BPDFamily.com

It's been almost 8 weeks now since my uBPD ex?bf raged and broke up.  To recap, we were together for a wonderful 2+ years-this was the first time I had ever seen his anger.  I just can not accept that we might be over and keep getting these very strong waves of trying to connect with him.  I send brief, non-emotional "thinking about you" texts, ask him if he would like to have coffee - they go ignored.  Although when I asked about coffee last Friday, he at least responded with "I have an appointment this morning."

So this morning, I sent another.  Well, two.  First, asking him if he would meet me for coffee some time over the next few days.  A couple of hours later, asking him to help me interpret the silence-telling him that there were things left unsaid, telling him that I would respect a wish of NC, telling him that I cared and that I wish I had fully understood what he was dealing with before everything blew up-asking him to meet with me... etc.  Nothing.

I don't want to push him farther away, but want to keep a lifeline out there.  We are in our mid-fifties, I can't believe after all I've been through in my life-how devastating this break up is... . if that's what it is for sure.  He lives so close to me-really really hard.  Would love your thoughts... .

I never in my wildest imagination would have thought we would go almost two months without speaking.  You would also think it should be getting easier... .

Hello there  

I can tell that you really want to talk to him and I think that it's very reasonable that you should given your 2 year history. Does he have a pattern of going somewhere at a certain time? Could you just "bump" into him? I know that lots of people advise giving them space until they come round but you really sound like you need to talk to him and a planned meet up seems beyond him atm. I have turned up unannounced on occassion to talk to my bf when he has done the silent treatment on me for too long (for me) and it has gone better than I assumed it would. Just seems like something you need to do and also takes away the planning part on his side.

just a thought

hugs to you  

Closure or lack there of - is a common theme on the leaving board - you are not alone in wanting unsaid things said.

Is it possible for you to use his silence as an indication that right now he really does not need or want communication?

Push/pull can be a 2 way street in these breakups... . if you don't want to push him farther away, you will likely need to sit tight and let him come around in his own time.  Can you do this?

seeking balance... . I know you are right.  I'm really trying hard to come to the conclusion (so I can STOP this) that he doesn't need or want communication.  It gets confusing when you read so much and try to understand what might be going on during these times of silence-but you really can't know since it varies from person to person.  Some say keep little messages coming (the object constancy thing), some say leave them alone or it will drive them farther away.  I don't want him to forget me... . as pathetic as that sounds sometimes.  I also want to give this another chance if given the opportunity-which I may not have.  2 months seems like such a long long time... .

connect-as for "accidentally" bumping into him, there were all kinds of places we went together but he's not going to them now.  I don't know where he goes now.  I couldn't bring myself to just show up at his apartment-even if I had the code/key to the main entrance. I do respect his privacy, even tho I'm going nuts.

I really appreciate the feedback. Thank you.   I hope you are both doing well

I know it can be hard, when we let go... . things work out as they should.  It is sad to lose anyone who was a significant part of our lives.  Can you feel that empty space with a new hobby during this hard time?

The good thing is that I'm surrounded by the most incredibly loving friends and family and have a job that is keeping me busy.  I've been trying to stay physically active-cycling, getting to the gym more, that kind of thing.  All of our common friends (with the exception of 2 guys) were mine before we met and are there for me now.  He doesn't have a circle of friends.  All of mine really loved him, as did my family.  People have been saying for over two years how they've never ever seen me so happy.  Very hard to let go-but also realizing what might have been real and what might not have been...

It was all real... . it just isn't sustainable for pwBPD... . but the good was as real as the now pain.

Did he show other BPD traits during your relationship?

Yes, now that I know what they are-he sure did.  Three failed marriages, estranged from his two (wonderful) daughters for 4 years due to some slight-he's out of touch with them again now that he and I are broken up (or whatever we are), estranged from his father, estranged from his sister, estranged from his uncles due to some slight, has a grandson he met but doesn't stay in contact with, no relationship failures are his fault, anxiety, short silent treatments a couple of times-during which he did the  Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde thing (different to me than to others), extreme emotions-especially when something upsets him like his mom's passing, his daughters doing something nice- I remember him crying when the person he rented his apartment from was so nice to him by waiving a week's rent... . that kind of thing, easily ending friendships when he feels slighted.  He also had a traumatic childhood-abuse, sister committed suicide, father left, mother was abusive... . sad stuff.   Like many here, I had never heard of BPD before our break up.

