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Just wondering - did anyone else's exBPD have issues with touching or sex?  Like in the beginning they loved sex and touching, and toward the end pulled away or said they didn't feel like touch or sex was so important?  Mine told me after about 5 months into us being physical (we dated for a while first and he told me he loved me before we had sex)  that he goes through periods of not wanting or needing sex.

After that I noticed a pattern that it seemed like most of the time I had to initiate, or there would be no sex.  He was just as happy to watch tv, play board games or sleep as to have sex.  Even though those things were fun, I missed being pursued and desired, and still thought it was way too early in the relationship for the sex to wane.  Especially since every time we had it it was so good, and he would always say it was the best ever for him, because it was spiritual as well as physical for the first time in his life. 

I even put it out there that quickies were okay, just so he wouldn't have to feel pressured every time we made love to make it spectacular.  I just was so happy to connect with him that way.

Then when we were hanging out a couple of days before he broke it off, he tells me that he feels asexual, and that I should just think of him like he has his "period" that day.  Then the next day when we talk over the phone, he says that touching isn't that important to him anymore, that it used to be but that he can take or leave it now.  Then he says how he's sorry, and that he thinks this is unfair to me because he knows how much I like touching and being touched. The very next day he was looking to break up with me.

All this went down 4 days after we had incredible sex that we both really enjoyed.  So confusing. 

Wondering if anyone else went through this as well?  It wasn't like I was expecting sex twice a day, or every day, or even every time we got together.  But I started noticing that if he hung out three times in a week he would be fine not initiating sex at all until the fourth time we hung out.  It just seemed weird because he was young (mid to late 30's) healthy, no physical issues, and supposedly in love with me, and told me I was beautiful all the time. 

Anyone else experience this?  And for the guys, is this normal?  I'm wondering if my expectations were unreasonable.

I'm interested in responses to this Leftbehind,

my sexual relationship can at best be described as feast or famine, and I've lost so much semblance of normality, I honestly have no idea what is normal.  It got to the point I would Google, "standard" expectations and frequency and came to the conclusion it's such a wide variety in all relationships, I look back and see that sex was much more used as a means to an end... .  When there was a period of silent treatment, I would effectively disengage and await for her to "come round/calm down and re-engage" then make up sex took place instead of discussing the cause... .  

The times I didn't want sex (admittedly very few, I was castigated as being selfish, uncaring, or even provoked comments of, "well go and find someone else when you want it... .  " (reality being I had played sport and was physically knackered and just needed sleep... .  of course when she was knackered, it was fine to say so to me without a fuss being made... .  

As I say, I have lost all frames of reference as I was part of this for so long... .  whilst I think this is further down the road for my recovery, thought I would input to show the effect it can have... .  

Whichwayisup

 For me that wouldn't be normal,but I can't speak for every guy out there.Maybe some just don't see sex as an important part of a RS.My ex certainly didn't.Sex was more of a method to get what she wanted,and withheld if she didn't get her way.It's a rather cruel punishment and control method.Another thing that lowers one's self esteem.

The story overhere:

- My stbxBPDw never liked being touched.

- My stbxBPDw never liked being looked at.

- In the first months sex was a daily duty. Every day the alarmclock was set an hour before we had to get up, to do the deed. That wasn't my idea of fun, so I talked her out of that.

- After that sex wasn't inspiring and felt like an obligation: once or twice a week, on a friday- or sundaymorning she would be ready for me. I could try other moments, but it just never happened, whatever I tried.

- She has used the word 'asexual' once.

- During sex I thought she enjoyed it. Looking back I'm not sure. And: I don't care.

This is a new twist... .  everything I have read about this disorder points to utilizing sex as the best high intensity remedy to mask the pwBPD/NPDs pain.  Maybe its because my ex is a combo BPD/NPD!  In retrospect, it was always about sex... .  extreme sex... .  sometimes down right pornographic!  She would have sex with me at the drop of a hat!  In fact she would say "i don't have to have sex... .  in fact I have gone without sex for a long time"... .  I don't think so.  I know she just wasn't/didn't do those things just with me.  You dont get that good at it... .  and enjoy the intensity like she did just because she loved me! 

People with BPD take their bad feelings about themselves and project them onto their partner.  It's hard for them to feel attracted to someone that is very bad in their minds.

With people with NPD, you are pretty much a sex toy.  It's more like masturbation to them and the partner is like a vibrator or something.

I think the important thing is that you recognize what you value in a RS.That's a big step towards finding a RS that suits you(and me/us). If/when you see this affection being withheld in the future,you'll know that it's a sign that maybe that person isn't for you.

You are who you are,and you like what you like.There's nothing wrong with that.Where we went wrong was thinking our SO would come around to our way of thinking,instead of just accepting that they weren't meant for us.

 

My ex withheld sex completely for a couple of months and wouldn't initiate sex under any circumstances throughout our relationship.  I think this is more about control than anything else; he thought he was losing control and decided to call the shots about everything.  I also think their rejection fears keeps them from initiating sex because my ex literally broke up with me once because I didn't feel like it.  In a few days he had forgotten about the entire incident and wondered why I was being so "distant." I was always in a "no win" situation no matter what I did.

This type of behavior is passive aggressive and withholding sex could also be a type of punishment in their eyes.  It's confusing and keeps us in the "game" by trying harder to win their affection.  More manipulation.

tailspin

Tailspin, I think you're right about some people with BPD seeing sex as a way to control.  I remember when I was just friends with my ex before dating him, I asked him whether or not he thought his ex wife was still in love with him.  His answer was really disturbing to me.  He said, "I know she'd still f*** me, but that's because she'd think she could control me then."

I didn't understand the connection about sex and control that he was making.  I'm sure in retrospect when I initiated sex, or talked to hm about wanting making love to be part of our day together, that he must have thought I was trying to control him too.

leftbehind,

Their life is a total contradiction all the time and I think (for some) it comes from the mixed signals they received when they were young from their primary caregiver.  The person who was supposed to love, support and care for them was unreliable and, as a result, they learned early that keeping people off-balance gives you the upper hand. Sex is just one tool in their arsenal that allows them to do this.

