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A little background on me is that about 2 months ago I got some tips on these boards of how to start enforcing boundaries... .

I set to work immediately and consistently because our situation at home had gotten so bad that frankly I didn't think that I had anything to lose.  My attempts to keep the peace weren't working.  I saw immediate effect with my uBPDh and other than a few small hiccups, we have had a wonderful couple of months.  He has been working, helping around the house, helping with our son, doing projects with me.  There was been a good pivotal shift in our dynamic.  I am starting to hang out with friends and get my life back!   :)

I knew in the back of my mind that a test was coming at some point in the future and it showed up in all its glory this morning.

He woke up in horrors.  I suspect that it was anxiety or nightmares, but almost immediately he started by calling me a name.  I was actually going to let it slide as long as he changed his tone/ tact immediately but he didn't.  He started calling me stupid and every name in the book because I had given him a glass of water (and apparently he already had a bottle of water in the bedroom).  I told him that if he continued like this then he was on his own to make breakfast and his lunch.  The response was he threw the glass of water at me.  It didn't hit me but it was designed to scare me.

I turned and walked outside.  He came out and said "don't you walk away from me when I am talking to you" and I told him "that I will not stand around and be called names and have things thrown at me while I make his breakfast and lunch.  If he wants to act that way then he is on his own."  

At this point he hurled every nasty thing that he could think of at me.  He told me that I am worse than his ex-wife (she's an evil NPD who has now been married 5x).  He told me that I am scum of the earth and that I am so weak that I won't help him just because he called me a name (no mention of the projectile water glass  lol).  He told me that if he had known that I was such a weak horrible dishonest person than he would never have married me.  He told me that he's had it with me and that I can look for a place to live because he is DONE with me.  He repeated over and over again that I need to move out.  (yeah... . for the record I am not going anywhere!)

He also said that he doesn't know who I have been talking to... . getting advise from... . but they are useless and I have no backbone (you guys are useless!   lol)

One side of me says "awesome.  this is an opportunity for progress... . to show him that even if he pushes... . being abusive won't get him what he wants."  I also have to say that if I hadn't enforced boundaries (based on the look in his eyes and his breathing) the situation could have been worse this morning.  I really don't want to be a domestic violence statistic -- which is why I finally decided that my life had to change.  The reality was that enforcing the boundary this morning may not have stopped the verbal issues but I am pretty sure it stopped anything that would have come after that.

A small little piece of me is still scared "what if he's serious... . what is he leaves... . what if, what if, what if"

I know that I did the right thing.  I just wanted to share because its still scary (emotionally).  I am annoyed that he thinks that I am so weak that someone is telling me how to behave.    I always knew that I needed to enforce boundaries... . its recently I realized why it wasn't working for us... . but its me that has to have the strength to make changes for me.

I truly love my husband with all my heart.  He is my rock, my best friend through thick and thin for 10 yrs.  

I'm just looking for a little positive reinforcement this morning because it was scary (in more way than one).

allibaba,

Glad you managed to dodge that flying water glass!  :)

Kudos to you for the progress you have made thus far.  It sounds like your husband has sensed the change in dynamics and is trying to restore things to the way they were before.  Now is the time when you must stand firm in enforcing your boundaries to make sure that your positive progress continues instead of reversing course.  Hang in there!   |iiii

Sounds like you did a great job allibaba!  Its tough to stand our ground at times, but well worth it for our own mental health.   

Thank you both... . exactly the positive reinforcement that I am looking for.  

Wrongturn1 you are correct... . my husband noticed a change immediately.  In fact, he has probably said 20x in different conversations that he is so happy that I am finding myself... . and that he feels like for the first time he is learning that he married an amazingly strong woman.  

He knows that something has changed and for whatever reason this morning he just wanted someone to take out his stress on... . when I wasn't willing to participate it made him MAD MAD MAD.

Thank you both.

I have plans to go over to a friend's house tomorrow night to bring a pizza and watch a movie.  My husband is supposed to put our toddler to bed and stay home with him so that I can have a night out.  Based on this morning... . I called another friend and made sure that she was available to babysit in the event that my husband bails on me.  That way I can still have my night out.   

 |iiii Yes indeed, you passed the test!

|iiii And keeping your plan for a fun separate evening, with contingencies to take care of your son is great for you!

And yes you are right--he wanted to take his feelings out on you and you didn't cooperate, which made him even more mad. He'll get over it.

How did the tirade end? Did you walk out of earshot, did he wind down, or did he leave to do something else?

 GK

Grey Kitty,

He wandered around the house for a little while making breakfast and packing his lunch. 

When I started doing the dishes (normal morning routine - don't like to leave the house dirty) he told me that I should be looking for a new place to live instead of doing the dishes.   lol

I sat outside for a little while and then realized that I needed to get on with my day.  For a little while I was worried that he might not go to work (self-destructive behavior trick that he's pulled before). 

At that point, I went in and told him that since he was still home, I was going for a run with the dogs (our son was still asleep.  mini man has an amazing ability to sleep through projectile water glasses outside his bedroom  *) )... . my husband high tailed to his truck about 30 seconds later to go to work. 

I still managed to get in my run and both the dogs and I were grateful for that

As an added bonus, since I found a backbone... . my dogs listen to me better too.  The book "Be the Pack Leader Comes to Mind."  Added bonus of implementing the lessons in your life... . your dogs become better trained.   |iiii

I'm so sorry. That does sound really scary. And try to keep reminding yourself that you know the truth and that you aren't a terrible person. And most likely he will regret saying those things and throwing the glass but he might not be able to admit it or really sympathize with how that must have made you feel. Just try to focus on keeping your support system strong and finding a happy place for yourself to help deal with the hurt feelings. Someone suggested that I make a list of happy things to do when I feel hurt by things my husband says/does when he's raging. Are there happy things you can do to make yourself feel better?

Thanks everyone.  It never feels good to get yelled at or told that you are scum of the earth, but it feels far better not to JUST TAKE IT.

