Maintaining Dignity for BPD Husband in Aggravated Domestic Assault Case

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My husband has bipolar and BPD.  He self-harms, and has cut, burned and hit himself quite a few times over the last few months.  A few nights ago, he tried overdosing on a new prescription he was trying out (and stopped taking them thankfully and thankfully was stabilized by paramedics who showed up at his mom's house where he was staying).

On December 6th, he was in an emotional rage and not only cut his face open by hitting himself with his fist, he took my hands and put them to his throat, then started making choking noises.  I had my hands on his chest trying to push past him in the hall to get outside and get help.  I ended up closing my hands when he made the noises, realizing with horror and fear that he was using ME to hurt HIM.  When I managed to pull away from him (he left bruises on my hands from holding me so tightly to him) he yelled 'Hit me! Hit me!' and I yelled 'No!' and ran outside to call 911.  Not before he managed to wipe some blood on my left arm.  I am not a professional therapist or anything, but I had this feeling afterwards that he was trying to prove the very person he trusts the most is willing to hurt and abandon him like all the other people in his life.  But I wouldn't intentionally hurt him - part of that was the way we were raised, that violence isn't the answer, and part of it is my messed up fight or flight response due to fibromyalgia.  Anything stressful or dramatic and I want to get away from it as fast as humanely possible.

The police showed up and arrested me.  I didn't know until my arraignment (never been to jail before or run in with the law, so this was all new to me) that me closing my fists had left scratch marks on my husband's neck, so the police thought I tried to choke him and hit him. 

How do I prove my innocence, my character and still maintain the dignity of my very ashamed, embarrassed husband?  While in an emotional rage, he told them I did hurt him and then in a wash of abandonment issues seeing them haul me off, he told them he did in fact hurt himself.  I am worried I will lose my kids, do prison time for the felony they are charging me with, my husband may try to commit suicide again, we will lose our housing, etc.  I am professionally trained as a chronic pain advocate because I did work with the chronic pain community for years (I am very community-minded), but this boggles me and I am severely worn out with this all.  I can't afford a lawyer for the trial January 8th, so I have a public defender.

Advice?

[tarantula17]

My husband has bipolar and BPD.  He self-harms, and has cut, burned and hit himself quite a few times over the last few months.  A few nights ago, he tried overdosing on a new prescription he was trying out (and stopped taking them thankfully and thankfully was stabilized by paramedics who showed up at his mom's house where he was staying).

On December 6th, he was in an emotional rage and not only cut his face open by hitting himself with his fist, he took my hands and put them to his throat, then started making choking noises.  I had my hands on his chest trying to push past him in the hall to get outside and get help.  I ended up closing my hands when he made the noises, realizing with horror and fear that he was using ME to hurt HIM.  When I managed to pull away from him (he left bruises on my hands from holding me so tightly to him) he yelled 'Hit me! Hit me!' and I yelled 'No!' and ran outside to call 911.  Not before he managed to wipe some blood on my left arm.  I am not a professional therapist or anything, but I had this feeling afterwards that he was trying to prove the very person he trusts the most is willing to hurt and abandon him like all the other people in his life.  But I wouldn't intentionally hurt him - part of that was the way we were raised, that violence isn't the answer, and part of it is my messed up fight or flight response due to fibromyalgia.  Anything stressful or dramatic and I want to get away from it as fast as humanely possible.

The police showed up and arrested me.  I didn't know until my arraignment (never been to jail before or run in with the law, so this was all new to me) that me closing my fists had left scratch marks on my husband's neck, so the police thought I tried to choke him and hit him. 

How do I prove my innocence, my character and still maintain the dignity of my very ashamed, embarrassed husband?  While in an emotional rage, he told them I did hurt him and then in a wash of abandonment issues seeing them haul me off, he told them he did in fact hurt himself.  I am worried I will lose my kids, do prison time for the felony they are charging me with, my husband may try to commit suicide again, we will lose our housing, etc.  I am professionally trained as a chronic pain advocate because I did work with the chronic pain community for years (I am very community-minded), but this boggles me and I am severely worn out with this all.  I can't afford a lawyer for the trial January 8th, so I have a public defender.

Advice?

[ForeverDad]

Well, look at the title of your thread.  Frankly, you can't be worried about his dignity when he got you sent to jail.  Sorry, that's priority kicking in, once he endangered your safety and peace (and clean record) then you have to step back and re-examine the relationship.  While yes a person may make sacrifices for a relationship to get past hard times, you cannot sacrifice yourself.  Does that make sense?  He has LONG TERM issues, they aren't going away.

First, you need to get past this current legal problem, then you need to step back and honestly ask yourself why you're risking yourself and your future for him.

Did you get photos taken of the bruises on your wrists that he causes?  If not, then get them taken now.

When you appear in court you need to have as much documentation as possible about his pattern of poor behaviors, his medical history, arrests, etc.  No holds barred.  He put you in this predicament, you have to stop helping him and focus on helping yourself.

See if you can get the neighbor to appear in court on your behalf.  Perhaps any members of his family (would they stand up for you?) who can independently verify his abnormal behaviors.  Remember, a signed affidavit doesn't mean much if anything in court, the witnesses have to appear to relate their stories.  Hmm, would he appear in court and confirm you weren't the one acting out?

In court do NOT ever, not even once, indicate that you were the problem or that you did something wrong.  Why?  It would be sabotaging yourself.  For example, for all you know, the fact that he grabbed your wrists caused them to contract and hence the scratches.

Always maintain your innocence.  Always.  If there is enough doubt then it might get dismissed.  Frankly, he's too dangerous to be around.  Are you planning to divorce?  It might make the officials more willing to help you if you state you've concluded that living with his is too dangerous and you don't want to be a repeat visitor to court.  (If they think you might be coming back over and over then they might help you less, as in "Why bother helping her?  She'll just go right back."

