BPDFamily.com

Hi all

I've been feeling quite 'up' this week and last. I seem to have chronic fatigue syndrome which was diagnosed a couple of months ago. I have been coming to terms with an acceptance of having the illness but this week actually felt physically OK and had some energy for 3 days in a row. I felt like I had my mojo back.

I also felt like I was on the verge of liking myself. Really enjoying my own company, having a great time with my kids, the few friends I have (well, differently defined friendships and less friends than I had). I started to think about returning to work and looking forward to the future me. I start a  therapy group next week which is a little nerve wracking but I'm looking forward to it.

I've been out and about with my head held high and have met a few attractive men's eyes and not shied away. Heck I've even smiled at them!

But today the crash has come. I feel ashamed of myself for even thinking I could be OK. I know deep down that I am and that I will keep on going and that this will pass. I find myself pining a little for BPDex and I unblocked him on the dating site I'm on. Message is there from a week ago 'You been checking me out '... .   '? (petname) Hope you're doing OK?'. (He must have seen that I viewed his profile to block him, doesn't matter really but I could do without the contact right now)

I can't help wondering if this is toxic shame. The thing is I really do like myself but I'm so easily knocked. It's almost like my natural stance is to like myself but my FOO might not have let me do that somehow although I don't remember much apart from being told my knees weren't good (!) and that I didn't know what I was talking about.

My BPDex really helped me like myself. He really valued the stuff in me that I valued about me, properly. I do think that's what love is. I don't want him back I just wish I could feel firm in my belief in myself without this self doubt.

Hey Maria,  I dont think anything is wrong with having good days and bad days.  I'm sorry your having one today.  :'(  We all have them.  Yesterday i was all happy and cheery, and this morning I woke up in a cleaning rampage angry.  I dont know what about, its just a feeling.  Feelings are like waves, they ebb and flow.  What is important one minute, will be unimportant the next.  

So you felt low and checked out his profile.  I check up on mine sometime on twitter to see if he is ok.  Just because we arent together doesnt mean we stop caring.

I do understand that it sets you back a few steps as I am sure you miss him.  You know as well as me that you were attached to yours for a certain reason.  You also know you got out of the relationship with him for a certain reason.   You needed Maria back.  The beginning parts of your post start with talking about all the things you have going on and changing and you felt like you had Maria back.  

Do you think there is a connection?   That the doubt you have in Maria's self triggers your "need" for your ex?  I do understand the depth of the need when it comes to being insecure in our own ability to deal with who we are.   Who are you Maria?

I see a kind, loving, supportive, funny, empathetic, intelligent woman.  You say he made you feel good about yourself?  With my experience, you are built up and then knocked back down.  Each time losing a part of yourself.  Maybe your experience was different?

I am easily knocked too.  The neighbors complained that my dog woke up her baby, and she was miserably rude and threatening. For a little while it shook me.  I saw her this morning and I sized her up to kick her ass.    Later on I realized that I could get revenge so much sweeter from a well timed gate slam.  

Anyway Maria, I think its just a bad moment.  Sometimes our feelings overwhelm us and we wonder if we will ever be ok again.  :)ont worry, you will.

100000 x  

Hi Maria,

  Most of us in relationships with BPD partners have troubles re-establishing our sense of self and self-worth.  We have become emeshed in a terribly sick relationship and it isn't easy locating yourself again.  Give yourself time and don't worry.  Keep posting and reading and learning.  You are absolutely not alone!   :)

Practice. Practice. Practice. There's the antidote.

Thanks Laelle

Yeah I think it's the easily knocked bit that's uppermost. I've posted in staying because I've actually been feeling for a little while that I may not have been fair to him in our last interaction. I can do NC whilst I think he doesn't want anything from me but sometimes I see that our relationship was actually two way and he did give me stuff that I can deny sometimes.

That doesn't mean I need him to feel good about myself but there is definitely a connection. I've been checking up on him less. Today I unblocked him because I thought I'd been mean to him. I can be pretty harsh with people, not that he hasn't been horrible in his actions but he is pretty messed up. I'm on here posting to others about what a serious illness this is and my ex is actually trying really hard and I just dismiss him.

