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So I got myself in a corner again with DD27. Offered to support her in being on home detention, and the court agreed to this. 60 days. And 2 years of probation. Assessment by PACE program. She has to comply with their recommendations even if not accepted into their program. She should qualify -- if she will go. So this was best outcome, but I was not feeling really 'comfortable'. DD has been gone last 3 weeks with street friends except a few days. She came home yesterday only to shower. I met her in parking lot of court house this morning.

I am a foolish woman, loving momma. I need your help in how to move forward. Things fell apart quickly after the hearing, in the courthouse cafe. She was giving me a hard time about wanting to look at her papers - though I just wanted the bond paper to get my refund. DD stated to me that she would be having any friends she wanted at the house, whenever she wants. My response - same house rules apply - maybe a friend can come during the day when gd is at school. WHEW! she got loud. I tried the deep breathing. I tried to think of some way to respond to settle her down. I would not give in about the friends. They make the house feel unsafe to gd, dh, me, and everyone within sight in the neighborhood.

It is not 'party house detention'. It is HOUSE ARREST.

I walk away to talk with the lawyer, that maybe this was not going to work out. DD tried to stop me, yelling threats all the while as she pushed me back, shoved me into a wall, etc. I walked into the courtroom, got the lawyer's attention and waited in the hall/waiting area. DD would not be quiet or back off. A sheriif was there by then asking her to calm down. The lawyer comes out saying the judge can hear here in the courtroom, she needs to quiet down. The lawyer states that the sentence is given. If DD does not get the required set up for home detention, probation and the fines/fees she will get summoned back to court. GEEZ, another long delay in her getting on with it.

Now she wants her stuff from my car. I state that I do not feel safe to walk with DD to my car, offer to drive up so she can get her stuff. She will not let me leave. So a sheriff walks with us to the car, DD gets her backpack out of trunk, and I drive off.

I returned to courthouse to retreive my bond money at the clerks office. Drive home. Talk briefly to dh on phone - he kind of says "I told you home detention was not a good idea". Then why did he let us go ahead with offering it. We talked about it first!

I need your words. That I will endure this pain. I will get over feeling like a failed mom. That DD will be OK.

I want to contact her. Do not know what, if anything, I can say. How long to wait. I want to detach from her, and stay connected. Is this even possible at this stage? When she settles down, she knows where the probation office is. That is where she needs to check in today or tomorrow. Maybe she can get a friend to walk there with her. It is only a few blocks from the park where they all hang out.

I have to refocus my energy on home - on gd. She will be home soon. She needs a calm grandma. She is a young child with potential to recover from the trauma and abuse that has been a part of our lives. I have to keep a recovery focus. And DD cannot be a part of this in our home. This is so clear to me in hindsight, or real-sight. How I get caught up in my fantasy-sight.

qcr  

So here is some help for me, from another of my posts https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=208242.0;topicseen

I get it that DD has serious issues with substance use and mental illness. And she is not in a place to be able to accept treatment. She will soon be either in jail for 60-90 days (365 days is the longest possiblity open to the judge this week) or in our home under house arrest. Or some combination of these. She has intermittently worked to be connected to gd, but I realize recently that it ME that gd needs every single moment in her life to feel safe, secure and then loved. She cannot feel the love until she can feel safe.

DD cannot feel the love until she feels safe - this is rare for her so she projects, self-medicates, avoids. The neighbors and some others cannot feel the love as they also are filled with fear. Often I cannot feel the love as I am overwhlemed by fears.  

My new favorite quote: "According to the Stress Model, all behavior arises from a state of stress; and between the behavior and the stress is the presence of a primary emotion. There are only two primary emotions: Love and Fear. It is through the expression, processing and understanding of the primary emotion that you can calm the stress and diminish the behavior"  quote from Dr. Bryan Post's model in "Beyond Consequences, Vol.1" by Heather Forbes and Bryan Post.

How can I find a way to get out of my fear so I can contact DD? Is DD too deep in her fears to be reached?

So here is another quote, that gives me something to think about as well. From "Help for Billy... . ", Heather Forbes, on the very last page of this book about encouraging our struggling kids in a school environment.

"When you have been able to fully and unconditionally deliver Help for Billy, your work is complete. There is nothing else to do. It is then up to Billy ro receive the help and make the needed changes.

Sometimes Billy can change, sometimes he cannot. Or perhaps he simply is not ready to change and it is not the right timing. At this point love is about letting go and stepping back to give Billy his right to free will. There is nothing else to do but love him, create boundaries for him, and continue diong your best because your best is good enough. Let love take over from here and be kind and loving to yourself, always."

I need to wait. DD can do this for herself. I can respond if she reaches out to me again - with non-judgmental love and boundaries. I will be true to myself - I am a good person, with good values. Just as DD is a good person, with good values. Expressed in ways opposed to mine -- that is why the boundaries are needed.

Now, just do it!

qcr  

Hi qcr

Love for a child is never foolish, please do not berate or blame yourself .  A mother's love cannot be denied and is beyond logic or reason.

The pain you feel is shared by all of us here.  If we are not experiencing it ourselves in this moment, then we have in moments past, or will in moments yet to come. It is an exquisite agony from which we cannot escape and is a constant reminder of the unbreakable bond we have with our deeply loved, troubled children.

Go outside, look to the sky.  Feel the magnitude of life and accept your part within it.  The pain we feel now is but a small part of the life there is.  Love fiercely and feel no shame or failure from it.

Now go back to your gd and know you are still in the fight.  

Keep believing in your fantasies for without hope what are we?

With love

Wow, qcr... . That's pretty stressful! When does the home detention start? So, that means she actually has to physically stay in your home for so many hours per day, or all the time, or ?  And, then that program is going to be supervised by the PACE program? Is that anything like the Dual Diagnosis program you were hoping for? If so, is this some sort of light at the end of the tunnel? And, when is it all going to be put into place? It sounds confusing to me, so please forgive all my questions!

I'm really sorry this is causing you so much tension... . I hope she's able to regulate again and understand she needs to comply to be able to move forward. For you, your husband and your granddaughter~~and for her, too. It seems like there's some sort of supervision involved; is there a contact person (like a Social Worker or Therapist?) who will be there for you? Like an outpatient Therapist? You need support; I really hope this home detention program will provide that. I'd love to hear more about how the nuts and bolts of this works; maybe there's a tool as part of this program that will help you deal, and help your daughter learn how to comply. Hang in there, qcarolr... . you will endure. Because you have to... . and we will help you   

EDH - electronic home detention. It is wearing an ankle bracelet that triggers  a sensor in black box hooked into landline connected to EDH office at the county jail. DD did this for 45 days last fall. She has about 150 foot range. She is allowed to be away from black box for appointments approved by the EDH monitoring deputy sheriff. They will come by randomly to take a breathlizer - ie no one bringing prohibited stuff. Appointment breaks last time included a 2 hour daily window to get outside - walk dogs, go to store, etc. She was even allowed an extra 2 hours on saturdays to go to puppy class.

It is jail outside of jail. So in theory you can have whoever you want at your house. This is source of current issue with DD - wanting to change the rules since she cannot go out to hang with friends. Dh and I are not moving on this rule. Having homeless people in/out of our house sets off all kinds of internal alarms with our neighbors. It is disruptive to gd. And she wants company when awake during the night -- we will not have guests in our home for her. I offered her work out a day time visit while gd at school. That just really set her off more.

She has to call and set up an appointment to get the ankle bracelet at the jail. She also has to check-in with adult probation to get new supervising PO and set up assessment for PACE. Yes, this is a dual dx program. And yes, if she will participate it is will be good for her. This is managed by her PO.

