BPDFamily.com

Dear bpdfamily,

I'm going to relate a thought here and would welcome your comments.  I was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences and what did it feel like to you.   It's somewhat explicit, though, so read carefully.  

My expwBPDgf was hypersexual.   But we almost had NO foreplay.  Nor afterplay.  It was always very sexual, but not loving.   She would tell me that for her to get off, she had to go through her "list" of sexual fantasies in order to get to the one that would get her off.   And these were no ordinary fantasies.   They were so debasing that she couldn’t even tell me about them.  Even today, I don’t know all of them.  Just bits and pieces here and there.  The pornography she preferred was BDSM stuff.   I couldn’t watch it with her because I would lose my erection.  We even would watch different pornography at the same time while having intercourse!  So strange now that I think about it!

But now it makes sense!   We really weren’t having sex as a couple.  We were having sex in parallel.   And a part of me hated this because it didn’t make me feel close to her.  In fact, I was the one who was less interested in sex for the past two years.  I just didn’t know exactly why other than being so very unhappy.   From the BPD perspective, I think I can now understand that she couldn’t share the sexual experience in the same way I wanted to.   It makes me sad to think that I’ve been having sex by myself all these years.  And worse, I thought that we had terrific sexual experiences.

I apologize in advance if I've made an error in posting here as I tried to stay within the guidelines.

D

 mine was nothing quite like that.  but a little similar.  She always want to go straight to intercourse.  telling me to lead,  but always taking over.   So I  was often walking on eggshells intimately,  too! She thought  and said at the end, " no emotional connection"  well she had that with a former lover,  but he left her out of the blue and it devastated her. I  guess it wasn't good for him! or maybe he couldn't stand her being angry all of the time.  and he had other options.  good time to read the " when sex is too important"  article here... .

Turkish, is that an article to be found here on bpdfamily?

I remember trying really hard the first few years to be intimate and connected before intercourse.  But it was not really welcomed at all.  Finally, I just gave up.  It didn't occur to me until today that there was a specific reason for this behavior under so intimate a circumstance.

D

Hi D,

Sexual Addiction: When the Sex is Too Important to Us (https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles14.htm)

These things apply to Love Addicts as well, which is what mine leans towards more.

Takingwing,

You're not alone. Have you read this thread? https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=211310.0

Many of us felt we could have been anyone during sex with our BPD. Mine didn't want any romance,foreplay, intimacy. Just to get on with it. When I refused, he'd go get it elsewhere.  :'(

Very similar experience here.  My exBPDgf was very hypersexual,  I really think it was the only time she felt "loved".  While sex was initially what I would call "making love"  about halfway through the relationship she began wanting a more BDSM type relationship.

I'm open minded and willing to play along.  In hindsight,  I realize it was one more way for dump responsibility off of her and on to me.  There was more to it than that, but I think that was a big part of it.  I still wanted to "make love" to her as well but even if we started that way she would take it in the direction of being rough.

Regardless if it was slow and gentle or rough, there were times when I could feel her disassociate from the whole thing.  I don't know how to explain it, but I'm guessing anyone who has experienced knows what I'm talking about.  It was like it didn't really matter if it was me or someone else, a person or an inanimate object.  Her only goal was to achieve her orgasm.  To this day when I think about her in that state, I'm disgusted with her and a bit disgusted by myself for putting up with it.

Now, after the end of the relationship, she claims all BDSM stuff was my idea and she only did it to please me.

We were very sexual for about the first month. After that she started yelling at me and being irrational over small things.

It got to the point we had sex maybe once every three months. Our relationship became sexless because she kept dumping me.

Mine raged at me once because I didn';t want to do it when we stopped by her office for something one weekend. In the conference room, where the very small cadre of her office workers sit. Possible mess. Gross. I know some people get off on that, but not me. I guess I am too empathetic and thought about someone doing it where I might be sitting in a meeting a day later pissed me off. So, I was the bad guy... .repressed, not "fun."

I was never rejected when I wanted sex in 3 years. Sometimes she would get "finished" during sex but always let me finish. She loved to watch me giving oral to her and intercourse was always incredible with multiple O's. She was not selfish during sex which seems to go against the norm. She would also clean me which is pretty unselfish for a pwBPD :)

I wish, then i would've left early... .

No none of that, that was a mutual bond i or her never been put down,Me and her had multiple o's for the first time together and she was also a squi&ter ! Kinky !

she would always be with me in the moment.

she would say my name (God) regularly ! That one's a joke.

Been there, done that, and wish I had gotten the T-shirt.

