting.

With my son, when I created strong boundaries, he did experience a spike in alienating behavior from his dad. The problem is that S13 and I had a strong bond, I am the safe, stable parent, he feels validated with me, so N/BPDx's attempts to alienate and control were largely unsuccessful, although they still took an emotional and psychological toll.

Another thing that I noticed. When I stood up to N/BPDx, that gave S13 courage to start doing the same thing in his own life. He was not able to do this with N/BPDx, at least not directly (although in his mind, he was able to reject false beliefs his dad wanted him to believe). However, with friends, at school, in situations where he thinks something is not right, he is finally able to speak up. It takes time and a lot of thought, but he does it. He often asks me if it's hard for me, how do I do this, or do that -- I know he seems me asserting my boundaries and knows it's possible for him too.

Even though asserting boundaries with his dad made his life harder, it also made it better in ways that really count.

[Ripped Heart]

Many thanks Livednlearned, much of what you have written makes a lot of sense.

Like you, I already know that the more she tries to alienate d10, the more it's going to backfire as it already has many times before. It's why she went to the drastic level of cutting me out altogether, that and the fact that when anyone new enters her life, she cuts everything out from before. She did the same to her s18 and s15's dad too when i came on the scene. I advocated for him on a number of occasions but where I held him accountable was that when she cut him out, he refused to pay for his kids, she refused to work for 2 years and I was left holding the bill for their children as well as my own. I didn't mind because I accepted them as a package but felt what their father did in terms of holding contact to ransom financially was wrong. I've always supported my children financially, even when I was stopped from seeing them and I did resent it many times but at the end of the day, they are my responsibility too and I stuck by that.

My and d10 had a very strong bond and exgf knew that. She knew at the end of the r/s she couldn't hurt me any other way so she used d10. Again, as she once said, part of that was fear because she knew d10 would go with me so she tried to control that. It failed and it only took a couple of weeks for d10 to know that safety net was back in place for her. For the first year of being cut off, there was a lot of attempted alienation going on but why that failed is that she never bonded with d10. I was responsible for all the kids, the one who did everything with them, stuck up for them when they were in the right, punished them when they were in the wrong, bathed them, read bedtime stories, took them on outings and kept the balance. When d10 was young, if she was ill, it was an inconvenience to exgf and she would get annoyed, but I would sit with her through the night regardless of having work the next day. For the first 6 years of her life, everything was done by me so her alienation attempts when she never really had a bond there to begin with were never going to work. That's why d10 would go behind her mothers back to make contact as and when she could and when she did, I was always there.

A few years ago, I was away on the other side of the world when she had her School concert. She was a little sad because nobody was going to it and she asked if I could go. I was on the plane the very next day and came back just for her concert. For me, it was to show that no matter where I was or what I was doing, if she needed anything I was there. She got in a world of trouble from her mother because she asked me to be there. There was nothing legal to say I couldn't and the fact I turned up, really made her day. She talked tonight about the last night I took her out before being cut off, it was to a fireworks display and was just the 2 of us. She also talked about me turning up to her concert and I showed her I still had the programme from it. That is a bond that no amount of alienation will ever break.

It's what exgf doesn't get. It's not parent against parent, it's got nothing to do with me doing or saying anything about her. It has everything to do with what I do for my kids. If I can fly 4000 miles to be there for a 2 hour concert, she then asks herself why her mother couldn't walk 200m. Again, as with many cases, words don't match the actions in her mind and that's difference too.

Tonight we filled in an application because she wants to be on the school council. She brought it to mine because again, she knew I would help and she was struggling with what to write. That had everything to do with validation because the questions were around qualities, talents, interests etc... .When we started and I asked her what she felt her qualities and talents were, she said she didn't have any. The moment I started listing off what I thought, she flooded a page with what she thought then. In the end, we wrote out her application and used 2 sides of A4. She's had 4 years of being told she's useless and not having someone there to tell her otherwise but inside she knows she isn't and she wasn't ready to accept it. Again, that's not one upping the other parent, that's because of what I do with my kids. I think in some ways, that is similar to your experiences in terms of how your son rejected the false beliefs. I know with d10 she can be reluctant at first with things in case she hears the same thing on both sides but the moment she doesn't, that's when she really opens up and has the confidence to believe in herself.

Again though d4 is the concern at the moment. I know she is still young but already is developing that belief of self entitlement. I have to find a way to reduce that but at the same time keeping that confidence in her. For her though this is alien. In the last 4 years, I have seen her a couple of times (last year) but under the games exgf was playing, I was only known as d10's dad even though you could see the brain ticking away. Despite that, Christmas and Birthday cards were always signed daddy and I always sent cards that said daughter on them. She only found out the truth in January because exgf was ordered by the courts not to deceive the children. Worst part about that was d10 was also used in the pretence, she wasn't allowed to tell d4 the truth and the look of relief on her face when she no longer had to lie for her mother was immense.

I have d14 from a previous relationship to a non and we all have such a wonderful relationship where we both work for the interests of d14. Despite our r/s breaking down, we maintained a friendship. Difficult at first with things being raw on both sides and we did clash from time to time but things between us are great and as a result, we have a very stable and happy d14. At the very beginning we both had different ideas around parenting (given it was our first child) and that's where the clashes came from. However, it reached a point where we both realised that we had something to offer and that both approaches were positive as we were both looking out for the best interests of d14. How it works now is that we both support each other and if d14's mothers approach isn't working, she will call and ask if I can try something and vice versa.

I won't ever have that kind of relationship with d10 and d4's mother as much as I would like, because she views the world very differently. But it doesn't mean I can't continue to offer the girls a safe and secure environment and do my best by them. I wish things could be different and she didn't see me as the enemy because at the end of the day, it's not about me or her, it's about offering stability to the girls.

Another thing that made me smile is that exgf does very little with the girls. they get promised things but it never happens. I take them places, we do things together and that annoys exgf. However, in her world she feels it's upstaging her and slowly taking the girls away from her. So what she has started doing now is actually doing things with the girls and taking them places. Not that often but more than she has in the past 4 years. To me that's a victory for the girls because now they are starting to do things and that makes me happy to see.

[livednlearned]

It made me tear up reading your note, thinking about the immense longing and relief your D10 must feel to have you back in her life, and the story about her recognizing her strengths and talents. What all of us ever wanted! Someone who would bear witness to what makes us feel worthy and whole. 

I don't have two kids, so only have my experience being a sibling to try and make sense of what things might be like for D4 D10. It has to be hard to raise up the esteem of one child without doing it at the expense of the other. You will be D4's greatest teacher when it comes to the anti-entitlement life lessons. Helping her be self-aware of what she needs, how she is trying to get her needs met (especially when it is at someone else's expense) will probably be a long-term challenge, especially if she's the golden child. Have any of the books about BPD mothers been helpful understanding this dynamic and what could help? I believe my father is a golden child of a hermit/waif BPD mother, and he has a very thin fragile ego, and struggles with empathy. A whole world of emotions runs around and through him, and he is completely ignorant of how that emotional and psychological logic works. It's sad, really.