Trying to reconcile with BPD spouse

[turbo squash]

I'll give the cliff's notes version of the story of my wife and I.

We had a misunderstanding, I told her to leave, and so she did. (I didn't know nearly as much about BPD then as I do now and I realize that that was the worst possible thing I could say.)

We have now been separated for six weeks. She wants to get back together. I want to get back together. The real rub is that she is scared that I will tell her to leave again and she said that that hurt so incredibly badly that she could not go through it again.

She has already gotten back in therapy and on medication after a hiatus. The hiatus wasn't really intentional, our lives just got crazy. I have done a lot of reading, don't take her symptoms personally, and am much better equipped to do the things I need to do and not do the things I should not do. (I hardly knew anything about BPD before this separation and my actions definitely contributed to her feeling abandoned and running away.)

How do I get her to trust me when I say that I will never tell her to leave again? How do I get her to be willing to be vulnerable again?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[turbo squash]

I should also add that over the last week, we have spent time together on 7 different occasions and each time, it has been very positive. I think that she just has a very difficult time overcoming the fear of potential abandonment in the future.

[vortex of confusion]

It is good that the two of you have been having positive interactions with each other.

How long have you and your wife been married? Have you ever asked her to leave before this latest episode?

Have you had much chance to read through the lessons?

One thing about trust is that it doesn't take much too loose but takes a lot to get back. Telling somebody to leave over a misunderstanding is kind of a big deal. If you have a misunderstanding with her in the future, how do you plan on handling it differently? It is easy to say that you will never do something again. It is a little more difficult to follow through, especially when emotions are high and not thinking straight. Please don't take me saying that as judgment. I am saying it because I have been there. I have told myself that I would never do something again only to find myself doing it again because I overestimated my own abilities. I am human. I am going to mess up. And, sometimes, I find myself doing things again because I wasn't honest with myself about how much I was hurt or bothered by the things that my husband did.

You can't sweep your stuff under the rug and hope it goes away. Both of you want to get back together. That is awesome. Is there some kind of plan in place that will help the two of you from repeating this stuff again?

[turbo squash]

We have been married for a little over 2.5 years. I have never asked her to leave before. I have read through most of the lessons.

I agree that trust is very hard to get back once it is lost. The reason why I told her to leave is because I had been hearing about how a new co-worker was so much fun, he was cute, and that he reminded her a lot of me when we first started dating. She had been sharing stories with me about him for a few weeks before she calls me on her way home from being with him until 11PM on a Monday night. I was a little tipsy and I told her to leave. The next day I realized that they had been texting and talking on the phone A LOT for the previous week... .even until 2AM or  3AM.

At the very least it was emotional, she admits that, and even if it was more than that, it doesn't matter because the hurt is still there.

We tried to get back together 2 weeks into the separation. We stay together for a few days and then I see that she was still talking to this guy that she said she would stop talking to. I don't tell her to leave, and I move out.

I realize that I have blame in this. I jumped to conclusions and even though they were right, I did the worst thing I could by telling her to leave.

That is the worst part about it all. She said that she just wants me to date other people, go to therapy, and enjoy my life and maybe she will be able to fix herself in time and we will be able to get back together... .maybe not. I realize that this could just be her way of trying to gently let me go bit by bit, but part of me also realizes that she isn't very severe BPD and she could be genuinely trying to get better so that she can be with me again.

[vortex of confusion]

We tried to get back together 2 weeks into the separation. We stay together for a few days and then I see that she was still talking to this guy that she said she would stop talking to. I don't tell her to leave, and I move out.

Hmmm. . .do you think it would be helpful to set a boundary around this? For example, you won't consider moving back in with her unless she limits her contact with this guy to work only.

I can understand why you would tell her to leave if she is talking up this other guy. My husband and I experimented with an open relationship for a while. It felt like a kick in the gut every time my husband would meet somebody online and go on and on about how great she was and how he felt a real connection, blah, blah, blah. I talked to other guys and even had one guy that I spent time with. I tried so hard to keep things respectful and NOT tell my husband how great the other guy was. I tried to continually tell my husband how great I thought he was in some areas. The pain of seeing him get so excited over these other women is impossible to describe. I would find myself thinking things like, "Gosh, I wish he would get that excited over me!"

I realize that I have blame in this. I jumped to conclusions and even though they were right, I did the worst thing I could by telling her to leave.

First off, I question the notion that you jumped to conclusions. If a person's spouse is texting with another person and staying out that late with them, it seems natural to jump to those kinds of conclusions, especially if it is a member of the opposite sex. It sounds like you were following your gut instincts.

I agree that telling her to leave was probably not a good move. However, in situations like that, it is difficult to tell what the "right" move is. Could you have handled things differently? Absolutely. Don't beat yourself up over it.

That is the worst part about it all. She said that she just wants me to date other people, go to therapy, and enjoy my life and maybe she will be able to fix herself in time and we will be able to get back together... .maybe not. I realize that this could just be her way of trying to gently let me go bit by bit, but part of me also realizes that she isn't very severe BPD and she could be genuinely trying to get better so that she can be with me again.

UGH! That seems like such a cop out. At least that is how I felt when my husband and I agreed to an open marriage. I had the thought, "Oh, you want to put in effort with new relationships so that you don't have to put in the effort to be with me." I did talk to other guys. I won't lie. I enjoyed the attention. What I didn't enjoy is that it was for all of the wrong reasons.

If you want to stay with her, don't kid yourself into thinking that this is about her getting better. If she truly wanted to get better, she would be seeking counseling and would stop talking to this other guy. If she really wants to be with you, I think she would be doing things other than telling you to date other people. When my husband decided that he wanted to work on himself, he stopped talking to other women. He sought counseling and he has made some effort to try connect with me. His efforts kind of suck in my opinion. I recognize that his efforts suck because he lacks a lot of basic skills that he should have learned as a kid. I am trying to be patient with him because he is trying.

If you want to stay, you need to figure out how long you are willing to wait and what you are willing to accept while waiting. Focus on you and your values and what you want and go from there.

[babyducks]

Whoa turbo squash,  I happen to remember your initial posts here and the very detailed description you gave at the time.    Misunderstanding is not the word I would use to describe things.

I would suggest you slow down.  Really slow down.    There is no time frame for healing issues of these types.

