The pain of trying to reconnect... I wonder if I'm blowing it

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

It's been almost 8 weeks now since my uBPD ex?bf raged and broke up.  To recap, we were together for a wonderful 2+ years-this was the first time I had ever seen his anger.  I just can not accept that we might be over and keep getting these very strong waves of trying to connect with him.  I send brief, non-emotional "thinking about you" texts, ask him if he would like to have coffee - they go ignored.  Although when I asked about coffee last Friday, he at least responded with "I have an appointment this morning."

So this morning, I sent another.  Well, two.  First, asking him if he would meet me for coffee some time over the next few days.  A couple of hours later, asking him to help me interpret the silence-telling him that there were things left unsaid, telling him that I would respect a wish of NC, telling him that I cared and that I wish I had fully understood what he was dealing with before everything blew up-asking him to meet with me... etc.  Nothing.

I don't want to push him farther away, but want to keep a lifeline out there.  We are in our mid-fifties, I can't believe after all I've been through in my life-how devastating this break up is... . if that's what it is for sure.  He lives so close to me-really really hard.  Would love your thoughts... .

I never in my wildest imagination would have thought we would go almost two months without speaking.  You would also think it should be getting easier... .

[isseeu]

It's been almost 8 weeks now since my uBPD ex?bf raged and broke up.  To recap, we were together for a wonderful 2+ years-this was the first time I had ever seen his anger.  I just can not accept that we might be over and keep getting these very strong waves of trying to connect with him.  I send brief, non-emotional "thinking about you" texts, ask him if he would like to have coffee - they go ignored.  Although when I asked about coffee last Friday, he at least responded with "I have an appointment this morning."

So this morning, I sent another.  Well, two.  First, asking him if he would meet me for coffee some time over the next few days.  A couple of hours later, asking him to help me interpret the silence-telling him that there were things left unsaid, telling him that I would respect a wish of NC, telling him that I cared and that I wish I had fully understood what he was dealing with before everything blew up-asking him to meet with me... etc.  Nothing.

I don't want to push him farther away, but want to keep a lifeline out there.  We are in our mid-fifties, I can't believe after all I've been through in my life-how devastating this break up is... . if that's what it is for sure.  He lives so close to me-really really hard.  Would love your thoughts... .

I never in my wildest imagination would have thought we would go almost two months without speaking.  You would also think it should be getting easier... .

[connect]

Hello there  

I can tell that you really want to talk to him and I think that it's very reasonable that you should given your 2 year history. Does he have a pattern of going somewhere at a certain time? Could you just "bump" into him? I know that lots of people advise giving them space until they come round but you really sound like you need to talk to him and a planned meet up seems beyond him atm. I have turned up unannounced on occassion to talk to my bf when he has done the silent treatment on me for too long (for me) and it has gone better than I assumed it would. Just seems like something you need to do and also takes away the planning part on his side.

just a thought

hugs to you  

[seeking balance]

  A couple of hours later, asking him to help me interpret the silence-telling him that there were things left unsaid, telling him that I would respect a wish of NC, telling him that I cared and that I wish I had fully understood what he was dealing with before everything blew up-asking him to meet with me... etc.  Nothing.

I don't want to push him farther away, but want to keep a lifeline out there. 

Closure or lack there of - is a common theme on the leaving board - you are not alone in wanting unsaid things said.

Is it possible for you to use his silence as an indication that right now he really does not need or want communication?

Push/pull can be a 2 way street in these breakups... . if you don't want to push him farther away, you will likely need to sit tight and let him come around in his own time.  Can you do this?

[isseeu]

seeking balance... . I know you are right.  I'm really trying hard to come to the conclusion (so I can STOP this) that he doesn't need or want communication.  It gets confusing when you read so much and try to understand what might be going on during these times of silence-but you really can't know since it varies from person to person.  Some say keep little messages coming (the object constancy thing), some say leave them alone or it will drive them farther away.  I don't want him to forget me... . as pathetic as that sounds sometimes.  I also want to give this another chance if given the opportunity-which I may not have.  2 months seems like such a long long time... .

connect-as for "accidentally" bumping into him, there were all kinds of places we went together but he's not going to them now.  I don't know where he goes now.  I couldn't bring myself to just show up at his apartment-even if I had the code/key to the main entrance. I do respect his privacy, even tho I'm going nuts.