You definitely described some characteristics of unstable relationships.  I know I thought I would be different than the others before me.

The other relationships he abandoned, did he cut all ties or did he eventually go back to them?

I believe his first two wives left him-he never says anything bad about them-he's friendly enough with the second one, the mother of his daughters.  He was married to his third wife the longest (14 years) and they would go through explosive make up break up cycles and not speak for months, then he would come back-very emotionally volatile relationship.  He re-established a relationship with his daughters, but only because one showed up at his doorstep and said "enough!"  He went back and forth with his sister and fathers I believe, but hasn't been in touch with them since I've known him. Something weird happened with his uncles surrounding his mother's estate (she passed away right before he and I met). His two good guy-friends have been pals for a long time.  I like them, one of them has been in touch with me a bit-just saying he's there to talk with any time, but can't shed any light on why my ex is not speaking to me.

So, based on his past behavior it seems reasonable he will contact you when he is ready, right?

perhaps... . but we didn't have anything like the volatility in his 14 year marriage.  Part of me wonders if the drama and excitement is what kept him coming back to her.  She also had emotional and relationship issues.  I might just be too nice... . does that happen?

What do you mean?

I've read about BPD until I don't think there's anything left to read    One theory is that pwBPD stay in those drama-filled and volatile relationships longer because it makes the FEEL more and because  there are more opportunities to exert control and power.   We weren't like that.  Never any name-calling, meanness... . lots of patience and loving support. 

Guessing about which triggers which maladaptive coping skill is a fruitless effort.  His other relationship fallouts have come back around, it seems based on what you wrote.

Sorry, not familiar with your entire story... . After 2 years, did you see the BPD patterns before the end?

This board is undecided, are you undecided because he broke up with you or do you want a relationship with him when he contacts you?

Really good question.  I'm on the undecided board because I'm in denial I guess that we're really broken up, and hoping for another chance.  However I can say that if we were to go through this another time, or some variation of it after a reconciliation, I'd be moving right over the the relationship ending board.

In hindsight, I recognize that the BPD patterns were there in terms of his relationships with others and overly-emotional reactions to things.  For us, the slient treatment stuff didn't start showing up until about 3 months before things blew up over the Fourth of July holiday. 

If you want to slog through my story, it's back in my early posts.

Thanks for this discussion.  It really helps-I don't feel so anxious or alone out here-very grateful! 

How about you?  How are you?

I am great... . life does get better when I took the advice a few years ago and simply focused on me and my recovery.

You are not alone and it is ok to be sad.  If you want him back, spend your time on staying so you know how to handle the BPD challenges.  If you are ready to let to... . let go and stop texting him.  There is no right/wrong answer, only paths and experiences.

Either way, if I were in your shoes, I would focus on some core self worth.

Peace,

SB

Isseeu,

I think you're doing everything right. One of the challenges in these relationships is that, just because it's not working out, doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong.

I don't think the kind of overtures you're making are oppressive enough to drive him away. He was already away. Anything less could be read as you not caring; the little pings seem appropriate, not shaming, not controlling.

When you asked him what you should make of the silence, & got silence -- it seems very hard for pwBPD to explain why they are doing what they are doing. If pressed or criticized they may come up with some explanation that makes little sense, but the silence may be because he doesn't know what to say. That's the case with my pwBPD. When I ask "why" questions, to give him credit, he generally doesn't resort to some rationalization, but instead he stays silent, & over time I've gleaned that this is because his feelings require him to do what he's doing (pulling away) but he can't explain why in terms that make sense, & he knows that.

