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Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Conflicted About Continuing, Divorcing/Custody, Co-parenting => Topic started by: tarantula17 on December 26, 2015, 11:10:35 PM



Title: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: tarantula17 on December 26, 2015, 11:10:35 PM
My husband has bipolar and BPD.  He self-harms, and has cut, burned and hit himself quite a few times over the last few months.  A few nights ago, he tried overdosing on a new prescription he was trying out (and stopped taking them thankfully and thankfully was stabilized by paramedics who showed up at his mom's house where he was staying).

On December 6th, he was in an emotional rage and not only cut his face open by hitting himself with his fist, he took my hands and put them to his throat, then started making choking noises.  I had my hands on his chest trying to push past him in the hall to get outside and get help.  I ended up closing my hands when he made the noises, realizing with horror and fear that he was using ME to hurt HIM.  When I managed to pull away from him (he left bruises on my hands from holding me so tightly to him) he yelled 'Hit me! Hit me!' and I yelled 'No!' and ran outside to call 911.  Not before he managed to wipe some blood on my left arm.  I am not a professional therapist or anything, but I had this feeling afterwards that he was trying to prove the very person he trusts the most is willing to hurt and abandon him like all the other people in his life.  But I wouldn't intentionally hurt him - part of that was the way we were raised, that violence isn't the answer, and part of it is my messed up fight or flight response due to fibromyalgia.  Anything stressful or dramatic and I want to get away from it as fast as humanely possible.

The police showed up and arrested me.  I didn't know until my arraignment (never been to jail before or run in with the law, so this was all new to me) that me closing my fists had left scratch marks on my husband's neck, so the police thought I tried to choke him and hit him. 

How do I prove my innocence, my character and still maintain the dignity of my very ashamed, embarrassed husband?  While in an emotional rage, he told them I did hurt him and then in a wash of abandonment issues seeing them haul me off, he told them he did in fact hurt himself.  I am worried I will lose my kids, do prison time for the felony they are charging me with, my husband may try to commit suicide again, we will lose our housing, etc.  I am professionally trained as a chronic pain advocate because I did work with the chronic pain community for years (I am very community-minded), but this boggles me and I am severely worn out with this all.  I can't afford a lawyer for the trial January 8th, so I have a public defender.

Advice?


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: ForeverDad on December 27, 2015, 12:42:01 PM
Well, look at the title of your thread.  Frankly, you can't be worried about his dignity when he got you sent to jail.  Sorry, that's priority kicking in, once he endangered your safety and peace (and clean record) then you have to step back and re-examine the relationship.  While yes a person may make sacrifices for a relationship to get past hard times, you cannot sacrifice yourself.  Does that make sense?  He has LONG TERM issues, they aren't going away.

First, you need to get past this current legal problem, then you need to step back and honestly ask yourself why you're risking yourself and your future for him.

Did you get photos taken of the bruises on your wrists that he causes?  If not, then get them taken now.

When you appear in court you need to have as much documentation as possible about his pattern of poor behaviors, his medical history, arrests, etc.  No holds barred.  He put you in this predicament, you have to stop helping him and focus on helping yourself.

See if you can get the neighbor to appear in court on your behalf.  Perhaps any members of his family (would they stand up for you?) who can independently verify his abnormal behaviors.  Remember, a signed affidavit doesn't mean much if anything in court, the witnesses have to appear to relate their stories.  Hmm, would he appear in court and confirm you weren't the one acting out?

In court do NOT ever, not even once, indicate that you were the problem or that you did something wrong.  Why?  It would be sabotaging yourself.  For example, for all you know, the fact that he grabbed your wrists caused them to contract and hence the scratches.

Always maintain your innocence.  Always.  If there is enough doubt then it might get dismissed.  Frankly, he's too dangerous to be around.  Are you planning to divorce?  It might make the officials more willing to help you if you state you've concluded that living with his is too dangerous and you don't want to be a repeat visitor to court.  (If they think you might be coming back over and over then they might help you less, as in "Why bother helping her?  She'll just go right back."

My story... .my ex made death threats, shew as arrested, she refused their attempts to make a plea deal.  (Very smart of her, plea deals usually mean you admit some level of guilt.)  The recording was played, twice she was heard emphatically shouting "I will kill you!"  However, judge referenced case law that said DV threats that were not 'imminent' were not threats.  So she got off, declared Not Guilty and the case was dismissed.

Summary... .stop worrying about him, start worrying about yourself.  Sacrificing yourself won't help him one iota.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on December 29, 2015, 07:05:54 PM
I agree with everything FD said, especially about focusing first and foremost on your own legal issues and not worrying about your husband's "dignity".

Several years ago, I was falsely accused of assault by my then-wife, who was later diagnosed with BPD.  I spent one night in jail - she did too.

I was able to get a good criminal defense attorney.  I know you said you can't afford that, but I think your top priority - very quickly - should be to find a way to afford a good criminal defense attorney.

Some might give you an initial consultation for free, and they might be willing to work out a way to pay them.  Or maybe you can borrow money from someone.  It's very important, so I would strongly suggest you find a way to get a good criminal defense attorney.

Whether you can do that or not - even if you stay with your public defender - you should ask your attorney how to delay the trial.  I'm not a lawyer, and things work differently in different states, but it's critical that you be very, very prepared for the trial, and that takes time.  Also, a delay is likely to make the court more sympathetic to you, because more time will have passed with no more problems.  Have your attorney file a motion right away, asking for 30, 60 or even 90 days to prepare.

Also, ask your attorney about deposing your husband.  That's when your husband answers questions from your attorney under oath.  I did this - my lawyer filed a motion to depose my wife - and it helped a lot.  My attorney and I prepared several questions about what happened that night, and my wife's answers conflicted with what she had told the police, so it became even more clear that she was lying.

You can also probably get a copy of the police report, and go through it carefully.  Use it to prepare for your husband's deposition.  In doing this, remember that it's all about keeping you out of jail.

When your husband is deposed, the goal will be to disprove the worst stuff he said about you.  That means he will look bad, but it doesn't matter - all that matters is disproving the case against you.

Remember, this criminal case isn't Mr. Tarantula vs. Mrs. Tarantula.  It's the State vs. Mrs. Tarantula.  Whatever your husband says, it's the prosecutor that matters, and she will be 100% focused on proving you guilty - that's her job - no matter what the evidence shows.  So you need to figure out every piece of evidence she might have against you - your attorney can file a motion demanding that all the evidence be shown to you in advance - and how you can show that it doesn't add up to guilty.

You will probably have to call your husband as a witness, and your attorney must be prepared to show that your husband lied.  He can do that by comparing what your husband said under oath with what the police report says he said at the time.  Your attorney must confront your husband with those discrepancies and make it clear that everything he said means nothing.

You need to meet frequently with your attorney - paid or public - and make 100% sure that he has a solid plan to get you acquitted.  Then make sure he is following through with his plan and leaving nothing to chance.  If he says, "Well I don't have time to do X." tell him this is your life, and he must do X, and if he doesn't have time you demand a different attorney.  Tell him, "If I have to tell the judge that you're not doing your job right, I am prepared to do that rather than lose this case.  Now get X done!".

At some point there will be a plea agreement offered.  Read it carefully and make sure you understand it.  Remember that if you sign it, you can never take that back - it's forever.  If it's reasonable and you decide that signing it is the right thing to do - for example, it might be a misdemeanor plea, not a felony, with little or no jail time - then you're done.  But if you decide not to take a plea agreement, then make sure your lawyer knows that path is not open to him and you are going to trial, so he has to prepare and win.  Many defense attorneys push hard for their clients to take plea agreements, because it makes the lawyer's job easier.  But if that path isn't open - if you decide not to take any plea agreement - that will require your attorney to step up and prepare for trial.

Good luck!


