BPDFamily.com

hi folks,

oh i am going through a weak moment... . this morning, i was soo close to email her or text her , not based on need of soothing or comfort, but more because i miss the good times, the laughter, the fun, the chats, etc... .

as time goes, and I approach the 3 month mark after b/u, my feelings are settling down, my need to protect myself is reducing... , soon after the b/u it was easy to maintain NC, as i got all these threats & abusive texts, so, although it was painful and sad to read, i had a reason to hide away and keep NC... . for my own protection.

As time passes, my fear of threats and of her is reducing considerably, i am not afraid of her anymore, i am progressing in other areas of my life, reactivating old friends, etc... BUT i am starting to "forget" (or at least to give less power)  the bad memories, the intimidation, thecontrol etc...   and i am missing the good times i had with her! especially when friends remind me of that... .   and how i was able to understand her like no other (well, this might not be true... ), in these moments, i feel weak and want to contact... for the good times... .

i need to remember i am dealing with a pwBPD... . and as such, i would probably get a different result vs. the one i want (which is being able to sit down, as adults, talk things through, and move on)

i dont feel i "need" her anymore, is just, i wish i could chat with the good friend i met in her...

Hey!

I just had a moment where started missing her as well this morning. I remembered how she was crying badly when she failed an exam that we booth took and I remembered that I promised her to be always there for her and that it hurts me to see her crying...

But just as I started to feel sad and missing her I remembered how she reacted when I called her because I missed her and felt like crying. Cold as ice, didn't show any empathy at all. Then all the missing her and remembering the good times stopped immediately. Someone who can trait me this cold after all that we have been through is not worth it.

Hi,

Firstly congratulations on 3 months no contact.

I know exactly what you are going through. The first 3 months no contact although hard serve a real purpose in the healing process, but and this happened to me at around the 4 to 4.5 month mark, I really regressed back in my healing, i wanted to contact, I wanted some answers, I wanted to know if the new guy was already being devalued and if her honeymoon phase was coming to an end.

Short answer is, do not contact her. I didn't and it was the best thing ever for the healing process. Yes I still hurt and yes I still would still deep down like some sort of closure, validation and a show of love. But don't do it. It will take you back to day 1 in healing and also return all power to her that you have built up with 3 months no contact. I am 6 months out by the way.

Reason for not contacting:-

1. She will have a new source at this point - hard as it is, this is the case. She will have reconnected with you by now if there was no new source.

2. For the honeymoon period to be effective with the new beau, you will have been blackened as an abusive, manipulative ex, one that made her feel lower than low (this is the case even with all the wonderful things you did for her and all the wonderful things she once said to you) - any contact with her will reactivate the drama triangle whereby you will be the persecutor, she the Victim and the new beau the rescuer. Characters will shift around this triangle once your 'image' starts disintegrating - remember she forgot how amazing you were, she will eventually forget how bad you were as well.

3. You can not prepare for a conversation with her as it will never be how you expect it to be. At the moment you are black but no contact starts washing that away but not yet, far too early in the piece for that.

4. If possible, never try and find out anything about her and current relationships etc, this will set you back, if you are truly no contact at the moment then stick with it.

5. 18 to 24 months is where you need to be at if you are thinking of contacting, this is a relatively long period of time in a BPD relationship and it is then that cracks with current partner will start appearing, it is also when you will be healed enough to be able to keep both feet filrmly on the ground.

Stay strong and keep pushing forward, careful of that dip back around the 3/4/5 month mark and push forward.

thanks Dansure, you are spot on on above... i dont know for certain, but i think if i contact her, she will give me a cold treatment too. I saw her doing this a few times to friends of her who did not follow her rules, she would cut them off and treat them badly, but she would feel good about them coming back to her making her feel like they were missing so much by not having her, she used to say "silly such, her/his mistake, she/he blew it out with me and they are missing me now... . ", so, what makes me think that i would be treated any other way but cold and devaluing?... .

good reminder dansure... thanks for sharing... .

thanks Ritchie 53... that is why i turn to this site & family when i feel the knees go weak...   we all go through similar situations and we can provide wonderful feedback...

yeap, all good points... . all good points above...    particularly the point of needing a relatively long period before contact thing without falling back... if i contact her now,  it might get painful for me... and step back...