I can tell you are in a lot of pain. This is not a "well, he doesn't want to see you anymore, oh well, move on & get over it" situation. This is incomprehensible, a primal abandonment, a chaos of cognitive dissonance, & it's so tempting to think there must be something you're supposed to do differently to get a different outcome (which is a trauma response BTW). FWIW, seems to me nothing you're doing is making it worse. If this can be fixed, what you're doing is as likely as anything to help. It may be months before he can connect. They need a lot of time sometimes.

Mine it seems like when she ends it, she ends it, period. And when she recycles me, she comes back at me full force. Not sure what/if I do to speed up her return. Only thing I notice, regardless if I try reasoning nicely with her, or say the most terrible things imaginable to her, as she's ending it, I always go "no contact" at some point, mostly due to be emotionally exhausted and believing she really hates me, like she says. She always comes back, its 7 or 8 times now, starting to get the numbers involving breakup/ makeup cycles mixed up in my head.

Now whatever goes on on her end while she's gone, I don't know, maybe she got used for sex, maybe whoever her backup plan was didn't buy in, or maybe she just stayed alone and missed me, I have no idea. Maybe money has something to do with it during our breakups and she's comes back in survival mode. I'm lost, always wondering if she really loves me and can't help her behavior.

Hi blurry,

Thanks so much for writing back.  I'm really really struggling-going on week 9 now of silent treatment-this is our first ( maybe last?) separation and I'm just left so hurt and confused.  It's incredible how much time we spend trying to figure out what's going on.  I've decided to go NC - very hard.  This is day 8... . that's a one day record for me.  It's a bummer because he lives a mile away and on a main route everywhere I go pretty much.  I can see his truck parked there-or not, so I never really get away from it.  I have a feeling he's in a dark place... . nothing I can do.

What's the longest that you've been separated from your gf?   How are things going with you guys?

Isseeu,

Sorry to read what you're going through.

I was in my relationship for 3 years with my uBPDex. We split up a few times & during those break ups I had no idea I was dealing with BPD! I tried all the usual things to win my woman back but more often than not it would leave me hurting more & drive her further away.

Last summer we broke up after she idealized someone else & turned me black. On that break up I stayed NC due to the nature of how unkind she was on the day we split up.

She returned a couple months later & actually admitted that my not chasing her & giving her space actually did good. She admitted that she thought about me more because she was waiting to hear from me & when she didn't she got worried I wasn't ever going to come looking for her & that made her think harder about what she'd lost!

So basically, when they don't want to communicate, leave em well alone & in the space they're trying to keep you out of. When they're ready, it seems only when they're ready, they reach out!

Good luck with your NC.

Thanks so much cozmo-that gives me strength.  I'm so grateful.

 Iss, this is our first breakup as husband and wife, started 3 weeks after getting back from our honeymoon. As far as how its going, day 8 of NC, over three weeks since she left/I changed locks, and I've since moved out of state.

Guess in the past, we had a 5 day breakup (10 days apart total), she changed her mind before it got to NC, a 20 day breakup during which time we went NC, and she recycled an ex, a ten week breakup (last 6 weeks of which were NC, she was banging a guy off a dating website during that time), a month long breakup, came back after the last few days I went NC, and then a 3 week breakup, again, last 3 days of which I went NC.

So basically she only comes back after a period of NC, nothing I say before NC ever changed her mind. And always a risk of her being promiscuous during the NC. So its been periods of, NC for anywhere between 3 days and 6 weeks. Technically she recycled me after 4 years initially, we had a 3 week fling back in 08 before she reached out again last year.

So hows it going for me, I'm struggling, but I know based on the longest break me and her have had, I was feeling better after 6 weeks NC, and really made her sweat it out before I went back to her that time, but ultimately, she didn't follow through on her promises and reverted back to her BPD self. Also note, she recycled her ex after 5 months with me, and tried (apparently he didn't take her back this time, but I guess that could change if she persists) to recycle him again the same day she left me last month, so that would of been a recycle attempt after 10 months.

Honestly, all bets are off with this illness.