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: ForeverDad on December 29, 2015, 11:08:24 PM
That was Matt's circumstances, his state and prosecutors don't quickly 'drop' charges or cases, I think by law they have to pursue their cases.  However, since we're basically anonymous here and may not be aware of your state, it might be that the way things work in your state are different.  So questions to ask of your defender is how anxious the prosecutor or court are to pursue you.  Is there an option that if your estranged H doesn't appear that your case would be dismissed?  If he does appear, will he be allowed to clear things up?  If this is your first, um, infraction, how willing would they be to listen to your side of the story and let this time pass?

One thing Matt was spot on about... .this is the Big League, potentially this is serious.  Any offered plea deals will start out very strong against you, remember you can always say No.  Will they want to fulfill a quota, teach you a lesson, or will they aim to see if it can be resolved with a minimum of fuss?  We're remote, we don't know whether it will resolve simply or be a really tough struggle.  Keep us informed as things progress.  Don't sign any admissions of guilt unless you're discussed the ramifications thoroughly with your defender, and ask us as well.  Remember, to him/her, you're just another client, perhaps just another perp if they don't look too closely, but to you and us it's your life and future.

Handle every single thing possible as best as you possibly can.  Sorry, He put you in this position, You can't afford to worry about him.  (Actually, as unstable as he is, he's been through the system so much that he probably knows how to slickly maneuver people and walk out virtually unscathed, after all, in one aspect, what more can they do to him that he hasn't done to himself?  So please, please put every effort into rescuing your future!)

Did you get photos of your bruises taken?  Will they listen to your account that he was manhandling you when the scratches happened?  Will he repeat to officials what really happened?  Will the neighbor go to court to support your story?  Who in your life do you have to support your testimony that you've been dancing around his instability for years?  What can you do to weaken his credibility, if it comes to that?  Do you have any documentation of his hospitalizations, his encounters with the police and other agencies?  Can you compare your relatively stable history with his quite volatile history?

Lastly, I may have mentioned this before, officials may be more willing to help you if you have made plans to end the volatile relationship.  If they believe you'll go right back into his arms, they may dismiss going too far out of their way, "Why bother, we'll get more calls from them again, and again."

So you may need to state something like this at some point.  "Your honor, I'm raising two children.  I work hard to support them.  I really believed I could make this marriage work.  But it's been hard, my H has a number of issues and for years I've tried to be the buffer between him and others and his consequences.  I'm concluding now that I can't do that any more, I can't risk my children or my own future.  I didn't cause this incident, my goal has always been to fix things but clearly I can't do that any more, here I am before you, somewhere I never in a hundred years would have imagined possible.  I wasn't aggressive toward my husband but if you can at all accept my account, I will do my best to avoid being in proximity without witnesses so that you'll never see me again in this way."

Okay, maybe you'll never get to make a speech like that.  Who knows?  But the gist is to figure out how best to extricate yourself without being made to look like just another perp coming before the judge.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: tarantula17 on December 30, 2015, 05:10:45 PM
Thank you for the replies so far.

No, the police didn't bother to take pictures of me at all.  I believe it was due to the irritability they were displaying from being called out to the house twice.  I did ask a county jail officer to look over my hands to see if there were any gashes or anything that were proof of me hitting my husband, and she said she didn't see anything that looked like I hurt someone else.

The advice will be taken, I can normally be a strong advocate in circumstances like these, but this time it's my head on a platter and I'm stressing out.  In fact, I have been battling my depression pretty hardcore since I finally healed up from being in jail.  With fibromyalgia, I heal VERY slow.

At this point I am calling the Public Defender every business day to leave a message for them to get back to me.  I have called several national organizations for advice, too, and am collecting my thoughts and efforts in a little more organized fashion the last few days.

No, I really seriously cannot afford any other kind of lawyer, my disability and my son's survivor's insurance gives us a 998/month income.  With all the incidents the last few months stemming from my husband's manic episodes, I have wasted literally hundreds of dollars that I had no room to waste.  We didn't even have Christmas for the children yet, and normally each year I can only spend a little on them anyway.  This year it went to my bailing out of jail and I felt really guilty, but the children were just glad to have me home. Fortunately I did sign up for a program that helps low-income families with gifts, so they have a few each from the program to open when we ARE able to have Christmas.

I am going to talk to his mom after all this is over and let her know I am separating from him until he is well and am not going to bother contacting her, or him through her, until he is well.  I will not accept contact from him, either, during that time.  It may be years for him to get well, it may be never.  I realized this is something he has to do for himself.  As I told other people, after ten years of my own personal turmoil (before I met my husband and our marriage was made), on top of my disability, I have had enough stress and drama to last me a lifetime.  I can't deal with all this and it isn't because I'm not strong enough (I feel I am a strong person), it's just that I realize I can't save the world (Only Jesus can, in my belief). As far as the marriage part, I am going to stay married but separated, since I do not believe in divorce.  The rest is going to be God's hands.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: tarantula17 on December 30, 2015, 05:36:46 PM
Thank you for the replies so far.

Also we have only been married since July, so it hasn't been years I have had to try and help him through his instability.  I feel like it has, but that is maybe why I have more hope in the situation than most.  It doesn't negate the fact that this is a battle I shouldn't be waging and have ever had to wage, especially having children in the middle of the circumstance.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: ForeverDad on December 31, 2015, 10:32:39 AM
Right now you need to focus on one primary scenario... .your legal outcome in court.  Yes, you of course need to parent at the same time.  But your future, long term and short term, is affected by this court case.  The best outcome is for it to be dismissed, either by the judge deciding things have calmed down now or H not showing up for the hearings that get 'continuances' to new dates, that the court officials conclude you're now a risk of being aggressive or lack of sufficient intent to harm or whatever.

Looking past this, you made a point about hope.  You haven't been married for very long.  You're hoping your sheer intent to help can end up getting him recovered.  Maybe you can, maybe you can't, you at least want to try.  But the problem is that to keep trying you have to be around him and you've just discovered, that's literally and legally dangerous.  Maybe you hope it won't happen again.  You were married just 6 months and had, by my count, at least two separate interactions with police and one arrest.  Looking at just 2016, 1 year, 12 months, 365 days, the numerical risk based from the past 6 months is 4 police encounters and two arrests for 2016.  Maybe you can reduce that risk, maybe avoid some of it, but do you really believe you can avoid all risks while still with him?

Excerpt
I am worried I will lose my kids, do prison time for the felony they are charging me with, my husband may try to commit suicide again, we will lose our housing, etc.

Sorry, but I have to ask, I really want you to ponder well.  What comes first, your hope to help him in some way or your need to protect yourself, your future, your children, your life?  He's an adult, yes a troubled and messed up adult but still an adult and has to face his own consequences.  There are services for him if he will avail himself of them.  You did what you could.  Now follow this link to The Bridge (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=65164.0).


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on December 31, 2015, 11:07:53 AM
Yeah, I can tell you from experience, that if you don't get out of this criminal charge, that's going to impact your life in a big way.

Don't put *anything* ahead of getting the best possible outcome from the criminal charge.

Once that is decided - favorably for you I hope - then you can turn your attention to other things.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: sweetheart on December 31, 2015, 12:10:10 PM
Thank you ForeverDad for the link to The Bridge. It was powerful.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: livednlearned on December 31, 2015, 12:27:08 PM
Can you get a copy of the police report? Hopefully the cops wrote down your husband's admission.

Also, to ditto what FD said, do not even imply that you were at fault. Period. In BPD marriages, and in court, when we "justify, argue, defend, or explain" (JADE) our behavior, it just makes things worse.

Matt gave me great advice here a while back, something along the lines of, In court, unless you are 100% guilty, then you are not guilty. That's the logic of court. In our normal lives, (and especially if you're codependent), you feel guilty about things and want to take responsibility. It's important to separate that kind of thinking when you're dealing with family law.

How old are your kids? Did they witness the incident?


