doesn't know who he is

[Depression = 72% of members]

I have no idea which board to post this on -- or even which board I want to be on. My pwBPD told me he doesn't know who he is. What does that mean? What does it feel like to not know who you are?

[Narkiss]

I have no idea which board to post this on -- or even which board I want to be on. My pwBPD told me he doesn't know who he is. What does that mean? What does it feel like to not know who you are?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Akita]

Not sure what you like or dislike.  Not sure what your style is.  Not sure what you enjoy and what youre doing because someone else enjoys it.  Nothing is yours.  You are connected to nothing.  Not sure if you made choices because someone else thought it was a good idea.  Not sure how to really determine if something is a good idea.  If there were no other people around you would have a hard time deciding what to do.  There is a lot of doubt... .Do I really enjoy watching sports?  Why am I watching this?  Why do I do this?  It's hard to see how other people see you.  It is impossible to tell if someone truly likes you or hates you.  You feel the nothingness and feel that everyone must hate you because you are the nothingness... .why would someone love nothing?  Why would someone even like nothing?  You cant trust.  You just float along and know anything can happen to you because you have nothing to hold on to. 

This is just my take on it.

[Narkiss]

Is there anything to do/say to help them develop a sense of self?

[Akita]

That's probably a million dollar question.  My wife's therapist has tasks for her to do.  One is shopping for clothes and picking out stuff SHE likes.  The theory is my wife is using a sister to mimic.  If the sister would also like the clothes item, my wife can't buy it.  I think he is trying to create separation.  My wife and her sister are extremely close.  I don't know what the next task is because she is currently baulking at doing the first task.  She also recently cancelled all her appointments with her therapist.  She is struggling to see the point in therapy.  He was attempting to help her with self harm but he gave that up.  She is feeling very discouraged, so unfortunately I can't help beyond the original task he gave her.

[waverider]

Not sure what you like or dislike.  Not sure what your style is.  Not sure what you enjoy and what youre doing because someone else enjoys it.  Nothing is yours.  You are connected to nothing.  Not sure if you made choices because someone else thought it was a good idea.  Not sure how to really determine if something is a good idea.  If there were no other people around you would have a hard time deciding what to do.  There is a lot of doubt... .Do I really enjoy watching sports?  Why am I watching this?  Why do I do this?  It's hard to see how other people see you.  It is impossible to tell if someone truly likes you or hates you.  You feel the nothingness and feel that everyone must hate you because you are the nothingness... .why would someone love nothing?  Why would someone even like nothing?  You cant trust.  You just float along and know anything can happen to you because you have nothing to hold on to. 

This is just my take on it.

This is pretty much it like a parrot holding a mirror.

They can say the words, but the ideas dont stick almost as if they just loaned them for a while because someone told them they should.

A lot of it is a lack of continuity, they are impulsively reaction to emotions of the moment rather than an established set of values.

Often acting like a chameleon in an attempt to fit in, or to appear appropriate, even if they miss the mark.

This why the idealization phase is such a big draw to them as they have a fresh bunch of ideas and opinions to borrow.

This copying is as much wishful thinking on their part, they want to adopt and believe in these things, not just fake it. But the feeling doesn't run deep enough and so slips away when they are left to pursue it under their own motivation.

A sense of self comes from personal achievements purely from their own efforts. Hence not overly aiding them to achieve, but only support. Dont over praise or they start doing things to receive praise not for their own pride. The motivation gets skewed

[Narkiss]

Yes, over the year i have seen some of that even in an extreme form (he talked about converting to my religion). He once told me he wants to find someone whose life he can become part of. But he writes beautiful and creative stories and poems, and they are good. He has interesting ideas about things and likes the arts -- this predates me.

I guess I have trouble wrapping my head around it. I think when I was younger I tended toward that though. I'd agree with people because I brought up not to contradict and adopt their affect (energized and outgoing around extroverts, etc). I'd fall into things (sometimes wonderful things) instead of deciding what I wanted. So I imagine it must be something like but far far worse and it makes me ill thinking that he is going through life that way.

