BPDFamily.com

Food For thought... .

So many little things I noticed that weren't right, I ignored.

Her being over emotional, saying I love you so fast, no friends, stormy relationships with everyone at work, past and present.  Sad stories from life, child abuse (sexual) from early age. She always stated, "I'm just existing". No real sense of herself.

Bad with money. Unreliable

Always late.

Immature.

Emotionally under-developed for her age 36.

Lied about having cancer, to get me back (didn't work).

I stopped ignoring the red flags when I noticed how irrational she was.  I had to walk away.

Yikes toulou i ticked yes to all of the above, even the ol " ive got cancer" line... .

I ignored them bc I didnt want to see the truth, I denied it bc, I thought I could fix him with love ( semi bitter laugh) I denied those red flags slapping me in the face because I thought so little of myself inside... . I thought it was love, I didnt want to hear otherwise, even from my own gut.

I ignored the red flags because they weren't part of the dream!

Later discovering they were VERY MUCH part of the reality!

we ignore flags as we only see what we WANT to see... . nothing else...

another reason: I used to normalize her behaviours, which  means, everything that seemed nasty, or her dramatic up and dows, or her rages, or her inability to cope socially with people, etc.etc... i wanted to accept them so i saw them as normal... even if they arent.

and the last reason: i wanted to rescue her so badly... i thought it was me who could make a difference in her life! i felt like the knight in the shiny armour coming to her rescue, so i would cope and normalize her dramatic behaviours which in reality were massive red flags.

Even now, after the break up, i tend to think that she needs help! i still normalize her abusive, manipulative and awful behaviours... . sigh...   i need to re-read her awful emails or FB messages to wake up... . but i am still falling in the trap.

seems like you are talking about mine! is like she is talking... . are they all the same?

The red flags were waving from the beginning.   My gut kept telling me to leave.  I stayed for 4 months and at the end my anxiety being around her was to much to take.

Yes!

the anxiety was crazy, gut wrenching... .

I don't think all of our experiences are a coincidence.

Why do we ignore anything? So we don't have to deal with it? Hope it goes away? Because we don't want to loose the dream they created and we don't want to be alone again?

For me to have went along for the BPD ride for a year said a lot. Ignoring red flags etc was a wake up call to me.

I am visiting as I usually post on the "family" part... . as my BPD person is my mother.  However, I do recognize the red flag stage.  After my divorce in which the separation started in 2007 I dated a lot.  I had been reading a book by Beverly Engel called "Emotional Abuse".  It is like a work book in which you answer questions.  Then I dated a Sociopath.  He was just your garden variety Sociopath if there is such a thing, very much a user. I didn't know that at first.  However, after his first irrational rage I should have walked away.  I explained it away.  There were other things also.  I actually broke up with him 5 months after we started dating, then I went back to him without him even asking.  I ended up staying with him for a total of a year and a half.  After he hung up on me on Christmas Eve, 2010 calling me a bhit, I quit dating. 

In the book "Emotional Abuse" I did notice earlier in this relationship that my self-esteem had gotten worse rather than better.  Now I am happy to say that my self esteem is getting much better.  I don't know why I... . well let me rephrase that.  I did know.  I knew that he was a loser.  I just didn't like to be rejected.  I wanted him to fight for me.  Why would he?  Who I really wanted to fight for me was my ex husband of 25 years.  I think I am still processing that one.

I just want to add, that I saw the red flags from the beginning.  I didn't know that he was a sociopath.  I just knew that he was a user.  The thing that I was attracted to is his listening skills.  I needed someone to listen to me, and he did.  I believe he also tried to become who it was he thought I needed.  It was one day when reading the checklist for Sociopaths that I just about fell off my chair.  He had every one of those traits.  I made a very flimsy excuse and cancelled the upcoming weekend.  I never saw him again after that, although I continued talking to him for another 6 months, off and on on the phone.  Why?  I know it is crazy.  I guess when he hung up on me on Christmas Eve, he did me a favor.  I quit dating anyone.  I knew that everyone was pretty much the same only with a different face.  My picker was broken. 

