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I have been in a pretty turbulent on and off again BPD young woman for a year and a half. In that time, we have never slept together. I'm not in it for the sex, so it didn't bother me... But I found out that during our "breaks" she would be very promiscuous with many men... It killed me. I get rejected time and time again. I posted the details in the Intro section as well, but it  was suggested I post in here too. Anyway, she has no problem being sexual, just does with me. She says that sex is just sex to her, that I'm very emotional and she's not ready for that, that she's scared that once I "get it" I won't love her anymore... And the latest was that she wants to, but won't because I'm leaving her... . Also says that her and I have something that she will never have with anyone else. I'm the guy she brings home to mom and dad. She says she loves me because I respect her and treat her right.

In a "break" and knowing she was seeing other men, I begged for her back,

And she said no. So in a very rash decision, I packed up and moved 1500 miles. She didn't seem to care at all, until it finally sank in I was really going. We then spent a lot of time together, went through a whole push pull cycle in a week, and wound up leaving on good terms... With plans to see each other in June. Since getting here though, I only get one word texts from her, and she doesn't say I love you or I miss you back anymore. I'm not sure what to do. I know she's with other guys, and it kills me. I'm doing my best to just ride it out until june, but it's been rough. Any opinions or suggestions would be an amazing help. Thanks

Well, sometimes BPDs have sexual addiction.  My dBPDh has drug and sex addiction.  It is common for sex addicts to be unable to have sex when it is emotionally close, so that sounds like what she is saying.  It is called sexual anorexia.  Might want to look into it.  Not saying that is what it is, just that this is something I hear a lot of in my support groups for spouses of SAs and therapy groups.  My dBPDh was sexually anorexic most of our marriage but he wasn't having sex with anyone.  That started after he had been addicted to drugs, he just changed addictions after drug rehab.  Apparently because he didn't get help for his personality disorder and didn't stay with recovery work.  The therapist that we are staring with that treats BPD, said that she hears of the sexual impulsivity a lot for BPDs.

Thanks, I've never heard of that before. I looked that up and it seems to fit perfectly. I know I have rejection issues myself, and some of what I read made me feel a lot better about myself. To just not be wanted or felt loved by the one person you would do anything for is hard. How do I approach her with that? Do I say anything or just continue to let this happen? I guess I'm becoming an enabler, but being so far away for an indefinite amount of time is hard. Do I still just try to talk to her daily? This isn't about the sexual anorexia now, just trying to maintain some semblance of a relationship or at least being in each other's lives until we get to see each other again.

Well Strength I'll respond the best I can with a subject that is very difficult to understand and situationally different for everyone.

I feel for you  but I can honestly say I can’t truly understand all this, “I'm not in it for the sex, so it didn't bother me... ” but now it seems to. Is that because you thought she was platonic by nature so that was OK with you until you found out she wasn’t?

I speak with a lot of different people with BPD on line and ask a lot of questions apart from my own experience with it in my relationship. I’ve also experienced a similar situation with marital infidelity and how that affected my wife and myself.

I’ll give you some words from a woman I conversed with on this same subject of infidelity and feelings about it. Perhaps that will help you understand better that a lot of females have (not an insatiable need for sex, a lot don’t value it, but an insatiable need for the personal ATTENTION and perceived feeling of admiration, false or not, that sexual contact gives to them.)

“To me I always think I'm in love. But really I don't know what that means. So I can " love" more than one person at once because I don't allow myself to attach to anyone though I can manipulate anyone to think that... . For me I would get bored and if I thought I wasn't getting the right love and affection I felt unloved so it would make me become hateful and start flirting with other men... . It was like you were doing me wrong. How dare you basically. Me going to someone else for affection and sex was nothing to me. I didn't feel bad or remorseful. I felt like my boyfriend wasn't giving me what I needed.

Now love for a man is so different. When I fall in love, I fall hard and fast. I am so eager for the love attention and affection I never got and deserve, that any form of any of those three are mistaken for real love... .

I do think I was truly in love with my youngest sons father. He was the first man I had not cheated on. Until the loss of affection and attention happened. As soon as I feel wronged , it is like shutting of a switch inside me. I can block feelings... . I put up walls and things are never the same. I tried to fix things with us. Like couples counseling and always telling him what I needed from him as a man... . But he didn't change... . So either did I.

