BPDFamily.com

I am posting this as a Part II  of the above thread.   Yes, I will figure out how to deal with my uBPD wife if she intends to just keep the marriage in limbo with us separated.  She said she wanted a divorce many times in the last two months, so a month ago after she attacked me verbally and physically I left and went to my family home in the woods.  I have not been back since.  When I told her last week that if she didn't have the time, I would file for divorce and even let her review a draft before I filed it.  She had a full meltdown complete with sobbing, saying there is no rush.

Due to this exchange with her, I question whether she will, or even wants to proceed with a divorce.   I need to know.  This cannot continue.

" I question whether she will, or even wants to proceed with a divorce."

The question is Mike,do you? I was standing in your shoes not too long ago. Same EXACT scenario. I worked on me. She didn't work on her.

How long do you want to continue living like this? Rest assured,if you go back,the demands will increase if she doesn't change. And,if you don't meet just one of those demands,you'll be blacker than black.

For me,I filed. I forgot what being me was like. Luckily,your kids are grown if you go that route.

In my previous post I have stated that UNLESS she make a monumental and unprecedented effort to reconcile that includes an admission that much of the difficulties originate from her behavior, AND she seeks meaningful therapy, I will not return to her.  I will end the marriage.

My concern is that I will wait for her to begin a divorce process and she will put it off, effectively leaving me in limbo.   If I sense this happening I will tell her that we are moving forward, whether it is together or apart.

One thing that has made our marriage stormier that many I read about here is that I actually have called her out on her garbage many times, usually followed by me heading for the camp in the woods.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=194493.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=194493.0)

Above is the link to part I of this string if anyone is interested.  I do not type all that fast, so I pass this on to avoid re-typing all the background.

Now my uBPD wife is staying quiet and keeping her distance other than to update me on her pre-op doctors visit for a disk fusion in her low back next week.  Has her aunt coming to take care of her... .  I was going to do it before she had her meltdown and threw me out.  She tells me I stress her out and ruin her health - I read that to be "the person that I am is not easily controlled by the BPD which causes angst in her". 

For the last two months I irritate her just because I have my own personality.  She can have her peace.  My cabin in the woods is very peaceful too. 

well, my uBPD wife is no longer quiet.   We have not talked in nearly 2 weeks.  In this post and my previous one (see link) I mentioned she is having surgery on her back to fuse disks.   Sent her a text yesterday asking if she would be OK with me visiting her in the hospital.  No response until almost midnight last night.  She called my house.  I did not answer.  Then she sent a text saying that I must be asleep.  I did not respond.  Then she sent a text again saying she wanted to talk about be visiting her in the hospital.

We do need to talk about that.  Not at almost midnight - that is on her terms and something she has always done to me: keep me up late when I am up early for work.   She has not gotten up early for work since I have known her and has not worked since a year before we were married.  I was not going to let her hold me hostage on the phone at that time of night.  Not anymore.

She told me a couple weeks ago that I had let her down when she needed me most - during this time before and after surgery.  Perspective is an amazing thing.   She told me she wanted a divorce and that she was not going to have sex with me again and that I should just leave.   She then got violent with me during this conversation and punched me in the head.   I can certainly take a punch.  She can go to hell if she thinks I would or should have stayed past that point.

She let herself down.   My perspective has changed somehow over the 6 weeks of separation.

Another update... .  she text messaged me three times, with phone calls in between saying she wanted to talk to me.  I was on a conference call and she wouldn't stop.  We haven't said three words in a couple weeks... .  she basically shunned me.  OK fine - I accepted that.

Now she needs to talk to me to tell me thank you for everything I have done for her.  I said you are welcome.  I didn't bite.

Sounds like she is chasing me.   I don't think I can go back to her.

I got a series of text messages last night saying she needed (my uBPD wife) to talk to me.  I didn't respond for some time as I was busy.  The messages started out with "I really want to talk to you" and became more desperate sounding "you won't help me just like everyone else".   I finally did call her back.   She kept me on the phone for over an hour.  It was obvious that I am the one that is able to soothe her.   Too bad I am also the object of scorn, ridicule and criticism or I might be able to soothe her more effectively.  The topic was all about her - how she had her monthly falling with her friend (someone I believe to be as disordered as my uBPD wife).  She also told me how no one was supporting her with her upcoming back surgery.   I was going to until she threw me out 6 weeks ago and said she wanted a divorce.

I remained detached throughout the conversation, but kept it positive and supportive.  I assume I am being used a a source of comfort, which is no comfort to me anymore.  I also surmise that she is making a back handed attempt at recycling, with the hope that I will attempt to reconcile.

I will not attempt to reconcile with her.  Any OVERT attempt at reconciliation by her will probably not be satisfactory either unless she admits she personally has a serious problem and that her current therapist is now helping her with that.   I fully understand that it is highly improbable that she will do this.

