Eating crow?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I have a funny feeling that I'm coming up on a recycle attempt.  I didn't think it would happen, but some signs are there.

Like many of you, I'm torn about what I would do about this and I'm trying to make a plan.

Given that this guy told me that it was over and blocked me on everything, I shared a lot of the bad parts of the relationship with friends and family.  I'm really close to my parents, so they know a lot of what happened.  After all, when he left like that, I had nothing to lose.

Did any of you go through the meat grinder of a BPD breakup and then try to rationalize your decision to get back together to friends and family who thought you were an idiot?  I haven't decided what I want to do yet, but I want to know what I might be facing . . .

[GreenEyedMonster]

I have a funny feeling that I'm coming up on a recycle attempt.  I didn't think it would happen, but some signs are there.

Like many of you, I'm torn about what I would do about this and I'm trying to make a plan.

Given that this guy told me that it was over and blocked me on everything, I shared a lot of the bad parts of the relationship with friends and family.  I'm really close to my parents, so they know a lot of what happened.  After all, when he left like that, I had nothing to lose.

Did any of you go through the meat grinder of a BPD breakup and then try to rationalize your decision to get back together to friends and family who thought you were an idiot?  I haven't decided what I want to do yet, but I want to know what I might be facing . . .

[LostGhost]

I'm in a similar situation but not coming up on a recycle attempt. Our first breakup left me devastated and depressed, really put me in a dark place. I had to share what happened with my family and close friends and when the recycle opportunity came up I jumped at the chance. But my family and friends were very apprehensive about my decision. They warned me not to go back and I did. And eventually the same thing happened and I'm back where I was before and still hoping for a recycle. My family and friends are now at the point where it's going to become an intervention if I go back. It can never be a happy, normal, healthy relationship. Imagine us all sitting around a Christmas dimmer together, both families. I'm the "jealous" ass who gets upset about her million guy friends. And she's the one that nearly institutionalized me. What a happy couple!

But there comes a time I guess when we have to make our own choices and not worry about judgement. If we recycle or choose to be with someone, even at risk to ourselves, we have to face the consequences and the rewards on our own. We won't be able to expect compassion if it goes wrong or for people to rejoice when it goes right. Silent victories and silent losses.

I know I shouldn't go back into the fire again. I used to weigh 185 lbs. Now I weigh 159 lbs. Stress

[GreenEyedMonster]

I know I shouldn't go back into the fire again. I used to weigh 185 lbs. Now I weigh 159 lbs. Stress

Yeah, I went to the doctor this past week and she was like, "You lost nine pounds!"  I was like, um, yeah . . . yeah I did.

My ex seems to have taken a strange interest in where I am, since I have gone NC and made a point of mysteriously disappearing.  For someone who claims he never wanted to hear from me again, it's strange that he's joining every online list I'm in.

[JQ]

Hi Greeneyes,

Your story isn't much different then a lot of us in hear. Yep, we all lose weight because of the stress ... .sometimes it's not a bad thing ... .sometimes it is. I like you am starting to be recycled by my exBPDgf ... .and perhaps I'll post my own thread here tonight about the situation ... .but currently we're on a break why she calls her kids and then will call me back.  The conversation started out tense ... .but as I explained what I had to she became more at ease and even thanked me for sharing ... .I'm wondering when she'll call me back.

SO I digress ... .I'm SUPER FINE HAMBURGER considering how many times I went though meat grinder AAAAAND like you I bounce back & forth everyday ... .every hour what the hell should I do next. It's not an easy choice ... .and that is part of what my conversation with her will be next when she calls back ... .I might of given her to much to think about tonight. I digress once again ... .soo ... .

YOU my friend will ALWAYS be recycled ... .it's what they do. If not tomorrow ... .if not next week ... .or next month ... .YOU will be recycled it's a matter of time. It's why Ghost lost 9 lbs well ... .they lost more then that ... .as we all do. It's the internal struggle we have to stay or go ... .we love them, we care for them, but their behavior is BATSH!T crazy and I can't deal with them anymore so I'm leaving. then they're fear of abandonment kicks in and they start to recycle ... .recycle ... .it's a circle ... .there is no beginning and there is no end ... .you're stuck in this loop of emotional turmoil that is hell to deal with. Because at the core ... .we are most likely codependent ... .we care to freaking much because of the behavior we learned as children ... .trying to win the approval of a absent parent ... .maybe a parent who was a BPD themselves ... .we loong to help them be the white hat cowboy/girl riding in on our white horse name Silver ;-)  to save the day ... .to save them from their destructive behavior ... .to let them know that we LOOVE THEM ! That we will show them, tell them, share out life with them in sickness & in health to be with them. Only to be pushed away in the cycle of push / pull ... .I love you ... .I hate you ... .don't leave me.

