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Something a little strange happened at Xmas. It's not that he hasn't done similar things before but it leaves me so bewildered how an otherwise fully functioning person can choose to behave like this and how does it actually play out in his (their) minds.

Background:

My uBPDbf (perhaps ex as we broke up a week before Xmas but he doesn't seem to think we are broken up anyway somehow) had decided to spend Xmas just him and his kids and leave me and my D alone by ourselves. He has been depressed and down for a while and that was the reason he gave me. It seems he is triangulating (read definition) (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0) me and his kids at the moment. We have been together for 4 years and during that time he has fluctuated between needing me to be his everything, and a mom to his kids and for us to be as close as possible having a totally symbiotic r/s to pushing me away, needing space, distance, as pwBPDs do. But lately he was even talking about moving in together, about getting married.

Here's the thing:

We spoke every day leading up to him and his kids leaving for Xmas. He told me he was feeling so guilty for hurting me. Then I don't hear from him for a couple of days but on Xmas Day he sends me a text, obviously a group text because I got it on both my phones at the same time exactly, but also because it read: "Merry Xmas and have a great day with your loved ones" and he knows I have no family. When I ask if this is a group text he says yes and immediately sends me another one basically the same but in our other language (we have two). I respond by telling him that's not very special and he sends me this: "That one was special. You don't send me anything nor do you appreciate anything."

What is that all about? Why do they all of a sudden reduce us to having no importance in their lives? He has made me #1 in his life which he has also told me I am on a number of occasions. I know it is the illness, but how does it actually work? Does he all of a sudden feel that I have a new detached connection to him or can't he remember how close we really are or is it more of a calculated thing to hurt me? And about his response - can he really be angry or upset and hurt that I didn't appreciate his treating me like I am just anybody in his life… really? Can he seriously not understand that I would be hurt by this text from him when he blew me off over Xmas?

All i had to do was read the title and know that I could relate. I really can relate. My wife and I, who are currently separated, had a wonderful holiday together with our daughter. In fact the last 2 weeks have been wonderful. Then yesterday afternoon something was said that I was hurt by and I tried to express it in the same ways I have been, which is using statements such as "I felt hurt when I heard you say that" which is how our couple's therapist has been asking us to work on it. I also said I take responsibility for my reaction but unlike normal all hell broke loose after that and today got really bad.

I have been wondering the same thing as you, especially when she told me she doesn't "owe" me any common courtesy or to be polite to me! I was speechless. Needless to say I understand what you are talking about, and I have no answers but I do look forward to seeing the relies. I had planned to write on this issue myself but you pretty much covered my question.

Hi Mitti!

I know this doesn't really give you an answer to your question, however, it is the only thing I can think of, he is mentally ill, and there isn't logic behind all of the behaviors. Remember, pwBPD are motivated by emotion, and live in the moment. Perhaps he is emotionally distraught over your recent struggles too, and just cannot get himself under control. I do see some projection here too. There are some things about himself and his behavior that he doesn't like, so he manages to twist it around as if it is you behaving in a hurtful way.

Bottom line, the best way to handle these questions is through Radical Acceptance. It doesn't give us answers the way we really want them, it allows us to just accept things the way they are, and know that mental illness can create a lot of confusion for them and us. I'll tell you the truth, I still get frustrated by the same stuff as you, however, I feel better knowing what is behind it all, and that I am not imagining  things. Sometimes I even smile when the crap is flying because I don't take it seriously anymore! I know you've been around long enough to be familiar with RA, but perhaps a refresher review will help. I reread the workshop on it all the time!

Best Wishes,

Val78

Hi thisyoungdad,

Yes, this seems to be so common with pwBPDs and it has always puzzled me how they might intellectualize such behavior or responses when to us nons it seems out of place, weird, or just downright bizarre. Cos even though, they base their conclusions on emotions rather than logic, in their minds it must seem logical, at least at the time.

Hi Val78,

Thank you. I do know it's the illness of course but I guess what I am wondering, as in my response to thisyoungdad, is how they would rationalize this in their own minds, what cognitive patterns would make my bfs text to me on Xmas Day seem valid to him when it is odd to most people? And I mean his first text where he is treating me as though I were an acquaintance, nothing more and as though we have no history and haven't recently gone through some very emotional turmoil together.

In his response to my text I believe you are right that he is projecting though I am not sure exactly why more than feeling shame because I called him on his weird text. I usually never do things like that and so he might have felt safe to send it.

This kind of thing appears so commonplace with pwBPDs I am thinking there might be some research into why and how to approach this. What would a T do?

And about RA, I feel that it is gradually getting easier, some days are easier than others though, although I still would like to know what is at the core of some of these behaviors.

Hi Mitti,

I think issue may be related to object constancy.  The old saying out of sight out of mind is very true with borderlines.  There are articles on this website about it.

Thanks oneneatguy,

I remember reading about object constancy when I first came on here but reading up on it again, I realize that I never really understood how it plays out. I found this from another thread, and thought it was so on the spot.


This explains how he cannot remember good feelings associated with me or our r/s. Of course it doesn't account for why he seemingly can't remember the role I have had in his life but perhaps that is more to do with a need to distance himself emotionally from me and hence also whatever guilt he has told me he feels, which might also be the reason he text me at all on Xmas Day.