I could use feedback on my last couple days of posts.     Anyone?

I am in no real position to offer advice here, but I do want to point out one thing after reading through your thread. You have said what it would take for her to get you back, your conditions. You have spoke about how she continues to contact you regarding her upcoming surgery. It seems to me that is all she contacts you about, either she is needing your for something or she is telling you not to go through with the divorce. I don't see anywhere mentioned that she has even thought about the changes she would need to make. Sounds to me like changes aren't even a consideration for her. Just my two cents.

  That keeping you up late when you need to get up early to go to work thing sounded errily familiar.  My husband used to do that, and yes he texts me very late at night, then rages when I don't answer. (This is because I am asleep, getting the rest I need to go to work.)  He didn't work either, but would let me know that he had to sleep in because he was tired in the morning.   

  I'm not telling you what to do, but I have moved forward with a divorce.  This condition can take many years of therapy to function reasonably, and I almost lost myself entirely in all the blame and shame and chaos.  Life is short. :)

My H currently does the keeping me up thing. I try to keep a fairly strict sleep schedule, it helps me not have headaches, and since he stays up all night and sleeps all day, he thinks its fine to keep me up. I usually have to make him mad just to get him to let me go to sleep. He of course does not see the issue because he doesn't have to be at work at 8am. Just one of the many boundaries I have not fully enforced... .  SIGH.

So tired, I'm sorry to hear about it.  If you were a BPD PA person, you would "lose" your job so that you could sleep all day too.  It is hard being the responsible one.  Of course he only needs "one more minute" to finish.  Please stay healthy & take care of yourself.

Sotired... .  

You are correct... .  uBPD wife wants support during and after surgery, sympathy and so on.   I don't think she wants to go forward with a divorce and she has taken NO steps to make believe she accepts any responsibility.

As I have said, I will have nothing to do with her unless she makes a major apology, takes REAL steps to correcting the issues she has instead of demonizing me with her friends, oh yeah and she needs to get a job.

I don't think she has it in her.  It is easier for her to seek sympathy from well-meaning but ignorant people that do not know the real her.

I will not make one move toward reconciliation, in fact, if she continues to leave me hanging in limbo I will have HER served with papers.

Well since she has her family coming to help her with the surgery, what would happen if you just stopped taking her calls? No point in giving her what she wants when she hasn't considered what you want... .     (btw, if you have any suggestions on how to take my own advice, that would be great!  lol)

she knows her family won't take care of here well.  she also knows that I would have.     another case of what I can do for her.    my uBPD wife is a one ways street.

Hi Mike,

Lost track of you for a while.

I have read your posts and this is what your situation looks like to me:

(Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to condense it into a clearer picture)

You have said that you love her and would reconcile, if she did certain things.

If she won't, you want to move forward without her.

Right now, you are waiting to see what's going to happen, but don't want to wait forever.

I can't give advice on what exactly to do or say, and reading some of the books on BPD might help you with the details. But I seem to see one thing in this situation that I wanted to point out:

You have said you don't want to stay in limbo for long.

Is waiting your own active decision, or just a reaction to her inaction?

Waiting for a defined period is my decision.  I will file for divorce if I see no movement on her part.   Pessioptimist, the bottom line is if there is any hope for reconciliation, I will not be the one making concessions. 

I do love her, but will only reconcile if things shift my way somewhat.  Otherwise, to hell with it all, I am done.   I have always made all the effort and sacrifice, regardless of what she believes.

I am not a pushover, and I am beyond my limit as far as what I will tolerate from her.   I haven't seen her in 6 weeks.   She is now attempting to re-engage with me in the hopes that I will ask to come back.  Under no circumstance will I make any overture of any sort regarding reconciliation.   In my mind the burden is on her to acknowledge her needs and wants.

If my attitude inhibits any reconciliation, then so be it.   I am at the point now where I will either have things my way with her or I will have things my way without her.  A contract will only survive when it benefits both parties.

She pushed me too far.

All and anyone... .  

I am more thoroughly confused than ever... .  went to the hospital yesterday.  If you read above, she had lower back surgery.  She was in recovery when I got there - no problems and a complete success.  I am grateful for that.  Her parents were there.  Mind you, at this point I had not seen here in 6 weeks.

Her father and I get along well.  he immediately tells me the room number and telephone and says that he wanted to be sure I had all the information.  Uh huh.  More on him in a minute.    He mother was in the midst of one of her masterful NPD performances titled "Look at What a Wonderful Mother I am".   No surprises.

She is transferred to her room and in we go.   Other family members are there but she tells me thank you so much for all you do for me.  The women start talking ... .  nurses in and out, and so on.  Her father and I go get her bag from the car in the parking garage.  Along the way, he starts talking about something... .  topic doesn't matter.  In the midst of his story he says "and we have do deal with women that think they know it all until they need us".  Very true.  His wife (my mother in law) and my wife are cut from similar cloth.