The public defender lawyer has been very helpful in accepting information from me to help get DD this sentence. Now she is in a conflicted place since Dd and I are at odds. She kept saying "I am DD's lawyer. I cannot help with this personal disagreement". She was trying to get DD to calm down so she did not get arrested again. The lawyer asked the sheriff standing by to walk us out to the car -- to get us out of the building.

The harassment charges are more serious than the DWAI, with larger potential penalties - jail up to 2 years and large fines. She has lots of court costs and fees from the existing charges today. She has to go to clerk's office and ask for indigent waiver to get reductions. They are $1500 for each charge right now. And I am paying down on the $1300 from the DWAI. Not making payments on your plan is a violation of probation too.

DD will have daily appointments to go to. She will actually not have much day-time to visit. We are not willing to have people at our house. Maybe this EDH was just not very well thought out by me.

The lawyer asked if there was somewhere else she could stay on EDH. Told her no one else in family wants DD in their home. She will be on street if not at our house - or couch hopping. 60 days without money to pay rent is not going to happen.

I just want to sit beside her, hold her hand, let her know if she can take one moment at a time she can get through this. She did call me -- I hung up when she started calling me names. She feels it was all my fault - she did nothing wrong, I was out of control barging into the in session court room.

Well, I felt very very threatened and wanted someone to intervene. And guess what - they did. And they were all around DD asking her to calm down. All they asked me to do was move away -- which I had been trying to do but DD kept getting in my way. Dh can't believe they did not cuff her and take her away. He is really angry that I had to endure this today. And that we have to endure this with her in our home.

It is so messed up inside me. I understand that she is dysregulated and not able to regain her self-control. Not able to make decisions that involve thinking or reasoning. And I will not be bullied or abused - I will leave the area. If she is on EDH, I cannot ask her to leave.

And I have to make the safety and stability for gd the priority.

so danged complicated, if I let it be. DD can hold it together here, or hold it together in jail. I need contact with someone in this system to give me and dh support. but who?

qcr

Dear qcr:  No smart thoughts from my part of the world.  But will send    and prayers for the best possible outcome for all of your family.  Swampped

Boy~~That sounds so complicated, qcr... . Can her PD maybe give you some names of professionals for support and advice? I'm not sure how things work where you live; my son needed a PD for legal issues involved with his flame-out this past February, and I do know that if I'd found myself in the kind of situation you are in, he is probably the first person I'd call to start getting help. I do think you need someone in your corner, here... . If not the PD, maybe someone involved with PACE?

I think your boundaries regarding friends in the house are fair and good for everyone, even your daughter. She doesn't need them for her recovery (of course, she will not see it that way). You, your husband and granddaughter need to come first, unfortunately. DD is not in a place to see that she's causing such disturbances, and unless she becomes more emotionally regulated she won't see it, either. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make her understand! It's so horrible to watch our kids do things that are destructive to themselves and everyone around them, and not be able to help them see it... .

I appreciate you telling us all that information; I had no idea how home detention would work. Now that she's got it--and it does sound like there were many agencies and professionals involved to put it all together--there is no way to make any kinds of changes I guess... . So somehow she has to work within that structure, and somehow you have to live within it, too. She has so many hoops to jump through; if she misses one or more, then what happens? Does she automatically go to jail? I know that my son's ADD and other DXs would make it hard for him to comply with stuff like that without help from me and my husband. I can only imagine how difficult it would be if he rejected our help or didn't want to comply.

You have my prayers and good thoughts for light to surround you with comfort and peace... . I just wish I could say the exact right words that would make you say: "That's IT! That's what we should do!" But I have no idea how to navigate this minefield with you... . but I'm here for you with support and compassion. I do know what it's like to have a kid tangled up in a legal mess without the mental health capabilities to handle it on their own... . Take care of yourself. We all love you here   

It is tangled. I have been here before and am stronger in my values and boundaries than before. I also have much greater clarity on what gd needs from me.

Dh said to me how he does not like all the effort helping DD get connected in the programs is going to take for me. I responded that I have already accepted this part several weeks ago. He kind of nodded as he went up stairs. In working with the PD on this sentence, I knew that DD would need me to at least keep her organized and get to appts. in the beginning. I am hoping she gets some of this support from the program. That is the intent - for her to get all her needs met with a single case worker. I will do all in my power to support her in getting into PACE.

It is the EDH part that is the issue that we have to work out the rules on. And jail is a very unhealthy enviroment for her from many directions. I want to find a path to  make this work. Dd will have to be willing to accept some changes in her life to be in our home. Or she will have to accept some changes in her life to be in jail. Or she can run away to another state with someone and be abandoned and alone away from home.

I will text her tomorrow after gd is off to school. I will offer a window to meet with her and talk - maybe dh will go with me as he is off work tomorrow too. I will offer to go with her to check in with the agencies at the courthouse. I know she wants someone to go with her - there is a lot of fear in this. The fear is what drives the behaviors. The fears that drive the dysregulatoin. I got lost in my own fears today. My choices could have been from a calmer place - perhaps the result would have been different.

DD's brief call tonight shows me she is beginning the process of over-writing her inner story of today. To shift blame to me in some ways. To entice me to come back to help her in other ways. She is offering that she just wanted to talk about the friend options and was not demanding them as I recall.  Perhaps we can each write the story to make things work out tomorrow. Save face. make peace. move on.

This helps me so very much. Processing all this thinking and feeling here with you all. Dh justs gets angry along with me today -- or more angry than me in a  very protective of his wifey way. Sweet when I write it here. Thanks.

qcr  

Yeah... . I've come to see that fears were the drivers of my own son's troubles; his biggest fear he tells us is/was his fear of disappointing us. And our fears for his safety and well-being were what caused us to be invalidating (though we didn't know it at the time... . Invalidating? Validating? What the heck is that?) and hyper-vigilant with him, driving his fears of disappointing us! What a hamster wheel of confusion and trauma for all of us... .

It sounds like she is starting to regulate again, and the two of you are doing the dance again. I know that dance; you were perfectly precise in describing it... . " Overwriting the story of today, write the story to make things work out tomorrow. Save face. Make peace. Move on." It's how we figure out how to live with BPD. It's how we survive, prior to proper treatment and recovery/remission. I understand the dance, and why you must do it tonight... . Someday there will be a different dance, a better dance. But for tonight? We understand, and dance with you to keep you company   

Here is the text I sent tonight:

Can we figure this out tomorrow morning? Go check in everywhere? Wehave to work together as a family. CAn we keep stability for gd in mind too? Stress leads to fear to impulsive behaviors from each of us. Let go of blaming to feel safe and find solutions. This is my place in this moment.

Tomorrow will be another start. Praying for the good to come. For the "strength to endure the unendurable that flows over into joy". God can give us this strength.

qcr  

ps. I am regulating better too.  :)

I love your text  |iiii

And I think it will soothe your daughter's heart, and that tomorrow will be a better day.

Good job  :)

and good night, qcr... .

(you sound more regulated   )

qcr,

I just wanted to to give you a quick hug.    I have been thinking about you, knowing that your dd had court, yesterday.  My heart really goes out to you. Given her behavior towards you after the leniency provided, I would have hoped that she would be greatful and very humble. 

Can you get a case manager for her, to take a load of stress off you?  Helping with getting her to appointments.  My dd's case manager helps with some of that.

I will be back to say more.  I need to go to work for now.    But, you are in my thougts and prayers.   

 

peaceplease

DD gave positive reply to this text last night. I was hopeful for a better day. Not to be - DD call at 7:15 am filled with blaming. Told her I had to get gd on bus by 7:30 then could call her back. She said "she is old enough to get ready and on the bus by herself!". DD seems so jealous of her little girl.