My husband just tagged me in a photo on facebook.  Its a picture of him and our son from about a year ago.  Its pretty random but I am sure its his way of waving a white flag about this morning.  No telling what I will come home to, but honestly I am not worried about it.  If he's still in a funk then I will get some time to myself.  If not, then I will have my wonderful husband back.

I am learning that its ok to break a few eggs because I am making an amazing omelet 

alibaba, I am so glad to hear about your personal progress and the positive effects it's had on your r/s. I have to say, though, that the glass throwing and his refusal to leave & insistance that you leave bothers me... . a lot. Please be careful. Definitely stand your ground but be safe, too.

Good job . . . and under some pretty trying circumstances.  Your story is an inspiration, thanks for sharing it.  You may have experienced an extinction burst, its hard to say and time will tell. 

The throwing of the water glass at you makes me a little nervous for your safety.  It might be a good idea to formulate a safety plan, just in case.

|iiii 

That's exactly how I look at it.  Good for you 

Thank you!  I am pretty confident that it was an extinction burst.  He couldn't believe that I was standing up to him and it really upset him.  I guess the only way that I'll know is if the behavior becomes extinct lol

The throwing the glass sounds way more dramatic than it was... . it was far, far, far from me.  And it was a toss or gentle throw more than a real throw.  The glass didn't break.  I am not defending him.  It was wrong.  The action was clearly designed to scare me.  I just don't want any of you kind folks worrying about me unnecessarily.  :)

But thank you.  I have a plan.  I keep my phone, keys and wallet all in a safe spot for a quick exit.  I have places to go and funds that are all mine.  I don't do any of this because I am afraid of him... . just to make myself more comfortable if and when I have to leave!

Thanks for the clarification, alibaba. Sounds like you have thought things out very well. It'snice to read more confident and happy posts from you.  |iiii and lots of 

|iiii Glad to hear it. Sometimes I think the ability to leave is one of the most important things you can have--because when you know you can go, you know that you don't have to put up with everything. You know that it is worth it to stick to your boundaries, because they will protect you whatever choice he makes.

Thanks for sharing this.  I love the description of how you can step outside the situation to recognize what is happening and that it is indeed a test of your newfound backbone.  You handled this so well, and good for you for making a backup plan to ensure you get your night out!

A wise kitty actually helped suggest the safety plan a while back. Or maybe it was a wise waverider... . cant remember now but it was one of you! lol

So just an update... . husband came home late (obviously went out to dinner)... . hasn't spoken to me... .

I managed to do some yard work and mow the lawn.  Also got caught up on a book.  I went downstairs to kiss him on the forehead good night.  I always do this when he is mad.  And he has locked himself in the guest bedroom.  This means he is really mad.

Oh well.  That is his right.  Off to bed for me and thanks for the support today.

Well... . he's not speaking to me.  He woke up this morning and did all of his morning routine himself.  I think that he views my actions yesterday as abandoning him and now he's determined to show me that he is perfectly capable of functioning on his own (he is).  I also think that he has some fear of losing control of me. 

One thing that I forgot to mention yesterday is that when I enforced the boundary he said "If you think that you are going to dictate how things run around this house then you have another thing coming."  I responded "I just don't want to be called names and have things thrown at me."

(he's strong BPD, slight OCD, slight NPD, strong PTSD)  The NPD comes out when he is really stressed.

I think that its safe to say that I'll need to use my back-up plan for babysitting my son tonight so that I can get out.  I am grateful that I get to go to a friend's tonight and I am even more grateful that my other friend was willing to take my little boy on short notice.

I'm a little sad even though my husband not speaking to me for a few days is a totally normal (as in normal for him) reaction on his part.  Normally when I stand my ground, he calms down and comes back more quickly but not this time. 

I sent him a message yesterday afternoon which clearly let him know that I was thinking of him in a positive light (I try to do this regardless of whether I have been painted black or not).  I'll do this again this afternoon. 

So as I move through cycles of being strong and not as strong... . thanks for continuing to be my strength.  I know for sure that I did the right thing yesterday.   

You are doing great, stay strong.  You sound like you have done great work becoming less emotionally enmeshed with your husband.  This is good for you, and him (although he wouldn't agree with that right now).  Its a huge step to be able to live with his strong emotional reactions and not let it dictate your thoughts and actions.  Like you said - he has a right to his emotions.  It sounds like you are getting your life back.   :)     

At the risk of repeating myself... .

Thank you for the continued reassurance!

I have gone from completely enmeshed (probably 5 yrs ago) to doing work to detach starting in summer 2011.  I was pregnant and I realized for the sake of our son (even the impact on him before he was born) that I was going to have to get off the emotional roller coaster to give my son his best shot at a good life.  They say that babies can feel the emotions of their mother before they are born.  I must have done ok because my son is almost a year and a half and the kid is cool as a cucumber   lol  Its still hard to avoid enmeshment but it has definitely gotten easier with practice. 

I sent my husband a message today reminding him that I have plans tonight and asking if he was still available to stay home with our son tonight. (I know the answer will be either NO RESPONSE or NO but it is still appropriate to ask!)  I learned the hard way that it is my responsibility to carry on including him in my life (asking if he wants to do bedtime w our son, trying to solicit his input on him) even when he's in a funk. 

I also let him know that I missed having him around last night (I did)!

I think that its really important (for me) to remind him that I love him and that I like having him around.  For me, it removes me from the 'games.' 

Sometimes I wish that I had a normal situation where I get to have a normal argument and slam a few doors but at the end of the day... . I don't mind this path and I never felt good having arguments anyway!

Yes, you are doing the right thing.

Yes, he is continuing to test you.

I know you have it in you to pass the test!

I wish you had a normal situation too... . although I'd like to think that the non-violent approach (not slamming doors, etc.) works better there.

 Keep it up!

You have a lot of patience.  Good for you!

I wish I had more.  :)o you practice yoga or meditation?  How do you stay so grounded and caring/loving towards him when his behavior is what it is?  