Back to the room, she is feeling well but groggy from the pain killers.  Her parents leave.  Before her father goes he say "she can't handle stress. Now that the surgery is over she will be a lot better".  

She holds my hand and is half out of it.  After about 5 hours I decide to go.  I tell her to call me if she needs anything.   I go home.  It is about 8 o'clock.   At 10:30 she calls me at home (we are separated).  She talks to me for an hour and a half, telling me how she is grateful that I have continued to support her and keep her on my health insurance .  She thanks me for coming to see her, and asks me to come see her tomorrow (now today).

Today I show up at 12:30 PM with a wrap from a deli and some other lunch items.   I am dressed well and look good in a shirt and tie. We talk, we eat.  She asks me why I am not wearing my wedding ring.   Folks, I need to say this again:  my uBPD wife asks my why I am not wearing my wedding ring.  I reply "because you said you wanted a divorce".  She the says "but we aren't divorced, we are still married - if you don't wear your ring you look single".

My mind is spinning with a verbal counterattack at this point.  I don't attack since she was very pleasant.   She is reading a book that is called "What Women Fear".  From the little i perused it, it described symptoms that sound a lot like BPD with out using the label.

I hang out with her for 5 hours... .  she is very pleasant to me.   I leave at 6 pm.   She hugs me tight and kisses me.  I have done my job, having been respectful and supportive.

To really round out the day, my uBPD wife is on the phone with me now.   She tells me of her good friend and her friend's husband deciding not to divorce, and instead working on their marriage.   Nothing my uBPD wife says is accidental.

I welcome anyone's thoughts.

Hi Mike, read your post,

I would like to understand better: What part of the story seems to be the confusing factor for you in this scenario?

What confuses me is what is her deal?  Is she trying to get me back?   Why is she so concerned about what I am doing?

Yes, I think she does not want to lose you, and feel abandoned.

That would explain why she had a meltdown re. you filing for divorce (even though she asked for it originally)

I think her request for postponement might just be a maneuver to make it all eventually go away.

It would also explain why she asked about why you were not wearing your wedding ring (possibly fears that you might be attracting potential new partners = fear of abandonment)

And also why she talked about that other couple deciding not to divorce (in-between-the-lines signal of what she actually wants.)

I think you are right.

So is this the classic BPD push/pull?   If I were to pursue my uBPD wife I am sure she will pull back.

Yes, it is.

And if you did not know about BPD, the outcome would be VERY predictable:

Either she would be able to pull you back in and the situation would repeat itself, or you would be finally fed-up and leave her, because of all the problematic behaviors.

You now have more options. Since you know about BPD, you can still leave, if you decide to, but you are more informed. And if you decide to stay, you can start behaving differently (in terms of what the books recommend), and even though you cannot change your wife, you can change the dynamics of your interactions, so they are more acceptable to you and so that you can protect yourself.

Mike-confused I just went through the same scenario recently.  I was evil, bad, horrible, wanted him to die, obviously without feeling, etc, etc,  He filed, I responded.  then it's flowers and let's get together you're so great and I'm back into the white.  I won't say it wasn't a relief.  Okay, it wasn't a relief.  By then I knew that it was just a mood.  Besides, life on the outside of our relationship was tougher for him than for me.

  Remember, they split you black, they split you white, but they don't see you.  You are what they say you are and very convenient.  Your choice... .  you can go knowingly into this life and try to help her some more, or you can walk away.  If you stay, it won't be appreciated.  If you go, you are split black forever.

Not of the last two days have swayed my thinking at this point.  I now understand what emotional reasoning is... .  the wedding ring thing described above is classic.  This Board has helped along with along with much reading.  Her shock at me not wearing my ring is absolutely illogical given that she forced me out, painted me black and claimed she wanted a divorce. 

She called me after midnight and did not want to get off the phone.  I am guessing to see if I was at home, now that she is worried about me not wearing my ring.   She told me she is confused.  great.  I said that I am confused as to why she was surprised that I was not wearing my ring after everything she said a month and a half ago. 

As I was saying above, my uBPD wife did not want to let me off the phone last night.  Intellectually I have a handle on BPD symptoms and causes.  Nevertheless, the completely illogical nature of her statements and actions blow my mind.  To tell me for two months that I am not a good Christian, an inconsiderate husband, that I neglect her and don't put her first and that she wants a divorce... .  and then to ask why I don't have my wedding ring on because we are not divorced yet is beyond disbelief for me.

Oh... .  the good Christian friends that she has recently made in her support group did nothing to help her before, during and after her surgery.  No visits.  No calls. No cards.  I never saw THAT coming!

Mike, I recently went through a 14 month separation and an ultimate divorce finalized last April. Reading your posts sent chills down my spine because so much seems like a carbon copy of what I went through. I completely understand your confusion because I found the separation to be the most confusing time of my life. In many ways it was worse than living with her.