The reason I can put the 'hypothesise' on 18 to 24 month mark is that I saw it first hand with mine. Her abusive, cheating ex that she painted black attempted a contact after 20 months deep into my devaluation. She wrote back to him saying she was trying to make her current relationship work and then when I didnt react to it she claimed I didnt love her properly as I was not jealous - I tried showing her trust by not reacting, but if I had reacted I would be jealous and controlling - remember the double binds.

Fast forward three weeks she is back with him, a totally different person - with her soulmate, haven't been this happy in ages etc, I was abusive, jealous, a stalker, bunny boiler, controlling, a monster to women - it was all planned and calculated and designed to twist the knife in the wounded soul and to paint the once black ex white again. Instant no contact from me, thats all I had.

So answer is yes, try and leave it 18 months to 24 months as this will give some devaluation time. By then worst case scenario she is still into the new guy, but there will be cracks and by you contacting then, your 'whitewashing' will mirror his 'blackening'. But by that point, will you really want it?

Absolutely spot on Ritchie53!

I remember when I contacted mine after 2 months ( mind u it was the first time I ever contacted him after a b/u) only to wish him a happy bday. He later acused me of "stalking" him when he was moving on!

Never again did I contacted him after a b/u.

And right now I'm on NC and hope to keep this way forever.

Never again I want to see his face!

Yes stalking and being a bunny boiler are yet more degrading statements they make to blacken our names. No contact smashes that perception away after a couple of months of it, but then the reverse is if you dont contact and stalk them it shows you never cared for them at all - the crazy double binds again.

How do we become stalkers? In the midst of our devaluation and discard they cut us out completely, become very secretive about their new lovers, new hobbies, cut us out of events we were helping with, their careers, everything. We think its just another rage we have to overcome in the abuse cycle so we can get another couple of hours/days respite before the next big blowout. It is our quest for closure that turns us into percieved stalkers, even as far as knowing 'is this relationship over?' Yes? No? - Stop stalking me will be your answer to every question at this stage.' all her enablers will sympathise, you are now the lowest of the low stalkers that people creep on about. Hence, as you rightly said, no contact is the only way out of that mess.

Ritchie53

this is precisely what i wanted to avoid... i dont want anything from her anymore, i dont need her, i am building myself slowly from the base so i dont base my relationship on neediness, nor confuse love with attention & neediness from both sides, but i wanted to tell her, that i DID care! i did care for her and i still wish her the best... . i want to end this in a sweet note, honouring the strong friendship we seemed to have

me ignoring her completely, will allow her to think exactly that: that i did not care for her... hence my wish to contact her

empty

I know exactly what you are saying, I know exactly what you want to tell her, I want(ed) the same thing - to say that I did care and even if you felt you were in hell and I couldn't get you out, I would have sat there in hell with you and held your hand. Its how we feel, its how we felt about them. But also you have to remember, we mean nothing and I do mean absolutely nothing to these people anymore (or at least for the time being). Truthfully, if we were being beaten, mugged, gang raped and slashed in front of their very eyes they would walk on by and never think about it.

It hurts to the core I know, mine had so much empathy for acquaintances during my devaluation, would do anything for anyone apart from me. Its how they gather support once they are the victim to our persecution.

To walk away is the only thing we can do to heal, they move on in an insant - try to think of it as being in a shark infested tank, if someone throws a bunch of ropes to you of all different shapes and sizes are you going to care which rope you latch onto first, no, you will grab the nearest one, any one that can pull you to safety.

We did care and we cared for them with all of our heart. Will they ever understand that? Possibly not. Will we ever get the chance to tell them that - maybe if there is a strong reconnection down the line - the penalty for this for us, we will never be able to confront them on their behaviour if we do, we will have to do our own apology, tell them we were in the wrong and never mention the way they treated us. Thats a whole new level of hell and one that is really not worth considering.

G.W.