So there are my feelings on love. Not really sure I am capable of truly loving a man for i barely able to love myself .”

It seems to me that your relationship was built on a platonic platform so she didn’t have that pressure of sex with you, although needed the attention from somewhere that she missed that way in your relationship. When my wife was having a year-long affair she explained her “lack if feelings” or shutting off the switch on me in this way.

“I knew you didn’t love me the way you used to and I needed that. I didn’t care any longer about you in a sexual or intimate way. It was as though we were really good friends or room mates. You’ve always been my rock, my one place of safety, why would I leave you? You’ve always been there for me, been a good provider and good company but I just didn’t care about you anymore. You can love someone but not be in love with them.”

If you can make sense out of that type of thinking perhaps you can begin to make sense out of your situation.

I wish you the best of luck with it but tread carefully accusing her of any wrong doing or blame. She won’t perceive her needs being filled as having anything wrong about it. Making her feel guilty will probably end up with a backlash at you. After all you were content with a platonic relationship – right?

Sounds harsh, crazy and cruel to a point but it’s the reality of some of their thinking.

I agree with Salwart, in that at it's heart it is an attachment disorder.  There is a good book called Intimacy Anorexia by Doug Weiss, a lot of it was like reading my life.  He puts a religious spin on working through things but my dBPDh and I were doing the emotional exercises for a while.  Sadly, there isn't much you can do unless she wants to change. 

My dBPDh has done some work on his intimacy and attachment issues but we need DBT to get through to a closer level.  We are going to start a DBT program for couples on Monday.  my dBPDh really wants to work this out and be close, the connection is the motivating thing for him.  I am only now beginning to understand how much staying connected to me and the kids means to his stability. 

Thank you both for your in depth replies, it really means a lot. Stalwart, I guess I should clarify. When I said I wasn't in it for the sex, I meat that when I started dating her, my motive was to "wham bam and thank you ma'am" or "hit it and quit it". I've told her how I'm in this for the long run. And that nothing she could do would change that. I do think that physical intimacy is important in a romantic relstionship, however I don't think it should be an obligation or something you "have" to do. Both partners should WANT to be with each other. When we first started dating she made a comment about how much she appreciated me respecting her, and things would happen when she was ready. What killed me was finding out that she was actually sleeping with numerous men the whole time. While I thought I was doing the right thing, she was just getting the attention that I wanted too elsewhere. Furthermore, she is extremely jealous... And I caught myself feeling some resentment towards her, and that's not ok. Let me explain. The other night, she was going through my phone, and found a picture of me at a group dinner that had a girl next to me at a table. She became so upset, she deleted the picture and threw my phone across the bar. So while I desperately try to make sure I don't even get into situations that might trigger something, she is out having sex with men that don't care about her in the least. It's awful. I'm realizing I can't fix it and that she needs to want to change for herself, but it's still difficult. From 1500 miles away my stomach still flips everytime i know she's with a guy, or off of work, etc. I know there are a lot of double standards, and maybe I'm setting myself up for failure- but I've told her and her family numerous times. I love her, I'm doing my best to learn to support her the best way I know how, and that I'm not going anywhere. This kind of reletionship isn't for the feint of heart, but I am strong. I know she is too. I am holding in I the hope that her therapy coming up in may, and me seeing her in June, we can give this a real shot. Am I out of line with any of that?

I will also see if I can find that book. Even after just looking at a few websites it seems that that's exactly the situation. Thanks again for your time!

Just a quick update for you guys: in a terrible moment of weakness I sent a Long winded heartfelt text  message to her. She ignored it, then the next night replied with exactly what you said-  a nice backlash. It wasn't good.  I asked if I should cancel my flight home, but she ask she still wanted to see me. Told her I was excited for that and I just never got any kind of response. I think making a fool out of myself in the worst way will actually improve how I handle things like this in the future. I have deleted all of her contact information, and have it written down and put away. I am going to try nc for at least a couple weeks, and allow us both room to grow and get therapy. While I know she's still out with others, there is nothing I can do to change that. It needs to come from her. I will be using this time to read all I can about this and try to work I myself. Maybe in late June a reconciliation will be possible.

