Why do adult children of pwBPD often live a chaotic lifestyle?

[Woolspinner2000]

I've just returned from a visit to my sister and her family. While it was nice to see her and visit with my nieces and nephew, I left her home feeling overwhelmed and confused by all the constant chaos that exists within the walls of her home and in the structure of her family. I'm trying to process and separate the differences that exist because of our individuality as people and what, if anything, is connected to our upbringing as children of a pwBPD. In my visit this time, I chose to not try and 'rescue' her from her messy house or parenting. That was a big step for the big sister (me) who had to raise her little sister so much of the time.

In the past, I too have struggled greatly with the need to constantly be busy and on the run, never able to take a rest. I know it was because I'd get in trouble for not having something done that uBPDm had assigned to me. Because of T, I'm improving greatly, but I still struggle to not fit too much in my day. It's a process I believe, of learning to unlearn.

My sister (and her DH) is a workaholic. She has piles all around her house (on every horizontal surface as my b-in-l says to me), forgets to feed her children or waits til late at night (10 or 10:30 pm for supper sometimes), as if she is unaware of what they need. I'm not criticizing as much as I'm looking for some help to figure this out for I do love and enjoy my sister. I am puzzled. All I know is that I felt as disorganized as the children must feel on a continual basis, and I was merely a bystander for a few days. The kids fight a lot too, have trouble with behavior at school and staying awake, but my sister tries hard to do it different than our uBPDm did.

Funny thing is that if I stop to think about it, there were these vaguely familiar moments of "oh my gosh, I've been here before, in this busy helter skelter life and fighting siblings," strangely reminiscent of my FOO.

So does anyone else who has a pwBPD struggle with the "I have to keep working/busy/taking the children somewhere/cannot sit still" lifestyle? If so, why do you think this is?

Thank you!

Woolspinner

[Turkish]

Hi Wools,

I'll share something the coaches said that I learned in at-risk youth mentoring, "you don't know what you don't know."

It probably feels familiar for you to want to "do" and want to "fix" things, because that's all that you knew growing up. Its hard to break out of a life-long pattern. Maybe it triggers anxiety in you to want to clean up your little sister's hoard. Truthfully,.it would probably elicit the same feelngs in anybody!

I think you did well in not flying to the rescue to "fix" something that both isn't your job to fix, and also isn't possible for you to fix. That's your sister's job. Or not. Her life, her choices.

Its really sad that the kids have to eat dinner probably past their bedtimes. Very frustrating. As long as they're not malnourished, the way their family runs is the way it runs.

[HappyChappy]

So does anyone else who has a pwBPD struggle with the "I have to keep working/busy/taking the children somewhere/cannot sit still" lifestyle? If so, why do you think this is?

I can totally relate, in fact I can remember other threads on this website on this topic got a lot of agreement, so I believe it’s relatively quiet common.

A BPD tends encourage their kids to do things for them. So we can be parentified or just be doing chores way before our friends are. A BPD also likes tension in their life (as they probably had growing up). Also if you want to manipulate someone (as BPD do) keep them busy. As my boss once said “if staff aren’t busy they’ve got time to form unions or look for other jobs”. BPD use other techniques such as bombardment, to keep us busy. So for all of those reason we children of BPD are prone to being workaholics. I and my spouses were. But being the scapegoat and the one expected to do most (Cinderella syndrome) it’s far more pronounced in me. The theory states a scapegoat will either give in to predictions of failure, or burn themselves out trying to prove the predictions wrong. Was your sister the scapegoat ? The problem with this is that BPD parents don’t tend to teach us how to self sooth or stress release techniques. So it’s a double whammy being a workaholic.

I would also agree with Turkish, that you did well not to fall back into the fixer mode. But also say as a parent, if you sister gives her kids love, validation and makes them feel safe (which I’m guessing she does) the other things are way less important. The way I stopped being a workaholic was by identifying shortly after realising I had a BPD mom and was the scapegoat. Does your sister know she’s a workaholic and why ?   