My first exBPDgf from 20 years ago, "long before I knew what BPD was" drove me away ... .BATSH!T CRAZY & THE ENGINEER ON THE CRAZY TRAIN!  I was young, uneducated in what BPD was ... .but because the sex was AWWWWESOME ... .I thought it would be great to be with her. Don't get me wrong she had an amazing out going personality that laughed and was carefree about life that I loved. What I come to find out that dad was always on the road ... .mom spent time in the local hospital rubber room diagnosed as bi-polar paranoid physco and so she grew up in the household. Which was most likely the cause of her BPD ... .I was young ... .I didn't know and decided at the young age of 22 I didn't want a lifetime on the crazy train ride ... .I get dizzy & throw up easy. :-D

Now two wives later and my second exBPDgf ... .I'm a lot smarter going through therapy myself to make sure I wasn't the one that was the engineer but also learning because of my childhood that I was a codependent ... .which opened my eyes and I started to learn why I acted and behaved the way I did when it came to relationships. The good news is ... .I have to learn to say no ... .like I did with the first BPDgf ... .but this one is different ... .I'm older ... .more life experience ... .I truly believe she is a wonderful, smart, caring person ... .who is trying to understand her own behavior but struggling with it. Yes I want to help ... .yes I want to be in a relationship with her ... .but she has this INTENSE fear of abandonment which I've learned from this website & forum in addition to a lot of therapy and books.

Tonight I've decided to tell her that I've learned a lot about BPD ... .that it's a life long behavioral issue and that for us NONs if we want to be with them we have to recognized that life with a BPD will be anything but normal ... .that it's the best roller coaster ride that you will ever be on ... .that you & them will likely be in therapy for the rest of your lives trying to manage this condition / illness. You have to recognize that, you have to accept it ... .and then decide if it's truly what you want  ... .that's about where we left the conversation before she had to go call her kids. It's been awhile ... .I don't know if she'll call back ... .I gave her a lot to digest ... .

If you decide to leave know that no one judges you ... .or if you stay ... .no one judges you. You have to educate yourself on all that you can about BPD ... .make an informed choice based on all the knowledge you have learned ... .then look deep within yourself to decide if this is the life you want to live. Is this person going to her a good mother/father to your children? Will they provide a good example of what a loving, caring, mutually respectful relationship is suppose to be like for your kids? will they respect you? Be honest with you because BPD have a tendency to lie because of their behavioral illness ... .it's a self protection thing they learned long before you showed up in the picture ... .you won't be able to control BPD ... .and you sure won't be able to cure it ... .

SO ... .if you decide that there isn't a way forward with your BPD ... .then you need to have that conversation with them and in this case with the BPD family since you're close with them. then you need to go NC ... .FULL NC ... .I did with my first exBPDgf ... .she stalked me for a couple of years until I threaten federal legal action. Only after my divorce with wife number two did she get my number from my BPD mother and start to stalk me again, text me again, sext me, call me ... .thank god for new technology ... .I just simply block her number and bam ... .no more harassment.

As far as this goes ... .when we finish this conversation ... .AND WE WILL FINISH it ... .the choice will be made shortly there after to stay or go ... .it has to be made. I can't be in limbo any longer ... .I can't go back and forth like this much longer ... .there are 7,965,489,264 people in the world ... .I think I can find someone who is NOT BPD and can have a mutually respectful meaningful, loving, caring, relationship with me :-D

SO ... .I don't know if any of that helps you or not ... .but as my exBPDgf is fond of telling me ... .thanks of sharing ... .hehehehe

JQ

[LostGhost]

Thanks for your post JQ. It was very detailed and well thought out, coming from years of experience and wisdom.

I know for certain I have codependency traits. I don't know where they come from to be honest. I look at my parents and they're wonderful folks, always ready to lend an ear to my problems. They said a lot of the same things as you have like "is she going to be a good mother to your future children?".

I don't know why I miss her. It wasn't an easy relationship walking on eggshells, using SET and validation and trying to interpret the backwards psychology in her words and actions. I had to juggle being a caretaker, a partner, a best friend, a maid, a punching bag, a doormat. So why do I feel like all I can think about is her and the times we shared together. I miss her laughter, her smile, her singing and dancing. It's all the little things I miss, those intrinsic characteristics and qualities that remind me that we are all human and we all have the same basic desire to find contentment in our lives,

I know she doesn't want to be disordered. She doesn't want a chaotic life. I really saw her making strides this time around, becoming more spiritual. I got her into yoga and art. And it really seemed to ground her, especially yoga. But in the end the push cycle came and I was devalued anyways.

You say they always recycle but this time feels different. It feels like it has more finality to it. Maybe it just gets harder to believe they'll come back the more times you go through it?