Hi Strength27,

while she may suffer from attachment problems it is worth keeping in mind that you only control your side. Which can be infinitely frustrating... .

What you can work on however is healthy attachment behavior

- not letting her play drama queen and get away with it

- validating communicatino (validation connects).

It is also important to work and maintain important anchors outside your relationship. This push-pull can wreck havoc with your own ability to attach in healthy matters. Maintaining a healthy balance in your life is absolutely key.

Hey Strength:

I really am sorry how this has turned around. They say things happen for the best (I've never quite figured out who 'they' are or what they always mean by the best, but?). I hope you spend the time really considering your role in her life and what you may be missing out in yours as well pusuiting such a difficult path. Sometimes our committments to other family members (and their support trying to keep us engaged) is a real determining factor in our decisions. Remember her family has spent their life dealing with the problems and would also for most parts be glad if someone could actually take some of it a way from their responsibility and daily lives. Not a nice thing to say but it's also been my experience. Again, is that about you?

I don't mean to sound cynical in as much as it should all be about you, it never should and yes we all have to consider others in our lives, but from what you've said about her life you are probably doing well taking some time away to take a long distant look and give yourself time.

Best of luck with it my friend.

Thanks, I don't think you're being cynical... More of a realist haha! I am just trying to find my inner peace with all of this. I've recently gotten a dream job that I've been focused on and that's been keeping me busy. In an interesting turn of events, she called me 2 nights ago... And we talked for 2 hours. Again, pretty much everything I've wanted to hear for the first almost 2 years of knowing her. She mentioned an ex that she has been hanging out with, and told me how he was trying to get back with her, and how she isn't interested at all I him. I'm not sure what the point if bringing that up was, especially since I know that they are (or at least were) sleeping together. Regardless, I have just kept my distance. The heart wants what it wants, and you are right... I can only control my side of things. I choose to live my life and let her live hers as well... I'll always love her, and it will be a blessing if our plans for June play out, but it's also time to focus on my own well being. That being said, I've always finally come to terms with the fact that I can't take care if her or make her better. That's a long difficult path she needs to walk on her own. If it plays out that I'm there at the end of that path, fantastic. If not, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Just going to live it up now, and see what happens during that weekend in June.

 |iiii

An update to the update. Probably for my own benefit. This morning, I got a message from her... Telling me about her first day of therapy and how hard it was and wishing I could be there. Of course I took the bait and sent a nice message back. Which led to a phone call. Which led to her becoming angry at me and "not in the mood to talk to me." Haven't heard from her since. It's almost like these cycles are getting closer and closer together and moving faster and faster. Still doing my best to just love her from afar, be supportive, and do what's best for me. All of that is extremely hard right now. Feelings of resentment are creeping in. I am her rock. The shoulder. The one she brought home to mom and dad. The one that respected her and did things the right way. Turns out it was all a sham. I am constantly just being manipulated, and made to feel like an inadequate piece of garbage- even after all of the things I do and probably will continue to do for her... All while order guys take advantage of her. It's so hard to sit back and let that happen. Everytime I get the feeling she's with another guy I feel rejected, unwanted, unloved. Why not me? Just the feelings I'm having today. Trying to begin nc again, it's just so hard

Strength27,

you said,


Are you able to accept that this can be the relationship dynamic for however long? That's what it takes to stay. And the only hope you can have for the situation is in what you learn, how you change. If you can learn enough about her condition to be able to fully accept her as she is, and in learning about her condition also learn how to see that what she says is more about how she feels about herself so you don't take things so personally (thus feeling like crap and worthless) you'll definitely be in a better place to go the distance with her.

What is your hope for going NC again?

I've done my best to accept it for a year and a half now. That's a great point about me learning  to not take it personally. It's more her actions than the words that sting the most. My hope for nc is that absence will make her heart grow fonder... It will also give her time to go through some therapy without me being a distraction, and if will be proof to me she's in therapy for the right reasons. It will also give me some time to work on myself. Thoughts of her affect my entire day. It's almost consuming... Never experienced emotion to this extent before. I am hoping that with some time I will be able to accept her for her, and seeing her again in June will just be a drama free, incredible weekend. Maybe I'm looking at  it as a chance to start fresh with her.