And I would also suggest you make an effort to gain clarity about what a relationship with your wife will look like in terms of trust.    From here it looks like there were breaches of trust on both sides of the relationship.

[turbo squash]

UGH! That seems like such a cop out. At least that is how I felt when my husband and I agreed to an open marriage. I had the thought, "Oh, you want to put in effort with new relationships so that you don't have to put in the effort to be with me."

If you want to stay with her, don't kid yourself into thinking that this is about her getting better. If she truly wanted to get better, she would be seeking counseling and would stop talking to this other guy. If she really wants to be with you, I think she would be doing things other than telling you to date other people. When my husband decided that he wanted to work on himself, he stopped talking to other women. He sought counseling and he has made some effort to try connect with me.

She is bisexual and we have talked about a threesome (since being separated) or how we might open things up. I wouldn't say that we were talking about a completely open marriage, but definitely something that was a lot more open than the stereotypical view of marriage.

She says that it is not fair to me for her to ask me to wait while she works on herself... .but like you said, I can not help but feel like if she was really serious about getting back together with me, she would stop the contact with this person outside of work. She said that she is back in therapy and taking medication. I have noticed a big improvement in her behavior since she claims medication and therapy have started... .but it still comes back to the fact that she is still talking to this person. She could just be fooling me, but I don't think she wants a romantic relationship with this guy. However, the fact that she is sharing the majority of her thoughts and feelings with another instead of me is still something that I do not like at all.  

I understand what BPD entails. I understand that crap like this is bound to happen when somebody doesn't stay in therapy. The thing I am confused about is whether or not her not taking more aggressive action to get back together with me is BPD or her way of trying to let me down slowly.

She has been a lot nicer to me. She has been listening to what I have to say and admitting fault... .but she is also still talking to this guy. Should I just be cutting my losses?

babyducks, I try to be a nice guy and put things in the best possible light. I am trying to slow down and not rush to make any decision. I have started seeing a therapist too.

[formflier]

Focus on you and your values and what you want and go from there.

This is job number 1.  Are you ok with your wife having  a r/s with another guy like she was/is having with this work coworker?

What if she has them... but you don't talk about it? 

Note:  Not saying either way is right or wrong... .just that this is a BIG deal... .

Once you can let us know which way you want to go with this... .what YOU are ok with... .we can help you sort through boundary issues that you need to think about.

FF

[turbo squash]

This is job number 1.  Are you ok with your wife having  a r/s with another guy like she was/is having with this work coworker?

What if she has them... but you don't talk about it? 

A threesome? I could handle. Her making out with a random girl in a club to scratch the itch? I could handle. Emotional and/or physical relationship with a guy? I am not okay with that.

[formflier]

Emotional and/or physical relationship with a guy? I am not okay with that.

OK... .well... .then you need to create a boundary around that.

These are your values... .and it is your job to protect them... .regardless of whether your wife is ok with it.

So... .how is this going to look? 

You seem to have made your choice about your values... .now it is up to your wife to make a choice about hers.

FF

[turbo squash]

You seem to have made your choice about your values... .now it is up to your wife to make a choice about hers.

FF

So you would just lay it out to her and tell her to get over it or get under it?

[formflier]

 

Yes... .BUT... .wait a few days.  The way this happens matters.

Look up SET and DEARMAN in lessons... .study... .come back and ask questions.

In essence... .you are drawing a line in the sand... .but you want to do it in the best way possible.

It should not seem like a challenge to her...

FF

[vortex of confusion]

I would like to add to what formflier said and challenge you to do some more thinking before approaching your wife.

I think it is good that you know that you are not okay with her doing stuff with other guys. Before drawing the line in the sand, I would think long and hard about it.

You mentioned that you discussed a slightly open scenario. What did that entail? If you have an itch, do you get to scratch it with another woman? Do you have any desire to date other women? If you are okay with her scratching her itches with other females, is there a chance that you may come to resent that?

I am not trying to pass judgment. I am posing questions to you based on my own personal experiences. Even if she is only seeing other women, there needs to be communication and ground rules to protect yourself and the relationship.

[babyducks]

Hi turbo,

there has been some good stuff already said in this thread, some good ideas for you to turn over and discuss with trusted friends and supporters. 

I wanted to go in a slightly different tack.   To throw out some more thoughts for you to consider.

How do I get her to trust me when I say that I will never tell her to leave again? How do I get her to be willing to be vulnerable again?

This is what caught my attention as I first read through this thread.  I understand you are likely typing fast, trying to capture a lot of complex thoughts in tiny white box on a screen but I want to raise a tiny  here.   pwBPD, as you likely know from your reading, are not adept at self soothing.   They have maladaptive coping traits of making others, normally their SO, responsible for their emotions. You don't get her to be willing to be vulnerable again.   It's not up to you to mitigate her emotions.   It's her job to identify her emotions and coping strategies to deal with them.   

You said you read the lessons.   So I am sure you found FOG in there.  Fear, Obligation and Guilt.   Your actions were what they were.   They were frankly, pretty dang normal.   Don't absorb guilt for being human.  Don't absorb guilt for reacting to her behaviors.

The real rub is that she is scared that I will tell her to leave again and she said that that hurt so incredibly badly that she could not go through it again.

Yes I am sure she is very scared and terribly hurt.   That is also a pretty normal emotion.  You can validate it but I would strongly suggest you NOT try and fix it.   

V of C was spot on.   Focus on you, your emotions and your values, what you want, what is important to you.

. The thing I am confused about is whether or not her not taking more aggressive action to get back together with me is BPD or her way of trying to let me down slowly.

I think it is rather unlikely that she is trying to let you down slowly.  That's not normally how pwBPD work.   pwBPD have trouble with object consistency so out of sight is literally out of mind.   And feelings=fact, if she is feeling conflicted or upset by past events she will look soothe those emotions externally.   

I believe V of C and FF have covered the physical intimacy stuff really well, still I think there are many more nuances that you might want to turn over as you move through this.   I hope you come back and post often.   Writing has a way of clarifying our thoughts and validating our own emotions.

'ducks

[turbo squash]

Thank you formflier. That is very helpful.

You mentioned that you discussed a slightly open scenario. What did that entail? If you have an itch, do you get to scratch it with another woman? Do you have any desire to date other women? If you are okay with her scratching her itches with other females, is there a chance that you may come to resent that?