Here is the bottom line that you must remember: Everything she is doing, she is doing it for the best benefit of her. Period.

If she thinks she has to admit fault and promise to get help to keep you from divorcing, she will do it. But don't expect her heart be in it or actually follow through with any promises. When she is clingy to you, it's because she needs you (to help keep her from being lonely, at least). When you don't hear from her for a time, she has replaced your companionship.

The challenge you seem to have ahead is that it appears her so-called "friends" are not rallying around her. This happened to my ex. What this may mean is that to keep her from feeling totally abandoned all around, she will keep around who is the easiest to manipulate - YOU!

My friend, I hate to say it, but it appears you will have to be the bad-ass that pulls the trigger on the marriage and rams the divorce through. It was multiple recycles in my divorce and I finally had to do just that. She cried and begged and pleaded for me not to got through with it. She threw as much guilt on me as she could. That night she begged me and cried like a little girl, and I had to muster up the courage to tell her there was no chance of reconciliation anymore... I tell you, it was like I was kicking a puppy out in the rain or clubbing a baby seal... .  so painfully hard. The guilt was mind-numbing but I followed through. But here is the kicker. A few months after the divorce, my son announces to me that he met her new boyfriend, and this was before the divorce. In fact, it was about the time that she begged and cried.  So, it was all about her yet again! A performance certainly deserving of an Emmy!

You have one foot out. It is a whole lot easier to follow through at this point than get recycled in and start the process all over again a year from now.

Walrus... .  

I do have one foot out.  That is why her behavior, even though I know understand it better than before, confuses me so by introducing guilt and my sense of obligation.  Even though I have read all i can about it and have been on this site for a couple months, her behavior in the last couple days absolutely blows my mind.

You certainly do sound confused... .  

I think your expectations might be unrealistic.  Even if she said sorry and started therapy it could be months or even years till things get much better.  In the meantime there would be lots of chaos and requests for divorce, abuse, etc... .  you would have to make many concessions to have a chance at a relationship with her.

When I left my exBPD the first time, I set up boundaries similar to you.  She made the apologies, stopped raging, we started counseling together and on her own, she made promises and admissions.  I moved back in and it all started over again but worse... .  

You sound like you really want her back, maybe talk to her dad about urging her into therapy?  I dunno... .  if she is forced into it the chances of her sticking with it are slim to none.

I may not be explaining my expectations... .  I expect she will continue to think only of herself.  I would like her to get better, but I don't believe she will.

I am confused because her actions defy logic.  I know I know that BPD's use empotional reasoning.  My posts indicate that I am trying to understand what she is up to.  Apparently they came out as sounding desparate, which was not my intent.   I am trying to understand all this, not necessarily get her back.   In previous posts that for my uBPD wife to get me back would take the Hail Marry of all Hail Marys.   I do not see it happening.

Maybe you are looking for some kind of justification for what you are doing? It would be too easy if she confessed she never loved you, or to reveal everything she did behind your back. Instead you are getting more push-pull. You are like the big fish that almost got away. She loosened the drag on the reel to allow you to pull and fight, hoping to wear you out so that she can reel you in easily later.

She will push all your buttons... ALL of them. She knows where you are vulnerable. Obligation. Guilt. She will remind you of everything she did for you and how you are now throwing her out with the trash. She will play the victim role perfectly that will tug on your heart-strings.

In your last post, you said "I would like her to get better". This tells me you are still in a very vulnerable position. You are subconsciously waiting for her to say those magic words to keep you from taking those final steps. "I will go to therapy" "I admit my problems and how much pain I have caused you" "I'm sorry" Etc.

Even now, almost a year since my divorce, I have no answers and nothing still makes sense, and I doubt it ever will. I know deep down I did the right thing, but I never got that moment of closure that relinquishes my brain of that nagging question, "What if... .  ?" I am counting on the passage of time to heal.

Be very alert right now to how she plays you and your reactions.

WG

a lot of great insights on this thread... .  i need to apply this to make sure i stay NC and dont go back if she comes begging.

hard sometimes cause i'm just as confused and sometimes hopeful, but i need to pay attention to reality

Walrus,

I fish salmon too, and that is an accurate description for what she is doing.  I am looking for answers and asking the questions I have to clear something up in my mind:  is everything she has done to me been premeditated or is it that she just can't help herself.   Yes I would love it for her to capitulate and admit her problem.

I also know it isn't likely.   Nevertheless what you see in my posts is me second guessing myself.   She has been successful with her tactics in the past.

The advantage I have now, and the disadvantage my BPD wife is at is that I am educated regard BPD now.  During past push/pull and recycling attempts I was not informed.

Okay, the salmon fishing reference pulled me back in - my biggest is a 36 lb Chinook.  

Yes, this is really a "drag" Mike, but you need to land the BPD and move on. I'm not talking about staying or leaving - I'm talking about you getting to a point where you logically accept her "illogical" behavior. I've been absent from your thread for quite some time but see you as perplexed as ever about her yo-yoing emotions and actions.  