[Leaving]

Hi Wools,

Gosh, after reading everyone's posts, my mind is spinning about my own life and my BPD husband... .some thoughts:

From my experience with my NPD-BPD mother and husband is that they have little to no capacity for organization, cleanliness, time management.  They also have very little to no awareness of other people's needs. They are very egocentric children.  My brother and I are not clean freaks or germaphobes but given how we grew up with our mother, both of us are very organized people and we don't allow anything to pile up to an unmanageable level.  I can't stand feeling overwhelmed with chaos and I live by the motto that there is a place for everything and everything should be in its place.  My mother rarely cooked but when she did it was always a chaotic mess.  She would leave eggshells on the counter for days, open jars of mayonnaise, she would burn food.  She was ' lazy' about preparing anything for anyone and often we would find the plastic still on the cheese, the bag of turkey giblets still in the turkey on T'giving. Another time she left a very expensive ham in the back of her car for days and didn't even care.  One time she served Peters fertilzer to everyone because she forgot she made it and thought it was koolaid or something. I can't help but think she did those stupid things on purpose because she was in her angry child mode.  You see, her mother was a fabulous cook and homemaker and my mother resented her for that so my mother couldn't bare to do anything that would make her mother proud of her- whether her mother was present or not.  That's also why she devalues her money.

One of the reasons that I enjoy keeping things organized, relatively clean and nice is because I get the immediate satisfaction in producing something that I can see and enjoy. I feel productive and alive and not invisible like I have most of my life.  It's difficult though because my husband undoes everything I do and for the past year, I don't feel very inspired to put as much energy into creating a nice home.  I don't do holidays anymore, don't do birthdays or other special occasions anymore.  I also live and work in my home and it's my sacred space.  I keep things around on display that make me happy ( I adopted a very Feng Shui lifestyle about 15 years ago).

Turkish mentioned the ' fix it mentality' and I believe that there is a component in my need for organization that relates to control- a need to feel in control by fixing chaos or preventing it.   I was also the Cinderella in my home as a child.  It's interesting that my mother taught me how to do everything just right- how to clean properly, how to care for a home, etc... and yet she never did any of that!  Obviously, she turned me into the woman that she wanted to be on one hand but loathed on the other.  Hence, her love/hate relationship with me.

Realistically and logically, I simply value what I have and I take care of it through regular cleaning and maintenance and I invest in things that I hope will last a lifetime. I assumed that my husband also valued our things but I now realize that he hasn't the capacity to value anything, including me or anything I do.  My mother and husband have a very disposable mindset and they will abuse and destroy everything and everyone and take absolutely no accountability for their behavior.  They will both giggle like silly children when someone confronts them about their unruly behavior.

Well anyway, I don't think I'm a workaholic per se but I definitely focus my energy into keeping my home nice and organized and clean especially when I'm feeling out of control and stressed. I do something in my home that produces an almost instant result of making me feel more at ease, in control and productive.  I would imagine that most people who are workaholics are receiving that same type of positive reinforcement that I do.  After all, I think it's only natural that most people want to feel productive and like they are making progress in life.  My husband and mother are workaholics too but for a different reason.  They are martyrs who enjoy looking like poor hard-working victims.  They use their work to gain sympathy and attention from others. The insane thing is that they claim to work SO SO SO hard and yet never have anything to show for it.  You would not believe how much coin money is sitting in my lawn today. My mother would never carry a purse- only a plastic shopping bag and she would tell people she was too busy to worry about looking proper.  My husband's wallet is 6 inches thick , filled with tons of candy wrappers, trash and no money.

 

[Woolspinner2000]

Hmm... .great points by all.  Since I only arrived back home a few days ago, my head is still very much in process, and your thoughts are all quite helpful to me.

I believe, Turkish, that your thoughts are very relevant, especially as related to the "fix it" mode of mentality. How funny that it is so ingrained, so much a part of who I am that I wasn't able to pick up on it. For that I do thank you, because while it may be unconscious, it still is real and won't help either my sister or me. It truly is 2nd nature, and as you and Happy both pointed out, it is all we knew so I'll let myself off the hook and learn from another experience as I journey forward to unlearn.

I think it was rather surprising to me to recognize how my sister functions, even though I've been somewhat aware of it on a surface level. In this visit (it has been a year since I last went down), I'm now much more aware of so many things including my inner child. I opted to stay overnight with my sister instead of in my uBPDm's house. Even though my mom is deceased, her house where my step-dad lives is entirely my mom's throughout. With my T help and guidance, the plan was to stay out of that house because I did not need to go in and 'feel' my mom's presence and all the triggering that results. However, I didn't expect the triggering of staying at my sister's, as seen through the eyes of Lil Wools. Guess I went from one frying pan to the other.