It is hard, I hear you and feel.  But the attempts to try have some rational thoughts understood by someone who is irrational, it too pain stakingly awful, you simply will not get thru unless you comply with their needs, their wants, theirs desires etc... . It has nothing to do with you in a way... That closure you seek, I had to find somewhere else, my attempt to get closure was met with... .

distorted truth,

lies,

smear campaign,

name calling etc... .

then a few days,

she came to me in the form a child, "you don't want to hang with me"?

I said no ended all contact but said what I had to say, none of it got thru... . I was talking to her childlike version.

Standard BPD script written by Toulou there. You would think the end of the relationship is heart breaking enough, for some of us it is just the beginning of it.

I agree 100% on the closure side and I read a piece from a member called GP44 on this board early on and his words have always stuck with me, it went a little something like this:-

'Closure from a cluster B is extraordinarily difficult to obtain, beacuse it has to come from within as our exes can not and will not help us with this.'

6 months out I am finally starting to realise what these words truly mean, you start self reflecting, you start viewing all the little things about yourself that you had but perhaps didnt think you needed to change and they can be little traits, perhaps ones that we can now change. Im still raw but my boundaries are returning and some are being formed for the very first time.

The closure we get is forming strong barriers against signs of emotional abuse and tolerance of b*****it whilst still being open and loving to people we meet.

Growing Wings, you are doing so great!  |iiii You are building yourself up from base, and that base is without her. It has to be without her to become whole again.

You can not change her mind or opinion about you, if you could you would still be together. You know you cared deeply for her, we know you cared deeply for her, she might or might not know or feel that way.

It's painfull not being able to show your integrity and honesty, not being able to show that you really loved her, and feel thats its validated and known by her.

I suppose thats how 'normal' relationship ends, by validating the good and the bad times spend togheter, validating the love once felt, validating the sincere care there once was. I hope you can find some comfort in the fact that you are able to feel that need, to feel that pain, to feel that gap.

You will get trough this urge, and you will grow even stronger wings.

Hang in there!

growing_wings,

I'm at 90 days since I cut the cord on my 3+ year r/s with my uBPD/NPD ex gf.  She lives on my block and n/c was going great until about 2 weeks ago when she approached me on the street with a completely ridiculous request.  I don't know that I handled the situaiton well, but it is what it is.  I haven't seen or heard of her since.  It is my belief she has a replacement and while I'm curious about her life now, I know that she is "toxic" and that I am feeling more balanced and healthy than ever.  There is no going back, although I have some memories and thoughts hit me from time to time.  What I'm dealing with is that I believe she'll continue to reach out to me in different forms every couple months moving forward.  Her last two approaches were to act like we were "friends" and that our r/s and b/u were healthy and amicable.  I know that wasn't the case and that I have no place in my life now and in the future for such unhealthy disfunction.  I look at it now that she'll continue to attempt to keep me in the fold for her own N supply and to have a security blanket down the street when she needs to show up at my door acting as the dysregulated 3 year old I saw numerous times during my r/s.  I guess what I'm saying is that I am working on looking at it in a very clinical way with neutral emotions.  It is not easy and at the same time I can live in the present and see it for what it is - a period of my life that I learned from and will never return to.  Good luck and stay strong for YOU!

GW,

Once the panic/anger/fear calms - we really are left with real grief.  Most of do have good memories also - those good times were one of the things that helped us stay in the relationship so long... . crying is really the way past it. 

Contact will likely put you back into the anger/fear phase.  It is like putting a band aid on a sore after you keep ripping the scab off... . it takes longer to heal that way.

Take a look at 10 False Beliefs - which ones are tugging at you and what do you need to remember about the facts associated with those False Beliefs to keep focused moving forward?

Peace,

SB

Ritchie53.

Thanks for your words, I needed to read everything you said.

THank you so much for your words guys, Madison, Dog Biscuit and Tolou, you are so nice and your words comforted me yesterday, where would i be without this site support. I didnt email her nor call her.

SB, i am stuck in number 5. I dont want a r/s with her, for me, she can go and be happy with the replacement/substitute... .  but i would like to be friends with her and support her. i want to be there for her... .

