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Finally have time to start a new post on this topic as many seem to be struggling with the same issues- Accusation and Admitting

Answering alibaba and nevaeh:

I feel horrible having to agree with what my husband thinks “I” am thinking. I always start by trying to tell him what I really think. Of course that doesn’t work and just becomes the trigger where “I never admit to anything, I am stupid and that I even lie to myself and the whole world so I don’t admit I am at fault and therefore, no need to change my way of thinking.” Then he would say he gives up on me and start his silent treatment on me. A lot of times I did agree to keep peace… and that’s not healthy. I eventually thought I was really a bad person and have mental health issues as my H had said. So, I started seeing the psychologist and counselor. They reassured me that I don’t have mental health issues, just having to deal with an H that has most of the BPD traits. The counselor helped me not to understand and not get as frustrated and react as much to his accusation. She said in that moment, he will not believe in anything else but his own thoughts and I don’t need his validation on my own feelings and thinking. Now because I have not been reacting to his accusations, he feels I don’t care about him or the relationship anymore and gave me the longest silent treatment ever. My counsellor said that is a normal process because when someone with BPD sees the other half changing, he will feel he doesn’t have control of me anymore. Anyway, during the silent treatment, I just keep validating him that I do care and love him. Eventually, he talked to me again and I brought up “his thoughts on me” again and what “I” really thought. He just said, “because of the situation, you can’t blame me for thinking of you that way.” Typical BPD…... where he will not admit he was wrong, but at least I was able to effectively communicate to him what I did think. I don’t know if I have resolve this whole accusation and admitting issue, but so far I have only tested things out this way and I have to keep reminding myself that he will not ever agree because of his BPD behaviours.

This happens from time to time with me. Even yesterday, I told my wife that I thought she looked great, and she replied by saying, "No, you're lying. You prefer blondes with big boobs." (I guess I one time, stupidly told her thought I prefer bigger breasts than smaller ones.) Nothing I said would convince her that I do find her beautiful, and that the fact that she's not busty is in no way detrimental to the way I see her. She wouldn't let it go, and it seemed like the only thing that would allow her to drop it is if I said, "You're right, I don't like the way you look." Eventually we reached where we were going (we were driving) and that allowed us to drop it. Thankfully, we didn't pick it up again later. At least, not yet... .

I find that I almost always give in eventually and "agree" with her opinion, especially if things are really heated, it's late at night, I'm really upset, and just want to say anything to stop fighting and go to sleep. Although I try to adjust my mind accordingly and actually believe what it is I agreed to, sometimes I forget and slip a little and have to carefully explain the issue (or else I'd be accused of lying either then or now, which is my wife's biggest pet peeve and fear). One of the biggest things is that my wife is convinced that noticing that somebody else is pretty is the same as checking them out and lusting, and I couldn't convince her that it's perfectly natural for men to notice that other women look nice and that it's not at all a threat to her. Eventually I just agreed to not find anybody ever pretty again. It's actually been mostly successful -- I have not lusted in months and can treat women as I would sisters -- but it's really tiring.

Very good topic. I had probably the worst rage episode to date.  I am being accused of being mean. Because I have mad changes in my life to not let her control everything about me she sees it as being mean.  I have to admit I am or at least come up with a reason why I am all of a sudden doing this... I have always eventually given in. I do not have the same resolve to out last her. It can go for hours and hours and hours way into the night. She wears me down.

They try so hard to force their twisted and flipping reality on us.

I'm battling this right now via text msg while I type.

I replied, "I wish your feelings weren't so accusatory."

They need validation.

This is probably one if the most difficult things about my experience with my BPDh. He has told me for years that it was me. I always thought of him as so logical and analytical that when he would demand me to except I was wrong (even when I knew it was not true)I would question myself.  I started to doubt my reality. It has  been a long process coming to understand BPD and how they think in black and white, how feelings equal facts and how his reality is not always correct no matter how smart and accomplished he is. I think once you have the confidence to just say what you believe and not doubt yourself. Once you get to that point you stop having to explain yourself. You stop trying to convince them of your side. It is so freeing to know that you can walk away from an argument. Save your breathe all the air in the world will never be enough to  convince someone with BPD of your truth. Just know that it  is yours and they can't take it away.