Well then, definitely read everything you can on the subject, and learn the tools for communication and self-care. Often when we're in a relationship that's so intense we can forget to take care of ourselves because we're focusing so hard on trying to meet the other person's needs.

Just to the right in the sidebar is a lot of great info about how we as the non can work on ourselves (the only one we can truly control) in the interest of a better relationship with our loved one with BPD. Start there and go through every step of it would be my suggestion. :)

Thanks so much. I will do that. My sincere hope is that she'll want the se... Time will tell.

Exactly, time will tell. But the work you're doing will help you in relationships for the rest of your life.

|iiii

It sounds very unusual, Strength, because generally pwBPD are very passionate about intimate relations. Their push-and-pull always seems to include sex when they are pulling a partner in. Hence, I wonder whether this is not a primary relationship for her, whether she is using this r/s as an escape or refuge in-between her sexual exploits with men who wind up taking advantage of her. In other words, she is not taking a break from your r/s by pursuing other men; she comes back to you when she is taking a break from pursuing romantic intimacy. She does sound possessive of you, but she seems to have decided that you are her rock and there's to be no sex on the rock. Sex for her is necessarily unstable and chaotic. And usually if a sexual attraction is going to ignite between two adults, it happens sooner rather than later. There's a reason for the "four-date rule" (some would say three dates). After that, the probability of sparking something goes down. What kind of future does this situation hold for you? Now that you perceive the manipulation and incapacity for real intimacy she offers, does it make you want to put it behind you? I hope that by June you will feel kind of disgusted with this person and prefer someone who represents possibilities rather than a dead-end.

On a personal note, when I was in my twenties I just could not feel turned on by men who were really interested in a committed relationship with me. I felt like a gay person trying to be straight when I would go out on a date with an ardent suitor who couldn't wait to go steady with me and probably marry me. I could only feel turned on by men who were in some way dangerous to me (just passing through, notorious playboys, Peter Pans, etc.). Sometimes I tried to be friends with a man who was truly interested in me, but I did not string him along the way that this young lady seems to be doing with you. I needed to cry on a man's shoulder at times (my girlfriends' shoulders would get all soggy), and sometimes I wanted to have an escort for a social function, or just be seen with a nice guy for a change. Maybe it wasn't the best thing for these guys, but I didn't lead them on. What I'm getting at with regard to your situation is that none of these non-sexual "escape"-type relationships could ever become sexual for me. Hence, I would wish for you to spend this time figuring out why you became so "into" this person. What need of yours did she meet by rejecting you sexually or by postponing intimacy indefinitely?

Hey there, thanks for your reply. That's a very good albeit very depressing point. She has given me numerous reasons as to why she's withheld it- lately the reasons have been that "with me, it wouldn't be just sex," "I'm leaving her," and "once I got it I might not want her anymore." I guess I just chose to believe those. I thought that if I stuck through it, she would see that I wasn't going anywhere, and that eventually when it did happen, it would actually mean something. While she constantly lies about her sexual exploits, eventually she does tell me about the guys she's been with. I do feel disgusted, but feelings of rejection, self doubt and unfortunately enough self hate always shine through the disgust. I am aware I deserve better, and I'm also aware that other girls have been interested in me that I have blatantly turned down, potentially

Preventing the possibility of finding someone that would make me happy.

I am holding on to the notion that if I am patient enough, she will make it through therapy, I'll grow as a person and finally be happy on my own, and then maybe eventually we will be ready for each other. As for being the primary relationship... While I'm probably not now being so far away, I definitely think I was when I was back home. Holiday dinners, meeting her family numerous times, the hours of conversation, and being together all the time. Events that would take all day or long day trips to far away places. Maybe I'm just lying to myself, but she made me feel like I was it.

There is one piece of the story I left out-

Last summer, I thought I had finally moved on... I cut her out of my life and dated another girl briefly. She was devastated. Begged for me back, promised to change her life and go to therapy, etc etc. she came over and tried to have sex with me, and for that one moment I time, I was just so prideful that I denied her. Sometimes I wonder if that has anything to do with her being so reluctant to sleeping with me.