What to do though? I didn't find anything about whatever tools we may have to deal with this. He is obviously still wanting contact with me, keep me in his life and I am still unsure whether I do or not. In fact, whether or not I do, is probably almost totally dependent on how we might be able to deal with situations like this, caused by object constancy and projection, i.e. his distorted recollection of events.

Any ideas? Has anybody dealt with this in T?

Mitti

Only you can decide if you want to stay connected or not. Emotionally I am still attached to my ex, however I am burning the bridges.  I have told my ex I do not want to have contact with her.  I know that NC is for the best, though it hurts like crazy.

I am also having a hard time accepting that the love we shared & memories we made seem to have no profound effect on the other half of the equation that made "us." The promises, the love, the staying up all night talking like teenage girls at a slumber party, the road trips, the struggles we made it through, my loyalty, my faith in him when he didn't even believe in himself all = nothing.

Like he just took an eraser over the chalk board of his life and I must have just been imagining this... .  

Washisheart- Sadly I totally understand exactly how you are feeling. It is a horrible and heartbreaking place to be. I have spent the past few months wondering how in the hell or why in the hell this is all happening while frantically trying to make sense of it; only to learn I won't make sense of it probably. Now I get to move on to acceptance and I don't really want to because it hurts like hell but I am slowly seeing how on the days I can live in acceptance my life feels better, but those days are still kind of rare.

That's where I am tyd.

This morning I felt great & re-energized for life. Then it got dark out, and my two friends were with their bf's where I was hanging so I just came home. Three weeks ago he was hanging there with me. Now I dont exist

One thing I notice, is that most of the people on this board pine away for their ex BPD partners.

We should be focusing on ourselves, both in growing as people and making sure our needs are addressed.  I can say in my relationship it was always about her needs.  I remember we went for pre-marriage counselling.

After 2 hours of counselling, the counsellor said to my ex I have heard all about your needs and turned to me and said what about your needs I haven't heard them yet.

One suggestion I have  for NC  is to make a list of all the negative behaviour your partner exhibited.  When you feel yourself pining for the "good times" read the list, mine is like a cold slap in the face, a reminder of why I should never attempt to go back.

Hey Mitti!

Are you two going to continue your couples counseling? (I thought you said you had been going) Perhaps that would be a good place to explore those questions.

I have to say, that I have not experienced quite that level of forgetting things, however, as many of us have noted, our pwBPD is all about the moment. You have the names for all the behaviors, object constancy and projection, and I agree, that's what it sounds like. I also understand your frustration in having to deal with these behaviors, and although you have a name, and accept it, are still frustrated by having to face it, and don't know what to do about it!

I know for me, just simply ceasing to look for logic, and recognizing the behaviors for what they are has been enough. When I see these things happening, I know in my mind what it is, and am acting on heightened awareness, not allowing myself to be pulled into the madness. You're there Mitti. You've educated yourself, gotten yourself on a good path, and are taking care of yourself. Stay on the path, and don't allow yourself to be tortured by questions that may not even have any real answers. I think he has to come to his own conclusions about the direction he wants to go, and so do you. It may always be this way, and it sounds like you know that on some level, and just cannot make the break while he is still sending mixed signals. Now there's a concept I really get, however, it's wearing very thin for me since I started the practice oneneatguy suggested, of listing the stuff I don't like, and don't want to live with forever!

Best Wishes,

Val78

Yes, it's not easy. I understand how hard it must have been for you to come a decision to go NC from your ex. Detachment is painful. I haven't decided yet what I want. But I do feel more and more certain that my decision will depend on whether I find a way to tackle projection. I always used to feel we might have a fair chance to make it. We have been in CT for almost a year and saw tremendous progress. It's hard to let that go. I know now though I can which in itself is progress for me from before when I just had no way of dealing with the pain of losing him. I can deal with it now but I'd rather not. I don't want to give up if we still have a chance.

Yes, it's just bizarre how they manage to do erase the good as though it never existed or happened. Throughout our 4 years together this and projection has been the hardest to deal with. Do you still hear from your ex?

Absolutely, we should be focusing on ourselves. So far I have made such a list mentally only but at least now I am able to remind myself whenever memories get too painful and it provides instant relief actually. But we are not NC and I am not ready to do that either yet but yes, I am prepared should it come to that, it might. But for as long as I see some way of solving whatever issues are hindering progress I prefer to try that. Since he has been so willing to look at himself, went for CT before and is now in T himself, I would be willing to try again should I only get a better understanding of how to deal with his distorted memories. For now he seems to be holding on to them for fear of feelings of guilt. I guess the reality of it is too scary and painful for him.

Our T said something similar to us once, as your pre-marriage counsellor, and helped me voice and communicate my needs to my bf. It was hard for him for he felt this implied his needs would be disregarded, with his black and white thinking. But it clarified things for me and made me realize I had never really let him know what my needs were/are.