[Akita]

I believe you are right Narkiss, it is a sad existence.  It feels very lonely.  You don't belong to anything. I guess I agree with wave... .support them in their endeavors.  One problem might be choosing something to pursue, and then wondering whose idea it really was.  There is a lot of doubt about motivation.  She wonders if she really liked it or did she like it because someone she liked enjoyed it.  She feels like nothing belongs to her, she cant determine if she originated something or if it came from elsewhere.  Instead of considering things she just impulsively buys.  I definitely need help in this area.  How do you help someone gain their own opinions and tastes?  She is sensitive to how things feel and taste, so she is extremely rigid in what she will eat and where she will eat.  She also considers how clothes feel as she can't stand some fabrics.  Any advice on this issue would be great!

[waverider]

I think some pwBPD often naturally gravitate towards the fields of theater and sales, as they are very comfortable in adopting roles and instant mirroring and being fleetingly genuinely at one with the role and their audience.

what can we do to help them develop and own their own self?

All I can think of them is ask them how a particular activity  makes them FEEL as opposed to do the like it. It is to easy to say you like something if you think you are supposed to. If however you have to express how it makes you feel it makes a person think deeper about it and own the associated feeling.

That said there is only so much you can do as it is part of the underdeveloped personality.

To add to the instability because their likes and dislikes are often adopted from others, and others fall in and and out of favor, then so too can the adopted interests, creating a ripple affect on their own sense of self.

A sudden shift in their interest is often a heads up that someone else has drifted into their field of interest as they start to mirror that person.

[Narkiss]

Akita: have you thought that something else is going on with her? She sounds like she has sensory issues.

In general, though, how can they even be sure they like/love/want us, if they don't even know what they themselves like/love/want? Is this why they plow through so many people? Mine has told me that he just wants to make other people happy. I always took this as an insincere, smarmy comment, especially given his treatment of me. Maybe he was serious. He wants to please other people because he does not know what will please him.

[mywifecrazy]

Not sure what you like or dislike.  Not sure what your style is.  Not sure what you enjoy and what youre doing because someone else enjoys it.  Nothing is yours.  You are connected to nothing.  Not sure if you made choices because someone else thought it was a good idea.  Not sure how to really determine if something is a good idea.  If there were no other people around you would have a hard time deciding what to do.  There is a lot of doubt... .Do I really enjoy watching sports?  Why am I watching this?  Why do I do this?  It's hard to see how other people see you.  It is impossible to tell if someone truly likes you or hates you.  You feel the nothingness and feel that everyone must hate you because you are the nothingness... .why would someone love nothing?  Why would someone even like nothing?  You cant trust.  You just float along and know anything can happen to you because you have nothing to hold on to. 

This is just my take on it.

I have to be honest that's the best description of a pwBPD's emptiness that I've ever heard. I remember one night out of nowhere my BPDxw saying she feels empty like there's a hole inside of her. I didn't know or understand what she was talking about. Maybe I do a little now. Thank you.

[waverider]

In general, though, how can they even be sure they like/love/want us, if they don't even know what they themselves like/love/want? Is this why they plow through so many people? Mine has told me that he just wants to make other people happy. I always took this as an insincere, smarmy comment, especially given his treatment of me. Maybe he was serious. He wants to please other people because he does not know what will please him.

Because you are meeting their needs of the moment. They want their needs met.

They want to make other people happy so they will like them in return. They want to be liked, they seek validation. This can then loop back into the former point. We often wanted to be liked and validated too when we first met them which made us vulnerable to this cycle.

[Narkiss]

I was so vulnerable to this. When we met, I was so unhappy and empty and lonely. I sensed this hole in him and was willing to fill it but never could. I guess it also explains why he seems to be unable/unwilling to truly separate from his wife, like he has said over and over again. He doesn't know what he wants. He doesn't know who he is. He doesn't know who he wants to be with. I know this but it's still so hard to step back and emotionally understand. Is there anyway to help him?