What I picked up on is the plurality in the word flags. I think another good question to ask myself would be " how many red flags does it take?". Now that its been a while I have to wonder. Aside from her coming right out and telling me about her mental illness. (And she did) So it's like this. I didn't have to guess. I doubted, but I didn't have to guess. If that wasn't enough then the meth use surely should have been. It wasn't even like the red flags were subtle warnings. It's like, ok Perfidy, it doesn't take a ton of bricks to fall on your head does it! So we ignore the red flags because of our own issues. Low self esteem. Low self respect. A sick ego. FOO issues. Lust, sex addiction, narc tendencies and probably a lot of stuff we aren't even aware of. The most primal reason would be propagation of the species. Pick a reason. It's up to each individual to reach a conclusion why the warnings were ignored. It up to the individual to make a decision to do anything about the red flags in the future. It can really make a huge difference just by asking your self one simple question. What do you want?

I'm going to chime and say: Hey, that sounds just like MY ex! Apparently, I'm in good company here.

I ignored numerous 'red flags' too. The excuse I made at the time was  "Well, we're in our 40s. If we didn't have broken relationships and friendships and tensions with family, it would be odd wouldn't it? That's part of life... . '

In retrospect, tensions and challenges are part of life, but completely cutting everyone off in your life, not speaking to a single member of your family and being estranged from most of your friends? Not part of life.

Also, I really should paid attention to the fact that my ex was already married - to a woman who fled the scene and didn't even stick around for a divorce.

I don't think my picker is 'broken' so much as mis-calibrated. If I work on better understanding myself, I can align my 'picker' to make healthier choices :)

I ignored the red flags because I wanted to believe that I had found a guy who was healthy and with who I had off the charts chemistry.  Like I have said before I know because of my past r/s history guys who I have that type of chemistry with always have some type of issue most of the time they end up being alcoholics (able to hide it for about a month) then I figure it out when spending more time around them. This ex like the past 2 I am certain is at least dependent on alcohol and pot as he partakes in both following work everyday. Fine for some people me not so much. I ignored all the stuff he told me about his family and I ignored how instantly close we were. I ignored because I wanted that relationship and all the things he was mirroring to me. It's my FOO stuff I now know I try to get people to love me the way my mom couldn't & I pick individuals who are incapable of doing so just like my mom.

The single most baffling aspect of the relationship with BPDex. It was only with her that I let the warnings go un-heeded. Every other relationship, except my marriage, I walked out on when trouble repeated itself. This is the only relationship that I feel I acted as a codependent. It is also the only relationship I've had with a mentally ill drug addict.

Exact same with me.

I have had numerous relationships where if a red flag was raised and waving in the wind I bailed out.

But with my BPD I ignored at least a dozen if not more in the first 2 months alone.

That is what gets to me.

I walked out on the two previous ones who ended up being alcoholics when I learned that they were. I simply said I love you & it is because I love you that I can not continue to stick around and become an enabler. I left and never looked back. Like the rest of you I've gone on dates some up to 3 or 4 and the flags come out & I walk. I had a T tell me to read the book "keeping the love you find" I would suggest to anyone to read this as it really opened my eyes. We don't walk from these people bc they spark this knowing that this book talks about.

Single most baffling thing to me was why when I heard her voice over 20 yrs after getting dumped... I still had any feelings for her... . and they were back 100% instantly. Which is a clue to the answer.

When we are babies we want unconditional love and if we get plenty of it, we are happy, have a secure base and go out and over time boldly grow up want to be on our own and are confident and whats known as securely attached. However when we get parents that are inattentive, abusive, inconsistent, cold... instead of the unconditional love we need... . we react different ways, often we are insecurely attached... we don't trust our r/s, we keep people at a bit of a distance as we have been hurt by those we trust, etc. In my case I was diagnosed ADHD... because I was always anxious, fidgety and distracted. In any event... when you meet someone that seems to supply unconditional love... . mixed with some red flags... a securely attached person would typically heed the red flags and step aside. However if you are insecurely attached... the need is so deep and strong you almost have no choice... . you are compelled to get all the unconditional love you needed but didnt get.