My story... .my ex made death threats, shew as arrested, she refused their attempts to make a plea deal.  (Very smart of her, plea deals usually mean you admit some level of guilt.)  The recording was played, twice she was heard emphatically shouting "I will kill you!"  However, judge referenced case law that said DV threats that were not 'imminent' were not threats.  So she got off, declared Not Guilty and the case was dismissed.

Summary... .stop worrying about him, start worrying about yourself.  Sacrificing yourself won't help him one iota.

[Matt]

I agree with everything FD said, especially about focusing first and foremost on your own legal issues and not worrying about your husband's "dignity".

Several years ago, I was falsely accused of assault by my then-wife, who was later diagnosed with BPD.  I spent one night in jail - she did too.

I was able to get a good criminal defense attorney.  I know you said you can't afford that, but I think your top priority - very quickly - should be to find a way to afford a good criminal defense attorney.

Some might give you an initial consultation for free, and they might be willing to work out a way to pay them.  Or maybe you can borrow money from someone.  It's very important, so I would strongly suggest you find a way to get a good criminal defense attorney.

Whether you can do that or not - even if you stay with your public defender - you should ask your attorney how to delay the trial.  I'm not a lawyer, and things work differently in different states, but it's critical that you be very, very prepared for the trial, and that takes time.  Also, a delay is likely to make the court more sympathetic to you, because more time will have passed with no more problems.  Have your attorney file a motion right away, asking for 30, 60 or even 90 days to prepare.

Also, ask your attorney about deposing your husband.  That's when your husband answers questions from your attorney under oath.  I did this - my lawyer filed a motion to depose my wife - and it helped a lot.  My attorney and I prepared several questions about what happened that night, and my wife's answers conflicted with what she had told the police, so it became even more clear that she was lying.

You can also probably get a copy of the police report, and go through it carefully.  Use it to prepare for your husband's deposition.  In doing this, remember that it's all about keeping you out of jail.

When your husband is deposed, the goal will be to disprove the worst stuff he said about you.  That means he will look bad, but it doesn't matter - all that matters is disproving the case against you.

Remember, this criminal case isn't Mr. Tarantula vs. Mrs. Tarantula.  It's the State vs. Mrs. Tarantula.  Whatever your husband says, it's the prosecutor that matters, and she will be 100% focused on proving you guilty - that's her job - no matter what the evidence shows.  So you need to figure out every piece of evidence she might have against you - your attorney can file a motion demanding that all the evidence be shown to you in advance - and how you can show that it doesn't add up to guilty.

You will probably have to call your husband as a witness, and your attorney must be prepared to show that your husband lied.  He can do that by comparing what your husband said under oath with what the police report says he said at the time.  Your attorney must confront your husband with those discrepancies and make it clear that everything he said means nothing.

You need to meet frequently with your attorney - paid or public - and make 100% sure that he has a solid plan to get you acquitted.  Then make sure he is following through with his plan and leaving nothing to chance.  If he says, "Well I don't have time to do X." tell him this is your life, and he must do X, and if he doesn't have time you demand a different attorney.  Tell him, "If I have to tell the judge that you're not doing your job right, I am prepared to do that rather than lose this case.  Now get X done!".

At some point there will be a plea agreement offered.  Read it carefully and make sure you understand it.  Remember that if you sign it, you can never take that back - it's forever.  If it's reasonable and you decide that signing it is the right thing to do - for example, it might be a misdemeanor plea, not a felony, with little or no jail time - then you're done.  But if you decide not to take a plea agreement, then make sure your lawyer knows that path is not open to him and you are going to trial, so he has to prepare and win.  Many defense attorneys push hard for their clients to take plea agreements, because it makes the lawyer's job easier.  But if that path isn't open - if you decide not to take any plea agreement - that will require your attorney to step up and prepare for trial.

Good luck!

[ForeverDad]

That was Matt's circumstances, his state and prosecutors don't quickly 'drop' charges or cases, I think by law they have to pursue their cases.  However, since we're basically anonymous here and may not be aware of your state, it might be that the way things work in your state are different.  So questions to ask of your defender is how anxious the prosecutor or court are to pursue you.  Is there an option that if your estranged H doesn't appear that your case would be dismissed?  If he does appear, will he be allowed to clear things up?  If this is your first, um, infraction, how willing would they be to listen to your side of the story and let this time pass?

One thing Matt was spot on about... .this is the Big League, potentially this is serious.  Any offered plea deals will start out very strong against you, remember you can always say No.  Will they want to fulfill a quota, teach you a lesson, or will they aim to see if it can be resolved with a minimum of fuss?  We're remote, we don't know whether it will resolve simply or be a really tough struggle.  Keep us informed as things progress.  Don't sign any admissions of guilt unless you're discussed the ramifications thoroughly with your defender, and ask us as well.  Remember, to him/her, you're just another client, perhaps just another perp if they don't look too closely, but to you and us it's your life and future.

Handle every single thing possible as best as you possibly can.  Sorry, He put you in this position, You can't afford to worry about him.  (Actually, as unstable as he is, he's been through the system so much that he probably knows how to slickly maneuver people and walk out virtually unscathed, after all, in one aspect, what more can they do to him that he hasn't done to himself?  So please, please put every effort into rescuing your future!)

Did you get photos of your bruises taken?  Will they listen to your account that he was manhandling you when the scratches happened?  Will he repeat to officials what really happened?  Will the neighbor go to court to support your story?  Who in your life do you have to support your testimony that you've been dancing around his instability for years?  What can you do to weaken his credibility, if it comes to that?  Do you have any documentation of his hospitalizations, his encounters with the police and other agencies?  Can you compare your relatively stable history with his quite volatile history?

Lastly, I may have mentioned this before, officials may be more willing to help you if you have made plans to end the volatile relationship.  If they believe you'll go right back into his arms, they may dismiss going too far out of their way, "Why bother, we'll get more calls from them again, and again."