She thought she was violated from conflict in court and had warrant. Tried to explain this not the case - she will only be violated if does do what is on sentence sheet. Check in with PO to start assessment, check in with clerk to set up payment of fees, call to get ankle bracelet. I just got a landline order placed for the monitoring equipment (we only have cell phones). It will turn on Tuesday next week. So if she gets the ankel bracelet it will not be active until Tuesday.

She is overwhelmed. I get this. I just seem so triggered myself to respond from my heart. Have need for her to acknowledge the sacrifices we are making to allow her to stay out of jail and get the structured, free probation she needs to be successful. Once she gets accepted into the PACE program there will be a case manager for her. Then to figure out a bus schedule for her daily checkin so I can have a life. I was aware of all this - I accept these challenges to my schedule and time and money. Just would help so much to not be blamed somehow for her bad choices. Geez -- I was not even there when any of the 3 incidents happened.

Got her home to shower - she hasn't done that yet. Dh is home today and told her I needed to go my 1pm. So need to go see if she is ready.

Thanks for all your support.

qcr  

several things come to me in my self and home

gd has regressed to a very hypervigilant state - fear high of setting off her mom. she does not want DD in our house. dd calls it 'yelling' that scares her. so grateful for the friends next door she has been able to play with after school and much of today.

DD is in a very hostile state. my fear based reaction to her demands to have her friends at our house in courthouse is "unforgivable". just one more to add to her list. she was hostile yesterday when I was offering to take her to meet with check in with probation and clerk at courthouse. luckily dh was home to meet gd bus. i bought dd bus passes, dropped her off in front of courthouse. she had paperwork with what she needed to do and would not show it to me. trying not to mind read her motives. she came home on bus at 10.

dd is sleeeping - pattern is to sleep a couple days. she comes up to eat and growl at me.

i am in a state of fear based feeling and thinking. i know this, yet feel unable to move from it. too many people around to really do mindfulness activity other than closing my eyes and breathing. maybe this is an excuse.

interrupted again.

qcr

Feel trapped.

I meant GD is afraid of her mom yelling. This is how she describes her fear. And her fear that I will say something to set her mom off, or I will yell back at her mom. Fear that I will be the one to go to jail. I am so very sad about this. She is unable to go to sleep tonight. Is already in our bed, waiting for dh and I to come.


DD said she her appt for home detention is Oct 3rd - a month away. To allow time to get money together for it she told the deputy that does supervision. She has no money - we are loaning it to her. We can pay now. Her pattern - put it off as long as possible. No sense that this increases the anxiety levels and hostility.  She sees probation on Monday. Wonder what they will say about this. Trying to stay out of it. She has asked me to drive her. I will try my best to be a good listener and be validating, starting tomorrow.

IMHO, her biggest fear is abandonment. We will not allow her friends in our home, for many good reasons that she does not accept. She struggles to be in our home without a friend. There is not another place for her to live. Her many domestic violence reports and charges limit her access to most housing programs. Or she refuses to work with case managers for programs.

I have to step out of her way and tolerate the hostility and threats in this process. How to get her to find a roommate situation. And for us to be able to afford her share of some rent, plus the other. Or we can just drop her off with nothing - feels cruel. Yet her actions, so justified to her, feel so cruel to us.

She does not accept that her behaviors are harmful to gd. This is flipped as being fear from my angry responses. And DD does not accepted my silence either - increases her attempts to prod me into an angry response. Such a horrible vicious circle.

I have asked everywhere I can think of for many months to get help getting dd out of our house. she just keeps coming back - walks up from the bus stop and is at our door. Ready to make a big scene, that in her mind is all my fault for being such awful family, and this turns neighbors away from interaction with us, and most tragically from gd.

ANd gd has been doing so very good all summer - with dd mostly living homeless with her friends. With neighborhood being open to her again.

No support from dh. he justs wants us all to keep walking on eggshells. he and gd do this well. i cannot tolerate it, and react to dd, and all h*ll breaks loose.

What do I do? What do I do?

qcr :'(

Did call Dd's lawyer with this distress. She most likely will not respond to me - confidentiality now that dd is hostile toward me. Even if she wants to help.

I will not interfere with the PO or the EHD deputy. Should I write to the judge about this shift in DD's attitudes in our home? The truth about our having custody of gd and dd not really "a single parent that needs to be with her daughter" as the lawyer stated in court. Or maybe he knows of all this.

If DD knows I contact anyone, I am fearful she will follow through with her threats of 'harm to us and our house'. She will not do it, but can get someone else. Are these threats real? She made them before. We have no-contact order before. I was miserable and re-established contact. Do I pursue this again? Dh would not particpate in this before.

Guess I need to make appt with my T next week, and submerse myself in prayerful meditation. Maybe I will gain the strength to do whatever it is that will protect us. I hope DD gets rested up and leaves to be with her friends. She does not bring them here - she knows we will call the police for them to leave.

Dh is really angry they did not arrest dd when the big scene was made Thursday in the courthouse. Her lawyer really protected her from this by asking sheriiff deputy to walk us to my car - dd got her stuff and left.

I will stop my rambling whining now. Going to bed with help of tranqulizers to sleep. Apprehensive about tomorrow since dh at work all day. He does buffer me from dd.

qcr

And biopsy on small sore on my nose last Monday was positve for basal cell cancer. Dermatologist said sugery department will be contacting me. Need to remove more. Impact on gd is my biggest concern. have not shared with anyone other than dh.

qcr

I am so sorry. This is hell for you to live through. How would you feel about calling the police and having her put in jail

When she makes threats? That is really the safest place for her and everyone. She could get therapy in there.

I got some rest last night and can think more clearly this morning. I made a time line for what the current plan is based on what DD told me yesterday.

1. DD needs to live independent of our household so she can live with her friends without our judgment.

2. We have to provide the best possible envirommnet for gd. This means DD living somewhere else.

3. We have struggled with this conflict for years.

4. DD best chance to live independent is to get her SSI.

5. The SSI appeal hearing is set for Oct 28; 7 weeks from tomorrow.

6. DD best chance of positive result from hearing is to NOT BE IN JAIL - ie. go to hearing via jail video conference or in handcuffs.

7. The SSI hearing is what motivated us to offer EHD to DD

I made a timeline of all this to get a better picture. It does not matter when she starts the EHD. What matters is for her to comply with all conditions of her probation to stay out of jail. The only person with control of that outcome is DD. I have to find the strength to endure whatever this outcome is. I have to let go of the SSI process. That too is only in her control.

I will try to find a time when gd is out of the house or at school to listen to what DD says she needs. I have to be in a very mindful place that I am OK whatever the outcome for DD is each day.

I have to be willing to endure whatever reaction she has to our boundary of not friends in our home. Offer to help her pay for a roommate situation, if she can find one with a landline for her EHD.

Gotta go.

qcr

That sounds like a very good plan. Let go and let God. Her being in your home is not whats best for you, gd or dh. Let the chips fall where they may.  This ia such a cruel disease.