I went through this "stage" as well - really struggling with my W's bizarre behavior. I finally realized it was all up to me - hence my name. I stopped thinking about her feelings and actions and paid more attention to mine. What she felt, said, or did was something to validate, but not something to internalize and/or act on. It was something for her to own and me to stop managing. I see you still "internalizing" her feelings through analysis Mike. You need to keep working on NOT doing that, my friend. She survived getting to her surgery without any help from you or her "Christian" friends - did she not?   She's "surviving" your lack of a wedding ring too (as did mine - story for another time)

Keep looking after yourself, treating her as if she can do the same, and you will be amazed of the change that occurs - in you and your outlook on BPD.

Tuum,

salmon fishing is a good reference... .  as far as her surgery... .  I did visit her twice during the two days she was in the hospital.   I was one of the few that did.  I brought her lunch and talked with her.  Nothing in depth.  I did it because I am the bigger person.  I don't talk as much as I do.  Not as much can be said for her new Church friends that talk a fantastic game.

She obviously, as part of her BPD probably, believes that a friendly or romantic relationship is more serious than it actually early on.  It has taken me a lifetime to get as close as I am to my few best friends.  She proclaims the same closeness withing a week or two.  It is just not possible.

I am getting to the point where I see her actions and emotions as something separate and distinct from me.  Time away has done that for me.  I am also thinking more about what I feel and want.  I DO still struggle with a sense of obligation.  My parents were and still are that way with me.   Of course, in a healthier relationship things are stable and consistent and there is give and take.  I have come to realize that my sense of obligation toward my uBPD wife is like the feeling I would have toward a child of mine in elementary school. 

Not good and I can't continue.  I am staying away.  I need to clear my head - it is working.

The separation appears to at least be allowing you to see the difference between obligatory codependency and doing something for her because you choose to do so.  |iiii

If you (and me) are lucky, so will our wives - but we will have to continue to do all the work in creating our own luck.

I have to be honest... .  I don't think I will go back to her.  I do believe she is working her therapist to believe that I am the problem.  With that approach I am going nowhere.

I understand where you are at about your future with your W.

To achieve healing and peace from the trauma of a BPD relationship - regardless of whether you stay or leave - you need to come to terms with what you brought to the table. Codependency was one of mine; it seems to be one of yours.

So prove to her and her therapist that they are wrong and keep working on positive change in you.

I am working.   Never thought I'd be codependent... .  never was before.  My uBPD wife saw the weakness or smelled blood and took advantage of it.  What actually brought this to a head between us is that I never fully tolerated her BPD abuse crap.  I would for a period of time and then she would switch tracks and I would call her on it.  never productive but it did keep her somewhat in check.  What it did not do was make the situation any better.

At this point I have nothing to prove to her or her therapist.  My attitude is that if she truly believes I am her entire problem and am all bad then she should leave me alone.  I am leaving her alone.  I can then continue to to be bad and evil and a poor excuse for a human being without impacting her further.

By the way, I do not at all believe the above things about myself.  I like myself the way I am and I really always have.  I feel much better without her - that is the sad part.  Her loss and she is ware of that I think, and she knows its coming.

I have said it before, but she pushed me too far - every man has his limit.

We all have personality traits, that's what makes us all different, even interesting.  We're not robots off an assembly line.  Thank God for that.  However, if those traits become seriously unbalanced for whatever reason, it can put the person into PD territory.

A personality disorder is to some extent - I'll let the professionals decide how much - mental illness.  It's not that the pwPD drools, talks jibberish, can't think, or has to be institutionalized, it's that the thinking is dysfunctional to a greater or lesser extent.  It just doesn't make common sense.  With BPD the dysfunction is more evident the closer the relationship and typically the more private as well.  Yes, it can be described, categorized, even certain aspects, reactions and overreactions predicted, textbooks have been written about PDs, but it still doesn't make common sense.

"Understand what she is up to"?  Yes, you can do that to a certain extent.  To a certain extent there is "method to the madness".  But as soon as you think you have her figured out, she'll change the rules, the patterns, yet again and keep you off balance yet again.  Consistently inconsistent.  Predictably unpredictable.

So if you're trying to make her thinking, actions, reactions or overreactions make sense, they won't, not in that respect.  Well, not unless you want to join the club.

So relax, accept what IS, be open to gaining only a general framework of insight at best and then determine what you need to do to deal with that reality.

Consistently inconsistent is true.  I am trying to understand as best I can so I am able to resist being sucked back in by my uBPD wife.  I have asked the questions in this post so that I can get assistance from others in seeing patterns of behavior that I have been too close to see.  Thanks to everyone that have given their input.

I am trying to prepare myself - I know, with sadness, that I need to divorce her for my own well being.