Mainly, she wanted to be free to makeout with another random girl on occasion, but she did not want to have any kind of relationship with them because she said that girls are too needy. We also talked about a threesome. I don't really have a desire to date other women, and even if I did, because of the way I like to treat my woman, I could not afford it. She doesn't seem to be opposed to be dating other people though.

I have wondered about whether or not I would come to resent her itch scratching. I'm just not sure at the moment. I was raised in a very religious household. Although I am not that way anymore, it still has lingering effects on me.

Thank you babyducks. I think that I spent many hours looking for a solution of what to do to just stop the separation, but I did not realize that I should not try to fix her fear abandonment.

How would you all suggest I approach my marriage right now? We are separated, but whenever we have spent time together in person, it has been wonderful. Some BPD traits are still evident, but it appears her therapy is working and she is working on herself a lot. We often have fun conversations via texting and often express feelings. We talk about wanting to be together, but she is still scared. What should I be doing through all of this?

[formflier]

  What should I be doing through all of this?

Do you work with a T? 

I'm not suggesting anything is wrong with you... .I am suggesting (very strongly)... .that you take this time to sort out your values. 

No judgment here... .my values don't matter... .when you are sorting out your values.  If you come down on the side of open r/s... .you need to be able to clearly explain what that means... .so you can clearly establish boundaries around your values.  Then... .it will be up to your wife to figure out if she fits or has a home inside those boundaries.

Why is this important?  You are the "non"... .and should be the one that is able to stay closer to the baseline in the r/s... .while the pwBPD swings from one side to the other (in this case... .wants open... .wants closed... .and of course expects you to be onboard)

If both people are swinging (yeah... .I went there... .) from side to side... .and then get out of sync... .where you are saying open and she is saying closed r/s... .well... .that is going to be a mess.

I ask about a T... because sorting out those values is big work... .

Thoughts?

FF

[turbo squash]

Do you work with a T?  

I'm not suggesting anything is wrong with you... .I am suggesting (very strongly)... .that you take this time to sort out your values.  

I agree completely.

I just started seeing a therapist yesterday. Planning on meeting weekly until I feel like I have my head on straight again. I agree that I need to identify my values, set my boundaries, and figure out whether or not she will fit within those. If she won't fit within my boundaries, continuing a relationship with her would only lead to more pain.

What about interactions with her? NC seems like a way for the relationship to decay and fade away. I have talked to an attorney, but I started that. She hasn't spoken to an attorney or filed for divorce. She says she wants to work things out, but that she can only be friends for now.

[MaroonLiquid]

She says she wants to work things out... .

When my wife went through her major dysregulation a year ago, she said the same thing to my kids and I (not sure what she was telling her kids) and yet to still see her make "healthy" strides towards that (T, P, etc).  She is still wanting to play "games" and push/pull.  I'm getting more and more away from that and have an unspoken boundary for only healthy communication.  If she is unkind or ugly, I cut it off.  Not trying to scare you.  That may be what she wants (not saying my wife doesn't either), but be aware that what they say now can change.  They are bound by their unhealthiness until they choose to want healthiness.

[vortex of confusion]

What about interactions with her? NC seems like a way for the relationship to decay and fade away. I have talked to an attorney, but I started that. She hasn't spoken to an attorney or filed for divorce. She says she wants to work things out, but that she can only be friends for now.

I would continue to interact with her as long as the interactions are positive and healthy.

If she gets ugly with you, step away from the conversation.

Before you can make anything better, you have to figure out how to stop making it worse. Taking a time out and being friends is sometimes a good way to stop making it worse. I think I have seen it referred to as a therapeutic separation.

Earlier up in the thread, you mentioned that she wants to work things out but that she seems scared. I get the impression that you are a little leery as well. Is there a way to use both of your hesitancy as something to build a bridge between the two of you? Can you validate her fears rather than try to reassure her that you aren't going to ask her to leave again?

[turbo squash]

When my wife went through her major dysregulation a year ago, she said the same thing to my kids and I (not sure what she was telling her kids) and yet to still see her make "healthy" strides towards that (T, P, etc).  

Thank you for sharing. That is a valid point that you bring up.

She claims to be in therapy and she does seem to be doing better since she claims to have started therapy. She also said that she is starting medication again. Additionally, she was in therapy for several years before we met for BPD. I only recently found out that she was scared to go back to a therapist for a while because the one that she had seen for several years took a job out of state and moved away.

Vortex, I am a little scared as well. A lot of things piled up without me noticing and the idea of that happening again while knowing how she handled it this time is worrisome.

Using our mutual fears as a way of connecting is a fantastic idea. Thank you for that. I think that that would help and I am going to try to implement that.  

[shatra]

Hi

You wrote

She said that she just wants me to date other people, go to therapy, and enjoy my life and maybe she will be able to fix herself in time and we will be able to get back together... .maybe not.

------Why is she saying maybe and maybe not---is she unsure?

------Why does she want you to date other people? There may be a spoken reason, but an unspoken reason could be a dare/bluff, to test you, or maybe it's the push part of the push-pull?

Shatra

[turbo squash]

Hi

You wrote

She said that she just wants me to date other people, go to therapy, and enjoy my life and maybe she will be able to fix herself in time and we will be able to get back together... .maybe not.

------Why is she saying maybe and maybe not---is she unsure?

------Why does she want you to date other people? There may be a spoken reason, but an unspoken reason could be a dare/bluff, to test you, or maybe it's the push part of the push-pull?

Shatra

I think it is a combination of push/pull and her guilt.

One thing that has always been common throughout our marriage is that she will feel extremely guilty if she ever thinks that she is asking too much of me. If she feels that way or if I bring up something that I did for her, she will feel guilty.

I believe the root of her telling me to (not seriously) date other people is to help her feel better about herself and what she is having to do right now before she can be with me again.

I believe that she does want to be with me. We spent time together last night and she opened up emotionally to me. I held her for a little while, and we even kissed a few times. I can tell that she is in turmoil about it though and that right now, physical affection with me causes her anxiety because she cannot stop thinking about me potentially telling her to leave again.

We have spent time together on about 8 different occasions over the last 10 days. Each time it has been very positive, but not so overwhelmingly positive that it makes me think she is doing a charm. I think she is sincere about wanting to be with me but that her mind is in an all out war over whether or not the reward is worth the potential pain.

[formflier]

How do you know she feels guilt? 

How do you go about validating that?