Dear, dear qcr: Where to begin?  First of all, I hope you got some good sleep last night,, and that your dh is homeby now to take some of the stress off you.  The basal cell---will a dermatologist excise it, or will it be a plastic surgeon?  I trust your insurance will cover it.  I am at my sister's home right now, in the Northeast, while she recovers from a mastectomy for breast cancer, and while we await the final pathologiy and treatment recommendations.  So my mind has been much on cancer recently, and I am impressed by how great a role stress plays in it.  YOu need to factor that in, as you plan for the next several weeks.  I think I hear you thinking that if you can hold on with dd at home for SEVEN MORE WEEKS, you will have done all you can for her.  I would wonder if that might be reasonable, in light of how things have gone since the court hearing last week?  How much more can you help?  And at what price?  I am in no position to say anything about "doing" for an adult child with problems---we continue to support gd4, her uBPDmother and our divorced son, so take this with a grain of salt.  But you need to take care of yourself, and you cannot live like this for seven more weeks, qcr!   Not with any quality of life, or stability for your gd and your dh, and it seems that if you can just "let go", then God will take care of your dd.  Not the way you or your dh or anyone else might want, perhaps, but it seems to me He can figure these things out if I just step out of the way and "let Him".  And it is amazing what happens that I couldn't ever think of! 

You are often in my thoughts and prayers, as are your dh, your gd and your dd.  Please take care of yourself, and know that you are not being selfish in doing so.  To the contrary, they all, including your dd, need you to stay around and harass them for many more years!  Sending         your way.   Swampped

Dear qcr,

I am sorry I wasn't here for you earlier. I had been thinking of you over the weekend and how it all went... .I was not expecting this ... .I don't know why not, I think I was hoping so hard that it would work out better than it has.

Of your system there I can offer no insight, it does bamboozle me.

But for you I can hold you and reassure you that you are a good person struggling with a terrible situation.    You can stand clear headed and strong, you have that capacity within you. To be able to do that, take dibdob's early advice and every so often, just step out the doors face the sky and gain strength from the universe. Breathe evenly and deeply. Take a minute and think only of that. Take 5 mins if you can. Then you can return to the chaos and navigate your way through.

You need a plan. And you are working on it. If you have a plan, you are on track. Stay true to your values, then the boundaries will follow. You need the boundaries to protect your values, your integrity, your gd.

I understand you feel responsible for your dd, but I don't think you are. You can support your dd, but not enable her. Dd cannot see the effect of her behaviour on others, but that is not your responsibility - you cannot change that, only she can. Yes, she is stuck in this terrible disorder, so she needs you to model balanced behaviour, she needs you to be calm and in control of yourself and your world. She knows she needs therapy and she rejects it - and we understand that and why it happens. If your dd is in therapy you can work better with her, but if she is not all you can do is accept what is, validate and keep boundaries sound.

If your dd does not accept the court's decision, that is her responsibility. Don't put yourself between their decision and your dd - that puts you in the crossfire. You can stand beside her, it is not helpful to anyone if you are her shield. If your dd does not accept your boundaries, step aside and let her feel the consequences for that.

I do hope things ease up for you and your poor family. I am sending you powerful love and positive energy.

Vivek    

qcr,

Ditto to Vivek 's reply.

And, you being positive for cancer, should change everything!  You need to take care of yourself, please!  Do not let your dd bully you, anymore.  You are all prisoners to her.

I truly empathize with much of what you are saying.  I have been walking on eggshells, myself.  I have been pulling out books and refreshing.  I can recall when I would not take dd's words, personally.   It was so much easier when I was in T.  I realize that I need to get back and fast.  My dd is angry at the world. Even, my sister is black now.  My dd believed that she always peed perfume.

I have to stop here.  Have to go pick up uBPDd now.

More later... .

lovesjazz - yes, jail is physically safer for dh, gd and I. It is not a good place for DD medically. Hi carb diet; she is pre-diabetic. She is MRSA carrier and gets infections with stress; jail not responsive and this leads to isolation from others in her pod as well as jail staff, possibly even after the an infection is healed. If not treated quickly can lead to serious consequences needing hospitalization. Her medicaid does not cover medical while in jail. Another reason we offered home detention in meetings with Dd's lawyer. DD was in her 'good personality' until the last week before her hearing, then she stayed out on streets with friends.

swamped - basal cell skin cancer stays in the skin. it can spread there though. so not life threatening. Since the dermtologist that did biopsy (took the surface piece off side of my nose - little sore that did not heal for past 6 months) is sending a referral to the surgery dept. I am assuming will be plastic surgeon. I will ask for this if not offered. Will also ask for taking a layer at time with pathology to minimize. And if I need a rebuild, well they will do that too. DD comment when I mentioned it today was, "don't dwell on it mom". Also was reminded by doc that the Humira injections for my Chrons increases risks for skin cancer -- and lymphoma. Scary. I need to sooth my stress and build up my immune system. Have to do this.

Vivek  - your words are always so soothing for my soul -- bring me peace. your are one of my best    I am so glad you came - I was needing your grounded encouragement and belief in me. Helps me believe in myself.

peaceplease -- yes I need to take care of myself. And my mantra the past few days is "I will not be bullied anymore. I am able to walk away and take care of myself." I cannot always prevent gd being exposed to her mom's rage toward me - but am getting better at makig the repairs. And gd is able to verbalize her distress, and ask for what she needs. ie. sleeping snuggled up to me. I am the middle of the cocoon between gd and dh. I feel safe too. And I have to accept that DD will always be a part of my life. I have to keep fnding the ways to take of myself. How are you taking care of YOU?

So DD - her evil twin has gone back into hiding. At least not right at the surface- her beady eyed stare is gone today. Does meth, or meth withdrawal, close down the pupils? Dd had tiny pupils past few days as she tried to stare me down or draw me into... .Also know that meth can cause picking at the skin - the police told me this a year or so ago during one of her rage episodes. (the last time she was sent to ER for psych eval, maybe 18 months ago. though she did not test positive for meth at the ER).

This is her pattern when under stress and out on the streets for several days and she returns home -- sleeps for about 2 days except to eat. Not even smoking much during those two days. But do not cross her - best to avoid her. Now today she comes upstairs and is a reasonable human being. Still a little tired, her skin lesions are healing (and she had many many when she appeared for court last Thursday morning - I met her at the courthouse and she had been on streets for about a week. She started on her antibiotics when she came home briefly Wednesday afternoon for a shower.)

Dd is able to show some care and concern for me and interest is what is going on with gd. This empathy was gone - absolutely gone - prior to today. And this is often part of her pattern too after being on the street for several days.

So, I need to let it all go in this very moment. All assumptions on my part. DD is under new probation now. All we can do is move forward. I have to stop myself from projecting into the future - this only brings on worries for me and these get transferred to my family. And the future is uncertain and rarely turns out how I am thinking anyway.

So need to work on being mindful. Being willing to fully participate in this moment whatever it brings. And trusting the God is indeed here for me. As he is here for each member of my family. It is not my plan - not in my control.

I registered for the women's bible study for this year - it starts in about 10 days. I am so looking forward to this weekly connection with others. And I am going to the 12-step group at my chruch on Sundays while gd is in Sunday school. I don't make it every week as gd refuses to go if her friend is not there. Today was so good in this group. Step 9 - making amends to myself and to others when it does not cause harm. I am not really at this step yet. I shared about how the boundary of DD cannot have her friends in our home for safety of gd and us. This is trigger for her raging past 9 months. Others shared about their boundary challenges with safety concerns with family. I do not feel so alone. I could speak without guilt or worry about saying 'too much'.

My T is on the pastoral counseling staff - she is a licensed counselor as well. She told me to come in this week and not to worry about the money - she is always there to talk with me. I have not been in for aobut 6 weeks - it was about the money. I will call her tomorrow.

I cannot do this alone. I need all of my friends here that know the pain as they have been here too. I need my new friends and counselor that are willing to accept me when I am able to be vulnerable. And most of all - to be back in an awareness of my connection to God.