It's so hard not to take what they've done to us personally because it hurts.  It does help to remember your ex was this way before you met him and he will remain this way long after you're gone.

tailspin

My ex felt that I wasn't being "reciprocal" in sexual acts and that there was an imbalance. Rather than telling me outright so that it could be addressed (even though I always try to be mindful of such things), she began toning down her adventurous sexual nature, and then began outright withholding. I assumed this is because she was stressed with work, so I never pressured her (as I'm NOT that type of a guy). At one point, she lashed out at me about not pressuring her and implied that I didn't desire her; she made a comment like ":)id you notice that I gradually stopped putting on sexy outfits and [doing certain things to you]? I guess you just didn't care." Not sure if she wanted me to be a mind reader or what... .  

lhd981, my ex wanted me to read his mind too.  He wouldn't say when he was feeling unhappy or what he was unhappy about, so I never was given a chance to make things right.  Just broke up with me instead.  I would have bent over backwards to make things work if I knew he was secretly holding grudges. 

and Tailspin, thank you for reminding me that he was this way before I met him, and will still be this way with the next one.  I keep forgetting that. 

I think he's looking for the perfect woman that he will never have to communicate difficult feelings with, because she'll be so perfect for him that there will be no need.  Instead of realizing that when you find a good fit and there's a lot of love, you can work at communication and make the relationship stronger/resolve conflicts/build intimacy.  Just my opinion.

Likewise, leftbehind! When I found out about these grudges she was harboring, my immediate reaction was to show her love and understanding, to try to work through them with her, but it was too late by then. Her motto seemed to be "shoot first and ask questions later", so to speak.

Believe me, I'm the archetypal CD people pleaser. If I had seen a single frown or passive aggressive statement, I would've brought up the issue and done everything to work with it, but no, she was just as lovey dovey and affectionate as ever (just not sexual). Then one day, BAM. Out of the blue, she throws this at me.

I wonder if that's part of the "testing" or confirmation bias for them; where the fact that we're not magically, intuitively aware of their gripes convinces them that we're "just like the rest" and therefore should be gotten rid of.

It happened to me and my ex-BPD wife... .  

The sex died basically right after the honeymoon. We were married in May 2009, honeymooned in June, and didn't have sex again until August. The following January, sex became maybe once month. As terrible as this sounds, we maybe had sex 15 times as a married couple. I would try to initiate and she just didn't feel like it

My ex-wife gained a lot of weight due to her depression issues and was embarassed of her body (I still thought she was beautiful no matter what)  Her anti-depressants supposedly killed her libido... .  and she did not like to hug me or even kiss me. I once leaned in to kiss her cheek and she literally shuddered.

She was on cymbalta, strattera, lamictal, and I forget. Doesn't matter now.

Our sex life was INCREDIBLE while we were dating. 5 days a week at least and sometimes twice an afternoon on the weekends.

What makes me so angry is that she is supposedly "seeing someone" now and has lost all of her weight!  If this new guy even exists (I see no proof or hear anything) I'm sure her sex drive has magically reappeared.  So nice of her to pull out all of the stops for some guy she just met but withhold everything from her husband.

In the beginning, she couldn't get me out of my clothes fast enough. Told me she loved me within 2 weeks. Was planning a wedding and family probably within 3 weeks. But most of her triggers were definitely sex-related. When I wanted to save my virginity, she was just paralyzed b/c I wanted to wait until Valentine's Day... .  a week later! But, my T explained to me that people who have been sexually abused do not have that STOP signal when it comes to sex. It's basically just like whoever, whenever. I believe her first husband withheld from her (for whatever reason). When she wanted it, she had to have it. When she was "tired" or didn't, I was just plain up the creek. Of course from the way things started and the way she projected herself at the beginning, I thought she was really into it. During the downfall she told me that the first time that "I wanted you to $$$# me." I thought it was "love", and to her it may have been. But isn't love more than intensity? Looking back and examining my feelings and the events very carefully, I believe most of the dynamic was lack of impulse control by her and her "splitting" me and herself. She came on very fast and very strong, and I mistakenly believed it was because it was love. Really, it was more likely her trying to relieve her loneliness, and just plain wanting it and being unable to wait, but when I was tired I was seen as "rejecting". It's the classic no-win.

The important thing is find out why we were involved in this type of r/s and learning boundaries and taking care of ourselves. I know this r/s wouldn't have lasted for me. She broke it off while I was still "in love", so maybe she did recognize just how different she was and that it was unlikely I would stay.

More to the thread, toward the end she cut off all affection and sex. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. We had no serious arguments. I was still the same guy. It was just mind-boggling and depressing!

Another thing that just came to me, and it should've been a red flag at the time:

I once commented (more like gushed) on what a sexually charged free spirit she was, along with her immense affection. She smiled and thanked me with a kiss, then said "It's better than being called a frigid b***h!". I gave her a hug and a surprised look - she mentioned that it was something she had been called by an ex. I just couldn't believe it!

Not my sweet, sexual, loving partner!

Of course, towards the end of our relationship, I could certainly easily see how he could have thought that about her. (Even though I'd never say anything like that to a woman)

I had to reply to this for support of the original person that posted.  

Your post sounded exactly like my entire 10 years with my exwife.  She used the term "asexual" all the time.  I would go months to the point where i suggested counseling many times for us.  Not just for the sexual relationship, however; it seemed to be the biggest issue.  The relationship skewed my perception of healthy sexual relationships.  I felt like a horse with my reigns being pulled in one direction then the other.  She would say that I needed to do this and needed to do that.  Also said that "you have no game".  