To be completely honest, as of now our plan was to go to an all weekend music festival, and I'm really hoping it happens then. If not, you are probably right, and it will probably never happen.

I have no doubt in my mind that Strength is the rock she tries to cling to. Being a rock isn't an easy place to be when your the one that's left out of all the intimicy because she seeks it in other places. My wife didn't leave with the person she had affair with, even though that was her original intent because she realized he wasn't what she needed. She couldn't leave her "rock". That doesn't mean that for a year and half of her having an affair that rock wasn't just totally ignored, abused and kicked around. I was. Like she said later in a twisted way of thinking: You can love someone and not be in love with them at the time?

Being a rock isn't as strong and stable as it might appear to be. Kick a rock enough and it's bound to roll down the closest hill as well.

I'm sure Strength represents a rock to his SO and probably if they didn't live in a long-deistance situation he may have a chance of gaining her total trust and interest if he was really good at doing that and he might have a chance at a really good relationship if he learned enough about himself and her to manage that. But in a long distance relationship he just can't fill that constant need for admiration and acceptance that sex probably offers to his SO so she seeks where she can find it.

I've seen so many other people say that BPD woman are just sexually needy and it's been my experience that it really isn't about the sex and most actually don't really overly enjoy sex. It seems to me that many USE sex as a tool to fill a need, not a sexual need but the need for attention and affirmation and mistake sex for love and admiration when in most cases with casual men sex is probably more about sex than it is an emotional committment and sentiment.

I do wish Strength luck in June when he visits her and I hope he goes forward to better understand the situation and makes really good decisions for both of them.

Thanks. The battle now is staying strong, learning as much as I can, not taking anything personally, and improving the things I can actually control. It hard not calling or texting her, and I've been working on a letter for a few days... I'm not sure if I'll actually send it or not- it's just a cheesy light hearted I miss you sort of thing, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. I need to focus on myself, and just be happy if she tries to initiate any contact

LOL! I really like that one.

Hello again,

I don't want to beat a dead horse here- I need to Pick a route and stick to it. I just wanted some opinions... In my reading, I've learned that abandonment issues are very difficult for BPDs to handle. Obviously, me going so far away will play a part in that. While I've already explained my reasoning for starting Nc, do you guys think it would be a good idea to send a short message every day? Just like an "I miss you" text or something. While I realize I won't get a response, it may lay some ground work for June. Any thoughts? Thanks 

Does she show any interest in getting therapy for herself?

Actually yes she does. She sent me a message the other day about we first day of therapy, and then one today just wishing me a good day

Well THAT'S positive!

I suppose! Haha I replied I her and as expected I haven't heard back.

It's been pretty tough lately. I haven't heard from her. Still in that sad, pathetic, lonely stage I guess. I have glimmers of feeling good and likely old self, and that's when I'm busy with work or working out. Any time I have down time though, my mind wanders. I need to do better at that. I have been writing her every day, but I haven't sent anything. I'm not sure it's a good idea or not.

That's a tough place to be for sure. 

Strength I'm so sorry to say this and I am trying to be supportive but a lot of people with this don't have the ability to focus too far out of their immediate needs and surroundings. Being away is a big thing to you, you will miss her, think about her, worry about her, hope for her. That doesn't necessarily mean that's the way she thinks and how her mindset works. The fact is so many are so focused on their immediate needs and filling them that you could be around the corner and she may only think about what's immediately in her availability.

I know it's cruel to say but you might want to read more on some of their abilities to just "turn off the switch". Google it combined with borderline personality disorder and do some reading. It's not good reading but it doesn't necessarily apply to all of them and it won't.

Watch closely and percieve even more closely what you think but keep on learning - most of all though guard your heart and hopes. You're not in a relationship with a 'normal' person. You're getting into a relationship with someone who is subject to and directed by a mental illness that can be debilitating for them and for you.

Thanks. I appreciate any information I can get my hands on- no need to apologize for anything! She reached out and texted me today and she was upset I hadn't been talking to her. Of course I replied and she disappeared again.