It is up to DD to succeed with her probation and house arrest. She knows the consequences both good and bad. I have to step out of her way. I have to be at peace with myself so I can hear when she asks for my help, and know if it is something I am willing to offer.

Gotta go. Gd having an angry bird night. Making a slingshot for her 'mooshy' birds and pig. It is OK to think about good vs. evil. We all have capacity for both sides within oursleves. Safe way to express feelings and work them out, IMHO. Dh is brainstroming with her.

qcr  

Okay, I am back.  You do realize that your dd will continue with this behavior because she knows that she can.  The next time that she threatens call and report it to her PO.  I know that it would be heartbreaking for her to serve her time in jail, but now you are in jail.  If she continues with her threats, then please call PO.  :)on't yell, just call.  You can warn her, and let know that you are serious.  You have a small child that you are responsible for, and you can not allow your dd to destroy all of you.  

I feel a little like the pot calling the kettle black because I have been just trying to keep my dd from flipping and keeping the peace. Once, she is moved into her house, I am setting boundaries on how many trips we will make to the store, and how much time she is allowed.   I have put a cap on how much she was allowed to spend on materials for home.   she thinks because I have cc, we can spend without limits.  She was angry when I capped it at $100, and said that we never discussed money limits.  But, she did pay for the extra can of paint that she needed.  And, I bought new handles for her cabinets.  She discovered that she needs more.  I told her that she can get more when she gets her next check, as it is not a dire need.  She has been a "homezilla"(like bridezilla) when it comes to how she wants things done.  Anyways, I can go on, forever, but will not hijack here.  I just wanted to empathize that I get it, as many of us do.  But... .

Your dd is a serious emotional threat to your gd.  Possibly a physical threat to you.  And, all this stress is feeding cancer.  I know what you mean about the SSI and open up opportunities for housing if she is approved.  :)o you realize that if she is approved, that it may take awhile for things to set in motion.  Possibly another 6 months.  Are you willing to tolerate it that long?

Your dd gets to choose to stay with you and abide to your rules, or she can choose not to follow rules, and accept the other option.  It is her choice.  It will not be your fault, if you call her PO to report any possible violations.  eg. threats to you.  Her lawyer is her "legal advocate".  She does not care about your personal family problems.

And, you are not helping her by allowing her to bully you.  If she loses chance at getting SSI because she is in jail, then that is on her. She should not be excused for her behavior.  I was visiting a site the other day on parenting.  It was the transformation program.   I think it was called parentempowerment.com.  There is a part for adult children.  One woman, said that she kicked out her 26 y.o. ds.  She felt bad because, he has bipolar, but that he chooses not to take medications or comply with therapy.   But, she could no longer tolerate the behavior and out him out.  Your dd is an adult, and knows right from wrong.  So, therefore, her behavior towards you and around her dd is inexcusable.  She will not get better, if you allow her to continue to bully.

Your gd needs to be protected.     You do not want a repeat of this with her growing up with this.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I care about you.  I care about your family.  And, that includes your dd.  And, allowing her to be controlling is not helping her, either.  

You and family are in my prayers.  I am so sorry that you are going through all of this.  

 

peaceplease

peaceplease - yes, the lawyer is her advocate. and i did leave the lawyer a message on friday that DD was continuing the bad behaviors from thursday after court, and I did not think she could do her EHD with us. DD does not have her new PO yet. I am driving her to PO office tomorrow.

Do need to remind her of conditions for her staying with us. Staying 100% on her probation. I will be checking in with both the PO and the EHD deputy if she is in our home. Will contact both of them to see if DD needs to sign a release for this. And she will have to sign the release. No friends in our home. She will have windows for her appointments that include transportatoin time. This is when she will have to connect with peers. If she feels like she is losing control, she needs to have someone to contact to help talk her down. I cannot be the one with this responsibility. If she gets into PACE program, they will take over the probation function along with mental health. They will need to know my need for verification. And she will have a case coordinator of some kind with them.

I will let you all know how I am managing all this tomorrow. It is OK to be harsh. I need to be kept real in my compassion -- boundaries are valuable and work only when consistent. Keep reminding me. I need you to do this.

qcr  

qcr,

Sorry, I cross posted.  Meth will cause pupils to dilate, not constrict.  Opiates will cause them to constrict.

What am I doing to take care of myself?  told you that I was the kettle calling you black.lol.  I definitely am planning on scheduling appointment with T.  Trying, to be a little firmer with my boundaries.  My dd does not want my dh to help her paint.  He got a smidge on the ceiling.  I told her that it was fresh, and could be removed, but she decided that she needs to paint the ceiling now.  My dh painted in our house, and I am quite pleased.  She just recently started talking to my dh, again.  She had a friend help her, today, and it took them all day.  My dh would have finished it by now. But, hey that is her choice.  She is being ridiculously petty about things in the house.  She could be moved in there by now.   I offered to help her numerous times, but she says that she doesn't know what ican do, as she has not thought that far ahead.  I cleaned out her kitchen shelves as best as I could.  They have rust marks on them, and there is no way she is going to get them off.  She is spending way too much time on things.(Adderall has her mind super racing)  I bought shelf liner and it would cover the stains inside the cupboards.  They are clean! So, that is her problem.  She wants things done on her timeline.  My dh offered to go over there and work, but she did not want him there without her supervision.  She wants it done her way!   Then she called and wanted him to light her pilot on water heater.  Well, my dh was watching game.  so, she had to wait 1 1/2 hrs. |iiii

She complains that nobody is helping her.  I offered.  My dh offered.  My ds was even willing to help her move, if she asked nicely.  she is no longer talking to him, now.  Before, she complained about me not helping her.  I told her that I would, but I needed to meet my mothers needs first.  Not in those words, but anyways, she was jealous that she was second fiddle.  She complained that I get nobody to help relieve me with my mother.  True, my sister does minimal, but I know that she is just  a phone call, and will help when asked.  In fact, I asked her to take my mom somewhere today, as I promised my dd help.  My dd had a friend help her, so she told me that she would call.  She never did.  That is fine.  I wish that I would not have asked my sister, though.  I like to ask for favors when I really need them.

I don't mind my mother.  My dd thinks it is so terrible that I get little help.  I get paid to help her.(kinda, I live here totally free, with exception of groceries)I used to help with utilities, but my mother said that she has the money.  She does not want me to work.  She prefers to have me here. For now, I work a very per diem job, doing home visits to group homes. I am obligated to help her. My dd looks at it like my mother is a burden to me.  I find comfort in helping her during her latter years.  She can drive me batty at times, but I love that I can make life easier for her.  And, I know that can be me down the road.  I have always had a soft spot for geriatrics.

My dd is upset because the people that she really wants to help her are not available.  That is my sister and her son.  My dd has alienated my nephew.  She doesn't get that he is married and has his own family.  She is angry because they used to be very close.  My nephew's wife is not too fond of my dd. (with good reason)  And, she is upset that my sister is not available, as she is always going to see one grandchild or the other.  the closest one lives 65 miles away.  My dd can not accept that life changes, and relationships change. eg.  we used to get together weekly, but due to growing family, our get togethers are holidays and special occasions.  My dd is upset that my gs is not included in their outings.  I tried to explain that we are now extended family.  But, I guess that is abandonment in her eyes.  She always idolized my sister.  Now, she is disgusted with the whole family.      And, my dd has very few friends.

Sorry, I rambled and hijacked.  My problems are minimal to yours and others here.

 

peace

Hard but true. Your dd knows right from wrong. Let her accept responsibility for her behaviours.