With me, it wasn't as big a deal as I had functioned within the swing scene, a situation not exactly known for high intimacy.  At first, the "porn star" sex wasn't a big deal.  After a while, you just want to have sex, not make it a big production.  I dealt a lot with what you spoke of, and it's old hat to the scene.  FWIW, it's all about detaching about what is an emotionally traumatic experience.  Considering something like 85% of people with BPD were child sex abuse victims, sex is likely a traumatic undertaking every time they do it.

Lemme ask you this much.  Say, for example, doing the dishes was a traumatic experience for you.  How keen would you be on doing the dishes, especially without making a big production about it?

Eeeexactly!

My ex is all about the sex.

His big 'thing' is to seduce the mind first ... .to the point where the actual sex cannot live up to what has been exchanged in writing/fantasy.

I sometimes think he would be happier just with cyber/cam sex ... .auto-erotica is easier for him as he can maintain an erection for one thing - not always possible for him with a live woman.

He to is into some kink ... not BDSM per se ... but he (for example) simply will not engage in missionary sex ... it's off the table.

He has disassociated more than once during sex ... the things he said were impersonal and out-of-character (or perhaps that is in character) ...

Having said all of that ... he has little trouble finding women and my replacement is obviously happy with the sex ... it's been 7 weeks now and she and he are off for a romantic xmas vacation ... .for the first month after our split he kept telling me he was impotent (he and I didn't have this problem but I think my own sexual issues fed his) ... .I don't know if it's true or not ... I do know that sex is a complicated and performance based act with him ... .

To the op, since you asked to go here, and it is a valid topic. An important topic. We should be clear. I've participated in many "fetishistic" acts with my pwBPD. Never with malice and cruelty, but from need. More her desire than mine, but still mutual. And enjoyable.

Op, if you truly desire an empirical answer there is one. Not a universal answer, but one that is true. In many cases there was childhood sexual abuse--neither in adolescence, nor infancy, but during childhood--between the ages of 5-9. These girls, commonly were abused by some form of caretaker. Be it a babysitter, grandfather type figure, step father etc., the abuse almost always resembles the same pattern. It is a sick approximation of intimacy. Wherein the adult coerces, cajoles, and abuses their position of authority, so that the child becomes more enthusiastic, and the adult manipulates the child into the appearance of volitional conduct. I've seen this over and over, in the story that my pwBPD has lived and in my profession in the criminal justice system.

That is why they rebel against intimacy. Because intimacy is synonymous with perversion and abuse. Their shame is torturous, and I have such compassion for these women, because as little girls they became aroused by the "faux" intimacy of their abusers. And the guilt has screwed their psyche's up as adults for the rest of their days. They are so inhibited towards "carebear" sex, that their only release is through the most direct stimulus imaginable, because anything soft or gentle--is tied into the coaxing and faux gentleness of their childhood abusers. This is the horrible legacy that these predators infused in these little girls. Loving these broken dolls is not shameful--they are twisted angels behind dark masks.          

I actually take umbrance with the sweeping experiential brush that you paint with Conundrum.

Being one of those that you refer to myself, I can tell you that the age/s you propose are incorrect and the inability to enjoy loving intimacy/sex is also incorrect. Knowing one 'broken doll' and coming across others in a very specific and therefore limited capacity (in the criminal justice system) doesn't in any way mean that you know all there is to know or understand every experience.

Twisted angels? Really? ... .I find that patronising and infantalising ... .and that anger I don't often feel is actually bubbling right now.

Please don't reduce my (or any other woman's) sexual abuse/experience or nature into something that you can somehow 'know'. It is infuriating at best.

Sorry that it upset you. The op was asking about a pwBPD. You're a non. I gave my opinion. If you feel that it's an uneducated opinion, that's your right. I was trying to express a compassionate opinion. I regret that it triggered you. 

The sex I had with my ex was amazing.  We had awesome vanilla sex, and a lot of it.  TONS of foreplay. He was the first guy I'd been with in a long time who could match my appetite, and he wasn't into anything weird.  The best sex of my life, because I felt so connected and safe.  I felt  and saw bands of gold energy coursing though us, joining us together.  I imagined the house we were rehabbing to be a metaphor for our life together, and as we made love I imagined our home, this project, as the manifestation of our love. I really believed that he loved me more, that I was the most beautiful girlfriend in the world, that we were perfect together.  

He always had a thing about talking really quietly, so you had to really listen, or ask him to repeat what he said.  It would drive me crazy!  Sometimes we would be lying in bed having a little pillow talk, and I would have to ask hi to repeat, because even being that close I couldn't hear him.  It was bizarre.