I also have a bit of an update guys: i saw her today, by accident, not planned... just about 15 mt distance from her...  small town...

i dont know if she saw me, i walked in the direction i was going without waiting or looking, ... once we were out of sight, i stopped, i wanted to run back and say hi! just hi, how are you? like you would talk to a deep friend... . , i really had to push myself to keep going so i would not do that... so i didnt.

I felt a bit sad i couldn't approach her...   she is looking well... . but she also looked distant.

GW, would it truly be possible to have a friendship with her? Can she recipr... reprici... . oh I dont know the english word for it!  :) You know the thing were she gives you back what you give and invest in her. :)

How did you feel when you saw her?

Dog biscuit, you are fun, you made me smile a lot in a good way in your posts...

yeah, i struggle with that word too, reciprocate? well, no, she wouldn't...   but i don't need her anymore, so i dont care, i would not get involved emotionally anymore, ever again, just to be a bit of a support in her dark world (as she often describes it)... . but you have a very good point, is not a friendship if there is no reciprocate (reciprocation? i struggle with the word too  :)), i guess i will come to terms to the fact that i should not pursue or think of a friendship wit her... .

How did i feel when i saw her: first a bit happy i saw her... i was surprised to see her so well, well dressed... . etc...   i did not feel any "love" nor love interest for her... i felt the same way i would feel when i see a good old friend, and i am happy to see her/him and have a quick catch up with him/her... . this is when i felt soo tempted to go back and say hi!... . (but i am glad i didnt, all your answers came to my head when i stopped to think whether i would return or not... so glad this site exists!)

argghh disorder... .   is there a friend behind this disorder? probably not

Growing wings,

I have the same feelings much if the time.  I know she is bad for me but I wish we could stay friends.  I am only 8 weeks out and at first I wanted her back, then I wanted her to stay far far away from me, now I just find that I am tired of all of it and just wish we could have a friendship of sorts.

But like you and dog biscuit discussed, she can't reciprocate that fully with me.

She could not be there for me in our relationship, she won't be there for me in a friendship either.  We were friends first so it's hard to think that way sometimes too.

I know which belief I get stuck on... . thinking I can still help her.  And I can't.  But that doesn't make it any easier sometimes.

The good parts are easy to remember, but I tend to catch myself explaining away the bad parts and/or minimizing them.  Either way it's important I remember they are there... .

allmessedup we are in a similar situation... . i agree, they cant offer friendship... so true.

What IF... . (and this is a what if, i am not saying i would go and do it), what if i can support without expecting anything in return? , i dont want anything from her... if anything just being an occassional friend that can soothe her needs every now and then? is this entering the kapman's triangle of victim/helper again?

i am just asking so i can get some ideas from the wonderful folks here...   i am just voicing my thoughts...

rationality says, move on and dont look back, my heart says: stay and help if possible. I would not seek to establish a friendship, nor i would pursue it actively...

I know where you are coming from with this but it would be a huge mistake. I had a similar thing at the end of my relationship - even when she called me all the things under the sun and shattered my heart into a million pieces and drove off without a care in the world. She had at the time accumulated a huge tax bill which I was willing to help with - my final text was along the lines of 'If and when you need help with your bill I will be there'. You would think this would show true love to someone - no, she was already a different person with her new life with her new man (the ex) and even a message like that didnt stop the smearing of me and flaunting of the new ex, haven't been this happy in ages stuff etc, etc, - instant and forever lasting no contact from me then.

So in short, dont do it, you will lose your dignity and self respect as well. They are things that have not been taken from you yet, hold on to them for dear life. Stay around and you will be triangulated unmercifully, and you will lose more than you have lost already.

Hard questions you have there gw.

My thought is this... . on my own personal situation at least.

I played my own part in her dysregulation.  It was a wicked dance and I know I hurt her as well.  I have my own issues and she brought out the worst of them.  If I was to reconsider my friendship, even if I didn't want anything from her at all, I still feel it would be ultimately hurtful for her... . at least now.

My issues I am working on, but I have a long way to go yet.  I want the hurt to stop... . but on both sides.