If you have an iphone or an android, you can get apps for short 'meditations' - I downloaded a free app today, called "Qi Gong Meditation" Qi Gong is a Chinese meditation that I have done classes in. It's good. There's a mindful breathing exercise that is three and a half minutes long 

Cheers,

Vivek    

QcarolR-

Such a mess.

It is so easy to give advice. It is a temptation to be harsh with you as I wish to advocate for your GD, since she is so young and innocent.

However, after so long on this board, (I think you and I joined around the same time) I firmly believe you know best. I think your kind heart and your love for your DD cloaks your path in a mighty fog.

I truly believe you know best.

Be strong. Strip down your choices, eliminate fear as a driving force. Change fear to firm boundaries that protect as many people as you can. You cannot predict the future but you can be informed by the past.

If your DD is doing drugs it will be revealed at some point. I do think this may be part of the problem. I know my DH and I were very clueless about my SD's drug use and we had clue after clue after clue. It is easier, far easier to make excuses when things are going poorly.

If you have no choice but to go forward, spell out all of the rules on paper. Read it outloud to her. Ask her if she understands. Make her sign the list and figure out what you will do when she breaks the rules.

And I wonder, if she has to do six months without overnight guests to smooth the stay, would she then choose jail. Can she choose jail?

Do you give an inch and she the takes a mile? Can you stop inch-giving?

Sticking firmly to boundaries isn't easy if you are accustomed to granting favors.

Things to think about.

 

Thursday

Thursday- you are right about so many things in your reply. I was just thinking this is really about boundaries and how deep the conflict in needs are between gd and dd.

Drove DD to courhouse to meet with PO. She hassled me the whole way - into the courthouse loby even - about having a friend over. This has been the core of all the raging since we but the no friends rule in place in Feb. It started as no overnight friends - gone by 10 pm to catch last bus. Then it shrank to 7 pm to not interfere with gd bedtime. When she returned after being gone all of May it was "no friends at all".

This rule is a desire for dh and I. It is a clear safety need for gd. Gd is extremely fearful of effects of dd having friends over.

I did my best to respond to dd today from a firm, calm place. Not perfect. I sat outside and waited while she took care of business with PO. I offered her an inch - her friend could come today (with his dog!) if he was gone by 3pm. It was already 12:30. So she asked for bus money, which I gave her.

I also told her that we would continue to search for a living situation for her to be working toward her independence. Reminded her of SSI hearing in Oct (though she has no faith it will be positive outcome - this is fourth time she has applied and gone to appeal). Told the limit on financial assistance we could give. To give more means cancelling something in our life - less food, electricity, phone, etc.

I also called her lawyer and said we were still struggling with the friends issue, and who would she suggest I contact about alternative living situation for the EHD. 

Bottom line for me is this is about boundaries, needs and desires. Told DD that gd's needs will be put first. Gd is very stressed and fearful of any of DD's friends at our house. Gd does not even have any friends that can come to our house -- we have to meet at a park or play at the other child's home or in our front yard. This is the reality of our life right now.

Don't really know what of this DD heard. We will see how it goes day by day. DD has to meet her friends somewhere else.

qcr  

Yes!

Gd is vulnerable because of her age. Dd is an adult who could have made different choices and still can make better choices, but choses not to. Yes she is handicapped by BPD but she has had and does have support if she wants to change. She choses not to.

You and your dh are the family unit for gd, you need to protect that family unit, you need to protect yourself. Boundaries give us protection. Clear and consistent. If you give an inch you are saying you are not consistent with your boundary. This consistency is different to being willing to negotiate. Giving an inch is not negotiating, it is sending a message that you can be manipulated into giving in.

If dd is to be successful in being able to live an independent life, doesn't she have to leave that old life behind? Her friends are no friends, they are co enablers. They want her to be there so they can have someone worse off than them, or someone they can share drugs with, they have their own issues and your dd needs people with no issues in her life if she is to stand on her own two feet.

For the sake of your family, your boundaries need to be there, based on your values of respect etc. Your dd is welcome to be a part of that family unit - but she should respect it. If she can't respect it, then you need to stand firm and respect yourself and dh and gd and hold true to your values. You are best off if you let her learn the consequences of her actions. She is best off if you let her learn the consequences of her actions.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh qcr, you know it is just how I see it from a distance, not in your shoes. You are in a no win situation, soothe yourself, develop a plan and allow the universe to continue to spin. I am here, sending you love.

be calm and strong, breathe deep,

Vivek    

qcr,

  I understand how horrible it is to be trapped in car being pestered or yelled at, and even continuing when you have arrived at destination. 

If she gets into Pace program, would they have housing resources? I was so fortunate when my dd was accepted into a program for homeless women.  Even though, she was not technically homeless at that time.  I told her that she needed to be out by a certain date.  And, I can recall being nervous that I would not be able to follow through with evicting her. 

You really are in a no win situation. I am sure that you have checked out every possible avenue for housing for your dd for the next two months.  Hope the "good twin" of dd comes out again soon, and sticks around longer for you.

 

peaceplease

qcr,

You truly are in a no-win situation.  I wonder how your granddaughter would be feeling right now if her mother had gone to jail after her recent court appearance.  My guess is she would be sad, but very relieved.  I feel so bad for all of you, but especially your gd.  She does not deserve the chaos her mother brings into her life.  You're already seeing the effect her mother's choices have made on her and that damage is done. 

You can't un-do that damage, but you can limit future damage to her by removing from her life the person who is causing the damage.  I know that sounds very cold because that person is your daughter, the mother of your grandchild.  But I don't see any way that your dd is not going to continue to wreak havoc on your gd's life--not to mentions yours and your husband's lives--if she continues to come into your home and be around your gd. 

I'm not saying I could do it, but the best thing for your gd would be for her to not see her mother at all unless there is a huge and lasting change in your daughter's life. 

qcr,

Hind sight is always 20/20. Don't be hard on yourself... .

Do you think that saying something like the below would have been helpful, or would she have gotten loud anyway?:

'We are happy to have you in our home. It is good, as long as it is safe for gd and as long as it is calm and safe for us as well. Do you think you can abide by the house rules you agreed to, or do you think you need to find another option?'

Sometimes we can improve and help our loved one stay calm, sometimes it just isn't in our power. And that's ok.   


Two things are separate - dd's legal obligations and dd's stay at your home as long as it is safe for everyone. I wouldn't worry about her legal obligations right now - that is her responsibility. How would you have handled the situation before the sentencing, when she lived with you and it seemed to be working?


I wouldn't call it fantasy - it did work for a while, and it does when your dd is trying. The question is - can it/will it continue?

Sending you love. It is a tough situation, take good care of yourself.   

Boundary:  none of your friends may come to our home.

Your daughter:  yell, yell, verbally abuse, accuse, blame, guilt trip, whine, complain, become aggressive, etc. etc. etc... .

Boundary:  your friend can come but has to leave by 3:00

This sends a clear message to your daughter that if she is aggressive enough for long enough your boundaries are not solid and she will get what she wants in whole or in part.

These behaviors of hers, accompanied by your porous boundaries are her undoing... .these behaviors are being reinforced and these behaviors will most likely end up as the cause of her failure to comply with court orders and having to leave your home.  Neither of these are the desired outcome.

The question is ... .how will you stop this cycle?

It is relentless pounding. I am exhausted.

DD, who I left in town yesterday, showed up via bus at midnight. I had to unlock the door for her. This morning her homeless friend showed up in the backyard at 7 am with his 'companion dog' (certificate so dog can ride bus system. Was in middle of getting gd on bus at 7:30. I see that the shed doors are open and there are blankets from the house in there.