Oh well, you're right it is just a bad day. Not helped by drinking some wine last night. Alcohol is definitely a depressant. Thank you Laelle- you are a star  

Thank you Sad but wiser. I think my whole thing is about locating myself for the first time in my life and BPD relationship was actually the start of that journey. Thank you for your kind words  

Mary- practice feeling good about myself? Does it get easier? I feel like a wicked witch is going to turn me into a frog if I get carried away with all this feeling good malarkey!

You deserve a happy and healthy relationship, but only you can gauge what that is.  I dont block for just the reason you said.  I dont want to stumble across an email months later.  It would devastate me.  I would rather leave all lines open and let him decide if he cares to connect.  Eventually I will move on and his connection will no longer matter, but for now it saves me the "not knowing"  It reaffirms closure every day he doesnt contact me.

But then the contact might just come at a time when you can't handle it?

I think I know what it is that the connection is. The little voice that says I'm crap when I'm feeling good. My ex would always tell me nice stuff. I never got any crap stuff from him. If he devalued me he didn't tell me about it. He just told me nice things, even when he was annoyed with me it was real stuff, so I'd still feel good about myself overall. So the little voice that tells me I'm rubbish inside my head always had somebody else fighting it when I was with him. He was always on my side to fight my demons and I fought his. Now I really am missing him.

Still don't want him back. Need to blow my own demons away. God I hate this.

Going to get my arse into gaer and read a bit more of my inner child book. That's the one who's listening to the negative stuff. Got a book about the negative voices too.

If I can change my inner dialogue and not feel like I need him maybe I can maintain contact without worrying I'm using him to meet any of my needs. But then isn't all interaction about meeting needs, unless we are in a therapeutic relationship, ie. T or DR/ Nurse?

Why is it that you felt you needed to leave the relationship?  You had to have had a reason that was serious enough to come to this website, seek guidance, and decide the relationship was something you couldnt handle.  

Its normal to miss people we love you know?  Its not some sign from heaven saying you should be together.  Its just part of grieving.  Tell yourself that you will give yourself some time.  And as that time passes, if you still think the relationship is something you think you might have been hasty with, post here and I will set you straight.    I'm only joking.  If you think that you deserve this man in your life (all the good and bad) then think about making contact.

If he is BPD then you know the hard road ahead.  Its really hard to have an intimate relationship with someone who struggles to understand what it is even.

I miss my ex to my core.  I cry every nite because of it, but I know in 3 months, 6 months... .   It will all end at nothing again.

As much as I love him, I am not strong enough to lose him and his love over and over.  I will live without and hopefully maybe one day I will find a man who wont ever take it away.  

Try doing what I do based on those self help videos posted recently.

Pat your heart, tell yourself you understand your suffering and its ok.  Tell your critical self that you understand it is only trying to protect you, but that you are hurting right now and that you need love and care to heal.  Imagine your critical self saying... .   ok, but im here if you need a good ass kicking  

Love yourself.  Rub your shoulders and comfort yourself.  Allow all those feelings to come through you, and tell yourself you understand (like a mother would her children)

Everything will be ok.  Nothing has to move.  It can all stand still at this moment.  If you need your loving self, its there for you always and wont let anything happen to you.  It has faith in you, It loves you.  The adult Maria will protect the child Maria always.

We love you and want the best for you too.

I don't want a relationship with him. A relationship with him is no relationship because as soon as it is it's gone. I miss him propping me up and I miss having fun with him. I miss his company but that's not the same as wanting the relationship back I think. He can be a good friend at times. He knows me. I miss that.

He isn't going to stop lying and I don't want the lack of trust. I do wonder still if I can maintain some sort of contact with him because he isn't all bad. He tries hard not to hurt people because he knows that he does.

Compared with many of the people in my life he is actually one of the good guys. I know that may sound hard to believe but if I ever really needed anything he would be there.

But I don't crave the romantic relationship back. It was crazy and most of the time it was in my head while he was off playing with his girl friends. He'd say I'm exaggerating the extent of his girlfriends and that they were only ever friends and he may e right but it doesn't matter really.

No I'm not craving the romantic relationship, just wondering how he is and would like to be able to check in with him. Would like to be able to have him say 'Hey Maria I know how you get and I know you'll be OK, let's go out and do something nice and you'll be fine tomorrow.'