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Deb on December 31, 2015, 12:34:01 PM
Just a couple of questions for you tarantula17: What about YOUR dignity? Don't you deserve that too? You can't love HIM better but you can love yourself enough to be better.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on December 31, 2015, 01:05:45 PM
Seconding what LnL asked:  Where I live, you can get a copy of the police report for $5.  It's essential to have that.

When you read it, you need to decide if you can use it to support what you say, or if it works against you.

If it will help you, then you need to make sure it is entered into evidence, and you might also subpoena the officer who wrote it, so he will have to testify.  Your lawyer should then ask him about what he put into the report, to highlight things that are in your favor.

Or... .if the report works against you... .then you need to find out if it will be put in evidence by the prosecutor, and if so, you'll need to work with your lawyer to figure out how to counter that.  For example, you might subpoena the officer who wrote it, and get him to say things on the stand that contradict what he put in the report - show that the report isn't 100% accurate.  Or show that the officer made some assumptions and put things in the report he didn't see first-hand (for example).

The police report may be 99% of the prosecution's case, so you need to figure out how to deal with everything that's in it.  Usually what the police say is assumed to be accurate, unless you show that it's not.

Two ways to win:

One is to prove that what you are charged with is not correct.  For example, if you could prove that you were not in that place at that time, or that you could not have committed that crime for some other reason.  This is the strongest strategy if you have the evidence to back it up;  we're all told that you're "presumed innocent til proven guilty" but it's better to think "they might convict me if I don't prove I'm innocent"... .

The other strategy is to show that the prosecutor hasn't proved you guilty - challenge every specific thing that works against you and show that the judge or jury doesn't really know what happened.  This isn't as strong... .but sometimes it's all you can do.

Make sure your lawyer is pursuing one or the other of these strategies, and that she is executing it thoroughly.  Talk through with her exactly what witnesses she will call... .what evidence she will show... .how she will handle the police report... .what questions she will ask your husband when he is sworn in... .every detail of how she will handle this case in court.  If she isn't 100% prepared, demand that she file an extension ASAP.  Do not allow your attorney to go to trial unless you are completely convinced that she is as prepared as she can possibly be.

The reason I'm emphasizing preparation is that public defenders usually have too many cases and not enough time, so they are often very poorly prepared.  Let your lawyer do a lousy job for all her other clients - demand she do the best possible job for you.

Your lawyer should also coach you on how to handle the trial - what to wear, how to act, whether you should testify or not, and if you testify she should prepare you by asking you every possible question the prosecutor might ask you, and help you work out the best ways to answer.

If you are not getting all those services from your lawyer - and trial is only 8 days away! - you need to recognize that things are not how they should be, and yell STOP!  Demand that your lawyer file an extension - at least 30 days - and consider asking for a different lawyer.  Tell your lawyer, "I need a good defense and I am not getting it from you.  If you can't step up and do the preparation needed, I need you to admit that, and help me get another lawyer who can do it right."



Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on December 31, 2015, 01:34:14 PM
Can you get a copy of the police report? Hopefully the cops wrote down your husband's admission.

Also, to ditto what FD said, do not even imply that you were at fault. Period. In BPD marriages, and in court, when we "justify, argue, defend, or explain" (JADE) our behavior, it just makes things worse.

Matt gave me great advice here a while back, something along the lines of, In court, unless you are 100% guilty, then you are not guilty. That's the logic of court. In our normal lives, (and especially if you're codependent), you feel guilty about things and want to take responsibility. It's important to separate that kind of thinking when you're dealing with family law.

Yeah... .we can feel "responsible" or "partly responsible" for a situation... .but that doesn't mean you committed a serious crime.

Remember, what they have to prove (beyond reasonable doubt) is that you broke the specific law you're charged with.  Not that you aren't perfect, or that you contributed in some way to the situation - that's probably true of all of us.  But that you broke that specific law.

You can probably find the text of the law online for free, or if not get it from your lawyer.  In my state, laws like this are only a few sentences long, in plain English, and they show exactly what the prosecutor must prove.

Let me give you an example:

Someone I know was wrongly charged with armed robbery.  (The charge was ultimately dropped.)  We looked up the law online and found that it had 2 requirements:  First, they had to prove that he either stole something, or tried to steal it;  and second, that he either had a weapon, or made the victim believe he had a weapon (like holding your hand in your pocket to look like a gun).  When his lawyer looked at the evidence - and remember, the prosecutor can't use any evidence in the trial which she hasn't first provided to the defense! - they had zero evidence that anything was stolen, or that he had tried to steal anything;  and zero evidence that he had a weapon, or that he had pretended to have one.  The statement given by the "victim" at the time said nothing about a weapon at all!

So... .his attorney was able to argue - before it ever got to trial - that the state had no evidence at all which supported the charge of armed robbery.  And the argument was based on the words of the law he was charged with breaking.

So... .in your case, if you and your lawyer both read the words of the law(s) you're charged with breaking, you might see things there which will let you structure your defense accordingly.  For example, it might mention "intent" - meaning that the prosecutor has to prove you intended to hurt your husband.

Make sure your lawyer is focused on the specific charge(s) against you, and what the prosecutor must specifically prove.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: ForeverDad on December 31, 2015, 02:06:55 PM
You have a debilitating chronic illness.  While you shouldn't fake or exaggerate its impact on your health, could your health issues be introduced as significant factors to lend credence to a depiction of you as a person who is not able to be very aggressive and instead tries to avoid painful encounters.  That may make a difference when contrasted with his history of self-harm, volatility, greater strength, presumably larger size, etc.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on December 31, 2015, 02:08:13 PM
You have a debilitating chronic illness.  While you shouldn't fake or exaggerate its impact on your health, could your health issues be introduced as significant factors to lend credence to a depiction of you as a person who is not able to be very aggressive and instead tries to avoid painful encounters.  That may make a difference when contrasted with his history of self-harm, volatility, greater strength, presumably larger size, etc.

Yes... .this doesn't prove that he's entirely at fault, but you don't have to prove that.  You only have to call into question whether it's reasonable to believe that you attacked him... .


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on December 31, 2015, 02:53:21 PM
Another aspect to understand - and I'm not a lawyer, and only have my own personal experience, and things vary from state to state - is the "self defense" aspect... .

My understanding is there are two ways this can work.

First, there's "self defense" - pretty basic - "Yes I hit him but it was in self defense - he attacked me and I had to fight back or I could have been hurt badly or killed."  You need to know exactly what the rules are - when it's OK to say you acted in self-defense - how the law works in your state.

Second, in some states, there's "stand your ground", which means that you could have run but you chose not to.  It may be OK to say, "I could have gotten away, but I chose to defend myself, my home, my kids"... .but you would need very good legal advice to make sure that it's a valid defense in your state and in your specific situation.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: tarantula17 on January 01, 2016, 10:16:42 PM
My children are ten and five. No they did not witness anything, I had planned on them going to my neighbor's when I realized my husband's episodes were coming on. They had backpacks of spare clothing, books and toys made up and kept at the neighbor's so they would have their own things once over there.

Trying to get a hold of anyone governmental is painfully slow during Christmas and the New Year. Going to buckle down efforts on Monday.

At this point, I am not sure my husband will show up or not to court. I set what I believe is healthy boundaries in taking him I will no longer talk with him when he wants to share with me about him self-harming, his suicide or his funeral. He sent me a video about abuse, claims I am gaslighting him and has not spoken to me since. I admit it is a nice break from the drama and turmoil, but it also makes me feel empty. I shared the list of abuse found here with him in a copy/paste email, outlined the 3/4 of the things he has put me through, and doubt he will read it.