[Akita]

Mywifecrazy

You're welcome.  I simply asked my wife about it as that was a current therapy topic.  She became visibly upset and cried while telling me about these feelings.

Sensory issues

I just think she is sensitive in more than one way.  Emotionally and physically.  Not sure what else it could mean.  Open to opinions on the matter if anyone would care to share.

[Narkiss]

Akita: Is it hard to be with someone like this?

[Akita]

Yes, it's frustrating.

[Akita]

It's hard when you don't know what will upset them.  She doesn't even know what will trigger her.  One day she can joke about something and the next day she will be hurt if I joke about it.  She easily gets obsessed with things.  For instance, restaurants... .She wants to eat at the same one over and over and over. She orders the same item over and over and over.  I don't think she can see my side of things or understand how she hurts me.there are activities she does : snowboarding and dirt biking, but she's not sure if she likes them or likes them because other people in her family like them.  We are trying to come up with some summer activities we can do together.  We shall see what we come up with.

[Narkiss]

I don't think they can really see our side or really understand. I think their feelings are so overwhelming they start thinking their whole existence depends on it. When I would hear mine begin to say, "I have to be selfish and think of myself," I would feel panicky and my stomach would get tied up in knots, because I knew what was coming -- a broken promise... .And usually the overwhelming feeling of the minute would have very little to do with reality, which would make it even more anxiety-provoking and frustrating and heart-breaking for me, because my life would be turned upside down for something that would exist only in his head.

[Akita]

Sometimes I feel that if I really love her I can avoid triggering her.  I can stop hurting her.  I just need to listen more carefully.  Pay attention to body language.  Read more about BPD.  I refuse to do these things.  I feel she is manipulative.  When she cries I ignore.  When she moves away from me I let her go.  She is in therapy... .for now... .she needs to fix herself.  She isn't trying IMHO... .if the treatment doesn't suit her I think she refuses to do it.  She denies this.  Says I don't help her.  Says I don't understand her.  She doesn't understand me or herself.  I'm just not sure what to do.

[Narkiss]

There is no way to avoid triggering. You can tie yourself into knots trying to validate and trying to not to trigger, and you still won't succeed because you cannot know all their triggers and they don't know either. Also, I worry that although validation makes the relationship go smoother, it can also have the effect of validating their selfishness and leading them to think you agree with them.

In December, mine told me he would do something for me. When I asked him about it, he told me that he could not talk about it because he had to eat his breakfast. I told him that he could eat and talk at the same. Apparently this phrase was something his first wife said during a conversation that did not go well. He thought I somehow knew that and said it deliberately to hurt him. How was I supposed to know? Eventually, he realized that I didn't say it on purpose and he forgot about it. I did not. I do not know what I will do either.

[Herodias]

Mine told me the same thing... .he didn't know who he was. He also told me he wished he could just be alone. I think he was jealous I could do it so easily. Not sure how to help them, because they they think we are just telling them the answer we want them to have. That's hard... .who really does know who they are totally? We are all learning all the time.

[Akita]

I don't know how to help them.  Is yours in therapy?  Are you in therapy?  Any medications?  Mine was on celexa but abruptly stopped.  Now she has to be referred out of her therapist's office because no one there will take on her case.  I wish I could tell you how to help him with his identify, I'm fairly certain only a therapist can pull that rabbit out of a hat.  My wife has talked about different versions of herself.  If she has a change... .job... house... .someone getting married... .She feels like she has lost part of who she thought she was and can't get back to that person.  She can't identify what exactly is gone just that she feels like part is missing.  I guess her identity gets attached to lots of details in her life... .concrete details like houses and possessions.  She clings to objects and hoards them.  It is really hard for her to let them go.

