My newly found backbone is being tested this morning...

[allibaba]

No joke, on my uBPD H he has tattooed his favorite quote: "I am one of those not made for laws but for exceptions"

Wow he sounds like mine too.   

The tip about enforcing boundaries with I statements is something I need to write on my hand. When I'm all flustered and trying to take MY time out, I think sometimes I don't phrase it right. He has been really pushing back on timeouts during rages. When he's "normal" and I tell him about me taking timeouts, he understands and supports that. When he's raging, I'm being selfish and don't care about him. I need to stick to it.

One thing that Grey Kitty taught me is not to talk too much about boundaries up front.  No advance notice required and I believe that the advance notice makes it more difficult to enforce the boundary. 

So sorry if I have shown you this link before but here is the post where I got my first solid information on enforcing boundaries and how to do it.  It helped me SOO much.

The best thing I learned is to start simple.  Pick something that is causing issues over and over again.  Run the scenario past some of the experienced people on this board... . figure out what you are going to say... . its too hard to think on your feet when you are being attacked!

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=200881.0

You are such an inspiration to me. Reading your posts actually gave me chills today because you are so empowered. Thank you for posting. I hope I can follow your example!

 B.

You are too kind.  Thanks for encouraging me!  Its hard to stay steady in the storm but never in my life have I ever felt more like I was doing the right thing.  For me this is an opportunity.  I have so much more work to do in our relationship to become a better wife, but I cannot do it while this verbal abuse continues to hang over my head.  When I say that there is more work to do... . historically I have not had opinions in my marriage because it was too taxing.  Now I realize that I need to develop and learn to communicate effectively.  I am going to get through this bump in the road.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[allibaba]

One last thought before I head into an interesting weekend... . I think that its time to give my husband appropriate space.  I have sent him a couple of select messages... . made it clear that I love him  AND NOW I need to back off.  He'll come back (or not) in his time.

[waverider]

One last thought before I head into an interesting weekend... . I think that its time to give my husband appropriate space.  I have sent him a couple of select messages... . made it clear that I love him  AND NOW I need to back off.  He'll come back (or not) in his time.

You need your space to regroup and stay grounded.

He needs his space to learn how to self soothe

Space is good, and often underrated. Dont't let guilt rob you of this valuable resource

[allibaba]

Hello all!

Just wanted to send a quick update.

He came out of his 'funk' yesterday morning after 3+ days.  It was a relief.  The funny thing is that in the past I have felt this sense of dread even after the storm passes wondering if I could continue the cycles and wondering if I was being untrue to myself (ignoring bad behavior).  This time is very different... . I feel that I have been honest with him and myself and I don't feel stuck in horrible cycle of dysfunctional behavior.  We carried on as if nothing happened.

In the afternoon, we were driving back from the store in the car and he said "if you don't stand for something, then you stand for nothing.  I am grateful that my wife stands for something."  He told me that he needs to be married to someone he respects that he respects me and my ability to stand up for myself.  Basically he told me that he approved of the boundary enforcement that he was initially so mad about.  That blew me away. 

The passion and honesty between the two of us for the last 48 hrs has been amazing and the communication was reaching a whole new level.  I did not feel as if he was just painting me white. It felt real... . and when he paid me a complement I gratefully took it believing that it was real.  I used to hate complements because I wanted to avoid the feeling of disappointment when I was knocked down later. 

The same friend that had me over on Thursday invited all three of us over for movies again last night (me, husband, and baby).  My husband went with me and I didn't fear him raging on the way home (as I have in past on the way from parties/ dinners etc)... . we all just had a nice night and we had a comfortable chatty ride home (3 months ago this would have not been possible). 

So I know that my boundaries will be tested again at some point... . but we have gotten past thing one   Thanks for carrying me bpdfamily... .

[byasliver]

WOOHOO! So happy for you!   