I stayed in the same room as my 9 year old niece during my visit (the 5 & 6 year old usually sleep with mom and dad), which on one hand was pleasant as I got to know her better, but on the other hand, the reminders of familiarity (too much familiarity in my FOO, as in emotional enmeshment) were quite unsettling to my inner child. And the busyness, as you mentioned Happy, was so pronounced that there was no time to think of anything except "what's next on the list to do?" Your reasoning of why our BPD wants to keep us busy hits home. My sister has often said that our uBPDm would say to us (I don't remember this-it's just gone), "Idle hands are the devil's workshop." No wonder she has to keep busy. I don't think she realizes that she is a workaholic. I certainly struggle with it myself but the % has improved. My brother too is in the same boat with us. It's unsettling how damaging the pwBPD can be.

As to the question about if she was the scapegoat, I've not been successful in determining which of us has been in which role with our BPD. I have struggled to figure it out and understand (the golden child, the black or the white one) and sometimes think I have it, but then I feel that I don't. I know that I was the Cinderella figure, the one who stepped most strongly into the parentification role, yet each of my siblings was there from time to time. I was the one who tended to be ostracized because I chose to not need her and lived 1200 miles away. My sister and brother lived within a few hours of mom, receiving thousands of dollars of 'care' and 'caretaking' from mom.

All this being said, as you have all mentioned, my sister does love her children and except for the fighting amongst them, at least the rage is not there and they are fed and cared for. As Turkish said, "The way they run is the way they run." Leaving, what I pull away from your helpful words is the fact that we control what we can, and a lot of that has to do with our upbringing, "by fixing the chaos or preventing it." I noticed upon taking careful review of my home, there are reasons why I have taken so much time to try and clean and organize these past few years. Before that I was in much the same place as my sister, but now I understand a lot of what is going on behind the scene as I'm going through T.

Do you know where there is helpful information to help me figure out the roles my siblings and I stepped into (scapegoat, etc.) or if you can share more thoughts along that line?

Wools 

[HappyChappy]

Do you know where there is helpful information to help me figure out the roles my siblings and I stepped into (scapegoat, etc.) or if you can share more thoughts along that line?

A BPD will build up the achievements of the Golden Child (GC) and diminish the achievements of the scapegoat (SG). There can also be the “lost child” who tends to be ignored. And the “entertainer” who needs to entertain to get any attention. Triangulation is basically a control technique designed to divide and conquer the troops by creating imbalance and jealously between them. So it is purposefully trying to create uneven treatment.

The trouble with triangulation is that we are punished for going against and rewarded for adhering to a BPD triangulation. So it becomes the “norm” before we realise we’re playing up to rolls. But a “fixer” is a role. Also Cinderella was the depiction of a scapegoat. So the ugly sisters are GC because the mother thinks they are her true beauties and the ones the Prince would want. The scapegoat is normally the one the BPD (and others) pushes the blame on. Others in the household will be encourage to push blame onto the scapegoat also. Which is why a scapegoat is the most likely one to look for explanations, to discover the BPD theory or to go for Therapy. I hope that helps. I know there is variation on the triangulation theme, not sure if all BPD use it, but mine did big time. 

[Leaving]

Wools,

It's interesting that at one time in my life, I too was a slob but as soon as I was physically independent of my mother, I began to change immediately. There's no doubt that once I began living on my own, my emotions were much more stable and so, my living environment began to reflect that inner stability. Plus, I began to feel the freedom to express my own values. 

I've read a lot of books on codependency, watched videos on youtube etc... .Resources for ACoA are helpful. 

You can listen to one of my favorite audiobooks on the topic for free on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERa9LY6N528k

When the label of codependency was created ( mainly for ACoA)  there were 4 or 5 basic dysfunctional roles in the families but since then different psychologists have created a few additional roles that are specific to family pathologies like narcissim, BPD, substance abuse.