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

Hi

You wrote

She said that she just wants me to date other people, go to therapy, and enjoy my life and maybe she will be able to fix herself in time and we will be able to get back together... .maybe not.

------Why is she saying maybe and maybe not---is she unsure?

------Why does she want you to date other people? There may be a spoken reason, but an unspoken reason could be a dare/bluff, to test you, or maybe it's the push part of the push-pull?

Shatra

Honestly, there is a very big "temptation" in pwBPD to have their cake and eat it too that goes along with the push/pull.  My wife ,at times in the past year, wants all the benefits of a marriage with none of the responsibility of being a wife.  In my wife's case, she hasn't had other relationships, so I am speaking from a different angle here.  My point is, they can sound so sweet and caring and "thinking of us" (almost flattering) that they want us to "enjoy our life" when that's not what they want.  It's self sabotage on their part and allows their victimhood mentality to remain.  She may or may not "fix" herself and I think if you do date, it will be used against you and gives her the "open door" to have other momentary "fulfilling" relationships.  When that doesn't work out, she will come back to you and re-cycle.  I hope this makes sense.  Maybe I'm off base, I don't know.  

[turbo squash]

How do you know she feels guilt? 

How do you go about validating that?

FF

I suppose I am taking her word for it. A few times over the last 10 days or so, we have started kissing and she pulled away trembling because of how scared and guilty she felt. Knowing how high of a libido she has always had, it appears to me that she is sincere. If she wanted to just suck me back in, she would not have to try very hard... .but she doesn't, which makes me think that she is sincere.

I tell her that I am aware of how people with her disorder fear abandonment and that I understand why she is afraid of it. I told her that I was afraid too.

Honestly, there is a very big "temptation" in pwBPD to have their cake and eat it too that goes along with the push/pull.  My wife ,at times in the past year, wants all the benefits of a marriage with none of the responsibility of being a wife.

I have wondered that. I have wondered if maybe I am just being used. I know that she has a fear of losing the relationship... .as most all pwBPD do.

In spite of all the progress made recently, we are still steadily moving towards divorce. She is in no hurry by any means, but she hasn't said that she wants me to call the attorney (we are only using one) and stop everything.

The thing that makes me think she is sincere is the fact that as I have been doing more nice things and we have been spending time together recently, she has been steadily offering to give me more and more in the divorce.

When she was in the middle of her episode at the start of our separation, she was constantly threatening to not give me anything. We have not been married long enough for me to have a right to anything and so she could screw me over if she wanted to. However, as she calmed down, we agreed on a deal that was generous to me and have stuck to that deal for the last several weeks.

Over the last 10 days or so as we have been spending time together again, she has been periodically agreeing to be more and more generous. Last night, because I helped her with something, she said that she would give me $10,000 - $20,000 more in the divorce. I did not ask for it, she just offered it. That makes me think that she is being sincere, because if BPD was in control, she would just be taking.

Maybe I am just being deluded though. If I am wrong, tell me.

[vortex of confusion]

I tell her that I am aware of how people with her disorder fear abandonment and that I understand why she is afraid of it. I told her that I was afraid too.

I really wanted to pull this out and suggest that maybe this isn't such a good approach. It sounds a bit dismissive as though her fears are the result of the disorder rather than a result of the fact that she and the person that she is married to are having problems. I think that most people in the situation the two of you are in would be afraid, leery, confused, unsure.

Perhaps a better way to bring this up would be something along the lines of, "I know that you are afraid. So am I." Don't pretend to understand her fear or assign it to her disorder.

I am not trying to pick on you. I am pointing this out to help you tweak your communication. If you want to stay, it is little stuff like this that makes a difference.

In spite of all the progress made recently, we are still steadily moving towards divorce. She is in no hurry by any means, but she hasn't said that she wants me to call the attorney (we are only using one) and stop everything.

Why is this her decision and her decision alone? Do YOU want to call the attorney and stop things or slow things down? You have the power to do that as well.

Over the last 10 days or so as we have been spending time together again, she has been periodically agreeing to be more and more generous. Last night, because I helped her with something, she said that she would give me $10,000 - $20,000 more in the divorce. I did not ask for it, she just offered it. That makes me think that she is being sincere, because if BPD was in control, she would just be taking.

The papers are not signed. Nothing is set in stone yet. Whether or not you actually get anything remains to be seen. It is possible that she will go back  and forth on what she will or won't give you in the divorce. Until the papers have been signed and an agreement has been reached, it is all just talk. It is easy to say generous things. Actually carrying them out is a whole other story.

[formflier]

I suppose I am taking her word for it. A few times over the last 10 days or so, we have started kissing and she pulled away trembling because of how scared and guilty she felt.

OK... .this is a place to be crystal clear.

Did she say she felt guilty?

Did you ask and she responded... .or did she just say?

Communication flow is difficult for pwBPD... .and for us to give proper advice... .we need a clear picture... .no assumptions.

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

I have wondered that. I have wondered if maybe I am just being used. I know that she has a fear of losing the relationship... .as most all pwBPD do.

i truly think it has more to do with the fact that they don't know another way to cope.  They are creatures of habit, just like everyone else, just more so.

[formflier]

It sounds a bit dismissive as though her fears are the result of the disorder rather than a result of the fact that she and the person that she is married to are having problems.  

Hey... .please pay attention to what VOC is bringing up here... .

It is critical that you understand the "rules" about BPD... .but just as critical is that you LISTEN to a female point of view on how communication may be received... .

I noticed this... .and sort of took it as you "patting her on the head"... .about her BPD and assuring her it is ok.

Also... I could see someone saying they aren't like they others... .they are unique... .not lumped into a group.

Thoughts?  What was your intention by saying this... .?  (I'm guessing you were trying to be comforting... )

FF

[turbo squash]

I tell her that I am aware of how people with her disorder fear abandonment and that I understand why she is afraid of it. I told her that I was afraid too.

I really wanted to pull this out and suggest that maybe this isn't such a good approach. It sounds a bit dismissive as though her fears are the result of the disorder rather than a result of the fact that she and the person that she is married to are having problems. I think that most people in the situation the two of you are in would be afraid, leery, confused, unsure.

I used that last night and it seemed to have a positive effect. She seemed to receive it well and she reached out and held my hand after I said it. I can understand how the way I typed it might have looked one way, but when I delivered it, I was looking in her eyes and telling her that I can understand why she is scared because I am too.