[123Phoebe]

  allibaba!  This is so great to hear

Stay strong and positive

[allibaba]

I should mention that in the last 48 hrs things are not just roses and rainbows... .   that is ok because I really don't trust roses and rainbows and it always made me nervous that thunder and lightening would be moving in shortly 

I have had plenty of opportunity to work on communication skills and have done some validation which stopped at least 1 significant meltdown which was under way (Sunday morning).  He did something / said something with force and our toddler picked up on his fear.  My toddler is one tough cookie but the tone of what my husband said coupled with the fact that mini man was out very late on Saturday night ----> a major baby meltdown and my normally easy going little boy was virtually inconsolable. 

My husband went through the roof and said the he didn't want to go to a stupid father's day brunch with us.  First I worked on calming son down... . then husband started what was going to turn into a rage.  I simply said "I can understand how the baby having a meltdown made you mad.  Almost anyone would have a hard time staying calm when a baby is screaming at the top of their lungs."  He turned to me and said don't patronize me with your bs.  Then about 30 seconds later he came out... . picked our son up... . kissed him and said... . sorry I didn't mean to upset you buddy.  Then he told me that he had hooked into our toddler's fear and that had scared him... . thus the slight beginnings of a rage.  He asked that I have a little patience with him because he was feeling worn down from his emotional week.

[sjm7411]

WOOHOO!  Your progress is very encouraging.  I don't think anyone here expects roses and rainbows, LOL, our lives just aren't that easy.  It's up, down, up, down... . but progress is huge and he is clearly seeing you in a new light.  I'm glad he was able to "self-soothe" and work through dealing with your boundaries, even if he didn't handle it great, he was able to figure out how to handle it after a few days, and that is a big deal.  I've seen progress as well since bringing up the BPD stuff and setting boundaries.  But my encouragement is mixed with thoughts of "when is the ___ gonna hit the fan", it's only a matter of time.  I will think of your progress when that happens.

[sjm7411]

PS - And even if there's no progress on their part, at least we are learning how to stand up for ourselves and take care of US first.  I think that's what is most important here. 

[Bloomer]

Allibaba,

I have been to the link you posted but I know I should just keep visiting there until I have it all memorized!

I'm so happy he came around. You go girl! Great boundary setting! It is amazing though how they respond when we stay calm with them and just reinforce love and understanding. Complete 180.

I understand your line "I really don't trust roses and rainbows" because we can't. It's nice when that happens for the time being but one of the best tips I learned on here was not to derive my happiness from my husband because that gives him the power to take it away. Trying to make me happy outside of him has been one of my main focuses lately and I'm learning that I can enjoy the "rainbows and roses" without being crushed by the "thunder and lightning" that sometimes come later. And when I'm not crushed, I can respond instead of react. So much learning... .

 B.

[allibaba]

I have been to the link you posted but I know I should just keep visiting there until I have it all memorized!

  Me too.  I keep going back to read it to remind myself of things that I need to do... . I re-read the links that Grey Kitty gave me.  The neat thing is that I am starting to realize that I have SOO much work to do to become a better wife and mother.  It may have started with boundaries and validation because that is definitely not where it stops!  Relationships are so complex anyway and I am glad that mine is evolving into something more than BPD cycle after BPD cycle!  Honestly my life before started to feel like a constant roller coaster ride.  I think that the next place that I need to start work is the communication tools.  Starting to communicate and share my needs.

One of the best tips I learned on here was not to derive my happiness from my husband because that gives him the power to take it away. Trying to make me happy outside of him has been one of my main focuses lately and I'm learning that I can enjoy the "rainbows and roses" without being crushed by the "thunder and lightning" that sometimes come later. And when I'm not crushed, I can respond instead of react. So much learning... .

I love this Bloomer.  That is amazing.  You are also sounding very empowered!    

So, my very reliable daycare lady sent me a message this morning to say that she couldn't take my son today.  Unfortunately her son is sick with kidney failure (he's in his 20's) and there are lots of doctors appt etc.  I am the PRIMARY in our house despite the fact that I have more serious job than my husband.  Would you believe --- wait for it --- when he found out that our daycare lady couldn't take care of our son... . he came home from work early so that I could go into work.  I am so proud of him.  He wouldn't have done this before.  He also told me that he needs to start pulling more weight around the house.     Considering that he's now cooking and cleaning and doing other housework... .   other than taking our son more... . what else could he possibly do?   