If I can pin down communication with my defender, I will see about doing the thing where they make him come to court. I have absolutely no clue how it would blow over at that point. He could surprise me and come anyway - I recently had an 'aha' moment why everyone of our mutual friends are no longer friends with me. To them He would paint me as this picture perfect person, that he is blessed by and prayed for for years. Then he turns around and dumps all this terrible behavior on me that no one else gets to see, or rarely sees. He would tell his mom (been talking to her secretly or he would flip out on his mom) that he couldn't let me go to jail for what happened, but give me a three hour long depressing and clinging sad state that I left the conversation drained by. Walking on eggshells, yes, us a good way to put it. Then when I de-stressed and vented my frustrations, people think my husband is the gentleman hero that loves me so much, how dare I even suggests he had hit me, or threw things at me, or tried to choke me, or drinks and drives as one of his first manic episode coping means?

If he didn't have the episodes, he would be the perfect guy for me. Seriously. But I am more and more okay with this space and distance between us as time passes.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: ForeverDad on January 01, 2016, 10:35:59 PM
I strongly recommend you don't tell him you're a member here.  It's been a long time since I checked but that requirement is probably part of the Terms of Service here too.  For most of us anonymity is utterly vital, not necessarily between members but particularly anonymous regarding our spouses and ex-spouses.  You may mention details here or we may express strategies or other information here that should remain highly confidential.  (For example, some of our boards here can be accessed only by members when logged in, such as this one, "Family Law".  We don't want this board and a few of the others here to be indexed for web searches.)

When a marriage is healthy and improving, appropriate sharing is vital, trust is needed.  But in a troubled marriage where one spouse may need to ask sensitive questions or obtain sensitive information, then privacy and confidentiality takes priority over trust.

Remember, you have a right to privacy just as he does.  You also have a right not to be interrogated, pressured, etc.

Edit:  Another reason not to share information with his is that your relationship has reached a point where he may not listen to anything contrary to his perceptions.  There's just so much emotional baggage that your points get lost or even twisted and used against you.  Perhaps a neutral professional such as a therapist may make some progress with him, but your history of a deeply emotional close relationship creates or triggers a barrier that you may not be able to surmount.

Do you have an order prohibiting or restricting some methods of contact with him?  If so, be sure to follow it to the letter.  Courts view violations very seriously, they don't want more incidents.

Sometimes we too have shared information with our spouses and ex-spouses.  Sometimes such well intentioned efforts backfired on us and the other persons alleged (projected) their behaviors onto us.  Projection is a common blaming and blame-shifting tactic.  Sad to say, trying to reason with someone that their behaviors are unreasonable is a risky tactic, especially when you're already at a legal disadvantage.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 01, 2016, 10:40:13 PM
If you are being tried for a crime, you have some rights.

You have the right to subpoena any witness who you believe should testify.  You probably also have the right for your attorney to talk with the witness - your husband for example - before the trial, to find out what your husband will say at the trial.

You need to know whether the prosecution will have your husband testify or not.  If the prosecution will have your husband testify, your lawyer should absolutely depose (question under oath) your husband at least two weeks before the trial.  Since that is not possible, your lawyer should file a motion saying "The defense cannot be prepared by January 8 so the trial should be delayed."

If the prosecution does not intended to call your husband as a witness - that tells you a lot.  It tells you that the prosecution doesn't want your husband to testify under oath at the trial... .probably because he would make a mess of things.  In that case, you need to consider whether it may be in your interest to subpoena him - make him testify at the trial - and in that case your lawyer must also depose him at least two weeks before the trial.  So again - delay is essential.

It is not up to your husband whether he will testify or not.  If the prosecution subpoenas him, he must testify.  If the defense subpoenas him, he must testify.  In either case, if he does not appear at the trial, your lawyer should be prepared to ask for the charge(s) to be dropped without trial.  If the only witness other than yourself is not at the trial, they cannot possibly convict you, so there should be no trial.

The fact that your lawyer has not made herself available to you, and there is only a week left before the trial, means that you cannot possibly be prepared to defend yourself well.  You must demand that your lawyer file a motion immediately, for a delayed trial.  If your lawyer doesn't do that, you can probably do it yourself - go to the court house Monday and ask there about the proper procedure.  The worst mistake you can make is going to trial unprepared.

You should also consider whether this lawyer is capable and willing to do the job properly.  If you decide she is not up to the job, demand another attorney ASAP.  Make it clear to your lawyer that if you have to go to court with her as your attorney, you will tell the judge in open court that your attorney does not represent you and that you need a proper attorney to be appointed and to have time to prepare your defense.

Some more options to consider:

* Maybe subpoena your husband's mother, so your attorney can ask her about what he told her.  She will be under oath and will have to say that he told her a different story from what he told the police.

* Consider filing civil charges against your husband.

* Talk to a prosecutor - not the one who is prosecuting you - about criminal charges against your husband.

Have you read the text of the laws you are charged with breaking?  Can you say for sure that you did (or did not) break those laws?


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 01, 2016, 10:42:06 PM
I strongly recommend you don't tell him you're a member here.  It's been a long time since I checked but that requirement is probably part of the Terms of Service here too.  For most of us anonymity is utterly vital, not necessarily between members but particularly anonymous regarding our spouses and ex-spouses.  You may mention details here or we may express strategies or other information here that should remain highly confidential.  (For example, some of our boards here can be accessed only by members when logged in, such as this one, "Family Law".  We don't want this board and a few of the others here to be indexed for web searches.)

When a marriage is healthy and improving, appropriate sharing is vital, trust is needed.  But in a troubled marriage where one spouse may need to ask sensitive questions or obtain sensitive information, then privacy and confidentiality takes priority over trust.

Remember, you have a right to privacy just as he does.  You also have a right not to be interrogated, pressured, etc.

Yes - this is very important.

Right now you need to have no contact with your husband - none - no e-mail, no phone calls, and absolutely no face-to-face - at least until your criminal charges are resolved.

Tell your lawyer to inform your husband in writing that you want no contact with him at all.  If he violates that request, you should get a "restraining order" or "order of protection".

Continued contact between you and your husband puts you both at higher risk for going to jail.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 01, 2016, 11:05:22 PM
I strongly recommend you don't tell him you're a member here.  It's been a long time since I checked but that requirement is probably part of the Terms of Service here too.  For most of us anonymity is utterly vital, not necessarily between members but particularly anonymous regarding our spouses and ex-spouses.  You may mention details here or we may express strategies or other information here that should remain highly confidential.  (For example, some of our boards here can be accessed only by members when logged in, such as this one, "Family Law".  We don't want this board and a few of the others here to be indexed for web searches.)

When a marriage is healthy and improving, appropriate sharing is vital, trust is needed.  But in a troubled marriage where one spouse may need to ask sensitive questions or obtain sensitive information, then privacy and confidentiality takes priority over trust.

Remember, you have a right to privacy just as he does.  You also have a right not to be interrogated, pressured, etc.

Yes - this is very important.

Right now you need to have no contact with your husband - none - no e-mail, no phone calls, and absolutely no face-to-face - at least until your criminal charges are resolved.

Tell your lawyer to inform your husband in writing that you want no contact with him at all.  If he violates that request, you should get a "restraining order" or "order of protection".

Continued contact between you and your husband puts you both at higher risk for going to jail.

Here's how talking with your husband or anyone who might talk with him can send you to jail:

You are a criminal defendant.  Your husband is the primary witness to the alleged crime(s).  Talking with him about the trial - or anything remotely related to the accusations against you - can be considered "witness tampering" - which is a crime.

So... .even if they can't prove you committed the crime(s) you're charged with, you can be convicted of another crime - witness tampering - and that may be just as serious, or more so.  You could go to prison for witness tampering... .even if you're not convicted of assault.

Or... .if the judge learns about the tampering before or during your trial, that could make it harder for you to be acquitted.  You will be seen as someone who is not honest enough to let the system work - someone who is trying to avoid a fair trial by persuading or manipulating the witness to say what you want.  Long story short:  you will look guilty.