I really appreciate the feedback. Thank you.   I hope you are both doing well

[seeking balance]

I know it can be hard, when we let go... . things work out as they should.  It is sad to lose anyone who was a significant part of our lives.  Can you feel that empty space with a new hobby during this hard time?

[isseeu]

The good thing is that I'm surrounded by the most incredibly loving friends and family and have a job that is keeping me busy.  I've been trying to stay physically active-cycling, getting to the gym more, that kind of thing.  All of our common friends (with the exception of 2 guys) were mine before we met and are there for me now.  He doesn't have a circle of friends.  All of mine really loved him, as did my family.  People have been saying for over two years how they've never ever seen me so happy.  Very hard to let go-but also realizing what might have been real and what might not have been...

[seeking balance]

The good thing is that I'm surrounded by the most incredibly loving friends and family and have a job that is keeping me busy.  I've been trying to stay physically active-cycling, getting to the gym more, that kind of thing.  All of our common friends (with the exception of 2 guys) were mine before we met and are there for me now.  He doesn't have a circle of friends.  All of mine really loved him, as did my family.  People have been saying for over two years how they've never ever seen me so happy.  Very hard to let go-but also realizing what might have been real and what might not have been...

It was all real... . it just isn't sustainable for pwBPD... . but the good was as real as the now pain.

Did he show other BPD traits during your relationship?

[isseeu]

Yes, now that I know what they are-he sure did.  Three failed marriages, estranged from his two (wonderful) daughters for 4 years due to some slight-he's out of touch with them again now that he and I are broken up (or whatever we are), estranged from his father, estranged from his sister, estranged from his uncles due to some slight, has a grandson he met but doesn't stay in contact with, no relationship failures are his fault, anxiety, short silent treatments a couple of times-during which he did the  Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde thing (different to me than to others), extreme emotions-especially when something upsets him like his mom's passing, his daughters doing something nice- I remember him crying when the person he rented his apartment from was so nice to him by waiving a week's rent... . that kind of thing, easily ending friendships when he feels slighted.  He also had a traumatic childhood-abuse, sister committed suicide, father left, mother was abusive... . sad stuff.   Like many here, I had never heard of BPD before our break up.

[seeking balance]

You definitely described some characteristics of unstable relationships.  I know I thought I would be different than the others before me.

The other relationships he abandoned, did he cut all ties or did he eventually go back to them?

[isseeu]

I believe his first two wives left him-he never says anything bad about them-he's friendly enough with the second one, the mother of his daughters.  He was married to his third wife the longest (14 years) and they would go through explosive make up break up cycles and not speak for months, then he would come back-very emotionally volatile relationship.  He re-established a relationship with his daughters, but only because one showed up at his doorstep and said "enough!"  He went back and forth with his sister and fathers I believe, but hasn't been in touch with them since I've known him. Something weird happened with his uncles surrounding his mother's estate (she passed away right before he and I met). His two good guy-friends have been pals for a long time.  I like them, one of them has been in touch with me a bit-just saying he's there to talk with any time, but can't shed any light on why my ex is not speaking to me.

[seeking balance]

So, based on his past behavior it seems reasonable he will contact you when he is ready, right?

[isseeu]

perhaps... . but we didn't have anything like the volatility in his 14 year marriage.  Part of me wonders if the drama and excitement is what kept him coming back to her.  She also had emotional and relationship issues.  I might just be too nice... . does that happen?

[seeking balance]

perhaps... . but we didn't have anything like the volatility in his 14 year marriage.  Part of me wonders if the drama and excitement is what kept him coming back to her.  She also had emotional and relationship issues.  I might just be too nice... . does that happen?

What do you mean?

[isseeu]

I've read about BPD until I don't think there's anything left to read    One theory is that pwBPD stay in those drama-filled and volatile relationships longer because it makes the FEEL more and because  there are more opportunities to exert control and power.   We weren't like that.  Never any name-calling, meanness... . lots of patience and loving support. 

[seeking balance]

I've read about BPD until I don't think there's anything left to read    One theory is that pwBPD stay in those drama-filled and volatile relationships longer because it makes the FEEL more and because  there are more opportunities to exert control and power.   We weren't like that.  Never any name-calling, meanness... . lots of patience and loving support. 