Whashiheart and all of you thank you for having the courage to share your life.  This site has done so much to help me move through my incredibly painful recent ending of my seven week of marriage.  I will offer a point of view on the object constancy. My natural inclination is to mourn and grieve the fact that I have lost permanently my exBPD's positive perception of me.  I will forever be our last experience which to her moved her to black.  But could you imagine living a life where you could no longer recall any of your own positive experiences from you life.  At best it would be like looking at a movie you had seen with characters you loved but in this revised screening there is a fog that cloaks them.  You can make out that they are there but there is no longer clarity. My positive childhood memories gone, my positive accomplishments gone, my prior positive love experiences gone.  I would move forward in life into new relationships not only unable to recall what positives I have experienced in the past, not what negatives that cause me to damage relationships.   I am not BPD, but I do recall leaving relationships thinking it was 'her' more than me.  Yet as future relationships ensued I noticed the same issues coming up, realizing I was the common denominator.  This allowed me to grow and have better relationships.  These relationships ended but each one ended with more empathy am less drama.  These people were not BPD.  So this marriage and it's demise was it a big step backwards?  It certainly was more painful, confusing even bizarre; but it also brought me to a new realization:  All of us to a certain degree are addicted to 'control' in most relationships we can maintain a delusion that life can managed, predictable, certain, fair etc.  I believe the BPD in my life shattered this delusion; as I move towards the acceptance of this, if I can actually arrive there I will be more free in my life moving forward; and in that present to new joys that will come when I can stop looking back at what "should" have been or "could have" been.   Happy New Year!

No I dont hear from him. It's probably better that way. I am sure eventually I will.

It is strange for me, as a newbie, to hear all these familiar stories.  I am divorced from my BPD ex-wife.  I still try to help her take cfare of things, as I was always the "rock".  I left my house the other night in advance of an impending snowstorm to stay at her house so I could clear the driveway for her.  She has hip and back issues, but mostly of convenience. (meaning it is a good source of sympathy if I let it be.  She still walks 2 miles a day with the dog) I stayed, cleared all the snow, brought milk and supplies to her mother, took care of things in the house, etc.  All very nice.  Today, 3 days later, she tells me I'm doing that for a motive of some kind and I deserve no credit for it? Out of the blue!  I'm not looking for credit, but this behavior certainly makes me want to just let her worry about it herself next time.  That's what my therapist, friends and family have been telling me for years!

Hi Val78,

Yes, we were going to CT and things were going fine but then we had a bad crisis because things in the past came to a head. He was doing well but I needed a change in this particular area and pushed for it. He then stopped going. I am still going so I will ask the T, who has a lot of experience with pwBPDs how to deal with things such as projection and object constancy.

I can accept BPD and that acceptance has helped me see things, a little at least, from his POW but I need progress to want to stay with him. These particular issues and past events that brought on this crisis a couple of months back make it that much harder. I really need a change there and that's where his distorted memory is an obstacle. With his version of events there simply isn't anything to work out and I am just a crazy person with unrealistic demands on him. He may agree with me one day and then the next he does not. When we were in CT the T told me privately she really felt he would come around but it would take time as he first needs to explore why he feels the way he does in order to try and successfully change his attitude and behavior around this situation. So it's not just a question of dealing with BPD behaviors on a day to day basis but in a crisis situation that would destroy any r/s.

He is now in T by himself but I am not sure he is addressing his own issues or whether he is just discussing me when there. He tells me about what his T says about me. I get to hear how she has passed judgement on me and my behavior. It's totally frustrating but it seems he is trying to make me be the one with the serious mental disorder to avoid looking at himself.

I learned to be cautious of inexperienced therapists.  My BPD wife had them fooled quickly.  It was only when she met my psychiatrist (medical counseling for cancer) that she learned that a good therapist doesn't need all the details of her side of every story.  He saw within the first 3 minutes the problems with our interactions - and she hated him for stopping her from rambling.  One lousy, worthless MS degree "counselor" let her ramble on for 2 hours at times without asking me a word! Worthless!

Hi Mitti,

I wouldn't be so quick to judge his therapists.  You are only hearing what he says his therapist says.  He may be less than truthful in what he says to the therapist and he may hear what he wants to hear.

My ex told me her psychiatrist said that I had very poor communication skills and that was the root of our relationship issues.  I said if this is true I would like to work on it, can you arrange a meeting with your psychiatrist so I can better understand what the issue is.

We met with the psychiatrist, she asked me what I thought the problem was, after 2 minutes of me speaking, the psychiatrist said "Time Out, I need to ask a question".  I said "ok, what is it", she asked my ex why she was so angry.  My ex denied being angry, after a 5 minute discussion, the psychiatrist asked me to continue.  The psychiatrist let me speak for another 2 minutes, and stopped me again. This time she wouldn't let my ex off the hook and said, it is clear you are angry what is the problem.  My ex said "he is blaming me".  To which the psychiatrist said, I don't hear that at all.  I see a man sitting in front me of me, who loves his wife and wants to work on the relationship.

Needless to say my ex saw the psychiatrist 1 or 2 more sessions (the psychiatrist wanted to work with her alone) and then said she is useless and quit going.

So don't believe everything you are being told.  Most likely it is not true. I am sure my ex's psychiatrist knew my ex was borderline.  The unfortunate reality is if the pwBPD doesn't want help, treatment is useless.