Thank you for the input though. I appreciate it.

Why is this her decision and her decision alone? Do YOU want to call the attorney and stop things or slow things down? You have the power to do that as well.

The papers are not signed. Nothing is set in stone yet. Whether or not you actually get anything remains to be seen.

That is the difficulty of the situation. I won't get in to the details of it all, but suffice it to say, if our marriage ended today, I would be -$70,000 compared to where I was at the start of our marriage. I want to slow things down, but if do and she flies off the handle again, I could be risking the payout that she is agreeing to right now. Our current agreement would put about $170,000 in my pocket.

While moving forward is NOT what I want, I'm worried that if I don't, I could be throwing away an enormous pile of money and still end up divorced anyways. We can't create any sort of agreement unless things move forward in the legal system to some extent. They can move forward and an agreement can be signed that is valid and enforceable without us getting divorced, but if we don't move forward somewhat, I won't have any kind of guarantee.

OK... .this is a place to be crystal clear.

Did she say she felt guilty?

Did you ask and she responded... .or did she just say?

Communication flow is difficult for pwBPD... .and for us to give proper advice... .we need a clear picture... .no assumptions.

I never asked her directly if she felt guilty. I talked about waiting on her while she gets her BPD under control and she said that she feels too guilty to ask me to do that.

Originally, she only wanted a legal separation. She was willing to give me all of that money as part of the agreement. Since that point, I made some mistakes, we had a big argument, and she said that she wanted divorce. Even though things have improved drastically since then and she has said that she isn't sure anymore if she wants divorce, she still has not said anything like: "Lets slow everything down. I want to work on us." Until she decides to do that, I feel like for my own sanity, I should just proceed forward because even though she appears to want to get back together, I don't have any guarantee that we will and thus, I need to work on protecting my future until she makes up her mind.

She has said lots of things as pwBPD do. The thing that she does keep coming back to is that she loves me and wants to be with me but can't overcome the fear of me potentially telling her to leave again.

[formflier]

While moving forward is NOT what I want, 

Hey... .no rush for a clear answer... .but... .in order to have any "chance" reconciling with a pwBPD... .in the current state that you are in... .we need to get you good and solid on what you want... .what you are willing to put time, energy, love, sweat and money into... .

It's not going to be easy... .and there is no guarantee.

There is no guarantee that your wife will actually sign divorce papers either.

It is common for pwBPD to use divorce as a "tool" or "tactic"... .at least it seems that way.

No judgement here... .on which way you choose... .and yes you can change your mind later... .but... .YOU need a clear answer about what you are going for... .

FF

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[turbo squash]

Hey... .no rush for a clear answer... .but... .in order to have any "chance" reconciling with a pwBPD... .in the current state that you are in... .we need to get you good and solid on what you want... .what you are willing to put time, energy, love, sweat and money into... .

Up until this separation, we might have been apart for two or three nights during the 2.5 years that we have been married. While I'm not saying that that is healthy or the way things should be, all I am trying to say is that I'm not okay with long separations like this because there is too much room for misunderstandings and worry to grow.

I am not okay with her just disappearing and shutting me out/not talking to me or opening up to others while she isn't talking to me. Again, this is something new and it has never happened until a week or two before our separation.

I am not okay with non-stop anger. She has had an occasional night where she would be angry, but during the first three weeks of our separation, she was angry virtually every time we talked... .for three entire weeks. This has never happened before the separation. I'm not okay with that.

I am not okay with affairs. Regardless of whether her inappropriate relationship was physical, emotional, or both, I can forgive that one time only.

I am not okay with her being unwilling to compromise to accommodate my wants and needs. She pressured me into doing IVF this summer even though she knew I felt like I needed to wait another six months. I should not have caved, but I did, and it became a major point of contention in our relationship.

I am not okay with doing this push/pull limbo indefinitely while we are separated. I can deal with a little hot and cold while we are sleeping in the same bed every night, but not while we have been separated for almost 7 weeks. I don't know how much longer I can put up with the push/pull honestly.

Part of me realizes that since she is in therapy and has been in therapy before, this might be the only MAJOR hiccup in our marriage. After a bunch of therapy, this sort of insanity could be forever behind us. I don't think that I can wait too terribly long though. There are a lot of things that are important to me that have gone on the back burner while I'm trying to pull this back together. I am getting ready to enter my senior year of electrical engineering school too and so I won't have much energy at all to devote towards this 5 weeks from now. (Long story about why I am still in school, but I am 25 now. She is 26.)

I don't mind cooking meals, doing laundry, and helping out more around the house. I don't mind taking care of bills and making sure that the house keeps going. I don't mind her needing to just shut herself up in her room and be alone. I don't mind her wanting me to spend a lot of time with her.

Is this the sort of thing you are looking for?

I don't think that her BPD is nearly as severe as the BPD of many others that I have read about. She is a hard worker and very accomplished. She did well in school and is excelling at her current job and is about to get her third promotion in less than a year.

I have this hope that we can hit therapy really hard and between that, my informed helpful support, and my patience, a few years from now, we will have a happy mostly normal life.

[formflier]

[

Is this the sort of thing you are looking for?

We're getting there.

What does "not ok" mean?  Will you divorce over that issue?  How many times can she do it before divorce? 

But... .basic question.

Your wife says she wants a divorce.

You seem to be waffling. (Am I correct)

FF

[turbo squash]

We're getting there.

What does "not ok" mean?  Will you divorce over that issue?  How many times can she do it before divorce? 

But... .basic question.

Your wife says she wants a divorce.

You seem to be waffling. (Am I correct)

That is an answer I do not know. How many times should I put up with behavior that I do not like? How many times is too many?

She has only said the words, "I want a divorce" one time. One other time she has said that we are through and another she said yes after I asked her, ":)o you want a divorce?" All of this has only happened over the last 7 weeks during our separation. She has said that the only thing she has consistently been through all of this is really confused.

I probably am waffling. Last night we had a good normal time and kissed. We were supposed to meet again tonight, but she admitted today that she is scared. She said that she wants space. I asked her if she realized feeling scared and running away is part of the disorder. She said that she did but that she is making baby steps. We made plans for Sunday and to try and give her her space, I agreed to NC until Sunday morning. I made a point of telling her that I love her when I agreed to go NC.