Guessing about which triggers which maladaptive coping skill is a fruitless effort.  His other relationship fallouts have come back around, it seems based on what you wrote.

Sorry, not familiar with your entire story... . After 2 years, did you see the BPD patterns before the end?

This board is undecided, are you undecided because he broke up with you or do you want a relationship with him when he contacts you?

[isseeu]

Really good question.  I'm on the undecided board because I'm in denial I guess that we're really broken up, and hoping for another chance.  However I can say that if we were to go through this another time, or some variation of it after a reconciliation, I'd be moving right over the the relationship ending board.

In hindsight, I recognize that the BPD patterns were there in terms of his relationships with others and overly-emotional reactions to things.  For us, the slient treatment stuff didn't start showing up until about 3 months before things blew up over the Fourth of July holiday. 

If you want to slog through my story, it's back in my early posts.

Thanks for this discussion.  It really helps-I don't feel so anxious or alone out here-very grateful! 

How about you?  How are you?

[seeking balance]

Really good question.  I'm on the undecided board because I'm in denial I guess that we're really broken up, and hoping for another chance.  However I can say that if we were to go through this another time, or some variation of it after a reconciliation, I'd be moving right over the the relationship ending board.

In hindsight, I recognize that the BPD patterns were there in terms of his relationships with others and overly-emotional reactions to things.  For us, the slient treatment stuff didn't start showing up until about 3 months before things blew up over the Fourth of July holiday. 

If you want to slog through my story, it's back in my early posts.

Thanks for this discussion.  It really helps-I don't feel so anxious or alone out here-very grateful! 

How about you?  How are you?

I am great... . life does get better when I took the advice a few years ago and simply focused on me and my recovery.

You are not alone and it is ok to be sad.  If you want him back, spend your time on staying so you know how to handle the BPD challenges.  If you are ready to let to... . let go and stop texting him.  There is no right/wrong answer, only paths and experiences.

Either way, if I were in your shoes, I would focus on some core self worth.

Peace,

SB

[patientandclear]

Isseeu,

I think you're doing everything right. One of the challenges in these relationships is that, just because it's not working out, doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong.

I don't think the kind of overtures you're making are oppressive enough to drive him away. He was already away. Anything less could be read as you not caring; the little pings seem appropriate, not shaming, not controlling.

When you asked him what you should make of the silence, & got silence -- it seems very hard for pwBPD to explain why they are doing what they are doing. If pressed or criticized they may come up with some explanation that makes little sense, but the silence may be because he doesn't know what to say. That's the case with my pwBPD. When I ask "why" questions, to give him credit, he generally doesn't resort to some rationalization, but instead he stays silent, & over time I've gleaned that this is because his feelings require him to do what he's doing (pulling away) but he can't explain why in terms that make sense, & he knows that.

I can tell you are in a lot of pain. This is not a "well, he doesn't want to see you anymore, oh well, move on & get over it" situation. This is incomprehensible, a primal abandonment, a chaos of cognitive dissonance, & it's so tempting to think there must be something you're supposed to do differently to get a different outcome (which is a trauma response BTW). FWIW, seems to me nothing you're doing is making it worse. If this can be fixed, what you're doing is as likely as anything to help. It may be months before he can connect. They need a lot of time sometimes.

[blurry]

Mine it seems like when she ends it, she ends it, period. And when she recycles me, she comes back at me full force. Not sure what/if I do to speed up her return. Only thing I notice, regardless if I try reasoning nicely with her, or say the most terrible things imaginable to her, as she's ending it, I always go "no contact" at some point, mostly due to be emotionally exhausted and believing she really hates me, like she says. She always comes back, its 7 or 8 times now, starting to get the numbers involving breakup/ makeup cycles mixed up in my head.

Now whatever goes on on her end while she's gone, I don't know, maybe she got used for sex, maybe whoever her backup plan was didn't buy in, or maybe she just stayed alone and missed me, I have no idea. Maybe money has something to do with it during our breakups and she's comes back in survival mode. I'm lost, always wondering if she really loves me and can't help her behavior.