It gets worse... after a while with a pwBPD... and them idealizing you ... you come to idealize them and put them on a pedestal... deep down you are putting them in the position of a primary r/s... where a "good parent" should be, but where you just had an empty hole in your soul.

So... the red flags come up and your common sense is short circuited... because you are not relating to the pwBPD as an equal, you are the child in a parent-child r/s... . and don't realize it. So they scold you... you take it and internalize it and assume it is your fault... though you don't normally do that as a grown up. You want your independence from them, but miss them like crazy, etc... . it is all weird, as it is old trauma and needs driving both sides of the r/s, not what is currently happening.

Might sound like mumbo jumbo... but if/when they dump you... . you feel hurt all out of proportion to what you would expect to feel... because deep down you feel like you are losing not just "a parent"... . but the unconditionally loving one you never had... then got and then lost... . it is more like the death of a parent than anything else. You don't jump back up and go out and shake it off... you can sink in to a deep depression, and typically have to go through the grieving process like you would for the death of someone very close.

It is hard to view the r/s that way... . took me a long time to get it and accept it as that. However I dated a lot of other gals and got dumped by plenty as well... and the only one that devastated me and the only one I still felt anything for after even 5 or 10 yrs... was my pwBPD. After a while the sex got unexplainably creepy... . somehow it all became clear the issue is attachment... for BOTH the pwBPD and those of us who were devastated by the breakup with a pwBPD. Some people date and have sex with pwBPD... and move on like it was nothing... . if you are like that ... . why are you here?

The idealizing stage of the BPD r/s combined with the pwBPD's refusal to respect our personal boundaries... lets them push through our defenses that keep most people at arm's length and protect us from getting hurt. We let them get close, accept them as trustworthy, and put them in a superior to us parent over child position... . then when they switch to being clingy... . we don't get it. We would NEVER want to leave them... and when they turn to being a hater... we still don't want to leave and end up being abused, coming back for more and more... . like a child... internalizing it as our fault and trying to do better, but never questioning the big picture... . why would someone that loves us scream yell, paint us black, and so forth.

That is why we ignored the red flags and passed go and collected a world of hurt.

She told me her extremely colorful life story a week after meeting. So many  red-flag    red-flag  but I hadn't dated in seven years and she was related to someone I work with who is "" normal and has her hit together. I just figured this girl was the black sheep and for some reason I am drawn to those who need saving (my issue I am actively working on).

Her history read like an insane soap opera. Remember Passions? This topped that... .

-pregnant at 16 with an older married man's baby

-gave baby up and married a guy she met while pregnant

-new husband tried to kill himself over her. He left her for a year came back... . marriage lasted about 8mo. He got his boss pregnant and they split up.

-Jumped into a polyamorous relationship for a year until the woman and man split... . then she stayed with the man for a few months.

-Declared herself a lesbian. Had her first girlfriend.

-Left girlfriend for a 350lb lesbian who didn't put up with her hit.

-Left 350lb gf for first girlfriend.

-Left first girlfriend for a girl she met in an S&M group.

-First GF and 350lb lesbian hook up.

-Leaves S&M GF to "steal back" her 1st girlfriend.

-Leaves 1st GF for S&M girlfriend again.

-Splits witn S&M girlfriend and hooks up with a girl who rapes her.

-S&M girlfriend rescues her and saves her. They live together a few months have an altercation and S&M girlfriend hooks up with a new partner for 5yrs.

-Moves to another state and dates a cop. Asks her to marry her. Cop dumps her after a year.

-Ex dates cops friend-a prison psychiatrist (ha ha). Tumultuous 1yr relationship.

-Ex loses job and gambles her 401k and savings away. Racks up 30k in debt.

-Ex moves here and meets me. My 1st lesbian relationship. Comes across as strong and secure (so the opposite)!

-Ex tells me the prison psych is stalking her. She had to change her number and move to get away from her (and file a RO).

-A month into my relationship my ex is talking to the prison psych (I find out later the psych was in the process of moving here to be with her when I came into the picture).

-Ex breaks up with me 6x in a little over a year. Blocks my number so I cannot contact her at all but comes back each time.

-Ex breaks up with me the same day my best friend says she can't stay friends because I am gay. The next day, my ex is dating her S&M ex who lives states away.