You all have mentioned emotional enmeshment and I understand what it is theoretically.  But how do you avoid it and stay un-enmeshed?

Thanks.  I had sent him a message asking if he would still be able to stay home with our son or if I should make other arrangements (never mind that the back-up plan is already in place). I also said PS I missed you a lot last night.

Just got a response as follows:

"You go off and play... . the feeling was NOT mutual... . nor do I expect it to ever be given what you have become."

So what I have become is someone that does not want to be abused.  He's really taking this personally.  I can't tell whether his response means that he is planning on staying home with our little boy or not... . but I assume that it means he's ok with it.  My back-up will still be in place though.  She said I can even call her at the absolute last minute... . she'll stay home all night!

Boy, he's really not happy about the current turn of events.  I will take it as a sign that I am doing the right thing.  Turning the path of our relationship.  Crazy stuff!  There is no going back now Grey Kitty!

Oh and I also realize that his message is designed to pull me back into JADEing.  Not falling for it.

4now,

Naturally I am a pretty calm person.  My husband once told me that "I am more mellow than a damn hippy."  He didn't mean it as a complement.  He's high strung and I am not.

That being said, I used to have bad anxiety... . I have done both yoga and meditation in the past and they both helped... . but I not currently practicing.  I have learned not to enmesh with his feelings by telling myself over and over again that it is not about me.  The reason that I know its not about me is that all the different things that I tried never worked.  I also focus on the reasons why I love him in my own head.  I think about all the good things that he brings to my life and why he is a good person.  Then I tap into that to find the love and make sure that he knows that I love him.

I also find that walking our dogs and running and reading helps me stay balanced in the middle of the storm.

Wow, I'm amazed at how well you're handling this one.  I was going to ask how things went this morning since it seems that you have a lot of communication in the mornings, but you had already answered my question.  He will snap out of it, it's only a matter of time, but you're right - he doesn't know what to make of the "new you" and he's shutting down emotionally.  You are doing everything right and I applaud your efforts, I definitely see you as a good example of what should be done during these situations.  He's having a temper tantrum.  I hope you have fun at your friend's house tonight and hopefully he won't look for a way to sabotage that. 

Yoga and/or meditation sounds like a good idea given that you ARE being tested and stressed. Of course your fun night out is also a great way to take care of yourself!

I remember some directions I read recently


:) Of course I can't follow those instructions well enough myself :)

Not a bad idea at all... .

So I did go to my friend's house.  My husband did put our son to bed... .   lol the house looked like a bomb hae gone off!  We had a small issue before I left as he was asleep and I had to wake him up.  He got upset because I woke him too early (10 min before I left).  Regardless 8 got my night and I said thank you before I left.

When I got home he was asleep on the couch... . I took the dogs out ane came back in and he had locked himself back in th3 guest bedroom for the night.  Oh well another night w the bed to myself.  Good night and thank you again.

Just a quick update - Day 3 and my husband is still livid with me.  He slept locked in the guest bedroom again.  I think that he is really trying to prove to me that he can do things on his own (as in manage his life).  I never had any doubt.  Maybe this time is actually good for him.   

I stepped back this morning (in my own thoughts) and realized that - really - he is mad because I told him that he can't call me names and he can't throw things at me or in my vicinity.  This really isn't an unreasonable boundary that I have chosen to enforce (reassuring myself on my own self-doubt). 

So I am mostly checking in to let those following know that I am ok.  Waves of self doubt roll across regularly.  I try to bear in mind that back in March I enforced a boundary with my husband when I was visiting my dad (who has Alzheimer's).  My husband woke up in horrors and started calling and texting me to take it out on me.  Finally I sent him a message back saying that "I really needed to spend time with my dad and would call him that evening."  My husband blew his stack and wouldn't speak to me for 4-5 days.  After it subsided the following weeks were WONDERFUL. 

I was talking to one of my normal friends who is having some serious issues with her husband at the moment (basically busted him cheating last weekend).  She was like 'let me get this straight... .   You wake up at 4:30 am 5 to 7 days a week to make your husband breakfast and to pack his lunch even though you need to be at work at 8:30.'  I said yes.  She said 'do you realize that that is really above and beyond.'  I said that I didn't mind.  She said 'and your husband hasn't spoken to you in 3 days because you told him that you wouldn't continue to do him this favor while he treated you like dirt.'  I said yes.  She got this odd look on her face and said... . "girl you are doing the right thing.  stay strong."  She adores my husband (he's quite the character) so she's a great person to talk to.  Her simple breakdown of the situation really made sense.  Normal people do not wake up early to do something for their spouses and then turn around and willing subject them self to abuse.   :)

Interestingly enough one of my other big strengths is my uBPD mom!  (crazy)  She and I are closer than ever.  If I hadn't enforced boundaries with her (that was a painful 2 yrs)... . she wouldn't be here for me right now.  She shared that she is learning that OPINIONS are the root of all conflict.  She said that last summer, she learned to bite her tongue... . I complemented her on how far she has come personally in the last year.  I told her that I loved her and that I was amazed by how strong our relationship had become.  Hopefully I won't see the closeness backlash lol

There's no turning back now... . that is for sure!

Eventually simple, consistent and reasonable boundaries do actually gain you more respect. That starts with self respect, which can be contagious.

pwBPD fear being controlled but they can also admire people who are in control of themselves.

Thats why it is all about "I" & "me", rather than "you" when asserting control. Boundaries are about what "I" will tolerate rather than about what I insist "you "do.

"I will not be yelled at" rather than "You will not yell at me"

This is why I had so much trouble with boundaries until recently.  I kept saying to him "do not call me names"  "you will not threaten me."

Now I say "I will not stand here while you call me names" and "if you are going to threaten me then I am going to leave the house"

Grey Kitty told me that it was like giving him rules (and he's definitely a rule breaker) and then I was surprised when he didn't follow my rules.