Hi gottafixit,

I know what you mean. We have been very lucky with our T when in CT, she has a lot of experience from working with BPDs. She has basically told me he most certainly would qualify for a BPD diagnosis although she is reluctant to label anybody. She has been extremely patient and validating and was able to not only gain his trust but also make him see, and me, how ineffective our communication was. That being said, whenever she would challenge him even a little bit, he would feel threatened and get all defensive. It's so unbelievably difficult to cut through those thick walls of defense.

I believe it really takes a skilled T with a lot of experience of BPD or it will almost definitely be counter-productive.

Oneneatguy I had the same experience in joint T with my ex as you did... .  almost word for word... .  

She raged at me and constantly interrupted whilst I was talking... .  then when the T called her out on it she said she wasn't angry... .  she was angry, she was being blamed for everything, it was all my fault... .  she'd storm out... .  come back etc etc... .    It was a totally unproductive environment for her and in fact one day she disclosed... .  "I only agreed to go so I could prove you were to blame for our problems... .  that T just effing loves you so its pointless!"

I continued to see my great T one to one... .  my ex found her own (well she wasn't given much choice as her rages were starting to come out at her workplace too)... .  my ex wasted a year and a lot of money just going to have a pity party with her T and victimizing herself even more.

She would conjure up an "interpretation" of events to fit how she was feeling about a particular person at any given time... .  it certainly didn't match my or many others memories, yet my girlfriend was convinced she was correct... .  it was truly mind bending to be around... .    

Of course you are right to not judge a T too quickly and I have been wondering how much is his own imagination and how much is actually true. Nevertheless, when he has come back from T he has often been antagonistic, argumentative and conflict seeking whereas the T we saw together always had the opposite effect on him. He will often misinterpret the message but our T would pick up on that and steer him in the right direction.

When he first went for the evaluation to get T for himself he met only with a psychiatric nurse. They are usually not equipped well enough to either understand what the fundamental issues are with a pwBPD nor have the skills to offer any helpful advice. That's why I am worried he is not getting adequate and professional T but it rather adding to our problems.

Lately he has been trying very hard to convince me I am the one with the serious disorder. It's utterly frustrating to go from progress to breaking up because of things like this.

Gottafixit

Interesting post, I can relate to what you are saying.  I feel like me you need to definitely look at your own behaviour.  Why do you need to fix things be the rock.  I did the exact same thing and heard similar type responses.  My ex would say things to me like, oh you do those things because you are a nice guy not because you love me so they don't count.  Anything nice I did was dismissed as me being a nice guy, rather than being thanked for making a contribution to the relationship.

Its part of splitting. This is a natural reaction in BPD. As they begin to get close to you... .  their past is recreated and u become the bad person/feelings from the past in their subconcious. All u can do is not take it personal. Dont over react. (easier said than done, i know) he will come in and out of these splitting episodes. If your staying... .  your job is not to lose it and dont threaten abandonment.

Definition:

Splitting - Splitting is a psychological term used to describe the practice of thinking about people and situations in extremes and regarding them as completely "good" or "bad".

Description:

Splitting is described in the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic & Statistical Manual (DSM-IV) as one of the possible criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) as: "A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation."

People who are regarded as being "all good" are sometimes referred to as being "split white" or "painted white". People who are regarded as being "all bad" are sometimes referred to as being "split black" or "painted black".

When a person or a group of people is split white by a person with a personality disorder, they may suddenly be split black (and vice versa). There is often some justification presented by the person with the personality disorder for their sudden change of heart, but their logic is often flawed, contradictory or incomplete.

Examples of Splitting:

•A woman praises her husband as a wonderful husband and father in public but accuses him of abuse later the same day.

•A mother habitually tells her daughter she is "useless" or "worthless" but when she gets a good grade at school gushes: "We are all so proud of you!"

•A friendly co-worker or neighbor suddenly, without warning, begins giving you the cold shoulder.

•A person persistently moves on from one social group to another, praising each group at first before becoming harshly critical.

Splitting is an example of Dissociation, or "Feelings Create Facts" - where for a person with a personality disorder, their feelings take priority over what the facts actually tell them. If they experience a mood swing and suddenly feel good or bad about a particular person or situation, they can modify their opinions, memories or attitudes to be consistent those feelings, regardless of any apparent contradictions.

What it feels like:

When you come into contact with someone who engages in splitting, you may feel threatened by how easily or how quickly they can idealize or demonize you or other people for no apparent reason. Even if you are currently split white yourself, you may still feel insecure because you know that your favored "status" is not based on merit and may change without warning.

If you are close to a person who uses splitting, you may occasionally find yourself being asked to choose between agreeing with them or defending yourself or other people whom they have split black. This can become a real problem if you feel there is a matter of principle which you are not willing to compromise or if a valued relationship with another person or group is suddenly challenged or threatened. You may be very uncomfortable trying to reconcile between your relationship with the person who suffers from the personality disorder and your personal values or your valued relationships with other family members, friends and co-workers.

You may suddenly come under a lot of pressure to cut off contact with these other people and you may find yourself sacrificing friendships and social settings just to "keep the peace". The problem with doing this is that, although this may help avoid conflict in the short term, you may be beginning to hurt yourself and starve yourself of support and social interaction that is good for you and that you need in order to stay emotionally healthy yourself.