We ALL need to be in r/s with other people. That is our design. DD cannot be downtown with the homeless group and resist temptations. She wants to succed in this probation. Her belief that where she lives she has a right to have friends over has some legal merit as well as meets this basic need.

DD does not have the ability to get a job at this time. She will have resources in the PACE program to acquire these if she accepts and works the mental health/CBT parts first. She has no money resources. Even if she gets her SSI, those are very limited resources. She cannot get her own apartment to be with her friends away from the street; able to have a stable living situation and a safe place for her stuff. We have some resources to pay for an apartment for her for a year lease - it will take away from our retirement and we do not have time to rebuild that. Dh has to talk with his siblings about a distribution of a family trust to do this. The financial planner has offered to open this conversation at the Oct family meeting.

How to balance each person in the household's needs. That was my point to her yesterday.

What is my problem to own here? To have a home for gd without the stress of DD's friends. To have a safe home for gd without grandparents being in continous stressful state. The find peace for myself. To support dh finding peace for himself - this is ultimately his problem to process. I am co-dependent with dh in many ways, though this has been shifting over the past few years. We talk about this, and he participates in the conversations.

What do I want to do today? She if DD will repect and honor the request to have her friend gone before gd gets home from school. If friend is still here, will ask for gd to play next door and confront DD. She will have to suffer the consequences.

The other piece that I have not really shared is that I do trust DD in our home. She respects the upstairs of our home as 'off limits'. She does not steal from us, she does not read my personal stuff in my upstairs office. She is respecting and honoring the need to manage the dogs barking (this is new behavior). She wants to be part of the family, and she needs a safe place to hang out with her friends.

It not a simple situation. I cannot set aside all my compassion and love for any one person in my family - esp. my care for myself. I am leaving soon to meet with my T. The topic is boundaries today. I have been reading "Boundaries" by Cloud & Townsend as a guide.

I really really want to rent an apartment for DD. If we could get money from the trust, we could manage this financially. It would give DD a chance to grow in her independence, yet be close enough to see the dogs and gd -- and her parents. It would add to 'normalizing' our r/s's. Are we willing to take the risks to rent an apartment?

qcr  

Revisit your priorities list.  Make decisions based on the priority... .sometimes we have to make choices we don't want to... .that is a hard truth.

yes. If there are competing priorities, it is hard. Your gd and your dd are competing priorities.

You cannot help either if you jeopardise your own capacity to be a support, whether that is with your own health or your financial situation, now and into the future.

Vivek      

I dont claim to be an expert here, but I do remember a quote I learned in a parenting workshop... .insanity is... .doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Let your dd figure this out for herself. You have always been there for her and she knows you will bend for her. Try something different... .maybe you will get different results... .as the others have said... .reread your priorities.

Thinking about all this. Lots to think about.

Values --- this is where the boundaries come from. Writing a list of our family values. Writing a list of my understanding of DD's values. They are pretty much on opposite sides of the spectrum.

qcr

qcr,

lovesjazz is so right.  I keep doing the same thing, too.  Giving into her after saying no, and her persistence wears me down.  I am the only one  there for my dd now.  What is wrong with this picture?  I am the only one that will put up with her.  Things have to change.  I have the power to change what I can on my part.  And, how can my dd respect me when I let her bully me?  Have I created a monster by allowing her to manipulate me over and over?  I need to sit down and tell her what I am willing to do, and how much of my time she can have.  She cannot monopolize it because, her demands require so much.


Your dd is making demands, and you are trying to accommodate her.  Trying to figure out how she can be happy, and you all live in peace.  She has created her situation, and, yet, you are all suffering from it.   What can SHE do to change her situation?


I understand that is very complicated.   And, it is hard to change what we have always done. But, if we don't how can we expect different results?  

peace

ps  Just saw your post. Different values on opposite ends.  Similar here, too.

qcaroir,

The one thing I have learned from our tragedy is to trust my own instincts.  No-one truly understands the family situation but the people in it.  

Your situation would try the virtues of all the saints together.  It is a very tough one.  Yet, you never, ever give up.  

You have a brilliant mind and a steely determination and an unbelievable capacity to learn and change.  

Dig them boundaries deep into your soul, as you are doing... .

Your thinking seems very measured and realistic in an incredibly complex situation.

Reality is messy sometimes.

Musings... .musings... .

Reality

Q-

I have read this thread a few times now. Please be patient with me as I put thoughts together.

This thread begins with your offer to allow DD to have home detention and with her spelling out, loudly and angrily, what she will and won't accept while she is being detained. She isn't seeing this home detention as a saving grace, she is looking at it as something she can and will control so that her needs are met and so that she can be as comfortable as possible.

Your compassion towards her is understandable, you adopted her and promised to be her mother. You loved her from the get-go and nothing will change this. The problem, simply put, is that she has no tools to survive in the real world, she is too damaged by her right brain injuries and her due to her BPD and her powerful will to make a place for herself she has become maladapted, a bully, violent, not in enough control of herself to not get into trouble with the law and with people who can hurt her.

This idea she has about bullying to get what she wants works (with you) so why should she change?

You don't want her to have visitors in your home. But, you say, everyone needs friends and while that IS true you still have to look at who her friends actually are and ask yourself if they are safe. I assume they are not, I assume your GD's fears are justified. I'm positive, if she had some really excellent friend who was willing to comply with your rules in order to have a relationship with her, there would be no real issue in fulfilling this need of hers.

We have seen that when you allow your dd to have guests that sometimes these guests become unwanted. Sometimes the person she chooses is someone you like or tolerate as a member of your household because it makes things easier for you.

Since your DD doesn't have what it takes to have peaceful, reasonable relationships in a sustained manner with these permanent house guests your allowance for her to participate in these relationships hinders the peace in your home. So long as you allow her to make these choices out of your sense of her entitlement you will have these issues surrounding you. The peace in your home will further erode and your DD will not learn anything new about how to cope with your relationship.

What has happened more than once is that you see that your DD is happier (and thus more tractable) when you allow her to have someone staying with her in your home. So, you allow it. She is easier when you allow it. Problem is, because of your DD's issues, eventually, the person living with her in the basement doesn't act the way she wants, or they get in a fight, or more people start showing up or someone brings in another dog.

If you really don't want extra people in your home you will have to tolerate how angry this will make your DD. You will possibly have to sustain her anger at you for the duration of her stay. If she escalates into violence, you know the number for 911.

You have written about getting her an apartment as a solution. Frankly, I'm not sure this will do much to help her get control of herself. With your DD so out of control of herself an apartment might lead her to worse trouble. But at least you won't have to daily tolerate her moods, her anger, her violence. I can see how this would be preferable to the present unending toleration of her anger.

Getting her an apartment- is this fantasy or doable? If I were you, before I gave up money meant for my retirement (I mean, we are the same age, you and I, (more or less) and I worry about my and dh's future quite a bit... .we have given up so much of our savings to help my SD... .at some point we really do have to say... .enough is enough) I would really ask myself if this is a quick, easy fix that might end me up in a similar or worse place than I'm in now. What does that apartment look like after eight months of your daughter calling the shots? You've projected this in threads here before and it doesn't sound good, in fact it sounds like you might have some major repairs on your hands, fighting that gets physical, you could end up with folks living with her who are hard to evict. Your DD's neighbors aren't going to be able to negotiate any of this for her.

You, however, will still be there, ready to try to fix whatever she gets herself into.

In the end, what is necessary here? Your daughter needs to either take care of herself OR tolerate your rules. There are nuances and gray area in each choice but this is the crux of the matter. Two choices and both are hers to make.