I am "painted black" and right now I feel that I would simply hurt her more if it tried to be friends with her.            I will still trigger her simply by being me.

This is exactly right, from my experience as well, once you are painted black you are literally the devil incarnate to these people. Anything and I mean anything that you do kindness wise will be construed as manipulative and having an ulterior motive. Any act of good will be turned to evil. There is no way out when painted black.

Ritchie53, good words on Triangulation (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0). Is true, she would probably triangulate me... . with the replacement, and spot on on dignity, i have managed to keep dignity and integrity throughout the b/u... i should hold dear in it. Also need to think about a future relationship i would have (healthier), where i would not like to put her in an awkward position by helping or being for hte pwBPD...

Allmessedup... true, i trigger her. Just a few days ago i was clear on that. she is more stable without me...

This is again an extremely true statement. We are the triggers for all the dysregulation now, that is why we are painted so utterly black. It is a horrible situation, but steering clear is the only way we can help them. Something else or someone else will become their triggers in the future, and that is when the black paint will start washing off. In some cases, it may never wash off, but by then we will be long gone down the road.

Let me say, I understand this and there was a time that I thought the same way - but let's really look at the facts of the disorder and of your actual life goals.

1.  you are a trigger and a band aid - this is not a basis for an actual equal friendship.  Does this mean you cannot get to the point where you have very strong boundaries and you won't have your own buttons pushed - no, but it will take a lot of work for yourself and you will still have to be very actively working the lessons on the staying board... . very actively work - is this really the amount of work you want to do on a version of a friendship?

2.  Do you plan to be in a relationship ever again?  If so, do you think a healthy person is going to want to have your ex this entwined in your life?  Honestly, I wouldn't no matter how well intended.

You say #5 has you stuck - let's get into that a bit more... .

5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"

BPD mood swings and past break-up / make-up cycles may have you conditioned to think that, even after a bad period, that you can return idealization stage (that you cherish) and the “dream come true” (that your partner holds dear), this is not realistic thinking.

Idealization built on “dream come true” fairytale beliefs is not the hallmark of relationship maturity and stability - it is the hallmark of a very fragile, unstable relationship.

As natural relationship realities that develop over time clash with the dream, the relationship starts breaking down. Rather than growing and strengthening over time, the relationship erodes over time.

The most realistic representation of your relationship is not what you once had – it is what has been developing over time.

I am going to ask you something hard - are you missing the idealization right now?  I know that I certainly did - and let's be really honest... . wanting to be the one to help "soothe" even as a friend - that sounds a lot like wanting to be put on that pedestal again.

good points SB all of them good.

I dont miss the idealization stage, i think i am doing pretty well myself (much better actually, as i have friends of all sorts again)... but i miss her friendship, the sitting down for hours talking about anything and everything... .   i miss the frienship stage prior to the relationship... the latter was a mix of chaos and enmeshment, it retrospective, it was not healthy at all, but the friendship was fun, great, etc...

maybe it was all mirroring? i have a hard time thinking there was no friendship at all...

when we were friends, she was better, much more centered and calmed... she was not depressed... etc...  

i will have to let that thought/idea go...   that i had a exceptional friend in her.

Hi all, yes this accusation of stalking is an interesting one. I was so shocked at being dumped so suddenly after nursing her back from the brink after her suicide attempt I could not fathom what had happened. So yes I tried to appeal to her, wrote poetry, sent flowers, rationalised in emails what had gone wrong and how she seemed to have misunderstood my motives. Then after discovering the BPD issues and connecting the dots I rushed round to share this new found knowledge and insight. In my niaivity I imagined she would be receptive, in fact she called the police! and i was accused of giving her ' unwanted attention' after she put me through hell with her suicide attempt just a few weeks before; but with hindsight I now think that she knows she is BPD and tries to hide it rather than deal with it. I subsequently discovered that there had been a string of guys painted black and rejected before me, some of which had had breakdowns like me. What I find hardest is if she knows she is BPD, continues to draw in and damage men for her own entertainment, then she is in fact knowingly callous! I don't want to believe this but the evidence is clear, thats what hurts the most that I was possible duped! and all the things she said were hollow as she knew how it would end. Its so confusing that sucha seemingly lovely women could be so manipulative and dress her BPD up as being the victim of love in the past.