Isseeu:

I know what you are experiencing and I tell you that I feel it is best for you to stop all of your contacts.  Back 2 years ago, my ex told me to stop calling and at first I did not listen and continued and I got the silent treatment terribly.  In my case, he broke up with me in December 2010 and told me not to contact him.  I did not listen and continued to contact him until about July 2011 when I just started to feel like a real loser.  At that point I decided I was not going to contact him ever again.  Well, about September 2011 I began to get these weird "blocked call contacts" from him.    At some points, I get weekly calls but at others my contacts are monthly.  For the last month, I have gotten weekly calls and my assumption is that when he is in-between relationships, he reaches out and contacts me more.  I pick up the calls and he says nothing.  On a few occassions, he has told me he misses me and I just listen and then wait for him to hang up. 

I want you to just stop all contact and see what happens.  If he comes back and you are willing to accept him, them reciprocate when he calls.  If he does not ever call, just consider it his lost, endure the pain, heal, and slowly move on with your life. 

I have found great strength and confidence in how I now handle my ex.  I love him dearly but until the day he can call me and respond in a healthy, mature manner, I will not even consider reconciliation. In this way, you give him some power yet keep a bit for yourself too.

Good advice Detroit!

Thanks Blurry!

Wow, that is a great deal of cycling in and out.  Have you ever attended therapy or have you just given up because of the illness?

Only way I was getting therapy, and I've been asking since march, was through her insurance, I've admitted I need it in order to help learn how to react properly to her, plus learn forgiveness and how to lose resentment.

I went as far as suggesting to her that we sign up for couples therapy with a therapist who has real knowledge of BPD, and even told her that if she didn't want to or changed her mind at any point, then id at least go myself. Problem is, there literally is never any time to do it because when things go south, they go south fast. We literally never have any real fighting inside of our relationship because she instantly ends things and leaves the minute it starts, then its a period of text fighting/raging, followed by NC, with me usually having had to move back out of state where I originally lived when the relationship started.

The only time anything constructive is ever mentioned on her part, about us fixing whatever is wrong with us, is when she's begging me to come back for a recycle. The minute I return, all empathy, remorse, responsibility for her past actions, its all gone. Every time, and I can't seem to separate her from the illness and be non reactive towards her behavior, I take it personal every time. And I trigger these episodes.

Leaving, staying, that's never been a choice I've had, and nothing I've ever tried has changed her mind. Only choice I've ever had was whether or not to take her back 6 times now when she comes crawling back begging and apologizing, and I've never failed her once.

Last thing I said to her before shutting down shop and moving out of the state last month was " if you let me leave, you wont ever see or speak with me again until you can prove you've been in therapy 6 months". I figure at that point, if she hasn't already divorced me or moved on completely, ill get in therapy too, with her or without, through her insurance. In the meantime, from past experience, I know a huge issue in aa meetings is forgiveness, and resentment. They're constantly topics that those meetings address, so that might be my best avenue for now, I can use the help one way or another, if I'm ever gonna be with her or not again.

Sorry for hijacking this thread for selfish reasons, having a really bad day here.

blurry you're not hijacking the thread-don't think of it that way.

It sucks.  I'm having a very very hard time too.  I just learned that my uBPD ex's (or whatever he is) daughter is in town.  She and I are very close.  When we broke up in July, she was so upset and she sent a gift, wanted to be Facebook friends, has been texting, emailing, etc.  All very sweet-I really love her.  She credits me for reconnecting with her dad-both daughters said they had never seen him so happy.  Strangely, he hadn't been in touch with his daughters for over 4 years when we met.  I'm still not clear why.  Anyway-she hasn't contacted me to get together.  I learned via Facebook that she will be here for 8 days... .   it's heartbreaking.  Maybe she will... .    The urge to contact him now that I know she is here is almost overwhelming... . but I'm not going to.  I hope... .