So I've done some reading... And I have a question. I regards to "flipping the switch... . " When she gives me nothing,  reciprocate the nothing. She notices this within a week or so... And attempts to contact me, and then makes me feel bad and questions my feelings for her. When I cave, and communicate with her, it's always the same. Short worded, better things to do than talk to me attitude, followed by another few days of ignoring me. It's a never ending cycle. The typical I hate you don't leave me Wayne thinking I suppose. What's the best way to handle this? I always remain calm and cool and collected, and remind her that I love her. Very rarely does she say it back. Am I doing the correct things?

i honestly have no real ideas about this, but i'm wondering if you can take a few deep breaths, sit back and think about the bigger picture of it all and see what your gut says about it. Because you don't need to be badgered and made to feel bad, and you can have boundaries around how she talks to you.

Yeah, I'm just confused. As cliche as it sounds, I wish I could think with my head and not my heart. From a logical standpoint, it doesn't make any sense to want to be with a woman like her. But when it comes to love, logic goes out the window.  I did wind up sending that letter, and I did try contacting her. I am sure she hasn't seen the letter yet, but when we do talk, it's obvious she's not invested to the point I am. I realize mentally I'm very weak, but I'm going to attempt nc again. If only for a week or so. I know that seems insignificant, but for me that's huge. It seems to make all the difference

An update. I gues she received the letter. I got a message early yestsrday that said "I'll call you tonight or maybe tomorrow." Well she called last night, and I wasn't able to get to my phone. I tried calling her back this morning, and of course I got the inevitable don't bother calling me, have a good week, etc. do I try to call anyway as play this game or just wait it out until the next time she contacts me? I know I said I was doing nc, and I was- it's just that I didn't expect to hear anything back from her. I am due to visit in just over a month now, and I don't even know if she wants me to come or not.

Are you actually enjoying this relationship? Do you see this cat and mouse game as something you can deal with for your future?

As much as it doesn't make sense- I do. I don't enjoy not trusting her. I don't enjoy how much more I put into this than she does. I don't enjoy the countless nights of sleep I've lost thinking about her with other men, or putting me on the back burner. All that being said, that's what I signed up for. No one deserves to be treated like that. She's in therapy now, and I am hoping things will improve. We still text every few days, and talk on the phone every now and then. Every time I try to talk to her less, she breaks the silence. I have learned not go get worked up any more, and I've been doing a lot better coping with all of this. The latest is that we ironed out some more details about my visit, and for now, she seems happy about it. I'm not dumb, I know there isn't any light at the end of the tunnel, I'm just trying to string together more good days in a row than bad. I didn't choose to love her, it just happened.

Well, that's the answer then isn't it? When we love someone enough to try to ride out the storm and change our responses enough to spend more time in the quiet eye of the storm, we do. I've been married for nearly 38 years now to my uBPDh. When it was more "storm" than "eye" I stepped out a few months ago, and that's caused him to go to counseling. So we'll see how the changes go! But good for you being willing to learn new skills yourself for how to relate in a more effective way with her.

What are your favorite new skills so far?

Well I'm not sure if I'd call it a skill, or say it's my favorite, but I've developed the ability to not take things personally. I've also started to accept her for who she is. It's not my job to change her, or even help her. That's entirely up to her. I've also come to the terms that if she's talking, she's most likely lying. I've stopped trying to question her and get the real "truth," as I'll never get it anyway. She knows I love her, she knows I'll do anything I can to support her and be there for her. At this point, there's just nothing else I can do except let things play out. If she decides to put in the effort, fantastic. If not, then as they say, "that's the way the cookie crumbles."

Hey Strength: I thought I'd drop you one more line on this. It's a bit long but it's worth the read.

In a continuous search for learning and understanding I converse with a lot of people, primarily women that have BPD. It's difficult sometimes to find people that can articulate their feelings well and once in a while you hit the ticket.

The problem is in dealing with most issues of someone with BPD we try to rationalize a situation or their actions using our structure of logic- 'sane' logic. We forget that in most cases that just isn't possible because they are not dealing with any resemblance to a sane logic in the way they think or function. We react to past experiences, our egos and feelings and mirror them into that logic and it's impossible to come to even remotely correct analysis of their thinking. As much as we think we're on the right line of thought, typically we haven't even entered the right ball park from the beginning but we keep playing out the innings in our mind.