Towards the end of our 5 year relationship I would get annoyed that almost every time he touched me it felt hyper-sexual.  I also felt that he used sex as a way not to have to get things done- like he didn't have time to do his work, but he had more than enough time to do me.  In year 1-4 I found that alluring.  By year 5 I was tired of supporting big projects that were not being completed.  

Yes, the sex was intense and mindblowingly so. She never once asked if I wanted to make love but would instead ask if I wanted to have sex. With her eyes closed each and every time, I could have been anybody. There was never any intimacy... .It was always about how many orgasms she could have. I would often count ten before losing count. I often said she confused love with sex, as in having sex meant she was being loved. But the way she had sex showed it was more a sport or hobby than an act of love and intimacy between two people.

I will never have that type of intense sex again but guess what? I don't want it and I don't miss it.

All,

This is an unbelievably fascinating discussion.  It seems that from your posts that there IS a disconnect sexually.  I have had to reevaluate the entire relationship and sexuality was something I didn't quite connect until I posted.   

I also looked at the other thread:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=211310.0

Very similar stories on that thread as well. 

Makes me so sad. 

Meanwhile, I got the first text in 4 days (a record thus far):  "I'm so happy!   I hope you're happy too."

Yes, ExpwBPDgf, I'm happy to be away from you while crying for the loss of my stepdaughter and friends and your crazy drama and suicide calls that kept me coming back to it... .

For now... .and even this might be a lie, but you were with her long enough to have a better gauge on that.


No she doesn't, she just wanted to tell you the first thing and not feel guilt for being such a *... .*


":)- I can't take it anymore, come rescue me!"

"Wait, I thought you said you were happy?"

Wow - this is exactly like my not soon enough to be xBPDh.  There was never any foreplay or cuddling after.  And he only wanted sex one way - and it wasn't missionary.  I once started crying in the middle of sex because I felt like he was raping me.  After that I started denying him and he threaten he would get it from someone else.  Turns out that he ended up with two girlfriends - one who is his "soulmate" and the other who was his swinging partner.

When he said he would get it from someone else I didn't realize that meant half of my state!

Turkish,

I wouldn't be surprised at all if she became depressed and asked me to call.   NOT HAPPENING!

She's getting her sexual needs met already with all the men she's dating.   Of that I'm quite certain.   She used to send me text messages on a weekly basis that she just had an orgasm.   It was NEVER a turn on to me.  I didn't get why she had to tell me then.  Now it seems so obvious why. 

Do any of you know about of an article on here that relates sexual disconnect with BPD?

D

I had an experience so much like that it's scary.  We were supposed to have sex in my office, but one of my students came to visit who just happened to be very beautiful.  We didn't have Alex, but I paid for that interaction at every other therapist meeting for nearly three years.    She was so jealous of this woman. 

I really don't understand when some of you guys mention "sex was mind blowing, amazing ... .and many would never have these experiences any more? 

I believe when is not intimate how could be so intense? 

It's fantasy sex every time. It is not intimate. Limited boundaries and my pwBPD was multi orgasmic (easily climaxed) and very vocal. Basically, it makes you feel like you are a great "lover".  It was about the only place I felt like I could please her all of the time.

Before I literally stopped having sex with my exUBPDgf in round 2 devaluation, it was always me orally pleasuring her a lot, her barely orally pleasuring me, and than ___ing my brains out(she was very sexual). She didn't understand the concept of making out, slowly leading up to the everything else. It was get your d*ck hard and ___ me till you pass out. Literally. And obviously, I couldn't perform under such unhuman like conditions. Sorry. So of course, that was used against me later as "Ironmanfalls, you must be gay" barrage I got as part of her leaving me. Right. Sex is very intimate for me. It has to mean something. I tried so hard to convey that to her. Like everything else, my verbal/mental/etc communication to her was lost to the ever shifting cyclonic winds inside her BPD vortex behind her Janus-faced exterior entity.

I got the "you must be gay" the night before I broke it off with her. I refused to have sex with her.

And the scary and sad thing is, she actually believes that. There is no winning against that kind of thinking. It was already confirmed inside of her head, irrespective of the real reality that was concurrently occurring around her. Checkmate. I'm done.

I wondered that too.

Spent the first few years of my marriage hoping he'd get that need for feeling that connection I'd been looking for. At first, I wrote it off to cultural differences and lack of relationship experience on his part, but no, just part of the BPD. Just an empty experience for me.

