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My behavior in this relationship was so less than healthy. Right from the start I made huge mistakes. I had given up on love. I chose poorly in a partner. I wasn't looking for a long term relationship or even any commitment. I wanted a one night stand or just a casual relationship mainly for sex. So it began. I accepted a partner who was way younger. Sixteen years. I met her in a bar. I chose a partner with a drug problem. Meth. I didn't care. It wasn't supposed to last. I rescued her. I let her stay with me when she got into a fight with her dad. I should have told her to work it out and sent her home. I told her that I would take care of her. She had no job. I should have let her figure it out for herself. I accepted her disrespect. She spit on me and I got upset but I let her stay. I should have ended it right then and there. I caught her stealing my things. It should have ended there. I accepted her physical abuse. When I asked her to leave and she refused I should have involved the law. I made every mistake that I possibly could have. I didn't believe her at first when she told me she was mentally ill. I am suffering because I made unhealthy choices and I accept full responsibility for myself. It lasted for many years. Many times I was physically,mentally,emotionally and financially abused. I was also manipulated sexually. I allowed all of this. I allowed myself to be dragged down to the point of desperation. I allowed myself to be taken almost to the point of no return.

I'm not saying any of the observations you made/insights you've had about your part in this dance aren't valid. They are. All of them. 100%. No question about it.

But it isn't ALL on you, my friend. It DOES take two to do this particular dance, and just because she has a disorder doesn't mean she didn't know the steps and wasn't dancin' that thing for all it was worth.

There's a boundary when it comes to taking responsibilty that a lot of us - myself VERY much included - tend not to see or to ignore/dismiss entirely in situations like this.

That boundary is: you take responsibility JUST for your stuff ... . you let HER take responsibility for HERS ... . and if you're not sure whose is whose, you EACH take half.

It can be really compelling - especially when we're hurt, confused, uncertain, insecure, and afraid - to simply take full responsibility for what happened - or to take as much as we can rationally justify taking anyway - because if we tell ourselves we allowed/made it happen, we also get to tell ourself we can fix it/make it better.

It's okay, I think, to play the critical parent - heap all the blame/responsibility for this mess on yourself for a while - and feel really stupid, weak, reckless, irresponsible, petty, selfish, etc., etc. about all the ways you've acted to make this horrible awful thing happen - because I do think, by doing so, you WILL eventually end up feeling like you can change things/make them better for yourself - when maybe that isn't so easy to do if you have to give half that responsibility/power to change to someone who's so recently proven themselves to be so irretractably disordered, untrustworthy, unpredictable, unreliable, and completely unable to take any responsibilty for anything they've done at all.

Hang in there, man. It DOES get better.

Big hug ... . TC

Personal inventory is about you - it's not about your partner. 

This is where we ask the hard questions about what it is about you that perhaps found you in the relationship, and what work do you need to do in order to progress.

You use the phrase 'should have' a few times.  Easier to say in hindsight.  What do you want to change about yourself where you can be certain that you won't find yourself in this situation in the future?

TC... Thank you for the comment. This is my inventory not hers. I am focusing soley on myself. I am not looking at her at all. My healing depends on me and me alone. Her part is her business and I do hope that she gets the help she needs. I am detaching. Attempting to put everything about her out of my life. It's hard. I must come to not desire her at all if I am to stop suffering. I am getting better but it's slow. I am too aware that I wasn't in this alone and I feel that this awareness is a huge barrier for me. I need to let go of my anger. Let go of her and get ahold of myself. In taking full responsibility for myself I am not taking full responsibility for the relationship only full responsibility for my part in it. She has to take responsibility for her part but that may not happen. I will heal. I am hurt but I will heal and hopefully I will be stronger than before. I have a ways to go yet. Peace.

Want2know... Thank you for responding to my post. In my inventory I am looking for the mistakes that I made in an effort to change my behaviour. I have made it this far without committing suicide. I have a chance. My life continues for now. My condition is still horrible most of the time but I can see that life goes on. The pain is lessening and I can almost see a future for myself. If life it is then I want to be happy. I might have the opportunity to be with someone that really does love me just for me.

Are you saying you gave up on finding a peer and took someone that was needy and desperate?