[Bloomer]

I love this Bloomer.  That is amazing.  You are also sounding very empowered!    

So, my very reliable daycare lady sent me a message this morning to say that she couldn't take my son today.  Unfortunately her son is sick with kidney failure (he's in his 20's) and there are lots of doctors appt etc.  I am the PRIMARY in our house despite the fact that I have more serious job than my husband.  Would you believe --- wait for it --- when he found out that our daycare lady couldn't take care of our son... . he came home from work early so that I could go into work.  I am so proud of him.  He wouldn't have done this before.  He also told me that he needs to start pulling more weight around the house.     Considering that he's now cooking and cleaning and doing other housework... .   other than taking our son more... . what else could he possibly do?   

I am really trying to "feel" empowered but it varies day-to-day :-)

That is awesome. My husband starting doing the weekly grocery shopping since he likes to be able to spend quality time with me when I'm not working or at play rehearsals. So that was a big step since before he felt he shouldn't have to do things during the day just because I was at work, and then he'd still be upset when I/we did the shopping on the weekends bc it wasn't quality time together. Finally, he has realized he can't have it all :-) He also volunteered to finish putting away the laundry from this weekend (whereas before if he put it into the washer/dryer, he expected me to fold it, etc.). Let's hope they can keep it up!

*high five* B.

[Grey Kitty]

I love hearing how your life is turning around so well, not fairy-tale good, but real world good!  You really have made things happen there!

I think that the next place that I need to start work is the communication tools.  Starting to communicate and share my needs.

Yes, there is always more to work on, isn't there!  I'm thinking a bit about that one--In some cases, I found myself not talking about my needs because I didn't think the person I was talking to was up to helping me with them. Perhaps I should give people more chances to rise to the occasion... . ?

I've also noticed that many times I don't even know what I want/need anyhow, which makes it really hard to ask for!

[waverider]

Yes, there is always more to work on, isn't there!  I'm thinking a bit about that one--In some cases, I found myself not talking about my needs because I didn't think the person I was talking to was up to helping me with them. Perhaps I should give people more chances to rise to the occasion... . ?

Yes otherwise you are cementing yourself in the role of the rescuer which is getting close to patronizing if you are not careful in their eyes, and the martyr in yours. That can bottle issues up, you need your turn too!

I've also noticed that many times I don't even know what I want/need anyhow, which makes it really hard to ask for!

Is this because you are are so overwhelmed by their needs you have little time for self reflection?

[Grey Kitty]

Is this because you are are so overwhelmed by their needs you have little time for self reflection?

Hmm... . not exactly. I guess I missed some important details when I wrote about it. I am fairly good at asking for things I need/want at a simple day-to-day level.

I feel like I'm falling down at the big picture level--My life right now involves lots of bouncing from place to place and situation to situation, roughly monthly, and I'm not very satisfied with that, but there are good reasons for each transition. I'm feeling a little stuck on the "What do I want to do when I grow up?" or "What do I want to do with the rest of my life?" type questions.

I find myself getting distracted by the (valid) need to make decisions, plans, and preparations for the next things I've got scheduled in my life (Starting in July, Mid-August, and Late August respectively)... . and not finding much time to look at the bigger picture. Especially because I also need to think about what comes in September!

When you mention getting lost in the needs of others... . well, I do let my wife take the lead on planning things for our lives/my life. A bit more than is healthy, I'm pretty sure. I know that I still seem to consult her more on stuff than I really need to. Well, I do have a month now where I should have more time to reflect. This is an opportunity for me.

[allibaba]

Ok.  Here we go again.  :)idn't the last outburst happen on a Thursday?  :)oes anyone see timing patterns in their BPDs rages.  I do.  Untriggered - his rages happen once a week.  Even if he manages to hold it all together for more than a week then the explosion is greater.