     I have noticed the more I just state my thoughts, keeping them simple and to the point the less he argues. If he argues I just repeat simple words over again. I do not explain. If he continues further I say we will just have to disagree and walk away. Surprising to me is that sometimes now he actually apologizes a little while later ( they don't always last but still better then nothing)

     I am by no means saying it is easy because on a bad day I can still be sucked in. Learning all you can about BPD and about yourself. Especially about yourself. That's where you will get your confidence to stand up for yourself and not get sucked in.

I thought and still think of my wife as a very logical person... . now I find it primarliy only applies to things that are not related to her or her feelings. I started to really doubt my sanity when my wife convinced me that my words that I was thinking would change whenI tried to speak them. So I would have a thought about X and when I would explain it it would turn to Y.  The worst part was that I beleived that was happening and I don't even know it. Scary. It causes you to really doubt you sanity in this relationship.

Itul

Your suggestions are right on.  To avoid a long, drawn-out argument, state your opinion briefly and simply then walk away.  Do not engage.  Do not be combative.

Sometimes pwBPD will actually try to tell you what you are thinking or feeling.  They do this because they believe nons "know" what THEY are thinking without verbalizing anything.

When this happens, I simply correct my dBPDs by saying... . "you do not know what I am thinking" or "you do not know how I feel"... . "you are assuming things."  Then stop.  This often opens the door for him to ask what I am REALLY thinking or feeling. 

Silence can be golden.  Often, pwBPD want to talk and us to listen with no interruptions or interjections.  To interrupt says to them that what they are talking about is not important or correct, and we are trying to take over the conversation ... . because we are ALWAYS  right and they are ALWAYS wrong.  It is disrespectful, and many pwBPD have a hard time keeping a train of thought going.  To interrupt them, derails the train, adding confusion and frustration.

It is hard to have conversations with someone whose interpretation of what you are saying may or may not be what you mean.  It can be a real challenge.

I've had this issue from time to time with my wife. I like and have used the advice above to remind her that she doesn't know what's going on in my head anymore than I can read her mind. It's not always easy, but the thing that seems to have helped the most is the reminder that I don't know what she's thinking and that she would feel bad if I made assumptions about it or told her what she was thinking. Over time she has come to accept that while she may not totally believe me, she has to on some level trust what I'm saying. It's taken a long time to get there and it still comes up, especially during arguments or periods of dysregulation.

On the flip side, I need to remind myself that even though I may think I know what's going on in her head, that I really don't and that I need to be careful about making assumptions about her. I think it's been a good lesson for both of us to try and keep in mind.

Self confident people do not require the agreement and validation of others. pwBPD have low self confidence, even if they seem otherwise on the surface. hence they need you to agree/validate their view.

You try to convince them otherwise because they have sapped your self confidence and want them to see that they are wrong you are right> conflict starts. Their need for external validation is stronger than yours so you finally give up and cave in. But you still feel the need to be right, so now you bear resentment that you caved (unfairly beaten in your mind).

The trick is to regain your self confidence so that your desire for others to agree/validate is lessened. You know what you know, they believe what they believe. The two are separate and don't have to be intertwined. You wont feel the need to justify. You wont feel the need to hide your truth either, for if they take exception to it then they start heading towards the realm of boundaries and you disengage. If you just agree you give intermittent reinforcement and the process becomes entrenched.

Demands > Disengage

Abuse> Boundaries

It is the only way they will start to have any realization that Demands or Abuse will gain them no benefits.

Communication has come ineffective in both cases and the level of disrespect is rising.

As lostandunsure has raised, you have to likewise understand that your truth is just your truth from your perspective, nothing more, you are not in their mind, and not seeing things as they do.

I have come to be aware and accept that as a result of the disorder communications will rarely be 100% effective, I am always vigilante of that point were interpretations are starting to veer, it is at that point i cut back and ease off. Otherwise you end up trying to overcorrect to the point that all control is lost.

The degree of ineffectiveness varies, sometimes good, sometimes hopeless.

Disengagement and redirection does not always have to be blunt, it can be subtle especially if not left too late. It is our own stubborness that is often our undoing.