Thanks Laelle

Just having a cry. It's OK to miss him. He really wants to be a good friend. I really wish we could just do that with all the s**t!

Thank you x

Yep, it is good to cry.  

I remember you when I first came to this website.  You were scared, nervous, freaked out, confused and consumed by whether you wanted a friendship with your ex.

You had the same shell shock that we all have when coming off the chopping block.  Fast forward to today.  I see a woman who is constantly challenging herself and her old ways of seeing things.  You have flourished. You are working on becoming a whole person secure in who she is.

You dont need the company, you need a partner when the time is right.  I know this need VERY VERY well.

Cry your heart out.  You've come a long way.  

Thank you. Those are good words to hear.

Yes I don't think I need his company. I still have thoughts that I've let him down a little. I have been a little unfair on him and a little selfish and I'd like to see him every now and again.

That's all OK in the real world but we all know that's less than straight forward in BPD world. I can usually manage to see him without falling off the rails of my journey into Maria1 land.

But there isn't any need really. He is doing OK without me. And I'm doing OK without him.

Its not selfishness Maria, its protecting yourself and your values.  Thats a good thing.

I would love to be friends with my ex too.  I know within a short period of time  I would be sucked into the drama again only to have it all turned around on me

calling me selfish, abusive, a loser and a child.  That's my reward for my good efforts.  000000000

I haven't got time for the pain.

Just thinking of Phoenix and his little bird that couldnt fly, having to let go and trusting nature will take care of it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBR2G-iI3-I

Laelle ... .   just wanted to thank you for this.  This is the best statement of the problem we all face I've seen.

Maria -- mulling over your post here & the one in Staying.  I'll post on one of them about the question you are asking about what to do with BPDex.  Lots of thoughts as you might imagine.   

Patient   

Its so good to see you.  Its been a while.  How are you?

Hi P&C

Been thinking of you today. Thanks for your thought on this. I don't want him too close but I don't think I've been fair to cut him off the way I did. I just posted again on staying.

Maria  - you must - of course - do exactly what you want to do.

But I would just suggest that it's very natural to feel particularly vulnerable right now.





In my experience long(ish) term chronic illness improves gradually and subtly over time as you do all the things that can help you. But it's not a smooth upwards curve so it's natural to feel good for a while - and then feel down again. It doesn't mean you're not heading in a good direction - it might mean you need to go easy on yourself and be even more alert to your emotional and physical needs. But I do think there's something particularly debilitating about feeling that you might be going backwards after a period of progress. So I would just be slightly wary of any strong emotions and urges that come up at such times.

But my goodness it is hard isn't it? Because clearly getting in touch with ones needs is key to every kind of health - emotional and physical - and yet sometimes I personally find it hard to know what my 'true' needs are. It doesn't always work - but if in doubt I try and do some simple meditation and then see how I feel about actions I'm considersing while meditating. On occasion it can give me a good sense about what's a good idea and what isn't. It's worth giving it a try.

Wishing you well. WWT.

Whatwasthat

Thank you so very much 

You are very wise. I really should get on a meditation class. I am not very good at seeing things through but you have just inspired me. Everything you say is just how it is. I am feeling better today. I did contact my BPDex and that has brought up some emotions but I'm trying to stand back from them.

laelle - I too found this quote really helpful.  I thought I was strong enough and recycled many times.  All that happened was that I ended up even more drained (emotionally, physically, financially) whilst he moved on with rapid speed and appeared well and happy (until the inevitable occured).

maria - I suffered from a CFS-type illness for many years and still do not have the stamina I used to.  I am fortunate to be well enough to work but it means that when I am at home in evenings or weekends, I don't have much energy to exercise, socialise etc and so start thinking about ex or over-analysing my own behaviour.  Just exhausts me more and that makes me more vulnerable - a vicious circle.  That makes it difficult to 'see things through' as you put it.  What I'm trying to do now is make sure I do one healthy thing for me each day - can be as simple as choosing an apple over chocolate or going for a short walk instead of taking car. 