Before this most recent break-up and subsequent divorce, I questioned myself.  Was it me?  Was I putting too much pressure?  I know I wasnt because I wouldnt say anything for a month or 2 before I brought up the lack of sexual and/or even touching.  She would tell me to be more affectionate, then i would try to hug her and she would not like it, i would kiss her more, but would say "i hate saliva".  I would get flowers, she would say "why did you waste the money".  She asked for poetry and even though i am not a poet, i would write them.  She would laugh.  

Then when it got real bad and you could tell she was almost about to leave (again), she would prance around naked, tease me a lot, do all types of sexual things, then when i would approach her, get mad.  Then she would say "not now, later", then that would never occur.  

I looked up tons of things on the web.  She said she had medical problems, which none were ever found when going to the doctor.  I looked up sexual dysfunction issues, relational issues, marriage and sex, solutions.  I offerred everything and she said "I am never going to regiment sex, I compromise enough as it is".  Every 6 weeks or so we would have great sex.  

The only time our sexual relationship was good, was after she completely screwed up big time, then it would be very good and consistent as she said once "to win me back".  

It was a constant cycle.  It was HELL

She told me to find others to have sex with.  I didnt want to do that.  I wasnt going to fall into that mess.  

I even suggested once that we should NOT have sex for like 6 months to see if we can work on the relationship.  It was the biggest issue from what I thought.  It should have been easy for her as she said she was "asexual" and really only ever wanted it every 6 weeks or 2 months maybe.  It would have been more difficult for me, but none was a better thought than maybe.  SHE got mad and was not willing to attempt it.  This is when i really noticed it was more about control.  She totally had me controlled with it.  SICK SXXT and i fell for it totally.  

Leftbehind- i dont think it is normal for guys.  Although, I question if my perception of sexuality in relationships is skewed.  I love sex and have found tons of women that seem to use it more as a tool to obtain something versus the fun of having it.  I will say that most guys if offered a "quicky" will jump on that wonderful opportunity.  :)

After the honeymoon was over my ex made me feel like a pervert.  Which I thought was crazy because we would have sex maybe once a month, and although I wasn't happy with that he told me he was having a lot of problems at work and sex was the last thing on his mind so I was trying to be understanding.  But he would always withdraw from me after we had sex.  He would literally curl up in a ball and not want to be touched.   

He told me once I was pressuring him for sex.  He also told me that "you always get weird after we have sex".   

wowjer & everyone else who responded - thank you so much.  It helps to hear a man's perspective on this.  Also thanks to the women who commented as well.

My ex knew how much I enjoyed sex and touching with him, and I feel he pulled it away at certain times when he was holding secret grudges or frustrations toward me.  (lhd981 - thank you for validating that the BPD person harbors these grudges and then expects their partner to be a mind reader.)

I think he left when he realized this would be a problem - that I would want  sexual consistency of some sort.  In retrospect if I had just accepted that he was really two different people (at least!), and accepted that one of those people was asexual, ungrounded, spacey, and felt like a little kid inside, then maybe I could have made the relationship work. But I didn't know or understand that he was BPD until after the relationship broke up and my T said he's a classic case.  Another relationship professional suggested this too, and many people here have said he sounds textbook.  It wasn't even in my mind until I started to hear from others that it sounded like he had some sort of mental illness.  Many people said bipolar, but the professionals said BPD.

Anyway, I actually regret not accepting this other side to him.  I was still treating him like a "non", and saw his pulling away as a lack of interest or punishing.  I am also wondering if he may have Dissociative Identity Disorder.  From the beginning he would talk about this "other guy" that would show up.  He called it his higher self, as in "sometimes I'm completely in my higher self." 

The last two months we were together, he seemed to me like he was dissociating a lot, but I'm not a therapist so I wasn't sure.  I thought maybe he's just ungrounded.  When he was in that state he would talk differently, act differently, even look different. 

Anyway, maybe my angels were protecting me, because let me tell you if he hadn't broken up with me I would have stayed with him.  Most likely the sexual dry spells would have gotten longer and longer, and I think he would have ended up cheating (newer, greener, fresher fields would have been enticing to him).

But there is such a big part of me that blames myself.  I got mad right before he broke up with me because of his pulling away (sexually,emotionally and energetically, it seemed to me), and I told him I wasn't going to initiate sex anymore because it made me feel rejected and humiliated when he told me no.  Within ten minutes I apologized and said that I was being bratty and selfish.  He seemed to forgive me and we had a nice, platonic night.  But he was looking to break up with me two days later.

I'm pretty good at reading energy and body language, and I think I called him on a problem that had existed in his last two relationships.  I'm thinking this is something that we can fix, but he must have thought, "Here we go again, time to leave!"

Aww, bananas that's rough! Believe me I can sympathize

leftbehind: I understand you, been there too. And I know how it feels as a woman to be rejected. We have been told so many times that men want sex, and they want it all the time... .  and we find ourselves in rs where our man seems to have no troubles to manipulate us with sex (I think my ex did not really understand he was manipulating me, for him it must have been normal behaviour and he thought everybody is like him in that department too). It hurts, and we start to question is there something ugly in us, are we not desirable?

I will not have a relationship without sex, that is for sure. Sex in relationship is that important for me. And my ex knew it. He told me with his ex-gf they did not have sexlife at all in the last three years! I had to ask, why an earth he is thinking it was a relationship at all? They saw eachother maybe once a week, and no sex. And he was over 30 years old. Now I know that is the rs he wants. He wants a relationship with no intimate closeness. I hope he will find a woman who can tolerate it, because I can't, thats for sure. In our last "recycle" there was no sex at all. Suddenly he had decided he had to get "emotionally close" to me first. It took two months, and I knew the day will never come. I was where he wanted me to be, available, pursuing after him and he did not have to give me anything, not even one kiss. For me, it was his last, desperate attemp to control me with ultimate withholding.

This is hilarious: in our last phone conversation I told him I didn't want to have sex with him either anymore, I was so tired of all that withholding. Yep! He got MAD! And he was hurt because I dare to say I did not want him anymore! Where was his upper hand now?