Calm Waters - I could have written exactly what you wrote, so similar.

Over-analysing my relationship, there were so many red flags and events that happened are just an amalgamation of many peoples thoughts and experiences on these boards.

Just before my discard, when the real craziness happened, she would lash out, hitting me, once attempting to phone the police when she hit me in the face and hurt her hand... . she locked herself in a room crying that her hand was broken and I attempted to console her by telling her I could not leave until I saw her hand and got medical help - she said that if I didnt leave she was calling the police, an absolute ridicluous situation to be in, bearing in mind this is at 2am in the morning when I had work at 9am and had already gone to bed at 10.30 only to be woken up with arguements at 12am.

Possibly duped? - exactly how I feel - I remember a red flag clear as day in the month February (14 months into relationship) - she went on roaccutane for spots (which can apparently cause suicidal thoughts etc for spots she didnt have?) and kept telling me look out come September when I am off these tablets and a strong minded woman again? - she stopped them aroudn June but September was the big blowout - how right she was, and makes me wonder if previous relationships lasted around that period and she knew exactly the script that would play out... .

I miss the friendship too gw... . so so much.  The talking and laughing for hours.  She was my very best friend.  We had so much fun!

But while I too am doing fairly well... . (lots of friends now and such) I do think at least part of that friendship fell into that idealization stage.  If I look back on it, she wanted to listen and talk with me for hours. She understood me, she didn't judge me etc.

Those were all thing I was seriously wanting and that attention is what directly lead to our relationship progressing to more than friends.

By the end of the relationship however, she had no interest in talking for hours unless it was about her.  She could not understand how I felt about anything. More and more often our conversations revolved around nothing at all.

It is so sad... . so incredibly sad. And I very much wish it could be different but it can't... .

allmessedup... your experience could easily describe mine... . it is true... .

same happened to me, at the end, we would only talk about her, or silence... . the cold silence treatment interrupted by devaluation phases and short attempts of "i will make up for what i have done to you" type behavior where she would attempt to show she cared (and i say attempt, because now that i think about those moments, it was such a "forced" attempt empty of real feelings, it almost sounds ridiculous how she "tried" to win me back... sadly, took me sometime to realize of this and stop this cycle)

i guess the last behavior is the real one...

although i get the idealized friendship at the beginning, where i could do no wrong and i was an inch from perfect in her eyes, then the friendship grew to a mutually challenging situation where we would both hear each other points to then me agreeing to most of what she said, i couldnt dare to disagree, i knew i would have been discarded... .

typing this made me realize of that... thank you! so yes, i seem to be missing the idealized part of hte friendship... idealization is powerful drug

So miss her - let yourself cry it out.  It is grief, it is sad and once the path has been gone down to change a friend into a lover, one of the risks is that of losing a friend.  It really is a fact and if the relationship ends, most of the time a friendship takes a long break.  IF both parties are emotionally mature a version of a friendship can come around again - but the relationship and friendship as you knew it is truly gone... . so, cry and feel sad until you don't.  No magic pill.   


BPD is an attachment disorder.  Once a more intimate relationship is established, you are the trigger - the idea of you (real or perceived) abandoning or enmeshing - it is the trigger of the behavior you no longer wanted.

The kindest thing you can do for you both is to heal yourself.  I know it hurts, it is deeply sad - we are hit at our core level.

Peace,

SB

I highlighted this as it is important in almost every singe person on the leaving board.  The ones who I have seen heal and move forward are the ones who really get this and work on it.  It is a loneliness (hole) in US that the pwBPD revealed - it is this that we must grieve.  Whether it is loneliness, a family, unresolved grief, feeling not enough - no matter the hole - it must be healed by US - not the presence of another  :light:

It was there before our pwBPD came in and it is amplified now.

Yes SB... this is very true. I relate above to using "band aids"... . the pwBPD was a band aid for me , an easy exit at a time where i should have stood my ground more firmly... .

recognising this, grieving it, and over coming it is critical... . thanks for post