Here's how your husband could go to jail if he talks with you:

Right now - though you may not know it, and he may not know it - he is the prosecutor's main witness - a "witness for the prosecution".  But if he screws up the prosecutor's case, by talking with you and saying contradictory things - to his mom or whoever - and if that leads to your acquittal, the prosecutor may turn on your husband, and accuse him of something - maybe say he's at fault for the fight, or say that he lied at the trial.  And suddenly you may go free... .and he may go to jail.  (Not saying he shouldn't go to jail if he assaulted you... .that's another subject.)

So... .

Your attorney should have explained this to you, and she didn't.  Which shows she is not doing her job and you cannot possibly be ready for trial by January 8.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: ForeverDad on January 01, 2016, 11:07:08 PM
Matt faced a very strict court.  In his state, once charges are filed the case almost takes a life of its own.  Even the original complainant may not be able to derail it.

Your state may have different laws and procedures that are not so onerous but we have no way of knowing.  Besides, we're peer support, not lawyers.  That's why Matt so strongly urged affirmative action.  So do see what your defender says.  Try to find out how things work in your area.  Avoid "plea deals" like the plague if at all possible.  They are shortcuts offered to the 'perps' that save the lawyers and courts time but means innocent people can get swept up and painted as guilty 'perps' too.  (Perps is short for perpetrators of crime.)

My state was more laid back.  When my now-ex was arrested, she faced a charge of Threat of DV.  I made sure I appeared from each appearance.  There were a couple appearances where the deputy DA tried to convince her to take a plea deal.  She refused.  Then he tried to see if I would let it go.  Having been warned of this by the officer who filed my report, I declined.  So court just adjourned to later dates, that's all.  Continuances are common in court.  It think it was the third time we finally had the trial.  (It was clear the judge was not seeking to find her guilty, it was the end of the day and he wanted to go home.  She was found Not Guilty when the judge applied case law interpretations to conclude her death threats weren't 'imminent' and therefore he ruled it wasn't DV.)  I suspect that if I didn't attend the appearances her case might have been dismissed.  I don't know.  I suspect he was lenient on her since she had no rap sheet or history of DV, it was her first time in court.  I also suspect that if I, a male, had been before him for the same actions that I wouldn't have been so fortunate.

My point is that it would be good to get a feel for how cases like this usually turn out in your local area.  We can speculate all we want and still not know how aggressive or how forgiving your court will be.  So... .hope for the best (least unfavorable outcome) but prepare for the worst.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 01, 2016, 11:10:07 PM
Matt faced a very strict court.  In his state, once charges are filed the case almost takes a life of its own.  Even the original complainant may not be able to derail it.

Your state may have different laws and procedure that are not so onerous but we have no way of knowing.  Besides, we're peer support, not lawyers.  That's why Matt so strongly urged affirmative action.

My state was more laid back.  When my now-ex was arrested, she faced a charge of Threat of DV.  I made sure I appeared from each appearance.  There were a couple appearances where the deputy DA tried to convince her to take a plea deal.  She refused.  Then he tried to see if I would let it go.  Having been warned of this by the officer I made my report to, I declined.  So court just adjourned to later dates.  Continuances are common in court.  It think it was the third time we finally had the trial.  (It was clear the judge was not seeking to find her guilty, it was the end of the day and he wanted to go home.  She was found Not Guilty when the judge applied case law interpretations to conclude her death threats weren't 'imminent' and therefore he ruled it wasn't DV.)  I suspect that if I didn't attend the appearances her case might have been dismissed.  I don't know.  I suspect he was lenient on her since she had no rap sheet or history of DV, it was her first time in court.  I also suspect that if I, a male, had been before him for the same actions that I wouldn't have been so fortunate.

My point is that it would be good to get a feel for how cases like this usually turn out in your local area.  We can speculate all we want and still not know how aggressive or how forgiving your court will be.  So... .hope for the best (least unfavorable outcome) but prepare for the worst.

Very good points.

It's also possible that what you are describing as a "trial" may really be a "pre-trial hearing" - a meeting between you and the prosecutor (which your lawyer may or may not attend) so the prosecutor can discuss a possible plea agreement with you.

Unless you are 100% sure you want to do a plea agreement, make sure you plead innocent at each step along the way.  That keeps your options open... .


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: livednlearned on January 02, 2016, 09:23:07 AM
It's also possible that what you are describing as a "trial" may really be a "pre-trial hearing" - a meeting between you and the prosecutor (which your lawyer may or may not attend) so the prosecutor can discuss a possible plea agreement with you.

Unless you are 100% sure you want to do a plea agreement, make sure you plead innocent at each step along the way.  That keeps your options open... .

Be sure, too, to find out what the long-term repercussions are of making a plea agreement. Attorneys will make it seem like a good idea to say yes, you did xyz, because the charges will get dropped. But admission of guilt may show up on your permanent record and follow your employment history.

Courts want to keep people out of their chambers. They want fewer people plugging up the judge's time -- it costs more money to go to trial, and they don't want to see repeat offenders cycling through their doors, using the courts to solve their problems. If you come across as someone who does not understand their objective (to keep you out of their system), then you will become a problem to them.

You have to accept that your husband is dangerous to you and your kids. Court will want to hear this from you.

You have to accept that, despite his illness, and despite his good qualities, he is abusive and dangerous.

You have to believe that you are worth protecting, and that your kids need a mama who is not in and out of jail.



Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 02, 2016, 12:35:01 PM
Courts want to keep people out of their chambers. They want fewer people plugging up the judge's time -- it costs more money to go to trial, and they don't want to see repeat offenders cycling through their doors, using the courts to solve their problems. If you come across as someone who does not understand their objective (to keep you out of their system), then you will become a problem to them.

You have to accept that your husband is dangerous to you and your kids. Court will want to hear this from you.

You have to accept that, despite his illness, and despite his good qualities, he is abusive and dangerous.

You have to believe that you are worth protecting, and that your kids need a mama who is not in and out of jail.

Another good point.

I was successful in getting the charges against me dropped completely.  (For the record, they were ":)omestic violence assault", "Creating a public disturbance" and ":)estruction of private property" - all misdemeanors.)

One key to getting them dropped completely - no trial and no plea agreement - was that I was prepared by my attorney, who coached me that the judge was likely to ask what I would do if the charges were dropped.  I said, "I'm going to continue living separately from my wife, and no contact with her, while I see if she will agree to therapy and maybe the marriage can be saved." (or something like that).

The reason this worked is exactly what LnL said:  The judge could hear me saying that I wouldn't be back in her courtroom next week, because I would be staying away from my wife until and unless the problem got treated.

(As it turned out, we went to four marriage counselors - all picked by my wife - with no progress.  Finally the fourth one - who was affiliated with my wife's church and really knew what she was doing - identified BPD as the underlying problem and recommended that my wife get treatment... .which my wife refused... .and that was the end of my hope to save the marriage.)

If what the judge hears from you sounds like "more of the same", she may be harsh with you.  But if what she hears sounds like a practical solution - a path forward that will keep you out of her courtroom - then she is more likely to rule the way you want.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Duck_Borders on January 03, 2016, 08:13:25 PM
Your Husband sounds like a very severe case.  He won't get better.  Don't worry about his dignity, or about him at all for that matter.  That's hard to do I know, but if anything do it for your kids.  Your Husband won't do you the same courtesy of worrying about your dignity, I promise you that. 

This sounds like a terrible relationship that you should start preparing to exit right now.  Buy the book Splitting and prepare for a long haul of false accusations and manipulation. 

If your Husband has prior incidents with the law, make sure you have a record of them.  Trust me, the people in his past did not abandon him, he did a similar thing to them and they ran.

I really hope you can find a way out of this.  I hope that as a woman the family court system will be kinder to you than it is to most men. 

Good luck!


My husband has bipolar and BPD.  He self-harms, and has cut, burned and hit himself quite a few times over the last few months.  A few nights ago, he tried overdosing on a new prescription he was trying out (and stopped taking them thankfully and thankfully was stabilized by paramedics who showed up at his mom's house where he was staying).