Here's what one person says about this detachment issue from her perspective and I think it holds true to a lot of people with this infliction. It's interesting and for someone who hasn't considered this before it's an A HuH moment to identify with it. Pour a coffee and sit down for a minute because it's long and involved but it's worth ever minute to read it all thoroughly if you want to try and better understand that this may well be the same situation you're facing.

“Borderlines have problems with object constancy in people -- they read each action of people in their lives as if there were no prior context; they don't have a sense of continuity and consistency about people and things in their lives. They have a hard time experiencing an absent loved one as a loving presence in their minds. They also have difficulty seeing all of the actions taken by a person over a period of time as part of an integrated whole, and tend instead to analyze individual actions in an attempt to divine their individual meanings. People are defined by how they last interacted with the borderline.”

Object Constancy - They may have problems with object constancy. When a person leaves (even temporarily), they may have a problem recreating or remembering feelings of love that were present between themselves and the other. Often, BPD  patients want to keep something belonging to the loved one around during separations.

Out of sight, out of mind: For me, I don’t believe people hold me in their memories. If I’m not around, or I am not in some form of contact/communication with them, I don’t exist in their world. I have an extraordinarily hard time holding onto the thought that people remember me, hold me dear or care for me when I am not in their physical presence. Out of sight, no longer connected. I'm sure to most people this is not how they perceive relationships (be it friendship, dating, familial). I think it should be a consistent progression of emotions and experiences that build together to form a deep bond. I also have a hard time holding onto the strong emotions I feel for those I care about, and when I do manage to I also manage to convince myself that I am the only one that feels this way and no one else could possibly share my depth of emotion though I desperately hope they do. This creates a feeling of panic and loss for something that may actually be there and I need to find a way to reaffirm these feelings in myself and others every time I am back in contact with them. It’s a maddening cycle of doubt, loss, connection and disconnection.

Holding Time:  I have a hard time holding together one event after the other. I remember events just fine, but holding onto the sentiment of events in series that something is bound. It doesn't always feel to me that everything is connected. One thing may happen after another, but it does not seem like things hold together in essence after the former has passed. Like if I'm gone too long, that I was there before will cease to be relevant. There is no continuum of events. Everything is like a single instance in time and I have to completely reestablish how I am connected to the event, the environment, the people every time.  It’s very difficult for me to remember that everything is NOT a series of individual events. They ARE a continuum. The attachment of one event bleeds into the sentiment of the next giving life to yet another. That continuum is what binds memories, sentiment, and relationships. Yes? At least that is what I imagine it should be. I imagine so, I don’t feel it.

I often have terrible anxiety when people leave. There’s a desperate need to understand how others feel about me, hold me to them, our connection, because I can’t hold onto this concept myself. On the other hand, when people do leave, abandon me, never to return, after a while it’s as if they were never in my life. I have memories of experiences with people, but no emotional connection to the memories. It’s like I’m remembering a story someone else told me. Sometimes this happens immediately, other times it takes weeks of panic at the loss before I break from the emotional attachment I’ve been able to build. Lately though, I notice this happening more and more quickly, with less time spent obsessing over every instance that lead to the break.

My dissociation helps me here because after the initial fear and anxiety, my emotions deaden. I become numb to the experiences I have just been through. I feel detached from my own body and it becomes logical that others wouldn’t be attached to me when I am not even attached to myself.

How attached are things, moments in time, events, really? How does it feel to be so strongly bound by sentiment that you feel indefinitely connected by a series of things? I simply don’t know.


Like I said Strength long but worth every bit of the read. What do you think? Is it possible that your friend thniks in this same way? I only ask because if you think so there are certainly ways you can help out the situation when you can understand it better.

Hope it helps.

Woah. To be honest, I see a lot of myself in all of that. Treating relationships as a series of isolated incidents, object consistency... Even out of sight out of mind. I know that she thinks like this for sure, but the more I read, the more I think I may have the same thing. I don't mean any disrespect and this is obviously not something to trivialize... But all of this seems way too familiar.