So you may need to state something like this at some point.  "Your honor, I'm raising two children.  I work hard to support them.  I really believed I could make this marriage work.  But it's been hard, my H has a number of issues and for years I've tried to be the buffer between him and others and his consequences.  I'm concluding now that I can't do that any more, I can't risk my children or my own future.  I didn't cause this incident, my goal has always been to fix things but clearly I can't do that any more, here I am before you, somewhere I never in a hundred years would have imagined possible.  I wasn't aggressive toward my husband but if you can at all accept my account, I will do my best to avoid being in proximity without witnesses so that you'll never see me again in this way."

Okay, maybe you'll never get to make a speech like that.  Who knows?  But the gist is to figure out how best to extricate yourself without being made to look like just another perp coming before the judge.

[tarantula17]

Thank you for the replies so far.

No, the police didn't bother to take pictures of me at all.  I believe it was due to the irritability they were displaying from being called out to the house twice.  I did ask a county jail officer to look over my hands to see if there were any gashes or anything that were proof of me hitting my husband, and she said she didn't see anything that looked like I hurt someone else.

The advice will be taken, I can normally be a strong advocate in circumstances like these, but this time it's my head on a platter and I'm stressing out.  In fact, I have been battling my depression pretty hardcore since I finally healed up from being in jail.  With fibromyalgia, I heal VERY slow.

At this point I am calling the Public Defender every business day to leave a message for them to get back to me.  I have called several national organizations for advice, too, and am collecting my thoughts and efforts in a little more organized fashion the last few days.

No, I really seriously cannot afford any other kind of lawyer, my disability and my son's survivor's insurance gives us a 998/month income.  With all the incidents the last few months stemming from my husband's manic episodes, I have wasted literally hundreds of dollars that I had no room to waste.  We didn't even have Christmas for the children yet, and normally each year I can only spend a little on them anyway.  This year it went to my bailing out of jail and I felt really guilty, but the children were just glad to have me home. Fortunately I did sign up for a program that helps low-income families with gifts, so they have a few each from the program to open when we ARE able to have Christmas.

I am going to talk to his mom after all this is over and let her know I am separating from him until he is well and am not going to bother contacting her, or him through her, until he is well.  I will not accept contact from him, either, during that time.  It may be years for him to get well, it may be never.  I realized this is something he has to do for himself.  As I told other people, after ten years of my own personal turmoil (before I met my husband and our marriage was made), on top of my disability, I have had enough stress and drama to last me a lifetime.  I can't deal with all this and it isn't because I'm not strong enough (I feel I am a strong person), it's just that I realize I can't save the world (Only Jesus can, in my belief). As far as the marriage part, I am going to stay married but separated, since I do not believe in divorce.  The rest is going to be God's hands.

[tarantula17]

Thank you for the replies so far.

Also we have only been married since July, so it hasn't been years I have had to try and help him through his instability.  I feel like it has, but that is maybe why I have more hope in the situation than most.  It doesn't negate the fact that this is a battle I shouldn't be waging and have ever had to wage, especially having children in the middle of the circumstance.

[ForeverDad]

Right now you need to focus on one primary scenario... .your legal outcome in court.  Yes, you of course need to parent at the same time.  But your future, long term and short term, is affected by this court case.  The best outcome is for it to be dismissed, either by the judge deciding things have calmed down now or H not showing up for the hearings that get 'continuances' to new dates, that the court officials conclude you're now a risk of being aggressive or lack of sufficient intent to harm or whatever.

Looking past this, you made a point about hope.  You haven't been married for very long.  You're hoping your sheer intent to help can end up getting him recovered.  Maybe you can, maybe you can't, you at least want to try.  But the problem is that to keep trying you have to be around him and you've just discovered, that's literally and legally dangerous.  Maybe you hope it won't happen again.  You were married just 6 months and had, by my count, at least two separate interactions with police and one arrest.  Looking at just 2016, 1 year, 12 months, 365 days, the numerical risk based from the past 6 months is 4 police encounters and two arrests for 2016.  Maybe you can reduce that risk, maybe avoid some of it, but do you really believe you can avoid all risks while still with him?

I am worried I will lose my kids, do prison time for the felony they are charging me with, my husband may try to commit suicide again, we will lose our housing, etc.

Sorry, but I have to ask, I really want you to ponder well.  What comes first, your hope to help him in some way or your need to protect yourself, your future, your children, your life?  He's an adult, yes a troubled and messed up adult but still an adult and has to face his own consequences.  There are services for him if he will avail himself of them.  You did what you could.  Now follow this link to The Bridge.

[Matt]

Yeah, I can tell you from experience, that if you don't get out of this criminal charge, that's going to impact your life in a big way.

Don't put *anything* ahead of getting the best possible outcome from the criminal charge.

Once that is decided - favorably for you I hope - then you can turn your attention to other things.

[sweetheart]

Thank you ForeverDad for the link to The Bridge. It was powerful.

[livednlearned]

Can you get a copy of the police report? Hopefully the cops wrote down your husband's admission.

Also, to ditto what FD said, do not even imply that you were at fault. Period. In BPD marriages, and in court, when we "justify, argue, defend, or explain" (JADE) our behavior, it just makes things worse.

Matt gave me great advice here a while back, something along the lines of, In court, unless you are 100% guilty, then you are not guilty. That's the logic of court. In our normal lives, (and especially if you're codependent), you feel guilty about things and want to take responsibility. It's important to separate that kind of thinking when you're dealing with family law.

How old are your kids? Did they witness the incident?

[Deb]

Just a couple of questions for you tarantula17: What about YOUR dignity? Don't you deserve that too? You can't love HIM better but you can love yourself enough to be better.

[Matt]

Seconding what LnL asked:  Where I live, you can get a copy of the police report for $5.  It's essential to have that.

When you read it, you need to decide if you can use it to support what you say, or if it works against you.