No joke, on my uBPD H he has tattooed his favorite quote: "I am one of those not made for laws but for exceptions"

The tip about enforcing boundaries with I statements is something I need to write on my hand. When I'm all flustered and trying to take MY time out, I think sometimes I don't phrase it right. He has been really pushing back on timeouts during rages. When he's "normal" and I tell him about me taking timeouts, he understands and supports that. When he's raging, I'm being selfish and don't care about him. I need to stick to it.

You are such an inspiration to me. Reading your posts actually gave me chills today because you are so empowered. Thank you for posting. I hope I can follow your example!

 B.

Wow he sounds like mine too.   lol


One thing that Grey Kitty taught me is not to talk too much about boundaries up front.  No advance notice required and I believe that the advance notice makes it more difficult to enforce the boundary. 

So sorry if I have shown you this link before but here is the post where I got my first solid information on enforcing boundaries and how to do it.  It helped me SOO much.

The best thing I learned is to start simple.  Pick something that is causing issues over and over again.  Run the scenario past some of the experienced people on this board... . figure out what you are going to say... . its too hard to think on your feet when you are being attacked!

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=200881.0


You are too kind.  Thanks for encouraging me!  Its hard to stay steady in the storm but never in my life have I ever felt more like I was doing the right thing.  For me this is an opportunity.  I have so much more work to do in our relationship to become a better wife, but I cannot do it while this verbal abuse continues to hang over my head.  When I say that there is more work to do... . historically I have not had opinions in my marriage because it was too taxing.  Now I realize that I need to develop and learn to communicate effectively.  I am going to get through this bump in the road.

One last thought before I head into an interesting weekend... . I think that its time to give my husband appropriate space.  I have sent him a couple of select messages... . made it clear that I love him  AND NOW I need to back off.  He'll come back (or not) in his time.

:)

You need your space to regroup and stay grounded.

He needs his space to learn how to self soothe

Space is good, and often underrated. Dont't let guilt rob you of this valuable resource

|iiii

Hello all!

Just wanted to send a quick update.

He came out of his 'funk' yesterday morning after 3+ days.  It was a relief.  The funny thing is that in the past I have felt this sense of dread even after the storm passes wondering if I could continue the cycles and wondering if I was being untrue to myself (ignoring bad behavior).  This time is very different... . I feel that I have been honest with him and myself and I don't feel stuck in horrible cycle of dysfunctional behavior.  We carried on as if nothing happened.

In the afternoon, we were driving back from the store in the car and he said "if you don't stand for something, then you stand for nothing.  I am grateful that my wife stands for something."  He told me that he needs to be married to someone he respects that he respects me and my ability to stand up for myself.  Basically he told me that he approved of the boundary enforcement that he was initially so mad about.  That blew me away. 

The passion and honesty between the two of us for the last 48 hrs has been amazing and the communication was reaching a whole new level.  I did not feel as if he was just painting me white. It felt real... . and when he paid me a complement I gratefully took it believing that it was real.  I used to hate complements because I wanted to avoid the feeling of disappointment when I was knocked down later. 

The same friend that had me over on Thursday invited all three of us over for movies again last night (me, husband, and baby).  My husband went with me and I didn't fear him raging on the way home (as I have in past on the way from parties/ dinners etc)... . we all just had a nice night and we had a comfortable chatty ride home (3 months ago this would have not been possible). 

So I know that my boundaries will be tested again at some point... . but we have gotten past thing one :)  Thanks for carrying me bpdfamily... .

WOOHOO! So happy for you!  |iiii  

 |iiii allibaba!  This is so great to hear :)

Stay strong and positive

I should mention that in the last 48 hrs things are not just roses and rainbows... .   lol that is ok because I really don't trust roses and rainbows and it always made me nervous that thunder and lightening would be moving in shortly  :)

I have had plenty of opportunity to work on communication skills and have done some validation which stopped at least 1 significant meltdown which was under way (Sunday morning).  He did something / said something with force and our toddler picked up on his fear.  My toddler is one tough cookie but the tone of what my husband said coupled with the fact that mini man was out very late on Saturday night ----> a major baby meltdown and my normally easy going little boy was virtually inconsolable. 

My husband went through the roof and said the he didn't want to go to a stupid father's day brunch with us.  First I worked on calming son down... . then husband started what was going to turn into a rage.  I simply said "I can understand how the baby having a meltdown made you mad.  Almost anyone would have a hard time staying calm when a baby is screaming at the top of their lungs."  He turned to me and said don't patronize me with your bs.  Then about 30 seconds later he came out... . picked our son up... . kissed him and said... . sorry I didn't mean to upset you buddy.  Then he told me that he had hooked into our toddler's fear and that had scared him... . thus the slight beginnings of a rage.  He asked that I have a little patience with him because he was feeling worn down from his emotional week.

WOOHOO!  Your progress is very encouraging.  I don't think anyone here expects roses and rainbows, LOL, our lives just aren't that easy.  It's up, down, up, down... . but progress is huge and he is clearly seeing you in a new light.  I'm glad he was able to "self-soothe" and work through dealing with your boundaries, even if he didn't handle it great, he was able to figure out how to handle it after a few days, and that is a big deal.  I've seen progress as well since bringing up the BPD stuff and setting boundaries.  But my encouragement is mixed with thoughts of "when is the ___ gonna hit the fan", it's only a matter of time.  I will think of your progress when that happens.

PS - And even if there's no progress on their part, at least we are learning how to stand up for ourselves and take care of US first.  I think that's what is most important here. 

Allibaba,

I have been to the link you posted but I know I should just keep visiting there until I have it all memorized!

I'm so happy he came around. You go girl! Great boundary setting! It is amazing though how they respond when we stay calm with them and just reinforce love and understanding. Complete 180.

I understand your line "I really don't trust roses and rainbows" because we can't. It's nice when that happens for the time being but one of the best tips I learned on here was not to derive my happiness from my husband because that gives him the power to take it away. Trying to make me happy outside of him has been one of my main focuses lately and I'm learning that I can enjoy the "rainbows and roses" without being crushed by the "thunder and lightning" that sometimes come later. And when I'm not crushed, I can respond instead of react. So much learning... .