I've actually managed to use this as part of the SET communication--where the T which equals my truth (what's REALLY in my head no matter what he thinks) is stated simply, then when he's gone back to try to force the issue again I repeated those same words. The third time I did what I should have done the 2nd time which was to calmly say "I already told you what I thought/meant/etc." And then removed myself.

Phew-- it took me a lot of reading and asking questions to get to that point, but it was sure a good way to bring the whole thing back down when it could have easily spiraled out of control.

Like Waverider said, I had the confidence to know who I was at that point and what was in my own head and not let his nonsense get the better of me. (sometimes I can.)

I was often told what I was thinking, and it was usually self-hatred and self-judgement projected onto me by my wife.

My natural reaction was to be PISSED when she told me what I was thinking and she was wrong.

I don't recall her asking me to apologize for the thoughts that she projected on me.

Because it was triggering to me, I set a boundary that I wouldn't participate in a discussion where she told me what I was thinking. I wish I had managed to quietly and politely enforce that boundary every time, but at least I didn't continue in that direction.

I think it is a safe bet that any conversation which starts with one person telling the other one what they are thinking and staying there is not a productive one to continue!

And I gotta say it is very freeing to realize that I don't need to prove what I'm thinking to anybody!

This really is a great topic.  lol

Now, I absolutely refuse to agree with something I disagree with because long-term its completely counterproductive.  I like waverider's about demands > disengage and abuse > boundaries.

I'll try to state what I think (short and sweet) and not in a way that says 'I have to have you agree with me' and then scurry away.

I usually try to disengage from these types of situations if its too heated.  If he starts pushing me then I say, "Well I am having trouble communicating what I really think or believe right now... .so I am going to leave the conversation.  Perhaps later when things are calmer I'll be more successful communicating this with you."

Learning that I didn't have to prove I was right was really freeing to me.  Furthermore, learning this with my husband has improved my ability to communicate and work with others (like in a work environment) because I'm not as ego driven as I used to be.  lol

The temporary peace of acquiesence isn't worth the permanent cycle of dysfunction it creates. 

All of this is so familiar.

Like so many of you, I, too, tried to my damnedest to detach from those conversations -- easily 95% of which took place over the phone, or via txt msgs (despite repeated agreements that we wouldn't do that) -- but was met with, "No, I think we need to talk about this now."

What can you do when they just won't let it end, except end it yourself.

Like bc, I finally accepted this:


It all began to feel like too many personal failures to me. Every repeated argument was worse than the last time we had it, despite it being the same damned rehashing nonsense -- in fact, because it was the same damned rehashing! Never once was anything ever put in the past -- except for her mistakes, which I was always got served with a personal foul if I ever brought up anything she'd done.

Everything always boiled down to the same thing -- the continued cycle of arguing made me unhappy, and it didn't appear that it was ever going to end. Then she'd argue that all couples argue, and I have unrealistic expectations. And I'd respond that she had every right to consider my expectations to be unrealistic, but they were mine nonetheless, and I found the level of arguing between us to be miserable, and I wasn't willing to continue to live with it. Then she'd argue that I wanted perfection from her, and I'd never find it, and furthermore, I'd never ever find another good woman who would love me as purely as she did. And I'd say that's sweet of her, but I was afraid the continual arguments over what I should be or shouldn't be doing made me feel pretty much like all I brought to the r-ship was stress, and it wasn't what I aspired to... .you know the drill. It never ended. Because she'd never let it end. I'll never understand that degree of craziness.

But, despite sometimes wishing that I had the patience to be able to sustain our relationship -- I accept that, honestly, I don't want to have to work that hard to maintain a continuum of positive emotional stability with the person who claims to want the same thing as me! I'm not wired for it. The emotionally dysregulated nervous systems of pwBPD totally overload my circuitry.

<ctrl-alt-del>

Shutting down now. Restart?   

Viso, I can relate to your post.  I get accused a lot too, and if I agree then I'm lying to myself and giving him ammunition to attack me in the future ("You see?  Last time you apologised for attacking me!", if I don't it means I'm unrepentant and self-centred ("You aren't even willing to admit you're wrong!".