On December 6th, he was in an emotional rage and not only cut his face open by hitting himself with his fist, he took my hands and put them to his throat, then started making choking noises.  I had my hands on his chest trying to push past him in the hall to get outside and get help.  I ended up closing my hands when he made the noises, realizing with horror and fear that he was using ME to hurt HIM.  When I managed to pull away from him (he left bruises on my hands from holding me so tightly to him) he yelled 'Hit me! Hit me!' and I yelled 'No!' and ran outside to call 911.  Not before he managed to wipe some blood on my left arm.  I am not a professional therapist or anything, but I had this feeling afterwards that he was trying to prove the very person he trusts the most is willing to hurt and abandon him like all the other people in his life.  But I wouldn't intentionally hurt him - part of that was the way we were raised, that violence isn't the answer, and part of it is my messed up fight or flight response due to fibromyalgia.  Anything stressful or dramatic and I want to get away from it as fast as humanely possible.

The police showed up and arrested me.  I didn't know until my arraignment (never been to jail before or run in with the law, so this was all new to me) that me closing my fists had left scratch marks on my husband's neck, so the police thought I tried to choke him and hit him. 

How do I prove my innocence, my character and still maintain the dignity of my very ashamed, embarrassed husband?  While in an emotional rage, he told them I did hurt him and then in a wash of abandonment issues seeing them haul me off, he told them he did in fact hurt himself.  I am worried I will lose my kids, do prison time for the felony they are charging me with, my husband may try to commit suicide again, we will lose our housing, etc.  I am professionally trained as a chronic pain advocate because I did work with the chronic pain community for years (I am very community-minded), but this boggles me and I am severely worn out with this all.  I can't afford a lawyer for the trial January 8th, so I have a public defender.

Advice?



Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 03, 2016, 08:21:02 PM
Your Husband sounds like a very severe case.  He won't get better.

I've read a bit about whether someone with BPD or a similar problem can get better.

One study done by a group connected with Harvard Medical School found that when people with BPD get the proper treatment, and follow through for 5 years, more than 80% of them do very well.  They don't get "cured", but they are able to act right and feel much better.

But here's the problem... .

Most people with BPD won't accept treatment.  My ex, for example, was diagnosed with BPD, and was ordered by a judge to get treatment - at no cost to her.  By not accepting it, she put her rights to see the kids at risk.  But she ignored the order - that was several years ago - and continues to act like she always did - and no happier than when we were married.

I think that's pretty typical.  Getting treatment would be the best thing for your husband... .but it's very unlikely he will.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Duck_Borders on January 03, 2016, 08:35:35 PM
My Dad is a clinical psychologist and through him I've been lucky enough to access a few other psychiatrists that specialize in BPD/NPD.  I actually brought my ex to one psychiatrist for what we told her was "couples therapy".  She only went once, and then left the country (although she did at one point ask if she could do couples therapy with myself and the shrink through facetime... .a ridiculous proposition IMO).  She claimed she was fine and I was the one with major problems and needed help. 

I've been seeing the same shrink for 2 years now.  We have a great relationship and he's helped me understand some of this craziness and manage my own emotions.  He's also helped be a mirror for me and help me realize that as much as I hated my ex, I wanted to fight for custody of my son, because without me, my son is destined for a life of misery being raised by this poor excuse of a person. 

Anyways, when I was still in the denial phase thinking I could help my ex get better, I asked my shrink how many BPD's he's successfully helped recover.  He said 1 in 5000... .  that number has stuck with me since, and I realized it wasn't possible to help her pretty quickly after that. 

As my Dad puts it - they don't get better, only a very few of them learn how to manage their outbursts and "act" normal.  They still have their insane thoughts and beliefs, but they learn that "normal" people don't respond well to terrible insults and violent attacks and they learn that they cannot do that in society and be accepted.


Your Husband sounds like a very severe case.  He won't get better.

I think that's pretty typical.  Getting treatment would be the best thing for your husband... .but it's very unlikely he will.



Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: tarantula17 on January 05, 2016, 11:05:27 AM
You have a debilitating chronic illness.  While you shouldn't fake or exaggerate its impact on your health, could your health issues be introduced as significant factors to lend credence to a depiction of you as a person who is not able to be very aggressive and instead tries to avoid painful encounters.  That may make a difference when contrasted with his history of self-harm, volatility, greater strength, presumably larger size, etc.

Fibromyalgia has messed up my "fight or flight" response, so I want to get away from any dramatic or stressful situation really quick.  If I don't, my cogntive dysfunction kicks in and my body starts shutting down.  For extreme example, my pregnancy with my daughter flared my symptoms so the pregnancy was very  hard on me.  My mother had a brain anuerysm rupture five years ago and I drove through the whole state of Wisconsin down to Ohio where she was flight-for-life taken.  My sister caused so much drama, my fight-or-flight kicked into overdrive.  Driving + hard pregnancy due to illness + sister's drama = no matter what anyone told me or for the mere fact that my mom was in a coma, I told them "I have to go home", got in my pickup and drove straight north.  Would've ended up in Michigan if my cousin hadn't jumped into the truck to go with me.  I should not have been on the road that day; it took me a few hours to actually come to my literal senses.

I realize that when my husband goes into his episodes, I want to get away asap.  I can't handle the stress.

As far as the public defender, I keep trying to get a hold of her.  I talked to her yesterday, but she was so busy that she was going to call me back later in the afternoon, and never did.  I think she serves two or three counties, so I understand she is busy, but I am seriously nervous at this point.  Mom's letting me use her car so I can go get the police reports.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: tarantula17 on January 05, 2016, 11:21:59 AM
Your Husband sounds like a very severe case.  He won't get better.

I've read a bit about whether someone with BPD or a similar problem can get better.

One study done by a group connected with Harvard Medical School found that when people with BPD get the proper treatment, and follow through for 5 years, more than 80% of them do very well.  They don't get "cured", but they are able to act right and feel much better.

But here's the problem... .

Most people with BPD won't accept treatment.  My ex, for example, was diagnosed with BPD, and was ordered by a judge to get treatment - at no cost to her.  By not accepting it, she put her rights to see the kids at risk.  But she ignored the order - that was several years ago - and continues to act like she always did - and no happier than when we were married.

I think that's pretty typical.  Getting treatment would be the best thing for your husband... .but it's very unlikely he will.

My husband does accept the fact that he has BPD and will be the first one up in the morning to call the therapist's office to see if he can get in sooner.  He recognizes the fact that it is tearing us all up and I can see him trying to deal with/cope with the issues at hand.  I think that is the only reason I have left, aside from my spiritual belief, that gives me any hope for him and for us.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 05, 2016, 12:01:47 PM
As far as the public defender, I keep trying to get a hold of her.  I talked to her yesterday, but she was so busy that she was going to call me back later in the afternoon, and never did.  I think she serves two or three counties, so I understand she is busy, but I am seriously nervous at this point.  Mom's letting me use her car so I can go get the police reports.

If you are schedule for trial this Friday the 8th - do I remember that correctly? - it's completely unacceptable that your attorney hasn't spoken with you yet.

My suggestion would be to go down to the courthouse and ask what your options are.  Tell them your attorney isn't talking to you and you can't possibly be ready for trial by Friday.

There may be several options available - a different public attorney, or a delay in the trial date, or maybe even the opportunity to talk with a judge or someone else about your case.

People get railroaded by the system because they are too passive.  From what you've said, I can understand that you want to avoid drama - we all do! - and you have extra reasons to look for ways to avoid excessive stress.  You'll have more options if you act before Friday than if you go in Friday and aren't fully prepared - which will take a lot of work by your lawyer.  Better to have a calm chat with someone at the court house today or tomorrow than a stressful situation Friday.