My uBPD wife, from whom I am still separated, called me today to discuss routine business.  She then launches into me about me not wearing my wedding ring.  I told that why should I when she told me very clearly on many occassions that she wanted a divorce.  I also told her that why also would I wear a ring when she threw me out, again telling me she wanted a divorce.  She responded saying she didn't throw me out.  She also told me I should be wearing my ring until we are divorced.  I was told by her that I must never have been committed if I took my ring off.

OK, she forced me to leave although I now believe she never expected me to stay away for 2 months. She is trying to control me from afar it seems.   I do have to say that she is out of her ever loving mind if she believes I am continuing to abide by her rules... .  her rules... .  even though we are separated.

I admit I am angry.

There is a Scripture, "Be angry yet do not sin."

So it's okay to be angry, anger has its place.  Anger is even one of the stages of Grieving a Loss.  Yet still be very careful that you do or say nothing that she could use against you.  Once she realizes she can't control you or influence you as she did in the past, she may decide to go on the offense and retaliate somehow, perhaps even looking for ways to trick you into sabotaging yourself.  Be aware.  Beware.

Why would she try to control me if she wants a divorce, even with her BPD emotional reasoning. 

I have such a hard time with the emotional reasoning of a BPD.  To tell me that I should wear my ring until we are divorced is illogical.  Completely.  I do know these folks afflicted with BPD are not at all logical, but still - she must know that.

I am not sure how she could attack me actually.

For a person with BPD, it's Control or else feel controlled.  Hers is largely an all-or-nothing world of extremely unbalanced emotions, perspectives and perceptions.  Sadly, she sees it as all for her or nothing for you.  Neither is in your favor.

ForeverDad,

That sums it up.  For her to tell me I treated our marriage as a joke when she drove me out... .  literally telling me multiple times she wanted a divorce and then to go... .  it was a joke to her.

She is now attempting to change history by making me the one that left her.  She can convince her friends of that but I know the truth.  She will need to find another man to control her.  As much as I love her I will not be treated like this.

You are answering your own question.  She has an illness.  It doesn't always follow logic. 

If you still aren't 100 percent sure you want the divorce, you have to give her a clear ultimatim.  Put it in an email so she can't distort it later.  Tell her she needs to do the following things in order for you to even consider getting back together.

Are you able to see and talk to her therapist, so that he/she knows to treat her BPD?

It's good that you love her and supported her thru the surgery.  You also need to be able to breathe and feel sane.

I filed for divorce a month ago and it was only when I actually filed that my husband FINALLY went to a therapist and started to get the right treatment - this after five years of his lying in therapy, and so many other things.  Now I am kind of beaten down and don't know if I can become part of a team with him again.  I spent so much time tiptoeing around him and silently trying to stay sane.  He wants me back now because he's in therapy, but I'm confused like you.  Hang in there.

Thank you... .  you said the most important word to me and something I have been lacking with her... .  TEAM... .  wow... .  that is what I want most.   and What I cannot have

well... .  she... .  my uBPD wife ... .  called me again last night at nearly midnight.  She always calls me then because it is convenient to her non-working schedule.  I ended the call quickly.

She did manage to berate me yet again for not wearing my wedding ring.  I re-emphasized that I saw no need to do that since she was the one pressing for divorce.

The strange thing is that she repeated everything she said to me earlier in the day at least 3 times during the short conversation last night.  Maybe that is typical.

Repeating the same thing over and over is certainly the MO for my uBPDw. If I participate in her dysregulation, I will get the full "list" - ranging from my family hating her to me cheating on her.

Not buying her a good enough engagement ring and me losing my wedding ring early last year are also on the list.

The ring is clearly a big thing for her, Mike. It generally is for all women - BPD or not - is it not?  :). Rather than attempt to justify or defend your choice to not wear it - perfectly "logical" in these circumstances, have you tried validating her concern with a bit of empathy and truth?  "I can see how not wearing my ring would bother you." "This is a very difficult time." "I'm not sure when it might feel right to wear it again."

And when she brings it up again, continue to show that you understand that it bothers her, but stop trying to attribute it to her "decision" to "force" you out. You made the decision to leave, just as you made the decision to stop wearing the ring. I understand your reasons Mike - they are valid and logical, but make sure you truly own these decisions - they are yours.  It's a critical part of your personal growth and will help you get through the process here - wherever it goes.

Oh I can assure everyone that I have no problem "owning" my decisions to leave and not wear my ring. I have told her as much.   I also did validate the ring concern to her, saying that I can understand why she would be upset.

Funny you mention not buying the right engagement ring... .  I had the same thing in that I bought the ring she showed me she liked.  She then didn't like it and subsequently convinced me to trade it for one that cost 3 times as much.  Never again.

She will repeat and repeat and repeat things, talking over me while she does, not even hearing me actually.  Its is psychotic.

Yes, it is typical to repeat things.  Very frustrating.  I don't know if they even realize they're doing it. 