Mine was the same. In general I would describe it as fun but never intimate. He was always very intent in pleasing me but not making love. ( now I believe for his ego not my pleasure) He went straight for the act never any real foreplay. I would try to get him to kiss me and he would for for 2 seconds.

As for the non missionary. Mine claimed he had a bad back. I think it's the afraid of intimacy thing. If we were ever looking at each other he rarely opened his eyes. If he did it was like a kid who quickly opened them and closed them again quickly like he was afraid.

Also after he would usually cuddle but not until after he threw in a load of wash!

Omg. I can't stop belly laughing at this as I write. this was good for me I was actually missing the freak today for some reason.

Oh and the really amazing thing is he thinks he is such a great lover!

It's interesting that people had mentioned both swinging and performance on this thread.  As someone who was a swinger (and met my stbxw in that scene), it wasn't that much of a big deal.  I knew how to get myself revved up from a standing start, so to speak, and knew how to do all of those moves.  However, the show had to be HER show.  If I wanted to do my own thing or, heaven forbid, didn't feel like pulling out the magic bag of tricks every single time, then I was cheating on her.  With a White woman!  (For the record, my wife and I are both Black.) 

Also, I started noticing that she's only drop the act a bit if she was drunk.  It was clear she was self-medicating to go through with sex.  Once I saw what the deal was, the sex dropped precipitously.

In the beginning, he was all about himself. Till I suggested that there were 2 people involved, then it became as you have written. Then script, then rejection and then nothing. And told me it was to "punish" me. Sick. What. An. Idiot.

Kind of hard to "punish" a person who has lost interest in the other due to the abusive bs.

Waifed

Are you sure about multi orgasm?

A lot of these women have FAKE orgasms, as you know they are great actress!

Pearl! Lol don't make the man doubt!

haha! 

Haha

Fantastic posts here!    And the disconnect between actual intimacy and sexuality seems obvious to me.    Does any one know if this kind of disconnect is a  common feature of BPD and Non interactions?

Out of the blue,

Her: ":)on't even try that making love crap with me. I want you to f**k me the way I want it, when I want it".

Me: What?

Her: Silent sneer.

Me: Silent reflection.

Abandoned by her father. Verbally abused, neglected, and unprotected by her HPD/NPD mother. Sexually molested by her soul sick mothers brother and others in the "family".

Today when I think of her I can't help but see in my minds eye those very few pictures of that sweet little nine year old girl with the blond curls and bright blue wounded eyes.

And I am helpless.

It breaks my heart... .completely.

My personal solution for Pedophiles = Ready. Aim. Fire!

 

my xBPDgf didn't like to refer to it as "sex" ~ that was too direct and she preferred to call it "being intimate".  and was it ever!  was it "porn star sex"?  no. i've seen that in porn movies and i've even had my fair share of it, but not w/her.  ever.  i have a lot of personal experience to draw on when i say that sex w/her was very different and more intimate than i'd ever had with any other.  she led me to a place i didn't even know existed!  there was almost always romance, foreplay, and intimacy... (in fact, it was not "genital based" as had so often been the case with my other lovers).  she often set a safe, inviting atmosphere with lighting, music, pillows, etc... .it never felt rushed, it always felt authentic, a lot of eye contact, very present and in the moment, etc... .

maybe we just really 'clicked' in that dept.  <shrug>  she did tell me that in her past r/s's (with both men and women, altho she's not really attracted to women, ?) she didn't always feel safe, often felt used/objectified, often dissociated during sex (had to go 'somewhere else' in her mind).  that in her r/s's she would feel safe OR sexually attracted to the other person,  but never both, until me.  part of that may have been that  9 x out of 10 i waited for her initiate sex, b/c of her [alledged] past sexual abuse, b/c i never wanted her to feel that way with me (used/objectified).

it also didn't hurt that she was multi-orgasmic, in a seemingly effortless way, and it made me feel like the best lover on the planet!  :)

this is one of the biggest reasons it was/is so hard to let go of her... .b/c it was awesome!  i've never had that before and the odds (based on past record) are highly unlikely that i ever will again.  breaks my heart.  who said it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all?  he was an idiot,  lol !

i don't think i could ever be that great again with anybody else.  i felt so nourished emotionally.  sometimes the energy exchange was so intense it felt like we became one, sometimes it felt like an out of body experience.  laugh if you want.  i wish i could say i was exaggerating... .hyperbole... .waxing nostalgic.  but i'm not and, frankly, i'd rather have lived the rest of my rather mundane life in the dark, than to have experienced that and then have it yanked away, never to be felt again.