I bounce back and forth between this community and regular relationship advice forums. And in a regular relationship, being a doormat and a caretaker is a recipe for disaster. Girls don't want that, it kills the attraction and then the intimacy is gone. I keep reading you need a little darkness in you, a bad boy attitude. Be a nice guy, but have a dominant side too where you take control, take risks, steer the reins. I never did any of that because I was afraid of the BPD and how it would react. But the more I became her servant, the more the intimacy died. The more I showed I cared the more she pushed. She'd always reassure me "no I like nice guys that do things like you" but how can I believe that?

I really feel like the only way to have a relationship with them is to detach, not invest, not care. Just keep them at arm's length. And they'll find it attractive?

I was confident when I was apart from her, and doing my own thing. And that's how I won her back or so I thought. I thought that's why she recycled me. Maybe that wasn't it at all though. At any rate I got caught up walking on eggshells again, being a doormat and the cycle repeated. And now I'm alone again, in the same place I was a year ago. Hoping I can find a way back to her smile, laughter, singing and dancing. Those eyes of hers, a whole universe to get lost in when I looked into them. Her most attractive feature by far. And her butt 

[LostGhost]

And yeah I've lost about... .25 lbs? I don't feel stressed necessarily. The first time around I did. But the second time around I kind of braced myself because I saw her withdrawing intimacy and distancing herself. It's obviously effecting me though on every level.

You guys talking about all your amazing crazy sex are lucky. Sex with her, I felt like she never could let herself get into it fully. Like having sex with someone who is emotionally 5 years old or something. It was still good and fun and exciting while it lasted (about 4 months and then nothing for the remaining 7 months)  

I sure do miss her though. Even if we were just best friends/roommates/cuddle partners at the end. Universe grant me the strength to get healthy again, whether it's for a third recycle or to move forward.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Thanks for all your replies.  Right now, after everything that has happened and the things I shared with others, I feel total shame about the possibility that I might want him back.  I don't know how I could ever explain it to my parents or my friends.  But I miss him like heck, too.

I think I have more of an attachment problem than a codependency problem.  I will sometimes seem codependent because I'll be determined to "fix" someone so that I can stay attached to them, but I'm not a caretaking personality, generally speaking.  I have sometimes wondered, because of my own attachment issues, if I am marriage material.  I certainly have little interest in having children, and neither did my BPD ex.  So that leaves me thinking that maybe we would make good companions, with a "lighter" commitment than marriage.  I functioned well like this in a long-term relationship before.

Right now my ex is not speaking to me.  He initiated the breakup and the silent treatment.  However, he was treating me like a stalking threat and hiding from me at the beginning, whereas two days ago, he joined two online social lists that I'm on, in my plain view.  He apparently joined those two lists and not others that I can see; my profile is public and he could see that I was on them.  I think that he is past painting me black and transitioning into missing me.  I understand that even dumpers (as opposed to dumpees) recycle, so I suspect that it's coming.

And I am going to look batsh!t crazy for taking this guy back, too.  Oh well.

[JQ]

Thanks for all your replies.  Right now, after everything that has happened and the things I shared with others, I feel total shame about the possibility that I might want him back.  I don't know how I could ever explain it to my parents or my friends.  But I miss him like heck, too.

I think I have more of an attachment problem than a codependency problem.  I will sometimes seem codependent because I'll be determined to "fix" someone so that I can stay attached to them, but I'm not a caretaking personality, generally speaking.  I have sometimes wondered, because of my own attachment issues, if I am marriage material.  I certainly have little interest in having children, and neither did my BPD ex.  So that leaves me thinking that maybe we would make good companions, with a "lighter" commitment than marriage.  I functioned well like this in a long-term relationship before.

Right now my ex is not speaking to me.  He initiated the breakup and the silent treatment.  However, he was treating me like a stalking threat and hiding from me at the beginning, whereas two days ago, he joined two online social lists that I'm on, in my plain view.  He apparently joined those two lists and not others that I can see; my profile is public and he could see that I was on them.  I think that he is past painting me black and transitioning into missing me.  I understand that even dumpers (as opposed to dumpees) recycle, so I suspect that it's coming.

And I am going to look batsh!t crazy for taking this guy back, too.  Oh well.

Greeneyes ... .you know there's a great 70's "hippy" song ... .Green eyed lady ... .lovely lady ... .