 B.

lol  Me too.  I keep going back to read it to remind myself of things that I need to do... . I re-read the links that Grey Kitty gave me.  The neat thing is that I am starting to realize that I have SOO much work to do to become a better wife and mother.  It may have started with boundaries and validation because that is definitely not where it stops!  Relationships are so complex anyway and I am glad that mine is evolving into something more than BPD cycle after BPD cycle!  Honestly my life before started to feel like a constant roller coaster ride.  I think that the next place that I need to start work is the communication tools.  Starting to communicate and share my needs.


I love this Bloomer.  That is amazing.  You are also sounding very empowered!   |iiii 

So, my very reliable daycare lady sent me a message this morning to say that she couldn't take my son today.  Unfortunately her son is sick with kidney failure (he's in his 20's) and there are lots of doctors appt etc.  I am the PRIMARY in our house despite the fact that I have more serious job than my husband.  Would you believe --- wait for it --- when he found out that our daycare lady couldn't take care of our son... . he came home from work early so that I could go into work.  I am so proud of him.  He wouldn't have done this before.  He also told me that he needs to start pulling more weight around the house.     Considering that he's now cooking and cleaning and doing other housework... .   other than taking our son more... . what else could he possibly do?   lol

I am really trying to "feel" empowered but it varies day-to-day :-)

That is awesome. My husband starting doing the weekly grocery shopping since he likes to be able to spend quality time with me when I'm not working or at play rehearsals. So that was a big step since before he felt he shouldn't have to do things during the day just because I was at work, and then he'd still be upset when I/we did the shopping on the weekends bc it wasn't quality time together. Finally, he has realized he can't have it all :-) He also volunteered to finish putting away the laundry from this weekend (whereas before if he put it into the washer/dryer, he expected me to fold it, etc.). Let's hope they can keep it up!

*high five* B.

I love hearing how your life is turning around so well, not fairy-tale good, but real world good!  |iiii You really have made things happen there!


Yes, there is always more to work on, isn't there!  lol I'm thinking a bit about that one--In some cases, I found myself not talking about my needs because I didn't think the person I was talking to was up to helping me with them. Perhaps I should give people more chances to rise to the occasion... . ?

I've also noticed that many times I don't even know what I want/need anyhow, which makes it really hard to ask for!

Yes otherwise you are cementing yourself in the role of the rescuer which is getting close to patronizing if you are not careful in their eyes, and the martyr in yours. That can bottle issues up, you need your turn too!


Is this because you are are so overwhelmed by their needs you have little time for self reflection?

Hmm... . not exactly. I guess I missed some important details when I wrote about it. I am fairly good at asking for things I need/want at a simple day-to-day level.

I feel like I'm falling down at the big picture level--My life right now involves lots of bouncing from place to place and situation to situation, roughly monthly, and I'm not very satisfied with that, but there are good reasons for each transition. I'm feeling a little stuck on the "What do I want to do when I grow up?" or "What do I want to do with the rest of my life?" type questions.

I find myself getting distracted by the (valid) need to make decisions, plans, and preparations for the next things I've got scheduled in my life (Starting in July, Mid-August, and Late August respectively)... . and not finding much time to look at the bigger picture. Especially because I also need to think about what comes in September!

When you mention getting lost in the needs of others... . well, I do let my wife take the lead on planning things for our lives/my life. A bit more than is healthy, I'm pretty sure. I know that I still seem to consult her more on stuff than I really need to. Well, I do have a month now where I should have more time to reflect. This is an opportunity for me.

Ok.  Here we go again.  :)idn't the last outburst happen on a Thursday?  :)oes anyone see timing patterns in their BPDs rages.  I do.  Untriggered - his rages happen once a week.  Even if he manages to hold it all together for more than a week then the explosion is greater.

So here's what happened:  Yesterday morning neither his alarm clock or my alarm clock went off.  I woke up 20 min later told him that it was late.  In 10 min he got dressed and got out of the house.  (amazing and basically so quick because I had prepped everything the night before) *giving myself pat on the back* He wouldn't have even been late to work.

He forgot something at the house so (since his work is on the way to my work) - I put it in his car on the way and left him a message.

During the day, there hadn't been any need to implement boundaries that morning and I didn't realize that anything was particularly wrong with him.  Sent him a message saying that I loved him and here were the reasons why.  I didn't get a response and he turned off his phone.  No biggie.  Fast forward to 8:30 at night... . he got home.  Normally he is home by 5:00 at the absolute latest.  I didn't cook him dinner because he wasn't here at dinner time.  No biggie.  I didn't mention him being late because frankly I don't mind and at this point I am beginning to realize that something is off.  He realizes that he forgot cigarettes while he was out and starts screaming that its my fault.  How can he remember things if he constantly has to keep track of what I am doing (huh).  He starts swearing and telling me that I am scum of the earth.  Oh crap... . boundary time.  I get up and walk out to the front porch.  

He comes after me and says that if I am going to walk about every time he's mad its the end of our marriage and that I can sleep outside.  He comes out about 5x and each time slams the door so hard that I am surprised that the door doesn't have damage.  My husband is a large man with scary strength.  He throws him remaining cigarette and hits me in the head.  He leaves the house locked and goes out.  While he is out I went and got the spare key.  Grabbed my phone, a book and my wallet and put it in the car and I go back to the shed.  We have a nice comfy atv and I lean back and read (occasionally running down to check my son's window to make sure he isn't awake - this kid has UNBELIEVABLE ability to sleep through his dad's rages).  About three hours pass and finally I go back in the house and sleep in the guest bedroom.  When husband wakes up this morning - I literally consider hiding in the closet.  I don't but I am SCARED.  He didn't come downstairs.

So here's the question.  1.) This is the worse situation we have had in a while.  Though I was never threatened physically I was terrified.  When is enough, enough.