Ucm

Are you sure she was borderline?

oh yeah, Dx'ed.  overall cookie cutter BPD with all the bells and whistles (cutter, overdoser, suicide attempts/gestures/threats, head banger, abuser of her meds, eventually a 5th a day+ raging alcoholic, casual unprotected sex, black&white splitter, liar, cheater, unstable r/s's, eating disorders/anorexia/bulimia/binge&purge, bi-polar, PTSD, anxiety, unstable moods/self-image/r/s's/behavior," intense unregulated emotions, etc).  there's more but i'm getting nauseaus just trying to remember all her symptoms.  suffice it to say, i researched it thoroughly and have been reading on these boards 5 months now... .she hits most of the 9 criteria.

it doesn't make sense, you're thinking?  yeah, ME TOO!  a few possible explanations:

1 ~ 256 manifestations of BPD so presentation is on a broad spectrum

2 ~ sex was almost completely on her terms, i never pushed her sexually or asked for my sexual needs to be attended, so i was no threat sexually and she could really relax and be herself

3 ~ i think she's a lesbian at heart (but she can't cope with or come to terms w/ being that)

i didn't mean to give the impression that it was the bomb all the way from beginning to the end ~ it certainly was not. i wrote my post at 5;30AM and fell back asleep.  should have added that our first time together was so blissful i think (in retrospect)  she felt engulfment and that when i went to leave that night i think it was fear of abandonment (again, in retrospect), she panicked and pulled back.  it was so palpable.  it changed over the last year or so until she was so unraveled and i felt so much anger/so little trust for her, that we were sexless, h*ll even affectionless,  (and had been for some time) and i walked away, broken myself now.

Never can be sure... She did get the flushed chest and all when she would orgasm.  There was one thing I did notice about her that I have never experienced with another woman. Most women are sensitive "down there" and you have to take your time for them to become aroused and desensitized.  She was NEVER sensitive down there.  She was ready to go, always. 

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I always wonder how these women hook best men and unfortunately if a genuine woman fall in love with one of you guys who have been in these relationships, takes a very very long time to gain your trust even sometimes impossible.

I can back that up!

Wow, ucm, a very powerful story indeed.    My ex was also multiorgasmic as well, so I get that feeling of being a great lover.  But never the intimacy that you described.  I'm sort of jealous.  But then again, it's gone for you, so I can respect that pain.

I gather that you didn't see dissociation for yourself during your times together.   Do you think that all the attention may have been a ritualization of some kind?    Were there some common traits in the intimacy that were repeated?   

Very curious here since your experience is markedly different from the others from this thread and a previous thread!

D

Like many on here it will take me a LONG time to trust another woman. It's really unfortunate. My sexual confidence as well as my general confidence is deeply in the dumps.

I just remembered this. Regarding depersonalization and dissociation. My ex did this twice... .We were in the middle of it and all of a sudden he just broke away from me and started pleasuring himself like I wasn't even there. I was dumbfounded I didn't even know what to do. I was just laying there like a complete idiot! It wasn't like it was all part of it it was like I wasn't there. ( I felt bad like I must not please him and he knows how to do it better. It was all about the act and end result not the act of love.) I felt like I could have gotten up and left and he wouldn't of even known it. The first time was maybe a few months in so I think I waited just it out and didn't know what to say. The next time he did it I knew him better so I basically made a comment like hey over here and he snapped out of it.

I did make a comment to him before that sex wasn't all about the end result that it was about making love. Don't always have to orgasm. He looked at me like I had 2 heads!

Geez. What was I thinking!

right, i didn't see her dissociating but that doesn't mean she wasn't, at least partially.  i'm not sure what you're asking re ritualization and common traits?

my ex, she was very wounded as a little girl... .she was very sensitive, probably overly so but also in a spiritual way... . gifted, like psychic, intuitive... .very spiritual, and b/c she was so sensitive and spiritual she tried to be conscious of other people and the impact of her behavior on them.  me especially... .at the time i thought she was bull___ting me, lying to me, about "wanting to protect me from her dark moods and behavior" b/c it hurt me so bad when she would go away... . but after having time away from her, and reading so much of others' experiences w/pwBPD, i'm beginning to think maybe she was telling me the truth.  she would go underground for sometimes days or weeks at a time, always said she was in a very dark place... .harming place... . and wanted to protect me/us from it, to not harm me and what we had.  she'd had CBT (cognitive behavioral training) and DBT (dialectical behavior therapy - the gold standard in BPD treatment) and was in fact trained in the Social Services, so what i'm trying to say is that she had all this sensitivity combined with so much training/knowledge.  she certainly had a LOT of awareness of her issues/BPD/etc. she seemed to try hard to use the DBT skills. i guess maybe that could be a big part in why she presented different to me.  

i think she was conflicted, as many people are, BPD or not.  i think she wants to be normal, but it's too scary... .requires letting down too many walls, being too vulnerable, making too many changes... .