I recognize that this is obviously push/pull. The last time we had a kiss like we did last night was before the separation almost 7 weeks ago. Now the fact that she wants distance for a few days makes it really obvious that I am hitting the push. The fact that we kissed last night (over the last 10 days she has been gradually making herself a little more vulnerable each time we meet) and that she recognizes that her fear and running away is part of the disorder gives me hope.

However, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the future. I am getting ready to hit an incredibly intense 8 months of education. I will have virtually no time to work on this a month from now. I may have some time on the weekends, but it won't be a lot and it will only be on the weekends.

I fear that if things haven't improved enough to where we can start living together again within the next month, it will ultimately mean the end of the marriage.

[formflier]

 

My advice to you... .stop counting the number of times she threatens divorce or "through".

Work on a consistent response... .

My wife has certainly threatened over 50 times... .most likely a lot more.

One they stop getting a reaction from doing it... .it lessens out.

FF

[vortex of confusion]

One they stop getting a reaction from doing it... .it lessens out.

Exactly! My husband and I did the back and forth push/pull thing for a while over the idea of divorce. The last time he did it, I didn't react and said rather of matter of factly, "Okay. Let's do this. What is it going to take to make it happen?" I said it like I was talking about the sky being blue. Very matter of fact. No reaction. When he tried the whole, "Oh, I can see you have been thinking about this for a while." I responded with the same level of steadiness, "Nope, not really. I am not going to play this game with you. I am taking you seriously and trying to figure out how to make it happen." I don't think he has threatened it since.

[babyducks]

Hi turbo.

you are doing some great work digging into to all of this.  as you can tell marriage is complicated, marriage under stress is more complicated, marriage under stress with a spouse suffering emotional dsyregulation is complication cubed.

I can see where the upcoming academic year would be looming large, that is a huge and daunting workload. 

However, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the future. I am getting ready to hit an incredibly intense 8 months of education. I will have virtually no time to work on this a month from now. I may have some time on the weekends, but it won't be a lot and it will only be on the weekends.

I fear that if things haven't improved enough to where we can start living together again within the next month, it will ultimately mean the end of the marriage.

This is a cut and paste from the link of the right hand side of the screen under what does it take to be in a relationship with a borderline

Strength: It takes a great deal of strength and emotional stability to be in a BP relationship and not be emotionally injured by it.  A person in a weak emotional state, who feels wounded/abused, or depressed is likely to be consumed by the relationship, confused by the intense rages and idealization, and finding their self worth in decline.  If you chose this path, you've got to be very strong and very balanced.

Realistic Expectations: A person with BPD is emotionally underdeveloped and does not have "adult" emotional skills - especially in times of stress.  If you are in this type of relationship it is important to have realistic expectations for what the relationship can be in terms of consistent respect, trust and support, honesty and accountability, and in terms of negotiation and fairness, or expectations of non-threatening behavior.  It is important to accept the relationship behavior for what it is - not hope the person will permanently return to the idealization phase, not accept the external excuses for the bad behavior, and not hope that changing your behavior to heal someone else

I want to focus on realistic expectations and practical reality for a minute.   Do you know why they picked the word borderline?  That word comes from the psychiatrists observation that people who suffer from this disorder are on the border of psychosis.   It is a serious mental illness.

Here is my reality.   My partner has graduated from therapy.   After nine years.   Including 2 years of DBT.  In that time she disassociated so badly that frankly she was psychotic for a couple days.   She is religious about meds.  Takes them faithfully.  And they have helped.  But years of meds and their side effects have played havoc with her kidneys.    We are careful about caffeine, alcohol and sweets.   Anything that may effect mood.   We plan on exercise and regular sleep.  No late nights.   We manage stress.  This year so far, she has dsyregulated three times, twice in February while we traveling and once in April. Each time she recovered in a day or so.  Oh and traveling is stressful for my partner so she is more likely to have some type of episode while we are away from home so we don't travel much.   I keep a chunk of my finances separate as my partner is impulsive with her spending.  If we go somewhere I drive because she is the most reckless driver you would ever hope to see.   She will likely be under some type of care and medication for the rest of her life, and while she doesn't require active therapy right now, the fault lines and the fragility in her personality are very clear to see if anyone knows where to look.   

We are considered a success story.  Since I have been coming here, consistently, things have gotten much better for us.  It has required work on both of our parts.   It has also required sacrifice on my part.   Some of my cherished dreams have been modified to accommodate what her illness could tolerate.   

I suspect that when your wife says she is confused she is being completely truthful.   My experience was my partner once hit a period of emotional dsyregulation that was very intense, I inadvertently did things that made it worse and it took about 6 months for her to return to baseline.  pwBPD have a very slow return to baseline.

Coming here and learning about pwBPD helps us.   We can't fix, cure or control this disorder.   We can do things that make the relationship better and more stable by not feeding into the chaos it sometimes creates.  And we can learn to not take it personally.   

There is a lot more to this disorder than a fear of abandonment.   It's not a binary subset of fear of abandonment=reassure=problem solved.  I don't mean that to sound harsh.   More to be truthful.

I have a very vivid memory of my partner slipping into a BPD rage and I don't know why.   I was engrossed in what ever I was doing and quite likely I was ignoring her.   I was on the sofa in the living room and she began to rage and couldn't get the brakes on.   I couldn't get out of the living room, she was between the sofa and the door.   She started to rage.   I ended up curled up in a fetal position on the sofa with my arms wrapped around my head while she screamed hysterically at me "you have to stop hurting me like this" at the top of her lungs.   I've no idea what she was referring to.  I still have nightmares about that one.

And before you say my wife is high functioning she would never do that,  my partner is considered high functioning also.

It's a serious mental illness. 

And to V of C's point earlier

I really wanted to pull this out and suggest that maybe this isn't such a good approach. It sounds a bit dismissive as though her fears are the result of the disorder rather than a result of the fact that she and the person that she is married to are having problems

I wouldn't want to be reminded that I have a disorder all the time.   I would find it dismissive and frankly more than a little annoying.   Also since it is a disorder that has significant issues around blame/shame/guilt raising the disorder can play into fueling the guilt.

my two cents.

'ducks

[formflier]

   Some of my cherished dreams have been modified to accommodate what her illness could tolerate.   

Let me expand on this... .from my point of view.

having a pwBPD in a relationship will require you to prioritize.  I've set aside some dreams of mine as well. 