And I'll repeat... .maybe you know if this is correct or not... .it seems possible that what is planned for Friday isn't a "trial" exactly, but a pre-trial hearing or some other meeting that won't be final.  But you need to understand before Friday exactly what you're getting into;  it's by not fully understanding the process that we sometimes make mistakes that have bad consequences.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: tarantula17 on January 05, 2016, 01:04:43 PM
The trial - don't know if it is a pre-trial or the actual trial, but I have a feeling it is the actual trial because the bail lady said that the public defender usually never meets with the defendants until the court date.  She said I'd be lucky if the defender ever got back with me, too.

I went to the police station and picked up all the records of any time they've been out to the house, whether I have called them or my husband has.  Six times in all.

Six times the police paint me as the crazy person with statements.  For instance, when the morning of the 6th my husband woke in a manic episode, he felt completely rejected by me and like I didn't want the marriage because I wouldn't cuddle with him.  Well.  I was asleep!  If he woke me up, I would've liked to.  But I didn't get that option.  I informed the police that I wasn't awake and didn't get the option, to try and show them how my husband's thoughts were not logical and reasoning at the time.  I asked them to call his therapist and confirm his state of mind was not stable while he was in the episode.  They didn't listen, and wrote instead in the report,"... .Mrs. B who stated that it was unsafe for her husband to drive due to anxiety issues.  Mrs. B stated that it all began when her husband wanted to cuddle with her this morning.  When she refused, Mr. B stated that he was going for a drive. "  I had told them about the experiences he had in the past when he drove during his manias, the unsafeness to himself, others, and to me/kids at one time.  I had told them that when he wasn't in his episodes, he was perfectly fine driving and I had never refused the keys before, and that my husband had realized he was unsafely driving and we planned to keep the keys from him while he was in that state of mind.  Also, I told them several times that I was sleeping when my husband wanted intimacy and didn't wake me up for it.  

This repeats itself over and over in the six police reports, that I'm some sort of crazy woman that they have to 'deal' with.  If I didn't know the whole situation and was in the thick of things... .looking over the police reports, I would say that I was crazy, too.  

I guess the only good thing about these reports is that in the times mentioned in domestic abuse, I was listed as the victim, although they never saw anything to indicate I was physically harmed.  I should've called when he gashed up my hand, bruised my back by throwing something... .but even then, I have this nasty feeling that they would've neglected to do anything to help me then, too, since they didn't even take pictures of me on the 6th.

I am feeling more and more panicky and nervous as the date approaches.   I am feeling very much alone in all this, especially since I pretty much lost my social circle to all this mess and my parents are disapproving.  My mom will let me use the car for things, but I know she gives me her silent disapproval too.  Not to mention lost another good friend yesterday because she thinks the kids aren't good in this situation and is willing to forsake a friendship over it.



Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: ForeverDad on January 05, 2016, 01:29:17 PM
The judge may not read every last word of all the police reports.  Perhaps you being listed as victim might be helpful and they won't look deeper.  Being remote, we can only hypothesize.  Since you're concerned how the prior reports might look, can you bring any witnesses with you who can support your version of the incident or general history?  (Letters and affidavits from individuals may be ignored, that's why they would have to appear if needed.  However, a therapist's comments as a professional could be meaningful.)  Bring proof of your chronic condition in case helpful.  Bring the reports anyway in case the PD thinks they may help.  If you have a spotless record or nothing recent, then make sure that is brought to light.  (If your husband does not have a clean record or you can bring documentation of his mental issues, then see how that could be used to counter this incident.)

Also, it's possible that the court may be willing to let you go with a warning and dismiss the case.  You never know what the defender and prosecutor may work out.  As already suggested, it might help to explain what changes you have made in your life to avoid this ever happening again.  They will be more helpful if you can convince them you won't be back - usually that means ending the contact with that other person.)

Is you husband living elsewhere or are you together?  If you have (permitted) contact and can state things are calmer now then they might be willing to let it all go.

Not knowing your court or its format, I would guess you have two outcomes before you this week... .(1) you convince them to dismiss the case or (2) you or the PD or the prosecutor ask for a continuance to another date.  You may face pressure into agreeing to a plea deal but usually they're Bad News, they are designed for perps who know they're guilty as sin, not innocent people who got caught up in the technicalities of procedure and law.  As I wrote, likely you'll face #1 or #2.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 05, 2016, 02:22:45 PM
A few thoughts... .

First, I think you should find out more - today or tomorrow - about what exactly is supposed to happen on Friday - if it's a "trial" or something else.

Second, I think you should continue to try to contact the attorney.  If you have her e-mail address, send her a note saying, "I believe I am going to be tried on Friday and want to be prepared for that.  I need you to return my calls immediately or we can't be prepared by Friday."  Then bring copies of these e-mails with you on Friday, to show that you aren't getting any help.

Third, be prepared to ask for a continuance or delay in the trial (or whatever is scheduled for Friday).  Don't hesitate - stand up and address the judge at the first possible moment and be prepared to say very clearly that you are not prepared and you have not had adequate help from your attorney.  If you wait til things are over it may be too late to ask for a "do-over".

Finally, I would suggest you go over each of the police reports carefully, and decide whether you want to say, "This is accurate and here's how it supports my account of what happened.", or, "This isn't accurate."  Let me tell a story to illustrate why this is so important... .

When I was arrested and charged with assault - my BPD wife had called 911 and said "My husband pushed me down the stairs." - I got the police report and read it very carefully.  It was very accurate, but at one point it said, "Mr. Matt stated that his wife had stumbled and fallen down the stairs."  That's not what happened and not what I said;  my wife had stumbled while we were both on the stairs but I caught her and kept her from falling - she did not fall down the stairs at all.

So... .my lawyer told me to prepare very carefully how to handle that, because she knew it would come up.  I said under oath, "The report is very accurate - the officers did a great job preparing it and it proves that the accusation is false.  The only spot where I see a small mistake is where they said, '... .his wife had stumbled and fallen... .' - that's not exactly right - she stumbled but I caught her so she didn't fall down the stairs."

This worked, because my lawyer had prepared me to make it very brief and clear.  The risk was that the prosecution might have said, "Oh, so the police report isn't accurate - is that what you're saying?" - and the police report was really exonerating me, so I didn't want to get it thrown out, I only wanted to correct one small issue.

So... .you have 6 police reports to go through, and if you decide that one of them isn't accurate, you can say that... .but the judge will be more likely to believe the police than you, so you'll have to do it very carefully.

Or... .if the police reports work in your favor - if they either prove you aren't guilty, or at least don't prove that you are guilty - then it may be best to prepare your case based on the police reports - "See - the police reports show I'm not guilty."


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 05, 2016, 02:51:58 PM
The judge may not read every last word of all the police reports.

Different judges might handle it differently... .but I think this is probably correct.

The way it works where I live is, either party (the prosecutor or the defense) can submit the police reports as evidence - in advance of the trial, but not on the day of the trial.

Then if they are "in evidence", you or your lawyer can point out specific things, like a spot that you think is important to your defense.  "Your Honor, here on page 7, the first paragraph says such-and-such... ." - and the judge (or jury) will then be aware of that.

But of course if you do that, the prosecutor is likely to bring up things in that same report that work against you, and you and your attorney should be prepared to rebut what the prosecutor or another witness says about that.

You have to look at each of the reports carefully, and note everything that can help you, and everything that can hurt you, and prepare the best way to use the reports to help your case.

One big reason why preparation is so important!


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: tarantula17 on January 06, 2016, 09:47:30 AM
I did find out that Friday is a pre-trial meeting with the judge.

I did finally talk to my public defender yesterday and requested a continuance.

She said that she will ask the DA if he is okay with a continuance, and if he doesn't agree, will go to the judge.  She said that if the DA agrees with the continuance, the judge is more likely to grant it.  If I get the continuance, the pre-trial will be delayed.  I am asking for the continuance so that I can get all the things I need together for the case, like it will cost me $40.00 to get my husbands records from one of the hospitals he has been to.  They will prove his mental health history as well as when I took him in several times for either his episodes or self-harm while in his episodes.  Money is seriously tight though on a budget less than 1k per month, so I need the extra time.