2.)  One of the things that he said to me last night (when he was coming in and out of the front door) was that he only stays with me because he is trapped.  Now obviously he meant it in the moment but we really have a great connection.  He says that he literally hates having a wife and a family and it was the worst mistake of his life.  I really don't want to live wondering if I am just my husband's free meal ticket.  I want to communicate to him in a loving way that I don't want him as a prisoner (or for him to feel like a prisoner).  I haven't yet put a lot of the communication tools into practice so HELP.

Now we are lucky enough that our house and his 2 cars are paid for.  I have a good job which supports our cashflows and he earns minimum wage.  We live in Canada (even though I am American  lol) and all medical is pretty much covered.  He has rheumatoid and is on a drug which costs $2,000 per month but that is paid by my private insurance from work.  If we didn't have that coverage, the provincial drug plan would pay for it.

So I want to say the following once he calms down,

Husband, the other night you said that you stay with me because you feel financially trapped.

I am upset that you feel this way because I care about you and I know that your freedom is important.

If you want to leave this marriage I will agree to it.  You're prescriptions could all be covered by the provincial plan (I doubt he knows this).  I can pay you out the value of $ that you put into this house (its about half the value of the house and a couple hundred thousand dollars which is more than fair and would give him the freedom he wants.  I could borrow the money from my mom without any issues and my mom would benefit because she would get a good income on the money.  She doesn't feel that my husband treats me well and would frankly welcome the opportunity to get him out... . but she is smart enough not to share this openly with me).  But husband if you take me up on this, unfortunately that will be the end of our marriage (I wouldn't get myself into a position where he had leveraged our house and had money to blow and then I had to pay for it).

Thoughts?

The question is whether this is a  considered option for him or just an outburst of emotion and this was just an avenue to have a vent? If it was just a vent , whose cause has nothing to do with this, then I think logical countering is a waste of time as it is not the logistics he is concerned with only the emotion,. If you start talking logic then he will get angry as it is the feeling he is trying express. He has no interest in consequences and reality when having a tantrum, and to him that is you effectively trying to change the subject from the here and now emotion. In which case cut this bit:


I would only bring that stuff up if he was in that frame of mind in "normal" times.

Waverider,

I agree completely.  I wasn't proposing to drop a solution that allows him to leave our marriage in his lap this morning -- but rather I would wait until he calms down and ask him if he honestly feels trapped.  If he does, then here is the solution.  I don't want him here if he just feels like he needs to be here to survive.  I think that some part of him does feel trapped because I earn the majority of our money, but I don't think that he realizes that he could still have his medications covered even if I wasn't working my current job.  I will say that we have good interactions as parents and an excellent and consistent intimate life so I think that he's just spewing.  We made decisions together regularly and actively.  This doesn't seem like a situation where he's just hanging around for food on the table and a place to sleep.

One thing that I will say -- is that I cannot take the intensity of the rage last night on a regular basis.  I have no idea what triggered it.  I know now that he was out with my friend's husband and he (my friend's husband) has no morals and values and being around him makes my husband angry.  Maybe that was it?  Maybe it was the alarm not going off in the morning?  Maybe the new job is now starting to feel old and boring?  But I will say that I was scared last night and this morning and that is rare for me.  For about 5 seconds, I thought about hiding in the closet. 

I kept up with the consistent boundaries and this isn't the worst that I have seen from him.  Is it just another extinction burst?  Responding to me by walking out when he started to be verbally abusive? 

He finally responded to my note yesterday on the reasons why I appreciate him in my life with -- Wow... . how boring... . sounds like a teeny movie.

Basically he was belittling my effort to be kind and loving. 

I had hoped that firm and consistent boundaries would reduce this behavior but now I am wondering... .

Allibaba, just wanted to say, this shouldn't happen to you.  Just. Not. OK.

I think the hard part with boundaries is when they don't magically produce a change in the other person's behavior, and you have to lose something to hang onto them.  As someone (Sunflower Fields?) wrote on my current thread, you have to be brave to deal with someone else in a truly adult way, when that person is behaving in ways that contradict your values.  You have been brave but with this kind of behavior, it seems like the bravery demanded of you may increase.

For what it's worth ... . I had trouble with that with my exH who was verbally & eventually physically abusive.  One time I had had it -- I packed, took dogs to a kennel so I wouldn't have to worry about them, wrote a letter explaining I was going for a week to my parents & I'd talk to him at that point, because I couldn't continue as we were.  Left the note while my H was passed out drunk.  When he woke, he found it & came looking for me, & found me where I had to transfer from one bus to another.  He begged me to come back, said he'd stop drinking, I was right ... . eventually after a lot of resistance, I got in the car & went back home with him.  For two days he was resolved to fix everything.  On day three, he was talking about moderation management & drinking some, and my stomach sank.  On day 7, we were back as if nothing had ever happened.

We're friends now, 6 years after we split up, 10 years after this event.  The other day we were discussing that I really needed to just get on that second bus.  For me, for him, for us.  Those were his words: "you need to get on that bus" (he was analogizing to my current situation with my pwBPD).  I offer this to say that even if you draw some serious lines, it isn't necessarily the end, nor will he necessarily view it as such eventually.

I don't like thinking of you (& your kid) in a situation where what you just wrote about can happen.  Weirdly, I especially don't like you reading that response to your sweet note.

Your approach of not tolerating what should not be tolerated has been good.  Keep going 

Hi there Patientandclear -

You are correct.  None of last night was ok.  I don't feel ok about it. 

But I will say that even though I ended up the target of rage, locked out of the house, and finally sneaking around the guest bedroom... . at least I didn't just stand for it... . which is what I would have done 6 months ago.  I'm going to hold onto that little piece of hope right now... . even if it means that the relationship fails because I am enforcing boundaries.  Frankly the relationship was on the road to failure at breakneck speed 6 months ago so REALLY WHAT DO I HAVE TO LOSE?