You may also come under sudden pressure to neglect or compromise your own values or principles when they come into conflict with the black and white thinking of someone who is splitting. The trouble with giving in to this kind of pressure is that you are likely feel to worse about yourself afterwards.

Coping With Splitting

What NOT to do:

•Don't argue with a person who is splitting or try to talk sense into them. That's a recipe for a Circular Conversation.

•Don't blame yourself. People with personality disorders can easily distort the facts in their mind to fit the way they feel. That's their concern, not yours.

•Don't act like the Thought Police. Don't use any tricks, intimidation or ultimatums to try to get someone to see things differently. Everyone is entitled to think what they want to think and believe what they want to believe.

•Don't become angry with them or try to retaliate.

•Don't yield your own reality about a person or group or isolate yourself from healthy friendships, family, social groups just to "keep the peace". Don't try to hide those relationships. It's OK for you to have differences of opinion.

•Don't automatically assume that everything the other person believes or says is untrue. Don't automatically run for the opposite corner or play "devil's advocate". Try to think objectively. Occasionally, like the boy who cried wolf, they may tell you something important.

What TO do:

•Handle disagreements with a person who is splitting as unemotionally, firmly and briefly as you can.

•Try to "agree to disagree". Acknowledge that you see things differently.

•Respect their right to have their own point of view and assert your own right to have your own point of view.

•Avoid ideological debates. Try to see the gray in each situation and judge on the merits.

•Maintain and nurture your healthy friendships, family relationships and social groups, so long as they form no substantive threat to yourself or to another individual.

•Find a support network, a group of people who understand what you are living with and who you can talk to about the tough situations.

•Find validating environments for yourself away from the influence and control of a dissociative individual.

•If appropriate, talk to people who have been split black or white by your loved one to let them know that you are able to see the "gray".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PartofMe

Where did you get the article on splitting?  It was excellent and explained it very well.



•A woman praises her husband as a wonderful husband and father in public but accuses him of abuse later the same day.

I used to get this one all the time.  My ex would praise me to my friends, they all thought we had a great relationship.  We would be with friends she would be saying what a wonderful husband and father I was.  How I was a great cook etc.  Later that evening, she would be telling me I was a horrible father, didn't do enough to help her around the house, etc.

It was mind blowing.  I saw her do that to family, friends and co workers.

She would kissy kissy with her brother in public, and in private she would go on and on how he was trying to steal her portion of her inheritance.

Whenever her boss left early, she would rage what an ahole he was, and the next day he was a good friend.

This went on and on.  

Thanks again for posting the article it was very insightful.

Hi Mitti

It seems to me what you're asking for is an answer to the question 'Why can't he face his disorder?' And the answer is because he's disordered. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to work out the thinking behind it.

His reasons in sending these texts come from disordered thinking. My ex did similar things and to me the basis was deep shame and hatred of himself. If he could face the shame he wouldn't have BPD. Because BPD is a personality built out of defense mechanisms because of unbearable shame about who they are.

Many psychiatrists refuse to work with borderlines here in the UK. Some health authorities are currently working to ban them from the psych wards as they used to be. Because the perception is people with BPD use up resources and try to use therapists to their own ends. Whenever my BPDex got close to anything in therapy I know he would have pushed it away again and deflected. Because if he had to own the pain he caused to other people he could not cope with it.

For what its worth I'm sure it's not calculated. He wants you close but at the same time knows he can't deal with it- don't forget that part too.

Hi Oneneatguy,

I dont remember exactly. I copied and pasted it to a personal file of mine some time ago. I too thought it was helpful. Like Mitti, I like to know some of the reasoning behind why they split us for no reason. It brings clarity and calmness to me to know. Also, I too like to know some specifics on how to cope and i found i had been doing at least 2 of the what not to do's on this list.   

Your welcome aNd glad i could share... .  

I agree it is one of the most helpful things to try and understand the disorder and how it works.  Understanding what splitting and projection are can only be helpful.

It's just there are points where I have to accept that disordered thinking is almost impossible to rationalise in my own mind. Because it has no rational basis at times. Similarly I can understand the pathology of schizophrenia but I cannot truly understand what it feels like to hear voices.

For me it is easier to accept that I cannot get into a pwBPD's mind, however close we may have got. We shared so much but really so much of his thoughts and the life he lead when apart from me are pretty alien to me really. Accepting that has helped me to get to a point of clarity about what I can and can't have in my life and where my boundaries need to be.

Yes my screen name is indicative of where I have put myself, and how I got there.  I still feel that in some ways but am working out of it.  By the way, when we ended couples therapy, she hated me for the individual counseling I pursued.  Alwasy wanted to know what was said, etc. 

She is alone now having alienated our daughter, myself, most of her family, and many friends, who have become "distant."  I fear what will happen in the near future.  She has an ailing older mother, and we have a 14 1/2 yr old dog.  Neither will be around forever.  I feel the pain she will go through as I have been there myself, but somehow I dread her reactions more than the actions themselves?