If it will help you, then you need to make sure it is entered into evidence, and you might also subpoena the officer who wrote it, so he will have to testify.  Your lawyer should then ask him about what he put into the report, to highlight things that are in your favor.

Or... .if the report works against you... .then you need to find out if it will be put in evidence by the prosecutor, and if so, you'll need to work with your lawyer to figure out how to counter that.  For example, you might subpoena the officer who wrote it, and get him to say things on the stand that contradict what he put in the report - show that the report isn't 100% accurate.  Or show that the officer made some assumptions and put things in the report he didn't see first-hand (for example).

The police report may be 99% of the prosecution's case, so you need to figure out how to deal with everything that's in it.  Usually what the police say is assumed to be accurate, unless you show that it's not.

Two ways to win:

One is to prove that what you are charged with is not correct.  For example, if you could prove that you were not in that place at that time, or that you could not have committed that crime for some other reason.  This is the strongest strategy if you have the evidence to back it up;  we're all told that you're "presumed innocent til proven guilty" but it's better to think "they might convict me if I don't prove I'm innocent"... .

The other strategy is to show that the prosecutor hasn't proved you guilty - challenge every specific thing that works against you and show that the judge or jury doesn't really know what happened.  This isn't as strong... .but sometimes it's all you can do.

Make sure your lawyer is pursuing one or the other of these strategies, and that she is executing it thoroughly.  Talk through with her exactly what witnesses she will call... .what evidence she will show... .how she will handle the police report... .what questions she will ask your husband when he is sworn in... .every detail of how she will handle this case in court.  If she isn't 100% prepared, demand that she file an extension ASAP.  Do not allow your attorney to go to trial unless you are completely convinced that she is as prepared as she can possibly be.

The reason I'm emphasizing preparation is that public defenders usually have too many cases and not enough time, so they are often very poorly prepared.  Let your lawyer do a lousy job for all her other clients - demand she do the best possible job for you.

Your lawyer should also coach you on how to handle the trial - what to wear, how to act, whether you should testify or not, and if you testify she should prepare you by asking you every possible question the prosecutor might ask you, and help you work out the best ways to answer.

If you are not getting all those services from your lawyer - and trial is only 8 days away! - you need to recognize that things are not how they should be, and yell STOP!  Demand that your lawyer file an extension - at least 30 days - and consider asking for a different lawyer.  Tell your lawyer, "I need a good defense and I am not getting it from you.  If you can't step up and do the preparation needed, I need you to admit that, and help me get another lawyer who can do it right."

[Matt]

Can you get a copy of the police report? Hopefully the cops wrote down your husband's admission.

Also, to ditto what FD said, do not even imply that you were at fault. Period. In BPD marriages, and in court, when we "justify, argue, defend, or explain" (JADE) our behavior, it just makes things worse.

Matt gave me great advice here a while back, something along the lines of, In court, unless you are 100% guilty, then you are not guilty. That's the logic of court. In our normal lives, (and especially if you're codependent), you feel guilty about things and want to take responsibility. It's important to separate that kind of thinking when you're dealing with family law.

Yeah... .we can feel "responsible" or "partly responsible" for a situation... .but that doesn't mean you committed a serious crime.

Remember, what they have to prove (beyond reasonable doubt) is that you broke the specific law you're charged with.  Not that you aren't perfect, or that you contributed in some way to the situation - that's probably true of all of us.  But that you broke that specific law.

You can probably find the text of the law online for free, or if not get it from your lawyer.  In my state, laws like this are only a few sentences long, in plain English, and they show exactly what the prosecutor must prove.

Let me give you an example:

Someone I know was wrongly charged with armed robbery.  (The charge was ultimately dropped.)  We looked up the law online and found that it had 2 requirements:  First, they had to prove that he either stole something, or tried to steal it;  and second, that he either had a weapon, or made the victim believe he had a weapon (like holding your hand in your pocket to look like a gun).  When his lawyer looked at the evidence - and remember, the prosecutor can't use any evidence in the trial which she hasn't first provided to the defense! - they had zero evidence that anything was stolen, or that he had tried to steal anything;  and zero evidence that he had a weapon, or that he had pretended to have one.  The statement given by the "victim" at the time said nothing about a weapon at all!

So... .his attorney was able to argue - before it ever got to trial - that the state had no evidence at all which supported the charge of armed robbery.  And the argument was based on the words of the law he was charged with breaking.

So... .in your case, if you and your lawyer both read the words of the law(s) you're charged with breaking, you might see things there which will let you structure your defense accordingly.  For example, it might mention "intent" - meaning that the prosecutor has to prove you intended to hurt your husband.

Make sure your lawyer is focused on the specific charge(s) against you, and what the prosecutor must specifically prove.

[ForeverDad]

You have a debilitating chronic illness.  While you shouldn't fake or exaggerate its impact on your health, could your health issues be introduced as significant factors to lend credence to a depiction of you as a person who is not able to be very aggressive and instead tries to avoid painful encounters.  That may make a difference when contrasted with his history of self-harm, volatility, greater strength, presumably larger size, etc.

[Matt]

You have a debilitating chronic illness.  While you shouldn't fake or exaggerate its impact on your health, could your health issues be introduced as significant factors to lend credence to a depiction of you as a person who is not able to be very aggressive and instead tries to avoid painful encounters.  That may make a difference when contrasted with his history of self-harm, volatility, greater strength, presumably larger size, etc.

Yes... .this doesn't prove that he's entirely at fault, but you don't have to prove that.  You only have to call into question whether it's reasonable to believe that you attacked him... .

[Matt]

Another aspect to understand - and I'm not a lawyer, and only have my own personal experience, and things vary from state to state - is the "self defense" aspect... .

My understanding is there are two ways this can work.

First, there's "self defense" - pretty basic - "Yes I hit him but it was in self defense - he attacked me and I had to fight back or I could have been hurt badly or killed."  You need to know exactly what the rules are - when it's OK to say you acted in self-defense - how the law works in your state.