[Narkiss]

I am in therapy. He is not. I asked him last weekend if he would go, and he said yes. There are all kind of complications to that happening. He is leaving/losing a job and will be moving, probably not here. He is not on medication. I was on welbutrin (yes, this relationship has driven me so crazy that I began seeing a therapist and taking anti-depressants). I posted the same question on a site for people with BPD. They said that DBT and other therapies can help manage emotions, but they don't think it can give them an identity, that they are identity-less.

Mine seems to hoard possessions also (I never thought about it like that, that they are part of his identity). He has things in storage lockers all over the country, books, furniture, etc., and has been utterly unwilling to get rid of anything even though the storage is costing a lot of money. 

[Herodias]

They say medications don't change anything. Only if they have anxiety, but mine ended up abusing Xanax. he was on an anti depressant and he was the best anyone had ever seen him... .but it was a new drug and then the next thing you knew, he was sick in the hospital with sepsis and they took him off of everything. I don't know what to think of the drugs. Once you start your body gets hooked and you cannot do with out. I would only take them in extreme cases. BPD is more of a disorder that needs cognitive direction. The problem is that they don't trust anyone enough to let them be guided in the right direction.  Not sure hoarding is part of BPD since mine was unattached to anything. I think hoarding is a whole other disorder. The sad part is that they do have personalities, at least I know my husband does. I know what he really likes and doesn't... .but he gets bored too easy, so he was always looking for something else to excite him. Can't be content to just be... .There is a song by 3 Doors Down that my husband used to listen to all the time when I met him... .It's called "Be somebody"... .The words are, " I am just trying to be somebody, I am not trying to be somebody else. This life is mine I am living, don't you know me, I will never let you down"... .I think allot of the songs on that album resinated with him that I now understand. Another one was ... "Behind those eyes you lie"... .Interesting. I think because they lie so much, they lose who they really are and since they can compartmentalize, they just become different with different people. This continues the path of loss of oneself.

[Narkiss]

Yes, I have heard that medication really doesn't work for this one. I went off of the anti-depressants. Although it was working, I wasn't sure what I was actually feeling and started thinking that I have stayed in this relationship longer than I should have because my emotions were smoothed over and needed to really start feeling awful again. And I do.

[waverider]

Sometimes I feel that if I really love her I can avoid triggering her.  I can stop hurting her. 

Minimizing triggering where you can is good, but it is not always possible and it certainly should not be done to the detriment to yourself.

The real damage however is done in the way your instincts cause you to react to them being triggered.

The trigger is the spark but your reaction is the fuel source.

Starving a fire of fuel is the most effective way of containing it.

[waverider]

Yes, I have heard that medication really doesn't work for this one. I went off of the anti-depressants. Although it was working, I wasn't sure what I was actually feeling and started thinking that I have stayed in this relationship longer than I should have because my emotions were smoothed over and needed to really start feeling awful again. And I do.

PwBPD are in the high risk category of misuse of meds, either addiction or skipping. Meds may take the edge of some of the symptoms, but that is not enough for the immediate gratification of black and white thinkers

[Akita]

Yes waverider I agree... .mine with celexa upped the dose on her own and then decided it didn't work and quit cold turkey.  Now she is referred to a different clinic as she has been labelled noncompliant and no one will take her case.  She was hurt by this and still is... .very rejected.  Feels like no one really wants to help her, including me.  She had made a friend off Facebook through a DBT group.  They are both borderline.  There was miscommunication silent treatment on both sides and now unfriended.  My wife was devastated.  She really felt connected.  Even though she would stop talking to this other lady she took the complete loss really hard.  She had felt less alone and even understood.  I don't know if anyone has experienced borderlines being friends with borderlines but my wife really enjoyed her friend even though she was often confused or hurt by her friend.

[waverider]

  I don't know if anyone has experienced borderlines being friends with borderlines but my wife really enjoyed her friend even though she was often confused or hurt by her friend.

i dont encourage this, there is a lot of invalidating the invalid creating strong bonds then head on clashes creating extreme opposite reactions.