-Ex returns a month later. We date for 3mo and get tattoos during this time (a mistake that is costing me $800 to fix).

-Ex starts hanging with a mutual friend of ours. Makes comments if we were not together this girl would be interested. We all go out one night on a week night and my ex stays out til 4am with this girl and takes her home to "sleep it off"---a month later dumps me saying we are too different but best friends and she will always love me.

-I question all this and catch the friend and ex in a lie. Ex tells me I betrayed her, blocks me on FB, changes her number and deactivates her email.

Haven't heard a word since November 15th. Don't plan on it anytime soon.

Why did I ignore my probably BPD "diagnosis" in year 1 ("this shouldn't be so difficult... . this woman has to have some kind of PD.".

Oh yeah, the thought that I could "fix" anything. Be the man to make the r/s work, even bought into the gaslighting in the beginning (like me being sent to therapy because I was a "bad communicator".

And I wanted kids, was getting older. My idealization of the nuclear family I never had.

In the first week of dating/not dating (the push-pull started from the beginning), I was so frustrated that I almost ended even the friendship. But I thought, "Love can conquer all!" But it wasn't love, it was need. On both our sides. I needed to rescue the Hermit-Waif, and she needed the White Knight and a replacement for her broken heart over the bf who cheated on and dumped her, which 18 months out, she was still hopelessly pining away for. It was later that I got Queen, and Witch. By then, I was trapped due to the kids. No, I wanted the kids like she did. I should have ended if after she dumped me in Y1, but I let her FOG recycle me, when I should have walked away, instead of proving it could work. A year out of my life would have been no big deal, but I didn't want to waste what I had invested. So foolish. Now I have 6 years out of my life, in middle age, and instead of 8 months wasted, now it is 6.

And I should add... . as the relationship progressed she dumped me so many times I sunk into a deep depression. I really was no longer making her a priority because she hurt me so badly. I would show up late picking her up to do stuff and was only seeing her 1-2x a week and usually with a group (and she lived minutes from me). I was feeling smothered and that nothing I did was right. I was talked to like garbage and left only for her to return like I was the lucky one she was coming back.

and yet I miss her sometimes. Why? I can't figure that out. There were parts of her I loved a lot but the betrayal was hard for me to bear. Everytime I bought tickets to something or had something special planned she bailed on me. It hurt beyond words. The day before she dumped me I actually talked to a dear friend. I told her I wanted a girlfriend not to be a "caregiver". I felt I needed to constantly tend to her needs and I want a family. I never would have had that with her. She needs to be the kid, the only kid and not that it is a bad thing (I was raised by a single parent) I would have been raising a kid by myself in the long run. Also, I did not trust her enough to have her on any legal documents or tied to my bank accounts due to her poor impulse control.

That speaks volumes.

Turk,

  I hear you about the investment part. We put in so much time you want it to work... .

thing is, it just wasn't meant to.

I am 38 and want to have a child if I can. I was 36 when I met her. There is 2yrs of my childbearing years gone forever.

I am ok with this. I've come to terms with the fact I could be in the same situation as you are with kids in the middle. I hope that doesn't come across badly, nothing but respect for you. The immaturity was apparant from the beginning. I was just in awe and flabbergasted by it. There was no sense to our arguments. I thought I was crazy. I wasn't helping by trying to rationalize because it was someone with a 3yr old emotional maturity and what three year old wants to hear an explanation. What they are feeling is what they are feeling.

My therapist says I am a little BPD and was raised by a waif. The only difference between me and my ex is that I want help. This relationship kicked me in the arse. It hurt more than anything. Still does.

Charred you are spot on! This is exactly what the book I mentioned talks about. The point is that no matter how much we work on ourselves we will always attract a person similar to what we have always attracted. However, when we have done our work we will attract one who is as healthy as us but is in a place to work through those childhood hurts. Then together you help each other heal. You get that unconditional love and they get whatever was missing for them in childhood. Good stuff!

This is POWER THREAD!  I knew there was a reason to log on this morning and I ended up reading every word of every post in this thread!  Charred post was both hard to read and true for me.