Second, in some states, there's "stand your ground", which means that you could have run but you chose not to.  It may be OK to say, "I could have gotten away, but I chose to defend myself, my home, my kids"... .but you would need very good legal advice to make sure that it's a valid defense in your state and in your specific situation.

[tarantula17]

My children are ten and five. No they did not witness anything, I had planned on them going to my neighbor's when I realized my husband's episodes were coming on. They had backpacks of spare clothing, books and toys made up and kept at the neighbor's so they would have their own things once over there.

Trying to get a hold of anyone governmental is painfully slow during Christmas and the New Year. Going to buckle down efforts on Monday.

At this point, I am not sure my husband will show up or not to court. I set what I believe is healthy boundaries in taking him I will no longer talk with him when he wants to share with me about him self-harming, his suicide or his funeral. He sent me a video about abuse, claims I am gaslighting him and has not spoken to me since. I admit it is a nice break from the drama and turmoil, but it also makes me feel empty. I shared the list of abuse found here with him in a copy/paste email, outlined the 3/4 of the things he has put me through, and doubt he will read it.

If I can pin down communication with my defender, I will see about doing the thing where they make him come to court. I have absolutely no clue how it would blow over at that point. He could surprise me and come anyway - I recently had an 'aha' moment why everyone of our mutual friends are no longer friends with me. To them He would paint me as this picture perfect person, that he is blessed by and prayed for for years. Then he turns around and dumps all this terrible behavior on me that no one else gets to see, or rarely sees. He would tell his mom (been talking to her secretly or he would flip out on his mom) that he couldn't let me go to jail for what happened, but give me a three hour long depressing and clinging sad state that I left the conversation drained by. Walking on eggshells, yes, us a good way to put it. Then when I de-stressed and vented my frustrations, people think my husband is the gentleman hero that loves me so much, how dare I even suggests he had hit me, or threw things at me, or tried to choke me, or drinks and drives as one of his first manic episode coping means?

If he didn't have the episodes, he would be the perfect guy for me. Seriously. But I am more and more okay with this space and distance between us as time passes.

[ForeverDad]

I strongly recommend you don't tell him you're a member here.  It's been a long time since I checked but that requirement is probably part of the Terms of Service here too.  For most of us anonymity is utterly vital, not necessarily between members but particularly anonymous regarding our spouses and ex-spouses.  You may mention details here or we may express strategies or other information here that should remain highly confidential.  (For example, some of our boards here can be accessed only by members when logged in, such as this one, "Family Law".  We don't want this board and a few of the others here to be indexed for web searches.)

When a marriage is healthy and improving, appropriate sharing is vital, trust is needed.  But in a troubled marriage where one spouse may need to ask sensitive questions or obtain sensitive information, then privacy and confidentiality takes priority over trust.

Remember, you have a right to privacy just as he does.  You also have a right not to be interrogated, pressured, etc.

Edit:  Another reason not to share information with his is that your relationship has reached a point where he may not listen to anything contrary to his perceptions.  There's just so much emotional baggage that your points get lost or even twisted and used against you.  Perhaps a neutral professional such as a therapist may make some progress with him, but your history of a deeply emotional close relationship creates or triggers a barrier that you may not be able to surmount.

Do you have an order prohibiting or restricting some methods of contact with him?  If so, be sure to follow it to the letter.  Courts view violations very seriously, they don't want more incidents.

Sometimes we too have shared information with our spouses and ex-spouses.  Sometimes such well intentioned efforts backfired on us and the other persons alleged (projected) their behaviors onto us.  Projection is a common blaming and blame-shifting tactic.  Sad to say, trying to reason with someone that their behaviors are unreasonable is a risky tactic, especially when you're already at a legal disadvantage.

[Matt]

If you are being tried for a crime, you have some rights.

You have the right to subpoena any witness who you believe should testify.  You probably also have the right for your attorney to talk with the witness - your husband for example - before the trial, to find out what your husband will say at the trial.

You need to know whether the prosecution will have your husband testify or not.  If the prosecution will have your husband testify, your lawyer should absolutely depose (question under oath) your husband at least two weeks before the trial.  Since that is not possible, your lawyer should file a motion saying "The defense cannot be prepared by January 8 so the trial should be delayed."

If the prosecution does not intended to call your husband as a witness - that tells you a lot.  It tells you that the prosecution doesn't want your husband to testify under oath at the trial... .probably because he would make a mess of things.  In that case, you need to consider whether it may be in your interest to subpoena him - make him testify at the trial - and in that case your lawyer must also depose him at least two weeks before the trial.  So again - delay is essential.

It is not up to your husband whether he will testify or not.  If the prosecution subpoenas him, he must testify.  If the defense subpoenas him, he must testify.  In either case, if he does not appear at the trial, your lawyer should be prepared to ask for the charge(s) to be dropped without trial.  If the only witness other than yourself is not at the trial, they cannot possibly convict you, so there should be no trial.

The fact that your lawyer has not made herself available to you, and there is only a week left before the trial, means that you cannot possibly be prepared to defend yourself well.  You must demand that your lawyer file a motion immediately, for a delayed trial.  If your lawyer doesn't do that, you can probably do it yourself - go to the court house Monday and ask there about the proper procedure.  The worst mistake you can make is going to trial unprepared.

You should also consider whether this lawyer is capable and willing to do the job properly.  If you decide she is not up to the job, demand another attorney ASAP.  Make it clear to your lawyer that if you have to go to court with her as your attorney, you will tell the judge in open court that your attorney does not represent you and that you need a proper attorney to be appointed and to have time to prepare your defense.

Some more options to consider:

* Maybe subpoena your husband's mother, so your attorney can ask her about what he told her.  She will be under oath and will have to say that he told her a different story from what he told the police.

* Consider filing civil charges against your husband.