Thank you so much PartofMe for the description on splitting. Like everybody else here on these boards I have had to deal with that throughout our r/s and in the beginning I had no clue as to what was going on. And as is described I isolated myself from all my friends because he would split them for no apparent reason except for them being my friends and therefore "demanding" some of my attention. I am with the help of my T trying to change all of that now. On the other I am hardly ever allowed to criticize any of his friends without causing a conflict although a lot of them have treated him and me both really badly. And they still use him but he will not tolerate any criticism of them. This is what has been going on this fall. Now we seem to be in this in between state where I am not completely split black but neither white. I think he is trying hard to keep his emotions anD behavior in check, and I guess that is improvment.

The DOs and DONTs are not that easy to follow. To a great extent I do understand what's going on with him most of the time but it still hurts and often it is not until afterwards that I can see clearly and judge the situation. And sometimes I have just lost it with him, obviously with consequences. And I still wonder, how would a T tackle it? How do they start working on these behaviors if the pwBPDs are never challenged to do so? I am not suggesting that I be function as his T but I am just thinking how would pwBPDs ever start suspecting there's a "flaw" in their reasoning…?

Thanks again PartofMe, I think I am going to print that list of what to do and not to do and keep it with me to remind myself.

mitti ... .  a T is dealing with multiple clients... .  with a myriad of disorders... .  ... .  they should (if they are good at what they do)... .  have their own T to deflect the emotional crap they are dealing with day to day.

I think we have a more challenging role as partners of pwBPD... .  therapists are paid, they have support and are interacting weekly with our SO's.  For an hour at most... .  it's their choice as a commercial enterprise... .  

I'm not attempting to diminish their part in the dynamic... .  it's essential.

Our role is whether we choose/or not to deal with this hour by hour, day by day.  Trying to evaluate what emotional reward we are actually getting from this rs... .  balanced against our partners behaviour... .  and how we feel about that.


In my opinion people with BPD will POSSIBLY seek/accept help when they have little to no alternative left... .  until then the defence mechanisms that have worked before will prevail again, and again... .   

Hi Mitti,

The therapist has the same difficulty we have and has to work very skillfully to not lose it too! It takes someone who is very skilled with BPD. Not just any old therapist will do. They do challenge them, but very gently and slowly and they know more than we do on how to approach. They also dont just jump right to the deep issues right off the bat. They focus on forming a bond with the patient first and if the bond is not formed, if the client doesntntrust or respect the therapist it doesnt work. Remember not to take it personal its not about you even when he makes it about you. When i think of this brain disorder and the way it does people it makes me sad.

Im glad the article shed some light for you. It did for me too.

Hi maria1 and thank you so much for your response,

Yes, I do wonder why he won't face his disorder, not because I cannot accept the reality that there's is a disorder behind a lot of his reasoning and bizarre behavior, but because he is (usually) aware of it. Sometimes he claims all is my fault, but that is not for long periods, other times he wants it to be a question of the two of us not functioning together although he has had the same problems in every single r/s. In a way he may be right it is worse with us, but he has never been with anybody as long as he has with me and he says he has never felt as close to, or as dependent on, anybody else before. And I know that is a huge trigger in itself. Still I believe blaming it on me or our r/s is a kind of denial (not denying I have a part in our problems of course). He knows he has serious issues and has a lot of insight into his own behavioral problems. It just gets too painful for him to deal with these issues. He told me a long time ago, before I had any idea of the extent of his problems, that he believed he had BPD and that some ex told him this a few years back. We have discussed BPD before and at the time he seemed to be relieved there was some explanation for why he felt and reacted the way he does.

Yes, he has a lot of self-loathing. He keeps asking me if there is anything I like about him even though I tell him all the time that he has so may wonderful sides, as if he doesn't hear me, or heard the opposite or doesn't believe me. He wants to be loved just the way he is but he can't see I love him despite what he has put me through. Nothing I say or do seems to convince him.

I believe you are right that probably he meant no harm with his text and has no understanding he had just reduced me to distant acquaintance level, let alone how much it hurt me.

I know exactly what you mean. I understand BPD and how it affects a person in theory but I still can't get my head around what is actually going on in his mind. Lately I had become very aware of how it is almost impossible for me to comprehend what it does to him. I still try to reason with him although I know it won't "work". He and I share so many ideas and values and we usually completely agree on the very same dilemmas we struggle with if it's to do with somebody else. He just can't process it the same way when it's about him. He tells me how he feels, but I have no idea what that must be like. All I can accept is that it must be extremely painful to be where he is.

Hi Newton,

Thanks for your response and your input. I agree with you that we have a more difficult role as partners, having to deal with this on a daily basis. A T also will work with a pwBPD from a position of authority and I am his equal, therefore what I say carries no more weight to him then what he himself says.

This is basically where my ex is, and has been for a while. After a really traumatic breakup two years ago he made up his mind that he wanted to make things work with me and it was his suggestion to go for CT. I knew there'd be setbacks but I just wasn't prepared for how bad that would feel. I now feel that I might be willing to try again if only I have some tools at my disposal, not to just cope with the status quo of the r/s, but to make changes for the both of us. I want to learn not to only accept his projection and splitting but find a way where we can stop that from happening, if that makes sense. Sorry at loss for how to express myself.