I really hope I will find a healty man, who wants what I want and does not use my needs against me.

Hi everyone -

My exBPD did the same.  witheld sex, affection or used it as a power and control thing to try and get what she wanted at times.  It's malicious.  Left me wondering WTH was wrong with me?

Miserable feeling

MCC

After we had the 'argument' ( which I think was the point where the relationship turned a 180 ) she would hardly even touch me, wouldnt hold my hand in public, would sleep on the other side of the bed, said I was stifling her ( which was absolute rubbish, we only saw each other maybe twice a month ), I remember one time after that we did have sex, which she initiated, but that was because she was drunk - in the morning when she realised she had been holding me all night she rolled over to the other side of the bed. That made me feel great.

it seemed like when she was drunk or intoxicated she was affectionate with me, but when she sobered up and realised what she was doing she went back to being cold again - it was like drink or drugs suppressed her BPD feelings... .  

Reading through this thread made me think about what kind of sex life I had with my exw and It really wasn't very good. When my exw and I were dating it was sex all the time and she did things in the bedroom that never happened after we married. She actually couldn't remember doing certain things in the bedroom or lied and said she didn't remember. At some point during our marriage it turned into her having self proclaimed intimacy problems but she didn't know why as she said she was never abused. I was accused of treating her like an object for being affectionate and wanting to connect. It turned into us having sex about once every 4-6 weeks when she wanted sex and I realize now that I was the one that felt like an object and was emotionally starved. Somewhere along the way she also started to complain that I was too big, but yet she never did that during idealization when she told her family that " I was her knight in sining armor"

Here's a little bit of the disorder. 


Some of those strong feelings waxing and waning can attribute to the inconsistent level of intimacy. 

One thing that might help to consider is if the person was capable of having the type to relationship, and level of intimacy or consistency, you needed.  It may be they weren't a safe partner in this respect considering the level of other dysfunction that was happening in the relationship. 

apple:  this made me LMAO because I could have written the same EXACT thing.  All the way to the end with the "knight in shining armor".  She called me that up until she left again for another guy.  My daughter went on to tell me that she calls XXXX her "knight in shining armor" and "prince charming".  that was 6 months ago.  Since then, just recently she asked me to move someplace warm with the kids and she will come with.  I didnt even respond. 

Wowjer: It's bizarre how so many people have shared the same exact experiences down to the same words and scenarios yet the partners were different. It's almost as though there is a BPD mothership controlling all of them. lol

I'm happy you had a good laugh cause everyone who comes here needs it after living in OZ. :)

Hi Leftbehind!

My ex and I were not intimate (because I haven't been intimate with anyone yet and wasn't ready when he was here), but I noticed that on one occasion he refused to tell me he loved me.  We had broken up and were trying to work on things, but I wasn't really ready to get into a full-fledged relationship with him again because I had a feeling he wouldn't change.  Still, saying "I love you" was common for us.

One night before going to bed, I texted him that I loved him.  His response?  "I don't think I can tell someone I love them who isn't ready to be in a relationship with me."  I was sort of put off.  I took it as him trying to pressure me into saying "Alright, we'll make it official again.  It'll be back the way it was before," but that's not what I wanted.  I was hurt, so I told him "You either love someone or you don't, and you don't use those words in order to punish someone.  You shouldn't NOT tell someone you love them just because you aren't in an official relationship.  The next day he apologized and said that he was more hurt than he'd like to admit.

In retrospect, it seems silly of me to get upset, but I guess it bothered me so much because he's just the type of person to use any and everything to punish me or as leverage to get me to do what he wants.

My exBPD had issues with intimacy all around. She couldn't handle being kissed and held. Especially sex. When we first met she told me she had intimacy issues and I repsected that. After 3 months of me not making a move, and being a typical man she decided to take to bed. This is where things went downhill for me because I became attached. She told me that she was very selective with her partners and didn't just sleep around. So whenever we did anything I felt "special" Like I made the cut! When she decided that she was over the "I am crazy about you stage" She reduced our intimacy to something two consenting adults do. Like it was nothing more than a screw. It became an addiction of mine to be intimate with her. I couldn't even kiss her or hold her hand without her flipping out which usually left me nearly in tears. Like I did something wrong! Just thinking about it eats me alive!

Funny you should mention feeling like you "made the cut"! Mine said something identical, about how she doesn't just sleep around and has never had a one night stand! How special I felt, especially being a "larger" guy and she being very pretty and in great shape (loved going to the gym). Like you, I waited two months before we had sex - something which ended up making her very upset; she even accused me of being gay. We ended up having sex right after that fight. Romantic, huh?

But there was more to the story. She started dating and being sexually active at 18. She was going on 25 when we met. She told me many, many stories about her past boyfriends. It turned out that in less than 7 years, she sure did have a lot of boyfriends (all lasting between 1-3 months). And some of these guys were even larger than me.

When she became busy, our sex life didn't exist. Imagine my surprise when, after a three month busy period at work (with limited sex - which I was more than understanding of), I show up at her company party only to find her drunkenly flirting - and I mean FLIRTING - with a coworker. She later apologized. Her excuse? "Well, you hadn't touched me in three months... .   "

lhd981,

Isn't it all so funny? Very selective? "I just don't sleep around" What a total bunch of crap! I still feel to this day I was a rebound for her ex, which may I add she chased after when she was done idolizing me. She also told me that I was the best looking man she had ever been with, and trust me I know this to be true! Not saying I am the greatest looking thing walking around but still! You speak of flirting? One thing that absolutely ticked me off was when she would get random texts from guys asking for favors and such. The pic messages always really got to me. First of all why are all these guys sending you this crap? What gave them the impression that you were up for that kind of thing? Do you think I am that stupid? She would complain about receiving messages of that nature and I would tell her, why don't you tell them to knock it off or you will report them for harrassment. Her response? "I just ignore them" Give me a break! Somewhere along the line you instigated/slept with these guys. What stung the most was when I found out she had slept with a guy not too long before we had met. A one time thing according to her. I can't judge people and what they did in their past but when you tell me you don't sleep around and you are very selective with partners it really hurts! It is funny how their stories fall apart. You will probably also find that her timeline doesn't add up. My ex's never did! I could swear some of the things she told me about past boyfriends overlapped, as if she was dating two people at one time.