We have a no-contact order in place, so he is staying with his mom in the next state over.  His mom is sending some things directly to the PD, however, that may help... .like a letter stating she heard him hitting himself while on the phone with him the night of December 5th, a video of his account while he isn't in an episode (the defender said that it would be helpful in case he does come to as a witness while in an episode) and the letter he received from his therapist in that state about his diagnosis of bipolar and BPD, as well as his history of self-harm.

I am going to note on the back of the police reports what statements aren't true and the truth of them.  Unfortunately, none of these have witnessess because anything witnessed in public was extremely shameful for me and I didn't run people down to say 'hey write down that you saw this happen' (like him almost hitting us with the car in an episode).  I did get a picture of the huge divets of grass torn up where he did almost hit us in that episode and the frying pan he doesn't remember curling up durning another episode.  His mom said he is trying very hard to help where he can, but he doesn't know what he is able to do, so I referred her to the PD's contact information for anything further.  That way we're not discussing anything case-wise with me (tampering in any way).


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 06, 2016, 10:29:12 AM
Very good news!

The way pre-trial conferences work where I live is that the judge asks how you want to plead, and if a plea agreement is happening, and both the prosecution and the defense can say, "We're working out a plea agreement but it's not finished yet.", or "My client is prepared to plead guilty to these charges.", or "My client pleads innocent and we need some time to prepare for trial."

The judge may not be willing to delay the pre-trial conference, because she may say that all the information you are gathering isn't needed until the trial.  But she will hear your attorney's (and your) request for a trial date;  for example, you could say, "We're ready and we want the soonest available date to get this over with.", or "We need 60 days to prepare.", and the judge will then pick a date... .or there may be another pre-trial conference... .

The good news is that you won't be tried Friday, and that you are getting key information together, and especially that your husband and his mom are doing what's right too.

The worst thing that happens sometimes is the process goes forward and nobody helps the defendant, and mistakes get made (like taking a bad plea agreement) which can't be fixed later.  It doesn't sound like that's happening in your case.

Since your husband and his mom are bringing forward information that might help you, your attitude might not be, "I'm right and he's wrong.", but more like, "He has a problem and we're both doing our best to manage it."

But also keep in mind what has been said here, that if the judge perceives that this stuff is going to continue, she may be impatient and "teach you a lesson".  She's more likely to drop the charges if she believes that you have found a way to not come back to her court in the future... .


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: tarantula17 on January 07, 2016, 01:48:31 PM
I may not get the help needed from him or his mother.  Everything depends on if he's in a manic episode or not.

I am getting more and more depressed and having anxiety attacks on a daily basis.

I approached a few national organizations to see if I could get any information about self-harm as a symptom/result? of BPD and/or Bipolar, but nobody can help me short of them telling me to print something off from the internet.  I don't think a judge would take information from me, a person who's not a therapist or psychiatrist, handing them something from the internet.

I also tried contacting his therapist and psychiatrist, but they want him to sign a release form, get it to them, and then I can have access to his records.  That is all they are willing to do to help me.  The records cost $40.00 which I don't have for another few weeks.  All this money that has been spent on manic episodes and the consequences has severely taxed my finances.  I have no savings whatsoever.

Literally I have nobody to stand up and say that self-harm comes with his illness UNLESS he decides to fax/mail that letter from the therapist he's seeing in the other state.  That's a big IF when he's in and out of manic episodes.  I can't prove my innocence on an IF.

I don't know what I am doing and I am so frustrated.  Every time I try to think of something that might work... .since all I have really at this point if I discount something my husband may or may not send... .are incorrect statements of a police report.  My disability hearing is on the 27th of January and I am trying to keep my head on straight.  One major life-changing event at a time.

Happy Near Year, right?  Right... .   


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 07, 2016, 02:01:00 PM
Depression and anxiety - we've all been there.

What I learned that helped a lot was to find 3 sources of support:  family and close friends (who may not know much but care a lot about me), peers (like us here), and a professional like a counselor or member of the clergy.

I found a great counselor and he advised me to get very regular sleep, exercise every day, and watch out for what adds to my stress and what reduces it, and spend more time with things and people that relieve my stress.  Sounds simple but it helped a lot... .and I was very low.

You can't make good decisions if you're too depressed or stressed, so this is a key thing to deal with... .and then you can handle everything else.

About self-harm - people with BPD are much more likely to hurt themselves than most people are.  There is a ton of research on this - let us know if you can't find anything online - maybe something here on this site, or maybe someone here can give you a link.

Some books to read if you can are "Splitting" by William A. Eddy and "Stop Walking On Eggshells" by Randi Kreger (who founded this site).

But you're probably right - nothing you say about the psychological aspects will be given any weight in court if you don't have the right education and credentials.

One option is to find a local psychologist - maybe someone who teaches at a local college or university - who can do a little research to learn about BPD, and then testify about it.

Or subpoena your husband's doctor... .?

But... .as a legal strategy... .this may not be the way to focus too much.  The reason is that you are charged with a specific crime, so the real issue is whether the state can prove that you committed that crime... .not your husband's mental health.  Even if the court agrees that your husband has BPD, and that he is at risk for self-harm... .that doesn't show whether or not you committed the crime you are accused of.  So this whole issue - his psychological issues - might be a dead end!

Much of your frustration, in my opinion, is due to not getting adequate help from your attorney.  Public defenders can be wonderful people, who are trying to help their clients... .but they usually have very little time available.  And the squeaky wheel gets the grease.  So when you are able to talk to your lawyer, let her know how stressed you are over this, and that you need her help, and insist on an appointment in her office - not in the courtroom where you have no privacy - so you and she can team up and make a solid plan.  Then you will at least know what to expect and have some confidence (I hope) that she will help you out of this situation.


Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: ForeverDad on January 07, 2016, 02:54:41 PM
Maybe you can choose a secondary strategy... .You may not have to go so far as to prove your innocence, just enough to make it more difficult to rule that you're guilty.

Make a checklist to help you present a good defense.

First, find out if the court is willing to dismiss the case, no need for a continuance if they will dismiss it.

You have no history in court.  (Emphasize that, it means a lot.)

You've been to the police on these prior dates ____ reporting him causing troubles.

(Potentially, you don't know yet) he did not appear in court for the hearing.

You have a chronic illness that makes muscle movement painful.

Etc.

Put your defense on paper.  You will be too nervous there to remember all the things you could state.

I think the arresting officers have to appear in court.  They can be cross-examined.  You could ask whether they heard your husband begging for you not to be arrested. You could ask about your prior call that day, why nothing was done then to avoid an escalation later.



Title: Re: Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case
Post by: Matt on January 07, 2016, 03:10:43 PM
First, find out if the court is willing to dismiss the case, no need for a continuance if they will dismiss it.

(Potentially, you don't know yet) he did not appear in court for the hearing.

I think the arresting officers have to appear in court.  They can be cross-examined.

Very important points!

If your husband doesn't appear - not tomorrow but at your trial - I think your lawyer could ask for the case to be dismissed because there will be no witnesses against you.

Also, if the officers don't appear, their report can be thrown out - your lawyer should ask for that - because the report can't be used unless the officers are there to answer questions about it.

So... .if there are no witnesses against you, and no police report... .the prosecutor will not have a case.  Your lawyer should push very hard for the case to be dismissed for lack of evidence.

If the officers do appear, your lawyer should be ready - as FD suggests - question them carefully.  For example, she might ask them if they saw you do anything you are charged with, or if they found any evidence at all that you did what you are charged with.

Police officers' testimony is usually believed unless it is shows to be inaccurate.  But I have seen a police officer questioned under oath, and the attorney proved the officer made one false statement... .and then his entire report was considered iffy.  So anything in the report which is against you, can maybe be challenged, if your lawyer can find a single false statement in the report or in something the officer says.