Its easier with boundaries when you start to see the behavior change.  That gives encouragement.  Having to deal with 2 major rages in 2 weeks... . well that makes me wonder.  Ironically the rage didn't hurt the most.  What hurt was the nasty comment, the fact that he trashed the kitchen (right down to smearing peanut butter across the counter when he knew a plumber would be there at 7am, and the fact that he went into my car this morning and emptied the contents of my purse onto the front seat of the car.  Its the little things that really hurt.  They can throw things at you... . they can scream but its the dumping the purse contents (that took 30 seconds to clean up) that got me.  I didn't know about that when I first posted this morning.

So where am I at now.  I know that I cannot turn back.  I don't think that I could ever turn back.  That's good right?

I am a good person.  Even my husband when he's truly angry says that there is not one bad bone in my body.  He's right.  I don't have it in me.  But I am not, will not, and will never be a doormat ever again.  And if that means that my marriage to the man that I love with my whole heart and soul ends... . well that is the price that I will pay.  I cannot and will not lose myself to these disease.  AND MORE IMPORTANTLY I cannot and will not lose my son by not effectively protecting him against this disease (BPD).

Wow.  The cool and calm me is gone and the tears are flowing but I have never, ever in my life had more conviction than I have now. 

I don't know what I will do today but I am not going to contact him.  He can self-sooth his own butt.  I have to work and be a productive member of society and focus on me. 

Sure seems like he was triggered by the dependence of you.  Alarm clock failed to go off (strange?), had everything prepped the night before.  He rushes out and forgets something and you politely drop it off on the way to work.  Everything you do is showing how much you love him (and indirectly showing his inadequacy) and that is quite triggering for a pwBPD, to feel something they don't believe they deserve and have trouble accepting wholeheartedly.  You are the breadwinner in the family, you cater to his every need, and without you he's having trouble accepting what life would be like without you, and that you would eventually leave him (poor self-esteem issues).

Is he in counseling?  I would advise against giving him an out clause (questioning your commitment) yet, that'd be even more triggering because it seems like it's what he would expect any normal person to do, but you're not normal, you love him and want to make it work.  Confirm your commit to him, give him some time and space, encourage him to hang out with friends, continue to enforce your boundaries, and even discuss how this behavior could adversely affect your child.  Hopefully he learns to adapt but if you can't figure out a way to make the rages less frequent only then should you consider more drastic measures

pwBPD are very weak inside and will test the strength and character of the people they're closest to.  this is why boundary enforcement is crucial, once he's tested it enough then he will learn to respect you with real love.  you've made some progress with the first boundary, expect it and others to be tested in the weeks to come.  i would expect this to be drawn out over the next 3-6 months and then perhaps he'll start to accept the reality of what his life is, loving you and your child.

oh and if he needs to escape and isolate during a rage, he needs to be the one to leave.  you probably should consider enforcing a boundary around locking you out of the house.  you are the primary caretaker, have more sanity, and the more responsible parent, so it's not acceptable for him to deprive you of that right to care for your child. 

Yes this is an issue right now.  He's trying really hard to get his life back on track and to pull his own weight in the family... . even going so far as to clean the house and stay home from work to care for our son on Monday.  He also did all the laundry... . I think it drained him.


No he's not in counseling though I have asked and identified someone who specializes in BPD who is ready to take him.  Every time I suggested counseling he took it as invalidating.  I found a really excellent resource to support him... . and he knows that the guy is there.  I am not sure what else I can do.

All of the above is good, sound advice.  I think one of the triggers last night was that he was hanging out with this husband of my friends.  My friend is great... . salt of the earth.  The husband is bad news.  Cheats on his wife.  Does hard drugs.  For heaven's sake he drinks beer driving home from work.  I have pieced together this lovely picture based on his wife confiding in me and my husband confiding in me about this guy.  So my husband... . I know doesn't seem like a good guy but he believes in certain values... . you don't cheat on your wife, you come home at night, hard drugs and associating with anyone that does hard drugs are grounds for execution.   lol  Hanging out with the guy did his head in.  He has 3 sets of friends here and he (in the last week has learned that all 3 are no good).  2 sets because they do hard drugs, 1 set because they are honestly the most boring people I have ever met.  So he's alone in a new country after 3+ years and he's figuring out that the people he invested time in were a waste of time.  Thanks for helping me identify the trigger.[/quote]

All good advise.  I can handle 3-6 months.  Its my dad's 72 birthday today (summer solstice).  It will be easy date to remember and my birthday is the winter solstice.  Maybe today I set a timeline of a YEAR of working the lessons.  I still want to find a gentle and kind way to explain to my husband that he is not trapped.

Grad,

I don't remember seeing you before.  Your comments were really insightful.  Thank you.

I don't really post on the Staying board because I'm not speaking to my ex anymore.  We dated for about 1.5 months but I saw the issues before, during, and after we dated.  Started researching BPD to learn more about it because I suspected it before we dated but never really understood all that it was other than "abandonment issues" and the pain of the loss was something I never felt before.

I've been keeping track of your thread and even shed some tears which is extremely rare for me when you enforced a boundary and after 3 days he came around and confessed a deep feeling--respect.  Your boundary enforcement is starting gaining his respect, which I feel is the foundation of making any relationship work.  Unfortunately in the process it's going to cause a paradigm shift in his head of how he views you, and he will fight the change even harder until he becomes emotionally drained and learns nothing he does will stop it... . hopefully that's when acceptance should come in and he learns to how love in a healthy way.

That's my theory anyways, and I want to see your r/s unfold because it would validate my thoughts on the only way to make a r/s with BPD work... . through respect and commitment.

So basically I am your guinea pig.   lol

Well - yes - I don't mind at all.  Like I said there really is no going back for me now.  I have had a taste of standing up for myself in an overt (but loving) way and I can't go back to what I was doing before.

I have so much invested in my husband - time, money, emotional commitment.  I can't walk away... . (fight or flight was my old principal)

I got really emotional when my husband told me that he respected me for standing up to him too.  I didn't show it but my heart swelled for this relationship.  That is way this last episode was so devastating to me.