Anyway, I wish you the best.  This road is really really hard.  Two months ago I had never heard of BPD.  Now, I'm all consumed with learning what I can, have lost 14 pounds since July 7 (didn't really hae it to lose... ), am in therapy and started on antidepressants on Tuesday-something I never EVER thought I would do.  bleh

Take care of yourself Isseeu, whether you never see him again, or if somehow he wakes up tomorrow cured (not happening), don't self destruct or punish yourself. I learned about this 7 months and 3 breakups ago, but apparently I haven't learned to not self destruct, and now I'm facing not only the heartbreak of the split, but no job, again, lost my apartment, again, flat broke, again, barely made it out of an out of control drinking binge, again. Just take care of yourself, mentally and physically, really no other option, now more than ever.

Isseeu:

Top priority right now is you and your health.  Try with all your energy to really feel these tough emotions and manage them effectively.  I often gave myself a certain time of day to really just dig into those thoughts and memories and cry.  I also made sure I found time to focus on the other things in my life such as my job and kids.  Please do not let this destroy you.  You have the strength to see this through!

I know from experience that it hurts like hell but trust me, it gets better with time!

Thanks blurry and DetroitDame,  so much. 

blurry, you've been through and are dealing with so much.  I hope that you are taking DetroitDame's advice as well-it's so hard.

I'm determined not to self-destruct over this. I really really am trying-and making progress.  I'm doing a lot better than I was-but those bleeping crying jags just sneak up on ya.   I'm so fortunate to be surrounded by incredibly loyal, wonderful, loving and PATIENT friends and family.  I probably shouldn't have been paid at work for a good chunk of the last couple of months but I'm getting my legs back under me... . slowly!

In some ways, I think that this would have been easier if I had been in one of the relationship patterns others had - where there had been a bunch of nasty things said, bad behavior, multiple recycles.  I had the short bouts of sulking, a couple episodes of silent tmt, and obvious stress and anxiety he was experiencing that he couldn't really explain well.  The break up "blow up" was the only anger I had seen... . and he's been silent ever since, save a few little texts earlier.    I know that it's hard either way but we really did have a wonderful 2+ years for the most part-even tho the BPD signs were there in hindsight.  I guess it's not easy no matter what but detaching is hard when the process hadn't started earlier-and when I'm just not sure what his silence means.  I'm trying very hard not to ruminate about that because I just can't know. 

Thank you again for caring.  I tell ya, where would we be without this message board.  I would be crazed and in worse shape, trying to figure out just what the hell I was dealing with.     

The silent treatment is a form of emotional abuse. They use it because it makes them feel powerful and in control. My opinion is that the best way to deal with it is to follow the golden rule. Give it right back to them. Show them that it doesn't affect you. Maintain no contact and eventually your silence will eat at them and they will contact you.

Thanks papawapa,

9 weeks just seems like such a long time for a silent treatment.  I'm wondering if it's beyond him even caring if he's punishing me or not - but that he just doesn't care anymore.  That thought really eats me alive.  I can't believe that would be true after 2+ really great years and only one blow up-when he ended things.  I hadn't texted for almost two weeks.  His daughter is in town and I sent a message yesterday asking him if he would take a gift to her that I bought.  (She and I have been very close and he is fine with me staying in touch with her-which I have).  Anyway, I didn't get a response from him-which sucks.

It sounds like you need to just show up at his house and demand answers. Or stop contacting him. Or write him a letter with everything you need to say and don't dwell on whether he responds to it. Several weeks after the breakup you are waiting on his next move and it's holding you back from any progress or decision-making in your own life.

I am eight weeks NC with my uBPDex. He and I will probably never contact each other again because we exchanged some harsh words. He rejected me and all that and one thing I don't regret is I blasted him on the way out with all the crappy things he said and did to me. I rolled up my sleeves and got dirty and gave the hurt back to him.

Naturally he thinks I'm crazy and said he wants nothing to do with me. Fine. At least I got off my chest some things he needed to hear from me. I had to do this in text because typical coward pwBPD, he refused to see me or take my calls. I am so glad I unloaded what I had to say to him. I kept those texts and have re-read them and my instincts are correct: I'm not crazy. He was uncaring, mean and angry and I called it correctly. Those texts reveal that I had more strength, smarts and self-respect than I thought at the time.