So here's what happened:  Yesterday morning neither his alarm clock or my alarm clock went off.  I woke up 20 min later told him that it was late.  In 10 min he got dressed and got out of the house.  (amazing and basically so quick because I had prepped everything the night before) *giving myself pat on the back* He wouldn't have even been late to work.

He forgot something at the house so (since his work is on the way to my work) - I put it in his car on the way and left him a message.

During the day, there hadn't been any need to implement boundaries that morning and I didn't realize that anything was particularly wrong with him.  Sent him a message saying that I loved him and here were the reasons why.  I didn't get a response and he turned off his phone.  No biggie.  Fast forward to 8:30 at night... . he got home.  Normally he is home by 5:00 at the absolute latest.  I didn't cook him dinner because he wasn't here at dinner time.  No biggie.  I didn't mention him being late because frankly I don't mind and at this point I am beginning to realize that something is off.  He realizes that he forgot cigarettes while he was out and starts screaming that its my fault.  How can he remember things if he constantly has to keep track of what I am doing (huh).  He starts swearing and telling me that I am scum of the earth.  Oh crap... . boundary time.  I get up and walk out to the front porch.  

He comes after me and says that if I am going to walk about every time he's mad its the end of our marriage and that I can sleep outside.  He comes out about 5x and each time slams the door so hard that I am surprised that the door doesn't have damage.  My husband is a large man with scary strength.  He throws him remaining cigarette and hits me in the head.  He leaves the house locked and goes out.  While he is out I went and got the spare key.  Grabbed my phone, a book and my wallet and put it in the car and I go back to the shed.  We have a nice comfy atv and I lean back and read (occasionally running down to check my son's window to make sure he isn't awake - this kid has UNBELIEVABLE ability to sleep through his dad's rages).  About three hours pass and finally I go back in the house and sleep in the guest bedroom.  When husband wakes up this morning - I literally consider hiding in the closet.  I don't but I am SCARED.  He didn't come downstairs.

So here's the question.  1.) This is the worse situation we have had in a while.  Though I was never threatened physically I was terrified.  When is enough, enough.

2.)  One of the things that he said to me last night (when he was coming in and out of the front door) was that he only stays with me because he is trapped.  Now obviously he meant it in the moment but we really have a great connection.  He says that he literally hates having a wife and a family and it was the worst mistake of his life.  I really don't want to live wondering if I am just my husband's free meal ticket.  I want to communicate to him in a loving way that I don't want him as a prisoner (or for him to feel like a prisoner).  I haven't yet put a lot of the communication tools into practice so HELP.

Now we are lucky enough that our house and his 2 cars are paid for.  I have a good job which supports our cashflows and he earns minimum wage.  We live in Canada (even though I am American  ) and all medical is pretty much covered.  He has rheumatoid and is on a drug which costs $2,000 per month but that is paid by my private insurance from work.  If we didn't have that coverage, the provincial drug plan would pay for it.

So I want to say the following once he calms down,

Husband, the other night you said that you stay with me because you feel financially trapped.

I am upset that you feel this way because I care about you and I know that your freedom is important.

If you want to leave this marriage I will agree to it.  You're prescriptions could all be covered by the provincial plan (I doubt he knows this).  I can pay you out the value of $ that you put into this house (its about half the value of the house and a couple hundred thousand dollars which is more than fair and would give him the freedom he wants.  I could borrow the money from my mom without any issues and my mom would benefit because she would get a good income on the money.  She doesn't feel that my husband treats me well and would frankly welcome the opportunity to get him out... . but she is smart enough not to share this openly with me).  But husband if you take me up on this, unfortunately that will be the end of our marriage (I wouldn't get myself into a position where he had leveraged our house and had money to blow and then I had to pay for it).

Thoughts?