For the first time I can't honestly say anything bad about him.  Sex was actually pretty loving and "normal".  All be it exhausting.  He wanted it every night and sometimes I just wanted to go to sleep especially if I was exhausted, if he had been a jerk all day or if I were simply not feeling well.  It always came back to haunt me the next day, however, as I got the "using sex as a weapon rage."  Huh?

I'd venture a guess that excessive sex might come under the kinds of behavior.  Especially since denying it resulted in rage.    What do you think?

The recurring theme in this thread is sex with little to no intimacy.  I experienced the same with my ex.  But my question is, why did WE stay?  What was attractive to US about this type of sex?  For me, I believe she was fulfilling a FANTASY of mine, not reality.  And, as we all know, fantasy is not lasting.  But I tried dam* hard to make the fantasy real.  I've realized I have my own intimacy issues to take a look it. :light:

At the end, she accused me of her not having that "emotional connection" she supposedly had that with the love of her life before me (the guy who coldly left her and most likley cheated), but she was still wrapped up in him 3 yera into our r/s (after our first kid basically) so I don't know. Maybe it was me? Very confusing.

Turkish ... I actually think I am BPD. My T has said it is entirely likely given my behavioural/situational history - she says I am functioning much better than she would expect for someone with BPD but ... she doesn't know about this latest mess I have found myself in which is so indicative of my life history.

I say this because my R/s's were/are also very messy ... .and I can relate to being hung up on the one who 'got away' - the one who rejects me is the closest one to my primary rejector/s ... the child inside me wants nothing more than to seduce that one back again so my abandonment will go away ... nonsense of course ... but it is how it feels. I am going through this right now with my ex ... he hasn't 'rejected' me in the pure sense of the word ... he still wants to be with me, hang out with me, be intimate with me ... but until I can get him to sleep with me again, I will not be sated ... again, I KNOW this is both twisted and insane ... but believe me when i tell you that sexual rejection (or being cheated on) carries weight.

Her lack of 'connection' she spoke of with you is about the lack of pain/yearning ... without that, well ... it doesn't feel like love. Sad but true.

[/quote]
Her lack of 'connection' she spoke of with you is about the lack of pain/yearning ... without that, well ... it doesn't feel like love. Sad but true. [/quote]

This is an "aha moment" for me, I really believe part of the reason they don't feel "the spark" or whatever is because they feel love should feel different, not comfortable but yearning for it and not getting it, is closer to their idea of love. I remember my Ex told me he wanted to be in a relationship that you just look at each other and you start to cry you love each other so much, I think he was describing his longest relationship which I feel was probably one with intensity over intimacy. I mean don't get me wrong, I believe that you can be so in love with someone it brings you to tears, but his track record relationships makes me think it wasn't in a healthy way! Maybe it's just my ego, and "he's just not into you (me)." However, there was too much dysfunction to be just that, well that's at least what I think!

I can't get the quotes right, I give up! 

Findingmysong

I can tell you from experience (unfortunately) that love cannot be comfortable.

My track record is pretty spectacular ... .my longest r/s from when I was 18 lasted for 15 years ... and as soon as everything settled, as soon as the drama and the desperation went away ... I fell out of love with him ... I stayed to raise my kids ... but I didn't love him and I had emotional affairs with people who could not reciprocate in any way - because I needed to feel the yearning.

I have had 3 long distance relationships - my recent ex being the last - and with some of these I could get warm and comfortable because the yearning, the feeling of not being able to touch/have what I wanted was there by definition ... every one of these fell apart as soon as there was the opportunity for it to become real/cemented.

Every man I have been involved with has been emotionally or physically unavailable ... every. single. one. Married/attached men, men who lived on the other side of the country, in different countries, who categorically stated that they did not want relationships ... my ex fitted several of these ...

If you were present, real, loving and supportive ... he would not have known how to deal with that ... not because he didn't care of love you ... but because he probably has no experience of it ... it's alien territory and feels unsafe ... yes ... irony ir kinda ironic that way.

I don't think I will ever effectively get past my current ex because, of all the ___ty, crazy men I have been with ... he has managed to create this dynamic whereby he and I are 'together' but not together ... it's primarily sex-based (his withdrawal of sex and replacing me) and that also triggers me ... given his pathologies ... I think the dynamic is feeding something in him as well ... although I am not 100% on that.