The dreams I have held onto... .I protect firmly with boundaries that I control... .

One thing that helped me was thinking about an issue... and asking myself... .am I willing to fight for that... .

If the answer is no... then usually best to stop putting any energy into that... .and redirect that energy somewhere more useful.

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

   Some of my cherished dreams have been modified to accommodate what her illness could tolerate.   

Let me expand on this... .from my point of view.

having a pwBPD in a relationship will require you to prioritize.  I've set aside some dreams of mine as well. 

The dreams I have held onto... .I protect firmly with boundaries that I control... .

One thing that helped me was thinking about an issue... and asking myself... .am I willing to fight for that... .

If the answer is no... then usually best to stop putting any energy into that... .and redirect that energy somewhere more useful.

FF

This is excellent advice.  I am working on this constantly.  I grew up where you "fought" for everything".  My FOO is still that way and it drives me nuts.

[turbo squash]

My advice to you... .stop counting the number of times she threatens divorce or "through".

Work on a consistent response... .

This is a good idea. The last time that she said she wanted a divorce, I moved all my stuff out that day and went back to stay with my parents. She has not threatened it in the 3-4 weeks since then. I think that that sort of goes along the lines of what VOC was saying too... .to take their words at face value and just say, "Okay, let's do this."

Not reacting has been very helpful here recently. Yesterday, I wanted to establish a rule about our separation. She reacted, got agitated, and didn't want to follow this rule. I stood my ground, told her I loved her, and told her what it would mean to me if that boundary was not respected. She said that this would be dangerous for her but that she would do it anyways and that I should not worry about her. Success! Boundary established! I'm sure it will continue taking work to maintain and really get it entrenched, but I feel like the worst part of establishing that boundary is over.

I want to focus on realistic expectations and practical reality for a minute.   Do you know why they picked the word borderline?  That word comes from the psychiatrists observation that people who suffer from this disorder are on the border of psychosis.   It is a serious mental illness.

You are absolutely right. I do not take anything you say as an offense, rather, I am very grateful for your insightful words.

I am not under some delusion that everything will be perfect, easy, and 100%  normal once she has been in some therapy for a while. I think that the reason why she has been as successful as she has in life is because she did 5+ years of therapy before we met. I know that it will take a while for her to come back down from cloud 9. My T said earlier this week as I was trying to get a rough idea about how long this would take, "It is going to take a long time. I can't tell you how long exactly, but it will take a long time." That has really been sinking in this week and it is something that I definitely did not fully understand and accept when I first started this thread.

We are careful about caffeine, alcohol and sweets.   Anything that may effect mood.   We plan on exercise and regular sleep.  No late nights.   We manage stress.

We are both still young and like to do things that young people do. Is alcohol always a bad idea? What about certain plants that are legal in some states? I feel like alcohol has often been a factor when we have had some of our most fantastic times together.

I have always been a believer in simplifying life, exercising, and getting plenty of sleep. Those three things will help anybody no matter what their health is like.

Some of my cherished dreams have been modified to accommodate what her illness could tolerate.  

How do you know where to draw the line with this? For example, I have ridden motorcycles for 11 years now. When we met, I had an extremely fast sportbike a.k.a. crotch rocket. Since we have gotten closer, she has said that she is scared about me getting another sportbike. (I have a streetbike right now, but it isn't anything like the one I used to have.)

Do I sacrifice that to help reduce her worry about me abandoning her by dying? Or do I just try to help her cope with the worry that that produces? I think that I could just go back to dirtbikes (that is how I started) and be satisfied, but I am not sure if that is the right thing to do.

There is a lot more to this disorder than a fear of abandonment.   It's not a binary subset of fear of abandonment=reassure=problem solved.  I don't mean that to sound harsh.   More to be truthful.

You are correct. It is not harsh. Engineering school is all about quantifiable data. I often look at my marriage as a math problem where things can be counted and judgements can be passed based on that quantifiable data. Recognizing shades of grey with the disorder are not something that I am particularly good at, and I do need to work on trying to remember that so that I can see all of the shades of grey.

And before you say my wife is high functioning she would never do that,  my partner is considered high functioning also.

She did rage at me publicly one time outside of her office. She wasn't screaming at the top of her lungs, but she was angry and did not have control over it. It won't give me nightmares, but it will definitely be something I'll never completely forget.

I guess part of the reason why I have as much hope as I do is because for ~20 months before this summer and her serious dysregulation started, she really took care of pretty much everything. She went grocery shopping, she did the laundry, she made the meals, she kept the apartment clean, and she took care of me. For those ~20 months, I was in engineering school full time and working full time. I rarely slept more than 5 hours/night and there were plenty of weeks where I would only get 2-3 hours/night. Through all of that, she really did take care of me physically and emotionally. I still helped out, but she definitely contributed a lot.

I recognize now that her symptoms were slowly starting to creep up on her as our lives continued to be crazy busy like that, but I still hope that we can get back to a point where she was contributing a lot. Maybe this is just a fantasy?

I wouldn't want to be reminded that I have a disorder all the time.   I would find it dismissive and frankly more than a little annoying.   Also since it is a disorder that has significant issues around blame/shame/guilt raising the disorder can play into fueling the guilt.

That is a valid point. One side of me feels like recognizing and pointing out the disorder gives us a common enemy and helps her to realize that I still love her and understand what she is going through. I have consistently read that recognizing the disorder and knowing that it isn't right is one of the most important steps to recovery. So, I have attempted to recognize and point it out when she is doing some things that are CLEARLY BPD. She has not responded negatively to those and I feel like it has helped her... .but then again maybe it is hurting her a little more each time that I mention it.

Thoughts?

Thank you all for all of your replies. They have helped me more than you can ever know.

[formflier]

This is a good idea. The last time that she said she wanted a divorce, I moved all my stuff out that day and went back to stay with my parents. She has not threatened it in the 3-4 weeks since then. I think that that sort of goes along the lines of what VOC was saying too... .to take their words at face value and just say, "Okay, let's do this."

In the future... .if she wants to alter the relationship... .let her take the action step as well.

So... .she wants divorce... .let her pack and move out.  Otherwise... .her words... .create your actions... .and can be very controlling.

Best if her words control her actions... .and your words... .control your actions.

FF

[vortex of confusion]

We are careful about caffeine, alcohol and sweets.   Anything that may effect mood.   We plan on exercise and regular sleep.  No late nights.   We manage stress.