I spent 3+ years in a r/s with my uBPD/NPD where I saw red flags from the start and stayed with someone who would outwardly say that she'd happily push my boundaries.  That's not love.  The emotional abuse/emotional blackmail was so constant that I accepted it as normal.  I expressed to my T and others over the past 2 years that I feared the r/s was built on need fulfillment for her.  I also feared that either if she didn't need me anymore the r/s would end or if I left the r/s she'd just quickly move on to another sucker.  That would then prove she didn't really love me or that I was somehow unlovable.  I have never been in an r/s, including my 13 year marriage, where I became filled with such self doubt.  I never imagined that I would remain in an r/s that was so emotionally abusive and that I'd continue to either rationalize it or internalize the issues as mine.  Maybe it's just the nature of an r/s with such PD traits?

Now that the r/s is clearly over for me, I'm not afraid to dig in and deal with that hurt child in me and find ways to heal myself.  I'm going to hit it straight on why I ignored the red flags with this person?  Why the chemistry seemed so out of this world with this person while I accepted emotional abuse like I've never endured in any r/s?  Why I constantly ignored my gut feelings that something was very wrong throughout the r/s?  I'm about 40 days out of the r/s and 30 days of n/c, and the realities of the r/s are hitting me by the day.  Why did I have to get out to finally understand that my reality wasn't her reality and that she wasn't capable of a healthy adult r/s?  So many questions and now so much hope for this rough time to be the point in my life where I will find true inner awareness and change that will impact my life forever.  Pain + Awareness + Growth = The Gift!

Lol,

  It goes back to that theory "water seeks it's own level". We did attract these unhealthy people... .

because we ourselves are not healthy. We may be healthier but no happy, secure person would allow themselves to be treated as shyty as we were.

That's why therapy and growth (for us) is so important. Our exes won't grow or get better. This is their life... . doesn't have to be ours.

Madison,

  You are spot-on. It really is about treating your core wounds. You were a loveable child, you just never felt it. You developed patterns based on how you were raised. These patterns need to change, the blueprint needs to be rewritten.

I am working with a wonderful therapist that is helping me by basically re-parenting me. She doesn't take shyt and I am hoping within a year I won't either. The great thing is all of us KNOW there is something wrong. We are not in denial. We can fix it. It's following through.

We can either pine for the unhealthy person or put in the hard work to find something better. I think we get scared we can't find better and part of that was how we were treated and hurt by our BPD. We were beat down.

Yes. Fear is the mind killer. Our pwBPDs operate out of their core fears. They can't help it. It's what drives them. Mine is aware of hers now, but is teetering on the edge still. I hope she gets better after she moves out and away from me, even if she is filling that empty hole with a new guy. We are aware of our fears and can put hard work in to change. That is the difference.

If I understand this disorder right, they almost drug is up with being overly into the relationship. We see "flags" but they overcompensate with some amazing albeit mirroring or projected qualities as well. We get sucked into their illusion of perfection. Someone else said on here it's a reflection of ourselves really. An emotionally confident person would accept the flags for what they are and walk away. Whereas we make excuses take another hit of the drug and stay. So as much as we cast scornful thoughts into them. The only power we have is to look inward and look at why it is WE ignored them. For me it's all of the above combined with my " white knight syndrome" and self esteem issues. Someone on here told me the gift of a relationship with a borderline is the "wake up call" it provides us to ask this very question "why did I ignore the red flags" find and answer through research, intersection and therapy. To make ourself more emotionally healthy so that we can find the relationship we truly deserve and one that will last because we are in a healthy place to contribute to one and receive it.

Thanks guys.

We attract the same type as our pwBPD... . and really feel strong sparks for others with same disorder... . I managed to avoid the last few gals that I felt the sparks with... . and they showed their crazy side pretty quick.

We also tend to go after people like our parents... and I knew my father was NPD... it is impossible to miss. My mother ... . I never thought was disordered... she seemed totally different than my pwBPD... she was quiet, emotionally repressed instead of seeming like her emotion control was on high, etc. So... assumed she was okay... despite her having lost her mother when she was 5 yrs old and then being dumped by her father on her grandparents... till she was 13. Well... turns out that my mom went through some serious abandonment by no fault of her own... her mother died, and her father went in to WW2 and then stayed in a while to help support his 3 daughters... she was oldest and took care of other two.