For me i stayed because the idealization was so powerful I overlooked or rationalized a lot. I of course did not realize that it was a thing called idealization at the time. I thought it was his extreme love for me. This concept is still hard for me to completely get out of my system. Sex for me is not the only determining factor in a relationship it is the relationship as a whole and I wrongly thought with time these things would be ironed out. It could be pleasurable a lot of times just not intimate. Which I did crave. We had what seemed to be an intimate relationship outside of bed though so I think that made up for it. Albeit with a lot of problems. Seeing everything in retrospect out of the fog it is easier to see the dysfunction in it all. We don't always have the correct answer or even all the facts from the get go.

I choose not to beat myself up about it but definitely learn from it.

DC,

You sound exactly like my ex-wife (not the current expwBPD).  We were also married at 21/22 with a kid already on the way.  She had multiple affairs during our 19 year marriage.  And in fact we also kept reengaging.  Indeed, I stayed another two years after the divorce.  She bought a house that she knew I would like to get me to move in.  And I did indeed.  

I have been giving a lot of thought to her because we have indeed remained friends all these years.  She has, in fact, been a major source of support during this time.  

Yet I have wondered if she too wasn't PD of some kind.   Seems likely with a very strong history of sexual, physical abuse and almost complete emotional neglect by her Mom and the string of stepfathers.    She still today has been categorically unable to develop a healthy relationship of any kind now 13 years after the divorce.  

And I've wondered about that impact on me and how it fit into the current ex-relationship.  This is the topic of my therapy for the next month or so.  I think it needs exploring to see the impact on me.

I might add that my ex-wife was sexless with me.  We had sex multiple times on a daily basis when I first met her.  Then, for years it was once a month.  Then once every three months.  Then at the end one time in one year.  

It makes you take stock of yourself when you realize that both your long term relationships were with people who had personality disorders.  I was so committed to both of them.   Perhaps I should have just been committed?

DC, I think you might look into answering that question about yourself.  It's certainly worth exploring and you might find some real insight and guidance.   And peace.

Like many of us here, we seem to ask that question if we, ourselves, aren't BPD.  

Just my thoughts!   What do you think?

D

TWAL:

I to have a long history of neglect and some abuse. I wasn't sexually abused in my childhood but there were sexual elements to my neglect (brothers leaving me alone so they could go and be with their girlfriends, a mother who remarried and remarried) ... but I was raped by 2 male friends when i was 14 ... so, I got there eventually.

I also became sexless with my LTR ex ... well, he insisted on there being sexual contact but it became a kind of caricature of sex - very dysfunctional.

I am not completely sure about the question you mean? Why was I involved with a PD male? I think I know why (but I am not sure that protects me from doing it again and it certainly isn't helping me disentangle) ... or did you mean  do I have a PD? (I am fairly certain I do. I always knew that my abandonment stuff was beyond an issue; that it was a pathology).

damage control,

Thanks for the response back, I appreciate it. My Ex's past relationships seemed dysfunctional; a lot of breaking up and getting back together, name calling etc. Even his longest relationship, which was 7 years, I slowly learned that they broke up a lot, so it wasn't so perfect. Also, I think they had a connection because they met each other when they were teenagers and had seemed to have tougher childhoods so I'm sure the bonded over that. I've met her, she is best friends with his sister in law, but she is married and had 2 kids and seems happy.

So, I think he never really had a healthy relationship. He had his "druggie" relationship, with this woman which lasted a few years, with lots of dysfunction, but all that drama he's used to. Then the girlfriend before me was supposedly "cold," but I don't know if I believe that now, because he might tell the next girlfriend that I'm "cold" because I refused to be friends with him, who knows! Although, when we were breaking up he told me I was the nicest and most caring girlfriend that he had. When we decided to get back together the last time, he mentioned that he always dated “bhites.” If that’s what he wants, that’s not me and I’m looking forward to being with someone who can handle being in a loving relationship without feeling engulfment etc. I also think that some of the most intimate times is when we were “just friends.” Being just friends of course was more than that since we were still very emotionally connected, still spent time together and we eventually got back together after the first breakup. I guess it's the whole close but not too close and also he can pretend we aren't really "together" but still get the intimacy.

His father is a "recovered alcoholic" or at least doesn't drink the way he did. His father was an abusive alcoholic in his past and abused his Mom physically and of course emotionally etc.  My Ex boyfriend saw the abuse when he was young and I think his Mom would go into his room to get away from his Dad sometimes, so not a good environment for a kid! He is the youngest of two brothers. His oldest brother also had issues with drugs and alcohol and the other middle brother seems to have his life together. His Mom did divorce his Dad, but obviously the damage was already done to my Ex.  My Ex boyfriend didn't talk to his Father for years, but made up with him in the past few years so they can move on.

