text message from N/BPDx to S14

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

N/BPDx is not in S14's life anymore, a combination of court order and his choice (to not abide by the court-mandated recommendations).

A week ago, N/BPDx sent a text to S14 that said, "If you can find a secure way to communicate, I have some things to tell you."

What would you advise your kid to do if he or she received a message like that?

[livednlearned]

N/BPDx is not in S14's life anymore, a combination of court order and his choice (to not abide by the court-mandated recommendations).

A week ago, N/BPDx sent a text to S14 that said, "If you can find a secure way to communicate, I have some things to tell you."

What would you advise your kid to do if he or she received a message like that?

[Turkish]

What does your son want to do? Not to say that that should be the driving factor, since he's the kid, and you're the parent. It sounds like his dad violated the court order, no?

[DreamGirl]

Blech.

Because of his dad's history (meltdowns in emails), I'd probably be in contact with him, my attorney, etc. to communicate to dad that this can't happen.

I used to participate in supervising parents who were being reunited with their children. This kind of thing breaks all the rules... .

I'm just reaffirming that this isn't OK, lnl.  

[livednlearned]

I feel like I really lost my compass with this one.

S14 received it.

He showed it to me.

He decided it was the kind of message he doesn't need to respond to -- any message from his dad that makes him feel weird, that's kinda his modus operandi.

Then we had one of those conversations where I over complicate things, and he gets confused, and I get frustrated.

Because I'm confused. There is no court order saying that they can't communicate. I guess... .I feel like S14 is protected. He understands his dad has issues, and he doesn't have to spend time with him. Then, I think I should encourage S14 to stay in touch with his dad. Each year he gets older, he will see his dad in a different way. I was worried that if he cut off contact, he would get stuck emotionally (that's how I confused him).

So I honored S14 by letting him decide what to do (nothing). Then I meddled and made it seem like he was not making the right choice.

Today I was thinking that in a way, his dad managed to put S14 in the middle by not even saying my name.

My kid is really smart about this stuff, and I'm the parent. I feel like I gave him this sense that he was supposed to sort it out.

[Turkish]

Because I'm confused. There is no court order saying that they can't communicate. I guess... .I feel like S14 is protected. He understands his dad has issues, and he doesn't have to spend time with him. Then, I think I should encourage S14 to stay in touch with his dad. Each year he gets older, he will see his dad in a different way. I was worried that if he cut off contact, he would get stuck emotionally (that's how I confused him).

Is that more for you, or for him? The FOG. At 18 or older, maybe more clear. At 14, not so much. No matter how awesome and mature he is, he's still a child. In [his] Idealland, it's where children and Parents all get along, even seperated. Invalidating is where children feel obligated to feel how we think they should towards the OP. I think a green dinosauar taught me that 

Chalk it up to that you are human above all. We aren't perfect. We'll question ourselves. Our kids are also human. Being Mom, there's a lot of grace your son feels towards you. Never stop being his parent, but showing some vulerability will likely teach him even more grace. It shows that you're honest, and human. He'll mirror that. 

[livednlearned]

No matter how awesome and mature he is, he's still a child. In [his] Idealland, it's where children and Parents all get along, even seperated. Invalidating is where children feel obligated to feel how we think they should towards the OP. I think a green dinosauar taught me that 

I do think I meddled. I guess I did invalidate him. At least, I gather that I did because I encouraged him to talk about it with his therapist, who said, "It sounds like the text message is directed to you, but it's really for your parents to sort out. Let them handle it." Meaning, go be a kid, your instincts to ignore the message are good.

Whereas I said, your instincts are good about ignoring the message, maybe you want to think about your entire lifespan and focus on how this moment will impact you until eternity. 

Chalk it up to that you are human above all. We aren't perfect. We'll question ourselves. Our kids are also human. Being Mom, there's a lot of grace your son feels towards you. Never stop being his parent, but showing some vulerability will likely teach him even more grace. It shows that you're honest, and human. He'll mirror that. 

When he came out of his T's office practically bouncing, he was very gentle pointing out that what I said was opposite to what T said. I felt relief because what T said felt so right. It makes me realize how healthy and trusting our relationship is -- I said what I thought, then encouraged S14 to talk to T about. And S14 did that, then reported back. And then we talked about why T's advice was good. I said that I've never raised a 14-year-old boy before and am still working my way through the operating manual   

I think I still have guilt about getting full custody and visitation. 

[Aussie JJ]

LnL,

I would think about taking ut up with ex myself in your situation. 

Dear exN/BPD LnL,

If you want a secure way to talk to S14 here are the contact details for a supervised visitation program.  I am willing to facilitate this as i know it is in S14's best interests that he has a father in his life. 

Regards,

LnL. 


Spider senses going off thechart at that SMS, maybe best to not engage and give him nothing. 

[livednlearned]

Spider senses going off thechart at that SMS, maybe best to not engage and give him nothing. 

Thanks AussieJJ. We seem to be taking the no-action plan.

Sometimes I will be driving along or walking my dog and this sense of shock will come ripping out of nowhere that S14's dad is out of his life. It's so big I can barely get my feelings around it and make heads or tails of what it means, or what to do about it.

I think it's a reminder to me, too, that dealing with FOG is not something that just goes away... .I wish I was better at recognizing the feeling and understanding what's happening when it floats to the surface like that.

Makes me realize that the fear of alienating S14 from his dad has made me second guess my instincts. 

[enlighten me]

Hi LnL

I have had similar situations to this. My sons don't want anything to do with their mum and don't respond to her texts. I try to be as impartial as possible and say its up to them if they want to respond or not. Before they came to live with me she would put them in a position of keeping secrets and they hated this. Private communications where she made sure I couldn't hear them.