Why did you feel you couldn't find a peer or wait longer?  

You moved a meth addict in your house?  That never goes well.  You blocked your availability to others.  

Go back to the start.  There was a reason. What was it?

Want2know I gave up. I didn't care about love anymore. I didn't know much about drug addiction. She said she wanted to quit. She didn't even try to quit. I couldn't quit for her. I know a lot about addiction now. More than I ever wanted to. I knew she was mentally ill. She told me. She was on meds when I met her. Honestly... I didn't want a relationship with her at first. Through out the entire relationship I wanted her to get out. She wouldn't leave. She wanted total control of everything. My rescuing and her victim were a match made in hell.

You gave up on caring about love before you met her or after?

I gave up before I met her. I was fresh out of a relationship with a woman that I thought I was going to marry. It became unhealthy and I left her. That's when I gave up.

Many of us entered into relationships with our pwBPD when we were coming off a bad relationship - I did.  I had just ended a 12 year marriage, was feeling totally vulnerable and overlooked a lot of red flags because I just didn't want to be on my own, at the time.

What happened in your prior relationship with the woman you thought you were going to marry that became unhealthy?

I couldn't deal with her prescription pain pill habit. She was a migraine sufferer and she would routinely over medicate. She would get sick and make herself loopy on her meds. It made me sick to be around her. She had all of the addiction traits including the anger. She slapped me and I packed up and moved out.

Perfidy, are you saying you left one person because she over medicated her migraines and sought refuge with a meth addict?

What pain medication did your fiancee' abuse?  Here is a list of migrame meds:

   Selective serotonin receptor (5-HT1) agonists (triptans)

   Ergot alkaloids

   Analgesics

   Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs)

   Combination products

   Antiemetics

Prophylactic medications include the following:

   Antiepileptic drugs

   Beta blockers

   Tricyclic antidepressants

   Calcium channel blockers

   Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs)

   NSAIDs

   Serotonin antagonists

   Botulinum toxin

Feronal. When it stopped working or she started having withdrawal she would have to go and get injected with Demerol. At least once a month.

She always ran out. Never made her meds last and used more than prescribed. She also was on antidepressants because of her divorce she went to a T and he prescribed them for her. She is on them to this day. We still talk but don't date or see each other. I can tell just by talking to her what she's on and how many she's taken. She uses that stuff when she is stressed. I talked to her on the phone last night. She was looped on feranol. Probably at least four of them. Slurred words,poor cognition.

Was this under a doctors oversight?


Going back to this - if the Feronal thing was troubling, why get involved with a meth addict.  I would think that this is the last place you would turn.  But you did and getting you hands on why will help.

It will probably take some soul searching.  Questions like these are hard to answer and often the first answer we latch onto isn't the one we ultimately believe.

Was this simply a rebound relationship?  Rather than grieve and recover and clear the field, did you reach for a quick "feel good" or something comfortable? 

Or was this a fountain of youth relationship?  These are tough breakups.

Something else?

Skip it was going to be A casual relationship. I fell for the wounded bird/victim behaviour. Once she got her hooks in me she just would not leave. Then the idealization was over the top from both sides. Mirroring in the extreme. She really had no identity of her own. No job,no hobbies,no real friends.

Are you saying you were weaker than her.  She manipulated you?  You were helpless to her addicts charms?

Perfidy, I'd headbutt you now, but I have a Styrofoam head and it dents easily and it stains.

Personal inventory is hard, man.  It's very personal.

She had no hooks.  A beer bottle has no hooks.  A slot machine has no hooks.

We have weaknesses.  We have dysfunctional coping.  We have deep wounds ourselves that we have to uncover and then face.

Let me ask, if you had a do-over, and you were a pillar of strength, a mans man, top of your game, what would you have done different starting with the gf getting loopy on Feronal?  Can you draw that map?