You are so right and I have noticed that our T has moved ahead very carefully with him. She has had to maneuver back and forth between his willingness to look at himself, to being triggered by his own admissions when she has repeated them to him. It can't have been easy. But we were making progress. She told me privately that she would probably seem to side a little more with him to make him feel less challenged and I found that hard. But she was doing exactly what you describe, forming a bond with him, before attempting to have him look at some of his issues. She has been amazing though and he did trust her. It was kind of my fault that he stopped going. I demanded a change he wasn't ready to make. The T tried to talk me out of it but at the time I felt I couldn't continue the way things were. It was too painful and humiliating. I needed my self respect back. I am sure that faced with the same situation I would do the same thing again, so I do not regret my decision to push for this change. When he had declared he wouldn't attend the sessions anymore, the T said she felt certain he would want to come back but she also felt it might be good for me that he didn't come for a while as it would allow me to work on myself and be better prepared for when he comes back. Of course, we have since split up and it's all up in the air at the moment.

You have power to accept his splitting and projection... .  (or not)

You have little, to no power to stop that from happening... .  (that's his stuff to deal with)

Are you ok with that sort of relationship dynamic?... .  at least for now?... .  

That's difficult. I do some times but it takes a lot of work to keep my own feelings under control and not take it personally.


I need to understand and find whatever little power I do have, so that he will deal with it because…


… I am not ok with this r/s dynamic longterm. I was ok with it for now for a long time but then felt certain things needed to change for me to still be ok. He kept saying for me give him time. I gave him time but as there was no motivation for him to work on his issues I altered my position and said I needed to do things a little differently to protect myself from being emotionally hurt. That's when we had a crisis.

Since then I have tried to understand whether we had a setback or whether we just couldn't get any further. I still don't know the answer to that, and hence I am on this fence. I just need progress, however slow. I can accept setbacks but I have no idea if that's what it was/is.

So currently I am trying to detach but I am still hoping for a change. I have been away on holidays, planning another trip, reconnecting with old friends. He has rung me a couple of times after Xmas and we have met up, argued and talked some. He asked me the other day if I thought medication might be a good idea for him. He also finally revealed that he wasn't able to get T on his insurance and he cannot afford to pay privately. Idk if he is reaching out. I was the one to break up with him so he isn't going to ask me back. And I need to hear he will commit to getting better, and acceptance that he has serious issues that need dealing with.

Wow Mitti,

You are right in the trenches of this. I totally agree with your stance with him on these issues. I too would not be able to accept the splitting and other things long term, but would accept for a while if there was a willingness to go to therapy, with measurable improvements... .  however slow they may be. Obviously, he knows he has issues and is trying to deal with them and it sounds very much like he doesn't want to lose you. It sure sounds as if he wants you back. But you say he won't ask. They are terrified of rejection, this may play in here. So are you saying "his" insurance won't pay for it, but "yours" will? I feel like I missed something there. Also, do you mind sharing the thing that you say the therapist thought you demanded of him too soon. I'm just curious, no worries if you can't share that. I totally understand your need for privacy too. Some of these things they do are so embarrasing to tell others of.

Perhaps what you want from a relationship... .  and what he can provide at this moment in time are on a very different timescale?... .  

Thanks PartofMe,

I will try to share and have it make sense. :) It's not embarrassing but I feel it is always a little daunting to reveal personal stuff on a public forum. I am worried I'll give out too much info and there's a part of me who also feels it is not totally fair to him.

Yes, he does know he has issues and occasionally also a lot of insight into exactly what is going on. He told me early on in our r/s that he was scared of emotional intimacy. At the time I had no idea what he was talking about, nor was I worried as he was showing me the opposite. Since we got back together about a year ago he has been trying very hard to make changes and to be honest about what he can and cannot do. I have been extremely proud of him because I appreciate this is hard and scary for him.

He is a very proud man and asking me back when I have dumped him is just not something he can bring himself to do, especially since he must feel he has tried very hard to stay in the r/s and not run off as he used to after I told him I would no longer accept that, when we got back together a year ago. He will make himself, sort of, available and then try to make me do the work. It was hard enough for him to come back when he was the one to have broken up. When he is sure he doesn't want to see me he has never had any problems staying NC.

He has serious problems with boundaries, not only violating mine but also enforcing his own. He has extremely low self esteem as pwBPDs usually seem to have and he has few friends. A few years ago this new narcissistic and domineering friend of his was able to gain a lot of control over him. My ex soon idealized this person and triangulated me with him. It's a long story but suffice to say that this friend exercised his control by eating away at my ex's self-esteem by extreme forms of criticism and abuse on the one hand and wanting close and frequent contact on the other. He made it plain obvious he didn't accept me and was the most manipulative whenever my ex was going through a panicky push phase in our r/s. He was definitely instrumental in our breakup almost two years ago. My ex would never side with me, he couldn't see that I was doing my best not only to avoid this man driving a wedge between us but also protect him against his dominance. We were apart for 7 months, the worst time in my life ever. After we got back together my ex still kept this person in his life although he had even found out that he had talked about him in derogatory terms to other people. Sometimes he will agree with me, and admit that he has problems asserting himself. He acknowledges that he has some need of acceptance from controlling people like this friend although they are not good for him. This has been discussed in T at length. But whenever our T would try to challenge him and nudge him towards letting this person go, my ex would get all defensive and sometimes even rage. For me this has all been extremely painful and humiliating. This person who was allowed to do so much harm to us is still in a way in control. My ex is not standing up for himself, nor for me or us. He acknowledges that this person has nothing to offer him, that he has been out of line, that he has been controlling, manipulative, abusive, demeaning and that he hasn't been respectful of either the two of us nor our r/s but not only does he still keep him in his life but he is still subservient to him.