* Talk to a prosecutor - not the one who is prosecuting you - about criminal charges against your husband.

Have you read the text of the laws you are charged with breaking?  Can you say for sure that you did (or did not) break those laws?

[Matt]

I strongly recommend you don't tell him you're a member here.  It's been a long time since I checked but that requirement is probably part of the Terms of Service here too.  For most of us anonymity is utterly vital, not necessarily between members but particularly anonymous regarding our spouses and ex-spouses.  You may mention details here or we may express strategies or other information here that should remain highly confidential.  (For example, some of our boards here can be accessed only by members when logged in, such as this one, "Family Law".  We don't want this board and a few of the others here to be indexed for web searches.)

When a marriage is healthy and improving, appropriate sharing is vital, trust is needed.  But in a troubled marriage where one spouse may need to ask sensitive questions or obtain sensitive information, then privacy and confidentiality takes priority over trust.

Remember, you have a right to privacy just as he does.  You also have a right not to be interrogated, pressured, etc.

Yes - this is very important.

Right now you need to have no contact with your husband - none - no e-mail, no phone calls, and absolutely no face-to-face - at least until your criminal charges are resolved.

Tell your lawyer to inform your husband in writing that you want no contact with him at all.  If he violates that request, you should get a "restraining order" or "order of protection".

Continued contact between you and your husband puts you both at higher risk for going to jail.

[Matt]

I strongly recommend you don't tell him you're a member here.  It's been a long time since I checked but that requirement is probably part of the Terms of Service here too.  For most of us anonymity is utterly vital, not necessarily between members but particularly anonymous regarding our spouses and ex-spouses.  You may mention details here or we may express strategies or other information here that should remain highly confidential.  (For example, some of our boards here can be accessed only by members when logged in, such as this one, "Family Law".  We don't want this board and a few of the others here to be indexed for web searches.)

When a marriage is healthy and improving, appropriate sharing is vital, trust is needed.  But in a troubled marriage where one spouse may need to ask sensitive questions or obtain sensitive information, then privacy and confidentiality takes priority over trust.

Remember, you have a right to privacy just as he does.  You also have a right not to be interrogated, pressured, etc.

Yes - this is very important.

Right now you need to have no contact with your husband - none - no e-mail, no phone calls, and absolutely no face-to-face - at least until your criminal charges are resolved.

Tell your lawyer to inform your husband in writing that you want no contact with him at all.  If he violates that request, you should get a "restraining order" or "order of protection".

Continued contact between you and your husband puts you both at higher risk for going to jail.

Here's how talking with your husband or anyone who might talk with him can send you to jail:

You are a criminal defendant.  Your husband is the primary witness to the alleged crime(s).  Talking with him about the trial - or anything remotely related to the accusations against you - can be considered "witness tampering" - which is a crime.

So... .even if they can't prove you committed the crime(s) you're charged with, you can be convicted of another crime - witness tampering - and that may be just as serious, or more so.  You could go to prison for witness tampering... .even if you're not convicted of assault.

Or... .if the judge learns about the tampering before or during your trial, that could make it harder for you to be acquitted.  You will be seen as someone who is not honest enough to let the system work - someone who is trying to avoid a fair trial by persuading or manipulating the witness to say what you want.  Long story short:  you will look guilty.

Here's how your husband could go to jail if he talks with you:

Right now - though you may not know it, and he may not know it - he is the prosecutor's main witness - a "witness for the prosecution".  But if he screws up the prosecutor's case, by talking with you and saying contradictory things - to his mom or whoever - and if that leads to your acquittal, the prosecutor may turn on your husband, and accuse him of something - maybe say he's at fault for the fight, or say that he lied at the trial.  And suddenly you may go free... .and he may go to jail.  (Not saying he shouldn't go to jail if he assaulted you... .that's another subject.)

So... .

Your attorney should have explained this to you, and she didn't.  Which shows she is not doing her job and you cannot possibly be ready for trial by January 8.

[ForeverDad]

Matt faced a very strict court.  In his state, once charges are filed the case almost takes a life of its own.  Even the original complainant may not be able to derail it.

Your state may have different laws and procedures that are not so onerous but we have no way of knowing.  Besides, we're peer support, not lawyers.  That's why Matt so strongly urged affirmative action.  So do see what your defender says.  Try to find out how things work in your area.  Avoid "plea deals" like the plague if at all possible.  They are shortcuts offered to the 'perps' that save the lawyers and courts time but means innocent people can get swept up and painted as guilty 'perps' too.  (Perps is short for perpetrators of crime.)

My state was more laid back.  When my now-ex was arrested, she faced a charge of Threat of DV.  I made sure I appeared from each appearance.  There were a couple appearances where the deputy DA tried to convince her to take a plea deal.  She refused.  Then he tried to see if I would let it go.  Having been warned of this by the officer who filed my report, I declined.  So court just adjourned to later dates, that's all.  Continuances are common in court.  It think it was the third time we finally had the trial.  (It was clear the judge was not seeking to find her guilty, it was the end of the day and he wanted to go home.  She was found Not Guilty when the judge applied case law interpretations to conclude her death threats weren't 'imminent' and therefore he ruled it wasn't DV.)  I suspect that if I didn't attend the appearances her case might have been dismissed.  I don't know.  I suspect he was lenient on her since she had no rap sheet or history of DV, it was her first time in court.  I also suspect that if I, a male, had been before him for the same actions that I wouldn't have been so fortunate.

My point is that it would be good to get a feel for how cases like this usually turn out in your local area.  We can speculate all we want and still not know how aggressive or how forgiving your court will be.  So... .hope for the best (least unfavorable outcome) but prepare for the worst.

[Matt]

Matt faced a very strict court.  In his state, once charges are filed the case almost takes a life of its own.  Even the original complainant may not be able to derail it.

Your state may have different laws and procedure that are not so onerous but we have no way of knowing.  Besides, we're peer support, not lawyers.  That's why Matt so strongly urged affirmative action.