The ups and downs are difficult - I'm at the stage that when I'm feeling good (the signs are singing along to radio at top of my voice in the car; feeling really 'free' and looking forward to things I can do without restriction), I know that I will 'crash'.  However, knowing that this is what happens means that I am a little more forgiving of myself when I can't sustain the good, strong feelings.  I believe that, over time, the good feelings will last longer and the dips start to disappear.  I also believe that's only likely to happen if I detach from ex more and more. 

 Hello, I know this post is old, but I ran across this method for self-soothing and giving yourself self-compassion about 1 year ago. This method is very powerful for me. The words that I use are similar. The rubbing yourself part is a very important part of it for me.

AnotherPheonix    |iiii

Hey Claire,  With my ex the relationship was to be defined by him and if I didnt like it, its his way or the highway.  I am fine taking the highway. 

AnotherPhoenix - I know what you mean.  I dont think i could have made it through those first days of the break up without being able to soothe myself and have my own back.

I use it now to calm my nerves, and to help my impulse control.  "Nothing has to be done now", "its ok".  "The world will continue on, and its ok wait to make decisions until you feel you are stronger... . "  "You will make the best decisions for yourself this way."  "Ive got your back, and I love you."

Maria, your perfect the way you are.  :)

Clair- thank you 

The ruminations on my BPDex stopped a long time ago. My cfs has been around for a long time I think but I'm having a particularly bad time these last few months. I have days in bed but BPDex hasnt been on my mind. its been overall positive. Im looking after myself and learning to meet my own needs.

The feeling good is held back by my FOO stuff at times and that bad day brought me to a realisation that BPDex counteracted the negative voices from my FOO. It was more a balanced look at what our relationship was and a grieving for that.

Laelle- right back at ya 

Hey Maria,

Sending  your way.  You are a survivor.  Have a good day.

I didn't have a difficult childhood - mostly the opposite - but there are strong FOO messages that pulled me down and in recent years, my exH has been really good at, as you put it, counteracting these messages.  I think he tried to before but they were so ingrained, I couldn't see what he was getting at.  So, yes, I grieve having my 'partner' who supported and encouraged me to be myself.  So confusing that he was also the person 'squishing' me more than anyone else at times.  Really hard to reconcile the two.

I have been feeling good about myself today because I handed in my resignation and am soon going to be leaving a job that has been mostly soul-destroying to go to one that I really hope will help me rebuild my confidence in the workplace.

What kind of day are you having today Maria?

My BPDex ended our relationship just as he started to abuse me. It was as if he knew he had to save me from it so I never got any real nasty stuff. I'm sure it would have got there though.

Today I started group therapy. 5 other women. They are a group already. It works pretty much like bpdfamily PI, only in real life.

It was amazing. Within minutes I was crying just triggered by women talking about their mothers and their daughters. People talked about how to detach from difficult people, how to help violent family members. Wow. I have committed to up to two years in this group. I feel very lucky.

I left the group feeling good and within a few minutes had feelings of self doubt around some  of the support I had offered. Managed to see that for what it was and feel good again. It was a warm day and I had a winter coat on. I went and bought myself a nice summer jacket. Got home so tired. My cfs is really bad last couple of days after feeling energetic and doing too much.

Tonight has been hard. My kids come back from their dads tired and needy and changeover day is full on. But all in all things are good in my life. Things are getting better even though it hurts to grow and grieve.

thanks for this - I need to hold on to believing that with the grieving can come the growth. 

Sounds like the group was overall a positive experience but draining.  Hope you get a chance for some rest and the cfs improves. 

What's the new summer jacket like?  I just bought a turquoise one for a recent interview and I feel good every time I put in on.  Have never been one for colour therapy and am not actually interested in clothes (have no idea what most women's fascination with shoes is!) but I love this jacket  :)

It's dark green combat type thing- casual. Top Shop. I love clothes and love feeling good in them. I have been feeling so tired this last couple of months I've not been bothering but it makes me feel better in myself when I look good. Shallow and meaningless but it works for me  *)

The group was great. Grieving can only ever be a good thing. I've grieved the BPDex. It's my mother and my brother and my childhood I need to grieve for.

Maybe your grief goes back further too?

I'm excited for you starting group therapy.  That sounds very positive.  I'll be interested to know how it goes.  I've been to my new therapist twice and I see her again tomorrow.  She seems very knowledgeable on BPD, but we will take the focus off that eventually and start looking closer at what I need to change.  I can see a lot of my relationship troubles stem from my codependency. 