[waverider]

The question is whether this is a  considered option for him or just an outburst of emotion and this was just an avenue to have a vent? If it was just a vent , whose cause has nothing to do with this, then I think logical countering is a waste of time as it is not the logistics he is concerned with only the emotion,. If you start talking logic then he will get angry as it is the feeling he is trying express. He has no interest in consequences and reality when having a tantrum, and to him that is you effectively trying to change the subject from the here and now emotion. In which case cut this bit:

If you want to leave this marriage I will agree to it.  You're prescriptions could all be covered by the provincial plan (I doubt he knows this).  I can pay you out the value of $ that you put into this house (its about half the value of the house and a couple hundred thousand dollars which is more than fair and would give him the freedom he wants.  I could borrow the money from my mom without any issues and my mom would benefit because she would get a good income on the money.  She doesn't feel that my husband treats me well and would frankly welcome the opportunity to get him out... . but she is smart enough not to share this openly with me).  But husband if you take me up on this, unfortunately that will be the end of our marriage (I wouldn't get myself into a position where he had leveraged our house and had money to blow and then I had to pay for it).

I would only bring that stuff up if he was in that frame of mind in "normal" times.

[allibaba]

Waverider,

I agree completely.  I wasn't proposing to drop a solution that allows him to leave our marriage in his lap this morning -- but rather I would wait until he calms down and ask him if he honestly feels trapped.  If he does, then here is the solution.  I don't want him here if he just feels like he needs to be here to survive.  I think that some part of him does feel trapped because I earn the majority of our money, but I don't think that he realizes that he could still have his medications covered even if I wasn't working my current job.  I will say that we have good interactions as parents and an excellent and consistent intimate life so I think that he's just spewing.  We made decisions together regularly and actively.  This doesn't seem like a situation where he's just hanging around for food on the table and a place to sleep.

One thing that I will say -- is that I cannot take the intensity of the rage last night on a regular basis.  I have no idea what triggered it.  I know now that he was out with my friend's husband and he (my friend's husband) has no morals and values and being around him makes my husband angry.  Maybe that was it?  Maybe it was the alarm not going off in the morning?  Maybe the new job is now starting to feel old and boring?  But I will say that I was scared last night and this morning and that is rare for me.  For about 5 seconds, I thought about hiding in the closet. 

I kept up with the consistent boundaries and this isn't the worst that I have seen from him.  Is it just another extinction burst?  Responding to me by walking out when he started to be verbally abusive? 

He finally responded to my note yesterday on the reasons why I appreciate him in my life with -- Wow... . how boring... . sounds like a teeny movie.

Basically he was belittling my effort to be kind and loving. 

I had hoped that firm and consistent boundaries would reduce this behavior but now I am wondering... .

[patientandclear]

One thing that I will say -- is that I cannot take the intensity of the rage last night on a regular basis.  I have no idea what triggered it.  I know now that he was out with my friend's husband and he (my friend's husband) has no morals and values and being around him makes my husband angry.  Maybe that was it?  Maybe it was the alarm not going off in the morning?  Maybe the new job is now starting to feel old and boring?  But I will say that I was scared last night and this morning and that is rare for me.  For about 5 seconds, I thought about hiding in the closet. 

***

He finally responded to my note yesterday on the reasons why I appreciate him in my life with -- Wow... . how boring... . sounds like a teeny movie.

Basically he was belittling my effort to be kind and loving. 

Allibaba, just wanted to say, this shouldn't happen to you.  Just. Not. OK.

I think the hard part with boundaries is when they don't magically produce a change in the other person's behavior, and you have to lose something to hang onto them.  As someone (Sunflower Fields?) wrote on my current thread, you have to be brave to deal with someone else in a truly adult way, when that person is behaving in ways that contradict your values.  You have been brave but with this kind of behavior, it seems like the bravery demanded of you may increase.