Unfortunate this prevents many pwBPD  from getting the same stabilizing influence that peer group support provides for us.

[Narkiss]

Akita: has she ever considered posting on a forum for people with BPD? There are some pretty self-aware border lines out there and they keep the tone supportive

[Akita]

She hasn't found one she likes.  BPD sites are too slow and she feels like they mostly want to talk about themselves and not actually help anyone.  She is on a Facebook DBT group even though she quit DBT.

[Narkiss]

I've actually posted on the BPD section of Psychforums.com. I've asked borderlines for advice.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Akita]

How did that go?

[Daisy23]

Akita's description definitely helps me understand my BPDh better. Thanks!

[Akita]

Hi Daisy

How did it help?  What description?

[Narkiss]

Akita: In one sense, it went pretty well. I got some serious, straight answers to my questions and several borderlines pm-ed me with advice. You seem pretty spot-on with you explanation of how they lack a sense of self (I can send you what they said, if you'd like). In another, it was really upsetting. The emptiness and hollowness some of them feel made me want to cry. Also, the self-absorption and lack of object constancy. One very nice lady told me that actually it seemed my pwBPD cared about me very much, and if I could put up with the broken promises, the chaos and carrying most of the weight of the relationship, I would be loved more than I was ever loved before -- because that is their talent.

[Akita]

Narkiss

I'm sure it was spot on.  It was my BPDw saying it.  I'm glad you got some insight on the other forum.  I may venture over there myself.  We're they reasonable to discuss things with or were they easily offended?

[Narkiss]

Pretty reasonable. I offended one of them, but he was right -- what I said sounded stupid and condescending. I think it works best if you describe a situation and ask what's going on/what to do -- or just ask a question.

[Akita]

That's great Narkiss.  I dont know if mine would make use of it.  Can they help each other?  My wife had a friend BPD friend from a FB DBT group and that blew up in her face.  I dont know if she would be willing to risk befriending BPD ppl again.

[Cat Familiar]

My husband described his feelings as "not being real". He often says that people don't treat him like a "real person". I'm not sure what that means, but he definitely lights up when people cater to him and he's often hurt when people don't treat him like a BFF when he thinks they should. He seeks to be friends with high status people who generally have tons of friends and social engagements, then gets his feelings hurt when they don't reciprocate as much as he thinks they should.

The lack of object constancy leads him to ask me if I even "care about him at all" which used to really offend me before I understood as much.

[Akita]

My wife tells me I dont care about her and states the reasons why.  She will also ask if I love her and want reasons why.  She often tells me I dont love her or I wouldnt treat her how I do.  With all of this happening I dont understand why she stays with me.  All she says is that she loves me.  Unless she hates me, then she says she hates me.  She seems convinced that I married her for money and sex.  She does have a decent job but she isnt a sexual person.  I just dont know how to prove those arent my reasons.  I get really frustrated by the flip flopping of feelings and not being able to communicate how she feels and why.  I dont know if this is related to her not having a strong sense of self or not... .  if you dont know yourself you cant love yourself and if you cant love yourself how can you love someone else?  Confusing... .

[waverider]

My husband described his feelings as "not being real". He often says that people don't treat him like a "real person". I'm not sure what that means, but he definitely lights up when people cater to him and he's often hurt when people don't treat him like a BFF when he thinks they should. He seeks to be friends with high status people who generally have tons of friends and social engagements, then gets his feelings hurt when they don't reciprocate as much as he thinks they should.

The lack of object constancy leads him to ask me if I even "care about him at all" which used to really offend me before I understood as much.

I think they project their own levels of closeness onto others, and when they dont match it causes distress. eg if they are idealizing someone because of some imaginary perception of the other person, then they expect the same back.  This then leads to them feeling like they are not being treated appropriately.