But back to be main issue, that does help paint a clearer picture of the situation. Most if not all of it seems to fit to a t, and helps me understand better. Thank you so much for taking the time to write all of that. I really appreciate it.

i'd call that a skill, not taking things personally. It's quite a change of mindset for many of us.

Have you learned any of the communication skills like SET, or validation? If so how have those gone?

No hint of disrespect taken my friend at all.

I found this so amazing because it is so far from any personal or emotional experience I've ever felt. It is totally opposite to my way of thinking and I also saw so much of this in my own wife's actions that it was a revelation to read, if not a little freightening as well. I can't imagine being challenged in that way and even trying to develop or maintain a relationship. I marvel at the abilities some people do have to cope under such challenged conditions and I'm starting to develop a respect for what some of these people have lived in and still do just to make to end of a day sometimes. So many of them are so strong and it's no wonder they're in such need.

You find it a revelation because it reminds you or yourself. Amazing how differently we all think and to consider that there would ever be easy answers to anything of it becomes so much more clear all the time.

For now I find encouragement and hope going farther in learning because everyday I seem to find out something that's just so relevant and of so much 'need' to know.

Hoping for the best in your situation Strength and stay in touch.

People care.

So well said, Stalwart.

It's absolutely a relief knowing that there are others who are experiencing the exact same things. I wouldn't wish it I anyone, but it's nice knowing I'm not alone. That really was a great eye opening read. I still have good days and bad, but the good days while the good days are stringing together nicely, the bad days are just terrible haha. I have been doing very well with validating some in my opinion irrational statements and logic, although it is an extremely challenging thing to do for me. To sit there and tell her I understand why she feels that 2 plus 2 is 5 is just... . Ugh. It does usually dissipate the situation nicely though. I still need to practice SET.

I lost it last night- I let things build up and the I explode. As shallow as it sounds (I almost feel guilty even though I shouldn't) I called her and told her how upset I was about the la of physical intimacy again. I know it bothers her, but being constantly rejected by someone who dads she "loves" you is just so difficult. I think I struggle with this issue so much because she's found that satisfaction with others. I would not care one bit if she just didn't do that. But being constantly hounded I for even saying hello to another woman when we don't even have a physical relationship just isn't fair and doesn't make sense to me. I just want to desperately understand.

The things that go through my head and that she's actually said to me:

I'm not attracted to you like that, I'm attracted to you as a person and I love you though and I want to date you.

It would just mean too much and I'm not ready for that kind if emotion.

I need to get better before I have a relationship with anyone.

I've tried to rationalize these things, and I just can't no matter how hard I try. I realize that rationalizing her ways of thinking is a very difficult if not impossible task, but it's in my nature and I can't help it. Anytime I bring it up to her, she tells me to drop it and that we've been over it a hundred times (we havent, she just avoids it).

To me, being physically intimate is a part of a healthy relationship. To not be wanted in that way by your "partner" is by far the worst feeling. I struggle every day. I have told her that if she's not attracted to me in that way to just let me go, and she refuses... Giving me the whole I love and care about you and would be really upset if you moved on speech. It's like she's using the lack of sex to keep me interested... Maybe she fears that once it happens I'll stop loving her. I don't know.

These "explosions" can be productive. The first thing that came to your mind is pretty definitive. It makes no sense on her part to want to date a person she doesn't feel attracted to "like that" except to use him for certain qualities or resources he has. It leads to an attitude of contempt because, no matter how much she uses you, she is still unhappy in love (probably suffering on account of the last lover who abandoned her). When you show signs of abandoning her like the others, she may look on you with more respect, but don't be fooled by it.

Validation isn't about telling her you "understand why she thinks 2 + 2 = 5" it's about telling her that you understand she feels that way. It's a big difference. Validation is more about letting her have her feelings and not feel rejected for her feelings. You needn't feel like you're lying just to make her happy! Here's a basic slide presentation about validation that's quite helpful. i had that same reaction to validation when i first read about it--"wait! you're telling me i have to agree with something i don't?" But no.

Validation and BPD (https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/validation_slides.pdf)

And here's a more in-depth workshop on Validation: TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner (or the BPD person in your life)  (https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating;all)