What I do now is that, if he's putting words in my mouth or thoughts in my mind, like "I know you're thinking that I am wrong."  I will just say outright, "Please do not assume what I think.  I have just told you I agree with you and I didn't think you're wrong."

I also have established my own value that "we don't always have to agree on everything.  It is ok to disagree sometimes without trying to convince the other party of my own beliefs."  Therefore, I may even tell my pwBPD, "I am thinking _____.  You don't have to believe me, and that's ok."  By doing this (you must be calm and not get upset), you are letting the pwBPD know that you are alright with them not believing in you.  On the other hand, you are not going to change your opinions/ beliefs just because they think otherwise.

This is from my personal experience, hope it helps.

My uBPDw has the ability in own "discussions" to keep me from even being able to come up with a responce. And when that happens I am called out on not responding. I have to stop and think if how to respond without it always and I mean always defendingmyself with "NO I'm not".  She has a way to  manuipulate words so that any answer you would give damns you. 


I try this all the time, It hasn't worked once. She has told me I don't care. I said thats fine to I'm just letting you know my thoughts and I have heard yours on this. I know I am not ever going to change her opinion. I can't get her to accept I have one that differs. Its not ok because that means obviously I don't care or love her and thats mean. 

Here's one you can fall back on that I have used at times:

"If I say anything more, I'll say something hurtful that I will later regret."

I gotta admit that most often when I used this one it was as I was walking out the door, trying not to slam it.

Thats her problem not yours, She wants total submission, anything short means she is a failure, and thats not acceptable. You just have to disengage and let her deal with that.

There often is no final resolution. The aim here is to be able to speak your truth not to get them to accept it. That often is not possible.

Sometimes its like negotiating with a suicide bomber when you don't even speak their language. You just have to put your hard hat on and find a safer place. There is no half an explosion and collateral damage is of no concern

What I mean is, you don't try to change her opinion, you don't expect her to accept your opinion, it becomes ok for her to deduce "you don't care/ you don't love me" when you reply this, and even though you don't believe it should be true (i.e. if you do this or that to her, it does NOT mean you don't love her), you don't try to change her opinion of that.  I guess it's part of the radical acceptance we must all learn.  We can't change anybody's opinion.  Whether or not it's valid (sometimes they're completely "out there", there is nothing we can do to guarantee they change their views of us.

As waverider said, you, as a logical person, wants to compromise so there is a mid-way both of you are comfortable with.  With a pwBPD, it is usually all or nothing.  Unless you comply with her wishes 100%, you don't love her.   You know very well that you cannot do the 100% she expects, so you will have to acept that in some way, she will feel that you don't love her (even though it's not true probably).

This brings me to this question I think i saw from someone else to... .If it appears they actually have this ability to be reasonable with others and have pretty logical conversations with them... yet those that are closest to them don't get that side of them.  :'(

Consistency causes emotional overload,. Maintaining a facade causes stress to build up and it needs an outlet. This why big events and social occasions when control is necessary comes with a backlash drama.

Facade and retaliation are equal and opposite sides of the disorder, neither is "normal". This is why the facade can be overly sickly and cheesy.

This is fascinating --


Never thought of it this way before, waverider -- the idea that consistency would be overwhelming. Because, for well-adjusted, self-regulating brains, what could be easier than simply being consistent? But, in the context of a pwBPD, whose emotions are continually in a state of flux -- being consistent requires an act of will on their part. Imagine how much energy they expend to try to provide the outside world with the image they think is expected of them?

Instead of simply being themselves. I wonder, if they could just relax into their disorder, would it possibly help smooth out their moods? Then again, this would require the ability to self-soothe -- for instance, I can tell when I'm in a funk, and I can address it myself, in the form of thinking it through, considering the potential causes, and then coming up with a plan to resolve it.

Very interesting.

This is so simple, but so true and helpful.  I've practiced this on a small scale, and seen positive results.  Thanks for stating something that is relatively easy to remember.