For what it's worth ... . I had trouble with that with my exH who was verbally & eventually physically abusive.  One time I had had it -- I packed, took dogs to a kennel so I wouldn't have to worry about them, wrote a letter explaining I was going for a week to my parents & I'd talk to him at that point, because I couldn't continue as we were.  Left the note while my H was passed out drunk.  When he woke, he found it & came looking for me, & found me where I had to transfer from one bus to another.  He begged me to come back, said he'd stop drinking, I was right ... . eventually after a lot of resistance, I got in the car & went back home with him.  For two days he was resolved to fix everything.  On day three, he was talking about moderation management & drinking some, and my stomach sank.  On day 7, we were back as if nothing had ever happened.

We're friends now, 6 years after we split up, 10 years after this event.  The other day we were discussing that I really needed to just get on that second bus.  For me, for him, for us.  Those were his words: "you need to get on that bus" (he was analogizing to my current situation with my pwBPD).  I offer this to say that even if you draw some serious lines, it isn't necessarily the end, nor will he necessarily view it as such eventually.

I don't like thinking of you (& your kid) in a situation where what you just wrote about can happen.  Weirdly, I especially don't like you reading that response to your sweet note.

Your approach of not tolerating what should not be tolerated has been good.  Keep going 

[allibaba]

Hi there Patientandclear -

You are correct.  None of last night was ok.  I don't feel ok about it. 

But I will say that even though I ended up the target of rage, locked out of the house, and finally sneaking around the guest bedroom... . at least I didn't just stand for it... . which is what I would have done 6 months ago.  I'm going to hold onto that little piece of hope right now... . even if it means that the relationship fails because I am enforcing boundaries.  Frankly the relationship was on the road to failure at breakneck speed 6 months ago so REALLY WHAT DO I HAVE TO LOSE?

Its easier with boundaries when you start to see the behavior change.  That gives encouragement.  Having to deal with 2 major rages in 2 weeks... . well that makes me wonder.  Ironically the rage didn't hurt the most.  What hurt was the nasty comment, the fact that he trashed the kitchen (right down to smearing peanut butter across the counter when he knew a plumber would be there at 7am, and the fact that he went into my car this morning and emptied the contents of my purse onto the front seat of the car.  Its the little things that really hurt.  They can throw things at you... . they can scream but its the dumping the purse contents (that took 30 seconds to clean up) that got me.  I didn't know about that when I first posted this morning.

So where am I at now.  I know that I cannot turn back.  I don't think that I could ever turn back.  That's good right?

I am a good person.  Even my husband when he's truly angry says that there is not one bad bone in my body.  He's right.  I don't have it in me.  But I am not, will not, and will never be a doormat ever again.  And if that means that my marriage to the man that I love with my whole heart and soul ends... . well that is the price that I will pay.  I cannot and will not lose myself to these disease.  AND MORE IMPORTANTLY I cannot and will not lose my son by not effectively protecting him against this disease (BPD).

Wow.  The cool and calm me is gone and the tears are flowing but I have never, ever in my life had more conviction than I have now. 

I don't know what I will do today but I am not going to contact him.  He can self-sooth his own butt.  I have to work and be a productive member of society and focus on me. 

[grad]

One thing that I will say -- is that I cannot take the intensity of the rage last night on a regular basis.  I have no idea what triggered it.

Sure seems like he was triggered by the dependence of you.  Alarm clock failed to go off (strange?), had everything prepped the night before.  He rushes out and forgets something and you politely drop it off on the way to work.  Everything you do is showing how much you love him (and indirectly showing his inadequacy) and that is quite triggering for a pwBPD, to feel something they don't believe they deserve and have trouble accepting wholeheartedly.  You are the breadwinner in the family, you cater to his every need, and without you he's having trouble accepting what life would be like without you, and that you would eventually leave him (poor self-esteem issues).