The problem I now face is because they wont talk to her she thinks Im stopping them from contacting her.

You may end up being accused of parental alienation or filtering the communication. I know my ex is escalating things and has got a lawyer involved but I don't know how far she is willing to take it. She is on dodgy ground and could end up losing everything but pwBPD don't seem to see the consequences until things are too late.

[livednlearned]

Hi enlighten me,

I'm sorry your sons are in the same position.  :'(

Actually, I don't know if it's good or bad -- that's the problem. No contact is tricky, and contact even more so. When both options are bad, it's hard to know what is good.

I've been accused of filtering communication and alienation -- none of it stuck with the judge. N/BPDx was actually a compelling witness for my case. He kept saying that S14 would run to the door and say hi to N/BPDx, hug him, and always turned around and waved before getting in my car. This was to impress upon the judge that S14 loved his dad more than me. The judge listened to the whole testimony and all the evidence and then said, "If he feels that way about you, which I don't doubt he does, then that's not alienation."

Like your ex, N/BPDx was on thin ice and kept making things worse for himself. When the judge was deliberating about whether to terminate visitation, he put his head down in his hands for a good, long 5-7 minutes. I think he was praying about what to do.

Thanks for listening. I needed to get my head straight about this.

The complication to all this is that I'm not in contact with my (narcissistic) dad. I keep thinking one day I'll get That Email saying he is sick. I am probably putting my own feelings on S14, but is that a bad thing when it comes to this?

[enlighten me]

Hi LnL

Its difficult to avoid putting your own feelings across. Im also worried about the boys in years to come finding out bad news about their mum and beating themselves up over it. All we can do is support them and respect their feelings.

Im torn between trying to reconcile them with their mum and protecting them. I know and so do they that no matter what she says or does she will slip back into her bad behaviour and we will be back to square one.

I have been fortunate (a mixed blessing) to have had a uBPDexgf since splitting with their mum so I was able to educate them about BPD and mental health issues in a way that when everything blew up and they started asking questions I could tell them that I believed their mum like my ex probably had BPD. It was a real light bulb moment for them. There was a minutes silence and then they spent half an hour comparing the similarities in my exs behaviour. They realised that they both did the same things.

By breaching the subject of PDs with them I have been able to be compassionate about why their mum did the things she did and they understand that she just cant help it. That said though they haven't forgiven her and are still angry. One day I hope that they will be less bitter.

[livednlearned]

One day I hope that they will be less bitter.

This is really it for me in a nutshell, enlighten me.

I can see that my son is very avoidant -- he is a really likable kid, but he shuns people when they reach out. He's even said he doesn't know why he does it and knows that his behavior is opposite of what he wants.

[Turkish]

One day I hope that they will be less bitter.

This is really it for me in a nutshell, enlighten me.

I can see that my son is very avoidant -- he is a really likable kid, but he shuns people when they reach out. He's even said he doesn't know why he does it and knows that his behavior is opposite of what he wants.

I was like this into my 30s 

I probably brought some of this into my r/s with uBPDx, which isn't a good trait when with a pwBPD.

[livednlearned]

One day I hope that they will be less bitter.

This is really it for me in a nutshell, enlighten me.

I can see that my son is very avoidant -- he is a really likable kid, but he shuns people when they reach out. He's even said he doesn't know why he does it and knows that his behavior is opposite of what he wants.

I was like this into my 30s 

I probably brought some of this into my r/s with uBPDx, which isn't a good trait when with a pwBPD.

To a lesser extent than S14, I did this too.

I know I blunted my emotions growing up in a dysfunctional family. It made me tougher, but less empathetic. Not intentionally, I just didn't know my way around emotions.

I'm trying to work on this with validation, of my own feelings, and of S14's.

It sure is a slow process, like glacial slow. I notice that S14 feels ambivalent about seeing the T, yet likes him. T says that S14 is "tolerating" it, but that he is largely uncomfortable being there in such an intimate setting, with T asking him how he feels about things (often he doesn't know). This is in such contrast to the "big feelings" (my description) that S14 used to have as a kid.

It's part of what I thought I was doing when I talked to S14 about the text message. I was trying to figure out what was really going on, still struggling to feel empathy in these situations -- I sometimes get thinky and try to analyze what is "right"

[Nope]

The complication to all this is that I'm not in contact with my (narcissistic) dad. I keep thinking one day I'll get That Email saying he is sick. I am probably putting my own feelings on S14, but is that a bad thing when it comes to this?

Yes, and here's why: You are an adult and have been an adult for many years and even have a child of your own. You are in a totally different place than your son is mentally and emotionally.

I deal with the same thing having had a mentally ill mother and I have to remind myself that I am capable of so much insight that I could never have had as a child. And honestly I wouldn't have wanted to have that much insight then because I was too busy being completely self absorbed and trying to figure out who I was. By the time I was a teenager I only thought about what was going on for my parents when it was pushed on me by one of them. Unless outside pressure was applied I never really felt like anything had to be solved *right now*. The sense of urgency to fix things with our screwed up parent doesn't come until later.

When your son's T told him to go be a kid and not worry about it he was happy because she told him to go do what he wants to do. Yes, he loves both his parents but it sounds like he doesn't want anyone making anything more difficult on him. He knows the kind of things he would be likely to hear in secure communications with his dad. He's not interested in hearing them because he wants to think about himself and his own life. Not get sucked into dad's drama.

[livednlearned]

Thanks Nope.   

I realized, too, that if and when S14's dad gets sick, or something happens to him, that moment will be just as appropriate to process and resolve grief and sadness as any other moment.