Skip I think the first attraction is always the same. Visual. I can't tell if anyone is an addict by looking at them. When I found out that the one was a meth user I didn't even understand about how bad that stuff is. She said she wanted to quit! I thought it was just that simple. If you want to quit then you just quit. Not even like that. I thought it was a recreational thing for her. No way. I have no experience of my own to compare it to. I haven't ever been a drug addict so I don't understand it from their point of view. I know more about it now than I ever wanted to. I know my choice in her wasn't healthy. We actually got along pretty good and only a few problems in the first few years. I won't lie... It was an ego boost for my to have a way younger girlfriend. I wanted to marry her but as long as she was using no way. I wanted her to build structure in her life and get off the dope. Never happened. She started getting worse. Anger. Hitting. Slapping. Throwing stuff. I stood up for myself once after she threw something at me and she just went into hysterics. She wouldn't leave. I so wanted her to leave. She just kept telling me that if I called the cops I would get thrown out of my own home. It would blow over. Then happen again. I was afraid of her. When she would wake me up I would wake up defensive thinking she was attacking me. She was tiny. Who would ever believe that the big man would be afraid of the tiny little girl and that she would ever hurt him. I know it was screwed up but I really felt helpless. I didn't want to get a restraining order but maybe I should have. I cared about her. I didn't want that for us. I know my codependency has everything in the world to do with this. Abuse is normal from people that love me. I really hate it. I wish it were different.

Perfidy,

I have been reading this entire post and have learned a lot about you ex's and how you "saved" them.

This sentence from you is very much victim mentality - so how can you focus on saving yourself?  What would it look like to make different choices in your own life starting today?

Abuse does not have to be normal - when you are aware - you can make different choices... . you seem to be getting aware, How can you use this personal inventory board to learn how to make different choices?  Are you willing to do that?

SB I am willing to do anything that will restore my happiness. I have been way too miserable for way too long.

Ok - time to rebuild your sense of self perhaps?

You posted some pretty big abuse from childhood on another thread - that takes big courage... . be proud of yourself that you showed courage.  Have you shared all of this with a therapist to begin the deep healing?

Yes I have

Would you like to elaborate?

What does your T say needs to happen to rebuild your own sense of self worth?

What is your therapy plan?

Well... . He made a shocked expression when I told him about the time I pulled a gun on my dad. Then he tried to talk me into medication. I fired him. I told him that I was having a natural reaction to what I have been through and that it would get better without drugs. I was kind of insulted by his reaction and I didn't go to anyone else because of his reaction making me think that my problems are worse than they really are. I felt like he thought I was dangerous. I'm not. I haven't hurt myself or anybody else. Troubled a bit sure. Not violent. Depressed.

How are you treating the depression?  Have you considered CBT?

I have been treating the depression by treating my self to as many feel good experiences as I can. The other night I went to a street dance with some friends. Live music pretty girls. The band was awesome. I actually smiled and laughed. I play my guitar almost every day. That makes me feel good. I love music.

Every time I share my past with someone about my childhood and the relationship with my dad I get the distinct feeling that I'm being viewed as a violent weirdo. I'm not. I was just a kid trying to survive. I hate violence. I wish it all never happened.

Perfidy - you say you are willing to do anything


Skip asked you directly - have you considered CBT?

Just because one therapist doesn't work does not mean the process doesn't.  I am sure you wish it never happened, but it did.  And when you can learn to heal the emotions that came with that horrible experience, you might get some of that happiness you long for.

I ask again, are you willing to do anything including find a better therapist who specializes in a more intensive therapy?

I have other resources. I have access to behavioral health services when I am not in the field. When I work I'm in remote locations with not much access to any kinds of facilities. I am going on time off and I know where to go for help with this. I seriously can't keep feeling like this and I know I would have an easier time with the right kind of help. I have been in contact with a good counselor over the phone too. She is kind enough to understand my situation with work and has given me a lot of help finding the good in myself.

I do feel a certain amount of stigma because of how dysfunctional my childhood was. I know it wasn't my fault that my father was like that. I feel like because what I experienced when I have told other people how it was, that it changes their view of me to being seriously disturbed. I'm actually a very responsible person. I am kind and caring and I am liked by most people I know and work with. My family loves me and I love them. As a rule I have great interpersonal relationships. Rarely argue. I believe that I have the ability to reason through any problems that I have with other people and not go into anger. I used to tell my ex when she would rage that I didn't have any anger of my own and I didn't want hers. I really tried with that girl but it was no use. I have the ability to tolerate most unpleasant conditions that others can't or won't. This depression will go away. I will be happy again. I can feel it subsiding. I had indirect contact with my ex through a friend the other day and it really knocked me back. It took a little while but I feel better now. It isn't quite so constant.