I've concluded - as a non-professional - at some level they do know since it doesn't come out as gibberish.  Surely that isn't an accident or incidental.  Method to the madness, so to speak.  Face the fact that you may never know for sure to what extent she realizes what she says and does.  With skewed perceptions and values, extreme entitlemant and a deep neediness to be in control, almost anything goes.

I noticed with my ex that she had an excellent memory for those who crossed her path yet was either in Denial or totally silent when I tried to make corrections or state my case, ignoring my efforts to use logic and facts.  Ex's emotional and entitlement facts carried the day as far as ex was concerned.  It was like beating my head against a closed door that never opened.

In the final analysis, what's important is not her perceptions and behaviors, that's generally out of your control or influence.  What's important is how you set firm boundaries for yourself.  They'll have to be firm boundaries and periodically reviewed and adjusted, the pressure is like the ocean beating against the rocks on the shoreline, the loose rocks get swallowed up, the ones firmly anchored survive.

The sense of entitlement and the complete disregard for my needs/wants/wishes shown by my uBPD wife toward me is astounding.   It is why I have separated myself from her for 2 months... .  and counting.  She is trying to get me back.

The other day she called me to ask why I haven't come to her house to see her.  I replied that she hasn't come to my camp to see me.  I feel no obligation to go to Rome so that I may kiss her ring. 

If her attitude and actions persist, and they will, I will file for divorce.  I have a draft ready to go... .  my attorney has prepared one.  I will no longer tolerate he complete lack of consideration and i have expressed this in plain language to her.  Funny how the switch flipped once we were married.  She has a childish view of what a husband should be and do - I said childish - and she will not deviate from that vision.   I also told her this and continued by saying that she will have to seek those qualities in another man.  She knew exactly who I was when we married, and yet she expected me to change.  No way.

It is a shame.

And what if she does come to see you?  Then what would you do, what would be different about the relationship's future?  See what could happen?  Would that be basis to return to her?  Odds are, if she's not in intensive therapy for a long time, generally years, and diligently applying it in her life, perceptions and behaviors, you can't trust any claims "it will be better next time".

Is there a reason you're delaying filing?  What are the risks versus benefits to delay - or leave it to her to file seeking who knows what?  Financially speaking, the sooner you do it, the less the financial risk.  Since there are no children from the marriage (but she does have children from prior relationships) then proceeding with a divorce would reduce the risk of her getting you to come over, seek intimacy and get leverage over you with a pregnancy, leverage she doesn't have now.  Not saying it would happen, but it could, it's happened to others.  With a separation and a looming divorce, you can't trust her to practice reliable birth control.

Pregnancy is not an issue.   She has teenagers from her first marriage.  I have said multiple times before that I would not even consider a reconciliation without a major major Come to Jesus on her part.   I mention the fact that she wouldn't come to see me to emphasize to myself the fact that everything with her is self-serving and one way.

Sorry Mike but the adage "The beatings will continue until the morale improves" - comes to mind.

Her "attitude" is driven by her BPD - yours is driven by your anger and resentment about how poorly she treats you.

Her capacity to change before or after you file is extremely limited.  What about yours? 

I am angry.  She knows I am going to file and she is very upset.  No matter what I will not live like I was.   For the two months... .  so far... .  that I have been separated from her I am so much more relaxed.   No one's core changes truly - I believe you/they become more aware of behaviors and adjust them.

I generally like who I am, with the exception of having allowed myself to be used.  I am done with that and she really knows that now.   I feel better.  I am worried for her but I will not try to save her - she earned this.

You've made progress on your situation that you should not sacrifice Mike - the main one being that you "feel better."

I think, however, that she knows/has learned very little about the changes you've made.  I still see in your words that you are holding on to the need for this recognition. Most telling was the end your last line


What will it take for you to stop needing this to be something she needs to pay for?

Actually, I don't want her to pay for her actions and treatment of me; nevertheless it is unavoidable.   I do not want that for her.  I am not seeking retribution.  I speak very directly and do not mince words.   

I want an adult relationship with her and I will never have it.   I too need the compassion, consideration and caring that she gets from me.  I will never get it from her.

My posts reflect a stream of consciousness and it does show a progression.  There is no way to get away from her with out battle scars of some form.  I just don't want any more.

WOW... .  

Mike, as I read your posts, I feel like it is me talking... .  

I am in the same stage as you...   except that My wife moved out on the kids and I almost a year ago.

There have been no outside romances on either part as far as I can tell, but Now after all this time it looks like she wants back in...

She is waiting for me to ask and forgive, but I just cant bring myself to do it.

I feel sorry for her, but I like this feeling of not "walking on eggshells" too much.

After about the first 2 months of her being gone, I felt 150 LBS lift off my chest and I like the feeling.

I am trying hard to finalize this separation without too many battle scars as well...