Is he in counseling?  I would advise against giving him an out clause (questioning your commitment) yet, that'd be even more triggering because it seems like it's what he would expect any normal person to do, but you're not normal, you love him and want to make it work.  Confirm your commit to him, give him some time and space, encourage him to hang out with friends, continue to enforce your boundaries, and even discuss how this behavior could adversely affect your child.  Hopefully he learns to adapt but if you can't figure out a way to make the rages less frequent only then should you consider more drastic measures

pwBPD are very weak inside and will test the strength and character of the people they're closest to.  this is why boundary enforcement is crucial, once he's tested it enough then he will learn to respect you with real love.  you've made some progress with the first boundary, expect it and others to be tested in the weeks to come.  i would expect this to be drawn out over the next 3-6 months and then perhaps he'll start to accept the reality of what his life is, loving you and your child.

oh and if he needs to escape and isolate during a rage, he needs to be the one to leave.  you probably should consider enforcing a boundary around locking you out of the house.  you are the primary caretaker, have more sanity, and the more responsible parent, so it's not acceptable for him to deprive you of that right to care for your child. 

[allibaba]

Sure seems like he was triggered by the dependence of you.  

Yes this is an issue right now.  He's trying really hard to get his life back on track and to pull his own weight in the family... . even going so far as to clean the house and stay home from work to care for our son on Monday.  He also did all the laundry... . I think it drained him.

Is he in counseling?  I would advise against giving him an out clause (questioning your commitment) yet, that'd be even more triggering because it seems like it's what he would expect any normal person to do, but you're not normal, you love him and want to make it work.  Confirm your commit to him, give him some time and space, encourage him to hang out with friends, continue to enforce your boundaries, and even discuss how this behavior could adversely affect your child.  Hopefully he learns to adapt but if you can't figure out a way to make the rages less frequent only then should you consider more drastic measures

No he's not in counseling though I have asked and identified someone who specializes in BPD who is ready to take him.  Every time I suggested counseling he took it as invalidating.  I found a really excellent resource to support him... . and he knows that the guy is there.  I am not sure what else I can do.

All of the above is good, sound advice.  I think one of the triggers last night was that he was hanging out with this husband of my friends.  My friend is great... . salt of the earth.  The husband is bad news.  Cheats on his wife.  Does hard drugs.  For heaven's sake he drinks beer driving home from work.  I have pieced together this lovely picture based on his wife confiding in me and my husband confiding in me about this guy.  So my husband... . I know doesn't seem like a good guy but he believes in certain values... . you don't cheat on your wife, you come home at night, hard drugs and associating with anyone that does hard drugs are grounds for execution.     Hanging out with the guy did his head in.  He has 3 sets of friends here and he (in the last week has learned that all 3 are no good).  2 sets because they do hard drugs, 1 set because they are honestly the most boring people I have ever met.  So he's alone in a new country after 3+ years and he's figuring out that the people he invested time in were a waste of time.  Thanks for helping me identify the trigger.[/quote]

i would expect this to be drawn out over the next 3-6 months and then perhaps he'll start to accept the reality of what his life is, loving you and your child.

oh and if he needs to escape and isolate during a rage, he needs to be the one to leave.  you probably should consider enforcing a boundary around locking you out of the house.  you are the primary caretaker, have more sanity, and the more responsible parent, so it's not acceptable for him to deprive you of that right to care for your child. 

All good advise.  I can handle 3-6 months.  Its my dad's 72 birthday today (summer solstice).  It will be easy date to remember and my birthday is the winter solstice.  Maybe today I set a timeline of a YEAR of working the lessons.  I still want to find a gentle and kind way to explain to my husband that he is not trapped.

[allibaba]

Grad,

I don't remember seeing you before.  Your comments were really insightful.  Thank you.

[grad]

Grad,

I don't remember seeing you before.  Your comments were really insightful.  Thank you.

I don't really post on the Staying board because I'm not speaking to my ex anymore.  We dated for about 1.5 months but I saw the issues before, during, and after we dated.  Started researching BPD to learn more about it because I suspected it before we dated but never really understood all that it was other than "abandonment issues" and the pain of the loss was something I never felt before.

I've been keeping track of your thread and even shed some tears which is extremely rare for me when you enforced a boundary and after 3 days he came around and confessed a deep feeling--respect.  Your boundary enforcement is starting gaining his respect, which I feel is the foundation of making any relationship work.  Unfortunately in the process it's going to cause a paradigm shift in his head of how he views you, and he will fight the change even harder until he becomes emotionally drained and learns nothing he does will stop it... . hopefully that's when acceptance should come in and he learns to how love in a healthy way.