This has been a huge problem in our relationship. I am new to recognizing what has really been going on all these years and all these posts have been blowing my mind. I've wondered what has done so much damage to my soul. It has in part been because I have been forced to agree with him despite what I truly believed. When our kids were growing up at home he would go overboard in disciplining or punishing them not physically, but verbally. And he would spend hours getting me to agree and then force me to go and regurgitate to them what he believes as though it were both of our thoughts on whatever it happened to be at the time. Going against what I really felt and knew to be my truth for so long has taken its toll. I always get told that I don't love him. God forbid I feel differently on any subject than him, even if its not a volatile one. I am slowly trying to learn some of the techniques, but sometimes wonder if I have the strength to keep it up. It's hard to believe there are that many of us out there with the same realities!

Yes I love this.  Would it be inappropriate to get that tattooed on my wrist (kidding!)   *)

Agree. I really wonder why BPDs always have to make things so difficult! Nothing is ever satisfying even with consistency and a stable life. When thing’s been peaceful for a while, they always have to find something, make it complicated and bomb you! Like having to regain the centre of attention again.

Absolutely.  Chaos reigns supreme with BPD.

:)  lol

It's gotten so bad for me that I recently sat down and wrote a 4 page letter admitting to everything she THINKS I did wrong to her.  I tried to remember every single offense I've supposedly committed and began each sentence with, "I was wrong... .," and then confessed to doing whatever it is she has accused me of.  The majority of these things I did not do and do not feel right admitting to, but it's my last desperate attempt to make peace with her and resolve all the issues she has with me.

The problem I've had when I've confessed to things I haven't done, is that she then holds me accountable for the offense and demands to know WHY I did it.  When I don't have an answer she screams at me further, and will bring it up at some point in the future when she feels like going off on me.  My therapist said that since this tactic has never worked in the past, that I should just rip the letter up.  A good friend of mine told me admitting to things I haven't done is lying to myself and self-destructive.  My psychiatrist thinks I'm a masochist.  They are all probably right. 

But I guess none of it matters anyway because she hasn't responded to my last text asking to read the letter to her in person.  I know it's probably for best, but I'm still hoping to get the chance to do it anyway.  Some part of me still thinks it will clear the air, though I know in my heart it won't.

Badly Abused

I feel your pain. I am told several times about all my faults and struggles that are at the casue of her feelings. I to admit toanything and everything she claims. After all if she is feeling that way its has to be true.  I have also written notes and letters and journals about the same things. It hasn't helped. Here is why... .if I did somethign wrong and I admit to it and I am sorry for it I can accept that fact and move on. If I am admitting to soemthign that I don't feel I am to blame for or that for the most cases is not really wrong or bad in reality but it is in her mind then after a period of time I can't stick to feeling like I can own it.

In other words the things I have done wrong and apologise for I can accept when she brings them back up. Its not nice or fun but I can handle it. The things she gets me to admit to and try to change I end up falling flat on my face with over time. To change and be a person Iam not by accepting blame and admitting to things I did not d wrong ends up fueling her fire and it escaltes into rages. Those I can not accept.

Truth is not a moving target for most of us nons, and it only leads to feeling crazy if I "admit" (not a truth) to doing something I didn't even do/think/etc. And it tends to just feed into the altered and varying truth of my loved one with BPD. It doesn't help for us to compromise our reality in an attempt to smooth things over with the BPD, we're just joining their "what I feel is what is true" changeable version of reality.

I feel much more sane now that I am good with myself, in knowing what I have done or not done, thought or not thought, and am willing to stand for it. That doesn't mean I try to convince my pwBPD of my thoughts or deeds, that just joins into their circular arguing that goes nowhere and wastes my valuable brain-space. It means that when I am faced with being told what I was thinking I can say neutrally, "you can't know what i'm thinking." And if told I did something to him in a purposely hurtful way I can say (neutrally) "that was not my intention." And then I can leave it, refer back to what I said with "I told you what I meant" neutrally and not engage in their mind-bending verbal gymnastics.

Altering my own truth to fit the BPD's "truth" of the moment leads to craziness and depression. I can't go there anymore. It's not my job to justify their beliefs, and I won't be untrue to myself anymore. Why make myself unhappy just because they are unhappy?

Chipher13,

I totally understand where you're coming from.  I face those rages too.  It's a nightmare.  Yet owning up to things I didn't do just goes to show how far I've plummeted to try and stay in a relationship with her. 