[isseeu]

Hi blurry,

Thanks so much for writing back.  I'm really really struggling-going on week 9 now of silent treatment-this is our first ( maybe last?) separation and I'm just left so hurt and confused.  It's incredible how much time we spend trying to figure out what's going on.  I've decided to go NC - very hard.  This is day 8... . that's a one day record for me.  It's a bummer because he lives a mile away and on a main route everywhere I go pretty much.  I can see his truck parked there-or not, so I never really get away from it.  I have a feeling he's in a dark place... . nothing I can do.

What's the longest that you've been separated from your gf?   How are things going with you guys?

[cozmo]

Isseeu,

Sorry to read what you're going through.

I was in my relationship for 3 years with my uBPDex. We split up a few times & during those break ups I had no idea I was dealing with BPD! I tried all the usual things to win my woman back but more often than not it would leave me hurting more & drive her further away.

Last summer we broke up after she idealized someone else & turned me black. On that break up I stayed NC due to the nature of how unkind she was on the day we split up.

She returned a couple months later & actually admitted that my not chasing her & giving her space actually did good. She admitted that she thought about me more because she was waiting to hear from me & when she didn't she got worried I wasn't ever going to come looking for her & that made her think harder about what she'd lost!

So basically, when they don't want to communicate, leave em well alone & in the space they're trying to keep you out of. When they're ready, it seems only when they're ready, they reach out!

Good luck with your NC.

[isseeu]

Thanks so much cozmo-that gives me strength.  I'm so grateful.

[blurry]

 Iss, this is our first breakup as husband and wife, started 3 weeks after getting back from our honeymoon. As far as how its going, day 8 of NC, over three weeks since she left/I changed locks, and I've since moved out of state.

Guess in the past, we had a 5 day breakup (10 days apart total), she changed her mind before it got to NC, a 20 day breakup during which time we went NC, and she recycled an ex, a ten week breakup (last 6 weeks of which were NC, she was banging a guy off a dating website during that time), a month long breakup, came back after the last few days I went NC, and then a 3 week breakup, again, last 3 days of which I went NC.

So basically she only comes back after a period of NC, nothing I say before NC ever changed her mind. And always a risk of her being promiscuous during the NC. So its been periods of, NC for anywhere between 3 days and 6 weeks. Technically she recycled me after 4 years initially, we had a 3 week fling back in 08 before she reached out again last year.

So hows it going for me, I'm struggling, but I know based on the longest break me and her have had, I was feeling better after 6 weeks NC, and really made her sweat it out before I went back to her that time, but ultimately, she didn't follow through on her promises and reverted back to her BPD self. Also note, she recycled her ex after 5 months with me, and tried (apparently he didn't take her back this time, but I guess that could change if she persists) to recycle him again the same day she left me last month, so that would of been a recycle attempt after 10 months.

Honestly, all bets are off with this illness.

[DetroitDame]

Isseeu:

I know what you are experiencing and I tell you that I feel it is best for you to stop all of your contacts.  Back 2 years ago, my ex told me to stop calling and at first I did not listen and continued and I got the silent treatment terribly.  In my case, he broke up with me in December 2010 and told me not to contact him.  I did not listen and continued to contact him until about July 2011 when I just started to feel like a real loser.  At that point I decided I was not going to contact him ever again.  Well, about September 2011 I began to get these weird "blocked call contacts" from him.    At some points, I get weekly calls but at others my contacts are monthly.  For the last month, I have gotten weekly calls and my assumption is that when he is in-between relationships, he reaches out and contacts me more.  I pick up the calls and he says nothing.  On a few occassions, he has told me he misses me and I just listen and then wait for him to hang up. 

I want you to just stop all contact and see what happens.  If he comes back and you are willing to accept him, them reciprocate when he calls.  If he does not ever call, just consider it his lost, endure the pain, heal, and slowly move on with your life. 

I have found great strength and confidence in how I now handle my ex.  I love him dearly but until the day he can call me and respond in a healthy, mature manner, I will not even consider reconciliation. In this way, you give him some power yet keep a bit for yourself too.

[blurry]

Good advice Detroit!

[DetroitDame]

Good advice Detroit!

Thanks Blurry!