Did we date the same person? Did you read my journal?

She'd often tell me, when her phone went off, "oh, that's just my ex so-and-so texting me bugging me to hang out." And she'd always ignore it. I wanted to say "hey, we've been dating for a few months now... .  maybe you could say something?", but I didn't want to come across as rude or controlling - neither of which I think I am. The funny thing is that he'd often be asking her to come over and smoke up with him, even though she claimed she was never really a pothead and had only done it "socially".

One time, she actually responded back to him and said that she told him that she was seeing somebody. She read back his response: "Oh, ok. Well, let me know if it doesn't work out. You're always fun to date!". Then she told me that while "they hadn't slept together in years", they'd still go out, drink and make out. Would you believe that only served to make me feel worse?

Or the time when she casually mentioned "Oh, never mind that guy who posted on my FB wall, we dated a while ago. I guess I'd probably go out on a date with him again if I were still single, but I probably wouldn't sleep with him again."

Despite her ardent OBSESSION with liars and lying - she constantly told me how she despised both - a lot of her history simply didn't reconcile. Her timeline just didn't make sense.

As for you being a rebound? Yeah, mine was in 2+ year emotional affair her former step-uncle (!), who was married and 17 years her senior; she told me he was at the concert where she and I met, but she insists it was all over before that point (as he wanted to work on his marriage). She actually got upset when she told me about him wanting to work on his marriage, though she assured me she no longer had feelings for him. Though when she told me about this emotional affair, she basically admitted to dating quite a few guys within those two years and how jealous he got.

And somehow this all seemed perfectly normal and reasonable at the time!

Haha! I was thinking the same thing as far as having dated the same person! The guy she had been in a relationship before me was 25 years her senior. She has a thing for older men, which may I add I was the youngest person she dated. They had a really messed up relationship. He was a habitual liar and they dated for 3 years. She eventually found out that every aspect of his life as she knew it was a lie. Told her his parents were dead, when they were alive, to driving under an expired license for 3 years. This only hits the tip of the iceberg. Anyways this coupled with her issues made for a match in HELL! They were constantly playing silly games throughout the time I was around her. She told me she wanted an honest man, who she didn't have ti "fix" That she was tired of attracting crazies. I was that man, which in return I found myself playing the hero. I wanted to be able treat her good like she had never been treated before. I got constant compliments! In the end he disappeared for awhile and this was when she decided to go back out with me and make it offical. The first time around she played the "were only friends" game. It was great for about 5 months until he showed back up. I got dumped and she is now chasing him around playing their sick games. Don't know how I will handle it if and when she shows back up!

Male here. In the first several months, sex was great and frequent. My wife wanted me. She also loved touching, cuddling, we would lay together to watch movies etc.

Then overnight, it just stopped. I always felt like I was having sex with somebody who didn't really care. It felt empty. She no longer touched me. She has not touched me in a loving way in three years. Se became transactional. We didn't have sex for five months once.

I would ask or initiate and she would say she didn't feel like it. Then she would promise tomorrow. Tomorrow would come and she wouldn't do it and sometimes I would get upset, others I would deal with it and ignore it. Then the next day she would do it.

It was always the same pattern too. Regardless of who would initiate, she would immediately just role on her back. She expected me to give her oral sex or that's what she wanted. She would not really touch me either.

Ultimately I have started dealing with premature ejaculation for the past six months. I truly believe it's my body or mind relating to me that I am having sex with somebody who does not want me. We are separating soon.

Welcome to the world of BPD... .  

I've pretty much stopped thinking about it, because it all makes sense to me now and I know it wasn't me, but the disorder acting out.

In the beginning: tons of mind-blowing sex. She couldn't get enough of it. Now I realize it was all motive to be valued and to hook me.

Then a slow detachment... .  Giving when she needed it, or when I was becoming distant through her volatile, emotional abuse. (fear of abandonment).

In the end: once every 2 months.

Withdrawl of sex had be come a punishment for working, saying the wrong or right thing... .  You name it.

She actually said to me once "When you're gone I want you, but when you're here I don't"   If that doesn't say it all... .  

Three weeks after our marriage of 15 years had broken up, she was in bed with the next guy and texting him about how great he was in bed... .  

That makes me smile now... .  Thank god I saved myself... .  

My wife started out the same way.  When we were dating it was at least once a day.  Once we got engaged it was once every couple months.  She blamed that on the stress from planning the marriage.  No sex on our wedding night and only once on our honeymoon.  I bet in 12 years of marriage we have had sex a dozen times.  Even when we were trying to have kids she would only have sex the day she was ovulating.  We haven't had sex or even kissed in over two and a half years now.  It was always something I was doing wrong that made it so she couldn't be in the mood.  She says she could go without sex for the rest of her life and all women are that way.  I finally realized a few months into this latest dry spell that it is all about control and domination for her.  I haven't tried to initiate anything for over two years.  Even now when we fight she talks about what I need to do for her to be in the mood and I tell her I don't want to have sex with her I just want her to be nice. 

Ya know as I read these posts I can't help but think it shouldn't be that hard.  It could so much easier.  A truly fulfilling relationship is out there waiting for you with someone else that problems like these are resolved. 

Here's to a healthier relationship in all aspects.

Yes GreenMango. You're totally right.

This thread again raises the question: who has the real problem, the BPD, or the NON, knowing that the last one keeps on dreaming of a good and healthy r/s, while he is broken down bit by bit on almost every part of his life?