Read up on "waif BPD"  and was in for more bad news... . some people act out their disorders ... . are outgoing with emotions, with crazy acts... what we read about on these boards and lived through with people like my pwBPD. Others act in ... . they internalize everything. My mom's grandparents were old school strict... kids "were to be seen and not heard"... and she learned not to complain, and not to seek or show affection. So... where does all that hurt and crazy go? It comes out all over the place in passive-aggressive behavior... done with diabolical shrewdness. Anyone that is around my mom likes her a lot, at first... and then when they spend a lot of time around her they feel horrible and can't put their finger on the reason.

I didn't see any similarity between my mom and my pwBPD... because they acted out their problems differently... but both have same kind of issues. My mom's are deeper seated...

Was so glad to have grown up unscathed by any of my FOO issues... . and so naive as to have believed that was true.

My exBPDgf... claimed I was very N, maybe NPD. Worried me, I had testing and came up about 1/2 normal N... certainly not NPD, though I can act like a jerk (like my dad) when attacked and few people come back for more of that. I knew I wasn't like my pwBPD... . have a steady job history, very stable, have a few long time friends and am generally the calm in any storm around me.

However I didn't think of my mother as BPD... and I never compared myself to my mom much... she is bright, educated and does what she wants... beyond that I didn't see many parallels. Then I read about how the turning in waif BPD manifests in guys... . called "Cassanova complex"... and low and behold it rang a bit true. I didn't lose my mother early... she is still around, but she was so infuriating I moved out from her house when I was 13. My dad was easier to deal with (they divorced when I was 13.)  Have had on and off contact with her since then. So am I BPD? Not by all the criteria, but the Cassanova descriptions... fit ... just add some inhibition.

Why am I going on and on... . water finds its own level. We look for what we grew up around... and unfortunately the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree. If you are drawn to pwBPD... and have sparks, wild attraction... . chances are one or both of your folks were somewhere along that NPD/BPD spectrum... and it is also likely that you ... . YOU... have been scathed by your FOO and if truthful with yourself, will find you resemble BPD/NPD very strongly... but perhaps differ in the acting out/in  direction.

My mother is unexpressive of emotions, she is awkward hugging and speaks in a monotone. My pwBPD is hyper-expressive, she speaks like a highly animated kindergarten teacher... very expressive emotionally... . but both are disordered and toxic to be around.

I would discourage reading up on the types of BPD folks and acting out/in... . and Cassanova complex. I used to think "the truth will set you free"... that seems like a marketing slogan now. The truth hurts and its not easy facing it... . that rings true.

Thanks... I find it hard to write this stuff... and know it is true for me and many others.

Writing it has been very helpful... I spent a long time trying to understand why I was dumped years ago, what was wrong with me... why did my dream girl leave... . then more recently; What is with her... what did I do, what is BPD... did the things that happened when I was young really change me after all?  Lately have been seeing that BPD kind of defined my exBPDgf... and that NPD explains my dad... and variations on BPD explain my attraction to my pwBPD ... . explains my mom's eccentricities and my own in some ways. Writing forces you to organize your thoughts and express complete thoughts and explain what may have been fuzzy reasoning... such that after a while your thinking sharpens up... . and you can read what you wrote and realize it doesn't make sense, something is missing, the conclusions don't add up. I am approaching 1000 posts and my earliest ones are so amazingly off of where I am now... and its largely due to expressing thoughts, getting feedback and revisiting things that didn't make sense... . like my long held assumption that I was a "non"... and had been pretty much untouched by my upbringing.

I know I was whacked across the floor by my upbringing now... . and so is everyone around me. They all seek out people that will act like their parents, and so did I. The problems of the parents are revisited in some way on the kids... and while people change a little... . mellow with age maybe, for the most part they are disturbingly consistent.