There is no candy-coating on how difficult it is to deal with borderline personality disorder. What if what she needs is for you to establish a firm boundary so that she can learn how to deal with herself and her choices? And for you to tolerate the extinction burst OR call the police if she is a danger to herself or to your safety. Such a hard, hard truth for you Q, I have so very much empathy for you.  

It is a leap of faith, to leave someone who is so poorly in control of their self in charge. If she is unable to control herself (even after being given some tools (therapy) and knowledge (therapy) then she probably needs to be institutionalized. Without boundaries she will not be able to find solid ground. It can be crippling to walk on shaky ground.

Setting boundaries with consequences will be something she will have to tolerate to be in your home. I wouldn't worry so much about how unhappy she will be to comply on your terms. There will, NO DOUBT, be a huge extinction burst. It's going to suck! It might even be dangerous but I believe you are truly at an impasse.

Use your common sense to look down the road a bit to what your DD might learn about herself and how to cope and how to behave in challenging situations. When you and your husband are gone, who then? Maybe your GD will be old enough then to have a place your DD can crash... .with her pals from the homeless community... .or maybe she is feisty enough by then to have already gotten herself far, far away from the situation, her heart confused and heavy at this unfortunate load.

I believe you can get through this Q. If your daughter can't comply with the consequences you will, at very least, know you have set her up for success and done the right thing. It becomes the right thing, you know, to love them enough to LET THEM GO. Because otherwise, our love can become a trap. I KNOW you wish your daughter all the best that life has. If wishes were raindrops we would all be showered in happiness.

You can't MAKE her behave. All you can do is show her what that looks like.

If you need inspiration, look into your GD's eyes. You know all of this isn't good for her. This continued chaos is not the optimum situation for her success and happiness.

Your daughter has been in jail before and survived.

Your daughter has been homeless and survived.

Your daughter can have firm boundaries and comply. She CAN survive you saying NO to her. If she won't comply, at least two possible outcomes (see above) are known to be survivable.

I know this is all very harsh and tough to hear. Offered to you with   , nonetheless.

thursday

Q,

I HOPE YOU CAN HEAR WHAT EVERYONE IS SAYING HERE.  You cant make everyone happy. Our BPDs once said he lost respect for us because we were too weak to say no after he wore us down. Is there any way theycan recind the court order and have her go tojail? Once she is in your house, she will run the show at everyones expense.especially your gd.

I know this is hard, but let go and let God. He will do what is best, but dont get in His way... .im sure you dont want a repeat with your gd... .stay strong

Thursday - so much gratitude for you pulling all my posts together.

If DD has not already been arrested at our house as I type, there will be a warrant out for her arrest. The charge is violation of the no-contact order with exbf"M". He showed up at the door yesterday afternoon as gd was in front yard playing with her friends. I did not engage in anthing more than telling him he could not be here due to no contact order. His reply was DD was contacting him and that is why he was there! I was going to keep things peaceful with all the kids around. DD chose to go on a walk with him. She came and went until she stayed in house about 11pm.

Gd was hypervigilent until I finally got her to sleep, sleeping on the floor of her room with her. She had us triple check that all the doors and windows were locked, the shed and camper were locked, no one was in the yard. She asked me to call the police, and sat beside me while I did, to have them check the park near our house and the open space trail behind our house. I chose not to report the presence of exbf in area to avoid police at our house. This is super traumatic for gd.

This morning gd was off to school on bus. Dh left for work. I logged into bpdfamily.com. The doorbell rings. exbf is there returning coat to dd, totally drenched from rain. Again told him he cannot be here, and DD again appears at the door angry that I am not letting him in. I state calmly and clearly to both of them, if DD wants to be in our house she has to comply with every order of her sentence from last week. I clearly heard the judge state the no-contact order is still in place. DD can follow the rules, including NO FRIENDS AT ON OUR PROPERTY, or she can find somewhere else to be. exbf said "dd, find somewhere else to be." DD said she would go with him and went to get dressed and get her backpack, but he had left.

I offered to drop her in town on my way to work as soon as she was ready. She was combative - verbally trying to defend her position of having friends, her 'rights' in our home, etc etc etc. I stayed calm and said I did not feel safe being in the car with her. She needed to leave on her own. She parked herself on the sofa stating she was not going anywhere. We had adopted her, we were stuck with her. She was never leaving. I said, OK. I am going and you can figure out how to cope.

I drove to the local police station. The officer had already checked the history of our house based on my givng my name. She even remembered when she had been there several years ago. She checked left to check a few things. Recommended protection of gd called for her arrest on the no-contact violation. I agreed and filled out the complaint. The officer will call with the status before I leave work at 2pm to be home for gd's bus. She said to leave the house with gd if DD is there or shows up and then call 911. I am praying praying she is in jail before i leave work.

Dh and I talked last night about how hard making the best choice is for us. How much we hope for dd when she is in a more compliant place. yet this is always on its way to being non-compliant. We have to back each other up in getting dd out of the house. DD is not ABLE TO CARE about our rules or the courts orders. She is very dysregulated, as Thursday has so clearly described. DD cannot come back to our house when she is released from jail. We have to take whatever steps are necessary to make this happen. Gd is the basis of making this happen. Gd is our loving, legal, moral responsibility. She has to have the chance to overcome her fear of losing me to DD's actions.

For me, this is truly DETACHMENT WITH LOVE in action. Love for DD, and she needs a much higher level of services than our home can ever provide. Love for gd, she is a young child already struggling with the traumas that we were not able to prevent - from our own places of dysregulation throughout DD's lifetime. This all was so very clear to me this morning in listening to DD.

This morning I had done my breathing and prayed for courage and strength. I had the 'strength to endure the unendurable that will flow into joy'. I am hopeful now that the joy will be there.

Please keep praying for courage and strength for each member of my family, including DD. It is here for each of us. We only need to ask.

Keep coming back. I need you all.     

qcr  

Prayers going up for all of you, dear qcr.      Swampped

Here for you... .

       

Very upsetting, very scary.

Let us know you are OK.

Be strong.

 

Thursday

Another thought (distracted at work :))

The police officer could really validate my position. She is caring for her nephew in her home with very similar circumstances.

The world is in such pain.  :'(

I am in deep sorrow today and great relief that dh and I are able to do what needs to be done.

Like "Kung Fu Panda" says 'It is not about 'I', it is getting done what needs to be done.'  We have the cartoons on our DVR and gd watches one every night before bed.

qcr  

Dearest qcarolr,

It took a great deal of faith, clarity, and courage to do what you needed to do.

God bless you for that!

 


lbj

qcr,

You absolutely did the right thing.  I was thinking about your granddauhter last night and how she has been forced onto a very fast and very scary roller coaster that no child her age should be on.  Your gd's reaction last night wanting you to check the doors and call the police is further proof how damaging this roller coaster is to her.  She is asking you to get her off and and not make her get back on it, and that is what you are now doing.  I will keep praying for you and your family.  You are stronger than I think I could ever be.

You done good, qcarolr!  |iiii

I hope that things are going well today, and that you are able to create that safe space for you, your granddaughter and husband. You did what you had to do, and I commend you on that; I know it wasn't easy! You do have my prayers... .Please stay strong in the knowledge that God will make sure everything happens for the best... .

   Rapt Reader

Q,

What courage it took to do what you had to. Be in peace now... .God bless.

qcr you are in terrible pain, I feel for you.   I hope that the pain shared means it is eased. You are acting with integrity and living by your values doing what you know is right. You may feel crushed or tired, but you are strong. You are a good mother and grandmother and wife and friend.

Cheers,

Vivek      

Think I will start a new thread. This one is taking a long time to open in my browser! And besides - DD will not be doing home detention at my house.

qcr