[Cat Familiar]

I think they project their own levels of closeness onto others, and when they dont match it causes distress. eg if they are idealizing someone because of some imaginary perception of the other person, then they expect the same back.  This then leads to them feeling like they are not being treated appropriately.



Good point, waverider! I've seen a pattern of him getting offended when he has been invited to dinner by the couple he considers to be his "best friends" and then discovering there are other guests there too. And lately the invitations and phone calls are less frequent. Perhaps it's because he doesn't make an effort to socialize much with their friends at parties they throw. He's told me that their group of friends are "full of themselves" and he's not interested in hanging out with them--just with the couple.

I've had a good time with people I've spent time with at these parties, and I wasn't sure what he objects to, other than he has to share his friends with others, but your summation makes sense of it.

[Akita]

My BPDw avoids socializing at all.  She gets anxious if we need to go to my family members house for a holiday or birthday.  She always tells me they hate her.  She says they see her as useless.  After a couple hours she is ready to leave.  She gets on her phone a lot to avoid conversation because she says they don't talk about anything she can talk about.  I would like for her to enjoy spending time with my family.  I'm not sure how to help her feel more welcome and comfortable.

[Narkiss]

Akita: Most of the BPDs on these boards are going through some kind of therapy and seem pretty self-aware. They post how they feel and seem pretty supportive of each other -- not very argumentative. I don't know if she'll find friendship exactly, but she'll find people who feel like she does.

Narkiss

[waverider]

My BPDw avoids socializing at all.  She gets anxious if we need to go to my family members house for a holiday or birthday.  She always tells me they hate her.  She says they see her as useless.  After a couple hours she is ready to leave.  She gets on her phone a lot to avoid conversation because she says they don't talk about anything she can talk about.  I would like for her to enjoy spending time with my family.  I'm not sure how to help her feel more welcome and comfortable.

Ditto here, my wife calls her family the whole time, almost like an obsessive pest to be honest. Face to face causes extreme anxiety, and a family function with them altogether is a total no go.

Other social groups are hard, but doable, but the feeling of being seen as the family failure is too much

[Meadowslark]

This is a great topic and I think it's very enlightening to nons to see somewhat how pwBPD think and feel.

While my pwBPD isn't a romantic partner, I stumbled upon her writings on this topic (completely by accident, it's its own story, but this is not a diary and is out in public). This is my sister, writing about what her thoughts and feelings are and her lack of identity:

"... .I don't enjoy anything now and there's no evidence that I'll somehow start enjoying things in the future. Now is the only period of time that I am living in... ."

"... .I'm lost in this perpetual cluster(eff) of thoughts. I feel awful about myself, my friends love me, I feel awful about not internalizing that... ."

"... .I know my friends feel just as helpless as I do about all of this... ."

The rest is very difficult to read (and cope with) so I won't post it, but I think this is some very rare insight on her part. She is not in therapy and does not take medication. All of her friends are online, so she too avoids socializing (in person).

[Akita]

Mine is never sure of love.  She believes if the person isn't there and isn't thinking about her then that person doesn't love her.  She feels the same.  If you aren't there and she isn't thinking about you she doesn't love you.  Love isn't constant for her.  I tried to tell her that love is always there but she disagrees.  She even talked to her psychologist about it and family members.  They were similar to my opinion but that didn't help her.  In my opinion small problems make her feel looked down on, I try to explain to her other people's motives but she can't see it and continues to be hurt.  I wonder if having a better sense of self would help this.

[Narkiss]

Another question I asked was how they can be so self aware yet feel that don't have a sense of self. Isn't self awareness identity? Any thoughts?

[Meadowslark]

Another question I asked was how they can be so self aware yet feel that don't have a sense of self. Isn't self awareness identity? Any thoughts?