We are both still young and like to do things that young people do. Is alcohol always a bad idea? What about certain plants that are legal in some states? I feel like alcohol has often been a factor when we have had some of our most fantastic times together.

I wanted to comment on this! I think it is great that baby ducks and partner are able to do those things together. I would like to caution that doing those things with another person is very dependent on what the other person will or won't accept.

I am curious what is meant by "we manage stress". I am not trying to nitpick. I am curious how all of this works out. It is not my job to manage my husband's stress. That is his job. I can help him out from time to time. Anything beyond that is too much.

What you and your partner choose to do should be up to the two of you individually. If the two of you can have alcohol and have fun without added drama, then go for it. The key is to pay attention to your unique situation. Something like no late nights would drive me crazy as I find night time very peaceful. Sitting on my porch in the middle of the night is very therapeutic for me. Having somebody try to push no late nights on me would irritate the snot out of me. Again, I am not trying to pick on baby ducks. I am trying to provide more information to help you think about your unique situation.

How do you know where to draw the line with this? For example, I have ridden motorcycles for 11 years now. When we met, I had an extremely fast sportbike a.k.a. crotch rocket. Since we have gotten closer, she has said that she is scared about me getting another sportbike. (I have a streetbike right now, but it isn't anything like the one I used to have.)

In my opinion, I don't think you should have to change who you are to accommodate your partner. Riding motorcycles is part of who you are. You shouldn't have to stop it because of her fears. Having said that, is there anything that you could do to help her not be so afraid? For example, have you taken any safety classes? Could you put off getting another sportbike until things are a little more settled between the two of you.

Do I sacrifice that to help reduce her worry about me abandoning her by dying? Or do I just try to help her cope with the worry that that produces? I think that I could just go back to dirtbikes (that is how I started) and be satisfied, but I am not sure if that is the right thing to do.

Don't give up the things that you love! Keep being you!

That is a valid point. One side of me feels like recognizing and pointing out the disorder gives us a common enemy and helps her to realize that I still love her and understand what she is going through. I have consistently read that recognizing the disorder and knowing that it isn't right is one of the most important steps to recovery. So, I have attempted to recognize and point it out when she is doing some things that are CLEARLY BPD. She has not responded negatively to those and I feel like it has helped her... .but then again maybe it is hurting her a little more each time that I mention it.

I am not completely sure how to articulate what I am thinking about this part. BPD is part of who she is. Having it as a common enemy could easily be seen as HER being a common enemy.

One thing about about having any kind of illness or disorder is that it can be very invalidating to have somebody claim to understand it when they have no clue or no concept of what is really going on. I am thinking of some of the more recent conversations that I have had with my husband about his self identified sex addiction. I used to try to understand it. I used to identify him as a sex addict and I did all sorts of research about it. I have gotten to a point where I don't even try to understand the SA stuff. I tell him, "I don't understand this. That is okay. I don't need to understand it in order to love you. I can see your struggles and I can stand by you through it."

I think I had that epiphany when I was trying to talk to my husband about some of my feelings one time and he did the whole, "I understand". It made me hopping mad because he doesn't understand where I am coming from and to say he does is complete BS.

The reason that we will never understand each others struggles is that we don't live in each other's heads. The only people that truly understand my struggles are those that have lived similar ones. That is why this forum is so wonderful. There are people that understand because they have experienced the same things. Some these things are beyond explanation. How many of us have tried to explain our situations to others only to be looked at like WE are the crazy ones.

I wonder if it matters whether or not something is clearly BPD. Instead of focusing on whether or not something is clearly BPD or not, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to focus on "Can I live with this?" There are some things that my husband does that are not what I would consider normal and are actually part of his charm. Those behaviors are probably BPD or related to something else. I am not going to say anything about it because I can live with it.

[turbo squash]

In the future... .if she wants to alter the relationship... .let her take the action step as well.

So... .she wants divorce... .let her pack and move out.  Otherwise... .her words... .create your actions... .and can be very controlling.

Best if her words control her actions... .and your words... .control your actions.

FF

So, if the separation is going to end, I should let her say that she wants to live together again and not say that I want to live together until she says it?

What you and your partner choose to do should be up to the two of you individually.

That makes sense. There really isn't a one size fits all kind of thing with this disorder.

I wonder if it matters whether or not something is clearly BPD. Instead of focusing on whether or not something is clearly BPD or not, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to focus on "Can I live with this?" There are some things that my husband does that are not what I would consider normal and are actually part of his charm.

This makes sense too. I think that this is a much better way of looking at it. The problem with BPD is the unpleasant symptoms that make relationships difficult. Perhaps I have been too focused on identifying all of the symptoms of BPD and trying to think about what an absence of all symptoms would look like, while forgetting that there can be pleasant symptoms to BPD.

Up until right before our separation, she would always give me the most wonderful hugs whenever we would meet each other again at the end of the day regardless of where we were. I really enjoyed that and while her craving for that may be part of BPD, it is not something that I would want her to stop.

[babyducks]

Hi Vortex

you are right,  these are all uniquely personal decisions based on our own individual situations.

For us, we identified stress as something we wanted to be mindful of.   She brought it to me as an issue and I  thought about it and agreed.  One of the ways we manage stress is to take long walks together.   I don't manage her and she doesn't manage me.   How this works out is we schedule time outs to decompress and we both enjoy it.

As to late nights,  I was thinking more along the lines of 3 nights in a row of up to 3AM in the middle of some head banging rock and roll.   I'm getting older,  that doesn't work for me.

It's not a one size fits all and I wasn't trying to imply that.   I was trying to illustrate my reality and how the disorder impacts my daily living.   Your milage may vary.

Does that make more sense?

[shatra]

Hi

Turbo wrote

and she pulled away trembling because of how scared and guilty she felt. Knowing how high of a libido she has always had, it appears to me that she is sincere. If she wanted to just suck me back in, she would not have to try very hard... .but she doesn't, which makes me think that she is sincere.

------Can you clarify? "She doesn't" do what?  Do you mean she doesn't suck you right back in?  And since she doesn't do that, she is sincere about feeling scared and guilty?

   I can see how a pwBPD would hold back out of fear and guilt, not pursuing the reconciliation as strongly as she wants it, due to feeling scared.  Scared that you will abandon her in the future if you reconcile.

Shatra