I want to see people that were insecurely attached as kids, who kept people at a distance to protect themselves, who fell in to BPD relationships... . and went on to become... . secure, healthy people without major hangups... in good relationships.  Few people look at themselves without distorting what they see with a bunches of ego defenses... . to see what they really are and need. Fewer still not only recognize the real problems... but pursue fixing them... . and I don't know any that have fixed them.

Didn't like Montel Williams or what I read of Sigmund Freud... . because what they said  made me recoil... . ego defensively. Montel spoke out on ADHD and claimed it was a behavior problem, was the fault of the parents and the contention around the kids... and basically that we were trying to medicate a behavior problem that grew out of a toxic environment. Freud said we were stuck reliving childhood traumas(repetition compulsion) and had subconscious desires to be with our mother/father(Oedipus complex) and used ego defenses to justify whatever we did that was somewhat the opposite of what we feared. (Reaction formation)... . so if we fear death we might bungee jump or parachute.  To me... it sounded like crap... but it wasn't.

So apologies to Montel (who I still don't like... he is hocking 100%+ interest rate loans on TV)... . and Freud.

Now if we can just redo our lives with good parenting we are set? That is hitch I think.

Charred (and everybody). I got this book a few months ago and started reading it. Excellent in understanding my pwBPD, and also a little bit about myself. I thought it would be dry, but it was fascinating from the beginning. I'll get back to it after she is gone in a few weeks. I just read the first and one of the end chapters.

Becoming Attached: First Relationships and how They Shape Our Capacity to Love (http://www.books.google.com/books/about/Becoming_Attached.html?id=qrxIW0ITbgkC)

I think it will help me with my kids, too.

Turkish... .

Read it, "Becoming Attached" is a very good book, its where much of my insight came from. Left me feeling sorry for monkeys.

"Healing Developmental Trauma" is good as well, you can learn a lot about ego defenses from it... . but there isn't a great deal that heals that trauma... . as far as I can tell. Re-parenting seems to be a marketing ploy for T's, not something that is reality based.

I am in my 50's and this stuff goes back over 40 yrs... still the ADHD symptoms are still present... . but when I practice mindfulness and get in the moment... my stress and symptoms are gone... which is why I think Montel was correct (borrowed his ideas from others no doubt... but correct.)

If I had it to do all over again... . I would want a chance to pick my parents.

I have learned more than I ever wanted to about attachment theory... . in order to understand what happened, my pwBPD, our r/s... and myself. A light is shined on it all... see it clearly... understand the problem, and the obvious solution, universally is good parenting. When you miss out on that I am not sure how the mess can get cleaned up. Been seeing a T for over a year... pointed me to Mindfulness which helped my stress and ruminating, but not my FOO issues. I think it is all nature... its the norm. Animals in the wild get traumatized ... . they run around trying to avoid being food... . lot of them lose family members all the time... . it is nature. Just keep hoping we can do somewhat better than just playing out the cards we were dealt.

Charred... . I feel that BPD is rooted in nature. It seems to be a mode of survival. An instinct. Just an observation. I've read the studies with chimps. They aren't monogamous. They have rivalries. They cheat and reject.

I ignore all of the red-flag's because she validated the sad lonely boy from childhood inside of me. I did it for me, it was my need that over-shadowed the red-flag 's. It was too good to be true and I fell into the rabbit hole.

I  never felt mine was too good to be true. I  might have a bigger problem with myself.  well be processing that one for a while.

Survival of the fittest... and adaptation and all that.  Hmm, well, BPD actions... almost seem  like they are mental chameoleon's... . they change who they are to blend in with the surroundings... and to hunt.

Not her.

The honeymoon / seduction phase was 6-7 months tops. That was too good to be true. The juice was not worth the squeeze.

I stayed in the r/s as long as I did because I felt obligated to the kids.

I guess I did too, because of the kids. Interestingly, she wanted out almost a year ago. But was staying for the kids. Compared herself to her mother who stayed with her abusive and cheating husband, and that it wasn't right. A friend of hers, whom I know, said she stayed with her abusive and cheating husband "for the kids" and that it wasn't right. Severe gaslighting and projection, since the X was the emotionally and verbally abusive one and in the end the cheater.

I wonder if I asked her, "what were you red flags about me?" what her answer would be.