I think the self-awareness for each pwBPD is dependent upon so many factors, so I can only speak of my sister's case. She has fleeting, very brief moments of lucidity and self-awareness. We have no idea what causes them to come and go. There was a brief moment during Xmastime 2015 where she admitted the BPD diagnosis she got the year before fits her. The lucidity was gone after a few hours. I think the illness has a severe grip on her and she does not struggle to get free (as in, go to therapy, work on herself, take responsibility, etc). The stuff I posted above was written in February of this year.

She would ask me how I knew I liked something. I remember her coming into my room in the apartment we shared years ago and I was listening to music. She asked me how I knew I liked it. I didn't know about BPD at the time, and told her, "I just do?" Truly unable to answer the question. I know now that wasn't the right answer, or even necessarily what she was asking about. With BPD, a lot of times you have to read between the lines.

In response to your question, I don't think self-awareness and a sense of self are necessarily the same thing with BPD. One can be aware of one's lack of self. I am aware that I like Chinese food and electronic music. My sister is aware that she has no idea of her basic likes and dislikes, let alone more esoteric things like hopes, dreams and aspirations.

I think even these brief moments of lucidity are terrifying to someone with BPD. Perhaps they become so acutely aware that something fundamental like a sense of self is missing in them, and that may cause them to dive so deeply into the illness that it was like the lucidity was never there to begin with.

Imagine waking up one day and being adrift in space with no point of reference for anything. I imagine that's what it's like to be self-aware and have BPD. When you aren't aware, it's like you're floating in space, but you're asleep. The lack of surroundings don't bother you - you're not even aware of them.

When you're aware, you're the astronaut who woke up and realized he has no idea where the rocket ship is, or where the crew is. How did you end up here? Where do you go? How do you get home? What is home? I imagine that kind of terror is what having BPD is like.

(Sorry for the ramble!)

[Akita]

I believe pwBPD are aware of their feelings.  Like love or hate.  They are aware of those and the feelings are strong so maybe that is why they act on them or cant let them come and go.  Feelings are their anchors so they hold on tight.  My wife gets obsessed with things.  She plays the same games, watches the same shows, and eats the same food.  She hates change.  She holds onto things she is familiar with.  Same as in exact episodes and the food is made the exact same way.  If she goes without familiar food it is very distressing to her.  Sometimes she doesn't even enjoy what she eats but it is familiar so she craves it for the familiarity.  She just latches on to certain things and doesn't branch out.  She buys clothes her sister would like or approve of.  She knows she does all this, but that doesn't mean she can stop or even wants to stop.  She feels like an alien.  She hates looking in people's eyes because they may see her emptiness or see that something is wrong with her.  She can't just decide that she is empty so she should fill herself up.  How would she do that?  Randomly choose to like things?  How do you know you like something?  How does liking something make you feel like a complete person?  How do you just decide how you feel about things?  If you have no conviction how do you suddenly get conviction?  She experiences things and the experiences create feelings and then she responds to the feelings.  Before hand she may have had no idea how she would feel about it.  She has even said to me she won't know if she will like something until it happens.  She does however enjoy activities that create an intense feeling like amusement parks and doing illegal activities.  I just don't know how this can create a sense of identity.  She was convinced by 4 people that she has BPD though it was a struggle.  She has always felt broken.  Is this her identity?  She is aware of many problems, but she can't get a hold of them.  She wants to stop cutting but she can't fight the urge.  Maybe she clings to the cutting because she is familiar with it and that feels like apart of her?  She wanted to be sure of the diagnosis so she could feel like she wasn't alone but she also didn't want to be in the wrong group.  She dislikes what she reads online about BPD so I think she was hoping someone would change to a different diagnosis, they did not and she has accepted it as far as I know.   

[Narkiss]

It sounds like a terrible existence. i do not know how to wrap my head around this.

Here is the million dollar question for me: if they do not know what they like, how do they know whom they love or want to be with?

[Meadowslark]

It sounds like a terrible existence. i do not know how to wrap my head around this.