I own up to the things I've actually done wrong to her and have no problem apologizing for them.  I've apologized many times to her.  It's just that this woman has a long list of offenses against me that just plain aren't true and she constantly holds them against me.  She badmouths me all over the place telling people what I've allegedly done and how evil a human being I am.  Then she demands that I stop acting like a child, take responsibility for myself, own up to everything I've done and acknowledge the tremendous pain I've caused her.

These false accusations have made our relationship so difficult that I seriously doubt we will be able to recover this time.  And if we do get back together, I know it will be more of the same and that she will never truly forgive me for what she thinks I've done to her.  She will always bring these things up and use them against me at some point down the road.

In order for her to view things the way they really are, I'd have to get inside her brain and rewire everything.  Obviously that's not going to happen.  No matter how much I try to reason and rationalize with her, she always thinks she's right and no matter what evidence is presented, refuses to change her mind.

It's total madness.

The problem with this approach (in a nutshell - trying to seek peace at all costs) is that it never allows the BPD to sooth themselves.  We never get any peace because the behaviors escalate.  They use this emotional abuse as a tool to make them feel better as an outlet for stress.  By enabling the behavior, we are actually doing them a disservice and allowing their behavior to get worse.

Have you read the lessons?  There are tools to escape this rollercoaster and return to some sanity.  ---->  Check them out  (on the right sidebar). 

I don't believe it is healthy to admit to wrongs you did not commit.  Validation focus on someone's feelings more that the event they are describing.  Their reality may not match yours, and it doesn't have to.  This might help:

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation)

BA --

If it's any consolation, everything you're writing about happened to me, too. Your post describes to a tee what my exBPDgf consistently attempted to do to me, every single time we had some big blowout.

Unlike you, the only thing I didn't do was to ever admit to anything I didn't do -- and that's more out of my own basic sheer stubbornness, on the one hand, and my own childhood issues connected to being held accountable for things my younger siblings did. As the oldest child, I was always told that I needed to set an example -- not unusual. And I was also regularly put in the "watcher" role -- and then made to feel responsible if something happened.

Just yesterday, in a completely pointless (given that the r-ship is over) and maddeningly yet predictable circular email exchange, my ex used the following phrase, verbatim (her caps), repeatedly in many emails:


It's as stunning as it is sad, I know. Even though I knew it was futile, I still tried to find a way to get her to step back from the exchange and just look at her own words -- how could she NOT see that she was doing to me EXACTLY what she was accusing me of doing -- which was, in a nutshell, taking no responsibility for the issues in the r-ship (b/c I refuse to validate her accusations that I am an abuser) or the break-up (I left her). When I suggested this, she accused me of "playing the victim" (apparently b/c I indicated that this is the kind of repeated behavior that led me to decide to leave the r/s) -- even though I pointed out to her that I very don't see myself as a victim. After all, I left the r-ship b/c I was no longer willing to accept the emotional abuse. To which she responded:



Have you considered that maybe it's time you started listening to your heart, and the advice of your friends and therapist?

Hang in there. Sounds like you're close to coming out of the fog.

That would make sense now wouldn't it, but I'm not listening to common sense.  If I listened to the advice of my therapist, my 20 or so family/friends who have all told me to cut ties and flee... .and to my heart that tells me this won't work then I'd be in good shape.

Well A LOT has happened since I've last posted.  She didn't want to hear the contents of the letter (which I ripped up later).  We talked on the phone and she accused me of lying about everything and broke things off with me... .again.  I kept at it, and finally got her to agree to meet up with me in person and talk some more.  Things went well for about an hour, but then she suddenly burst into tears and starting screaming at me, blaming me for causing her not to love me anymore.  Other people, total strangers, consoled her and gave me dirty looks, without knowing my side of the story or what's really going on.  Once again I was the vilian.

Then she had to walk a friend home so she kissed me and said she'd be back.  She never came back.  She called me an hour later to break things off with me... .again... .and went on a Crystal Meth smoking binge.  She said she did this because she couldn't stand the sight of my face and didn't want to be in my presence anymore.  We picked up our conversation again hours later after she had made out with her drug dealer (wonderful) but couldn't have sex for lack of condoms. Once again she told me we were done and to stop contacting her.   