That's my theory anyways, and I want to see your r/s unfold because it would validate my thoughts on the only way to make a r/s with BPD work... . through respect and commitment.

[allibaba]

So basically I am your guinea pig.   

Well - yes - I don't mind at all.  Like I said there really is no going back for me now.  I have had a taste of standing up for myself in an overt (but loving) way and I can't go back to what I was doing before.

I have so much invested in my husband - time, money, emotional commitment.  I can't walk away... . (fight or flight was my old principal)

I got really emotional when my husband told me that he respected me for standing up to him too.  I didn't show it but my heart swelled for this relationship.  That is way this last episode was so devastating to me.

[sjm7411]

I am so sorry to hear that things have hit the fan again.  As soon as we start to relax a bit, there always seems to be something around the corner to trigger a rage.  Stay strong and focus on keeping yourself and your son protected.  I'm sure you will make it through this storm just like you have numerous times before, and I like your goal of 3-6 months of sticking to these boundaries and seeing if there is any change.  I think it's going to be a hard road with a lot of push-back and testing and temper tantrums.  But like you said, you've invested so much (so have I... . I completely get that) and you're just now starting these new techniques so it's worth giving it some time (I was in a pattern of fight or flight too, and still am from time to time - like yesterday ).  He probably did respect you for standing up to him at first, but now the novelty has worn off and he's become childlike again, just like a child who secretly appreciates discipline from their parents but will fight them on it and throw a fit.  You will never be able to go back to the "former you" now that you've "seen the light", so to speak.  Things may never change in them even with boundaries, that's the scary part... . we aren't changing them, only protecting ourselves from their rages. 

[allibaba]

I think that this is exactly what happened.  The novelty wore off.  Let's see if he can get used to the 'new me'!

I love this link.  Its about fear of being raged on.  I love it.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=119083.0

[Grey Kitty]

When he is not dysregulated, he likes the new you. When he is dysregulated, he wants the old you, as it gave him an easy outlet (you) to direct his negative feelings at.

I ran into this article a while ago, and the person involved doesn't sound like a pwBPD... . but it was still pretty inspirational what this woman did in response.

www.theweek.com/article/index/99512/the-last-word-he-said-he-was-leaving-she-ignored-him

Keep yourself safe, make sure your son is safe, take care of yourself... . and live in a way that you can look back at years from now and be proud of yourself. I am an optimist, and I believe your H will rise to the occasion. But even if he doesn't, I know you will!

Hang in there!   

P.S. I wouldn't say any of that stuff about how he can get un-trapped that you wrote earlier. He is as likely to see it as you trying to kick him out/abandon him as you trying to help him. If he wants to leave the marriage, don't make it easy on him... . unless you want to leave the marriage, in which case, do it yourself instead of nudging him that-a-way.

[Grieving_Sister]

Wow, Alibaba. You did great!

Your shared victory reveals to me the possibility that it may be more than my 26-yo-sister with uBPD. Your episode takes me back to my childhood, with my Dad!

Just the thought of placing myself in your situation reminded me of my physiological and emotional responses to conflict. Thank you for presenting some new questions I need to sort out. . wheeeeee

[waverider]

I had hoped that firm and consistent boundaries would reduce this behavior but now I am wondering... .

That is a secondary goal and in fact a hopeful byproduct, the real goal is firm and consistent boundaries would reduce the effect this behavior has on my life

That is something you can more directly focus on as you have more direct control of that. Even if the last option is end of RS.

You are experiencing an across the board extinction burst. it is a way of trying to flank your boundaries by broadening the conflict into other areas trying to find something you dont have a ready boundary for.

An analogy: You have locked the front door so he is trying to come through the window and if that doesn't work in desperation he may even attempt coming down the chimney. Thats what makes defending boundaries so hard you feel in a state of siege.