Here is the million dollar question for me: if they do not know what they like, how do they know whom they love or want to be with?

It's a very terrible existence. My sister is a writer and her ability to exude and explain her misery in writing is incredible. I fully believe she is suffering 24/7.

if they do not know what they like, how do they know whom they love or want to be with? I don't have the million dollar answer, but I do have the $500k theory - they don't.

Much of their existence happens in a reality that is not our own - they have internal expectations that don't match with reality, perceptions of things that may or may not even be happening, reactions that bewilder us Nons. It's the mental gymnastics of disordered thinking, and pwBPD tend to be Olympians.

They may perceive you as an answer to their problems, an escape from their trauma, you could be a meal ticket or anything else. I'm positive that they are capable of loving someone else, perhaps even more deeply than a Non, but they are unable to keep it stable. Their disordered thinking and impulsive actions are driven by inner turmoil the likes of which many of us can't even comprehend. We're split from Saint to Sinner at a breakneck speed, we go from "love of their life" to "axe-murdering puppy-kicker" and it seems as though the love never existed.

I truly believe that when they say they want to be with you or love you, that there is some kernel of truth to it. But again, take everything with a grain of salt - it all depends on the pwBPD.

[waverider]

A lifetime of this means a lifetime of annoying everyone around them. So if everyone always ultimately gets annoyed at them how can they ever feel like they are worth anything?

After all facades may fool others for a while, but to that individual it is no more than wishful thinking. That is all they have to hang on to though. So they are effectively trying to force these false realities onto themselves as that is all they have.

Stripping these false realities and dysfunctional coping mechanisms away can create a collapse. Hence why therapy has to be tailored specifically for BPD, and why it often fails as they suffer anxiety breakdowns following treatments.

[Akita]

I agree waverider.  My wife often tells me she feels worthless.  She also talks about being annoying and everyone hating her.  She isolates herself socially so she won't have to worry about rejection.  The tiny things speak the truth to her.  She looks for proof of people caring or not, she remembers comments people make and adds her own meaning to it because that is how whatever happened made her feel.

We have had the discussion about why she stays with me when I cause her such pain.  She says she feels connected to me.  I'm the one.  She understands that she is fragile and that I have a hard time not upsetting her.  She is broken but I can mend her soul.  I'm her anchor.  She tells me her hell was here before I came and it will remain if I go.  I just ignite the underlying feelings that are always there swirling.  When she feels love for me it is like she is part of me she says.  When she feels hate she wants me gone and doesn't know why she married me.  This is hard on both of us.  As far as her likes and dislikes go... .she is patterned after her siblings.  She knows this.  She fears that nothing belongs to her.  If she lost her memory of her family and was in an abandoned city I don't think she would know what to do with herself... .how to amuse herself... .what to eat... .she looks to her family for approval and does what they do.  She doesn't know how to tell if she actually enjoyed something, or if she enjoyed it because people she cares about enjoyed it.  She does like intense things such as amusement parks and illegal activities.  Her family shares this though so who knows.  She hates when her perception is challenged.  If something hurt her then it was a hurtful event and there is no explaining motives to change her mind.  She doesn't even know what will hurt her though, one day it may be fine and the next day she can't believe you did that.  It is all really confusing to everyone.  She hates change.  She eats the same foods made the same way.  She watches the same shows even repeats of episodes.  She plays the same games.  She gets comfort from the sameness.  She saw a lot of her family in me.  Maybe that was the attraction.  I like and do the same type of things her family does.  They are in construction and so am I.  I like sports so do they.  I am very casual and so are they.  Aside from her parents they are not overly religious and neither am I.  This maybe the connection she felt for me.  She has also told me I am kind and calm.  She was drawn to my calmness.  I believe she does love me.  Yes, I cause hate to surface but underneath it I think she does love me.

[waverider]

A pwBPD can hate to love

And love to hate

Dependency vs vulnerability

Thats part of being an emotion junkie...

[C.Stein]

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