Coming for unwanted help- The hot potato conundrum

[Depression = 72% of members]

My wife does this thing that drives me crazy. She hides the agenda well, so I cannot draw a boundary unless I wish to cut off all help.

_________________________________________________________

Sometimes, she comes to me and is upset about something, ex: "not enough money for vacation." I will give her a reassuring answer, "I have 37 billion dollars in my checking account right now, please do not worry" and she rests assured.  "Surely, we can have a pleasant vacation without worrying about money because we have 37 billion dollars to back it up."

__________________________________________________________

Most of the time, it goes something like this:

I'm doing something quietly in the other room.  Father bear's computer time.

Mother bear (W) comes in to talk about something and she is worried- I can tell because she has mood hair.  (She has naturally curly hair and when she is upset, the hair puffs out like a disco diva from the 70's)

W:  I am worried we don't have enough money for our upcoming vacation.

Me:  Oh, don't worry, I just got my 100 million dollar paycheck

W:  But we owe 700 million for the house & the credit cards. We will never get out of debt

Me:  Yes, that is the American Way- debt.  But we have enough money to take the vacation, and have a good time- it is 100 freaking gazillion dollars

W:  We have tuition coming up.  Can't take the vacation

Me:  We have it covered- I already paid the tuition

W:  And we only have this much left? We can't afford to take a vacation

Me:  it must be hard to really let go and have a good time on vacation when you are so worried about money.  what can I do to help you feel better about this?

W:  No one takes care of the dog.

Me:  I take care of the dog.

W:  Why doesn't anyone help around the house?

Me:  what can I do right now to help around the house?

W:  you won't do it right anyway.  Plus, I can't count on you for ANYTHING.  You work so much- you're never home.  I don't know how blah, blah, blah.

It is impossible to actually help. What helps is me getting upset and taking on the upset that she walked into the room carrying.

______________________________________________________

She is dysregulated and comes to me to share the love, I suppose.  But there is the problem.  Sometimes, she wants my help and I provide it (I am, after all, a helper) and things go well.  It actually feels like the glue that keeps us together- me helping her feel better is the closest to intimacy we get lately.

Mostly, though, she comes for help but what it seems she needs help with is:

Transferring the upset of the dysregulation from inside her head into mine.  It's like she is hell-bent on not being the only one in the house who is upset about this terribly upsetting issue, so she will come to me feigning the need to figure out the problem.  Once she has me locked on and engaged, she says no, refutes, and dismisses every solution I offer until I am so frustrated, I feel the same anxiety / upset she did when she walked into the room looking for help.  Most of the time, she has already dismissed my proposal even before I am done proposing it.

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Ow, this potato is hot- here... .help me... .hold this potato for me.  No I will NOT put the potato down- you are the husband and I will not be helped unless YOU hold the hot potato for ME.

______________________________________________________________

This is one of the many examples of emotional abuse I experience in my marriage.  I cannot even begin to count how many times this scenario has happened in our 25 years together.  It is almost daily.

However, almost as frequent are the times where she is genuinely coming to me for advice, reassurance, or the actual need for help.  When I provide it, the problem is solved, and I can go back to searching for treasures in eBay, or reading about vintage BMW's.  The reassuring solution may not necessarily be the first one I propose, it may come 4 or 5 down the line, but most of the time, I spend all of my efforts offering reassurance but NOT being reassuring because she is not really seeking reassurance.  All she seems to need, in these instances, is for me to carry the hot potato for her.

This is not an easy thing to put a boundary around because I cannot summarily banish all requests for help.  Or coming to me when feeling dysregulated (if I even suggested something like this, she would surely rage).

I guess I just go along until I am starting to feel "this is abuse," then at that point, walk away.  Usually by then, she has succeeded in transferring the hot potato, and now I must diffuse my own upset with self soothing.  I think she actually feels better when she makes me upset, in this crazy, but not sadistic sense.

I'm sure this kind of scenario is really common with spouses wBPD, but I have not seen a good way to deal with the hot potato to ensure the hot potato doesn't land in my lap.  I know how to deal with it once the potato is mine- I'd really like some help in preventing the transfer of the potato from her to me in the first place.

Any suggestions from expert potato blockers?

Thanks-

Surg_Bear

[Surg_Bear]

My wife does this thing that drives me crazy. She hides the agenda well, so I cannot draw a boundary unless I wish to cut off all help.

_________________________________________________________

Sometimes, she comes to me and is upset about something, ex: "not enough money for vacation." I will give her a reassuring answer, "I have 37 billion dollars in my checking account right now, please do not worry" and she rests assured.  "Surely, we can have a pleasant vacation without worrying about money because we have 37 billion dollars to back it up."