In my own family, I was thrust into at least 2 roles ( parent/adult/caregiver/scapegoat)  but always the scapegoat.  I was the oldest sibling.  My brother was the golden child.  Being the daughter of a narcissistic mother with BPD, my mother identified with me and conditioned me to be her.  I had absolutely no individual identity, I was completely invisible.  I actually think that most codpendents are 'invisible' in all dysfunctional relationships.  After all, we must abandon our true self and our own needs in order to serve the needs of others in order to function in the family.  Even the golden child abandons their true self to serve the need of their parent who needs them to fulfill that role.  I don't think my brother had it any easier, he just had a very different experience.  Our memories of our childhood are completely different because I was protecting him and shielding him from the suffering or rather, the truth. 

Codependency is all about control.  It's ironic how " Care" becomes CONTROL in these dysfunctional relationships.  Children learn early on what they can control and what they can't ( superficially that is).  Once they leave the family and strike out on their own, the need for control remains in tact but they find other things to control that make them feel safe and stable.  My brother controls money because money makes him feel safe and secure.  I control my home environment because home was the most uncomfortable place for me as a child.   

My mother and husband create chaos and live like slobs in order to feel in control of their own life.  It doesn't make sense to me but I believe it's passive-aggressive rebellion caused by being controlled by a parent who controlled and shamed them. They are self destructive as a means to establish autonomy.  Their constant ' mess' is also a means for them to 'hide' or repress emotions and avoid the truth. Mess and chaos and drama are all distractions from the real problem.  Hoarding is a type of control.  Substance abuse controls emotions. Eating disorders are a form of control- perhaps a metaphor for stuffing down or purging emotions? Everyone in my husband's family has an eating disorder- either they over-eat or as in my husband's case, vacillates between binging and anorexia. He consumed an entire 5 lb box of Christmas cookies in one sitting.

I hate to sound like a cold insensitive person because I'm not but to be frank, I'm really sick and worn out from living with sick people.  I don't even want to observe these types of people from a distance.  I just want to be free of all this so badly.  I have NC with my mother and now I want a divorce, I want to be able to create my own life and wake up each day free from fear and anxiety.

[Woolspinner2000]

Happy,

Thank you for your explanation which is pretty easy to understand. Using the example of Cinderella as the scapegoat and the step-sisters as the GC makes sense  , and it is a good picture offering clarity. BTW, did you see the new Cinderella movie? I went with some friends to watch it, forgetting completely the connection I'd have to it until the movie began. Then I had to ask myself, "What were you thinking?" It ended up alright for me though, and it has prompted many thoughts and greater understandings for myself as the Cinderella/scapegoat figure. The evil step mother was eerily familiar.

As I've thought on my FOO and my siblings, I wonder if it isn't possible for the 1st born to be the GC, then when that one hasn't met the BPD's needs, the 2nd born takes on the GC role for a time until the next child comes along and the cycle repeats itself. I think in my FOO that this is what happened. Each one of us seemed to be in the GC position until booted out by another GC, which then turned the non-GC into one of the other positions such as scapegoat. Do you know if that is possible? It tends to go along with your other helpful point:

Triangulation is basically a control technique designed to divide and conquer the troops by creating imbalance and jealously between them. So it is purposefully trying to create uneven treatment.

It seemed as if once we had stepped out of the GC position, then the triangulation was terrible, pitting one against the other, and the rivalry between the 3 of us got pretty bad. Sometimes I hear people allude to the fact that siblings get along well, and then I become confused because of course we know that such behavior is not normal! Well, at least in dysfunctional families it isn't. Boggles my mind that such could be true, but I guess it's possible, in some other world or dimension!

Leaving, your points about the different psychological types is quite intriguing! Thank you for sharing it. And the whole idea of control is so interesting as well. How odd to realize that control can also be seen in having chaos but indeed, that is a form of control. Causes me to think and reconsider my own life and where I see control. I'm certainly glad that I've begun to give up control in some areas, allowing myself to unlearn that tendency, for example as seen in co-dependent relationships.

I hate to sound like a cold insensitive person because I'm not but to be frank, I'm really sick and worn out from living with sick people.  I don't even want to observe these types of people from a distance.  I just want to be free of all this so badly.

My T has pointed out that the better we get and the more we are healed, the less we wish to put up with the dysfunction we see so much more clearly in others. 

Wools