I am so sorry to hear that things have hit the fan again.  As soon as we start to relax a bit, there always seems to be something around the corner to trigger a rage.  Stay strong and focus on keeping yourself and your son protected.  I'm sure you will make it through this storm just like you have numerous times before, and I like your goal of 3-6 months of sticking to these boundaries and seeing if there is any change.  I think it's going to be a hard road with a lot of push-back and testing and temper tantrums.  But like you said, you've invested so much (so have I... . I completely get that) and you're just now starting these new techniques so it's worth giving it some time (I was in a pattern of fight or flight too, and still am from time to time - like yesterday lol).  He probably did respect you for standing up to him at first, but now the novelty has worn off and he's become childlike again, just like a child who secretly appreciates discipline from their parents but will fight them on it and throw a fit.  You will never be able to go back to the "former you" now that you've "seen the light", so to speak.  Things may never change in them even with boundaries, that's the scary part... . we aren't changing them, only protecting ourselves from their rages. 

I think that this is exactly what happened.  The novelty wore off.  Let's see if he can get used to the 'new me'!

I love this link.  Its about fear of being raged on.  I love it.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=119083.0 (ftp://https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=119083.0)

When he is not dysregulated, he likes the new you. When he is dysregulated, he wants the old you, as it gave him an easy outlet (you) to direct his negative feelings at.

I ran into this article a while ago, and the person involved doesn't sound like a pwBPD... . but it was still pretty inspirational what this woman did in response.

www.theweek.com/article/index/99512/the-last-word-he-said-he-was-leaving-she-ignored-him

Keep yourself safe, make sure your son is safe, take care of yourself... . and live in a way that you can look back at years from now and be proud of yourself. I am an optimist, and I believe your H will rise to the occasion. But even if he doesn't, I know you will!

Hang in there!   

P.S. I wouldn't say any of that stuff about how he can get un-trapped that you wrote earlier. He is as likely to see it as you trying to kick him out/abandon him as you trying to help him. If he wants to leave the marriage, don't make it easy on him... . unless you want to leave the marriage, in which case, do it yourself instead of nudging him that-a-way.

Wow, Alibaba. You did great!

Your shared victory reveals to me the possibility that it may be more than my 26-yo-sister with uBPD. Your episode takes me back to my childhood, with my Dad!

Just the thought of placing myself in your situation reminded me of my physiological and emotional responses to conflict. Thank you for presenting some new questions I need to sort out. :). wheeeeee

That is a secondary goal and in fact a hopeful byproduct, the real goal is firm and consistent boundaries would reduce the effect this behavior has on my life

That is something you can more directly focus on as you have more direct control of that. Even if the last option is end of RS.

You are experiencing an across the board extinction burst. it is a way of trying to flank your boundaries by broadening the conflict into other areas trying to find something you dont have a ready boundary for.

An analogy: You have locked the front door so he is trying to come through the window and if that doesn't work in desperation he may even attempt coming down the chimney. Thats what makes defending boundaries so hard you feel in a state of siege.

WOW MAN THIS IS DEEP.  How in the world did I miss this?  One of the most amazing things about my journey (a journey that started in earnest on April 29 of this year) is that it is constantly evolving.  You start to grasp one lesson and that lesson becomes easy and then something else that you have to work on automatically unfolds.

And yes, waverider, what I saw was an across the board extinction burst.  He was in pain.  Real pain over something that really hurts him (I can see that clearly this morning) and he desperately tried to lash out at me to feel better and I wasn't there... . and it made him incredibly angry.

Yoda Kitty, You and Waverider are both correct about not saying the stuff I had prepared about getting out of the marriage and I adored that article... . it sounded like something that I would do.  That woman really has it together even if the traditional Western world might view her as weak.

So the 'funk' lasted less than 24 hrs.  The only time I contacted him yesterday was to tell him the plan for dinner (he needed space) and the response back was that he had gone to pick up son early from daycare.  I got home and things were 'normal'.  Once toddler was put to bed, he attacked me (ha ha in a good way folks) in a warm and passionate way and he was gentle and kind and loving.  Normally coming out of a funk he is cold and distant and I maintain the warmth until he can climb on board.  Not last night... . he was different.  I got him out the door bright and early this morning.  He really didn't want to go to work and normally he would find an excuse to rage but not this morning... . this morning he found cool, calm criticism and I couldn't argue because he had valid points (though I disagree with 4:45am as being the correct time to discuss them!)... . I'll work on that issue another day.  He called back a few min after he left the house to say 'have a good day' which is his way of saying... . "I shouldn't have been acting the way I was before I left the house."

And now I am back to 'Trudging my road of Happy Destiny.'  Thanks to you all for carrying me again.

Grieving Sister I'm so pleased to have you on board.  Isn't it funny how you block things.  Frankly my first introduction to BPD was a therapist telling me that it was likely that my mom had it.  I spent YEARS working on the relationship and its was HARD... . and then I got things to a manageable place with her... . and I actually forgot that she had it (armchair psychologists please refrain from diagnosing lol).  I found bpdfamily because of serious issues with my husband... . heck I was on the site for 3 months before I remembered that my mom is likely uBPD.  How did I block that?  But having been through it with her gave me the internal strength to get off my butt and start working on the issues in my life with my husband. 

Thanks for being part of my journey.

Strangely, I think I had read this before.  I could so relate to the woman's ordeal.  Right down to the fourth of July.  I, sadly, no exaggeration, burst into tears when I read that her husband had finally come around.  I didn't have that response before when I read it.  But today, after seeing mini- and I mean mini- steps from my h in the right directions, I feel so upset that I haven't gotten that big turning of the corner.  Even sadder, I think my tears were affirmation of what I have known in my heart for a long time.  There will be no day like this for me.  Boo-hoo. :'(

Or maybe I am just being dramatic, I don't know.  It's all so hard and it wears you down, no doubt.