[DetroitDame]

Iss, this is our first breakup as husband and wife, started 3 weeks after getting back from our honeymoon. As far as how its going, day 8 of NC, over three weeks since she left/I changed locks, and I've since moved out of state.

Guess in the past, we had a 5 day breakup (10 days apart total), she changed her mind before it got to NC, a 20 day breakup during which time we went NC, and she recycled an ex, a ten week breakup (last 6 weeks of which were NC, she was banging a guy off a dating website during that time), a month long breakup, came back after the last few days I went NC, and then a 3 week breakup, again, last 3 days of which I went NC.

So basically she only comes back after a period of NC, nothing I say before NC ever changed her mind. And always a risk of her being promiscuous during the NC. So its been periods of, NC for anywhere between 3 days and 6 weeks. Technically she recycled me after 4 years initially, we had a 3 week fling back in 08 before she reached out again last year.

So hows it going for me, I'm struggling, but I know based on the longest break me and her have had, I was feeling better after 6 weeks NC, and really made her sweat it out before I went back to her that time, but ultimately, she didn't follow through on her promises and reverted back to her BPD self. Also note, she recycled her ex after 5 months with me, and tried (apparently he didn't take her back this time, but I guess that could change if she persists) to recycle him again the same day she left me last month, so that would of been a recycle attempt after 10 months.

Honestly, all bets are off with this illness.

Wow, that is a great deal of cycling in and out.  Have you ever attended therapy or have you just given up because of the illness?

[blurry]

Only way I was getting therapy, and I've been asking since march, was through her insurance, I've admitted I need it in order to help learn how to react properly to her, plus learn forgiveness and how to lose resentment.

I went as far as suggesting to her that we sign up for couples therapy with a therapist who has real knowledge of BPD, and even told her that if she didn't want to or changed her mind at any point, then id at least go myself. Problem is, there literally is never any time to do it because when things go south, they go south fast. We literally never have any real fighting inside of our relationship because she instantly ends things and leaves the minute it starts, then its a period of text fighting/raging, followed by NC, with me usually having had to move back out of state where I originally lived when the relationship started.

The only time anything constructive is ever mentioned on her part, about us fixing whatever is wrong with us, is when she's begging me to come back for a recycle. The minute I return, all empathy, remorse, responsibility for her past actions, its all gone. Every time, and I can't seem to separate her from the illness and be non reactive towards her behavior, I take it personal every time. And I trigger these episodes.

[blurry]

Leaving, staying, that's never been a choice I've had, and nothing I've ever tried has changed her mind. Only choice I've ever had was whether or not to take her back 6 times now when she comes crawling back begging and apologizing, and I've never failed her once.

Last thing I said to her before shutting down shop and moving out of the state last month was " if you let me leave, you wont ever see or speak with me again until you can prove you've been in therapy 6 months". I figure at that point, if she hasn't already divorced me or moved on completely, ill get in therapy too, with her or without, through her insurance. In the meantime, from past experience, I know a huge issue in aa meetings is forgiveness, and resentment. They're constantly topics that those meetings address, so that might be my best avenue for now, I can use the help one way or another, if I'm ever gonna be with her or not again.

Sorry for hijacking this thread for selfish reasons, having a really bad day here.

[isseeu]

blurry you're not hijacking the thread-don't think of it that way.

It sucks.  I'm having a very very hard time too.  I just learned that my uBPD ex's (or whatever he is) daughter is in town.  She and I are very close.  When we broke up in July, she was so upset and she sent a gift, wanted to be Facebook friends, has been texting, emailing, etc.  All very sweet-I really love her.  She credits me for reconnecting with her dad-both daughters said they had never seen him so happy.  Strangely, he hadn't been in touch with his daughters for over 4 years when we met.  I'm still not clear why.  Anyway-she hasn't contacted me to get together.  I learned via Facebook that she will be here for 8 days... .   it's heartbreaking.  Maybe she will... .    The urge to contact him now that I know she is here is almost overwhelming... . but I'm not going to.  I hope... .

Anyway, I wish you the best.  This road is really really hard.  Two months ago I had never heard of BPD.  Now, I'm all consumed with learning what I can, have lost 14 pounds since July 7 (didn't really hae it to lose... ), am in therapy and started on antidepressants on Tuesday-something I never EVER thought I would do.  bleh