Anyway ... .the wonderful thing about being human is that NO TWO ARE ALIKE!  You have to realize this when we discuss anything about someone with or without BPD. Out of all the characteristics that they share ... .there will always be things that they do different.  DO NOT FEEL SHAME!  YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING WITH FEELINGS THAT CARES DEEPLY FOR ANOTHER HUMAN BEING & THAT IS NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF !   Its ok to miss them ... .we all miss our exBPDs for one reason or another ... .we too are deeply caring individuals and maybe that's why someone who doesn't feel as we do find it hard to understand what we feel ... .why we go back and forth ... .why we take them back after being tossed to the curb.  Only to want them back at the first sign of a recycle ... .why do we do that?  Remember the 3 C's of BPD ... .YOU didn't Cause it!  YOU can't Control it! AND YOU SURE AS HELL CAN'T CURE IT! or fix it ... .we just can't ... .it certainly isn't a lack of caring, trying or wishing on our part ... .you have to accept the fact that someone with BPD will most likely need therapy for the rest of their life ... .and if you want to be with them ... .you'll need it as well.

Set boundaries ... .as I have learned it's one of the key's to a better relationship with someone who has BPD. NOTE ... .I said better ... .far from perfect! So far it seems to be working for me ... .we take a step or two backwards but for the most part ... .I've set a boundary or two and she respects me a little more for it I believe. When she pushes the boundary she actually will text, or call to say she's sorry, that she shouldn't of done that or said that. I've set another boundary this week ... .TELL ME THE TRUTH! Regardless if it will hurt ... .I might not like what you're telling me but tell me the truth.  SO I got what I asked for ... .

She is going to therapy on a regular basis ... .she has realized that the relationship with her current interest isn't all that and a chocolate cheesecake. She told me that she had to come to the realization on her own. She told me in one conversation this week that he is someone to hang out with, do things with, but he never wants to get married, in addition to a couple of other issues. She was calling and texting every night this week ... .which I found interesting ... .she told me that she can be herself with me, tell me things, because I listen and let her explain what she's feeling. "Your a great listener" ... .he isn't so much. Want's only the facts so we can fix the issue and I don't have to listen to anymore. SOO ... .she called me a couple of nights ago ... .to tell me that she had to tell me something ... .Ok I said. She said that she realized that we were talking & texting every night for the last week plus ... .but she was going to go over to his house for the extended weekend and wouldn't be calling or texting for the next few days ... .and I wanted to tell you that so you didn't wonder what happened to me because I stopped calling.

Now!  I believe this to be a HUGE step in the right direction ... .as much as that knife hurt being twisted between my ribs ... .I realized that it took an amazing amount of courage on her part to tell me ( and I told her as much) she was with him and not spending the weekend with her kids ... .which before I set the boundary this week is what she would of told me. She told me that I wanted to tell you the truth ... .that you deserve that. SO ... .did it hurt ... .yep like a hot knife between the ribs ... .but the more important thing I learned is that she respect me more when i set the boundaries. I have no doubt that she will test all of them from time to time  ... .not unlike that 3 year old when you tell them not to climb the drawers to get to that cookie jar. they will ... .but when you enforce the consequences of those poor choices ... .they will eventually stop ... .at least thats what I'm told, that's what I've read ... .and so far ... .on a limited scale of setting boundaries with her ... .it seems to be working. Soo ... .set a boundary ... .a small one, and see how things progress from there.

He will reach out to you ... .give it some time. IN the mean time ... .YOU GO LIVE YOUR LIFE! Move forward ... .get out do something. GO get lunch with a friend as I did this week. Go on a weekend road trip as I am this coming week to go see some old friends and get caught up. YOU should NOT stop living your life in the mean time.  Love makes us do things we normally wouldn't do ... .

Just this week she texted me something i want so share with the group that I think help ... ."You're amazing in the love you show me by still being here even through my frustration". This was after I had told her that I was learning all I could about BPD ... .I explained to her that I learned about push pull, black white, triangulation, validation, learning how to talk to you so that you don't rage. I've learned that you have a extreme fear of abandonment ... .I've also learned that you don't do this to be mean or on purpose but it's a learned behavior that you had to learn to survive childhood trauma ... .ONE NOTE HERE ... .I didn't really direct it towards her ... .but people who suffered from BPD in general ... .I found that if I didn't direct my comments to her specifically and kept them as a general knowledge of people with BPD and those who love them have BPD ... .she was far more accepting of it. Don't get me wrong ... .as she said in another text, " it was a conversation I didn't want to listen to". She now knows or has a better understanding of the pushing me away because in her world I hurt her ... .i "abandon her and she pushes me away to protect herself from getting hurt again". She's learning ... .I see those moments of clarity ... .but again remember she's been in therapy for about 25 years ... .I've only really been a part of her life for the last 3 years ... .it's a rather steep learning curve.

SOO you are NOT batsh!t crazy ... .you love someone because they do something to you ... .who are we to judge what your heart feels ... .we are here to help you try to make sense of it all ... .to help you in whatever way we can without judging you or your thoughts, feelings ... .

JQ