__________________________________________________________

Most of the time, it goes something like this:

I'm doing something quietly in the other room.  Father bear's computer time.

Mother bear (W) comes in to talk about something and she is worried- I can tell because she has mood hair.  (She has naturally curly hair and when she is upset, the hair puffs out like a disco diva from the 70's)

W:  I am worried we don't have enough money for our upcoming vacation.

Me:  Oh, don't worry, I just got my 100 million dollar paycheck

W:  But we owe 700 million for the house & the credit cards. We will never get out of debt

Me:  Yes, that is the American Way- debt.  But we have enough money to take the vacation, and have a good time- it is 100 freaking gazillion dollars

W:  We have tuition coming up.  Can't take the vacation

Me:  We have it covered- I already paid the tuition

W:  And we only have this much left? We can't afford to take a vacation

Me:  it must be hard to really let go and have a good time on vacation when you are so worried about money.  what can I do to help you feel better about this?

W:  No one takes care of the dog.

Me:  I take care of the dog.

W:  Why doesn't anyone help around the house?

Me:  what can I do right now to help around the house?

W:  you won't do it right anyway.  Plus, I can't count on you for ANYTHING.  You work so much- you're never home.  I don't know how blah, blah, blah.

It is impossible to actually help. What helps is me getting upset and taking on the upset that she walked into the room carrying.

______________________________________________________

She is dysregulated and comes to me to share the love, I suppose.  But there is the problem.  Sometimes, she wants my help and I provide it (I am, after all, a helper) and things go well.  It actually feels like the glue that keeps us together- me helping her feel better is the closest to intimacy we get lately.

Mostly, though, she comes for help but what it seems she needs help with is:

Transferring the upset of the dysregulation from inside her head into mine.  It's like she is hell-bent on not being the only one in the house who is upset about this terribly upsetting issue, so she will come to me feigning the need to figure out the problem.  Once she has me locked on and engaged, she says no, refutes, and dismisses every solution I offer until I am so frustrated, I feel the same anxiety / upset she did when she walked into the room looking for help.  Most of the time, she has already dismissed my proposal even before I am done proposing it.

____________________________________________________________


Ow, this potato is hot- here... .help me... .hold this potato for me.  No I will NOT put the potato down- you are the husband and I will not be helped unless YOU hold the hot potato for ME.

______________________________________________________________

This is one of the many examples of emotional abuse I experience in my marriage.  I cannot even begin to count how many times this scenario has happened in our 25 years together.  It is almost daily.

However, almost as frequent are the times where she is genuinely coming to me for advice, reassurance, or the actual need for help.  When I provide it, the problem is solved, and I can go back to searching for treasures in eBay, or reading about vintage BMW's.  The reassuring solution may not necessarily be the first one I propose, it may come 4 or 5 down the line, but most of the time, I spend all of my efforts offering reassurance but NOT being reassuring because she is not really seeking reassurance.  All she seems to need, in these instances, is for me to carry the hot potato for her.

This is not an easy thing to put a boundary around because I cannot summarily banish all requests for help.  Or coming to me when feeling dysregulated (if I even suggested something like this, she would surely rage).

I guess I just go along until I am starting to feel "this is abuse," then at that point, walk away.  Usually by then, she has succeeded in transferring the hot potato, and now I must diffuse my own upset with self soothing.  I think she actually feels better when she makes me upset, in this crazy, but not sadistic sense.

I'm sure this kind of scenario is really common with spouses wBPD, but I have not seen a good way to deal with the hot potato to ensure the hot potato doesn't land in my lap.  I know how to deal with it once the potato is mine- I'd really like some help in preventing the transfer of the potato from her to me in the first place.

Any suggestions from expert potato blockers?

Thanks-

Surg_Bear

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[vortex of confusion]

The example you give about finances. . .How involved is she in the finances? Is she open to sitting down with you and letting you show her how you juggle the money to make sure that everything is taken care of?

Is the question really about the finances or could the underlying need be security?

I am not sure how to explain this. . .there was a time when my husband would try to pass me the potato and I would take it and try to cool it down or get upset because I was getting burned.

The easiest way to explain it is to give an example of when I stopped taking the potato. . .

When we were experimenting outside the relationship, he would come to me and talk to me about these other women. He asked me what he should do. I told him, "I am not going to answer that question. I think you need to talk to your counselor or your sponsor. I am not in a position to help you with this."