Then she called me a few hours later and said she wanted to give me one last chance to save the relationship AND I HAD TO AGREE TO GO TO COUPLES COUNSELING or she was permanently walking away (again).  She wants to go immediately and pressured me into calling my therapist to schedule a meeting.  A meeting where she plans to tell him how I dissociate like a serial killer and need lots of help.  It's a meeting I don't want to have... .and my therapist doesn't want to have either. 

I'm at risk of losing new friends I've made because they know there's a train wreck coming and don't want to see it.  I can't blame them.  They also don't want to be involved with someone who's in a toxic relationship.  I don't want to lose them because they are healthy people and the kind that could help me get out of this fog for good.

Ok, BA. Time to make a choice, I think. I know it's not easy.

Do yourself a favor. Try to read your own words about this whole situation -- the words you've shared with us here -- but pretend you're listening to a friend tell you about what's going on in his or her life.

What would you think?If they asked you for advice, what would you tell them? Would you have any hesitation at all?

Hang in there.

And regardless of what choices YOU make?  How can you take care of yourself here?  Are there some things that you can do to step away from the drama of this situation?  Do you read?  Can you meet up with an old friend for coffee?  What are other ways you can get your own balance back?

I really don't feel like doing anything right now after she just called and broke things off with me again.  My heart literally hurts over it.  I got my hopes up high that things would work out again and she just busted my balloon.

A friend of mine was supposed to come and see me today, but hasn't showed.  She may come later, but I don't know if she will or not. 

I do understand the pain you are going through,and I'm sorry you are hurting.  I broke up and got back together with my ex about 10 times.  It was terribly confusing, but it got to where I came to expect it, so I was anxious all the time.  

I'm not going to tell you what you need to do because I don't know, and this is the Staying Board, and I am no longer with my ex.  I do suggest you ask yourself what you need for YOU.  Forget about her for a minute.  What do you need?

I thought about this article too:

US: "Relationship Recycling" - What is it? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=95860.0)

Peace to you.  :)

Hello and welcome, BA!

I'd just like to point out that choosing not to accept abuse from her and choosing not to admit to things you didn't do is not the same as choosing to leave / end the relationship.

If she decides that she doesn't want a r/s where you don't do these things, that is HER choice, not yours... .

I know I found that I couldn't be happy living in a world where I believed the things my wife said which didn't match what I was seeing, feeling, and experienced. Or acquiesced to demands based on that. I also found out that I didn't have to convince her that her world wasn't that way--just that I wasn't going to play by those rules with her.

I was very lucky, my wife went through some personal hell and put me through a bit more, but ultimately decided to live in a world that works for me.

Hang in there!

 GK 

From my experience, living with someone with BPD requires a lot of patience and understanding. Something that I wasn't prepared for honestly. There are good resources out there, and there's one that holds true for me is that it's always about their feelings, not us or others. This is something that they have no or very little control over. Think of it as an illness where there isn't a quick cure for it. To use an analogy, I once had a persistent cough that wouldn't go away, and many people had told me to see a doctor or take something for it, but it wouldn't stop even though I had tried everything I could. They wanted me to fix it or get it fixed, the doctors couldn't and I really tried to stop, someone even told me if I tried not to cough it would. BPD certainly isn't like a cough, but the point is that I don't think anyone who has it wants it and would give anything not to have it. The way I see it, accepting your partner's disability and living with it, is not going to be easy and there will be sacrifices to be made if we really want to be by their side and go through it with them. It can happen to anybody and sometimes (I had my fair share of thinking of quitting) we have to put ourselves in their shoes (sympathy and empathy) and accept the situation (truth). Having said this, I don't mean encouraging their behavior or outbursts.

Hasn't anyone had a bad cough before? What happens if you just couldn't stop it?

BA, you said:


Um, why did you think things would work out again?

I've had this happening a lot, but I came to think of a related behavior that my wife engages in that caused me much confusion and headache;

She comes to me and asks me a question. Often a suggestion, family issues. She wants us to do this and that or whatever together. I don't. She's disappointed and furious. I peacefully explain why I disagree with her, but being the way she is the issue is never resolved. She then retires hurt and asks the very same questions a few weeks later (as if we haven't discussed it before!). She can repeat this time and time again and of course I give an increasingly irritated and frustrated response each time, at which she seems genuinenly surprised and hurt. This can go on for months (up to a year!) and escalate horribly.