Our T has said that she can understand where I am coming from and that I have every reason to not want this person in my life or want to stay in the r/s if my partner insists he wants this person in his life. I felt more and more humiliated to the point where I felt I was losing all my self respect. I let my then bf know I needed some time out while he decided what he wanted as I could no longer accept status quo. For him it was difficult that I was learning to deal with my codependency and all of a sudden able to voice my needs in a new way. I am sure he felt cornered on all sides. He had been working very hard and his push pull had lessened significantly as had his passive aggressiveness. One thing I understood from our CT was that he felt manipulated despite the fact that he was basically still refusing to make any sacrifices for our r/s and try to make up for some of the damage done by this friendship.

You may be right. I feel I am in a place where I just can't compromise anymore than I already have. I am getting ready to move on but I am still in my heart hoping for reconciliation.

I know where you are coming from... .  I had a real disconnect between setting boundaries which I knew were essential for my sanity and well being.  I was sure that my ex wasn't able to respect those boundaries... .  so I resisted enforcing them through fear of our relationship falling apart... .  (FOG).

It can take time for our feelings to catch up with our thoughts... .  

Well, I understand that. I too had a boundary which my pwBPD could not manage to do. He said he could, said he could do better. But, he apparently just couldn't or got triggered and didn't want to. They tend to get really stubborn later in the relationship don't they? Mine, in the begining, for the first 6 months would have done anything I asked. Later, I think he saw it as controlling and would not accept. Even though my boundary was so completely reasonable. Anyone would expect it from a bf. It seemed like he would intentionally break it to push my buttons.

Hi PartofMe,

Yes, it was the same with us. My partner would have done anything for me in the beginning. He has come back to that in intervals but never lasting and all in all it seems he, like yours, has become more stubborn and more inclined to overstep my boundaries, as you say almost intentionally sometimes, the longer we have been together. I sometimes think it's because we now have so much past trauma to work through. I am really struggling with a lot of things that have happened.

Through our CT we have come to understand that it actually brings on a lot of shame for him to make a sacrifice for me. The oddest thing to most people, especially since he has been adamant all was his fault. He has also said he feels that he did too much for me in the beginning to the point where he felt it wasn't healthy for us. He never did anymore than I did for him, but ok that is how he feels. My T told me that she thought he would eventually let go of this friend and also be able to combat his behavioral problems but before he will be able to do that he needs to know why he feels the way he does. She tried to prepare me for what a lengthy process it would be but for me to be able to cope. She was doing her best to prevent the two of us breaking up. The acute problem I had was the increasing feeling I was losing my self respect if I continued to accept status quo with this friend. All other things I would have put up with, but not that.

How long were the two of you together? And, if it's ok, what was your boundary?

I know exactly where you are coming from Newton. I allowed my ex increasingly more control over me and like you I resisted enforcing my boundaries because I was convinced he would not respect them and I didn't want to lose him. About a year ago I started changing the way I reacted and although scary it made such a huge difference both to how he responded and to how I saw myself. But every time I had to fight myself to do it because I had to get to that point where I was ready to lose him. Who can live like that for any length of time in a r/s and in the end there is a boundary he won't respect and I have to walk away anyway.

Thank you so much for your support 

I had a couple boundries Mitti. No silent treatment was one. That really was the only one i couldnt overlook. If he didnt like something hed just cut off all communication completely for days/weeks. Then come back and never apologise or anything and just expect me to be nice and act like nothing happened. I even could do that if he could have apologized but he never did and i always felt resentful. Its very hurtflul to go through silent treatment i was losing my self respect too. Ive never accepted such treatment before but made concessions for him knowing his problem. We were together for 2 years total. 8mo was good. I broke up with him at around 1 year in and then we did the push pull, silent treatment dance for a year! Far too long. What kind of relationship is that? He did use it as punishment. The first time he did it, I freaked cryied begged him to come back and speak... .  after that he if I would speak out about anything call him on anything hed say... .  you want me to go away, I will, I'll go away... blahh... blahh blahh. I'm not the kind of girl to not speak up.

So sorry to hear you have had to go through that. Silent treatment is just so excruciatingly painful and the worst kind of emotional abuse. It really is damaging, to your very soul. My ex used to give me the silent treatment as well, and use it as a form of punishment just like yours, when he realized it was so efficient. I also used to cry and beg him to come back in the beginning. The longest time lasted 7 months and it was just pure torture. When we got back together I told him I would never accept that again and the next time he pulled that on me I left. I let him know I would move on and when he called me I wasn't even in the country, and definitely not waiting for him. It shocked him I believe, he broke down completely. I can't know that is what it was, or whether it was understanding through our CT just how deeply he had hurt me or whether he will ever do it again. All I know is that I have been able to enforce my boundaries more and more without any silent treatment from him anymore. He has taken time out and we have spent time apart but he has never gone NC again after that.