That's an interesting question. I would think mine would "project" her red flags on me as she did with all of the abusive behaviors in the end. Not all, but some.

I don't think mine stayed in it for the kids. She was the first through the D word around as a threat. She always said it's better for the kids due to the fighting but would not take steps to correct it. I was always the first to set-up / suggest couples counseling. Thinking back now there was more than one guy.

My SIN (same as social security down there) was used with a fictious first name and my last name (odd that that whoever stole it, used my last name) and got a cellphone and charged $1700 on it. That came back to me through the internal collections at the service provider. I work for a competitive service provider and I get discounted. I've always had a phone through work and I explained to them it was not mine. With her financially setting me up for difficulties in the last few months and finding out she used to call sex lines through one of her ex's wife. I think it was her, to hide her activities or possibly calling these numbers. The service provider did not want to provide details and waved it and it got striken from  my credit report. A flag was also put on it, in case someone used my SIN again. That happened not long after we where married.

The kids are not in front of her, she's always been in front of everyone else.

It's the toughest of all questions to answer truthfully. I still lie to myself about it. I've even been lying about in on this board, propably recently. I still entertain the illusions, but here's the truth:

From day one (20 years ago) that sixteen year old girl put so much fear into me that I didn't dare to leave. I saw so many red flags among the way, but running just wasn't an option. It was more a question of survival or making the best of the situation.

Occasionally I guess I started to ignore red flags because I seemed pointless to acknowledge them. I was stuck with her anyway.

BTW sorry for posting on the wrong board, I'm "undecided".

We ignored them because we thought it would take our pain away. It would give us something bigger than ourselves to believe in. That's why we like the good times better. They're not as painful. The red flags drew us in, didn't they?

... . And in turn took on a lot more undeserved pain.

i also ignored the flags as she was my analgesic... .

my attention being focused on her prevented me from focusing on myself, on my needs , on my pain... .

it becomes a cycle... a vicious negative cycle...

I ignored the  red-flag  because during the friendship phase of years, I translated those very  red-flag  as mere quirks of her personality. I spent so much time trying to get to know her that, that by the time round 1 started, I was hooked in all areas. By the time I realized what I was even dealing with, ripping out the hooks, which I am still doing, means ripping out pieces of me in the process. Each piece I rip out, is another layer of me that is irrevocably lost in the brutal wake. There is only so much one can rip out if themselves before nothing is left.

Ignored a lot of red flags. I think I was afraid of feeling lonely again. There was a point when we'd been together 2-3 years that I thought about cutting my losses and coming out a lot stronger person, but I never followed through. She also made a very big deal about breaking up with her bf before me, like she wanted me to see what a big sacrifice she had made to be with me.

I was very naive about r/s back then and thought I could fix her. I thought the red flags waving were part of every r/s. I also have some separation anxiety myself and got sad just thinking about us saying goodbye to eachother.

Answering this question should tell you a lot of how/why you came to be in such a dysfunctional relationship. For one thing I was very NAIVE and hadn't developed a healthy definition of love and/or boundaries. I was also very lonely. My health with diabetes wasn't what it could have been back then, so I was not feeling well and was not confident. I hadn't had much luck dating and had been determined to make ANYTHING work. So here comes a young single mom recently divorced for the second time who seemed so cute and vulnerable, and I knew what I was getting into, but dove in head-first anyway. I believed that the other men were all bad guys, and that she was looking for something genuine, and that I was a "good guy" so it would have to work out between us. My r/s with my own mother was a little strained. Though I was smart kid with a good personality, she was hard on me... . instead of encouraging me. There's some self-esteem there that was/is in need of some healing.

Sometimes I wonder where I would be now if I was only encouraged as a child. Harvard? Yale? It's never too late to start living though. It's a wake-up call I wish I never needed.

Word for word exactly the same way for me findingmyselfagain. Mine wasn't divorced but had a child from previous r/s and young. I was 8 years older than her. The rescuing/knight in shining armor complex was strong in me.


It's never too late. Better to have an unneeded wake-up call than no wake-up call. That's the way I feel.

Thanks, for sharing all these stories! SEEMs like the  red-flags are all over we just have to pay more attention and listen to ourselves.