I find myself noticing more closely when I'm experiencing these uncomfortable feelings and I try to look inside myself or to healthy outlets instead of to the person I'm feeling codependent with.  It helps me to ask myself what I am feeling and then look for healthy ways to address it, or to just allow myself to feel whatever it is without reacting in a harmful way or trying to cover it up.  It is an uncomfortable process, for sure, but I see progress.

I understand what you are saying about purchasing and wearing a new jacket.  I bought a new jacket recently that I love, and I feel good when I'm wearing it.  I think that is a good thing, and another way to feel good about yourself!   :)

Hey Phoenix  

I'm excited for you with your new therapist. Does that mean we are codependent?  

The group therapy was very powerful. I wasn't expecting it to be so emotional. I sort of decided to not to say anything because its an existing group. I didn't want to be pushy- wanted to respect that they have been wiring together already. But one woman was talking about how difficult her life is supporting her adult children. I was do admiring of her strength in enforcing boundaries and desperately trying to do the right thing in it all. I had to say that so I did. I said a couple of other supportive things to other members too.

I'm looking forward to turning some of the focus on me but I have no idea if i will really be able to go there. I look forward to hearing how you do that too.

I see your active participation as a very good thing.  I believe you probably have much more to offer than you realize.


You have already been 'going there' on the site for some time now.  I believe in you.  Have a great day.   

Thank you Phoenix.   When I focus on my problems I feel wrong somehow, uncomfortable, I know that's to do with codependency. I'm trying to get more used to that and force myself to. This site is invaluable for that because we can do it anonymously but still in a real way.

I do it but hate myself after wards. It's shame I suppose. That's why group therapy is so good for me I think. I can't look to one person (the T) for the answers. The group mirrors my place and my interactions in the real world. That's the idea anyway.

You have a good evening too. I'm sitting down in the gap between dinner and bedtime whilst my kids are occupied. I never sit down when I have them on a school night!  :)

I can relate.  I've realized that part of me wants to feel guilty when I express my needs, but I'm seeing it does not make sense to feel guilty, and when I do express my needs I feel empowered afterwards.  It is challenging, but doable.  We are definitely learning and growing.  Thank you for being a part of my recovery.   

Thank you Phoenix Rising. You are a very special person  :)

Something came to me today. I remembered being on the phone to my father in my early twenties. I was complaining about something, feeling very low. I don't remember what about but I did have a difficult time when I was completing my nurse training as I worked at the same time.

I can remember unloading on him, not something I usually did. I can also remember wanting him to make me feel better. His response was to say 'I think you should count your blessings.'

And that's what I did. But I can remember feeling like I'd been punched in the guts. That I'd opened up to him and that's what I'd got back. I suppose what it tells me is that my father couldn't really deal with me having a hard time with anything. I never had a hard time with anything either! My father would be constantly ringing me to unload all his stuff about my crazy brother's latest escapades or his own latest wonderful theatrical performance but I don't know what my purpose was for him other than to serve a purpose of listening and serving a purpose.

But he was always very sweet and caring. He would do things to help me but only when it suited him I think.

I don't write this to blame my father for my issues but it helps me to see I don't know how to get my needs met. I'm uncomfortable with it because it just never really happened. I really appreciated BPDex for making me have them met. He knew how to do that. He taught me I could have a two way relationship. Yes I know that sounds bizarre talking about  person with BPD traits but I think he may have had therapy in the past and I think he tried desperately to watch himself. I also believed he did try to meet other people's needs. I think, in part it's why I find it difficult to cut him out. He taught me something about myself that I may never have learned otherwise. He was the beginning of me liking myself.

Doesn't mean I'm considering a relationship with him folks, it just means I have some gratitude with him and I appreciate parts of him. I don't have that with other exes.

I know what you mean by being disappointed while opening up to a parent.  I was engaged, had a good job, my own apartment... . etc etc.  I called my mom and told her I was pregnant, and she told me that I was stupid.  When I complained about morning sickness, she told me I should not have gotten pregnant.  My sister, when pregnant, fireworks shot off, and im sure we had a party at hearing the news. When she had morning sickness, my mom went to her house to watch my niece so she could sleep.  Why was I such a failure and not worthy?