Instead of asking what I can do to help, I would pass it back to him and then end the conversation or change the subject.

This stuck out:

Me:  it must be hard to really let go and have a good time on vacation when you are so worried about money.  what can I do to help you feel better about this?

I know that you are trying to be validating. It doesn't come across that way. I wonder what would happen if you took a different approach and said something like, "I can see that you are worried about the finances. What can YOU do to feel better about that? Can we sit down and review our finances together? Do you need more information about what is going on with the finances?"

Part of not taking the potato is to stop offering to fix it or make them feel better. Try asking her questions to get her to thinking about things that she can do on her own. If she needs your help, let her know that you are available to support her and hold her hand. Don't offer to fix it or make her feel better. She needs to learn how to self soothe and that isn't going to happen as long as you keep trying to swoop in and fix things.

It is NOT easy to change that line of thinking. At least it wasn't for me. My default mode is to swoop in and find ways to make things better rather than letting him try to figure it out for himself.

Transferring the upset of the dysregulation from inside her head into mine.  It's like she is hell-bent on not being the only one in the house who is upset about this terribly upsetting issue, so she will come to me feigning the need to figure out the problem.  Once she has me locked on and engaged, she says no, refutes, and dismisses every solution I offer until I am so frustrated, I feel the same anxiety / upset she did when she walked into the room looking for help.  Most of the time, she has already dismissed my proposal even before I am done proposing it.

Don't engage! Initially, that might cause more upset. If you can practice not engaging, she will eventually get the hint that you are not going to take on her stuff. It is a process and it takes time. When I was first trying to not get sucked into his stuff, I would sit and listen and provide minimal feedback. I didn't try to validate that much and instead tried to keep my responses more neutral and even. I would sing song in my head to help me stay on track and not get so emotionally involved. The more I am able to separate his stuff from mine and stay on my side of the road, the easier it gets.

Sometimes, it helps to NOT give a proposal. Have you tried responses like, "I am not sure how you should deal with that. What are your thoughts?" Even if her thoughts are completely ridiculous, let her go with them. No need to offer proposals and try to fix things for her. That can be very, very difficult especially when your default is to help, fix, soothe, and do whatever you can to make things better.

[formflier]

 

I'll try to give more detailed response later... .

I think load of validation and NO solutions... zip ... .zero... .none is the way to go.

I suck as a validater.  I can avoid invalidation pretty good... .by talking less.

So... .what you said looks like one of my attempts to validate... .and similar results.  I've sort of quit trying... .until I can get better... figure it out. 

More later... hang in there. 

Think about the difference (to you) in being supportive... and "engaging" or fixing.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Surg,

I understand what you're saying about our pwBPD's wanting us to share in their dysregulation. I tend to be a very unemotional and logical person and I think it really pi$$es off my husband when I don't get upset along with him about his issue du jour.

At times, I tried faking it, as though I was upset too, but being a bad actress, I'm sure it wasn't convincing. Other times I tried to offer solutions, which isn't at all what he wants. Often it came down to him being so irritating that I just got annoyed with him and voila, he got his wish--to share the misery.

Nowadays I just listen and don't feel compelled to do anything. It's his right if he wants to be upset. I don't need to join him there.

Cat

[Ceruleanblue]

Wow, that's it exactly. I think my BPDh isn't happy until he has me upset too. With him, it isn't so much worry, it's more he's upset/angry/bored, and he'll start something. He seems to thrive on chaos, although he says he's tired of it. If he was so tired of it, he'd stop creating it with his actions. He'll do or say something just to get a rise out of me.

Once he's gotten me upset or hurt, he seems to feel better. I guess it's a case of misery loves company? I'm trying to not take the bait anymore, but it's hard.

[sempervivum]

Yes, our partners like this spiralling into their problems. Maybe we are the pencil for their crossword puzzle.

I am happy and proud of myself for growing in this area: I used to take active part in this and was unhappy when my h was unhappy for something that did not go well. It was as if I were Jesus taking all the sins of the world, sorry for comparison.

I have one sort of fresh hot potato, too. When my h is doing something, he likes to make a fuss about every little detail. He wants everybody to hear when a screw is missing, when the bulb is out and so on. A while ago a friend asked him to repair his mower. When I saw the size of it, I thought it was a toy, but OK, men have their joys. So my handyman dived into work. He took the whole machine apart, sweated, cursed, tried to draw my attention to his problems. I just "continued with my life". Then it became dark and he withdrew to the garage. The noise lasted until half past midnight. I did not ask him did he make it, he returned the mower in God knows what state.