CBT sounds interesting. I would be willing to go forward with that. I will ask about it as soon as I can.

There is a theory that people's strengths are also their weaknesses.  The ability to tolerate unpleasant conditions can get you through some tough times, which is a strength, however, it can also be a weakness, as it can also open yourself up to allowing abuse.

This is really hard, Perfidy.  Many of us have those traits, and it can stem from childhood.

You have had some really good realizations here.  It would be great to discuss what we are talking about today with a good counselor that you trust.  We'd love to hear how that goes.  You sound motivated, and look to be really trying.  Hang in there.  We are here with you.  

I just got off the phone with my counselor. She is a certified clinician. She is sending me a CBT workbook. She said it works best in a group setting but not mandatory. She also directed me to some websites that offer help with CBT. It's cool because I can call her anytime. She said at least I'm starting to look for solutions now. She was excited and said  that I am starting to sound better.

Perfidy, when I began taking inventory - it was a mind field. I had little knowledge on what to work on first. Self worth seemed the perfect place to start.

Strength is perfected in times of weakness – and sometimes we find strength where we once thought none existed. Its time to rebuild and the best knowledge of ourselves comes from realizing what we have endured from loved ones.

Strength and self knowledge builds happiness - because we can find comfort in knowing our own values and how to use boundaries to protect them.

Through your ordeals Perfidy you have gained strength without knowing it. Because of our past and own dysfunctional coping we choose not to use those strengths because we have been taught not to trust them. Start to have a think about how we attract people in our lives and who we choose to love – for me – I chose men who were very weak – emotionally and spiritually. They were very reminiscent of my father (likely BPD, alcoholic). I thought it gave me strength however I was very misguided - I was reliving a self fulfilling prophecy which only reinforced my perceived weaknesses and did little to build my strength.

Since my break up I have met and dated some men. The one I felt most vulnerable with (hence really liked) was a great guy who was very clear about taking things slow (great boundaries), he didn’t bring up past relationships, he didn’t lament in the past, he was confident yet not at all arrogant/egotistical, I felt protected and nurtured, I felt I could be open with my own vulnerabilities and he would simply listen and not judge, he had no trouble talking about his failings as a strength, he never once tried to save me/rescue me/fix me, he noticed the small things, there was no high drama or passive aggressive.


I learnt to trust love again because in my healing I learnt to trust myself. Many men in my life have been abusers including family members – I have gained so much strength in digging deep and finding what I don’t want in a man – those abusers would be it.

A mans strength for me is not governed by his ability to save or rescue me, and as cliché as it sounds it’s his ability to walk beside me. It’s his ability to allow vulnerabilities, actively work towards the relationship as well as himself.

Continue to work on you Perfidy – do that and you will not be attracted to dysfunction – you will be highly allergic. Strong boundaries and solid limits in man are highly attractive – knowing what a man wants is paramount for me.  

Try to work towards not normalizing abuse – had we have worked towards these strengths listed above we would never have entered this relationship to begin with. We would have simply said with strength and conviction “No Thanks. It was nice to meet you”. Period.

Find your strengths and build on them - CBT will help with this - CBT helps us untwist our thinking.

|iiii  Excellent!

As Clearmind says: "Through your ordeals Perfidy you have gained strength without knowing it."

Clearmind the guy that took it slow and had great boundaries how did that work out? Are you still with him or did something cause that to fail too? I don't mean to be overly personal but I just want to know if being healthy about relationships is enough to hold them together. Does it take more?

Perfidy, it took me quite a while to trust and also get use to a man with boundaries. When I got over my own ego all is working out just fine. Its stable, there is trust, we talk openly - its really wonderful. I admire and respect him enormously for having the strength to set boundaries and limits.

It's then up to me to respect them. At first we all find respecting boundaries hard because we see it as shaming - another persons boundaries have nothing to do with us - what it does show is how much he respects himself - for that I love him. It shows strength of character - something I have never experienced from another man.

I can now safely say that in order for a relationship to be healthy both partners need to actively work on themselves in order for the relationship to benefit. I took from my ex just as much as he took from me - it was a dysfunctional mix of battles of wills, poor coping skills and both vieing for control (the upper hand).