A couple of unrelated points.

I went through 10 weeks of silent treatment after I asked some gentle questions about my pwBPD's decision to suddenly move across the country and relocate to another city for no particular reason.  We only reconnected when I finally broke down & sent another email asking if my comments had been hard to hear.  He was very angry and nasty, and said he'd been at the point of giving up on our friendship ... .it wasn't good.

But what I learned in our processing of that in the weeks that followed was that it certainly wasn't that he didn't care.  He simply didn't have the tools to process what had happened & didn't know how to express his feelings in a way he thought I could hear.  We went back & forth quite a bit with me affirming that it was OK with me for him to be mad, and that I'd far rather hear that he was angry with me, than for him to just give up.

I am sure your ex cares.  It seems likely that he feels stuck & doesn't know how to repair or address the situation, maybe lacks confidence that such a situation can be repaired.  If you have future communication, I guess I'd suggest focusing on "whatever feelings you were having about us when you left, or since, are OK with me, I can hear them."  That type of thing.

On the other hand, when someone is willing and able to react like this in the midst of an otherwise loving, calm r/s, is it promising about how issues will be handled in the future?  Probably not.  This experience provides important data about what he may do again in the future.

One more point.  I would choose communication along the lines of the above, which is about the two of you, rather than anything about his daughter.  He may view the latter as manipulative, as in, you are using his daughter to try to force him to respond when he obviously doesn't otherwise want to.  So if I were you, I'd handle all transactions & communications with/about his daughter directly with the daughter, and not involve him at all.

 

I do believe that he feels stuck.  I don't think that this is deliberate punishment-maybe that's wishful thinking-but I believe he is in a lot of pain. 

The experience does absolutely give me important data about how he will handle difficulty in the future-and I would not go through this again. 

As for the communication about his daughter, your comment patientandclear made me take a clear look at my motive behind it.  She doesn't have a car to come see me and I know he will be seeing her AND he lives a mile from me-we had been in an earlier pattern of me leaving things in this box on my deck for him to pick up.  I was thinking he could do that with her gift.  But the fact is, it was manipulative on my part.  I can always mail her the gift if there isn't a time for me to go meet up with her myself during her short stay.

peas-I can't just show up at his house because he lives in a secure apartment building.  I would have to call him for access, and he won't answer.  That feels a bit like stalking to me-and I don't want to  go there.

Whats stopping you from contacting his daughter yourself?  You dont need to use him as a go between.

Nothing-I have been in touch with her.  I was contacting him to try to have a back up plan to get her gift to her if she isn't able to get together with me.  She's only here for a short time and the main purpose of her visit is to see her sick grandmother. 

Isseeu, it takes a lot of integrity to self-analyze and see the partially manipulative motives behind that overture about his daughter.  Don't worry about it -- anyone would be tempted to find a neutral, understandable way to connect in this situation.

But I have a suggestion.  I know you've tried pinging him with warm, not-heavy texts in the past, telling him, essentially, you are still here.  I think that's a good strategy, or at least, that it doesn't do harm, if you want to maintain the r/s, as we've discussed before.

But I am guessing those warm, light overtures have NOT been weighted down with a discussion of what happened causing him to leave.

I'm wondering if you might find it worthwhile to write one last email message, explaining your openness to whatever feelings led him to feel that leaving was necessary, and assuring him that you can hear those without judgment and not in turn reject him for having felt those things.  That you understand that only powerful, bad feelings would have led him to take that step, and those feelings are safe to express to you.  That you are not mad at him, and that you would be open to talking about how those feelings could be accommodated in any r/s you have going forward.

If you send something validating like that, making clear you are offering a safe space for his actual feelings ... .perhaps you could feel like you have done everything you can, for now. And then feel better about leaving it, if he doesn't respond right away.

That really is the limit of what we can do while maintaining self-respect: offer the other person a safe space to feel their feelings while remaining in the r/s.  If you can do that, maybe you could be a bit more at peace that for things to move past this point, he will need to reach out for the hand that you are clearly extending him with such a message.

If you do