My state was more laid back.  When my now-ex was arrested, she faced a charge of Threat of DV.  I made sure I appeared from each appearance.  There were a couple appearances where the deputy DA tried to convince her to take a plea deal.  She refused.  Then he tried to see if I would let it go.  Having been warned of this by the officer I made my report to, I declined.  So court just adjourned to later dates.  Continuances are common in court.  It think it was the third time we finally had the trial.  (It was clear the judge was not seeking to find her guilty, it was the end of the day and he wanted to go home.  She was found Not Guilty when the judge applied case law interpretations to conclude her death threats weren't 'imminent' and therefore he ruled it wasn't DV.)  I suspect that if I didn't attend the appearances her case might have been dismissed.  I don't know.  I suspect he was lenient on her since she had no rap sheet or history of DV, it was her first time in court.  I also suspect that if I, a male, had been before him for the same actions that I wouldn't have been so fortunate.

My point is that it would be good to get a feel for how cases like this usually turn out in your local area.  We can speculate all we want and still not know how aggressive or how forgiving your court will be.  So... .hope for the best (least unfavorable outcome) but prepare for the worst.

Very good points.

It's also possible that what you are describing as a "trial" may really be a "pre-trial hearing" - a meeting between you and the prosecutor (which your lawyer may or may not attend) so the prosecutor can discuss a possible plea agreement with you.

Unless you are 100% sure you want to do a plea agreement, make sure you plead innocent at each step along the way.  That keeps your options open... .

[livednlearned]

It's also possible that what you are describing as a "trial" may really be a "pre-trial hearing" - a meeting between you and the prosecutor (which your lawyer may or may not attend) so the prosecutor can discuss a possible plea agreement with you.

Unless you are 100% sure you want to do a plea agreement, make sure you plead innocent at each step along the way.  That keeps your options open... .

Be sure, too, to find out what the long-term repercussions are of making a plea agreement. Attorneys will make it seem like a good idea to say yes, you did xyz, because the charges will get dropped. But admission of guilt may show up on your permanent record and follow your employment history.

Courts want to keep people out of their chambers. They want fewer people plugging up the judge's time -- it costs more money to go to trial, and they don't want to see repeat offenders cycling through their doors, using the courts to solve their problems. If you come across as someone who does not understand their objective (to keep you out of their system), then you will become a problem to them.

You have to accept that your husband is dangerous to you and your kids. Court will want to hear this from you.

You have to accept that, despite his illness, and despite his good qualities, he is abusive and dangerous.

You have to believe that you are worth protecting, and that your kids need a mama who is not in and out of jail.

[Matt]

Courts want to keep people out of their chambers. They want fewer people plugging up the judge's time -- it costs more money to go to trial, and they don't want to see repeat offenders cycling through their doors, using the courts to solve their problems. If you come across as someone who does not understand their objective (to keep you out of their system), then you will become a problem to them.

You have to accept that your husband is dangerous to you and your kids. Court will want to hear this from you.

You have to accept that, despite his illness, and despite his good qualities, he is abusive and dangerous.

You have to believe that you are worth protecting, and that your kids need a mama who is not in and out of jail.

Another good point.

I was successful in getting the charges against me dropped completely.  (For the record, they were ":)omestic violence assault", "Creating a public disturbance" and ":)estruction of private property" - all misdemeanors.)

One key to getting them dropped completely - no trial and no plea agreement - was that I was prepared by my attorney, who coached me that the judge was likely to ask what I would do if the charges were dropped.  I said, "I'm going to continue living separately from my wife, and no contact with her, while I see if she will agree to therapy and maybe the marriage can be saved." (or something like that).

The reason this worked is exactly what LnL said:  The judge could hear me saying that I wouldn't be back in her courtroom next week, because I would be staying away from my wife until and unless the problem got treated.

(As it turned out, we went to four marriage counselors - all picked by my wife - with no progress.  Finally the fourth one - who was affiliated with my wife's church and really knew what she was doing - identified BPD as the underlying problem and recommended that my wife get treatment... .which my wife refused... .and that was the end of my hope to save the marriage.)

If what the judge hears from you sounds like "more of the same", she may be harsh with you.  But if what she hears sounds like a practical solution - a path forward that will keep you out of her courtroom - then she is more likely to rule the way you want.

[Duck_Borders]

Your Husband sounds like a very severe case.  He won't get better.  Don't worry about his dignity, or about him at all for that matter.  That's hard to do I know, but if anything do it for your kids.  Your Husband won't do you the same courtesy of worrying about your dignity, I promise you that. 

This sounds like a terrible relationship that you should start preparing to exit right now.  Buy the book Splitting and prepare for a long haul of false accusations and manipulation. 

If your Husband has prior incidents with the law, make sure you have a record of them.  Trust me, the people in his past did not abandon him, he did a similar thing to them and they ran.

I really hope you can find a way out of this.  I hope that as a woman the family court system will be kinder to you than it is to most men. 

Good luck!

My husband has bipolar and BPD.  He self-harms, and has cut, burned and hit himself quite a few times over the last few months.  A few nights ago, he tried overdosing on a new prescription he was trying out (and stopped taking them thankfully and thankfully was stabilized by paramedics who showed up at his mom's house where he was staying).

On December 6th, he was in an emotional rage and not only cut his face open by hitting himself with his fist, he took my hands and put them to his throat, then started making choking noises.  I had my hands on his chest trying to push past him in the hall to get outside and get help.  I ended up closing my hands when he made the noises, realizing with horror and fear that he was using ME to hurt HIM.  When I managed to pull away from him (he left bruises on my hands from holding me so tightly to him) he yelled 'Hit me! Hit me!' and I yelled 'No!' and ran outside to call 911.  Not before he managed to wipe some blood on my left arm.  I am not a professional therapist or anything, but I had this feeling afterwards that he was trying to prove the very person he trusts the most is willing to hurt and abandon him like all the other people in his life.  But I wouldn't intentionally hurt him - part of that was the way we were raised, that violence isn't the answer, and part of it is my messed up fight or flight response due to fibromyalgia.  Anything stressful or dramatic and I want to get away from it as fast as humanely possible.