I can relate to that too.  My exw would beg me to not go to work and take the night off and then she wouldnt spend any time with me when I did or call me while at work saying how much she missed me and when I got home there was no affection.

I try to look at it is its more a problem in general.  And for me I need a relationship that has healthier stuff going on. 

I try to remove the blame part because it just drives me batty circling around those questions.  Looking at what I can improve and what my limits feel a little more constructive.

The sex issue was soo damaging for me.  My H can be very good in bed... .  when he wants to be.  When I first dated him, it was amazing.  After we got engaged, it became only once every 1 1/2 to 3 weeks depending.  (He was 36 and blamed it on some depression he was dealing with - and I loved him and was understanding so didn't make it an issue. ?)  After we got married - the first year it was went from once every 2 weeks or so to once a month.  Then to once every 2 months.  The last two years of our marriage (we recently separated, have been married just over 4 years) have been especially bad.  We went on one stint that lasted 10 months, and the one we are on now has been almost 8! I would say we have probably had sex 5 times in the last 2 years!

Of course, I have no plans on sleeping with him ever again as I have moved out and filed for divorce.

I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I know (logically) it can't be that he isn't attracted to me as I am very fit and get a lot of attention from men.  Sad thing is - I don't FEEL attractive anymore after all this. 

I think for my H it has to be more than just BPD.  I think he has some sort of sexual problem and have even considered that he is a closet homosexual.  NOW - this is really weird because I would guess that he has been with somewhere between 100 and 200 women.  I don't know what to think honestly.  There is just something really off. 

It seems that he has used the sex as a means of control at times - that's for sure.  However, even with that, I don't see how a man who is otherwise healthy with an attractive spouse who WANTS them and INITIATED it constantly (up until the end when the rejection became too much) would go that long without needing it himself.

I think it is possible mine only got off/turned on with very shallow, twisted, non-emotionally intimate experiences.  Like it had to be some new chic he met at a bar and had no relationship with and it would be hot for the first few months and then he would be on to the next one. (I did not meet him in a bar - just to clarify - but he def. picked up a lot of bar trash I later found out.) He would even say creepy things in bed.  I remember earlier on when we first started sleeping together he would stare at me and tell me to "smile" in a weird voice.  ?

I have come to the conclusion that my H is more NPD than BPD.  And of course he would ALWAYS blame me for why we weren't having sex.

Regarding the affection, that was nonexistent for the most part too.  There were many times he would ROLL HIS EYES when I went to go cuddle up with him, hug him, etc. A lot of times he would stand there like a tree with his arms at his sides when I went to hug him.  He would cringe or jerk away a lot when I would touch him.

He was just very SICK. 

It's nice to know this didn't happen to just me.

Right around the time my partner split me, he absolutely stopped wanting to touch me. I remember leaning in to kiss him and he actually turned his head. This is common... .

"Sad thing is - I don't FEEL attractive anymore after all this. "

I went through the same Lady31.Enter exBPDgf,stage left. She helped me feel like a man again.Lots of attention!

The problem with that was that I was relying on someone else to feel my own self worth.

Withholding sex and using it to control is a cruel thing for someone to do.

Lady31 - the first time I met my ex I couldn't tell if he was gay or straight.  Weirdly, he sends out both vibes.  Then my good friend who is a gay woman said post breakup that she always got a bisexual vibe from my ex.  While my ex and I were together a bisexual man ended up hitting on him.  I know sex was also a bone of contention somewhat in his last two relationships before me, so there might be some connection, I'm not sure.  I read that one of the signs of BPD could be switching sexual preferences - like they switch everything else for the new person (politics, religion, diet).  Not sure, but it does cross my mind.


Same thing happened to me.  This forum is a lifesaver. Thanks Rocknut.  I thought I was losing my mind.

we have all lost our mind leftbehind. Finding it is the journey. :)

Two times in two different difficult times between us, I tried to comfort her when she was upset by friendly putting my hand on her arm (1) and my hand on her shoulder (2). Both times I got hit. Hard.

Interesting topic! I heard some conflicting things even before we started dating.

1. Her ex hubi had complained that she was a prude (turned out far from the truth)

2. She was a pagan witch - her spirituality was "all about sex"

3. Another time she said she could go for long periods with sex (asexual)

4. Complained that when she was prescribed anti depressants it interfered with her libido so she had to quit them.

I should have known something was "off kilter" but I fell in love with her - the sex part was really good until I got an email out of the blue "I do not want to deepen my intimacy with you - I will no longer carry on as we have been" Ouch.

So no sex for about 3 months - then she moves in with me for a week (she was losing her house). Tells me I am the best lover in the world and is feeling sexual again. Wants to make love the next night. That night we are watching a movie and she storms out - comes back the next day and moves all her thing out.

That was basically it. I am glad we didn't make love that last week - the sudden separation would have been even more brutal than it was.

I went the last two years without sex. In the first year I asked why it had stopped, she told me I didn't go to bed with her when she went to bed. Well, I made sure I was in bed every night for the next year before she even got into bed and still no sex. It only got worse, I went to bed one night and found we now had separate blankets. She would move as far to the other side of the bed as possible. Sex is one of the weapons used to confuse and confound because the sex was so good when it happened.

Intimacy, or difficulties and fears with intimacy, are a hallmark of the disorder.

These push pull cycles are a defense mechanism.  It's a way to alleviate those stressors.

Maybe its not so much a weapon?  It does hurt romantic relationships and can hurt partners though.

I second GreenMango.

The intimacy in my r/s wasn't too good, but I never felt my stbx used it as a kind of weapon.