I want to add that for the 25 years we were together she always made me feel responsible for causing her to have these meltdowns, then we had kids so I always backed down and accepted blame so she would be able to be "happy", but this time she left me with the kids.

She is very confused that I have not accepted blame to help her get over herself this time.

When she threatened to move out I actually loaded the car for her. I think it really confused her...

My wife has NEVER actually apologized. Not once in 25 years.  She would usually try do do something nice after a meltdown, but she would always let me know that her meltdown was my fault and her being nice was in no way to be mistaken for an apology...

Wow NonBPDSpouse!  That sounds like my story in so many ways.  No, I don't want to go back, ever.  "We are never, ever, ever getting back together... .  "  If life isn't quite good yet, at least it isn't living hell either.  If my ex loved me at all, he would never want that type of life for me, much less be the one creating it. :)

The reason I didn't like separation was that it made me more vulnerable. Even though I liked not having the burden of everyday life with her, which made me feel stronger, I was actually becoming weaker. I couldn't move on because of the marriage bond, and I was getting lonely.

My mind started working against me, deceiving me into thinking I was becoming strong enough to try to salvage the marriage, even though she didn't plan on doing anything different, but her mouth said different. I fell victim to two recycle attempts. After a very brief "honeymoon" period on both accounts, same old story, but worse. It was worse because I felt suckered. I had started feeling some peace and I walked right back into the fire. Willingly.

My T, who successfully treated a number of borderlines, had told me that they must hit rock bottom before they get serious about seeking treatment. Reconciliation, even at the edge of losing they person they "love", is not hitting bottom. It merely affirms to them that you can still be manipulated. So don't think you can negotiate for a better marriage, because YOU and your feelings don't come into their mind.

WG

All:

I am separated 2 months today.  I don't regret a minute of it.  I cannot allow myself to go back;  I do believe she is waiting for me to make an attempt to reconcile.  That attempt is not forthcoming.  We have had limited contact.

She told me for months how I had ruined her life and how she needed to divorce me, so I complied.  Of course she spun that into me abandoning her.  I told her she can say what she wants to whom she wants but it would not change the facts as I know them.  I admit I am self-assured - it is a point of contention for us.   She then found out I was not wearing my wedding ring, and flipped out.  She said I should be wearing it as long as we were legally married, as if it were written in the U.S. Constitution.  I am amazed by this - she forced me out, even though it is obvious to me that she never expected me to leave, just to continue to be her punching bag.

Screw it.  She went too far, and she misread me.  I am not going back. 

Hi WG,

Thanks for weighing in on this topic.   

Mike is 2 months in-country today.  How long were you there before you felt you'd escaped?

Wow... .  Hi Mike... .  I started to read your thread because my brother in law is dealing with much similiar but may not be BPD from my own sister and Mike is his name. I AM SO SORRY that you are going through this but as you can see, you are NOT alone.I have read your entire thread and sorry that I did not see and respond sooner. I REALLY UNDERSTAND "where you are at". You have "done all" that you could have done to "help her" and of course, being BPD and having painted YOU "black", she is not admitting responsibility for her behavior and thus has to create the "victim mentality" by focusing on your wedding ring being off your finger.

The method of Validation would dictate that you might want to try REPEATING BACK TO HER WHAT SHE SAID... .  ad nauseum (all the while YOU fill in the blanks in YOUR HEAD) and let her go around in her "circular reasoning" until she sees that she is "doing all the communicating" and STOPS for having GOTTEN NOTHING OUT OF IT. She has NOT upset you, caused you to feel guilty or defensive and she STOPS out of the futility that she is NOT CONTROLLING you and you are NOT engaging in her "drama".

It is HEALTHY to be angry about this... .  we are "losing" what we THOUGHT we had with this person. We feel betrayed, lied to and demonized. We realize that they are "mentally ILL" and we have hurt for them but realize that allowing them to continue to HURT US will not make anything better... .  only worse.

Again, So sorry for JUST NOW jumping into your conversation. Just sending HOPE and encouragement your way. You sound VERY mentally and emotionally healthy and grieving the loss of the "person she used to be"... .  I am doing the same with my uBPDso. He is very intelligent and I LOVE him but I do NOT like him or his behavior toward me because of the BPD. I have detached and not "letting him get to me" anymore. Hope you can do the same.  

Real Lady,

thanks.  It certainly helps me to have validation from everyone.  For the longest time she had me question my view of reality.  I have grieved for the loss of the person I thought she was, and I certainly do feel betrayed and used.  She used me as her sole means of financial support for her and her kids (not my children) - the same kids she taught to be disrespectful to me.   I am weaning her off.  I informed her that if we do not mediate a settlement ASAP then I will file myself.

It saddened me when I realized today that I think of her less and less.   It has to be that way.

Mike

*mod*

This has been a worthwhile topic, but we have reached our four page limit so I am locking this thread.  Feel free to start a new thread to continue the discussion.