The police showed up and arrested me.  I didn't know until my arraignment (never been to jail before or run in with the law, so this was all new to me) that me closing my fists had left scratch marks on my husband's neck, so the police thought I tried to choke him and hit him. 

How do I prove my innocence, my character and still maintain the dignity of my very ashamed, embarrassed husband?  While in an emotional rage, he told them I did hurt him and then in a wash of abandonment issues seeing them haul me off, he told them he did in fact hurt himself.  I am worried I will lose my kids, do prison time for the felony they are charging me with, my husband may try to commit suicide again, we will lose our housing, etc.  I am professionally trained as a chronic pain advocate because I did work with the chronic pain community for years (I am very community-minded), but this boggles me and I am severely worn out with this all.  I can't afford a lawyer for the trial January 8th, so I have a public defender.

Advice?

[Matt]

Your Husband sounds like a very severe case.  He won't get better.

I've read a bit about whether someone with BPD or a similar problem can get better.

One study done by a group connected with Harvard Medical School found that when people with BPD get the proper treatment, and follow through for 5 years, more than 80% of them do very well.  They don't get "cured", but they are able to act right and feel much better.

But here's the problem... .

Most people with BPD won't accept treatment.  My ex, for example, was diagnosed with BPD, and was ordered by a judge to get treatment - at no cost to her.  By not accepting it, she put her rights to see the kids at risk.  But she ignored the order - that was several years ago - and continues to act like she always did - and no happier than when we were married.

I think that's pretty typical.  Getting treatment would be the best thing for your husband... .but it's very unlikely he will.

[Duck_Borders]

My Dad is a clinical psychologist and through him I've been lucky enough to access a few other psychiatrists that specialize in BPD/NPD.  I actually brought my ex to one psychiatrist for what we told her was "couples therapy".  She only went once, and then left the country (although she did at one point ask if she could do couples therapy with myself and the shrink through facetime... .a ridiculous proposition IMO).  She claimed she was fine and I was the one with major problems and needed help. 

I've been seeing the same shrink for 2 years now.  We have a great relationship and he's helped me understand some of this craziness and manage my own emotions.  He's also helped be a mirror for me and help me realize that as much as I hated my ex, I wanted to fight for custody of my son, because without me, my son is destined for a life of misery being raised by this poor excuse of a person. 

Anyways, when I was still in the denial phase thinking I could help my ex get better, I asked my shrink how many BPD's he's successfully helped recover.  He said 1 in 5000... .  that number has stuck with me since, and I realized it wasn't possible to help her pretty quickly after that. 

As my Dad puts it - they don't get better, only a very few of them learn how to manage their outbursts and "act" normal.  They still have their insane thoughts and beliefs, but they learn that "normal" people don't respond well to terrible insults and violent attacks and they learn that they cannot do that in society and be accepted.

Your Husband sounds like a very severe case.  He won't get better.

I think that's pretty typical.  Getting treatment would be the best thing for your husband... .but it's very unlikely he will.

[tarantula17]

You have a debilitating chronic illness.  While you shouldn't fake or exaggerate its impact on your health, could your health issues be introduced as significant factors to lend credence to a depiction of you as a person who is not able to be very aggressive and instead tries to avoid painful encounters.  That may make a difference when contrasted with his history of self-harm, volatility, greater strength, presumably larger size, etc.

Fibromyalgia has messed up my "fight or flight" response, so I want to get away from any dramatic or stressful situation really quick.  If I don't, my cogntive dysfunction kicks in and my body starts shutting down.  For extreme example, my pregnancy with my daughter flared my symptoms so the pregnancy was very  hard on me.  My mother had a brain anuerysm rupture five years ago and I drove through the whole state of Wisconsin down to Ohio where she was flight-for-life taken.  My sister caused so much drama, my fight-or-flight kicked into overdrive.  Driving + hard pregnancy due to illness + sister's drama = no matter what anyone told me or for the mere fact that my mom was in a coma, I told them "I have to go home", got in my pickup and drove straight north.  Would've ended up in Michigan if my cousin hadn't jumped into the truck to go with me.  I should not have been on the road that day; it took me a few hours to actually come to my literal senses.

I realize that when my husband goes into his episodes, I want to get away asap.  I can't handle the stress.

As far as the public defender, I keep trying to get a hold of her.  I talked to her yesterday, but she was so busy that she was going to call me back later in the afternoon, and never did.  I think she serves two or three counties, so I understand she is busy, but I am seriously nervous at this point.  Mom's letting me use her car so I can go get the police reports.

[tarantula17]

Your Husband sounds like a very severe case.  He won't get better.

I've read a bit about whether someone with BPD or a similar problem can get better.

One study done by a group connected with Harvard Medical School found that when people with BPD get the proper treatment, and follow through for 5 years, more than 80% of them do very well.  They don't get "cured", but they are able to act right and feel much better.

But here's the problem... .

Most people with BPD won't accept treatment.  My ex, for example, was diagnosed with BPD, and was ordered by a judge to get treatment - at no cost to her.  By not accepting it, she put her rights to see the kids at risk.  But she ignored the order - that was several years ago - and continues to act like she always did - and no happier than when we were married.

I think that's pretty typical.  Getting treatment would be the best thing for your husband... .but it's very unlikely he will.

My husband does accept the fact that he has BPD and will be the first one up in the morning to call the therapist's office to see if he can get in sooner.  He recognizes the fact that it is tearing us all up and I can see him trying to deal with/cope with the issues at hand.  I think that is the only reason I have left, aside from my spiritual belief, that gives me any hope for him and for us.