I have tried to talk to her about this behavior but she has a hard time discussing her own behaviour, but from the little she's been able to articulate I think she sees it this way;

When she's in the right - and when the feels she's in the right, she is in the right - then she sees no reason to back down. The reason I don't agree with her is that she haven't managed to get her message across to me.

I've tried - without success - to ban this destructive behavior from our relationship. When she brings something up "a second time" I calmly tell her that I've told her what I think and that I have no intention of taking the same argument/quarrell once again, and without exception she gets upset with me for being "angry" ("angry" meaning "disagreeing" whe's when she's in that kind of mood) and then picking a fight out of that. Oh, it's not easy I tell you... .

Temporary insanity lol. 

I thought she was willing to try and work through the issues we had when she demanded I agree to go to couples counseling with her.  It may have been wishful thinking on my part, but she had her moments when she seemed like she still really loved me.  I know that I loved her... .and still do.  I was not willing to give up on her and I was hoping she was not willing to give up on me.

I was wrong.

She gave up on me.  We never went to couples counseling.  We never resolved our differences.  She broke things off with me in a cruel and painful way.  She went back to doing hardcore drugs and having sex with anyone who crosses her path... .especially if they have drugs.

I am left heartbroken and alone.  She is off making her life even worse and will likely die from a drug overdose someday.  It's tragic.  It's sad.  It's reality.

Badly Abused,

that is tragic, all of it. My therapist has worked hard with me to realize that I cannot have power over anyone else's actions, they choose. One thing I said to her about my uBPDh was "it freaks me out because when he was really struggling he'd say he couldn't live without me and he'd just kill himself" and she'd say, "well, he might." The stuff we want to "save" people from is never something we can change for them, I suppose, since all we can change is ourselves. I've always had that desire to save others, or in the case of my husband, just be entirely and totally codependent so he'd always get his way! Things are changing these days, i'm working on being my own person, a separate entity, with her own wishes and needs and such (even if they go unnoticed, I have them! hahaha!)

you said
sounds about right! lol lol

Hergestridge, I think most of us on here are familiar with that dance and have dealt (or are dealing) with some version of that behavior. It's difficult because in the pwBPD's head, how they feel is really really true at that moment. I know I see with my own uBPDh that he can tell me the very next day that he doesn't really feel whatever way he said yesterday, but as yet he's unable to stop the rant that goes with his negative feelings. It must be really difficult in their heads! And it's definitely hard on our end since it seems we're talking different languages entirely.

All of you made very good points, and Waverider's words especially stuck with me!  It is indeed often our own stubbornness that is our undoing.  "We know what we know, they believe what they believe."  If we can just remain calm and emotionally detached ourselves, we don't have to keep arguing our point of view.  We can just disengage and keep our sanity.  My 2 cents! :)

OH wise words indeed! Now that I've finally realized what triggers me to forget to disengage I think I may do better. I realized after the most recent rant from my uBPDh that even though I initially disengaged, seeing that it was going nowhere, when he followed me upstairs ten minutes later he said a few words that triggered my inner preschooler.  :) He said something along the lines of, "So you've come up here to pout?" And my little girl said in her head, "I'M not a BABY! and YOU can't CALL me one!" And we're back to the races.

I told my preschool teacher daughter about my realization and she just laughed--seriously, I just need to remember to pull up my big girl panties when he starts!

I felt foolish indeed. I need to repeat this as a mantra: ":)isengage and keep my sanity."

lol

Oh my god, this makes so much sense now. It isn't just consistency with people, emotions, etc. it is physical consistencies as well. If I organize the house and clean, within a day SO is home and it is like a bomb goes off in the house. I don't know how it happens, but it does. He tells me, "I can't keep a routine, it is in my nature, I can't change." This makes me wonder if trying to keep a routine is just too painful and overwhelming to him. Sadly, if he would try to have some sort of organization in his life, many of his stressors that act as triggers would go away.