Like many of you, things were exciting at the beginning of the rltp. Nonetheless, there were red flags... . my ex described herself as being "extremely sexual" during the first week of our rltp., that this was an important part of who she is and that sex in a rltp. is all about "who controls who" (talk about being on the nose, huh?).  She also mentioned getting "weird" after having sex w/ certain people. All of this right off the bat intimidated me. While we were sexual for the first weeks of the rltp., I told her I wanted to wait a bit to have "sex," since I need to be comfortable and trusting with my partners; basically I want emotional warmth w/ them (not a 1 night stand type of guy). This angered her, causing temper tantrums and silent treatment episodes throughout the night whenever we were being sexual and she demanded sex and I had told her I needed a bit of time to get comfortable and intimate w/ her. When we started having sex, it was at first fun, but quickly she was extremely controlling about everything (She was also controlling w/ all spheres of the rltp.); there were many "rules" that made it a tense affair, where I was always wondering what physical move I would make (even small ones) would cause a temper tantrum, silent treatment (she would lock herself in my bathroom mid-sexual encounter, leaving me feeling awful about myself); and she would even pose ultimatums that if sex didn't go a certain way (I always had to be primed whenever she wanted), the rltp. was over. Sex became a very tense thing w/ my ex; while I desired her physically, the act itself was fraught w/ pressure, anxiety, and uncertainty. In the end, we dwindled having sex and I enabled her to implement the following rules:

- I was banned from kissing her; she could only kiss me.

- a majority of nights we spooned naked and she would place my hands firmly on her breasts as she slept for hours, but would recoil and push away if I showed the slightest sign of an erection (this I can't believe I put up w/)... .

- when we were sexual, if at any moment my erection waned she would stop and lock herself in my bathroom, w/ real anger, yelling at me.

- constantly gave me speeches about how we lacked a "a primitive thing connection." Would get mad at me if I suggested that the problem was stress and anxiety caused by the rltp. dynamic of emotional reactivity and control and lack of communication.

- totally shut down and got angry, when I mentioned various things I thought would make sex playful (if one is comfortable w/ them of course)... . dirty talk, sex toys, fantasy role play, phone sex, sex w/ some clothes on (she didn't believe in that) being sexual just to be sensual (she always demanded that we always both orgasm at the same time!), general experimentation.           

- got very self-conscious when I would perform oral on her.

- usually I would have to hold her for hours each night (would get little sleep); even if I was uncomfortable, w/ no promise of physical activity to follow... .

- said our rltp. was doomed only because we had "different kissing styles"

Buzz - yikes ... . and I though my trip was rough. I feel for ya. You are definitely better off out of that situation. Sending healing your way.

I'm 10 months no contact and finally got to a "Keep It Simple" moment: "What a jerk she was and I was foolish to stay". I don't spend time now trying to figure out what made her tick. I have spent time looking at why I got and stayed in the r/s. That is where I can grow and move on.

Hi all

I first met my partner in early 2010, we were friends for a month or so first, and I felt confused even then, as to his insisting he wasn't looking for a relationship, only friendship when he seemed to want to hang out with me and enmesh himself in my life so much.

After hanging out with him often over a month, I found myself becoming attracted to him and falling in love with him slowly. There were red flags, but I couldn't help how I felt. In the end, I put it out there to him, that I was becoming attracted to him, and wondered how he felt about that. He rejected me, and so I said that I felt it best if we didn't see so much of each other, as I didn't want my feelings to get in the way of our friendship.

As soon as I told him I was going to pull back, he then said that he infact had more than feelings of friendship for me, when I asked him if he wanted more than friendship, he said he wasn't in to casual stuff, and preferred relationships instead.

So I asked if he wanted to be in a relationship with me, and he then tried to put me off him? Weird?

I said I really liked him, was falling for him, and why didn't he give it a shot? So he said Yes, he would really like to be my partner instead. He then insisted that we get STD tests before sleeping together, which I was very impressed by, (but also a little hurt too).

In the meantime, we started fooling around a little, and sleeping in my bed, (instead of him crashing on my sofa like he had been). He went all out to impress me sexually, I had to tell him to 'stop' too much pleasure.

So at the beginning, we were doing it several times per day, for the first two years, but I noticed that his over attention to my needs faded as he became more and more disenchanted with me, or angry and abusive to me.

If I was exhausted, or upset, he would instantly become nasty and distant, although I always had to be understanding if he didn't want to do anything. If I tried to initiate, it had to always be on his terms, so I stopped trying, as it always had to be when he wanted to.

I was compared to his previous serious partner, (from 10 years before that he hadn't gotten over yet). I was told she had a better body than me, was taller, blonde, and wilder in bed, like him. He said I wasn't wild enough for him, (yet he kept saying he was this real prude so that didn't make sense with who he said he was).

He often said that he only said that to hurt me, because I had hurt him first!

Over the last 15 months, that we have been long distance, his interest in sex and affection waned down to almost nothing by the last 3 months. It was often common after we made love, for him to turn on me yet again, (I likened intimacy with him to being with a scorpion or black widow spider, after they are intimate, they either sting you or eat you alive). This was always present from the very start, this nasty pushing me away, very heartbreaking and soul destroying.

He has lied to me about what he really gets up to when not with me, my instincts have always been strong, and all the signs have been there as well, not to mention the things he does and says at times.

He of course paints himself out to look like the victim if I have caught him out in any way, or I have insecurities or concerns, but if he had any about me, he would always go straight into attack/accuse mode.

So we have not made love now, since early June, and even then it was an effort for him to be affectionate at all, the push away has always been strong, despite him saying he needs to be with me, misses me so much and all the rest of the baloney.

It felt like 3.5 years of perceived revenge, (on his behalf to me) actually. His twisted thinking seems to give him justification to do and say the nastiest things, and I really cannot handle it anymore, such has been the level of emotional, verbal and physical violence. I also believe he has a serious substance abuse problem, and I strongly believe it is meth, because he doesn't eat much, doesn't sleep much, and is almost permanently aggressive, which cycles in and out every 3-4 days at a time. Usually he gets paid his unemployment money early hours of Tuesday mornings, he loses $60 immediately, (short term cash loans revolving payments) and is left with $170. By Thursday, he often has only $20 left, and I am supposed to believe it is spent on petrol, coffee and smokes in two days.