I guess your ex maybe represented how you felt your dad should have treated you?  A dad that was caring, open and honest.  Gave you the strength and support to make your own decisions without having dad Poo FOO in your head?  or maybe he validated you because Dad didnt value you, and he did.  So, you felt that you were worth something and dad was wrong.  I dont blame you at all for appreciating having had your BPDex come into your life.  I feel the same.  Being shown your own issues is tough and hard to take, but I know for me I always wanted to feel "normal", and now is my chance.

I would love to be able to join a therapy group.  Not having anyone who understands me is hard sometimes.

 

Why would your mum do that to you and be so nice to your sister? How can parents be so downright abusive and cruel. It isn't fair Laelle.

It's funny but you typing that you miss having someone who gets you makes me realise I miss it so much less now than I did. He doesn't seem to get me quite so much as he did. He isn't so inside my head and my life. Maybe that is because it wasn't as real as it seemed.

What you say about him being the father I wanted him to be- yeah. Also the mother I missed who was around sometimes as I grew up but was off at work or off in her head.

Getting myself is working for me. Didn't imagine it would but it really is. I only realise that in not longing for what he gave me. That's not what I want any more.

Wow.  :light:

Maybe you could find a therapy group? You know I don't even know about it til I went in the waiting list for the service.

Because she didnt approve of my job, my husband or my apartment.  My sister always did things the right way, while I was the black sheep.  How could I be anything else, there was no room for anyone in my moms eyes but my sister.

My ex accepted and valued me until he didnt anymore.

As mothers we know we just couldn't do that to our children. We know how it feels. It's horrible you had to be treated like that by your mother.

It suited my ex to value me. It still does. He still seems to miss the fact that we 'get each other'. I feel sad that he misses that. I line to think he is managing better on his own as I am. I have a sneaky suspicion he is playing a long game with me. I hope not because I'm not playing along.

I'm sorry for the invalidation you received, Maria and Laelle.  I felt a lot of the same feelings growing up, like I didn't have my voice, or my problems shouldn't be discussed with my parents.  I've been feeling a little closer to my dad, however, the past couple of years since I moved back to my home state and we both quit drinking and are in recovery.  It feels more like he is becoming my friend, but it is sad, too, because he is now 70.  I am 44.

Sometimes I've felt like my dad didn't want to hear my problems because he felt guilty or responsible for my problems, like it was all his fault.  Granted, some of his decisions did have a negative impact on our family, like his having an affair while married to mom, and our family splitting up.  I know my mom had a part to play as well.  I'm almost certain now my mom has BPD.  Two therapists have pretty much confirmed this, and I've been seeing it much more clearly.  This is a huge revelation for me, needless to say.  I am very attracted to BPD women.

This brings up another point for me.  With my mom probably being BPD, she has no boundaries, or very little anyway.  I never quite know where I stood with her.  I was often confused on where I stood or what it meant to state my needs.  She taught me how not to state your needs, and also that her needs were the most important.  I'm still trying to sort some of this out in my head, as my therapist was talking to me about it yesterday.  She recommended reading the book Boundaries by Henry Cloud.  I'm not sure I'm making sense, but that's ok. 

Maria, I think you're doing a great job coming to these realizations, and I think it's great you are realizing you don't have to get your needs met from your parents.  You are good enough the way you are, and you can give a lot of that love to yourself.  Also, healthy people will listen to you and respond and meet your needs.  Take care.

Hey Phoenix, I think its great that you and your dad are mending some fences.  I know both of you probably wish it had happened earlier, but there is no better time than today.

I'm sure that your dad carries alot of guilt for your home life growing up.  From how you explain it, your parents had a loaded relationship, and never really had any emotional support left for you.

I'm really sorry you had to hurt that way.  I know how it feels to be invisible, or worse to have your voice ignored or invalidated.  

Your making complete sense about your ex teaching you not to need things.

My ex did the same with my needs.  I heard comments like "How could you worry me with _____, when I have to worry about _____?"   OFTEN.

"We will sort out your problems later, now what will we do about my problems?"  over and over.

I may look into that book as well.  I will have a long ride going home and will need some good read.     to everyone.