So is being healthy about relationships enough to hold them together? It depends - I believe it is as long as each person in the partnership is willing, able and continues to work on themselves. Does it take more? I don't think so - working on ourselves is hard work, finding strength is hard work and continuing to grow is hard work. If I continue to do that I am also buidling a very strong bond with my partner - based on admiration and respect and trust. And its because I worked on myself and built strength that he sees those same qualities in me.

What we do need to do is choose wisely! Never date someone for their potential or what you want to see but rather what they show you. Eyes and ears must be open - there is more to a good bond than instant and sexual attraction - usually when we choose partners based on that critieria its because we don't feel that in ourselves.

Unhealthy attracts unhealthy - unhealthy relationships are very instable and built on very shakey foundations. Who wants that? I sure don't.

I know it can feel hard carrying that kind of shame... . many of us here have had pretty screwed up childhoods, so we understand.

A good T can help you navigate those emotions of shame and help you as you develop a healthier sense of self worth.

You are worth having good things happen Perfidy - putting your own emotional health first is the key to finding a lasting, healthy relationship. 

Keep up the good work.

Peace,

SB

Wow... I feel my mind beginning to unlock. It's like I was frozen into a state of panic and giving minimized thought to everything. Very debilitating. I have no idea how I have been functioning. So strange all of this. Seriously... I am so disoriented from this. I used to be so strong... Not soft at all. What hit me? Was it all from the relationship? I know for sure that triggered my depression but wow... She really wasn't all that!

Clearmind does a pwBPD have the same destructive qualities to people that have strong boundaries? I want to know because I really did have good boundaries when I met her. I was able to walk away when I knew I had to. I took it slow with them and respected myself. It was so different with her. Could it be possible that something supernatural was involved? I don't even believe in supernatural but this was entirely out of character for me. It was the second longest relationship in my life. The longest for her. Soo weird. She had very little respect for me ever. Like I was thriving on disrespect. That really is not me. Anybody else would have been dumped so fast they wouldn't know what happened. I am not afraid to cut them loose. But this one was the most screwed up one of all and I PRIZED her... Seriously? A meth head with a destroyed face and rotten teeth? I don't know how I'm ever going to do a deep enough personal inventory to own that one.

Could be the neuroscience of sex.  Have you ever read The Chemistry Between Us: Love, Sex, and the Science of Attraction?  When you have ongoing sex with someone, there are instinctual bonds that form.  www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=mind-reviews-the-chemistry-between-us

A few resources that may help... .

This is a quick read on values and boundaries - pay close attention to the values part.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

CBT is forward looking - not about interrogating the past. The best book on CBT is by David Burns.  There are clinical studies that show healing started from just reading the book - seriously.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79768.0

We also have MoodGym - very cool.

https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles11.htm

Have you taken this test?  It a great tool - we have members measuring themselves periodically to track prgress:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79772.0

Skip thank you for pointing out these resources for me. I read on CBT today. Positive thinking for sure and making the good better. Improvement. Staying in the now while looking for ways to improve in the future. Changing the way I am thinking. I am looking forward to feeling better. These last few days have been a turning point for me. I feel like I'm finally getting unstuck. Thank you again.

I do agree with Skip - sex with my ex was incessant from the first date - it completely skewed reality. Without the dazzle of magical thinking and rampant sex, we were completely incompatible - for a time I got what I so desperately needed - validation via being idealized. There was very little talk about how we related as a couple.

hit__

Boundaries protect our “territory”, our self within (our personal values).

E.g.  A personal value may be trustworthiness. To build trust takes time. To jump into bed with someone on the first date is probably not protecting your personal values and is potentially busting your own boundary.

So would a person who is protecting their personal value of trustworthiness have sex with a date on a first date without knowing that person OR would they resist and take some time to get to know them first?

hit_

Its good you walked away when you knew you needed to – however – we did involved in the first instance. It’s likely you relished being idealized just as much as your ex did.  Its no longer about her Perfidy – or what she looked like or didn’t look like – its about your choices and what you got from this relationship – sex, validation…the lot! Dig deep.

We all learn our relationship skills from our care givers.