Hmmmm

So now, even though I am heartbroken, hurting, and know I likely will never meet someone I feel like this about ever again, I have to let him go, he is dangerous, unpredictable, and extremely toxic to be close to. So I need to accept this for myself and grieve him properly and go NC myself and stick to it for ever.

I highly doubt he will ever show up at my door and admit to needing help again, and be serious about seeking it, and if he did, it could all be a front, (and a fob off again).

Reading this brings up soo many bad memories... .

The control, the emotional abuse left me with many deep scars!  I cant tell you the # of excuses I would get.  I cant tell you how long we went without and then miraculously the minute she moved out, she's already f$%king the neighbor!  (no, seriously... . )

This is the part that we are left with.  The pieces that we are left with.  No reason, no logic... . Our r/s was nothing close to "puppies and kittens," but in my mind, marriage is about growing closer, not growing apart?  Am I wrong to think this way?

So back to the topic, this definitely left me with the feelings of "what's wrong with me?"  As you all know, that plays HELL on your mind!

The jealousy, the games, the push/pull... . all I can do is shake my head and wonder WHY did I let another person treat me like this?

I allowed her to recycle me numerous times after the initial split, and even looking back on that, I can conclude she knew what she was doing.  People say that it's the BPD, but I beg to differ on this one... . She knew what she held from me in the r/s, so when allowing her to recycle me, she wouldn't withhold.  That would hook me, then once she had me hooked, she would slowly pull away... .

This was a malicious game that she played with me, with my mind, and with my emotions... . this is why that r/s was like no other that I have ever had.  That is the damaging part, the part that stays with us for a very long time!

But, I see it for what it is.  I have connected the dots in the way that makes sense to me.  That's how I have experienced it.  She has left alot of pain in her path.  I cannot change that as all I can do is learn and grow from the pain.

MCC

MCC, well put.

I'm avin that!

My ex was very mean when it came to sex in the months leading up to the horrible break up. When I tried to initiate it or just plain say lets have some fun she would look at me and say is sex all you want from me and it made me feel really bad so I didn't ask her about sex anymore even though I wanted it so badly. Sigh

Dang its like you were describing my experience!

Sex was part of the hook. I'd say the entire hook really. Then used as a manipulative tool. A pacification device and means to an end. In the end we were still having sex but not sleeping together. I sensed very little on the spiritual plane with this girl. She seemed unable to connect emotionally although her feelings were always overstated. "love you babe". "Love you too sugar" "How much do you love me?" " I love you more than anyone else, that's why I'm with you" " I love you infinity times infinity to the power of infinity" "I love you more than that" poor girl!

Phase 1=The honeymoon

-He couldn't get enough,initiated each session of me BUT each 'intense' session of intimacy was followed by a 'don't get too close to me,you will get hurt warning'.If I pulled away,he would resent it.

Phase 2=Focus on self

-He wanted to know if I found him desirable enough and would say 'I'd do anything to make you happy'.Wanted to eat viagra as well which I forbid:).When we did sleep together,the focus seemed to be on 'my needs' but my satisfaction was merely meant to boos his flagging narcissistic ego.Used to say stuff like 'I will be going abroad forever(to limit the closeness)' and 'Will you leave me' after each intimacy session and these two things were said within seconds of each other.

Phase 3=The last intimacy session and what followed

-We came super close both emotionally and physically, his abandonment fears got triggered and he shut down for 3 months.

His words on the  supposed 'closure convo'

-I never felt anything for you.

-I never wanted to come close.

-Don't ever touch me,don't even hold my hand.It is wrong for me since I am no longer a kid.No touch at all.

Some projections from the 'closure convo'

-(After I said intimacy was not all I wanted,hope you know that)How could you say such a thing?I am feeling so bad you said this.You seriously said this?

-Will you stop  making me feel guilty for what happened(ref to intimacy here)?(I had not mentioned guilt)

I experienced all this as well and looking back,realize that it was my co-dependence,the desire to 'mother' him and wishful thinking that 'If I loved him deeper/more,things would change' which made me stay.Also,when I look back now,I realize that I was stubborn and was insisting on 'living in a dream' because facing facts and accepting things the way they were was not easy.

The 'idealize-devalue' cycles affected my health,work and caused mild depression besides shattering my self esteem.Even though I know now that he is sick and din't act the way he did on purpose,the words 'I never felt anything for you' and ':)on't ever touch me' still prey upon my mind multiple times a day.

It hurts.Still.Even though we are NC and I don't exist for him anymore,it hurts.

I am on the path of growing emotionally indifferent to him now.Its a long journey but I  have embanked upon it because there is no other way out of this pain.

It hurts.Still.Even though we are NC and I don't exist for him anymore,it hurts.

I am on the path of growing emotionally indifferent to him now.Its a long journey but I  have embanked upon it because there is no other way out of this pain.

I am right there with you on this one.  The best advise that I can offer, as it has seemed to work with me, is to use that pain / hurt as a fuel to push you forward... .try and channel all of that negative energy into something positive?

MCC

This happened to me too. I ignored SO MANY red flags. my exboss/exgf with BPD told me tons of stories about people she had slept with and how they eventually ended up hating her, but for some reason it didn't occur to me that she would end up giving me a reason to hate her too. I was blinded by love, I guess you could say.

Thanks so much MCC.

I have taken baby steps and am re-directing all that negative energy towards my personal emotional growth and toward doing some new types of work and things are getting better everyday.

Thanks again,appreciate the awesome advise.

2 years, and numerous recycles later, I am definitely a different person.  I look at the changes I have made in myself.  It was / still is, to some extent, one of the hardest times of my life.

But... .I have learned... .I have grown... .I continue to change on a daily basis... .I look for continuous improvement, as that is what keeps me going! 

It's important to remember that your experience DOES NOT define you... .it's how you respond is what shows your true character! 

MCC

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