My Ex is a recovering alcoholic and we started dating 6 months after he relapsed after being sober for 2 years or so, I know red-flag! I thought he had finally hit rock bottom and was tired of what his behavior was doing to his life. When we first started dating he was going to AA and seeing a therapist, but it was only talk therapy I think. However, after a few months he stopped going to AA meetings and didn't see his therapist except when we broke up the first time. Although, sometimes I wonder if he was telling me the truth about going back to the therapist, but I guess I just doubt him now. I know he was embarrassed about going to therapy, he got upset when I asked to him about it one time.


I'm still not sure if my Ex was a dry drunk or someone with BPD traits, but I think it was a mixture of both. He would act like a kid at times, which was endearing at times we all like to be a kid at times, but we also know when to grow up. He still had his baby blanket, not sure if that proves some kind of attachment issue but it seems to go along with it. My Ex boyfriend had major anxiety issues which he was taking medication for, but by the end of our relationship he stopped taking it. He also told me he had OCD, and the type that he had was the one with obsessive thoughts. My Ex was someone with a lot of emotional issues and he just brought me down with him and I stayed for the ride.

findingmysong, i think you nailed that right on the head.  that is the EXACT same experience i had with my xBPDgf. 

god bless it!  i gave her everything she wanted from me, EVERYTHING (!) and i did not get what i wanted most from her which was to be able to be acknowledged we were in a committed r/s, both to her and to her friends/family.

she lied to me, BTW.  she told me that she'd told all her friends and family about "us" but eventually i found out they either a) knew nothing abt me OR b) she'd painted me black, so they had a horribly wrong impression of who i was. i cannot express how bad i felt from that... .altho i try to remind myself that it was likely her toxic shame, being a closeted lesbian... .her fantasy was to get out of the closet but her reality couldn't fuel it.

When I first met her I waited. I didn't jump her bones the first date. If you could really call it a date. I took her to breakfast after a night at a bar. I felt like I was talking to a hooker. She told me she liked to give oral and swallowed every time. Ya... .She seemed like she was selling herself to me. So I didn't offer her any money. I left and went home alone. You see... I wasn't that interested at the time and I could have done without that. Remember... .she's a meth head. So next night she showed up at my house four o'clock in the morning. I could tell she was high. She had that whole crazy jaw thing going on that tweekers do. That was the first time I had sex with her. I kept her at arms length. I did not want her for a relationship. We kept having sex and I was almost certain that she either had been a hooker or wanted to be. A month went by. She showed up at my house bleeding. Said her father beat her up. Told me she needed to move in. WOW... Stop me. The one night stand that lasted most of a decade.

So that was her style. Not much intimacy. Like a hooker. Sex was a tool. She used it like that. She told me I was number fifty. You believe that? HAHAHAHAA ! It's true. Every word. And ya... .Porno sex... Dirty filthy anything goes rawdoggin... .it was great. Too bad she was crazy

Yep.  Mine told me she'd been with 60 people, men and women, and that was probably low, because she lied about literally everything else, not that I wanted to know or ever asked, she volunteered it because she thought it increased her value.  Deluded. And "I can get anything I want with a blowjob"; this from a 45 year old woman.  Chronologically only. Sure, I screwed her, horizontal aerobics with zero emotional content. I wanted so much more. Oh well, at least I tested negative.

Fromh2h... .Word! I tested neg... Whew! When I told my doctor what I had been through after it was over he highly recommended an HIV test. Word! And ya... I sure tried to make it more than the wild monkey dance. Once I asked her to have rose petals scattered on the bed and scented candles burning... .Hopeless romance

Perfidy,

How long was the last time that you were with her?   There's a 6 month window for HIV testing that you may need to retest.   

D

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I wouldn't say the sex with my ex was mind-blowing, but a couple things stand out in my mind that creeped me out a bit:

1) Her eyes would roll up into her head fairly frequently.

2) Occasionally after sex the ex would blankly stare up at the ceiling. I'd snap her out of it, "whats wrong, babe?". She'd cry a bit and tell me she didn't know but felt "homesick", would want to cuddle and "crawl inside of me."

Always enjoyed the cuddling, drew the line at crawling inside of me (I'd always picture Luke slicing open the Tauntaun and crawling in).  lol

Weird stuff, she denied ever being sexually abused by a family member but I am convinced otherwise.